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Michelle Malkin: When Pundits Attack

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Wacky Michelle, my pet name for her, calls the liberals ‘unhinged’ and even wrote a eponymous book about it. Anyone left of right suffers from either PEST (Post Election Selection Trauma) or BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) – you gotta love these cute acronyms.

But let’s take a look at Myriam-Webster’s definition of unhinged:

Main Entry: un•hinge
Pronunciation: -‘hinj
Function: transitive verb

1 : to remove (as a door) from the hinges
2 : to make unstable : UNSETTLE, DISRUPT [unhinge the balance of world peace] [pressure that would unhinge a less experienced person]

Unsettle, disrupt, unhinge the balance of world peace. I’m wondering if publishing the names, numbers and other identifying information of SAW (Students Against War) on her blog qualifies as unhinged? And I use the word blog loosely. Not long ago I made a little calculation using MS Word Statistics. Once I had removed all the copy/pasted material, the hat-tips and link-lists, there was barely one fifth of “original content”.

She defends her actions by stating that it was already posted on another site. Which may be truthful but she should know that people who read her “blog” tend to be on the extreme side of the right, like herself. She thinks she’s done nothing wrong. “She refused to remove the information, even after she was politely asked and the safety concerns were brought to her attention.” (Taken from SAW’s Website)

Crooks and Liars reports that Keith Olberman in his usual cantankerous manner, awarded her the “World’s Worst,” today “for her posting private phone numbers from the UC Santa Criz students.”

Is it just me or this going too far? Sure we can disagree, but do we need to take measures to endanger the lives of others? Was this just another big publicity stunt to sell more books, get more hits on her site and get more TV time on FOX? Over at The Daily Kos they call her “the dark-haired, lashy, Ann Coulter understudy”, calling for better ethics in journalism in an accolade called “Minimize Harm”, which clearly states the obvious, that journalists should “recognize that private people have a greater right to control information about themselves than do public officials and others who seek power, influence or attention.” But as the article continues, it states that the obvious again: Malkin has no moral code and should be stripped of the title journalist.

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About David Desjardins

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I actually saw a serious discussion of BDS on DailyKos the other day. Apparently the term has caught on with some of the more rational people on the left to describe their brethren who go off the deep end in hating Bush just because he’s Bush, which even they feel is counterproductive. You can’t really discuss Bush’s genuine flaws when people start spouting some of the arrant silliness which is characteristic of those with BDS.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Yes. Personnaly I love to laugh at Bush when he does what he does, like stare aimlessly into the hanging camera for example. But in truth I can be highly critical, but because of his decisions which seems that I disagree with by defacto, but I think it through. But in the end I still think he’s one of the worse leaders the US has ever had. He’s too cavalier and arrogant and certainly not running on all cylinders. And all the corruption scandals that surround him lead most to conclude to the speculative obvious.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    If you think about it and reach those conclusions then more power to you. Sadly most of those who oppose Bush haven’t had a single original or analytical thought on the subject in their lives. They’re like hate-lemmings doing what the Chomskyites tell them to do. That phenomenon is what has generated terms like BDS and what makes them so effective.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Well anyone screaming off their soapbox like madmen/women (aka the likes of wacky Malkin) lack any credibility and sort of blur everything, on both sides, right or left.

    And I think that publishing private info of people that disagree with you is “unhinged derangement”.

  • Nancy

    Ah, but Dave, the reason those of us infected with BDS are infected with BDS is because we loathe all his qualities as a (putative) human being: his dishonesty, smugness, arrogance, stupidity, corruption, cronyism, incompetence, etc. etc. etc. I mean, there’s so MUCH to loathe, he’s almost in a class by himself, when you factor in what he should be capable of in terms of positives, and which he signally fails to achieve because he’s never had to actually perform & achieve on his own dime. Mind you, even I don’t put him in a loathing class like Kim Il; that’s beyond even W’s capabilites. But he’s certainly doing his slacker best to bottom out.

  • http://www.themole.net themole

    This website has now posted Malkin’s home address and someone has published a graphic of her house. All information was allegedly found on the internet and publically available. Touche

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    THat’s not right either (And I don’t think you should have linked it either) but it doesn’t excuse her actions

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    But he’s certainly doing his slacker best to bottom out.

    The problem here is that you seem to have formed the bizarre belief that a president doing something is actually better than a president not doing anything.

    Dave

  • troll

    *Sadly most of those who oppose Bush haven’t had a single original or analytical thought on the subject in their lives. They’re like hate-lemmings doing what the Chomskyites tell them to do.*

    ‘most of’ – ?

    Dave – one can’t do calligraphy with a pint roller….(unless he’s very very good)

    concerning #4 and all complaints against M – true…so how come she’s making the $

    troll

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Troll, because shitkickers always draw attention. If Paris Hilton can be popular just for being popular, imagine what someone who and can read and write can accomplish. The POTUS is a C student and he still gets to sit in the big chair.

  • Maurice

    I think there were plenty of people with CDS. People that just hated Clinton because he was Clinton. They accused Clinton of “dishonesty, smugness, arrogance, stupidity, corruption, cronyism, incompetence, etc. etc. etc.”

    JELIEL(cubed) I have to agree with your accessment of anyone that would stoop to such levels.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Indeed, Maurice. He’s been out of office for years and he still comes up as a point of contention to difuse critics or reorient attention onto something else than the task at hand when it concerns the administration.

  • Maurice

    Speaking of people being baggered until they just give up:

    Rove and McClellan just resigned.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    WOOHOO. That’s good news. But Rove seems that he’ll just be attached to other projects

    White House shakeup touches McClellan, Rove
    A shakeup in President Bush’s administration widened today as White House press secretary Scott McClellan announced his resignation and a senior administration official said longtime Bush confidant Karl Rove will no longer oversee policy development. News of McClellan’s exit comes shortly after the departure of White House chief of staff Andrew Card and amid calls for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
    (CNN)

  • MCH

    JELIEL3;

    So true, re Karl Rove…Stromboli (from Pinocchio) comes to mind…

  • Nancy

    Rove isn’t quitting: he’s been reassigned to assassinate anybody attempting to run outside the GOP/administration aegis, as usual, i.e. he’s back into the dirty politics business, where he started.

  • MCH

    Don’t think so, Nancy. He’s too afraid of guns, as proved by his draft-dodging during Vietnam.

  • gonzo marx

    i think Nancy meant “character assasination” there, MCH…geeez d00d, give it a rest…we all know

    but i digress…

    as for Malkin and her ilk…they continue the Rovian doctrine of “distract,distort,deny and destroy”

    not that Rove invented it, nor was he the first one to bring it to the modern GOP machine…he just perfected it beyond previous iterations…

    to me, it starts hardcore in ’93…allow me to Quote poetic to make the point…
    “wear the Grudge like a crown,
    negativity;
    calculate what you will, or will not
    tolerate;
    desperate to control,
    all and everything;
    unable to forgive,
    this Scarlet Letter.”

    TOOL

    just some Thoughts

    Excelsior!

  • Nancy

    *sigh* I need to get literal? Thanks, Gonzo, for the amplification, altho MCH is right, too: a cowardly maggot like Rove would never heft a gun. How come of everybody who gets mugged or assaulted in DC, no one ever goes after Rove? What’s wrong with these stupid criminals, anyway?

  • MCH

    gonz;

    NEVER!!!

  • Dawn

    Michele Malkin is just using her own minority status to gain exposure to herself. There is nothing that racists like more than when someone within a race group turns on their own.

    It just gives creedance to the racist viewpoint. She is really just an imitating hack and a screeching harpy. Women who spew that much hate at the general populous just for attention give other women a bad name

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Dave – one can’t do calligraphy with a pint roller….(unless he’s very very good)

    I beg to differ. I can do it. But the letters are going to be 3 feet high.

    Dave

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    I think you’ll find that’s graffiti not calligraphy!

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Dawn, I tend to agree and anyone with so much vitriol in their soul, has truly deeper issues than the political ones she whines on and on about. Sometimes I feel she’s just angry and would do the same in any other kind of forum other than political.

  • Lumpy

    Michelle Malkin iz a Hottie, She rocks. I love her for her multiethnic hotness and her beautiful wrinkly brain. I would like to make sweet skull-love to it.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Lumpy… you need help

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    I AM NOT AFRAID OF YOU
    By Michelle Malkin · April 19, 2006 08:53 PM

    You know who you all are.

    And if you think I’m going to stop blogging/writing/making a living because you’ve plastered my family’s private home address, phone numbers, and photos and maps of my neighborhood all over the Internet to further your manufactured outrage and pathetic coddling of a bunch of lying, anti-troops punks at UC Santa Cruz…

    …you better think again.

    Guess someone don’t know when to quit… But come on, like she didn’t see this type of retaliation coming miles away? There’s nuts on both sides.

  • Lumpy

    Thanks jeliel. You can hold her down for me.

  • Dave Nalle

    Wow, that site which posted Malkin’s home address and phone is truly a nest of virulently evil scumsuckers. They’re foursquare behind any opportunity to smear and distort their personal political enemies list and do as much harm as possible and they don’t seem to care about the consequences.

    Dave

  • RogerMDillon

    Sounds like you described Malkin, Dave. Funny, how she doesn’t like the taste of her medicine when it’s going down.

  • MCH

    It’s interesting to note how Nalle – BC’s hate monitor – has conveniently ignored commenting on Malkin’s hate-filled agenda….

  • Dave Nalle

    The article itself points out Malkin’s poor judgment. Of course her excuse is that it was done in defense of the troops, which means nothing to her detractors. I don’t really have anything to add.

    But unlike Malkin who quite often makes good points and exposes real issues – more than almost any other blogger I’ve encountered – the site that released her personal info is promoting all sorts of really hateful causes and basically has smear campaigning as its reason for being. Malkin is a right winger who many disagree with but who sometimes makes good points. The folks that are going after her are just hateful vermin – not for going after her in particular – but for their overall agenda of hate.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    She sometimes makes good point,but only sometimes and the “real issues” are often agenda oriented, not as altruism or journalistic integrity. Rest of the time, she just paroquettes the right wing agenda and does so with hate rage and anger, not wisdom. She’s a finger pointer and now she’s had it pointed on herself and she’s getting some of her own medecine. When you focus only on the ends and never consider the means, you will trip and hurt yourself

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    #28
    Lumpy

    No Lumpy I wont hold her down. You need another kind of help ;)

  • Arch Conservative

    “distract,distort,deny and destroy”

    Sounds like the Clinton doctorine to me.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    See what I mean Maurice? Clinton has been invoked to distract from the issue…

  • Maurice

    I don’t know that it is invoked to distract.

    IMO the outer fringes of both sides have some serious hate issues. Bush/Clinton are not deserving of such levels of hatred. It smacks of sports fans and their illogical bonding with (insert team name here).

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Then what else? Besides, for me, it isn’t a question of hate but fear for the future. Junior’s actions put everyone at risk, because he’s “the decider and knows what’s best” and thats where I think he’s in serious error. He can’t see further than his smirck

  • Maurice

    Is the howling from the left about Bush louder than the howling from the right about Clinton?

    I didn’t vote for either one of them because they both seem so milquetoast. Neither of them did a damn thing about the bombing of the USS Cole which happened at the end of Clinton’s watch and the beginning of Bush’s watch.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Oh I’m not excusing Clinton of anything. But he’s always summoned when attacks on the right becomes to contentious. He’s the ultimate scapegoat for the right. Clinton this, Clinton that. OK it’s all cool, but he’s not the president anymore, Junior is. He’s the decider who’s decisions should be questionned and examined under a microscope.

  • Nancy

    Smirk’s assertion that he’s the decider etc. almost made me choke on my juice. If that isn’t a typical response from a 9-year-old male I don’t know what is. I’ve always contended he’s the coddled rich kid who’s never had to grow up, but that’s a frightening confirmation of it.

    Bill Clinton really needs to give himself credit for what he’s achieved, which is to become the bugbear & standard of accusation & handwringing for conservatives & the Right in general, thereby replacing the late Warren Burger as the liberal booger under the bed. It really is something, after all, to become the gold standard by which an entire political party measures things.

  • Erika

    Talk about picking and choosing your facts. Something both sides have become to proficient at. 1) The left has been attacking Michelle since her book on the internment. They called her a slanty eyed c–t on Daily Kos more times than they accuse Bush of being a liar. 2) She did not post the numbers per se, they were on the press release she posted which was from the students, BIG difference. If you cannot see that difference and be honest about it, you will never be able to put aside your biases. Oh and the right brings up Clinton about as often as the left brought up Reagan. Really not much difference between the extreme of either side.

  • Lumpy

    Waiter, I’d like a serving of paroquettes and a drink so I can wash down my medecine. You know what I like about Malkin – besides her skullfuckability? She can spell common words like parrot and medicine correctly.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Lumpy, yer trolling…

  • ss

    “to further your manufactured outrage and pathetic coddling of a bunch of lying, anti-troops punks at UC Santa Cruz…”

    Michelle’s response makes it sound like she knew exactly what she was doing when she posted those names and addresses, Erika.
    Still, I am a little disappointed in the Daily Kos. ‘Slanty-eyed’ was un-called for.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    #45
    ss

    As usual Kos has words of the commenters put in his mouth. Trollers abound, even here. Unless it was Kox or his contributors that wrote this (if so please provide the link)

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Troller as in Troll.

    FROM Wikipedia
    In Internet terminology, a troll is someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude or offensive messages designed to annoy and antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Michelle’s response makes it sound like she knew exactly what she was doing when she posted those names and addresses, Erika.
    Still, I am a little disappointed in the Daily Kos. ‘Slanty-eyed’ was un-called for.

    You mean you only JUST discovered that racism drives much of the agenda of the left?

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Mr. Nalle, please don’t accuse the left of racism, the right is beyond white-washed. Racism exists beyond concepts of left and right. Racism is based in ignorance.

    “Do you have blacks, too?” —Bush to Brazilian President Fernando Cardoso, Washington, D.C., Nov. 8, 2001

    See what I mean by ignorance?

  • troll

    ‘troll’ also covers those who travel the net seeking information – creative ideas – and argument

    guess who

  • RogerMDillon

    Erika, you win this week’s “the pot calling the kettle black” award with your entry, “Talk about picking and choosing your facts.”

    According to you, “2) She did not post the numbers per se, they were on the press release she posted”

    If MM had posted the press release by way of a scanned image, your “per se” would almost have some validity, but in actuality someone at her site had to enter the info, so the numbers were posted and she has yet to remove them.

    To use your own words: “If you cannot see that difference and be honest about it, you will never be able to put aside your biases.”

    I believe this is where Gonzo says, “Quoted for Truth.”

    Mr. JELIEL³, please don’t expect Nalle to be fair and balanced in his criticisms. He’s carved out a niche that works for him regardless of what it does to his credibilty. If he wanted to be taken seriously, he would attack both sides equally.

  • Dan

    So let me get this straight. Cute as a button Michelle Malkin’s crew transcribed a press release from the students, and this is a big deal?

    Sounds more like stupidity from the student zealots.

  • Dave Nalle

    According to you, “2) She did not post the numbers per se, they were on the press release she posted”

    If MM had posted the press release by way of a scanned image, your “per se” would almost have some validity, but in actuality someone at her site had to enter the info, so the numbers were posted and she has yet to remove them.

    Good lord, I missed this the first time through. The students released their own personal info in a press release? That puts a whole different light on this and makes this accusation against Malkin pure ridiculousness since the supposed victims were eseentially soliciting for people to contact them. All Malkin was doing was essentially giving them free publicity.

    Mr. JELIEL³, please don’t expect Nalle to be fair and balanced in his criticisms.

    I’ve never claimed to be fair and balanced. I’m just honest. I happen to have a philosophy which embraces some ideas considered left wing and others considered left wing, but from my perspective I’m just speaking out for what I believe is right regardless of whether you agree or not.

    Manufactured balance is a worthless fraud.

    He’s carved out a niche that works for him regardless of what it does to his credibilty. If he wanted to be taken seriously, he would attack both sides equally.

    No. That would make me some sort of acceptance whore. I’ll stick with honestly expressing my opinion and you can agree or not as you choose. That’s what gets you credibility, not saying what people want to hear.

    Dave

  • Arch Conservative

    jeliele………..there are in fact racists on the left and right….but the left has mainstreamed it and institutionalized it..

  • http://jpsgoddamnblog.blogspot.com JP

    Dave, I’d have to agree that a number of readers of Kos do suffer from BDS. It doesn’t help rational discussion any more than “Democrats are traitors” does. Both sides need to chill out.

    As for #48, “Slanty-eyed’ was un-called for.–You mean you only JUST discovered that racism drives much of the agenda of the left?” I’d agree with you to a point–that point being that the right is JUST as guilty of racism, except theirs is usually aimed at Arabs and Mexicans these days.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    #54
    Arch Conservative

    Wake up AC…. snap out of it.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Ah, JP. But where we may not agree is on the point that I believe that the entire political powerbase of the democratic party is based on racial exploitation and encouraging race and class hatred.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Holy crap and they call the left unhinged…

  • troll

    or one could say that the entire political powerbase of the democratic party is based on its defense of the public from the republican agenda of race and class exploitation

    troll

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    I fail to understand why Mr Nalle has such an odd understanding of the left.

    Perhaps something disturbing or strange happened to him in his youth?

    It might explain the weird offset on his political compass…

  • gonzo marx

    troll sez…
    *or one could say that the entire political powerbase of the democratic party is based on its defense of the public from the republican agenda of race and class exploitation*

    wait for it…..

    Quoted for Truth

    Excelsior!

  • MCH

    (Intolerable cliche and personal attack against Nalle deleted)

    There Chris, saved you the effort.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Troll, one can say anything one likes, but it doesn’t make it true. Republicans actively work to enable and lift up minorities into their leadership. Democrats foster poverty and ignorance in order to keep an entire class of people loyal and dependent on them.

    And Christopher, my beliefs about the left were formed by three things. Growing up in the 1960s in Washington DC, living in Europe during the 1970s including in the Soviet Union, and working with political activists from the left on various causes. So I got to see the disastrous outcome of successful socialism and got first hand experience of the corruption and hypocrisy of the activist left.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Everybody stand back… he’s got creds. Your world view is still distorted.

  • troll

    Dave – you beat me to it…I was going to post: ‘gonzo – I don’t know about truth but it is an alternative to Dave’s POV’

    but since your hackles are up I’ll post:

    yup – bless them republicans…given an economy in which the poorer half the population shares 14% of the wealth getting by their response has been to encourage the divide between rich and poor to grow larger

    troll

  • gonzo marx

    yes troll..i know..i waws being semi-sarcastic and very snarky with that last quote bit…

    couldn’t help it…but you are absolutely correct in that it is an opposing and as equally valid (if not more so) a PoV than what was stated elsewhere

    and there’s the rub…

    if we coudl just get away from the sterotypes and namecalling…and instead infuse a bit of Objectivity…add a healthy dose of “We the People” rather than the Campaign Contributers…

    we might actually get somewhere

    i can Dream…can’t i?

    Excelsior!

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    MCH: You’ve been getting much funnier recently. Thanks and keep it up!

  • troll

    gonzo – speaking of dreams…I keep having this horrific one in which JuJu informs me that the Buddha got it wrong…that if it works at all then it works for all…that there is no individual redemption….that we’re all coming back

    unless Dave comes around soon we’re all screwed

    what a nightmare

    troll

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Dave, you really are so wrong on this. What you saw were bad examples of relatively new social and political ideas.

    That doesn’t mean that the whole area of social politics is tainted anymore than the facts that the USA is the country with the world’s greatest disparity of income and huge numbers of people so poor that they are involved in the type of relief programmes you might normally think were reserved for Third World countries mean that capitalism is a failed doctrine!

  • gonzo marx

    troll…much to consider there…would that i had the Clarity of your Dream…

    as for “socialists” and some folks assertations…

    i note that the ones cited tended to really be totalitarian oligarchies..

    but the closer models would be countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark…where things actually work pretty decently…for them

    so, once again…a straw man is tossed in the path of the roaring “truck” of Logic in an attempt to make it swerve off the road…

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    yup – bless them republicans…given an economy in which the poorer half the population shares 14% of the wealth getting by their response has been to encourage the divide between rich and poor to grow larger

    As discussed at length on another thread, this isn’t true. While the difference in wealth between the rich and poor has changed by a fractional amount, the rate at which people leave poverty and increase in wealth has gone up far more, so in fact the rich and poor as individuals are coming closer together.

    That doesn’t mean that the whole area of social politics is tainted anymore than the facts that the USA is the country with the world’s greatest disparity of income and huge numbers of people so poor that they are involved in the type of relief programmes you might normally think were reserved for Third World countries mean that capitalism is a failed doctrine!

    You actually think the poorest poor in the US are even vaguely comparable in quality of life to people in the third world? Even our working poor, without any government assistance have a better standard of living than the middle class in any third world country. The same is true for those on government assistance. We may have some poor people, but the nature of poverty in America is hardly the same life-threatening and marginal existence which is experienced by the poor of the third world. The number our government assigns as the cutoff for poverty is 20 times the average income of most third world families.

    but the closer models would be countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark…where things actually work pretty decently…for them

    The problem with these examples is that these are stagnant societies where little has changed politically, economically or culturally in generations. Democratic socialism keeps them stable, but the price they pay for an overall decent lifestyle is little advancement or opportunity. If people from these countries want to live more than a marginal, structured existence they have to go somewhere else. And then look what happens when you introduce immigrants and a class of poor people to the society. It literally tears itself apart as we see happening in Denmark right now. This type of system would never work in the US, so it’s insane to consider it or address it with anything but scorn, since belief in such a system for a dynamic country like the US is suicidally stupid.

    Dave

  • troll

    *As discussed at length on another thread, this isn’t true. While the difference in wealth between the rich and poor has changed by a fractional amount, the rate at which people leave poverty and increase in wealth has gone up far more, so in fact the rich and poor as individuals are coming closer together.*

    Dave – and as in that other thread your argument begs the question – why such an unequal division of wealth in the first place – and is non responsive…a little concentration of wealth is still concentration of wealth

    the halves are coming closer together only if you cross your eyes

    troll

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    the halves are coming closer together only if you cross your eyes

    Well put…

  • gonzo marx

    i woudl ask the gentle Readers to note…my point about the scandanavian countries was that those systems work well enough for them

    that is the crucial bit which appears to have been missed by the commenter who quoted me

    an Important distinction, IMO, but subtleties such as that are lost on some folks

    objects in mirror are closer than they appear

    Excelsior!

  • Dave Nalle

    Dave – and as in that other thread your argument begs the question – why such an unequal division of wealth in the first place – and is non responsive…a little concentration of wealth is still concentration of wealth

    I’m not sure what response you want here, troll. It’s the nature of a free society that some succeed and others do not. We’re very fortunate that the price of failure is relatively bearable because we are such a rich country overall.

    What I will point out is that if you take out the wealthiest 1% of the population who have essentially catapulted themselves above the general economy the disparity in wealth between the average income of the top 20% and the bottom 20% is the difference between $150,000 a year and $25,00 a year – basically a 6:1 ratio, which is not that great a spread.

    IMO you cannot count the ultra-rich in any reasonable assessment of the economy because they are so wealthy that things like earned income and normal sources of wealth generation used by other people don’t apply to them, nor do for the most part national boundaries or identity as citizens of a particular nation.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    It’s nice to theoreticaly remove variables from calculations to get the desired results eh? Hw convenient. Oh! To make the calculation work, we don’t count them, don’t worry it’ll still show a real view of reality… wink wink.

    It won’t change that nearly 40% of Americans don’t have healthcare insurrance.

    It won’t change that the poor in the US are extremly poor. Not slightly below the margin, but well below it.

    Nalle, you are pretty good at distorting facts to fit your prefered world view.

  • troll

    *It’s the nature of a free society that some succeed and others do not.*

    or one could say that it’s the nature of a society laboring under the heavy yoke of profit driven capitalists and their economic theory of exploitation to tolerate the divide between rich and poor

    troll

  • gonzo marx

    and it doesn’t take into account that those 1% so conveniently removed from the fallacious equation control well over 60% of the nations wealth

    silly things like Facts and complete equations don’t hinder the Apologists…

    but yas knew that

    Excelsior!

  • troll

    *IMO you cannot count the ultra-rich in any reasonable assessment of the economy*

    IMO they serve as a repository for wealth that otherwise could ‘trickle down’ even to the poorer half – one can’t assess the economy without taking them into consideration

    troll

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    It’s the universe that balances everything out. The cons added to much to the scale, it is inevitable that the liberals will push back. It is, as it were, the doing of the conservatives.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    It’s not the divide between the rich and the poor that matters, but the divide between the poor and prosperity and living a decent life in the middle class. And that division is NOT large in the US. That’s the thing which really matters.

    Dave

  • troll

    easy for us to say comfortable ensconced in the richer half

    troll

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    troll, I wasn’t always in the richer half, were you? Like 82% of those in the bottom income group in a given decade I moved up in income through hard work.

    Dave

  • gonzo marx

    “the bottom half” ?????

    funny…i was unaware of certain exclusive prep schools letting in that “other half”

    but i digress….

    Excelsior!

  • Dave Nalle

    Gonzo, graduating from an ‘exclusive prep school’ doesn’t guarantee instant six-figure income, you know. When I graduated from college my first job paid $14K a year.

    Dave

  • gonzo marx

    to comment #87…

    graduating doesn’t (how many presidents have been in that school?)…

    however…being able to get into that school, and having a family able to pay for it, is certainly a definate Advantage for an elitist pig as opposed to those less well off who have truly bootstrapped themselves to where they are

    i don’t really mind those with the silver spoon…i just destest the hypocrisy of such trying to say they “understand” or have “had it just as hard” as those whose circumstances of birth made them less fortunate…

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • Dave Nalle

    graduating doesn’t (how many presidents have been in that school?)…

    Actually, Gonzo, I don’t think we have any graduates who’ve actually made it to president. And I’ve voted against the two I had an opportunity to vote for. A VP and quite a few Senators, Congressmen and Governors, though.

    however…being able to get into that school, and having a family able to pay for it, is certainly a definate Advantage for an elitist pig as opposed to those less well off who have truly bootstrapped themselves to where they are

    Sure, but I never had the opportunity to not work and sit around on my spotty behind living off a trust fund like some. As people who went there go I was definitely in the set who could barely afford it – one step above the inner city kids there on scholarship.

    i don’t really mind those with the silver spoon…i just destest the hypocrisy of such trying to say they “understand” or have “had it just as hard” as those whose circumstances of birth made them less fortunate…

    Poor is poor. Being born into wealth and then having to live in poverty for a few years doesn’t make the poverty any more fun.

    Dave

  • troll

    *troll, I wasn’t always in the richer half, were you?*

    hmmm – born into a family of white academics there was never a time that I honestly can say I was a member of the poorer half

    * graduating from an ‘exclusive prep school’ doesn’t guarantee instant six-figure income*

    but unfortunately it doesn’t take a six figure income to be a member of the richer half…if it did there would be less validity to a claim of basic inequity

    troll

  • Lumpy

    Last time I checked the top 50 percent of incomes started at about $65K which is well below six figures.

    There will always be poor people. If we didn’t already have some we’d find a way to make them or import them.

  • RogerMDillon

    “Republicans actively work to enable and lift up minorities into their leadership.”

    When was the last time you looked at Congress? It look a tad white on the right side of the building. Or when you write “actively work” do you mean “provide lip service”?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Well Roger, the GOP is fielding more african american candidates for national office this year than any party has in any previous year, and about double the number running for the Democrats. I think that sends a pretty clear message.

    Dave

  • gonzo marx

    comment #91

    link please?

    i find that statement to be difficult to believe, but i will gladly change my thoughts if shown differently

    do a quick google and you will see that the current situation bears no resemblance to what is stated in #91

    Excelsior!

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Yes link please.

    Because we all know how the Reps will use tokens. Like at Junior’s last SOTU where his wife was seated between a token arab person and a token black person. And when he spoke of black people, the camera was alreading panning on black people in the audience. Scripted and produced by the office of propaganda, the GOP.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Gonzo I’m working on a whole article about it, which will have plenty of links. It’s well documented. You clearly haven’t done the google search you’re recommending if you think I’m not telling the truth. Do the search yourself and you’ll find out how wrong you are.

    And Jeliel, the GOP doesn’t use ‘tokens’. You think the position of Secretary of State is just a token? You think the Supreme Court and the Attorney General are just tokens? That’s the most partisan, bullshit thing I’ve heard all day.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    I’m not saying those are tokens. But you need to adresse my argument also.

    Are you denying that the SOTU setup wasn’t “tokenism”? It was just coicidence?

  • troll

    Republican and Black – US News and World Repot

    Republicans Train Black Candidates – BlackCollegeReview

    Newsweek audio on black candidates

    troll

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Jeliel, I object to your use of the word ‘tokenism’. If Bush chooses to position a black and an arab behind him during the SOTU address, why is that a problem. He’s making a statement, and it’s not a statement about tokenism, it’s a statement about inclusion. Is inclusion a bad thing? Is there something wrong with sending a message to minorities that the GOP welcomes them? It’s only tokenism if it’s hypocticial, but since Bush has appointed more minorities to top-level administration positions than all other presidents added together, I think it’s pretty damned safe to say it’s sincere and not tokenism. Tokenism is the one black guy in a position of prominence but little responsibility who you trot out and use to show you’re not a racist. Sincerity is:

    Colin L. Powell, Secretary of State
    Roderick R. Paige, Secretary of Education
    Condoleezza Rice, National Security Adviser and Secretary of State
    Alphonso Jackson, Deputy Secretary to Housing and Urban Development
    Claude Alien, Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services
    Leo S. Mackay, Jr, Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs
    Larry D. Thompson, Deputy Attorney General,
    Stephen A. Perry, Adminstrator of General Services Adminstration

    Would you like me to list the Hispanics too? That list is even longer.

    And troll, thanks for the additional links. I may use them in my article.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Dave you miss the point. I’m not talking about ppl with positions. I’m talking about scripting and producing the SOTU like it was a TV show trying to score ratings and taking the public for idiots.

    But seriously, 8 positions in all 3 branches? Even if it’s more than anyone else, is it enough?

    But then you chose to put trust in the government. Big mistake in my book. Because a closer look at the facts demonstrate otherwise.

    Taken from BlackAmricaToday.com

    According to Legal Defense and Educational Fund, 200 of Bush’s appointees have been confirmed, only 15 of them Black (7.5 percent). Moreover, seven of the 15 were replacing other African-Americans.

    Clinton, in his first term alone, appointed 33 Black judges out of 170, nearly 20 percent. In his second term, with a Republican majority in the Senate, Clinton still appointed 20 Black judges out of 137 or 14 percent. Clinton’s 53 Black appointments rank him ahead of second-place Jimmy Carter, who appointed 39 African-American judges.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Sorry for the typo, it’s BlackAmericaToday.com

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Ah Jeliel. That stat is so deceptive. Bush has actually nominated or proposed for nomination a number of other African American judges, but almost half of them were blocked or stalled or forced to withdraw their nominations by Democrats in the Senate.

    And those 8 positions are only those at the top levels of appointments. And his appointments of hispanics outstrip any other president ever by enormous amounts.

    This is an argument you just can’t win, man.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Your arguments are null, and void, since you provide no sources for your arguments. You only provide reinterpretations to fit your world view and condecending comments.

    Because playing the reinterpretation game is fairly simple. I could say that Junior made the nominations you say he made,knowing they would never get approved to manipulate public perception into believing that he’s a multiculturist and that the democrats are the “evil-doers”.

    And last I checked there are 55 republican seats and 44 democratic seats filled. Giving Junior the advantage. I know the democrats like to block the republicans but they rarely win even if they make the appointee’s wife ball her eyes out on TV. And some democrats vote in favor of republican nominees also. I don’t see how this could be the senates fault. But the Junior is never accountable for anything he does, despite being the POTUS…

  • Dave Nalle

    Jeliel, it’s clear that nothing would convince you that the GOP is anything but a stereotypical evil empire. Facts, truth, obvious implications of actions – all pretty much irrelevant to you.

    Dave

  • Bliffle

    Who cares about the GOP? Or the DNC? Personally, I don’t have any money invested in either one, nor do I depend on their fortunes in any way for my welfare. So, why should I care? Why would YOU care? Why would anyone, except those who get their paychecks from them, or who feel they have sufficiently suborned party members so that they can assert their personal demands successfully, care?

    Each party has shown themselves sufficiently inconsistent (I won’t use the cheapshot word ‘hypocrisy’ since hypocrisy is the common coin of politics) to take any position at any time on any issue.

    Thus, the only recourse for us small-time citizens is to ignore party and vote every issue on it’s merits, as it applies to us. The hell with party!

  • troll

    unfortunately congress is organized around party…you want to get an item on the agenda – ?

    party on

    troll

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Jeliel, it’s clear that nothing would convince you that the GOP is anything but a stereotypical evil empire. Facts, truth, obvious implications of actions – all pretty much irrelevant to you.

    Dave

    That would be the condecending part.

    Especialy since I stated facts with sources as backup and you failed to even address my arguments. And when it comes to Facts, truth, obvious implications of actions there’s one important part missing… intent. Usualy what they stand to gain is revelatory of their intent. Like giving no bid contracts to your buddies. Mmmmm what could anyone gain from doing that? I dunno!?!?!

    Also they are not an evil empire. An Evil Empire would have suceeded by now. I consider them incompetent.

    Let’s say you are the leader of The “Greatest Nation in the World“. Mad Arabs fly planes into big buildings in an important city. (This is just hypothetical here, but it could happen right?) and when you, the great leader, the decider, get the news do you

    a) sit there like an idiot for 7 minutes
    b) keep reading a children’s book
    c) All of the above
    d) get up and take charge like a true leader

    Another hypothetical. You are still the big cheese, the one who knows what decisions to make. A big natural disaster, say a hurricane for example, hits a big city on the coast, the levees break loose and so does all hell. People dying girls and women getting raped, bodies floating all over the place, police shooting at civilians, police looting stores, an entire area is layed to waste. Do you

    a) ignore it for four days
    b) get pictures taken with a country music star holding his guitar
    c) attend a town hall meeting
    d) go to San Diego
    e) let VUSAR humiliate you by showing up a day before the storm and turning them back
    f) all of the above
    g) Take charge and save your people even if it means countermanding the structured bureaucracy that says local SAR units have to be the first responders?

    I dunno about you but his inaction and the rest of his administration’s inaction leads me to implicate that they are incompetent.

  • troll

    concerning #89

    oops – fell down on the job here…

    national median income according to the 2000 census was 42K so your 65K sounds a little high

    troll

  • Joey

    Jeliel (whatever the 3 stands for)

    I have to call you on the disaster response, and I might add, I’m getting really tired of repeating myself.

    You don’t have a clue. I understand you think you may know how to react to a crisis, but you don’t. Nobody moves until some intial facts are ascertained. 7 minutes? Whoa, just enough time to hop in the phone booth and change into a superhero. You are living in a fantasy. You still believe that major disasters, crises etc… and the reaction to them happen at a Hollywood pace… after all you have 90 minutes in most movies to solve the problem and save the world.

    That’s it. America thinks like a Hollywood movie. The world thinks America is really like a Hollywood movie. “Swimmin’ pools, Movie stars”

    That’s YOUR problem. Reality is quite different. From executive decisions, to executive protection… you just don’t go about it willy-nilly. You practice and adhere to the practice of situational awareness. Any good intelligent professional knows that. You should perhaps spend a few semesters boning up on the subject, otherwise you’re just boring everyone with you complete lack of understanding on the subject.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Jeliel, as you demonstrate in #105, what you think are ‘facts’ are merely opinions and interpretations which are highly subject to debate, or just straight out not true.

    The 7 minutes – as has been discussed exhaustively before – is a very small amount of time which Bush was almost certainly told by his security staff he would have to wait until he could safely get into his car and get access to the communications equipment he needed in a safe environment. Trying to make an issue of it is ridiculous.

    As for your 4 day delay in responding to Katrina, it’s a crock of shit. Bush was actively responding to the situation before the hurricane even hit – 3600 national guard troops were even deployed in advance – had declared the area a disaster area within 24 hours of landfall, and took a variety of other actions to monitor and deal with the situation.

    This idea that the president has to be sitting infront of a TV camera in some sort of situation room to deal with problems or even to do his job is very outdated. It doesn’t recognize the organizational and communications ability of modern government at all. Well, it’s either an outdated idea or it’s deliberately deceptive.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Joey, First Responders VUSAR, check out this video of FoxNews

    If you are the president and your country is under attack, you excuse yourself from reading a kids book and promtly leave to go access the situation. You get up and you act. You do not wait 7 minutes looking like the dumb F**k that he is. You move, tou do, you act. If you think that sitting there doing nothing is the realistic thing to do, you are the one that lives in Wonderland

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Dave it is fact, as the video showing him sitting there for 7 minutes alone in front of a class. That is fact. You are the one speculating he was told to sit there by security. Even if he was, a true leader LEADS and like he likes to say DECIDES what’s best and does.

    If what you say is true than his response, his action was incompetent. Took 4 days before he implacated himself, where we got to see him make a worried face looking out the window of an airplane (or helicopter, I forget which it was) followed by photo opps galore

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Meaningless action in a random direction as being preferable to appropriate action at the right time and in the right direction. That sort of sums up the philosophy of the left in a nutshell. Chickens running around with their heads cut off.

    As for the 4 days, his actions from before the hurricane hit land and immediately thereafter are a matter of record and well documented. Your 4 days comment is just nothing but spin.

    Dave

  • troll

    I’ve never understood the ‘7 minute’ scandal…what was he suposed to do while ‘The Plan’ was put in motion – start giving orders – ?

    and who is to say that he wasn’t frustrated by the amount of time it took to get him additional information and into motion

    I take him at his word that he didn’t want to alarm the kids

    troll

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Troll you gotta be kidding. Alarm the kids? You take his word? This debate only alarms me in one way, how some of you blindly trust a politician especially after all the scandals that surround him.

    Not give orders… ASSESS the situation and START getting a plan together, he’s the boss, he’s the decider, remember? A leader doesn’t need all the information, but he does need to get the plan underway ASAP.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Yes Dave, it’s always just spin, you were right all along. Far be it for me to question his holiness George Dubya Bush…

  • Dave Nalle

    Jeliel, you’re just being peevish now.

    Now, go write me an essay detailing how Bush could have un-crashed the planes in the space of 7 minutes when he was 1500 miles away.

    Dave

  • gonzo marx

    well now, the 7 minute bit has always fascinated me…

    one asks what could he do?

    remember, not 10 steps away from him is “the Football”…with all the proper launch codes..

    go back to your cold war training, and remember the window opf how long it takes for NORAD to warn, and it being too late (much less than 7 mins)

    ask yourself how bright it is, when told we are under attack, to sit there and do nothing for longer than it would take for Armageddon to arrive

    and we are supposed to believe THAT is the Decider

    it would be funny, if it wasn’t so fucking pitiful

    nuff said

    Excelsior!

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Well Dave, You yourself began this argument by stating I couldn’t win, so convinced of being right you are.

  • MCH

    Sheeesh, Nalle, you need to get a life and quit cyber-stalking the guy. Step outside once in awhile, the fresh air will do ya good, ya know?

  • troll

    I’d bet that all plans and scenarios were spun up and ready to go without input from the POTUS

    had there been any indication of missiles or the like you can bet that there would have been a scramble kids or not

    troll

  • Joey

    J3,
    You’re not winning. Start counting out how long 7 minutes really are. Planes are crashing into buildings the President is in a remote location, a number of miles from AF1. What is his Secret Service detachment doing? What? Are they looking at their watches wondering if the the man is ever going to finish reading to the children? No. Their getting as much information that they can about the route back to AF1. Then they will move. I’m sure the route was being physically checked for any inconsistancies. Until they give the thumbs up, the Chief Executive is not moving. Period.

    Your whole Katrina tirade is tired. You really don’t know what you’re talking about. You move responders and equipment out of the strike zone, so you have responders and equipment left to respond after the event.

    9/11 was a WME with criminality.
    Katrina was a WME without criminality.

    WMD’s are a subset of WME’s. You cannot contain anything the which has the force of a Hurricane, or an atomic device. You clear out and respond after the event.

    Therein lies your inconsistancy, you proclaim much, with little authority on the subject. In fact, opinions usually come from those without authority, whether actual authority or actual knowledge on any given subject. You have adequately demonstrated that you have neither. But you do have snappy retorts, which have little substance. Quit fooling yourself. Professing to be wise, you are showing yourself to be a fool, living in a fools paradice.

  • Joey

    And furthermore, Presidents don’t assess crap until they get briefed. Put a brief together within 7 minutes after the initial strike. You’re dreaming.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Nice work Joey. The GOP should hire you for their Character Assasination Department. You have potential.

    Still the admin played ignorance when the MSM was already on site. And a SAR team from VANCOUVER as in Vancouver CANADA was on site one day before the storm hit.

    You can defend your divinely led master as you wish, but in the end, he’s still an incompetent fool.

  • gonzo marx

    point of Order…the SS ONLY assess immediate threats to POTUS….NOT situational circumstances, if there is no threat to POTUS, they are not involved, that is up to the appropriate staffers…

    during that 7 mins, POTUS would have been informed of the incident…then he woudl have had to be the Decider

    he decided to do nothing at the time

    on Katrina, interesting to note that various news organizations were on the scene first…also that celebrities had boats in the area with supplies and doing rescues long before FEMA mobilized

    i have previously cited the FEMA Law that the President signed in 2003, making him and his Office responsible in full for all disaster response

    just sharing

    Excelsior!

  • Dave Nalle

    So gonzo, in #116 you’re suggesting that in response to the 9/11 attacks Bush should have nuked Russia?

    How about some ideas on what he could do in 7 minutes which wouldn’t cause WW3.

    Dave

  • Dave Nalle

    Damn, Joey – what’s with all this making sense. You’re going to traumatize Jeliel.

    Dave

  • gonzo marx

    for #124…

    i suggested NO such thing..merely that such a contingency is standard operating procedure when the NORAD net of security has been breached, as it had been as soon as 3 airliners went off course without checking in to any tower

    try checking up on the Fed Aviation Commission procedures for such, and then cross reference it with the procedures used at Cheyene mountain

    First order of business is to get POTUS and the Football to a safe place…period

    be all that as it may, can you honestly defend the Decider’s behavior on that day? note the time between what could possibly have been an accident (first plane hits) and the second plane striking…remember, between those times the Aviation commission was well aware that all 3 birds were off their course…again, look at the standard procedures for such…and if POTUS was NOT informed such was occuring as a detail after the first plane hit, then some folks in the Administration deserve to be hung for incompetance

    so…what could have been done in 7 mins that didn’t involve WW3?

    simplicity itself…you leave the classroom, apologizing that you had to do some Presidential stuff (anyone remember a similar incident on the West Wing years earlier?) you give the order to scramble all ready units….find the missing birds, and defend the fucking Nation

    that’s Leadership and the proper execution of a Commander in Chief…if you are incapable of doing so…there are plenty in the Pentagon who are more than capable of doing so once given the word to take initiative from the CiC

    it helps if you know how these things are supposed to work, and something of the actual culture and procedures already in place…ALL of these scenarios and an infinitude more are written out, in triplicate…and many bright and brave people wait patiently hoping they are never needed, but quite ready to do what is required

    so make your peurile fucking jokes…the fact is, our “Leader” froze…like a deer in the headlights

    and people died…not his fault, the fault of those flying theplanes, but partially his Responsibility for nto even trying to stop it once informed…for 7 long minutes…plenty of time to scramble interceptors and stop one or maybe even both of the other planes

    this sever lack of Judgement continues when the conflict in Afghanistan was left half assed not quite done…and all those resources, troops, Intel and money went towards an elective, pre-emptive invasion…which had NOTHING to do with the tragedy of 9/11…and whose timetable for invasion was NOT chosen for military purposes, but for the political considerations of an election year ( not just my Opinion..how many gnerals will tell you this, as well as common sense if one looks objectively at the facts…one case…you don’t invade a desert in the summer)

    too much vitriol from your humble Narrator…but my patience with stupidity goes in inverse proportion to my stubbornly not taking required pain medication…

    so, enjoy your kool-aide binge

    c ya after November…if there is ANY Justice left in our Nation, the stonewalling and outright Lies will be stopped…and some Answers will come forth

    Excelsior!

  • Dave Nalle

    simplicity itself…you leave the classroom, apologizing that you had to do some Presidential stuff (anyone remember a similar incident on the West Wing years earlier?) you give the order to scramble all ready units….find the missing birds, and defend the fucking Nation

    So you do that right AFTER the 7 minutes it takes for the SS to check the front of the school and make sure the car is ready to go. We’re talking SEVEN MINUTES here, guys. It takes me 7 minutes to find my keys in the morning and I’m not worrying about terror attacks while I’m looking for them.

    Dave

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    gonzo – I have a problem with someone using a bullshit NBC series to define what the POTUS is supposed to do in an attack. And now that I know you watch that liberal bullshit program…you’ve lost points with me. I really really thought you were smarter than that. I know, I know, that breaks your heart…

    But I think you’re all right. The pres should have jumped up out of that chair and stopped those fucking planes himself! And why the hell should he do what the SS tells him. WTF do they know?

    If he’d a jumped up…scared the little kiddies…you people would be screaming…why didn’t he just sit there a minute…why’d he have to scare all those little kids?!??!

    But not to worry…the conspiracy folks will be here in a litle while to tell you all that there were no planes anyway. And that’s just as believeable as most of the bullshit I’ve been reading here.

  • gonzo marx

    to #127..

    learn how the SS works…they had the entire town/county secured..it takes less than a minute to get POTUS to his secured vehicle…

    and for Andy…fuck you brother…i NEVER said he should have done what a TV show did…i merely pointed out that a mere TV show (co-written by ex-WH staffers) showed a similar incident (in the WH when POTUS was visiting with some first graders) that the Pres could easily make an excuse and detach himself from the kiddies without “alarming” them…which was the Shrubs excuse for sitting there that long…

    side note..i’ve seen maybe 10 episodes of WW…all the first season..(one or two might have been second season…lost interest after that)

    as for the bull shit distortion and distraction of the Pres stopping those planes himself…of course not..the Shrub is not even qualified to fly…

    however…he DOES have to give the order to scramble those interceptors at VA beach…and other places, which COULD have easily reached one or both of the remaining planes (definately the one that went down in Philly…and if nto stopped the other (time constraints) at least made contact) if the order had been given in time…

    so…bullshit point number 1 shot down..from #127…as someone familiar with Ss procedure, let me assure you , SCOTUS would have been out of the building in less than a minute…carried physically is needed…had the SS decided it was neccesary…(you realy shoudl do your homework)

    and bullshit point number 2 shot down…for Mr Marsh…the TV show merely demonstated that it is simple to tell kids you have some stuff to do and walk out calmly…so the horseshit about hysterics is pure crap…think about it, don’t you have kids? could you not excuse yourself easily without panicking them…hell , they woudl have no idea why you left the room unless you told them..correct?

    so now who is being less than intelligent?

    and here i had thought you were smarter than that Mr Marsh…

    too bad

    Excelsior!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I have daughters gonzo, they want to know my every move…so…no, I can’t just excuse myself…at least not without a bunch of crap! I was living in the west valley of Phoenix on 9/11 and I’m here to tell you…the planes from Luke AFB were scrambled and I’m sure they were scrambled here also.

    As far as intelligence (not mine and yours gonzo, but military type) who knows what was known in those initial minutes after the first attack. I remember watching the news that morning…wondering what the hell was going on…was it an accident? I didn’t know and I don’t think to many other people knew until the second plane hit.

    and you can say you shot down anything you want…but when you use a liberal make believe tv show to make a point it’s just as bad as using fox news or rush to make a point.

    fuck you back…brother!…I still love you gonzo…even if you did hurt my feelings!

  • gonzo marx

    Mr Marsh…

    my apologies for hurting your “feelings”

    i’ll not do so again…

    great time here at BC…but this last bit of shit is all i need to know i need at minimum some time away, if not a permanent hiatus

    just for the record, as i pointed out above, that TV show is co-written by ex-WH staffer (Lawrence Kasdan for one)…and i used it only as an example of how POTUS can gracefully excuse himself in under 30 seconds form any social or photo-op occasion

    as for planes scrambling…on the east coast…many were in the air on “anti-terrorist” excercises…this is well documented…as was the lag of Orders and instruction from the CiC to the Air Controllers as well as those jets in the air

    my point is that 7 minutes could have made a difference, maybe not…but we will never know

    good bye and good luck

  • Bliffle

    gonzo:

    “…so…what could have been done in 7 mins that didn’t involve WW3?

    …you leave the classroom, apologizing that you had to do some Presidential stuff… you give the order to scramble all ready units….find the missing birds, …

    that’s Leadership and the proper execution of a Commander in Chief…”

    I think that’s about right, and that’s what any normal person would do.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that GWB doesn’t take his job seriously. That’s why he ignored the warning a month before 9/11. I think he believed that his election was a sort of party, an honor, and he could do as he pleased. His attendance record at his job is terrible, often below 50%. If he worked for me I’d fire him.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Gonzo, the SS had a schedule to follow. Since the emergency changed the schedule, as a person familiar with their procedures, you ought to know that they would have had to call ahead to clear the route and make sure the plane was ready to receive POTUS and make sure that everything was secure at the vulnerable points. The idea that that should take 7 minutes is not particularly unreasonable. Try seeing how much you can do in 7 minutes sometime.

    And given that it’s basically unknown what the SS was doing and what Bush could have done that wasn’t done – likely very little – why must you always argue on the negative side and never consider the positive? What good does that do?

    Dave

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Gonzo, until next time, arrivedercior.

  • TechGuy

    I do hope some of you people are happy now. I have just watched one of the finest men I know leave work for the day, doubled over in agony and wondered why. Lunchtime here at work, when I like read this site to get some news and insight. Now I know what happened.

    Most of you are not fit to clean that man’s shoes.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    What are babling about TechGuy?

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    What are you* babling about TechGuy?

  • not gonzo marx

    I am babbling about comment 131, and the health of a co-worker who writes on this website. Many of us here at work have taken to reading this website because he writes here.

    Now, he and I do not often agree on many things, myself being a good Christian and a member of the Republican Party. But he is a very moral and intelligent man who I don’t like seeing brought low by a medical condition aggravated by stress.

    From what I have been able to figure out from my readings over the last two weeks, I now understadn why he has been in such pain recently and am voicing my displeasure.

    I’ll be removing this website from my bookmarks and praying for his swift recovery.

  • TechGuy

    My apologies for the mis posting, “gonzo” and I share a computer here at work and his name was still on the form. So it was misposted. The last comment was from me.

    As i said before, “Gonzo” has left the office for the day.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    If reading this site made him ill, he has deeper issues than that of political disagreement.

    I hope he gets well soon.

  • TechGuy

    no Jelliel , his condition is an older, chronic one that comes as attacks. Something from his time in the military, possibly earlier, I don’t know. I do know it is aggravated by stress, which is unusual since he is one of the calmest and least stressed out people I have ever known.

    I will pass on your hope when next I see him.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Damn, that sounds harsh. Hope all goes well.

  • MCH

    Gonzo is certainly not the first person Nalle and Marsh have chased away from BC, and I’m sure he won’t be the last. It’s too bad though, I appreciated his insiteful contributuons. And since he was a fellow vet, it was always nice to hear Gonz’s take on military matters.

  • Dave Nalle

    TechGuy, you may be misreading some of what you see here.

    Sparring with Gonzo doesn’t mean that we have anything against him even when we disagree. He’s one of my favorite and most respected participants here, and I imagine many others share that view. I have always assumed that he understands how much we like and respect him. I know I’ve said as much directly to him before.

    Please pass on our sympathy and support to him.

    Dave

  • gonzo marx

    TechGuy is a bit overprotective …but a very good person

    the “message” is received, but still the Knight of Mirrors has defeated Quixote

    i owe a last Article at the very least

    just tying up loose ends, i feel obligated to those who have enjoyed my rantings

  • Joey

    J3, — “Nice work Joey. The GOP should hire you for their Character Assasination Department. You have potential”

    I would chose to work for a living — so I’m staying out of politics.

    “Still the admin played ignorance when the MSM was already on site. And a SAR team from VANCOUVER as in Vancouver CANADA was on site one day before the storm hit”

    Oh really, define on site. Maybe 150 to 200 away from projected landfall would be a bit more accurate. So was the Coast Guard. Who along with the Air National Guard were on scene the first available moment plucking 30,000 out of the area in the weeks that followed. But all by air.

    Why by air? Because all roads were trashed with mega tons of debris, from houses to ships, to fishing trawlers to cars to….

    “You can defend your divinely led master as you wish, but in the end, he’s still an incompetent fool”

    WTF are you blathering here…. Bush gets briefed with the rest of the admin pogues. The responders sort things out. Brown was an idiot, that’s why Admiral Allen was brought in, to straighten out the morass created by FEMA (who were created by Carter, and have NEVER been adept at anything).

    I spent a month down there cutting wood and bringing power from 150 miles out… back into the region.

    Imagine looking at a photograph of the Grand Canyon, now imagine actually going there. Would you notice things on a grander scale? That’s the difference between typing horse hooey and actually getting of your duff and responding to the actual area. It was as big as the Grande Canyon dude…. it STILL is a mess.

    Did you know that in Gulf Port all the houses along the Gulf and up to 10 miles inland were hit with a 36 foot surge and carried all flotsam inland 10 miles and dumped it right on the Interstate. Try drivin’ your 4×4 through that. Impossible… that’s responding. You have to beat your way back into the zone to respond (unless your flying like the CG and ANG). So, having that first hand experience under my belt, I can say with authority, that you are full of it.

  • Joey

    comment #138 “I am babbling about comment 131, and the health of a co-worker who writes on this website. Many of us here at work have taken to reading this website because he writes here.”

    Let me get this straight. Your company/managers/supervisors allow you to BS at work on their time, on their bandwidth?

    Wow. My company would fire your butts in a millisecond. Cushy job. With benefits.

    Now… I don’t want to here another peep outta’ GM concerning fraud, waste and abuse in any sector.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Joey, you’re being a dick. Just because he’s allowed Inet and your not is no reason to attack him. Keep it civilised

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    As for VUSAR, BC’s own Jewels Richardson had a bit on it

    HERE IT IS

  • Joey

    We’ve got bandwidth, and net nanny, St. Bernard and probably echleon.

    The copiers may even have a chip sending digital images to the CIA.

    I’ve seen a number of people reprimanded and let go for surfing.

    It’s strictly business where I work… you can check the weather tho’ only if you use the Noaa.gov or NWS sites tho’…. none of this Weather Channel or Intelicast stuff. Nosireee.

    No kidding.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    That’s harsh. I couldn’t go through my day without a little surfing.

  • Joey

    Thanks for the VUSAR, but they didn’t beat the Coast Guard. They were flying in from Mobile at first light.

    Couldn’t drive anywhere… the roads where/are filled with junk.

    When I left they were cutting up a 130′ barge riding high and dry on the interstate. Funny thing was, there wasn’t any water near the site.

    Lot’s big metal boats up on the roads, lots of roads washed out. Responders need infrastucture to bring in the heavy equipement. VUSAR provided a service, but they exhausted their supplies in hours and had to wait while parking lots, wires, and FOD’s were cleared for helo ops, and resupply.

    It was slow going. The immensity of the challenge was historical.

    The CG was running in and out of mobile, a constant chain of Jayhawks… 24/7. Again I think the numbers the CG racked up was 33,000 rescued either by air or small boat.

    I talked with cops who walked into the collisium and were drawing fire from the crowd. Ever been to a professional football game? That’s how big the crowd was. The cops left… because they didn’t want stray shots hitting civilians (and they were).

    There are a lot of armchair quarterbacks out there who really believe they know how difficult responding to Katrina was. They are fooling themselves. If they weren’t there, they have absolutely no idea. Absolutely none. Take it on faith that it was beyond normal idyllic comprehension. I’m and electrician, but I cut wood for 2 weeks straight. We ran out of water, food, gas… all that stuff had to be brought in from 200 miles out (and more).

    Do you know who really helped out? Wal-mart. They had more stuff coming in than anyone.

    Do you know who told the cops to take what they needed, just protect the real estate from arson?

    Wal-mart. The cops took a lot of bad press, but Wal-mart gave them what they could, because the cops were trapped inside the zone, with nothing. Not even toiletries.

    There are so many stories that were not reported. Many people and companies pitched in. The press just distorted everything. We had a guy suffering from heat stroke and needed some help, the press were there filming; did they help? Hell no. We were throwing garbage at the press everytime they showed up after that… Schmucks, everyone one of them. Out for the glory while we’re working are tails off. They are more useless then FEMA. They are like seagulls, fly in – make a lot of noise – crap on everything – leave.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Hey Gonzo if yer still reading, read this.

    I usualy stay out of political discussions to safeguard my sanity. Yeah I know I’m the one who started this shit-storm but I had to butt in this time. But mostly I stay away from politics. So what I’m saying is you don’t have to go away, just stay away from the political aspects. There’s other sections to BC with less brouhaha on politics. Just my 2¢

  • gonzo marx

    to Jeliel….thanks, but politics and culture are all i care about around here…

    to Joey…you know shit about me, or my work….nice try…might i suggest you stick to what you know about, like eating toe jam or sucking the juices from the Shrub’s anus

    just a thought on my way out…

    Excelsior!

  • MCH

    LOL!! re response to Joey.

    Gonna miss ya, Gonz.

  • RogerMDillon

    “thanks, but politics and culture are all i care about around here…”

    Gonzo, you forgot Rush and Tool.

  • troll

    gonzo – re #145

    unhorsed and with no second…forced to retire from the field – ?

    your #22 here is a clear Rx for a good and decent life – thanks for a job well done…’all that was owed’s been repaid’

    troll

    ps – if I were you I’d head for Schoodic Point and there contemplate inevitability

  • TechGuy

    to Roger….i didn’t forget, file those two and Motorhead under “Culture”

    to troll…my Brother of the Mind…it would be for you and a few others that i may decie to stick around…we will see, i do have much to ponder…but the coastal vista is not needed for me to visit physically…the Sea is always with me

    existential angst of middle age, and the Question….do i continue Conflict in this medium to replace the physical activities of my biker/bouncer past as John Spivey had so astutely intimated once…or am i trying to Teach and live up to being “Annointed” as Shark once said?

    and does it truly matter in the end as the phosphor glow fades into nothingness as the next page is clicked?

    Excelsior?

  • gonzo marx

    dammitall…TechGuy left my computer set for him…lol

    my bad for not checking…the above is from yours truly…TechGuy refuses to read this site anymore…

    but i digress

  • http://www.themole.net themole

    Malkins ; I AM NOT AFRAID OF YOU”

    Bwahahaha… right.


    “I am now forced to remove one of my children from school and move my family,” Malkin wrote Thursday in an e-mail to the Sentinel.

    When we saw her ‘I Am Not Afraid of You entry, we knew right away she was referring to us. She even emailed us yesterday [Friday, April 21] asking us to take the info down.; Even with that, however, it was particularly quiet in regards to her information until this week. We will not take any of it down as doing so will go against our mission to document as much as we can, but we will stress that in no way will we encourage any criminal acts or violence to happen behind anything we put on our site.

  • Dave Nalle

    These people really ought to be arrested for posting her personal information and encoruaging terroristic acts against her family. It shows how low the extremists of the left can stoop that they take a manufactured incident like this where all she did was share public information originally disseminated by the students themselves, and use it as the basis for this sort of persecution.

    Dave

  • Joey

    You were in the Navy, you live in Maine and you were attached to subs.

    What else you got?

  • MCH

    …and he knows you enjoy eating your toe-jam…

  • gonzo marx

    and i never was on a sub…

    thanks for playing

  • Joey

    Ain’t nothin’ sacred?!?!

    GM’s not going anywhere. Enjoy a JD and coke… or 6 and seeya later.

  • gonzo marx

    wrong again…i don’t drink…and i’m pretty much done after i post a final Article

    this is just tying up loose ends

  • Joey

    But you were squid. Once a squid, always a squid.

  • Joey

    “wrong again…i don’t drink…and i’m pretty much done after i post a final Article

    this is just tying up loose ends” — GM

    AMF!

  • Dave Nalle

    Will be sorry to see you go, gonzo. I hate to see someone with principles give up the good fight, even when we don’t always see eye to eye.

    Dave

  • RogerMDillon

    Of course, Gonzo is understandably frustrated by this circle jerk that passes for enlightened discourse around here. Step away for a month and you’ll see it’s the same old tired cliches being thrown around. No different than the Pretty Ricky or B5 threads although the spelling is slightly better. It’s amazing he was able to put up with it as long he did.

    “The extremists of the left” did the same thing that Malkin did, Nalle, so quit your biased belly-aching. They both took personal information that anyone could access and made it available to the masses. A few people cross the line of decency and neither one is willing to take responsilbilty.

    I have no pity for Malkin and her family since she started this whole mess. She shouldn’t use such tactics if she doesn’t want them used on her. She refused to take the students info down when they complained of death threats, yet expected her enemies to do the same for her.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Roger, I’ll agree that the entire situation is regrettable. Perhaps we should focus the blame on those people who took advantage of the information to threaten innocents, rather than those who merely pointed out where some information was already publicly available. It’s the psychos and the stalkers who are the problem more than Malkin or the lefties who gave her a taste of her own medicine.

    Dave

  • MCH

    “But you were squid. Once a squid, always a squid.”
    – Joey

    Like that’s a bad thing?

  • RogerMDillon

    “It’s the psychos and the stalkers who are the problem more than Malkin or the lefties who gave her a taste of her own medicine.”

    Agreed, Dave. The bums on both sides of the aisle who would threaten and intimidate people they disagree with should be investigated by the authorities and prosecuted if need be.

    However, I don’t think we should overlook all who are culpable just because some were more outrageous. Even if we give Malkin the benefit of the doubt, she still refused to remove the information after knowing full well the threats that were being made against the students. That, to me, makes her an accomplice.

    Those on the left crossed a line and should not have brought her family in to it, but if putting Malkin in a similar situation will make her think twice next time she sinks so low to tackle those she disagrees with, then I can’t honestly say that I’m entirely against what the website did.

  • gonzo marx

    for Dave in #169 who sez…
    *I hate to see someone with principles give up the good fight, even when we don’t always see eye to eye.*

    the problem i have is there is NO “good fight”

    no one is convinced, the Wheel turns yet moves nowhere

    so for all the words i spew, nothing is heard save by those who already Know…

    fruitless, pointless , bickering and noise

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I hear you, gonzo. I bet others do too. The problem in this sort of forum is that quite often we only respond to those we disagree with, or focus on those points where we have a bone of contention. The result is that no one ever tells us that they agree, only that they disagree, so it’s all hammering and yammering endlessly with little sense of accord.

    I believe that you and I actually agree on a great many fundamental issues, but we still spend most of our time arguing over those few issues and perspectives on issues where we don’t agree and leave the points of agreement largely unremarked. It would probably make for more civil discourse if all of us stopped once in a while and prefaced our arguments with “I agree with you here, here and here” before we got to the inevitable “but…”.

    Dave

  • http://chantalstone.blogspot.com chantal stone

    Dave….I agree ;)

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    ven if we give Malkin the benefit of the doubt, she still refused to remove the information after knowing full well the threats that were being made against the students. That, to me, makes her an accomplice.

    To me that suggests that she’s got strong principles and sticks by them. She saw what the students did to be grossly offensive and responded to that in a way which wasn’t entirely unreasonable because they themselves had made that information public. And she stuck by her guns and to some degree I think that’s admirable.

    Those on the left crossed a line and should not have brought her family in to it, but if putting Malkin in a similar situation will make her think twice next time she sinks so low to tackle those she disagrees with, then I can’t honestly say that I’m entirely against what the website did.

    But I don’t want her to have to think twice. We need people who are willing to call out the political opposition and hold them accountable without fear of violent reprisals. To silence Malkin by intimidation sends the worst possible message that bullying bloggers and reporters is okay, and that no one should ever say anything negative for fear of violence. That’s a terrible outcome even if you disagree with Malkin, because next time it will be Paul Krugman or some other opinion maker of the left who gets threatened into silence.

    People should be able to stand up for what they believe in without fear of reprisals, even when most of us don’t agree with them.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Dave, you think Wacky Malkin has principle? Perhaps. But there just the wrong ones. Malkin can only point fingers at what she perceives to be THE LEFT and then call them names and ridicule them. She’s never even heard what the left had to say, she doesnt want to. Even if they would be on her side fr something, she’d still drag them down.

    And her publishing the numbers and keeping them after the threats began on the students, is proof that she’s on her own personal Jihad, not calling anything out.

    Only the conservatives would think it’s justifiable to endanger the lives of students for political gain. I remember once in Ohio something about tin soldiers and Nixon…. mmmmmmm

  • troll

    *the problem i have is there is NO “good fight”

    no one is convinced, the Wheel turns yet moves nowhere

    so for all the words i spew, nothing is heard save by those who already Know…

    fruitless, pointless , bickering and noise*

    given that I’m crazy but I’ve changed and refined my views on many topics through participating here and doing the background work required to follow the Conversation…and I’ve had many good laughs along the way

    I rather enjoy the FPBN coating of the underlying process…beats the hell out of graduate seminars I attended as a young troll

    and gonzo like I keep telling ya – your position as a ‘teacher’ already is assured here (just ask Mr Marsh for one)…your certificate of tenure is in the mail

    lastly in case we forget – new eager readers/thinkers/writers arrive all the time

    fresh meat – !

    troll

  • gonzo marx

    aarRRRrrrRRRggGGGhHHHhh!

    troll…why do you have to keep being so sensible and reminding me that decision making while under the influence of blinding Pain is not the best course of action..

    both you and Mr Nalle in #175 give me much to think about…and my heartfelt Thanks to you both and others who have made such points so clearly

    i’ll try and wait till the Episodic Agony passes, and when more clear headed….attempt the “this i believe” Article promised to a certain troll a while ago…

    after that…we will see…

    fair enuff?

    Excelsior?

  • Maurice

    Yes. Mr. Nalle #175 nailed it.

  • RogerMDillon

    Nalle, you just don’t seem to get it and I can’t tell whether you are being intentionally dense or not.

    Malkin and the left wing website behaved in the exact same manner. When Malkin does it, it’s admirable to you, but when the left-wingers do it, it’s intimidation. Malkin was attempting to get her minions to silence the students by intimidation, which was made apparent when she didn’t care that her actions resulted in death threats.

    Hold everyone to the same standards and people might take you seriously.

  • Eric Olsen

    my thinking on the matter centers around Michelle being creepy

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Roger, you nailed it big time.

    Eric, yes she is kinda creepy

  • Dan

    Michelle Malkin is very cute, articulate, and motivated. The word “creepy” doesn’t even belong in the same hemisphere with MM.

    I’m betting those death threats against the moronic students were a hoax. We all know how liberals like to mix their aggression with lots of faked victimization.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Roger, you might want to read a bit more closely. There’s a sequence of events here, and although I don’t support the eye for an eye theory, it’s what is operating in this instance.

    Phase 1: Extremist students commit gross offense against veterans acting as military recruiters. (this is the genesis of the whole problem)

    Phase 2: Malking publicizes the contact info which student organizers provided for recruiting purposes to elicit negative feedback for them. (perfectly reasonable thing to do)

    Phase 3: Several radical hate websites release Malkin’s personal info which she never made public herself accompanied by statements suggesting harassment. (far more of an intrusion than what Malkin did).

    That’s the blow by blow. It started with an attack from the left, was responded to with a mild counter from Malkin and concluded with an excessive reaction from even more radical left elements.

    This is an absolutely classic example of the willingness of some on the left to go to extreme lengths to silence any opinion they don’t agree with. It starts with an attempt to silence those who support the troops and ends with an attempt to silence Malkin for pointing out their oppressive tactics.

    This new McCarthyism is going to get worse and worse and this is just the beginning. I’ve recently read some incredibly disturbing personal accounts of how rallies and other events from some of these activist groups are run. It’s very scary stuff, straight out of the communist revolutionary movements of the previous century. I plan to post more on it soon.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    HOLY CRAP! Nalle what are you smokin’ ?

    It’s more like

    1. Student Protest gets out of hand, no doubt.
    2. Malkin publishes personal info and then refuses to remove the info
    3. Malkin Hater publishes her personal info

    If Malkin is so principled, she should not have done this, no matter what the students have done. The thing with principled ethics is that they APPLY TO EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE NO EXCEPTIONS

    See how I didn’t turn this into a conspiracy about the right? Get a grip on the facts or at least quit embelishing them to your liking so that it portrays the image you want to give it. It’s weak, it’s spin, it’s so foxnewsian

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Michelle Malkin is very cute, articulate, and motivated. The word “creepy” doesn’t even belong in the same hemisphere with MM.
    malkin.jpg

    Right, she’s a purty little thang… NOT

  • Dan

    Jeliel, your presuming that *RE* publishing a press-release is somehow, even slightly, wrong.

    You must really be entrenched in the bowels of liberalism to have an un-flattering photo of MM at your disposal.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Oh Dan I was just poking fun.

    Besides, what’s her name, the Wacky One and her sidekick, the Political Teen (Now called Exposing the Left) are always hounding MSM for showing unflattering pictures of those on the right while the magical Duo the exact same thing they try to shame the MSM for doing.

    Another aspect of Wacky Malkin’s screwed up principles.

  • Dan

    Here’s the lesson for the student morons:

    If your going to do things that have a high likelyhood of provoking anger, don’t send out a press release with your personal info.

    More power to them though if they were to stand up for their actions.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Oh and YES it’s wrong because it doesn’t take an idiot to understand her intent behind this action. Just reading her blog on a regular basis is proof that this is just the kind of stunt she’d pull.

  • Dan

    Yep, your right, she’s more politically savvy than they are, they screwed up, and she hammered ‘em. It’s kind of dirty.

    But

    She’s been hit pretty hard before too. Remember the Chris Matthews/ hardball interview? She got raped. She’s pissed and she deserves to be. Those self-important, pretentious student activists need to get a shot across the bow to see if they’ve got the heart for being a zealot.
    They brought it on with their stupidity.

    And like I said before, they’re probably faking the death threats. MM is probably faking her exposure to danger too. But she didn’t start the fake victimization.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Jeliel, your description of the sequence of events in #187 is essentially the same as mine in #186. The only difference being that you draw different conclusions from the same events.

    You think that the principled response would be to overlook student outrages. Others might think it more principled to oppose them. Calling Malkin unprincipled because her principles led her to a more proactive position is merely your opinion and not one everyone would share.

    Dave

  • RogerMDillon

    What a shock! Nalle continues to spin rather than letting go of an arguemet he lost. You left out pieces of information from the phases, but I have long given up on you engaging in honest dialogue, especially when it doesn’t help your cause.

    The students put their info on the press release for the media to contact them, not as a recruiting tool. Yes, posting their info was a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and no one is arguing that, but once she got wind of the death threats, she did nothing. That’s principles for you!

    The left wing group took public information about Malkin and posted it. They suggested intimidation; Malkin implied it. No difference except in the minds of the deluded.

    This is an absolutely classic example of the willingness of Nalle to decry the actions of the left while praising those same actions when they are committed by the right. His hypocrisy turns my stomach.

    Dan, Malkin didn’t get raped on Hardball. She got schooled. She tried spreading lies without having all the parts of her story straight. Matthews quickly exposed her b.s. and what a pathtic hack she is. Boo hoo. Of course, she ran back to the safety of Fox where they hold your hand while you learn to gossipmonger against the left and your enemies.

  • Dan

    It doesn’t matter what reason the students put their info out. By doing it, they took public responsibility for their actions.

    And no, Chris Mathews damned himself to Hell, for his mis-deads that night. His people even altered the transcript. I was skeptical at first, but I read it and listened to it simultaneously…and he raped us. He raped all of us.

    Why would a man turn to dishonesty. Why should it matter. What is, is. Why fight it.

  • Dave Nalle

    Roger, I took great pains not to praise EITHER side in this argument. I think what both of them did was somewhat uncalled for, and I think that the real problem is the behavior of those who made the threats.

    What you are doing here is spinning my comments to suit your desire to misrepresent me as being unreasonable, rather than admitting that the fault does not lie with Malkin, but wiht the threat mongering extremists who you are apparently defending.

    Dave

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Nalle you did praise one side, by using the adjectives you did.

    Please stop thinking you are smarter than the rest of us because in the end it makes you look foolish.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Can annyone point me to a download pointer for the hardball video of Malkin being taken to the learning tree? oh please please please.

    (I wonder if it’ll fill me with joy as when Coulter got schooled and humiliated by the CBC last year)

  • Bliffle

    I’ve signed petitions with my name and address, as required for voter verification, but I didn’t do it to attract hate mail. Is it maintained that giving my name and address was an invitation?

  • RogerMDillon

    “To me that suggests that she’s got strong principles and sticks by them…And she stuck by her guns and to some degree I think that’s admirable.”

    So “strong principles” and being “admirable” isn’t praise? You have quite the odd dictionary.

    I’m not trying to spin you into being unreasonable. I don’t have to. You do that well enough on your own as many people on this site can attest to.

    I have more than once said the extremists ON BOTH SIDES crossed a line. Unlike you, I hold both to the same standard. Your perception of what I have said in the comments is wrong as your perceptions usually are. My issue with Malkin was her lack of care for the threats her actions caused. I am fine with her posting their info, but once she heard about the threats, she could have removed the info, but she had no problem with the students being intimidated.

    Dan, if making a person accountable for rumor-mongering sends them to hell, then sign me up (even though there’s no such place). You also should stop throwing the word “rape” around because you have no idea what it means and it’s an insult to those who have been.

  • Joey

    Dave,
    I’ve been out for a bit…. thanks for reeling the Gonz back in (I think). I tried to insult him back to life, but he’s too salty for that. Anyway… to Gonzo et al, Hope to see you soon dude. We share a lot more history than you may think.

    J

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I’ve signed petitions with my name and address, as required for voter verification, but I didn’t do it to attract hate mail. Is it maintained that giving my name and address was an invitation?

    I believe it wasn’t petition signers she outed, but the organizers of the rally who had provided their contact info so people could get hold of them for more information or to join their group. Not at all the same thing.

    So “strong principles” and being “admirable” isn’t praise? You have quite the odd dictionary.

    Roger, that’s praise, but I didn’t say the other side didn’t also have strong principles which were admirable. Everyone here is acting on their principles and has to be admired for following them through to the bitter end. But some of them are still idiots and psychos.

    Dave

  • Dan

    My last comment here has gone missing. Why is that?

  • MCH

    “Nalle you did praise one side, by using the adjectives you did. Please stop thinking you are smarter than the rest of us because in the end it makes you look foolish.”

    At least he’s moved past his original tactics, JELIEL3, of calling anyone who disagreed with him a “moron” or a “dumbass”…but only after BC promoted him to an editor…

  • Dan

    “Everyone here is acting on their principles and has to be admired”

    SAW is to principles, as turd is to punch-bowl.

    Roger, if you think what Matthews did to Malkin was “making a person accountable for rumor-mongering” You’re just ignorant, and there’s probably not much can be done for you.

    I also understand what “rape” means. Same with “hyperbole”. Although, if you were to listen to the audio transcript with your eyes closed, it wouldn’t be difficult to imagine “mad-dog” Mathews on top of her, veins bulging, one hand on her throat, the other ripping her clothes.

    The word “rape” as a hyperbolic tool is harsh, but it, and other similar excesses aren’t all that uncommon around here. If you were to take your sensitiviy lecture series patrolling BC archives, you would have your work cut out for you.

    Of course, I could be made to feel pretty bad, and have a quick apology, for any actual rape victims who actually were offended.

  • RogerMDillon

    Dan, if Michelle is such a frail flower that she can’t stand up to people who make her accountable for the lies she attempts to spread, then she should stay on Fox. “Boo hoo. I tried spreading a malicious rumor and couldn’t back it up.”

    I saw the incident when it happened, so I wouldn’t have the rape fantasy you describe while listening to it although I can imagine you pleasuring yourself to the graphic detail. You obviously have other issues and really need to see a therapist soon before you act on them.

    Will you also have a quick apology for those offended by your stupidity?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    “Everyone here is acting on their principles and has to be admired”

    SAW is to principles, as turd is to punch-bowl.

    Like I said, some of them are idiots and psychos and are acting with great and admirable honesty on the principles of their fanaticism.

    Dave

  • Dan

    “Will you also have a quick apology for those offended by your stupidity?”

    I don’t extend my sensitivity to the moronic.

    Michelle isn’t a frail flower, that’s why she gets under your skin. Her so called “malicious rumor” of J. Kerry’s mysterious butt wound, was documented by credible sources at the scene. It was somewhat substantiated by Kerry’s avoidance of the issue. “Mad dog’s” failure to distiguish “self inflicted” from “shot himself on purpose” only underscores his stupidity. It’s not holding her “accountable” for anything.

    I’m also thinking that if a description of a rape causes you to think of someone “pleasuring” themselves, perhaps psychiatric council would be in order for you as well.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    But despite all these arguments, can someone point me to the videos of the Matthews vs Malkin smackdown? I couldn’t find any the other day…