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McCain Campaign Worker Attacked and Brutalized Over Bumper Sticker

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In an incident which seems like it epitomizes much of the anger and bitterness of this election season, a McCain campaign worker from College Station, Texas who was in Pittsburgh helping to work a phone bank was robbed and then attacked, brutalized, and disfigured in what appears to be a politically motivated hate crime.

According to a report from television station KDKA, on Wednesday night, 20-year-old Ashley Todd was robbed at knifepoint at an ATM near the Republican phone bank where she had been making calls on behalf of the McCain campaign. After taking $60 from her, the robber noticed the McCain bumper sticker on her car and became enraged. The man hit her in the back of the head, knocked her to the ground and began punching and kicking her. He threatened her with the knife at her throat, finally carving a letter “B” in her cheek. During the attack he reportedly shouted “you are one of those McCain people,” making the political motivation of the attack clear. The attacker was described as African-American and about 6′ 4″ tall with a medium build.

ashleytoddBoth John McCain and Sarah Palin have called Ms. Todd with their sympathies and support. A spokeswoman for the Obama campaign in Pittsburgh said that they “hope that the person who perpetrated this crime is swiftly apprehended and brought to justice.”

Todd is one of 50 college Republicans working for the McCain campaign and is maintaining a blog of her experiences on the campaign trail. The picture to the right appears to be her based on photos from her blog and shows her with a backwards “B” on her cheek and a black eye. Its provenance is unknown.

In response to claims from pro-Obama bloggers that the story is fabricated and that she mutilated herself, Todd has offered to take a lie-detector test administered by the police. Police will also be viewing ATM video footage to verify her report and attempt to identify the attacker.

Since this story was published Ashley Todd has admitted the attack was a hoax and further details have come out. For a followup and commentary see my followup article – DN

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About Dave Nalle

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    I’ve said it every time I’ve seen that picture tonight.

    Why the hell is the ‘B’ backwards?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I am not going to question her story at this point. She lives not far from here and she’s an aggie and aggies are too dumb to lie.

    However, in addition to being backwards, the B doesn’t look like it was done with a knife, but rather with a pen or other pointed non-bladed object.

    That said, if this story is even partly true – and we’ve got no evidence to contradict it at this point – it confirms everything I’ve observed elsewhere about the fanaticism of Obama supporters.

    When my daughter comes home from school and admits that she’s afraid to tell anyone her mother supports McCain, that worries me.

    Dave

  • john

    It’s easy to get a backwards B on your face… if you draw it on there yourself while looking in a mirror.

    That’s just one possibility. Another is the attacker had her on the ground and did it from above her over her head. Of course this means he was not in a position to hold her down while he carefully carved a B on her face, so she would have to keep still.

    Why he spent time making a B when an O would have been quicker, who knows… ???

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Oh I’m not questioning the story at this point. It just bugs me is all. My penmanship to draw a backwards letter wouldn’t be nearly as neat as however that ‘B’ got there.

  • Will

    1. The ‘B’ is backwards, as if she did it in the mirror.

    2. The ‘B’ is so dull that it looks as if it were slightly scratched, NOT with a 5 inch knife.

    3. There’s no swelling on the left eye.

    4. She drove an extra several miles to save $1.50 on ATM fees, only to use another ATM anyway.

    5. It’s a well-populated, well lit suburban area and a safe one to boot, and NO ONE is confirming it.

    5. It’s a 38-degree night, and someone is wearing a tank top?

    6. Conservative pundits like Michelle Malkin are calling foul.

    7. She didn’t ask to go to a hospital located 3 miles away.

    8. Conveniently, the incident was just out of the view of ATM cameras.

    9. ‘B’ was carved. ‘O’ is easier and more identifiable with Obama.

    10. The mugger apparently knew it was her because of her bumper sticker. First off, there were several cars there. Secondly, she didn’t tell police this when she first spoke to them.

    I don’t believe this for a second.

  • Sarah

    This is so fake. It’s not carved or swollen, she scratched it herself in the mirror, forgetting to reverse the image so it’s backwards. Her eye makeup is running and the eye isn’t red or swollen at all. I’d love to see the ATM footage before they send this crazy girl to jail.

  • lisam

    I want to believe this young woman is telling the truth. I’m an Obama supporter and I still want to believe she is telling the truth. If she’s lying, she’s either acutely mentally ill, or she’s morally bankrupt.
    The trouble is, I saw the photograph, and I can’t believe she is telling the truth. Black eyes don’t look like that, especially fresh black eyes. If the photograph was taken within hours of the attack, the more injured eye should show a great deal more swelling. Both of her eyes look a little puffy, as if she weren’t getting enough sleep, but neither eye shows the kind of swelling I would expect with a black eye. An injured eye usually swells shut–both eyes are beautifully wide open in the photograph. The color isn’t right, either. Early on in a black eye, the swelling should be red-to-purple, not gray. It isn’t the lighting, because other areas of her skin are a normal pink. The conjunctiva (inner eyelids) and sclera (white parts) of the more injured eye should also show significant redness–they don’t.
    As for the “B” carved into her cheek, either her alleged assailant had a very dull knife, had a very light touch, or she did it herself, perhaps with a toothpick or the tine of a fork. There won’t be any scarring, and it looked like there might not even be any scabbing. I would expect some nutcase with a knife to hold her face quite forcefully to carve a letter on her cheek, so I have to ask why there aren’t any red or purpling finger marks on her chin, jaw or throat.

    I can only hope the security cameras show something to prove that this young woman is NOT lying. Unfortunately, I don’t think that will be the case.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Damn, I wish I hadn’t seen the comments (in my editing capacity) before reading this. Now I’ve no idea if I’m being objective. Nevertheless…

    Spend enough time being interested in politics or crime and sooner or later you realize that the little light that flashes on and off every so often in the corner of your mind has the word BULLSHIT! stenciled onto it.

    The light’s been flashing more and more often the closer we get to November 4th.

    Quite apart from the fact that the details of the alleged assault all seem so pat (the darkened parking lot, the 6’4″ black man*, the unconvincing dialog), the backwards B, as many have already observed, is the oddest detail. Way back in the early Bronze Age before digital cameras, that would have been easy to explain away – someone just accidentally flipped the negative. Nowadays, although digital photos can be flipped, it’s not something that’s easy to do just by accident.

    That said, I’m fine with giving her the benefit of the doubt for now: if she really is dumb enough to take a lie detector test, we’ll know one way or the other before long whether she’s been spinning us a yarn.

    Oh, one final thing: if anyone might be hoping that this is the October Surprise – it isn’t.

    * Sound familiar?

  • Cannonshop

    Michelle Malkin thinks she’s faking it, and given Ms Malkin’s general dim view of Obama supporters, that’s kind of a red flag. OTOH, ATM’s have these neat devices called “Cameras”. Confirming the event (for the Police) shouldn’t be too difficult, so there’s the possibility that some, most, or all of the girl’s story is correct.

    There’s also the possibility that some, most, or all of the girl’s story is utter and total bullshit.

    We’ll know for certain if it goes to trial, (and if anyone bothers to cover said trial) but that won’t be for months if ever.

    The awful part of this, is that it’s so easy to believe until you look at the photo, and only then is there doubt raised.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    BTW, if she took that picture herself, looking in a mirror and holding the camera off to the side and then cropping the camera out – which is entirely possible – then the B is in her LEFT cheek, not her right cheek and faces the proper direction if someone else had cut it in her face.

    What really starts to trouble me here is how fast we got a large number of posts from people eager to dispute her claim with no evidence to back them up and no willingness to give her the benefit of the doubt. It’s part of the same hate that might have motivated this crime.

    Dave

  • Patrick

    The is B is backwards! Unless you are looking into a mirror and etching it on yourself! This will be exposed as a scam. I work in an ED and witness many “cuts.” That superficial abrasion looks gently applied, and she would have to have remained completely still during the episode. Keep the public updated on this one! I smell a lie! Look at the eye, have you ever been punched by a 6’4″ 200# man…you would look much worse my friends. I live in this area, and I just drove down this street approx 9pm. Very, very crowded!

  • sus

    I read police are looking at surveillance cameras from neighboring businesses. I don’t know. If I was in a strange city, I don’t think I’d go looking for an ATM to save a few bucks? And, twitter while I’m driving in a strange city? Not get medical treatment until next day? Maybe the other cameras will provide the information. But, I just don’t know about this story.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    The awful part of this, is that it’s so easy to believe until you look at the photo, and only then is there doubt raised.

    Why would one doubt it, Cannon? When you read an account of a mugging in the local paper, you don’t doubt that it actually happened.

    Dave makes a good point that the backwards B could be explained if she took the photo herself in the mirror. The only problem with this is an apparent statement by the responding officer that he saw the cut/mark on her right cheek, and the mirror theory would place it on her left.

    No doubt there will swiftly be a bevy of photographic experts rendering their verdicts that it was indeed, and was not, taken into a mirror.

    This wouldn’t have gotten all the attention but for the political aspect. Is it a coincidence that the incident happened in Pennsylvania – the state John McCain is now betting the farm on?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    As for the medical attention thing, I once got stabbed in the cheek – all the way right through. It didn’t bleed and I didn’t go to the hospital. I still have a half-inch scar to this day, though.

    Point being that sometimes people don’t actually think clearly when they get in a situation like this.

    Dave

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “What really starts to trouble me here is how fast we got a large number of posts from people eager to dispute her claim with no evidence to back them up”

    That’s a riot coming from someone who doesn’t even know “if this story is even partly true.”

    “if she took that picture herself,”

    Nice try on defending the photo. Considering her hair parts the same way as it does in her other pics on her blog, it’s not likely she took it in a mirror unless she changed her hairstyle recently, so the “B” would be backwards.

    And what exactly is up with her twittering?

    Stubbornly searching for a bank of america to avoid ATM fees. Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:23:21

    then 20 minutes later she let’s everyone know

    Pretty sure I’m on the wrong side of pittsburgh
    Thu, 23 Oct 2008 00:45:59

    proceeds to get out and use an ATM anyway and as luck would have it a black man robs her, goes to leave, sees the McCain sticker, and then comes back to etch a backwards ‘B’.

    “It’s part of the same hate that might have motivated this crime.”

    What a load of crap. If you don’t find this story suspicious from the evidence so far, you need to get your critical reasoning skills checked.

    btw, I love how people are jumping to the presumption that this was an Obama supporter because it was a black guy. From all that has been reported he could be a Baldwin supporter.

    Psst, your bias is showing.

  • RonPaulin08

    It’s not just that the “B” is backwards, and too “neat.” That’s not a knife cut. WAY too rounded, and it looks like the skin wasn’t even broken. Seriously, try to make a cut like that with a blade on a still object, never mind imagining someone resisting and moving. Ridiculous on the face of it. And I’m not an Obama supporter.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    From the Pittsburgh Tribune Review:

    Police planned to administer a polygraph test to Ashley Todd, 20, because her statements about the attack conflict with evidence from the Citizens Bank ATM where she claims the incident occurred, police said.

  • Cannonshop

    Well, not that it matters, but it looks like Ms. Malkin (that’d be “Satan’s mistress” in Alex Jones Speak) was right again, and this is a fabricated event.

    Too bad, it casts aspersions on REAL Events, and will have the opposite impact to what the young lady no doubt intended-I expect a ‘sympathy bounce’ that will solidify Obama’s lead and help bury real incidents of intimidation, fraud, and abuse.

    The girl needs a gibbslap.

  • NoWay

    Just another McCain campaign screw up. Couldn’t they at least have had the intelligence to provide this girl some help with the B?

    The whole thing is disgusting.

    And the way the robo-McCains across the internet have all started screaming about how evil and violent all Obama supporters are.

    Even if this incident were true… it is ONE INCIDENT. To paint all 200 Million Obama supporter with the same brush is absurd.

  • bobbiewick

    Why does anybody even listen to pro-Obama bloggers? Anybody reading what they write on Huffington Post knows the level of sheer hate and ignorance that they spew. An attack of this kind is not surprising. The only thing that’s surprising is that it hasn’t happened more often.

  • http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/2665/toddsj6.jpg stickdog

    Click on the link provided!

    Does that “B” look like something an angry, vicious 6’4″ mugger carved on someone’s face last night with a knife? Why is the “B” backward? How did the mugger get Todd to remain still long enough to delicately scratch a nicely formed, well-curved “B” onto her face? Why aren’t Todd’s “black eyes” still red and swollen?

    Why did Todd drive 12 miles into an unfamiliar section of a big city to find an ATM? Why was she conveniently twittering about looking for ATMs in her car right before the “attack”?

    Why did Todd refuse treatment on the night of the “attack”? Why did she instead quickly forward news of the “attack” and a photo of her “injuries” to her right wing blogger pals?

    Where are the other witnesses to the “attack”? Where is the security camera footage of the “attack”?

    Why did the alleged attacker follow her back to her car after she gave him her money? If he wanted something from her car, why didn’t he just demand her keys? If Todd’s McCain bumper sticker enraged her attacker so much that he beat her and then somehow forced her sit still long enough to delicately and lightly scratch a well-formed “B” onto her face, why didn’t he damage her car, take her car, take her keys, take her wallet, take her credit cards or even take her Blackberry? Why didn’t he force her to get more money out of her ATM or give him her ATM code and card if he had enough time to continue assaulting her without any witnesses around and enough power over her to carefully mark her with his knife without her struggling?

    Where is the police artist sketch of the at large suspect? If this “attack” were real, wouldn’t the victim’s primary focus be on locking up the dangerous, violent criminal who violated her before he viciously maims more innocent victims rather than spreading the news of the bizarre McCain/Obama angle of the “attack” as far and wide as possible?

    Bottom line:

    Todd is a College Republican volunteer for the McCain campaign who came all the way from “safe” Texas to try to turn the tide for McCain in swing PA.

    If Todd’s story is real, there is a bizarre, dangerous, violent, dyslexic 6’4″ black Baracko with an Obama fetish and a small dull knife roaming the streets of Pittsburgh’s Little Italy robbing innocent ATM customers and chomping at the bit to delicately trace the mark of Baracko onto the faces of poor unsuspecting McCain supporters.

    If Todd’s story is fake, she’s an amateur hour Rove with the average freeper’s stilted and racially fevered imagination.

    Which is more likely?

  • Cannonshop

    #19 I suppose it could be-an attempt to adopt their opponent’s tactics is likely to be this amatuer. The Left’s been doing this sort of thing for years (and very successfully), they have the organizational chops to pull it off without obvious flaws. I suspect, though, that it’s more a matter of a twenty-year-old desperately seeking attention and sympathy, who probably doesn’t even know which side she SHOULD be on if she wants to use tactics like these.

  • maverick

    True or not, if the situation were reversed, and it was an Obama worker making this claim, I think it would be the lead story on all major news shows and the headline in many newspapers.

  • troll

    (bad taste warning in keeping with the author’s choice of book links)

    …we’ve all heard the story a hundred times – young girl from the country comes to the big city seeking a better life only to get trapped in tragedy on the wrong side of town

    as for the ‘B’…this 7 ft 300 pound Pittsburgh black man could be nothing other than a pimp marking his stable with the coke-spoon fingernail of his right pinkie and the meaning of the letter is obvious

    (or perhaps he is a basketball player and this relationship has some sordid history)

  • rory

    We’ll see how this story developes. One thing’s for certain.

    That is not a real black eye.

    I’ve seen black eyes.

    They’re red/purple for starters. Then the swelling is actually more dramatic than the coloring. Also, they’re not regular. They have edges and dark spots.

    What she has is some dark eyeshadow.

    I don’t know about the rest of the story, but if she faked the black eye….

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    The report on the lie-detector test, it was reported, revealed “inconsistencies” in the young woman’s story. So far, authorities haven’t said more than that.

    But. All you McCainiacs should be wary of dull knife bearing Obama backers roaming the streets just looking for you to carve an epitaph on the McCain campaign into your cheeks.

    B

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Anyonw remember Susan Smith?

  • Cory

    This is absolute BS of the highest caliber and I hope this disgusting cow is prosecuted for this blatant, shameful hoax.

  • Mark

    Has anyone here ever considered that the attacker carved the “B” on her face while she was on the ground from above her head??? Thus the reason for it being upside down, DAAH!

  • Anna Creech

    Man, the McCain campaign is pulling out the stops to make people afraid to vote for Obama. This is what happens when you can’t win on your own merit.

  • Lee Richards

    #2: Dave is really losing it now:

    “This confirms… the fanatacism of Obama supporters.”

    Like Colin Powell?

    Even if it really happened, it confirms nothing about the tens of millions of good, thoughtful and honorable Americans who support Obama.

    Your statement is shameful stereotyping, with more than a hint of an appeal to fear and prejudice. You libel and demonize others you don’t even know with an indecent disregard for their right to think differently than you do.

    And if it REALLY did happen, the victim is indeed fortuante that the attacker was not a rapist who got her pregnant, since Palin’s Rapist Progeny Protection Doctrine would leave the young lady completely out of luck as far as terminating the pregnancy was concerned.

  • http://www.notmymothersblog.com Deb

    @#23 – let’s see.. 58 year old Obama canvasser beaten by McCain supporter – you’ll only find the news on the Wisconsin news sites. Obama’s camp declined to make a comment on the incident. so much for that theory.

  • lLumpy

    wow. the hate here is palpable. I bet some of u would like to carve an O on her other cheek to go with the B.

  • MADEBOXER

    My problem with this is the same as the police.
    1. She did not mention the political angle when she initially talked with police.

    2. She waited 45 minutes after the alleged attack before calling to police

    3. She didn’t seem to stressed out to go immediately to the hospital, instead going to a friend’s house

    4. She supposedly went to a hospital after refusing medical attention when filing the report

    5. She has now escalated her story to include sexual assault

    6. No witnesses, not evidence, not even a paper from the hospital she claimed she finally sought help from…. nothing

    Is this a misguided attempt to help McCain?

    She is appearing to be the fanatic here.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    I’m amazed that Dave would even publish this article. That the story is a hoax is becoming more apparent. Indeed, as is pointed out above, there is no apparent swelling of her eye and as even Dave points out, the “B” looks to have been applied with something less than a knife blade.

    I would have thought that Dave would have let some of the dust settle on this story before jumping on it to post it here.

    Regardless, obviously feelings are high on both sides of the campaign. The great majority of people would never consider doing physical violence to members of the opposition. As witness the shout outs at some of the McCain and Palin rallies, there are apparently McCainiacs who are of a violent mind. I don’t doubt that the same can be said of some Obama devotees. That hardly reaches the level that Dave suggests in his comment above. His “confirmaton” is bogus.

    B

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Lumpy, an S would be more appropriate than an O.

  • http://ex-conservative.blogspot.com Glenn Contrarian

    Dave –

    DID YOU EVEN READ THE STORY? The link you gave was posted on the 23rd. Today’s the 24th. When did the attack happen? If it happened less than a week ago, then how could something carved in the skin possibly be so well-healed (as the photo makes obvious) in so short a period of time when it was supposedly CARVED into her face with a knife????

    Tell you what, Dave – why don’t you go searching to see how many black men have been freed from prison after their rape convictions were overturned by DNA evidence?

    Woman cries, “the black man did it!” The local whites get all riled up, convinced of the black man’s guilt, no trial necessary…and that’s how many a black man got lynched down South, Dave.

    This is pretty common throughout history. How about Googling “blood libel” to see the excuse anti-Semites used to kill thousands of Jews?

    AND YOU YOURSELF are not immune to this emotional conviction-without-trial, as is made obvious by the very fact that you posted this article.

    Please remove your emotions and look at the facts. Let the facts determine your belief, instead of letting your belief determine the facts.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “the hate here is palpable.”

    yeah, people hate a hoax and those who try to pass it off.

  • neoskeptic

    todd didn’t “offer” to take a lie detector, the police have requested it.

    a black eye doesn’t turn that shade of black immediately, first it is red, swollen for several hours. where’s the swelling?

    this whole thing smells fishy.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    BTW This is a link to a story regarding current Republican voter fraud.

    B

  • Clavos

    and that’s how many a black man got lynched down South, Dave.

    True, but not just “down South, B-tone.

    Your prejudice is showing.

    According to this study, published by Yale:

    However, there were lynchings in the North and West. In fact, every state in the continental United States with the exception of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Hampshire and Vermont has had lynching casualties.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Is there any truth to the rumor that Michael Nifong is now en route to investigate this? He was recently seen panhandling for bus fare, according to usually unreliable sources.

    Dan(Miller)

  • Les Slater

    from AP:

    “Police say bank surveillance footage doesn’t show her at an ATM where she says she was attacked.

    “Todd, who is white, now says she was knocked unconscious and doesn’t remember being cut. She now says she only discovered the wound later.”

  • moon

    This looks very fake to me.

    And even more to the point, if the victim had been a person with an Obama bumpersticker, I have just the tiniest weesiest sneakingest feeling that Nalle would have cried FAKE at the top of his lungs.

    Self-analysis is shocking absent from this forum.

  • Will
  • zingzing

    dave: “That said, if this story is even partly true – and we’ve got no evidence to contradict it at this point – it confirms everything I’ve observed elsewhere about the fanaticism of Obama supporters.”

    oh, for fuck’s sake, dave. you’re crossing lines time and time again these days. this is really, really insulting. i can’t even begin to describe just how idiotic that statement is. you need your damn head examined. smooches.

    if this turns out to be a hoax, are you going to paint all mccain supporters as dumbass hicks from the sticks? nah, you wouldn’t do that.

    seriously, dave… i used to respect you as at least somewhat even-handed. this election has brought out the right winger in you to almost r.j. or archie levels. it’s pretty despicable. feh.

  • zingzing

    ha! it’s all a hoax.

    next time some asshole yells “kill him!” at a mccain rally, i strongly suggest you look at yourself, dave.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “aggies are too dumb to lie.”

    apparently not

  • Will

    Sorry, last one. The whole story.

  • pablo

    Egg all over your hysterical,frothing at the mouth hate filled article once again Dave. Your gig is up, you have been exposed for what you are Mr. Political editor of this blog, and if you had any self respect at all, you would resign your position as the editor. Thank you once again Nalle for showing us all your true colors.

    From Joe Mandak Associated Press
    October 24, 2008

    “A McCain campaign volunteer who reported that a tall black man robbed her and then cut a “B” onto her cheek after seeing a McCain bumper sticker on her car has been given a polygraph test because of “inconsistencies” in her story, police said.

    Among other things, police said photos and bank card information from an automated teller machine where the college student claimed she was robbed do not show her using the machine at the time, police said.

    Pittsburgh police spokeswoman Diane Richard wouldn’t release the polygraph results, but said, “we’re still looking at some inconsistencies” in the woman’s story.

    Police said the student, Ashley Todd, of College Station, Texas, who is white, told them she was attacked by a 6-foot-4 black man Wednesday night.

    Richard said police have not ruled out that the woman was attacked as she claimed, and said inconsistencies deal primarily with how she described the attack.

    “We’re just trying to judge the validity of some of the information we received from her,” Richard said. “We understand when you are under duress that sometimes you can’t recollect things. We’re just looking at all the angles.”

  • John

    Well, the girl already DID do the polygraph, which seems weird that the police would even question a victim to that extent, except that they said there were several inconsistencies in her story.

    I feel bad for her if this did happen, however I have to say I called BS yesterday when I read it.

    As for the “Crazed Obama Supporters” LOL
    That’s a joke right contard?

    Democratic Headquarters in Murfreesboro Vandalized
    Incident Makes Second This Week

    Olympia Democratic Party headquarters vandalized
    The Olympian • Published October 23, 2008

    Democratic headquarters vandalized in Lawrence October 4, 2004

    Democratic headquarters vandalized The Daily News Published September 9, 2004

    Glass smashed at Dems’ Denver HQ The Denver Post Friday Oct. 24, 2008

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Liar, liar, McCain’s campaign’s on fire!

    BTW – Clav, I said nothing about lynchings, southern or otherwise.

    B

  • moon

    Pablo,

    Dave will not resign from here, ever. His corpse will be incinerated by BC and the ashes dumped in the White House rose garden, along with a garish wreath from his clones and sycophants.

    He did not resign when he was caught posting under the name vox populi and saying that he agreed with Nalle’s opinion and had seen Nalle’s sources.

    He stonewalled it–a la Richard Nixon.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    This poor, silly, misguided girl. I know nothing of her except that she is apparently prone to prevarication. Maybe the McCain campaign should foot the bill for her defense. I doubt that she will do any jail time, but she has certainly put herself in a predicament that will affect her future badly. She will be living with this for a long while. It’s not going to look good on her resume’.

    Tell us Dave, what does this turn of events “confirm” for you?

    B

  • zingzing

    this is where dave goes silent.

  • moon

    And well he SHOULD.

    His face is becoming permanently yellow from all that egg on it.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Can I get you a slice of humble pie, Dave?

    I have raspberry, rotten apple, banana peel or sour grape.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    The story itself was worth reporting on. However, Dave made the mistake of letting his bias seep through. Michelle Malkin thought the story was fabricated and I don’t believe she’s pro-Obama. Dave’s comments are where he completely loses any credibility.

  • rabjack

    hey dude, where’s the update? or doesn’t the truth matter as much as the opportunity to score political points?

  • moon

    It was worth reporting on, but was reported on much more professionally on other sites–Editor & Publisher being only one.

  • http://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com NancyGail

    Conflicting stories to police doesn’t help. Lie detector inadmissable in court, btw. Unrealiable.

  • Cindy D

    “aggies are too dumb to lie.”

    But, “bubbas” are apparently revered.

    Just making sure you noticed that I noticed that Dave.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Apparently, the girl’s story broke down via sources other than the lie detector. I don’t know if she, herself finally caved, but the police firmly reported that the mishap was all a hoax.

    I don’t know if Ms. Todd thought she was actually doing something to help the McCain campaign, or if she was just goofing, doing this all for a laugh. Ha, ha. As I noted, all she has accomplished is to raise up a shit storm around herself that will take a long time to live down. Well, at least she’s now had her 15 minutes. On to bigger and better things Ashley. Go Aggies!

    B

  • http://www.glosslip.com Dawn

    Can we please issue an official update in the body of the post? It really looks bad at this point to not point out this was a complete hoax. And a dumb one at that.

  • pablo

    Dave,

    You start out your article labled “news” with the following paragraph.

    “In an incident which seems like it epitomizes much of the anger and bitterness of this election season, a McCain campaign worker from College Station, Texas who was in Pittsburgh helping to work a phone bank was robbed and then attacked, brutalized, and disfigured in what appears to be a politically motivated hate crime.”

    You assert this not only as a writer, but as the political editor of Blogcritics.org, as a fact.
    Then you you go on to put more egg on your face with the rest of the bs you wrote.

    About 6 months ago, I submitted an article that as I recall was written under the label of “opinion” on why I think that Al Qaeda is a myth.
    As I had already submitted another article on why I did not believe in the official government conspiracy theory about 9/11 which was FORBIDDEN to write about and rejected.

    I also had the Al Qaeda myth article rejected by YOU bubba, for no other reason that you rejected my premise, ie my OPINION.

    You sir are a disgrace to this online magazine, and your hypocrisy is sickening.

    As I was censored recently for using the god forbid deragatory word “bubba” by Christopher Rose, and now this complete bs written by you under the guise of NEWS, I am now in the process of composing an articulate, well written, letter to the owner of this online magazine concerning the overt hypocrisy of both you and Mr. Rose.

    You have personally attacked me on numerous occasions instead of either debating me on the issues or ignoring me. As you are the editor of this part of blogcritics I do hold you to a higher degree of professionalism than the average writer or commenter on here.

    I do not do this lightly Dave, and have refrained in the past from writing Mr. Olson in the past. No more, you should either stop commenting or remove yourself as the editor, and I will do everything that I can to see that this happens.

    I am not interested in your response, excuses, or any other lame attempt to present yourself as professional. You are not.

    As we say here in California Davey boy.

    Once a bub– always a bub–

    cheers bucko

    Pablo

  • http://www.myspace.com/dungareedogs4 Bobby Slacks

    UPDATE:

    The lie detector test showed inconsistencies in her story. There is absolutely no video of her taking money out of an ATM at the location she claims the incident occurred.

    She is now back peddling on the whole story.

    Apparently, it was just a ploy thought up after an actual attack took place. Her friend, and she, thought it would give them a “JOE” the Plumber star boost, while casting a racial shadow on the Obama camp…depicting African Americans as violent criminals, who seek Obama’s Presidency at all costs.

    Silly, stupid, college girl, prank.

    The “B” is backwards, which was the first red flag. The fact that the “B” is not actually carved in her face, the surface of the skin not broken…it is more of a welt, than an abrasion, or, incise wound.

    No medical treatment was sought, and the Police have only begun to investigate.

  • http://www.myspace.com/dungareedogs4 Bobby Slacks

    Monica Lewinsky with an Ugly Mug, instead of a Blue Dress. 😉

  • Les Slater

    “It really looks bad at this point…”

    It is bad. Are you suggesting prettifying the post, and/or BC?

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Dave, check CNN, Wolf Blitzer has breaking news about this item!

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    CNN has just announced that this woman made the whole thing up. Pittsburgh Police made the announcement to Wolf Blitzer.

    McCain must really be getting desparate…

  • Georgio

    I came on this site early this mourning and this was the first article I read ..I was impressed with all the detective work most of you made and now it is late afternoon and the truth has come out so I thought I would come back just to see what Dave had to say now but his silence is deafening

  • Les Slater

    Dawn #66,

    The body of the post should not be edited. It should stand.

    The owners of BC have had plenty of time to disavow before it got to the point of the accuser breaking down and admitting it was a hoax.

    Les

  • http://www.glosslip.com Dawn

    Can we stop attacking Dave, a respected member of the BC org on a matter that was reported in major news outlets. Obviously this was a hoax, and Dave will have to update it, but all these personal attacks against the man only serve to make YOU the commenter look bad. Can we please tone it down a bit, please?

  • Les Slater

    Dawn,

    Changing the post at this point would reflect more on the integrity of BC than on Dave.

    Les

  • moon

    Dawn,

    You wouldn’t also be called Vox Populi now, wouldya?

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Dawn, I have nothing but respect for Dave, and my posts were NOT meant as such. Despite more than a few disagreements with him, I consider Dave Nalle one of the most knowledgable writer/editors on this site.

  • pablo

    Davey,

    Letter written to Mr. Olson

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    A suggestion Dave? Keep the title and the URL and rewrite about the hoax, and how a lot of people were overly eager to jump on the bandwagon before they realized there was no horse pulling it.

    Your friend
    Jet

  • zingzing

    or just add an update to the bottom of it. that would be the best thing.

  • moon

    An apology added to the bottom of it: For letting partisan prejudice trump common sense.

  • Les Slater

    Jet,

    The post at the head of this thread should remain exactly as it was posted.

    It would be good to have a different post reflecting on what transpired here.

    It did happen. Do we cover it up? At most the post could put a link to the new topic.

    Les

  • moon

    Les,

    Not a bad plan. However, this site has chosen to cover up the capers of Nalle in the past, so a break with tradition would be needed.

  • pablo

    If he had written this article under OPINION I might now have such a problem with it. Nalle chose to jump the gun, which I find particularly offensive, since he has on numerous occasions accused me publicly on here of spreading hatred, (I only hate the ruling elite who are committing genocide in Iraq and robbing the US Treasury as we speak) and of being a fear monger, which I am not. He has called me on here in the past a Nazi, I happen to abhor National Socialism and fascism in particular.

    Now he comes on here under the guise of News and spreads fear and hatred with this ridiculous article.

    Jet I disagree with you vehemently on your characterization of Nalle as knowledgeable. He is at the very least a party hack (I am not an Obama supporter)and more than likely in my opinion a paid shill, as his families employer the CIA indicates.

    I point to another article that he wrote on Jan 11, 2008 entitled Speedboat Diplomacy, again presented as news, not opinion, and his entire article has been discredited. Considering that we have been on the verge of a war with Iran for over a year, I consider that particular article extremely unprofessional and fear mongering.

    Just my two sense worth bucko.

    It is my opinion and I have said so in my letter to Olson that he either be political editor OR writer, not both, as he does a piss poor job of it.

  • pablo

    Here is a copy of the letter that I sent to Mr. Olson. Nalle, and Lisa Mckay cc.

    I am a writer and prolific commenter in the Political section of your online magazine. I have written four articles and approximately 600 comments in the last year.

    I write you today because I have several gripes to take up with you concerning the professionalism or lack thereof of Mr. Nalle, and also of being censored by Mr. Christopher Rose a comments editor for the political section of your online magazine.

    Since I first started writing on your site, I felt that I was personally attacked numerous times by Mr. Nalle, instead of either debating me on the issues of the day or ignoring me.
    I confess that some of my political beliefs are not easily accepted by many people on this site. That being said, I am not a racist, a nazi (I have been called that by Nalle in public on your site), nor a hate monger of any sort.

    I just happen to not believe in the official government conspiracy theory regarding 9/11, and also happen to believe that there is an international cabal of bankers through JP Morgan and the CFR, and the Royal Institute of International relations to establish a global police state. I am not the only one to make this claim, indeed Professor Carrol Quigley, (Bill Clinton’s self professed political mentor in fact wrote a whole book about it over 1200 pages long entitled Tragedy and Hope.

    I was approached by Mr. Nalle to write an article on my 9/11 conspiracy theories, which I in fact did. Soon thereafter I received a letter from Lisa McKay, saying that my article was rejected as the editorial board had decided not to publish 9/11 articles that were at variance with the official conspiracy theory. Needless to say I was somewhat taken aback as Mr. Nalle hiimself the political editor had suggested that I do.

    A few months later I wrote another article on why I thought that Al Qaeda was a myth, which according to Robin Cooke former British Foreign Secretary also said was a myth. A recent BBC documentary entitled “The Power of Nightmares” also made the same claim, that in fact Al Qaeda was created by the FBI to indict Bin Laden under the RICO statutes.

    This article was under the label OPINION, as was the 9/11 article. Yesterday Mr. Nalle published an article under the label NEWS that asserted quite hysterically I might add that a certain woman had been attacked at at ATM machine and had Obamas initial carved into his face. He presented it as news and as fact, before the story had even settled. I find this particularly in relation to my articles being rejected as OPINION as very hypocritical and unprofessional. This story was completely debunked in all the MSM today, yet Dave chose to write it as fact before any of the dust had settled.

    I have been called by Mr. Nalle a nazi, a tinfoil hat paranoid fear mongering writer on numerous occasions. I can take the heat, however I do not like hypocrisy, particularly when it is directed my way by the editor of your politics section.

    A few days ago I had several instances of my commenting deleted by Mr. Rose for using the offensive word BUBBA. Now I can be called any name under the book by Nalle, yet I use the word Bubba and it is censored. Mr. Rose replied that Nalle frequently has his remarks censored. I did a google search on it and found very very few instances of this, and none of the deragatory remarks he sent my way censored.

    The reason that I am writing to you as opposed to Lisa Mckay, is that I asked her several times after she told me that 9/11 articles that were contrary to the official version were verboten, if she could please tell me any other subjects that were forbidden, she declined to mention any to me.

    I wrote you several months ago about my attending over 700 Grateful Dead concerst for over 30 years and approached you about writing about some of my unique experiences followig this amazing band, Your wrote back and encouraged me to do so. However I have decided months ago not to write any more articles on this site for the time being as two of them had been declined, in my opinion for no other reason that either Nalle or Mckay did not like the subject matter.

    As you can see from this letter sir, I am more than capable of writing a succinct, easy to understand, and my vocabulary and spelling are fine for the most part.

    I do not like being censored particularly for using the word bubba, nor do I like being told to write an article by the political editor of your magazine then being told that it is forbidden by a higher up. I find this very unprofessional and I was quite unhappy about it.

    Incidentally Nalle on an almost daily basis uses personal attack with deragatory remarks towards those that disagree with him, thus I frequently refer to him as bubba or bucko.

    I suggest that Mr. Nalle either be a writer/commenter OR political editor but not both as he does a lousy job at it, and his obvious conflicts of interest are overwhelming. I also think that Mr. Nalle should refrain from his personal attacks as long as he is the political editor of this site, as it is not only very unbecoming of him, but in my opinion highly unprofessional.

    Sincerely

    Pablo

  • troll

    …the Palins should take this poor girl under their family wing and assist in her rehabilitation

    (btw – Les is correct of course)

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Pablo, I don’t see anything particularly objectionable in the way Dave presented the article. If you re-read the piece carefully, you’ll see that he didn’t suggest (although he did in the subsequent comments thread) that this was in any way typical behavior of Obama supporters and/or Democrats.

    As I understand it, Dave came across this story last night, noticed that it hadn’t yet been picked up by any of the major news networks, and was eager to get a scoop for the site.

    I don’t see anything in the piece other than a laying-out of the facts of the case as they appeared at the time.

    The comments space is intended for challenges and responses, which is exactly what happened. In my view, Dave can quite justifiably be taken to task for some of his remarks in the comments, but not for the article itself.

  • moon

    Pablo,

    Nalle routinely personally attacks anyone who disagrees with him.

    He hasn’t a whit of the sense of balance that is required in an editor.

    He has cloned himself when backed into a corner to provide facts that support his frequently bizarre claims about the world we live in, and used the clones’ comments as support for him.

    When confronted about his behavior–as in the case of my complaints about his personal attacks against me, which began approximately 30 minutes after I first posted an opinion contrary to his in September of 2006–he has denied it, even though the attacks are right there in the archives.

    Perhaps the case is simply this: That nobody with any professional editing skills is willing to work for Blogcritics for free?

    Or maybe he knows where a body is buried?

  • pablo

    Sorry Dread but I take issue with your comment.

    He was in fact spreading hysteria and hatred. He jumped the gun, and as there is not to my knowledge anyone who screens his articles before he writes them, highly unprofessional. Indeed I hold him to a higher account due to that fact, as I laid out in my letter to Eric.

    My main beef with him are his personal attacks, as Moon so eloquently states above. I find him hypocritical to the extreme, particularly when he has falsely accused me in the past of spreading hatred and fear, not to mention openly calling me a nazi, and not even having the decency to apologize to me for it.

    It is my opinion that he does this site great disservice by remaining the political editor when he is so openly biased, and uses personal attacks as his modus operandi on a constant basis.

    I will wait for an answer from Mr. Olson, in particular about being censored for using bubba, before I decide whether or not to continue commenting on this site. Bubba to me does not mean a racist, or a nazi, but it does convey what I want it to, which is that bubbas are good ole boys, that for the most part are ignorant, frequently from the south, and usually full of it.

    How Nalle can openly call me a nazi and not be cenosred, yet I use the term bubba and can is absurd, and I am sure that you know that Dread. Bubba conveys exactly what I want, and it is extremely apt in my assessment of Nalle and company, which includes his sidekick Clavos.

    As I have stated on here recently when censored for using that terrible word bubba, I planned on writing Olson anyways, the hate mongering article above only adds fire to my flame. It speaks for itself about Nalle and his unprofessional agenda on this site.

  • Les Slater

    My concern is not so much with Dave. It is the suggestion at 15:45 EDT, AFTER the hoax was thoroughly discredited, that the original post ‘looks really bad at this point’, and that the ‘body’ of the post be edited to reflect that it was a hoax.

    For better or worse, this thread, with the original topic post, did happen. It is a valuable lesson that should not be blurred because it reflects badly on BC.

  • http://www.glosslip.com Dawn

    Hey Moon, how about you quit while you are ahead? Seriously, because your knowledge of the inner workings of BC is beyond limited, perhaps bordering on ignorantly misinformed and dare I say, more than stupid.

    Also, Pablo, it’s OLSEN with an E. Eric rarely pays any attention to anyone with the temerity to spell his name incorrectly. Repeatedly.

    As for Dave Nalle’s editing skills and such, they are more than adequate and while I may disagree with virtually every political thought he’s ever conjured, those of you attacking him are no better.

    Political hatred from either side is not only counter-productive, but ugly.

    The story was a hoax, but Dave had no way of knowing that. He, like anyone else who jumps on a breaking story and later finds out it’s a hoax, need simply update it reflecting that. There’s really no need to get all indignant and gloaty. It could have happened to ANYONE.

    Sheesh, I hate being put in a position to defend a Republican, but let’s have some common decency.

  • Clavos

    Sheesh, I hate being put in a position to defend a Republican…

    Nonetheless, to your credit, you do a nice job of it.

  • pablo

    Dawn,

    You come across as a shrew dear. My beef with Nalle has NOTHING to do with his politics nor mine. My beef with him has to do with his conflicting interests as political editor and commenter, as well as his frequent personal attacks with those that disagree with him.

    Instead of discussing the issues of my disagreement, you Dawn reduce it to a typo on Mr. Olsen’s name. You come across as more hostile than anyone on this thread me included dear.

    I dont hate Nalle, nor am I spreading hatred, I don’t like hypocrisy particularly when it is sent my way. Both this article and the one that I referenced Speedboat Diplomacy speak for themselves, they were presented as NEWS and were written for no other reason than to spread hatred towards Iran and in this article towards Democrats, of which I am not one.

    Should Mr. Olsen decide not to address my concerns because of typos of his name, so be it. I doubt that he will however.

    If you know so much about the inner workings of this blogsite why don’t you address some of the issues that I brought up, such as me being censored for using bubba, while Nalle can openly call me a nazi dear, huh? Or why don’t you address the fact that my articles had been rejected, while Davey boy is free to publish the above trash. huh?

  • moon

    Dawn,

    Methinks you protest WAAAAAY too much. Your defense of Nalle is way over the top.

    And your PERSONAL ATTACK on me–calling me IGNORANT and STUPID–betray your belief that you are above having to follow the rules of conduct on this site.

    Moreover, your claim that this “mistake” could have happened to anyone is completely bogus, as I have checked at least 20 sites that carried the story and this site is the only one where an obvious OPINION PIECE claiming that a CRAZED Obama supporter assaulted the woman and reflected who were the kind of people who support Obama was passed off as NEWS.

    NO ONE ELSE said anything close to that. In fact, most folks who wrote about the incident were cautious and guarded in their OPINIONS and LANGUAGE.

    I will call things exactly the way I see them, as always.

    If that means you are caught with your pants down, please remember that you chose to drop them and squat; I did not pull them down for you.

  • pablo

    I am starting to like you Moon. :) :)

  • Barry

    Well, the girl has recanted the entire story – said she made the whole thing up. What now, Dave? Hmmm?

  • alex

    mmm….looks kinda fishy. thats just my first impression, i guess i could be wrong

  • moon

    Dave continues not to show his face on this thread, although he DID post on another thread after the hoax was outed and it was mentioned on that other thread.

    Which means he can’t use the excuse that he was in the can all day and didn’t know that the shit had hit the fan in another venue as well.

    However, I’ve got plenty of catching up to do in other places myself (and not in the can, either), so willnot hang around to see how this comes out.

    Yes, pun intended.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Dear Dawn,

    Perhaps I can put this in some perspsective?

    Dave “broke” a news story that was already old news.

    He then has not appeared to talk about the outcome of that “news” story since it has been debunked.

    Why not?

    He should have.

    At the least, as a blogcritics editor, he should have written a piece about how the girl recanted. He should have updated the piece and then written an apology as both the writer of the piece AND as a bc editor.

    And, in the future, he should watch his own comments….very very carefully, when commenting on such a sensitive piece that I, as a seasoned journalist, IMMEDIATELY realized was hinky, and would not have published anywhere, including a blogger site, without sitting on it, and trying to verify it. And as soon as I knew it was a hoax, as the writer/editor of the piece I would have written a fulsome apology and explanation.

    I think you are great, Dawn, but I have to agree that your defense of Dave in this case makes little sense.

    WHY have we not heard from him? Why have others posted the story of the girl’s recanting her story?

    I was gone all day or I would have done the same but the moment I came home I logged on. And you will notice that immediately upon my reading Dave’s story I mention Susan Smith: THAT is how spurious the story sounded to be right off.

    We really, all of us, need to be really careful what we label as NEWS and what as OPINION.

    Dave’s piece could easily have made reference to the girl’s story and then gone off as an opinion story IF he believed it to be true. The fact that he ran with the story based on ONE source and labeled it news was troublesome for this writer… and more troublesome is the fact that he has not come back to write an explanation and apology but has allowed you to defend him.

    It makes Blogcritics look very less than credible.

    ALL other news networks have reported the real story.

  • Cannonshop

    #97 …Or why don’t you address the fact that my articles had been rejected, while Davey boy is free to publish the above trash. huh?

    So…it’s Envy. You’re pissed because Nalle gets published and you don’t.

    Suggestion for yas: Why not Ask the publisher why you were rejected? I know it doesn’t support your feelings of victimization and unfairness, but if you want an article published to a magazine (ANY Magazine) and you’ve been unsuccessful in the past getting something published in that magazine, there’s probably a reason, and it’s usually the Writer, not the Editor or Publisher, who’s got a problem.

    I’ve Been Paid for writing before, as a freelancer, and getting in requires work. Blogcritics has pre-acceptance standards, Pablo, you can’t just haul off a rant as a new guy (or even frequent visiting fan) with no prior experience and expect them to welcome you with open arms and no references. Hate to tell you this, but even you aren’t that wonderful.

    You either earn your spot by knocking their socks off, or you earn it by showing quality work somewhere else. A blog of your own, or some published articles elsewhere, maybe a book…something. I note you don’t include a URL when you post. Most Bloggers are horribly vain, the lack of URL indicates to myself you don’t have a blog or site or anything that might be used as an example of work you’ve done on your own before.

    If you think you’re as good as Nalle, then you need to be able to back your claim. From what I’ve seen in the last four or five months (since I started coming to the site regularly), you haven’t done that, certainly posting to the comments section isn’t proof-comment threads are like Fan-forums, it isn’t the same as Quality, much less superior, writing.

    Nalle blew it on this article, but there are a LOT of good writers who blew it on this issue all over the internet, including some respected and respectable names outside of Blogcritics.

  • zingzing

    well, it’s not like dave HAS to be the one to write up the story (about the hoax).

    he SHOULD, but he doesn’t have to.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Actually, he really should. As the editor and the writer, he really really should. He certainly should not just…..disappear.

  • Bennett

    Methinks Dave has a financial interest in BC. Someone was cash strapped and Dave sold some stock. It’s all so simple, and common.

    No web site with a smidgen of integrity would put up with the vox popoli stunt and allow Dave to remain an Editor.

  • Cannonshop

    He might be busy, too- doesn’t Dave have a day job or something? (hell, I’d miss even MORE than I already do if we weren’t on strike right now…)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    This story has generated lots of heat, but very little light. It was all over the news earlier today and Dave Nalle did not vouch for its veracity. He stated that the “provenance [of the photo] is unknown.” He stated it “seems like [the incident]. . . .epitomizes much of the anger and bitterness of this election season” (emphasis added). The attacker “reportedly shouted. . . .” and so on.

    Anyone lacking prescience who attempts to relate breaking news is in danger of having the “news story” turn out to be a story rather than news. Should Dave have noted in a subsequent comment that the “news” turned out to be a hoax when that happened? Yes, he should have.

    Dave Nalle did not manufacture this news story; he reported it. I have seen far less anger directed at others who use their positions as reporters to make rather than to report the news. And finding a retraction is very difficult; if and when if ever it comes, it tends to be rather defensive and half-hearted. This is one example. There are others.

    The ad hominem comments with which this thread and others have been infested are very disheartening. Civility seems to have become a thing fondly to be remembered, but to be rejected in practice. In that connection, it is my understanding that the politics editors, Dave Nalle among them, do not have the capability of editing or deleting comments; they once did, but that apparently changed quite some time ago. That is the job of the comments editors, and they seem to do a fairly workmanlike job of it.

    There are more interesting things to discuss on BC than feeling of personal insult, irritation at other people’s comments, and whether it is suitable to use demeaning nicknames for them. There is probably a difficult line to draw between fair comment and personal attacks. To me, some of the recent comments seem to have crossed the line. I would urge fewer outbursts of indignant self importance and a bit more well directed humor.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    The problem is Dave the commentor does a huge disservice to the credibility of Dave the editor/writer, so this revolt certainly isn’t surprising.

    The article was fine last night, although the last paragraph had some questionable parts. It’s the comments here and elsewhere that create the appearance of an agenda and why people gleefully want to knock him down a few pegs.

    He needs to show up and take his medicine

  • pablo

    For your information Canon, I have had 4 articles published here. The reasons my submissions were not published has to do with not aligning with either the left or the right on here, ie my aricle on the myth of alqaeda and my 9/11 piece, both of which were written under the heading of OPINION.

    I again would like to point out the Speedboat Diplomacy article written by Nalle as NEWS, yet this story has been completely debunked months ago, actually within a week of it being written, yet Dave did not retract, but just ignored it. That is highly unprofessional and for that reason alone he should not be the editor here.

    Again my main point of contention with Nalle is not this article per se, but his attacks on those that disagree with him, which I get censored for saying bubba, yet he is let off scott free for calling me a nazi, which he in fact did.

    I personally have nothing against personal attacks as long as the playing field is level which it aint.

    I have spent a good portion of my life combating facsism in all of its myriad forms, so to be called a nazi by Nalle was a bit over the top.

    No one seems to be interested in the double standards here, other than me and Moon.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    Dan, if you think you are helping Dave out, think again.

    “Dave Nalle did not vouch for its veracity.”

    Dave the writer may not have but Dave the author did: “I am not going to question her story at this point. She lives not far from here and she’s an aggie and aggies are too dumb to lie.”

    “it is my understanding that the politics editors, Dave Nalle among them, do not have the capability of editing or deleting comments; they once did, but that apparently changed quite some time ago.”

    Your understanding is flat-out wrong. He may have been told not to after the extremely embarrassing “Vox Populi” incident, but the editors still have the capability.

  • AlanE

    The word “allegedly” is evidently not in Dave’s vocabulary.

  • Cannonshop

    Back on the actual topic for a moment…

    There’s one thing Dave got right-this election year has everyone on both sides wound up to the edge of breaking, and that kind of environment, hate to say it, is what breeds this kind of hoax, and creates (in the mind of the hoaxer) the idea, and a ready-made excuse that entices the kind of people who make these kinds of hoaxes.

    I’m not going to say it’s sad, because for it to be sad, I’d have to have some sympathy for the hoaxer.

    I don’t. If she wants to play these games, she’s in the wrong party. I do not foresee or expect a horde of Republican Ops coming out of the woodwork to defend or justify her actions-that’s not what being Conservative’s about to me, or the Conservatives I personally know.

    Miss Todd needs to sit down and decide what she really believes in, and take her lumps like a grown-up.

    I don’t actually expect she will, mind, but she should.

  • Clavos

    Your understanding is flat-out wrong. He may have been told not to after the extremely embarrassing “Vox Populi” incident, but the editors still have the capability.

    When’s the last time you went into a comment to edit it?

    I can’t edit comments. That’s a fact; mt won’t let me. I believe CR said a long time ago that that ability was restricted to him and Doc.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    El Bicho,

    You complain that Dave Nalle said, “I am not going to question her story at this point. She lives not far from here and she’s an aggie and aggies are too dumb to lie.”(emphasis added) Perhaps we read things a bit differently. That hardly seems to me to be a ringing endorsement of the young lady’s story.

    I have only been commenting on and submitting articles to BC since April of this year. I have no personal knowledge of what may have happened prior to that. As to whether politics editors, as distinguished from comments editors, have editorial powers over comments, I have been told that such powers were retracted quite some time ago. I assume that you must have some reason to believe that Dave Nalle has exercised comment editor privileges subsequent to the embarrassing “Vox Populi” incident or perhaps recently. If so, perhaps you will be kind enough to share your information with the rest of us.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    I did it to my own comment (#111) before I responded. Removed the last period in the comment and I have no access to Chris or the Doc’s login.

  • NoWay

    Shame. So quick to assume the story was true… shows desperation. Such a lost cause, this cycle is. The underlying racism in this whole episode is shameful a Republican party that should know better.

  • Clavos

    But you can’t modify PUBLISHED comments, right? That’s what Dan(Miller) is referring to.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Re Comments # 110,113,116,117 and 118: Perhaps CR or Doc would like to chime in here. Someone seems to be misinformed, and an authoritative resolution would be appreciated.

    Then, perhaps we can get back to the critical question of whether Dave Nalle should be hung, drawn and quartered or merely be required to sit in the public square and have rotten tomatoes thrown at him.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Just to clarify, the login and password to edit comments is different than the one to edit articles. Chris and myself are not the only ones who have that password: the site owners/administrators will, very very occasionally, go in to edit a comment if neither Chris nor I are around.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    I know lawyers like to twist their questions around as they go to get to the conclusions they want, or maybe you aren’t understanding the words, but I was only responding to your comments as written, not the new meaning you have chosen for them.

    Veracity somehow changed to ringing endorsement. There was no comment from anyone about a ringing endorsement, but Dave did say she was too dumb to lie. If she can’t lie, that goes to the veracity of the statements she made. I will grant that you may well read Dave’s words differently although it escapes me how.

    “I assume that you must have some reason to believe that Dave Nalle has exercised comment editor privileges subsequent”

    Don’t know why you would assume that since I never claimed Dave has done it since. I was responding to your previous claim that “the politics editors, Dave Nalle among them, do not have the capability of editing or deleting comments.” If someone higher up the chain wants to explain the situation, I will concede the point that politics editors have different restrictions than other editors.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    I understood what Dan meant. I can modify PUBLISHED comments and did. Never have tried before today. But if the politics editors can’t I’ll stand corrected.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Dan @ #110:

    It’s rather ironic that you should link to a story on Newsbusters as an illustration of your argument, because they were one of the few news sources to give Ms Todd’s story much credence when it first broke, and are now doing a very creditable Tasmanian Devil impression as they try desperately to spin it in a way that makes Todd come out still smelling of at least some sort of hothouse flower.

    Here’s their take on it all. Continue on past the article to the comments, some of which are by the author.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I’ve been out all day buying meat and shotgun shells for the local Turkey Shoot (both McCain and Obama supporters are welcome to attend), so I couldn’t reply or write a followup article.

    For the record this article was written within minutes of this story being picked up as a news item by the AP, Reuters, CNN, Fox and other news outlets. I got to the story before most of them did, based off of news reports on the Pittsburgh TV stations.

    If anything, my report contains more qualifications and is more thorough in presenting the ambiguities of the case than most of the other news coverage was. Plus I make very clear in my first comment that I had serious questions about the report, and that was many hours before Ashley Todd recanted.

    I do have a followup article which is going to be in pending in a few minutes, and I thank the omnipresent Matt Sussman for posting his satirical followup earlier today.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    El Bicho,

    In view of Comment #122, I see no point in belaboring further who has what privileges to edit posted comments, when it was changed or why.

    Therefore, I will only suggest that to certify someone’s veracity is, to me, rather a ringing endorsement. Veracity is, in a perhaps old fashioned way, important. Often, since Truth is such a valuable thing, it is economized more than it should be.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Just for the record, I’m not adding an apology for a report written based on reports from major media outlets which they were reporting in much the same way. The fact that this was a hoax is well established now, but it was still news at the time it was reported and the article remains an object lesson on what can happen when you report a breaking story that is still in progress.

    There is nothing partisan in the story. Every single statement made was drawn directly from a news source (three are cited in the article contrary to what some have claimed) and there is not one bit of opinion expressed in the article. In fact, structurally it’s a model of what a blog news article ought to be.

    But yes, it’s still all wrong. But the reporter does not control the story, he just reports it. It’s not his fault if the story he reported at midnight turns out not to be complete the next afternoon.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Doc, re Comment #123

    I wasn’t citing Newsbusters as a uniformly authoritative source of news. I haven’t found any of those. I was citing it about the CNN interview of Governor Palin. As the article indicates, the interviewer has now (sort of, in a backhanded way) apologized for not being clear. I don’t think there is any real dispute that the CNN interviewer attributed to the National Review article something quite different from that intended, and clearly stated, by the author of that article. It appears to have been a “gotcha” moment, and it (unlike others in the past) backfired.

    Dan(Miller)

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Hey Dave? ever been a real reporter? How about “claims” she was attacked. How about using the words allegedly, reportedly? How about station so and so reported that a young girl claimed…… and so on.

    Your first paragraph was as incendiary as the purported (another good word) crime.

    Sorry, Dave. I don’t buy your defense. OR the fact that, once you heard the retraction (hours ago) you didn’t try and get back to comment.

    And I DON’T buy another politics editor NOT vetting the story (where were you, Clav), too. Other than Dave. Didn’t you run it by another editor?

    That would make the most sense. When an editor writes a story, it makes sense to pass it by another editor who would, it would seem, say: Hey, I think we need some fudge words, like allegedly etc. in here, Dave. Whereupon Dave would, like a real reporter, say, Sure, and work on rewriting the piece.

    C’mon, guys.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    I mean, Dave: Look at your head and subhead. There is NO room for doubt there. If that was all people read…..

    You can’t wiggle out of this one, I am afraid.

  • pablo

    Dave you presented the first paragraph of your article as FACT. You say that you were not being partisan, who do you think believes you? Of course you were being partisan, which is why you chose to write it. You were attempting to spread fear and hysteria in this already ridiculous excuse for an election, and you know it.

    Why don’t you ever act like a man, and stop squirming around, and just admit your bias, and reasons for writing this stupid article?

    You have lost what little credibility you might once have had on this site, and I for one am calling for you to resign your post as politics editor.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    It doesn’t need an apology. It needs an update…unless you want people to believe that’s where the story ends.

  • http://www.radiocoach.biz Radio Coach Sam Weaver

    This lying sack of sh#t should be gutted with a hunting knife. In order to get fifteen minutes of fame, did she ever stop to think what an accusation like hers could have caused in that city. The whole thing seemed strange in the first place, especially the backward B thing. Well, now we know what the B really stands for. For such a stunt, she should be crucified upside down during halftime at a Steelers game. I think it should be a political bi-partisan effort sponsored by the NRA, ACLU and Miller Lite. Joe Buck and John Madden could MC the event.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Hey Dave? ever been a real reporter? How about “claims” she was attacked. How about using the words allegedly, reportedly? How about station so and so reported that a young girl claimed…… and so on.

    Yes Lisa, I have been a real reporter, and I’ve also been a real print editor as well. At the time the article was written there had been no challenge to Todd’s story and there was no reason not to give her the benefit of the doubt. My story is just the straight facts as reported, as are the stories I used as sources. To start putting my doubts and suspicions into the story would have removed it from the category of news to the category of opinion.

    What really troubles me is that Fox News has gone back after the fact and altered their story in several key ways to make it look like they were skeptical from the start. This is exactly why I’m not changing the article I wrote.

    Sorry, Dave. I don’t buy your defense. OR the fact that, once you heard the retraction (hours ago) you didn’t try and get back to comment.

    I was in my BigAss EcoTruck in rural Williamson County. I wasn’t even aware of the retraction until about 5pm.

    And I DON’T buy another politics editor NOT vetting the story (where were you, Clav), too. Other than Dave. Didn’t you run it by another editor?

    Yes, I did. All articles on BC are viewed by an editor other than the author. At the time it was published there was no reason for any editor to have an issue with the facts as presented. Note that I myself commented within 10 minutes of the publication of the article to outline some of my concerns. But it was not appropriate to put those concerns in a straight news article.

    That would make the most sense. When an editor writes a story, it makes sense to pass it by another editor who would, it would seem, say: Hey, I think we need some fudge words, like allegedly etc. in here, Dave. Whereupon Dave would, like a real reporter, say, Sure, and work on rewriting the piece.

    I’m great at equivocation and would have gladly rewritten the article that way, but as I said before, when the article was published there was little indication that it was necessary. Stop trying to judge yesterday’s news by today’s facts.

    Dave

  • troll

    Agree Bich…no need to change anything that’s been written – updates would be appropriate

  • HEY DAVE

    SO the word is out, its ALL A LIE !!!!! Wow..who would have thought the Repub’s would stoop to such a low. I hope this is a wake up call for everyone in America, to see what these sick sick people are doing just to TRY AND WIN because they know they are down!

    I hope she rots in a prison cell for a few years, giving time for that cutesy little backwards B to heal.

  • Clavos

    Lisa #124,

    Editors do not self publish. ALL editor articles are “vetted” by another editor, because they are edited and published by another editor.

    I did not edit and publish that article, which is why I have not entered into this discussion, nor is it my place to alter or amend it in any way.

    Many years ago, I spent several weeks cruising in a small boat on the Amazon River. I worked for Varig Brasilian Airlines at the time (which is now, sadly, defunct), and the cruise was work-related. At one point, we were upstream of Manaus, in the “Meeting of The Waters” area, where the Rio Solimões and Rio Negro flow together to form the upper reaches of the Amazon. One evening during the cruise we stopped at a small aboriginal village, where we were given a demonstration of the voraciousness and efficiency of Piranha fish. Our hosts trapped and slaughtered a capybara and dropped it whole into an eddy near the shore. What ensued was both gruesome and awesome; those fish appeared within seconds, and, in less than five minutes devoured the rodent; all but the bones.

    As I said, they were voracious, they were efficient, and they were unrelenting. It was a truly impressive spectacle.

    Much like tonight’s gang bang of Dave on this thread, which bore a strong resemblance to the deadly frenzy of those fish that night on the Amazon.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Dave,

    Again, it’s not the article I found wanting, but this comment –

    “it confirms everything I’ve observed elsewhere about the fanaticism of Obama supporters.”

    is what I take exception to.

    B

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    SO the word is out, its ALL A LIE !!!!! Wow..who would have thought the Repub’s would stoop to such a low. I hope this is a wake up call for everyone in America, to see what these sick sick people are doing just to TRY AND WIN because they know they are down!

    This is exactly the kind of hate which generates incidents like this hoax. The ‘Repubs’ didn’t do this. One sad little girl did it to get attention. You should be expressing your sympathy for her, not turning this into an excuse for more rage and hate.

    I hope she rots in a prison cell for a few years, giving time for that cutesy little backwards B to heal.

    She’ll likely get 6 months probation on a misdemeanor.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    I find it bizarre that so many commenters on this thread have made such a big deal out of this article, yet none of you had anything to say about the monumental fuck up by ersatz reporter Drew Griffin, who totally misrepresented Byron York’s words printed in an opinion piece in National Review, and grievously injured and insulted Sarah Palin on the air.

    What’s up with that, you libs? Double standard at work here?

  • HEY DAVE

    You talk about hate?? What this sick little girl did for “attention” was full of hate, racism and political wrong doing.

    If you are going to tell me I am full of hate because I think she is sick in the head, and did this to try and down Obama, and it FAILED because she admitted everything, then you sir, are sick as well.

  • HEY DAVE

    PITTSBURGH (AP) — A McCain campaign volunteer made up a story of being robbed, pinned to the ground and having the letter “B” scratched on her face in what she had said was a politically inspired attack, police said Friday.

    Ashley Todd, 20-year-old college student from College Station, Texas, admitted Friday that the story was false, said Maurita Bryant, the assistant chief of the police department’s investigations division. Todd was charged with making a false report to police, and Bryant said police doubted her story from the start.

    Dressed in an orange hooded sweat shirt, Todd left police headquarters in handcuffs late Friday and did not respond to questions from reporters. The mark on her face was faded and her left eye was slightly blackened when she arrived in district court.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    If you are going to tell me I am full of hate because I think she is sick in the head, and did this to try and down Obama, and it FAILED because she admitted everything, then you sir, are sick as well.

    No, I think you’re full of hate because you think that Ashley Todd is somehow a spokesperson for all Republicans. That’s puts you in the same boat with her.

    Dave

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “yet none of you had anything to say…”

    Please provide the URL where that article appears at BC. I know the comment editors like for us to stay on topic, so doesn’t make sense to discuss it here.

  • troll

    …a McCain campaign worker from College Station, Texas who was in Pittsburgh helping to work a phone bank was robbed and then attacked, brutalized, and disfigured in what appears to be a politically motivated hate crime.

    whichever editor passed on this verb should slap his wrist

    which raises the question: is it the responsibility of editors at bc to require fact checking before ‘news’ items are posted or do they restrict themselves to matters of style and grammar – ?

  • Les Slater

    Dave is biased. So am I. I hope nobody denies us our rights to our biases.

    The post is journalistically sloppy, which certainly is a serious shortcoming, that objectively led to the furtherance of the hoax.

    But what I really find disturbing is Dawn’s advising to edit the ‘body’ of the post so it wouldn’t look so bad. It is to Dave’s credit that he refuses to do so.

  • Clavos

    None of you submitted an article, either.

  • pablo

    What is it with you and Clavy Davey? Does he do all your dirty work, and the laundry too? Ya know here in liberal California thanks to the liberal activist non original intent judiciary you two could get legally hitched here, and you no longer would have to keep your relationship in the closet. Just a tip for ya Davey, after all one good tip deserves another don’t ya think bucko?
    (I used bucko instead of bub– cause I have been censored for that, as far as I know bucko is still in the free speech zone. smirk

    Now as to your excuses in being unprofessional in your zeal to leap to attack dog status, and pounce like the partisan right winger that you are
    on a hoax, then say it was ok because of the way FAUX news reported it, had me in stitches, I tell ya what hehehe.

    However, for your information Davey, I happened to be watching that smarmy, arrogant, mean spirited Bill O’lielly at the time the story broke, or within perhaps 2-3 hours of it. I know you must be asking yourself, what the hell is Pablo doing watching fair and balanced newsreporting? Well Davey, I learned from my Dad, who still to this day sends in in ninety-five cents a quarter to get the latest in the republican propaganda machine mailed to him, first class too! It is always good to keep up with the opposition.

    So yeah I was watchin O’lielly and he comes on and says that he thought it was proly a hoax, and that he had his doubts.

    It does say somethin though, when the political editor of a well known non-partisan online magazine at every opportunity uses partisanship to push his agenda, so much so that its quite frankly over the top.

    I know I get very little support on here from the rest of you fellas/women, on my comments and such. Hell we all know I aint stupid, don’t we Clavy?

    I write on here with extreme sarcasm at times, directed towards those that have attacked me (my perception of it) and I do it on purpose. I am more than capable and willing, as I said so many months ago, to debate civilly, with respect, and deference towards the political news of the day. However, that is not how things are done around here, particularly with regards to Nalle and company.

    I still get silence from Nalle about him calling me a nazi, no apology, just bullshit. I have never advocated national socialism, or of depriving human beings of their basic human rights, as Adolf Hitler did, or indeed of militarism. Yet Nalle can get off calling me a nazi, with impunity, and arrogance.

    I use the nazi example as one of many. The fact is Dave you are a bubba, and in your own interpretation of that word as you yourself said, you fit it. And in mine you fit it too, yet that gets censored, and yours doesn’t. Regardless of what Christopher Rose said about you being censored, we all know its once in a blue moon, when quite frankly it should be done daily.

    I have no friends on blogcritics, but I was never lookin for any on here anyways.

    After all ya don’t wanna be friends with a “truther” do ya? hehehe

    Many of you on here think there is an actual political contest going on, and the future of the free world depends on which of these two bozos win. Some of you even think that casting your vote onto a machine thats source code is hidden from even the government, and can easily be hacked/altered, is just dandy. That’s up to you, however when you come back at a person like me who does not buy into the bullshit, nor believe in the tooth fairy, that I am the paranoid one, and perhaps even unamerican that I would dare to question the patriotism of the makers of diebold voting machines.

    You were not looking to report on a news story Dave. The reason you jumped the gun, is because most if not all of your recent arguments have been based on spreading falsehoods and hysteria, with ACORN being a primary example. You will give lip service to the voting machine problem at most, because thats at the top of the food chain, and the voting registrations are at the bottom. That is at the bottom are disguntled poor folk, who for the most part cant stant republicans. You know it, I know it, and the whold stinkin world knows it.

    You jumped on a chance to further the flames of intolerance, and reason, which by the way are things that you have falsely accused me of in the past. The typical hypocrisy of the right, which you so aptly show on a daily basis bucko.

  • Bill B

    To start putting my doubts and suspicions into the story would have removed it from the category of news to the category of opinion.

    Um, no. To use the word ‘allegedly’ or it’s equivalent would stand as a reasonable balancing force against what was at that point an unverified allegation. If the Police had a suspect in custody would you proclaim him guilty? This is the pieces most egregious error. Without leavening through framing as ‘allegation’ the story enters the realm of propaganda.

    Yes, I did. All articles on BC are viewed by an editor other than the author. At the time it was published there was no reason for any editor to have an issue with the facts as presented.

    So you did or did not have another editor read it? This isn’t quite clear. Either you did not and your obvious obliviousness to your mistakes are exactly why you don’t trust your opinion w/o someone else giving it a look or your cohort was wearing the same blinders.

    The tone of the piece is Drudge-like and over the top… nice work if that’s what you were trying to emulate.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    “it confirms everything I’ve observed elsewhere about the fanaticism of Obama supporters.”

    is what I take exception to.

    That comment was in reference to the comments on this thread as much as anything else, and I take exception to them. Many of them stink of fanaticism.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    which raises the question: is it the responsibility of editors at bc to require fact checking before ‘news’ items are posted or do they restrict themselves to matters of style and grammar – ?

    Troll, yes we do fact checking. And if such was done at the time the article was published it would have confirmed exactly what the article says. There isn’t a single factual error in the article. Check the KDKA link (which hasn’t been changed like the FOX link) to confirm that.

    With the exception of some partisan comments on blogs actual news stories challenging Todd’s statements did not come out until later on Friday.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I’ve written a followup to this article which you can find here.

    Dave

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Sorry, Clav, I should have said: Clav or another poliics editor. In any case, I stand by my stance: WHOEVER edited the piece missed the boat.

    Dave and the editor: the piece was clearly suspicious. We ALL caught it as soon as it was published. SO, Dave and the editor should have made sure the story was not published as if it were FACT without any equivocation, especially because you, Dave, were apparently relying on only ONE source. (I said the same thing to Maddy when she wrote a story that also turned out to be not what it seemed; She used Fox news as her only source).

    This is bottom line journalism 101.

    And Clav, Nothing I have said is like anything you described with your attack story, so why you chose to include it in an answer to me astonishes me and makes me realize how venomous your feelings for me are.

    I have only commently fairly on Dave’s lack of journalistic ethics and where I think blogcritics went wrong.

    I agree, however, that some of the posts have gleefully and unkindly taken Dave attacked Dave.

    I think this is was A) Because Dave has been a little more than off the wall lately with his own comments and opinion pieces B) Because he IS an editor at blogcritics and C) Because for whatever his reasons (and they are decent ones now that we know them) he wasn’t here to answer the criticisms of his piece nor to print his defense or the piece or his retraction one the piece was found to be false.

    The fact is that some of the people whom Dave has pissed off–and there seem to be a number of them–have decided to hit back.

    He has made me angry but I have not attacked him personally. What I have made a point to do is challenge the way he wrote his story, the way it was vetted and edited, Dawn’s defense of Dave’s writing of the piece (as much as I like her and agree with her politics over Dave’s) and take Dave to task in his defense of his own defense of his story.

    And Dave, I think you were too so ready to believe the girl’s tale you could not imagine even questioning her bizarre story properly. You should and could have waited on it. The story was several days old and the other news outlets themselves waited until they broke the story. Clearly everyone was uncomfortable and for good reason.

    In addition, Dave, it seems fantastic to many of us on the other side that you don’t seem to recognize your own fanatacism but continue to mention ours at every chance. That is, perhaps, another reason why so many commenters were so eager to get back at you. You really have been extraordinarily unkind to a number of people, even though you continually refuse to recognize it.

    And, finally, Clav: If there is a story you wish us to look at, please post the link. But just mentioning a news story as if it were somehow a “defense” of Dave or a more egregious example of journalistic ethics gone bad makes absolutely no sense in the context of this discussion. El Bicho is absolutely correct.

  • Bill B

    There isn’t a single factual error in the article. Check the KDKA link (which hasn’t been changed like the FOX link) to confirm that.

    The first line from the report:

    Pittsburgh police are investigating after a volunteer for the Republican campaign says she was attacked by a mugger who became enraged after seeing a John McCain bumper sticker on her car last night.

    My emphasis. These are leavening terms.

    I just noticed the “reportedly shouted” lingo with the link to an updated story. If that lingo was present originally that’d been a start, although it should’ve been in the context of the meat of the allegation, not just what was shouted.

    Even if your facts are accurate, your slant is spin – and it’s not enough to exit the realm of propaganda.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    “So you did or did not have another editor read it?”

    I’m the one that published this article. The information available at 1:20 in the morning on Friday was basically consistent with other articles I read on Gawker and Pittsburgh-area news stations.

    Is the article biased? Yeah. Could it’ve been Opinion rather than News? I guess. It was a toss-up. If 50 of you want to come hither and scream bias and call for my resignation/condemnation/crucifixion, then that’s fine. Whatever makes you happy.

    But I’ll just say this. I was in charge of the editorial page of my college newspaper in 2004. Everyone was so fucking on-edge weeks before the election, even regarding things that had nothing to do with the election. I’m seeing the game thing here in 2008. Dave Nalle’s bias is not a partisan issue, but regardless, Christ, chill. Go back and read Schannon’s article. Like he said: relax, it’s just an election. We’ve had them before and we’re still standing.

    Take a deep breath. Then go watch the World Series or something. Clean out your closet. Watch your favorite TV show on Hulu for about two hours. Do something besides yell on the Internet. It’s good for the chi.

  • pablo

    Cmon Lisa!

    Clavos showing venomous feelings? Surely you jest.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I’d say 2004 had nothing on this election for people being on edge. The only thing comparable in recent memory would be the 68 and 72 elections. I remember 72 pretty well, and have read lots about 68. The rhetoric is at the same level, but the key difference I see is that McCarthy and McGovern supporters and their campaigns were nice folks – like their candidates – a LOT less nasty than MoveOn.org and the current batch of democrat partisans.

    Hell, if Obama were Gene McCarthy I’d probably vote for him, but he’s not.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Lisa,

    And Clav, Nothing I have said is like anything you described with your attack story, so why you chose to include it in an answer to me astonishes me and makes me realize how venomous your feelings for me are.

    I apologize. My anecdote was not directed at you specifically, but you are right, by putting it in a comment addressed to you, I made it seem as though it was. For that, I apologize. Though, as I’ve made obvious in the past, I have strong differences of opinion with you, in no way are my feelings for you even remotely approaching venomous. Again, I’m sorry I gave that impression.

    I told my tale because that IS the OVERALL and collective impression I got of the anti-Dave posts that were going up in rapid succession all during this afternoon and evening.

    They were (many of them) vicious and unrelenting, just like the Piranhas, and everyone was gleefully piling on as if the whole thing were great sport. The entire spectacle on this thread was IMO, unwarranted in its viciousness, and misguided in its direction.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dave and the editor: the piece was clearly suspicious. We ALL caught it as soon as it was published. SO, Dave and the editor should have made sure the story was not published as if it were FACT without any equivocation, especially because you, Dave, were apparently relying on only ONE source. (I said the same thing to Maddy when she wrote a story that also turned out to be not what it seemed; She used Fox news as her only source).

    You keep saying I was only relying on one source, but in fact I reference two in the story and viewed others as well, which all said basically the same things.

    This is bottom line journalism 101.

    Journalism 101 is to have 2 sources for every fact, which the article has.

    I have only commently fairly on Dave’s lack of journalistic ethics and where I think blogcritics went wrong.

    What you consider lack of journalistic ethics I consider fundamental journalistic ethics. To have inserted commentary or excessive analysis and opinion of my personal take on the story in the text would have invalidated it as a news story. This is why I immediately expressed my doubts in a comment once the story was published.

    Do you get the need for a clear division between news and editorial content? In the story I stuck to the facts as reported without shading or interpreting them one way or the other. But having doubts, I put them in the comments where they would not diminish the nature of the story as news reporting.

    To have slanted it either way by cheering her on or denigrating her would have been unethical and rendered the story opinion rather than news.

    I think this is was A) Because Dave has been a little more than off the wall lately with his own comments and opinion pieces

    Most of the commenters on this piece aside from a few regulars have likely never read anything else I’ve written. They were attracted to this piece because it was an opportunity to bash Republicans. End of story.

    one the piece was found to be false.

    Again, the article was not false. The facts have just changed.

    The fact is that some of the people whom Dave has pissed off–and there seem to be a number of them–have decided to hit back.

    I am perfectly happy to be judged by the enemies I attract. To be the target of attacks from the likes of Moon and Pablo is like a mark of honor.

    And Dave, I think you were too so ready to believe the girl’s tale you could not imagine even questioning her bizarre story properly.

    Yet immediately after writing the story I expressed my skepticism of it. How does that figure into your peculiar interpretation of my thought processes?

    You should and could have waited on it. The story was several days old and the other news outlets themselves waited until they broke the story. Clearly everyone was uncomfortable and for good reason.

    This is untrue. The story broke onto the news services right around the same time I wrote it up. It was from the 10 O’Clock report on KDKA. The incident happened at 9pm Wednesday and hit the news the following night, so it was not ‘several days old’. It was a breaking story which was only a couple of hours old and I reported as completely and accurately as possible based on the information available at the time. I was also the first person I’m aware of to find Ashley Todd’s campaign blog and link to it.

    In addition, Dave, it seems fantastic to many of us on the other side that you don’t seem to recognize your own fanatacism but continue to mention ours at every chance. That is, perhaps, another reason why so many commenters were so eager to get back at you. You really have been extraordinarily unkind to a number of people, even though you continually refuse to recognize it.

    Sorry Lisa. I admit to not being terribly patient with ideologues and those who just repeat the same old arguments without thinking about them. I expect a certain level of intellectual flexibility and open-mindedness and I’m not terribly tolerant of blind partisanship. What you perceive as my ‘fanaticism’ is more like my reaction to the fanaticism of others and my insistence that certain facts not be ignored or brushed off because they don’t fit the current talking points or approved agenda.

    But I’ll meet you half way. If you admit that Barack Obama is a socialist, I’ll admit that socialism isn’t always the worst solution to some problems.

    Dave

  • pablo

    Dave RE 153 you said:

    “The rhetoric is at the same level, but the key difference I see is that McCarthy and McGovern supporters and their campaigns were nice folks – like their candidates”

    Maybe that was part of the problem bu—. The time for niceness is in the past. The fox is in the henhouse and feasting with abandon.

    The problem as I see it concerning the right wing, is that as usual you guys always over reach in your grab for power, and it comes back to bite ya on the behind. We saw it with Nixon, and both Bush bub—s.

    It is too bad however that now both the left and the right have been co-opted and it matters nil who wins, either way the CFR calls the shots and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

  • pablo

    Dave re #155 you said:

    “I am perfectly happy to be judged by the enemies I attract. To be the target of attacks from the likes of Moon and Pablo is like a mark of honor.”

    That makes two of us bub–. I am glad to oblige you and engage you any day o the week.

    My take on most republicans is that they are up-tight, square, narrow minded, self-righteous, and heartless. You do your side justice, thank you.

  • troll

    Dave – …yes we do fact checking. And if such was done at the time the article was published it would have confirmed exactly what the article says. There isn’t a single factual error in the article.

    I have already quoted the part that contains the primary factual error – one doesn’t have to go beyond your first sentence to find it

    that you go on in the piece to report that an investigation was in progress does not excuse your initial statement that the assault was fact

    imo there is zero big fucking deal here – stop defending the indefensible

  • troll

    (in case it needs to be spelled out further – there is a big difference between stating that the assault was fact and that the the assault was alleged [as most reporters without axes to grind did btw])

  • Arch Conservative

    The fact that this story is probably false does not mean that there are not many Obama cultists out there capable of doing something like this or worse.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    The story is false ArchFool-not “probably false,” but does not mean that there are not many McCain cultists out there capable of doing something like this or worse.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    But Dave, surely you could easily have said what even Bill B said: Pittsburgh police are investigating…..
    And you could have toned down your hed and subhed IF as you say you had your own suspicions…

    And I can’t meet you half way… because while I think that Obama has some ways to “socialize” some programs (like the government socialized things for the rich) what I think is that he is trying to make capitalism FAIRER. I think we need to reshape our good old system. Greenspan had it right. The free market will NOT correct itself as long as people are selfish and greedy. By having the government set an example, perhaps, and JUST perhaps, people will take a cue that realize that that “spreading the wealth” makes some sense and can work to everyone’s advantage and that the rich can still be rich but the poor don’t have to be so effing destitute and the middle class doesn’t have to shore up the rich so that they can take advantage of everyone.

    Universal health care is just one way. The super rich paying slightly higher taxes is another.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Oh, and thanks, Clav. I really do appreciate your post.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    First impression was the same as the Obama people: LYING white woman. College Station is so white she probably does not even know what a black person looks like, let alone ever been around one.

    She sounds like she is describing Obama!! How stupid can you get? That’s when I knew she was lying. I thought this woman who’s never seen a black man is describing the only black man she’s ever seen: Obama! Tell the truth about lily white Bryan College Station where ATM is located.

    You notice that the Obama bloggers were not falling for it. How do you know? When there is a lack of detail that’s a big clue…and changing one’s story.

    Dave tell the truth about Texas–redneck country. The only darkies in College Station are foreigners from Indonesia and other places that populate the college of engineering. Black men are short or of average height. Barack is over 6 feet.

    What a crock, scam. And shame on Dave for falling for this one HOOK, LINE AND STINKER!!!

    This one’s a real stinker Dave.

    You are now in the “Blogger’s stinker hall of fame” (my creation) along with the black guy (journalist) that said “socialist” was code for “black people.”

    Heloise

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    I don’t think Dave did anything wrong in reporting this story as he did (which is not to say that I think his story selection skills aren’t tainted by prejudice rather than bias).

    However, I must take exception to these two hysterical remarks he made in comments:-

    1. “I admit to not being terribly patient with ideologues and those who just repeat the same old arguments without thinking about them. I expect a certain level of intellectual flexibility and open-mindedness and I’m not terribly tolerant of blind partisanship.”

    As Dave (regardless of whether he can actually ever accept it) is one of the most ideologically loaded people I have ever encountered, this remark just tends to confirm my view that Dave lives in an illusion more profound than that depicted in The Matrix.

    2. “If you admit that Barack Obama is a socialist, I’ll admit that socialism isn’t always the worst solution to some problems.”

    aka, if you stop saying things my prejudices can’t tolerate, I’ll stop saying one of the biggest falsehoods in political history, which I don’t actually believe anyway.

  • Les Slater

    Chris,

    “I don’t think Dave did anything wrong in reporting this story as he did…”

    Other than sloppy journalism? It looks to me that the particular sloppiness was colored by his particular bias.

    Les

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Dave, while I am not calling for your head it now makes sense why my near-perfect articles were often LEFT in PENDING for DAYS on end. I knew your bias was showing when my PRO Obama articles would just languish. Yes, it made me mad especially the last time you did it.

    I don’t like airing this in public: but I have had to write emails to other editors to see WTF happened. For this reason and the horrible spinning over-the-top pro McCain shit you just pulled, totally biased and to be forever in the Blogging Stinker’s hall of fame you should resign as editor and be a helper and let someone else take over as editor.

    Too bad. I thought you were cool.

    Heloise

  • troll

    gads Heloise – you and Pablo have legitimate grudges if your work has been shelved for partisan/political reasons

    say it ain’t so EO

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    There seems to be a large degree of total misunderstanding about the Blogcritics editorial process.

    Blogcritics differs from most publications, on or off line, in that it doesn’t have an editorial perspective to promote. This means that it has no in house political or cultural perspective to defend or promote.

    Editors do not either aid or impede stories according to their personal perspective on the content.

    Sometimes, although rarely, articles along certain themes, such as the 9/11 “Truthers” meme, are rejected because of their volume and similarity, but in general terms, anybody who signs up with us can write about whatever interests them.

    It’s important to understand that editors do not have different powers and responsibilities as found in a traditional print publication and are not shaping or controlling BC’s published profile.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    thanks for your support troll. You see I have given Dave the benefit of the doubt far too long. He gave McCain’s Todd the benefit of the doubt too.

    I knew I was depressed over it when another teacher asked me why I looked so down. I said I just wrote an article (one Thursday am) and I know it is going to just SIT because the blog editor is right wing and it’s a great article, and I know it will just sit.

    How intuitive Heloise is: it did SIT until I think Sunday. But that was after I sent someone an email about it. I was going to actually put it in a comment to Clavos and ask him if he could get the article published for me. I think it was the Sarah one, not sure now. But the point is

    I have proof as to when I wrote article and when it would get published—my shit would sit for days!

    Yes, Dave should be replaced as political editor ASAP. Also the reason I have NOT been prolific a writer of late—thinking my stuff will just SIT.

    And NEWS is only as good as it is fresh….

    Heloise

  • Clavos

    gads Heloise – you and Pablo have legitimate grudges if your work has been shelved for partisan/political reasons

    say it ain’t so EO

    I’m not EO (obviously), but I can tell you and Heloise unequivocally that “It ain’t so.” There are only three Politics editors total, and Bambenek is much less active than he used to be because of pressures (including a new baby) from the rest of his life outside of BC. And Dave and I both have day jobs as well, although we both are our own bosses, that usually translates into MORE, not less work to keep things going.

    As I explained recently in a private email to another writer, it is BC policy to edit and publish submissions in the order received, and the Politics editors follow the policy.

    In an election year, particularly one with as contentious a race as this one, the volume of submissions goes up significantly.

    No one’s submission is ignored or held back for ideological or partisan reasons.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Les, it wasn’t sloppy at the time it was written. To argue that it was, despite Dave’s prejudices, is to misunderstand the news process.

    troll, please remain calm; it ain’t so except in the narrow case I depicted above.

    Heloise, take a deep breath, count to ten, your world is not falling in, Dave is not in charge, your work is not being delayed, ideology and publishing speed are unrelated.

  • troll

    I can’t wait for Dave’s next work: THERE’S A FIRE IN THE THEATER……….maybe

  • Les Slater

    Chris,

    “Les, it wasn’t sloppy at the time it was written.”

    Any serious journalist, not that I think Dave is a serious journalist, or one should have to be, to write on a blog such as BC, would start out by using the word allege in some form.

    I do think that Dave’s article was sloppy journalism. That, however, is not my greatest concern.

    I do not know if Dawn has any formal responsibility, or interest, in the success of BC, but to suggest that the ‘body’ of the article be changed, so that it won’t ‘look’ so ‘bad, is highly inappropriate.

    Les

  • http://outfoxingkarlrove.wordpress.com/ Cole

    Republicans have been giving new meaning to lying ~ in this campaign.

    Palin has certainly told more than a few during this election

    ~ so could we say: Lying is a girl’s best friend!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Cole, can you name a few of Palin’s actual lies? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dave tell the truth about Texas–redneck country. The only darkies in College Station are foreigners from Indonesia and other places that populate the college of engineering. Black men are short or of average height. Barack is over 6 feet.

    Heloise, I have to give you credit for being racist towards both white and black Americans in one statement, and throwing in a racist stereotyping of Indonesians while you’re at it. Truly impressive.

    And College Station is a typical East Texas town if you take away the college population. The South Eastern part of the town has plenty of African Americans who have lived there for generations.

    As to editorial treatment of your “near-perfect” articles, they are among the hardest to edit which we have and do not reject out of hand. Not because you’re illiterate, but because your writing style is idiosyncratic and requires closer attention and a certain familiarity with it for an editor to get through it.

    If you care to look at the history of who has published your articles you will see that almost all of them are published by me rather than other editors, because I know how difficult they are to edit and being experienced with your work I go out of my way to edit your articles when I see them. I don’t bump them up the queue, but when one is there I try to make time to have an editing session and edit whatever I need to in order to get yours published.

    So if anything you get better and faster editorial treatment than other writers, though I understand how frustrating it is to wait. But let’s not get paranoid about it.

    What some of our writers need to learn is that despite the line of utter bullshit spewed by Chris Rose, when it comes to editing I am completely non-partisan. I actually enjoy publishing articles I don’t agree with because they give me an opportunity to think about issues and counter their arguments in the comments section.

    And remember, sometimes our schedules don’t allow us to edit everything right away, especially on the weekend. If you think your article is being neglected, send me an email – as you have before – and I’ll get to it as fast as I can.

    Dave

  • http://outfoxingkarlrove.wordpress.com/ Cole

    Dave Nalle

    The plane on eBay, which was never sold on eBay

    The Bridge to nowhere – that she was for ~ before she was against.

    Something she’s done – Palin spent 88 days actually working as Governor – and she billed the Alaskan tax payer for 330 days travel expenses while remaining at home.

  • Les Slater

    Dave,

    I have always thought you were a good writer. I appreciate your explanation of the task of editing, and I believe you when you say you do your best, even, or maybe especially, when you don’t agree with the article.

    I can’t argue with your right to hold the positions you do, but sometimes get the impression you don’t always fully accept those positions. I detect a glimmer of of a crack in what I see as a facade, sometimes when you realize that things aren’t going in the world according to what you would hope to be.

    I have no doubt that those, such as yourself, will break with supporting the capitalist system as it becomes more and more exposed.

    You must have your doubts that the capitalism, the ideal capitalism, that you look to, will ever have a chance to come to the fore. Real people with real, and serious, concerns will not let it happen. There’s too much at stake to give one more kook scheme a chance to do more harm.

    Les

  • moon

    Before I left yesterday, I pointed out that Dave wouldn’t be able to use the excuse that he spent the day in the toilet and didn’t see the retraction BECAUSE:

    HE POSTED ON ANOTHER THREAD AFTER THE HOAX HAD ALREADY BEEN OUTED ON THE OTHER THREAD.

    Dave can’t have it both ways:

    Either someone posted in his stead on the other thread because he truly was out buying ammo to murder turkeys (stop, Dave, I grew up in an NRA family and know that turkeys are not shot at turkey shoots, unless they do it the Texas Twostep Way, targets are fired at), or

    ONCE AGAIN

    Nalle is weasling like crazy to get out of taking reponsibility for letting his Republic Rants loose

    ONCE AGAIN

    on this site.

    I would also like proof that Nalle has been a REAL reporter and editor–and game rags do not count.

    I wrote under a byline with photo for the Albuquerque Journal for a number of years (not the NYT but we did score some Pulitzers and I was paid very well for my pieces) and I can tell everyone on this site that my editor was a PROFESSIONAL who never changes a comma of my writing without calling me and getting my permission!

    Nalle, on the other hand, has edited my posts frequently over the past 2 years–and even blocked a lot of them, disabling my IP entry when I was NOT banned from this site because what I wrote showed evidence of his posting propaganda as information–gato por liebre we say here, which means passing off cat as rabbit.

    In this poster’s opinion:

    1. Nalle posted PROPAGANDA for his preferred party yesterday and had the unmitigated nerve to label it NEWS. This is the same behavior that I initially called him on over two years ago and which made me the target of unrelenting hateful and libelous behavior from both Nalle and his doppleganger, calvos.

    2. Nalle’s weasling attempts here have included claiming that OTHER media treated the incident the same way–which is simply NOT TRUE. I read pieces on at least 20 other sites yesterday because–as I posted before the hoax was outed–that it looked fake to me–and other sites were VERY CAUTIOUS with their language and tone. But Nalle rushed right in where angels fear to tread–a rookie reporter in action trying to make points and score the prize.

    3. The whole thing collapsed like a demolished building, and Nalle should have had the courage to take his lashes like a man, instead of saying he didn’t know and everybody else was doing it, too, so it wasn’t his bad.

    This whol eincident smells really bad–the girl who did it may have the reason of being scrazier than a bedbug–but Nalle DOESN’T. He may be intransigent beyond all belief, sometimes duplicitous, over-eager to make himself important, extremely unskilled and belligerant in his style of dealing with opposing views, and shockingly unprofessional as an editor–but he is NOT insane.

    It would behoove Dave and add considerably credibility AND conviviality to this site if Nalle were to, in this vernacular phrase: KNOCK OFF THE CRAP.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Dave I have the original articles to show how LITTLE they are edited. Once in a while I will do a rewrite and then it gets published with NO changes.

    Tell the truth Dave and shame the REPUBLIGRIMS!

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] If I am illiterate what the fuck does that make you? Why would a linguist (John McWhorter) SEND me his book unsolicited for a review? Why would then they ask me also to do an interview? You are really showing your bias. Yes, I am honest I call a spade a spade whether it’s black or white.

    Heloise

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Finally, why do some of the top news sources pick up my articles? I notice that ALL of your political articles YOU send right to Breitbarts.com, which is right wing!

    You are a piece of bias tape.

    Heloise

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    The plane on eBay, which was never sold on eBay

    She didn’t say it was sold on ebay. She said she put it on ebay. And she did. And it was a clever idea for publicity and as a symbol of her intent to trim government spending. She never said she sold it on ebay. Go look the speech up on YouTube.

    The Bridge to nowhere – that she was for ~ before she was against.

    Not sure what you’re complaining about here. She supported it, changed her mind and played a role in stopping it. She’s never claimed otherwise.

    Something she’s done – Palin spent 88 days actually working as Governor – and she billed the Alaskan tax payer for 330 days travel expenses while remaining at home.

    Actually, it was living expenses and commuting expenses and despite an effort to make an issue of this, it is actually not a violation of state government policy. It’s actually pretty standard to compensate state employees when they incur expenses because of their job.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I can’t argue with your right to hold the positions you do, but sometimes get the impression you don’t always fully accept those positions. I detect a glimmer of of a crack in what I see as a facade, sometimes when you realize that things aren’t going in the world according to what you would hope to be.

    I’m a realist, Les. But I’m going to keep advocating for the best possible outcome wherever I can. If Obama wins, then I will be starting over from scratch and looking at the positives and what can be done to build on them.

    There is a genuine upside to an Obama win. It creates an opportunity for radical reform within the Republican Party which is very badly needed. You can be sure I’ll be writing on this a lot in the future.

    Right now we’re in a demoralizing situation where neither political party represents the best interests of the people and they offer two different failed approaches to government. A few years governed by the extremism which an Obama presidency will give free reign to will put a lot of pressure on the GOP to change and reinvent itself, and ultimately that will be a good thing.

    I have no doubt that those, such as yourself, will break with supporting the capitalist system as it becomes more and more exposed.

    Fat chance, Les. You confuse state-corporatism with capitalism. I’m all for addressing the shortcomings of monopolistic state corporatism, but the core values of real capitalism are fundamentally positive and that’s not ever going to change.

    You must have your doubts that the capitalism, the ideal capitalism, that you look to, will ever have a chance to come to the fore. Real people with real, and serious, concerns will not let it happen. There’s too much at stake to give one more kook scheme a chance to do more harm.

    Except that it is not a kook scheme, it’s the natural expression of the human desire to succeed and prosper. Socialism is not incompatible with capitalism, but it IS incompatible with liberal, republican government, which is ultimately the best environment for capitalism.

    In fact, socialism works very well with large-scale corporatism, and I have serious concerns that in an Obama regime we’re going to see more growth of internationalism and state-managed capitalism which is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.

    Dave

  • moon

    Actually, both Dave and clavos already provided the reason that BOTH should be removed from any editorial position here:

    THEY DON’T HAVE TIME TO EDIT THE STUFF IN A TEMELY MANNER.

    According to clavos, they both have “day jobs” (I will suspend my disbelief about that statement for the sake of argument) and therefore can’t get to stuff.

    Dave also complains that some of the articles are “difficult to edit”. Now that IS utter nonsense. Any article that really NEEDS editing is one written by a non-writer and therefore should not even be in the submission pile!

    And editing is easy–when dealing with writers with perparation as writers. All you have to do is catch any typos and you’re off to the next piece.

    It is not the responsibility of an editor to REWRITE any article.

    I have taught writing to university students since 1968–though not continually–and was being paid as a professional writer several years before that. I have also edited professional journals and literary magazines.

    The kinds of problems that are the bane of this site are those associated with folks who have no professional credentials and experience trying to do jobs that should be done by professionals.

    You get what you pay for.

    I returned to post comments on this site before taking off to consulting gig in SE Asia because a very polarized presidential election is bearing down on Gringolandia, and I wanted to see how folks were responding to the challenge of keeping it all together.

    I see they are not responding well. Instead of rising to the occasion and in fact changing some of their maladaptive social conduct, they have just upped its decimal level.

    You folks have disappointed me. Again.

    As my exhusband (RIP) used to say: Hopeless–you give them books and they chew the covers.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    But Dave, surely you could easily have said what even Bill B said: Pittsburgh police are investigating…..

    Lisa, I did say exactly that, in my final paragraph.

    And I can’t meet you half way… because while I think that Obama has some ways to “socialize” some programs (like the government socialized things for the rich) what I think is that he is trying to make capitalism FAIRER. I think we need to reshape our good old system. Greenspan had it right. The free market will NOT correct itself as long as people are selfish and greedy. By having the government set an example, perhaps, and JUST perhaps, people will take a cue that realize that that “spreading the wealth” makes some sense and can work to everyone’s advantage and that the rich can still be rich but the poor don’t have to be so effing destitute and the middle class doesn’t have to shore up the rich so that they can take advantage of everyone.

    My objection here is that none of these standard leftist memes are actually true. The genuinely poor in the US are extraordinarily well provided for, and the middle class is not subsidizing the wealthy class. It’s all just partisan BS.

    What worries me is the agenda which all of this is aimed to promote – not so much what Obama will do – but what will come out of the democrat controlled congress when they think they can get away with things like the fairness doctrine and wholesale equalization of wealth (always exempting themselves, of course). It’s going to be a grim time for the Bill of Rights.

    Universal health care is just one way. The super rich paying slightly higher taxes is another.

    But Obama plans to raise corporate taxes, which is exactly the wrong thing to do. It will be disastrous. As for universal health care, McCain’s plan for that is actually fairly brilliant. I wish that more people were looking for ways to implement broader access to healthcare without putting it all in the hands of government bureaucrats or an unholy partnership between government and the medical and insurance establishment.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dave I have the original articles to show how LITTLE they are edited. Once in a while I will do a rewrite and then it gets published with NO changes.

    Yes, Heloise, I edit them lightly. I do it because my experience has been that when others get to edit your articles they edit them more heavily than is needed and/or send them back for rewriting.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] If I am illiterate what the fuck does that make you?

    Heloise, did you read what I wrote? I said that you are NOT illiterate.

    Why would a linguist (John McWhorter) SEND me his book unsolicited for a review? Why would then they ask me also to do an interview?

    Why wouldn’t they? You have an interesting writing style and will do a fine job.

    You are really showing your bias. Yes, I am honest I call a spade a spade whether it’s black or white.

    And you’re showing your irrationality, making statements which are untrue based on misreading my comments.

    Finally, why do some of the top news sources pick up my articles? I notice that ALL of your political articles YOU send right to Breitbarts.com, which is right wing!

    Maybe that’s why they pick them up. I wasn’t aware they did. I don’t spend a lot of time checking to see where my articles get propagated. I don’t send them to Breitbarts. I don’t send anything anywhere, except occasonally to DIGG, which you can do on your articles too.

    None of the editors have any control over which articles get forwarded to various other sites.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    To follow up on my comment to Heloise, a google search shows very few of my articles being picked up by breitbart.com.

    Dave

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    I’m over the moon for moon. I just posted how things work here. And yes, absolutely NO one, but no one is rewriting my near-perfect articles. If it is BAD or problemic they shoot it back to YOU or me for fixing.

    And admittedly my movie reviews wander at times. But my last one W. was published with a few words changed, but that did not mean it had problems…it didn’t. The editor changed stuff that was a tad subjective. My last book reviews have all been published with few to no changes.

    They are NOT rewriting the stuff. I too have been an editor. I know my stuff is good. Dave is just sore because he is being attacked here.

    Don’t mean to attack you Dave, just telling the truth. Now you tell the truth and shame the Republigrims.

    Heloise

    PS Moon you are spot on.

  • Les Slater

    “…and I have serious concerns that in an Obama regime we’re going to see more growth of internationalism and state-managed capitalism which is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place.”

    And what makes you think McCain will not follow the same course? Both McCain and Obama shilled for the bailout. But neither had any independent position, nor do they yet. They are both following the dictates of the capitalist class.

    This capitalist class has no room for what THEY consider ‘kook’ solutions. They will do whatever they have to, including further centralization of state power, and attacks on democratic rights. This is totally bipartisan.

    If they can not solve their problems through ‘normal’ means, they, a minority of them at first, will start to take promoting fascism as the only solution.

    A voice in the wind saying we never gave real capitalism a chance will not cut it. Only the working class, which has no interest in maintaining capitalism, will have the potential to stop the degeneration, and take power.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Dave, I check…nearly ALL of your POLI articles go to Breitbart. What the hell are you talking about. Heloise’s articles are the ones that DO NOT ALL go to conservative Breitbart.com

    H

  • Why the Lies?

    Why hasn’t this bogus lie from the McCain camp been taken down?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Heloise, Breitbart decides what they do and don’t carry. Chances are they just have the RSS feed for my articles set to go directly into their site and didn’t do the same for you, because yours aren’t their cup of tea. If there’s a similar left-leaning site I’d look for your articles there.

    And what the hell does ‘repubilgrims’ mean?

    Dave

  • moon

    Heloise,

    Thanks.

    This poster makes a habit of being “spot on”.

    That’s why she is hated and reviled and attacked personally on this site whenever she chooses to post here.

    Most gringos hate, revile and attack the Truth.

    (Which MAY explain why they are hated and reviled in just about every other country on this planet.)

  • zingzing

    dave: “No, I think you’re full of hate because you think that Ashley Todd is somehow a spokesperson for all Republicans. That’s puts you in the same boat with her.”

    dave, you’re the one who said that todd’s “attacker” was somehow a reflection on all democrats (or obama supporters)… so you can’t really say this. in fact, it would be a bit hypocritical for you to say as much.

    i think if you hadn’t said that (way back in the early comments), then you may have gotten away with this a little easier… but adding this… it’s too much.

    how can you say that a man attacking a woman and carving up her face is really something an obama supporter would do? and follow that up with believing that this liar is representative of mccain supporters is somehow hateful? you did the same damn thing! are you hateful? oh, no… of course not.

  • http://www.glosslip.com Dawn

    Les,

    Why yes, I do have an interest in BC and its success and as a member of the editor’s list (I am NOT an editor however) I am well-aware of the inner workings of the editorial process. So while Dave’s post and political views may be all kinds of wrong, as an editor, he does his job. He wouldn’t be here if he didn’t.

    I suggested he add an update to the post, rather than writing a separate post, that’s what I meant, and suggested to Dave himself. It was never my intention he change the original post.

    Also, it’s disturbing so many people find “moon” as their hero. Moon is a frightening display of unbridled hatred and bias. Btw moon – I never called YOU ignorant and stupid, merely your knowledge of BC’s editorial process Talking about overreacting.

    There is such a thing as the “high road.”

  • Clavos

    Only the working class, which has no interest in maintaining capitalism, will have the potential to stop the degeneration, and take power.

    And once they are in power, what’s the plan? How will they, manage the country? With what authority? And toward what end? And how will they accomplish that end?

    What is their ultimate goal? Who will be in charge?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    And what makes you think McCain will not follow the same course? Both McCain and Obama shilled for the bailout. But neither had any independent position, nor do they yet. They are both following the dictates of the capitalist class.

    McCain did vote against the first bailout plan for the tiny amount that’s worth. And the dictates of the capitalist class are what I WANT the government to follow. The capitalist class mostly just wants to be left alone to make money and grow the economy.

    McCain may behave in much the same way as Obama, but I have confidence he’ll be less successful at it and not take things as far as Obama would with a supportive house and senate.

    This capitalist class has no room for what THEY consider ‘kook’ solutions. They will do whatever they have to, including further centralization of state power, and attacks on democratic rights. This is totally bipartisan.

    Again, you’re confusing the capitalist class – the 70% of the nation working for small and entrepreneurial businesses – with the international corporatists. What we need is a government which supports entrepreneurs and free market capitalism and rejects the alliance between government and international corporatists.

    If they can not solve their problems through ‘normal’ means, they, a minority of them at first, will start to take promoting fascism as the only solution.

    Fascism is no worse a solution than socialism is. The end result is basically the same.

    A voice in the wind saying we never gave real capitalism a chance will not cut it. Only the working class, which has no interest in maintaining capitalism, will have the potential to stop the degeneration, and take power.

    The working class ARE capitalists and the ultimate beneficiaries of capitalism. They are more aware than you realize and want the power put back in their hands in a way which only a system which rewards individual initiative and broad based, entrepreneurial capitalism can do.

    Dave

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Let’s be fair, Gentlepeople, this anti-Nalle comment storm is a backlash from anyone who is either politically center or left of center who has ever posted either an article or comment, and was immediately ripped apart by the horde of right-far right editor/commenters that seem to live on this site.

    Well, finally one of them has been proven not as smart as he thought he was. One of them was a little too anxious to publish an article implying “hah-See I told you so” and got the right-wing finger he was pointing at us smashed in the door as we slammed it in his face.

    Dave is not the only one. I’m talking about the group who is convinced that they are never wrong to the point of being self-righteous about it, who seem to be just laying in wait at any opportunity. This faction includes (but is not limited to) Arch Conservative on one end of the far-far rightwing to right wing Franco and Clavos and right of center Nalle.

    Well the resentment has been building for a long time, and the previous comments are the result.

    MY POINT IS THIS SHOULD NOT BE ALL TAKEN OUT ON DAVE. Mr. Nalle has a right to his opinion, but maybe this whole incident will serve to point out that this website needs to find a way to be more politically balanced before it turns into some AM radio Rush Limbaugh talk show where the only opinion that’s valid is the commentator and everyone else’s is stupid.

    Until recently, I personally stopped commenting/writing articles or even visiting this site, simply because the moment I hit enter on a comment, they were all over me.

    I consider Dave Nalle a friend
    Jet

  • Arch Conservative

    That’s right Jet. The only people on this site who insist that they’re always right are the one ones the political right…………

    Now that you’ve said your piece you can get back to that poker game with the tooth fairy, Easter bunny and Santa clause.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Dave: I could sue you for libel for your “Heloise is illiterate” statement. Why? Because as an educator I make a living by helping students increase their “literacy” in science. Science has and is a language. Also teaching, in general, implies that the person IS literate.

    Now when I called you a “liar” well do you make your living by “telling the truth?” Didn’t think so. That was a little personal but a lot true.

    As for feeds, that’s fine. They have picked up a few of my articles. But again you are not telling the truth. Case in point: if they are feed-driven then how is that they get dup articles?

    Dave feeds, you are a Republi-grim! Duh. Okay, since I am illiterate why are most of the teachers here in Texas Yankees? And “grim” means, unhappy, failing, sad, poor outlook, etc. look it up. The ending “can” sounds like “kin” (when spoken) which rhymes with “grim” I don’t think it’s that hard.

    Dave, I didn’t know you were so hateful towards black people. And yes, “illiterate” can be code for “black.” And yes, I do take it personal.

    Beating back GOP trumps being right!

    Heloispeak

  • moon

    Dawn,

    1. You are being merely self-serving when you say that an editor would not be here if he or she did not do his job, as you admit to being on the list yourself.

    2. If folks do not edit in a TIMELY manner the pieces that are submitted–this thread is a good example of why TIMELINESS is crucial and even then is not always sufficient–then you may say that they are doing their jobs (because you are chomping at the bit to be one of them), and I will counter that by saying that they are doing their jobs BADLY. They are partial and unprofessional and they shoot from the hip–just like you do.

    3. You have provided a perfect example of what I said in my post to Heloise–you hate, revile and attack me personally because I do not write bullshit. You may not like reading it, as it strikes very close to the bone in most cases, but that is YOUR problem–not mine.

    4. YOU are the one who over-reacted. You jumped on everybody’s ass who criticized Nalle’s unprofessional behavior because of your self-serving need to JUSTIFY Nalle’s unprofessionalism, and by association, your own.

    5. Although the Hero Archetype is one worth considering and perhaps pursuing for one’s life path, I think it is pathetic that you write that many people see me as a “hero”. It’s a dark day in Mudville (aka Gringolandia) when by someone’s merely having the courage to tell it like it is they are considered to be a hero or even a “hero”. What does that make the rest of you?

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I rest my case Arch

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Jet, conservative posts get jumped on as much or more than left-leaning posts. That’s part of what makes BC so fun and non-partisan.

    However, what is absolutely unforgivable is putting your comments in all bold and centered. That kind of political unorthodoxy must not stand!

    Dave

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Moon, what the hell good do you think you’re doing jumping on Dawn, other than alienating everyone else and wrongly thinking you’ve proven your superior intellect above the rest of us?

  • moon

    Jet,

    I am with you in your analysis except for your final statement.

    I would NEVER consider someone like Nalle a friend. I have higher standards–much higher. No weasels, cowards, twisters of the truth or abusers of power will ever be on my list.

    I have so many friends that I don’t need to consider folks without ethical standards of behavior.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Jet, how self-serving can you get? This was listed under “NEWS” and he starts off by blasting Obama workers. Get a grip. We are not talking about Dave the perfect, nor that some writers do not miss the mark once in a while, and are not getting called on it.

    It’s a blog war, face it. I think that is fine once in a while to clear the air.

    As as old parable goes: “when a judge or a police officer breaks the law the punishment should be more severe, or expect that the backlash created more virulent.”

    That’s what we are talking about. It’s okay to be opinionated, but not an outright political bigot. I am a bigot, I’ll admit it, but try to keep my bigotry in check at least when I am writing as “Heloise”

    Jet surprised at you for missing the point.

    Leslie

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I posted that comment in the way I did, because most of the time when I (and people like me) post comments like that one they are ignored or brushed off with “Just ignore him, he’ll go away eventually” and guess what I do just that, along with a lot of other readers on this site.

    Dave, in my unintellectual way, I’ve been defending you, because I think of you as a friend (despite our political differences).

    Forgive me, I guess I was being stupid again.

    It’ll never happen again.

  • moon

    Jet,

    Back off, Yosemite Sam.

    If you trawl back through this thread you will find that SHE jumped on ME–way yesterday, and is now whining and trying to justify her misbeahvior.

    I couldn’t care less if I alientate you or anybody else.

    If substandard or mediocre intellects are required by you to be acceptable as posters, then the back of myhand to you.

    I have higher standards for friends AND enemies.

  • moon

    Jet:

    I was trying to calm the waters a bit on this thread before leaving for the day by being willing to go along with your “Give Dave a Break” plea–even though I believe that he is the last persron who deserves any breaks because he is an underhanded and duplicitous individual.

    Since you were unwilling to leave well enough alone and decided to bite MY ankles because I am not an anti-intellectual and because I have a PhD and am a professional writer and educator, I hereby withdraw my support for you.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I’m suprised you missed my point Hel.

    We are all human, we all make mistakes.

    We all want our articles published immediately because we lust for the day one of them is actually listed on Google News or Yahoo News as one of the first published, because we know that if we don’t get it in right away, we’ll just be one of the crowd listed way down the list at #2490 and not read as simply a duplicate of the previous 2489.

    That’s the mistake that Dave made-that’s the mistake we all can make, but won’t admit it.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Okay, lost my reading glasses somewhere in the house. Give you a dollar if you find them for me. I take back my lawsuit too. I have been called something akin to “illiterate,” in the past. And your point was that my articles are hard to edit (meaning something I’m sure), but should not be because I am not “illiterate.” Oh, did you say I was “not illiterate?” That’s a double negative, meaning you think I am. Lawsuit back on if you said “I was not illiterate.” I will check later.

    Anyway, I am doing the lawn.

    Dave, that’s called “damning with faint praise.” Thanks but NO thanks.

    Heloise

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Jet, black people do not truncate names like white people do. You do not have permission to call me “Hel” I guess you were being funny…haha.

    No one calls me “Les” but “Leslie” and if they did I would correct them.

    Enough said?

    PS No hard feelings

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Of course this has now boiled down to having a hissy fit over a shortened name. We’re going to run out of sand for the sandbox if we keep throwing it at each other.

  • Arch Conservative

    I don’t know whose skin is thinner, Jet’s or Eight Ball Barry’s.

    They both exhibit persecution complexes.

    They’re both seemingly incapable of objectivity.

  • http://www.thepolitikos.com Heloise

    Okay, looked at original comment and there you did not use double negative. But on the next one you did say “not illiterate.” Fuck, I’m busy.

    What’s the use?

    H

  • moon

    Objectivity, like truth, is a hard deer to hunt.

    But it would defintely behoove folks in Gringolandia to get out their bows and arrows, LEARN TO USE THEM, and go after it.

    Otherwise, it will mean another savage civil war and the toilet of history–both of which seem to be actively fomented on this site.

    And now, the tomates (in Gringolandia, tomatillos) await.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Archness implying someone is incapable of objectivity is the most laughable thing I’ve ever heard.

  • Arch Conservative

    Jet……..

    I guarantee you that if you look at all of the comments on the political threads I am much more critical of the GOP and it’s representatives than any regular who happens to be of the left leaning persuasion.

    But by all means don’t let anything as mundane as the truth get in your favorite super happy terrific funtime activity of bashing me.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Archness feels like I’m bashing him. Great now I have to clean up the pop I just shot out of my nose.

  • Les Slater

    Arch,

    I don’t consider myself as being of the ‘left’ but am one who never gives any support to the ‘dems and libs’.

    Les

  • pablo

    Arch comment 222

    I agree with your comment.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dave, in my unintellectual way, I’ve been defending you, because I think of you as a friend (despite our political differences).

    Forgive me, I guess I was being stupid again.

    I appreciate the support. And I was just ribbing you about the peculiar formatting.

    When it comes down to it I suspect we agree more politically than we disagree. You’re just nicer about it.

    Dave

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Point taken Dave, I’d however like to point you back to the latter half of #212

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Your final points in 212 are well taken. But that basic axiom of covering news in a crowded environment isn’t going to change, because the benefits of being first out the gate justify the occasional balk.

    Dave

  • moon

    Nalle,

    When you are first out of the gate with a legitimate story, do let me know.

    I will buy you a bottle of very good French champagne.

    Until then I suggest that you stop digging yourself any deeper in that hole. You are already more than halfway to China.

  • Zedd

    It’s just not going well for Republicans. Everything keeps going badly. The highs then the aweful lows. Sad really.

    Maybe its time to stop the manuevering and just focus on solving real issues and finding really smart qualified people to work really hard to actually solve them. The image making; war hero, “you betch” hockey mom, patriot,gipper, brush cutting frat house rancher, beat up by a big Black guy stuff is just not working. It does nothing. It doesn’t fix the economy and get people affordable healthcare.

  • Clavos

    It’s just not going well for Republicans. Everything keeps going badly. The highs then the aweful lows. Sad really.

    What’s sad about it? They fucked up royally. They should all be shot, but I’ll settle for naked tarring and feathering and running them out of DC on a rail; maybe lynching one or two of the white southerners on the Mall as an object lesson. Televised, of course.

    That would also serve as a good warning to the Dems not to fuck up on their watch.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    But the problem which comes up again and again, is that no matter how much we want to see the bad Republicans punished, the price of an Obama administration may be higher than we can afford to pay.

    There are a lot of Republican reformers who think that an Obama administration is what we need to force reform on the GOP, but at the same time they’re scared that we’ll lose so much liberty that it will mean oppression and the silencing of all dissent and the end of the two-party system altogether.

    Dave

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    In the end the Democrats will become complacent, and the church buses will roll into the poll stations handing McCain a win, giving us President Palin two years later.

    McClain will eye blink himself to death

  • Clavos

    McClain will eye blink himself to death

    You betcha!

    Funny line, Jet.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I hear that McCain’s eye blinking causes seizures in elderly democrats.

    Dave

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    and why not Dave, Bush’s blinking caused property seizures in middle class democrats.

  • pablo

    I have come to the opinion that Jet is hitting on Dave, (Dave is my friend, Dave is my friend, Dave is my friend, Dave is my friend), and that Dawn is seeking to become a blogcritics editor.

    As to Moon, I must admit that I am far more in agreement with her, particularly with reference to the political editor, as he has shown himself to be rude, condescending, and hypocritical more often than not.

    So much pent up anxiety about the election. I am envious of most of you in a petty way, that is that I do not have a candidate to root for, and sadly realize more of the same equals more of the same.

    I would like to believe in an Obama. Well spoken, black, very charismatic, and sounding so smooth, after 8 years of meanness, criminality, and genocide.

    I know better however, and he does not fool me. He does however have millions fooled currently in their glee and rapture of this man. However all one needs to look at is Brezenski, and know its all a bunch of bs. Rockefeller, Kissinger, the CFR, the Bilderberg Group, the Carlyle Group, are all in cahoots, and know either way, McCain or Obama, he is their boy.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I got into a Big Time trouble when I joined BC and Dave and a few writers and editors helped me out just as I was about to give up.

    Regardless of what’s said, he will always be my friend.

    Regardless of your assinine fantasies Pablo

  • pablo

    dont worry Jet, in the half century that I have been alive, none of my fantasies ever involved testicles, particularly someone elses. Im a goddess worshipper, big bear like sweet honey. :)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Dave Nalle has been attacked here for reporting a story as news that proved (not long after) to be a hoax.

    I haven’t joined in the general round-table condemnation of the man because somthing similar happened to me once here – it can and does happen. In quickly evolving stories, facts reported do change. Unfortunately, Dave decided to be away from his computer to take care of other matters when the hoax he reported as news was confirmed as false. That wasn’t wise, because from the photo, the story had a fishy smell, and given that, and given that he was attempting (unsucessfully) to scoop the story, he ought to have sat at the machine to see if the story did indeed stink. Had he done this, he could have done something to undo the damage to the credibilty of the magazine. When someone is there watching the rudder, the boat is less likely to hit the shoals.

    Dave has a laptop. He could have taken it with him on his errands to keep an eye on this story. He ought to have.

    But one cannot cry over spilt milk, and Mr. Nalle has done what he can to repair the damage. He can’t do more. End of discussion.

    Suggestions have been made that Mr. Nalle resign his position and that it be given to someone else. While this is not a bad idea, the “someone else” willing to do this without compensation does not appear to be on the horizon. I cannot, (I have bills to pay and cannot afford to devote the time to the position that it deserves) and the persons I might trust with the position as a writer, Clavos or Marthe (moon) will not do it. Clavos is selling yachts to those who can still afford them, and Marthe insists on compensation that will not be forthcoming.

    So, we are stuck with present arrangements.

    As to Heloise’s complaints, she should contact other editors when she feels the story she has in pending warrants expedited treatment. That is what I do. Her writing can be difficult to edit – it is be difficult ot read. But there is only so far that one should squelch the voice of a writer and Dave’s erring on the side of light editing is, in the end, good judgment.

    Now let us move on to the other comments about the politics editor. Dave Nalle does publish articles that disagree with his worldview, and as he indicates, he promptly attacks the writers once he has done so. I’m an example of this. Pablo indicates that he feels he has been discriminated by censorship on the site with respect to what he desires to have published, and frankly, the general ignorance about Israel is what allows my point of view to be published here at all. The standard point of view put out about Israel is that of the wheedling and whining gutless ghetto Jews, whether they be in the Hebrew press in Israel or strolling along “J-Street” with the American Jews who think that because they have a checkbook and donate money, they have the right to put us in Israel in harm’s way while they eat prawns, cheeseburgers and drink chocolate milkshakes to wash the meal down.

    But I digress.

    Dave Nalle invited Pablo to write an article about the Twin Towers and the publishers (how many layers of bureaucracy can there be in a magazine where nobody gets paid anyway?) decided to nix the article. This is the right of a publisher, and he doesn’t have to answer to the writers. They are published at his sufferance. That may not be right, but that is the way it is.

    But, Mr. Nalle can be more considerate of the views of those who comment here, and frankly, Pablo’s hostility to Dave Nalle can be attributed to Mr. Nalle’s contemptuous treatment of him. This has nothing to do with what I think of the views of either individual. But we are all people, not mere collections of opinions.

    Leaving all this to one side for a moment, those who will read the tortuous time that Jet Gardner has suffered since being attacked by Somali thugs some years back will realize that Dave has been a friend to Jet. We are all people, not mere collections of opinions, and Dave has done a great deal to help Jet. I wish I could have done as much myself. But Dave could, and he did, which is the point.

    Returning to the subject at hand, I too am disgusted by the contemptous and dismissive treatment often accorded me by Mr. Nalle. But, I have more important thngs to worry about, like catching the 14:30 bus to Jerusalem to resume my role as a police volunteer there.

    Have a good week,
    Ruvy

  • Heloise

    From groovy Ruvy: “As to Heloise’s complaints, she should contact other editors when she feels the story she has in pending warrants expedited treatment. That is what I do. Her writing can be difficult to edit – it is be difficult ot read. But there is only so far that one should squelch the voice of a writer and Dave’s erring on the side of light editing is, in the end, good judgment.”

    Again if you read my comments I have done this. And stopped because when I did I got soundly berated for so doing.

    I would say that your comment is difficult to READ. I will say to you what I said to Sean Hannity and it ended up in Palin’s mouth: We don’t need your help from Israel Ruvy “Thanks but no thanks.”

    Whatever you think of my writing….who gives a crap? If English is NOT your first language or anyone else (who reads here) then reading an article (which contains many idioms and insider stuff) can be challenging.

    French is my second language. And guess what reading articles in magazines is THE most difficult lingo-tango. We have to take critiques, such as your own, with a grain of salt.

    As for editing…we took that elephant down a while back, or could you not follow the logic: editors just read the shit basically.

    Heloise

  • Clavos

    Nice, even-handed comment, Ruvy.

  • Les Slater

    Heloise,

    “We don’t need your help from Israel Ruvy ‘Thanks but no thanks.'”

    I thought Ruvy’s 137 was thoughtful and helpful. Why is it that he’s writing from Israel any sort of issue at all?

    Les

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Heloise,

    English is Ruvy’s first language. He was born and raised in Brooklyn and spent many years in Minnesota.

    …Then again…!

    😉

  • moon

    Heloise,

    That English is Ruvy’s first language has never been a question for me. I am a specialist in foreign language acquisition and can usually tell a native speaker of English from one written sentence.

    Which is why I have outed a number of folks on this site and others who were posing as Venezuelans, Colombians, Bolivians, Ecuadorians, etc. to claim expertise in regard to those countries. They were native speakers of English, as was evident from their use of the language.

    Which is why I was also able to say–and Nalle later admitted it–that Nalle was “editing” Franco’s posts. He also “edited” a few others when he was caught with his pants down with no evidence for outrageously libelous claims about Latin American leaders.

    Probably nothing approaches his use of Vox Populi, however–that was his most successful scam until he made one post under the Vox handle and signed it Dave.

    Ruvy’s use of the English language is excellent–especially considering he has been speaking another language daily for long enough to have the same problems which I have after 15 years of reading, writing, speaking and frequently teaching in Spanish: loss of some English vocabulary and frequent use of second language syntax.

    One of the reasons I blog in internet sites in English is to keep from losing my first language (actually not exactly my first as I was bilingual French and English until I began primary school, but close enough).

    Ruvy,

    Nice post. Only one thing is wrong here, and that is that Dave was NOT away from his computer when the fraud was outed.

    Because he was conspicuously silent I checked through other threads and discovered that on another thread where the hoax was mentioned IN PASSING, Dave posted AFTER that mention. So he was, in fact, in his usual spot with his fingers on the computer keys.

    I have had enough experience dealing with Nalle’s weasling and duplicity that I mentioned on THIS thread after reading his post on another that he would not be able to use the excuse that he had been in the toilet all day and therefore unaware of the hoax having been outed.

    Dave came up with another excuse instead. He is very predictable, our Nalle.

    As for his being replaced as editor, I have been calling for that since I first posted here, as he is abusive, trannical and unprofessional.

    My own unwillingness to do the job is not based on its being an unpaid post–that was why I refused to WRITE ARTICLES for BC. I don’t have time even if I were paid handsomely, nor do I see any professional benefit whatsoever. Truth be known, I consider myself semi-retired now, and am just doing occasional consulting gigs at universities in countries I want to visit.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Dear God, I hope no one “outs” me!

  • Clavos

    My own unwillingness to do the job is not based on its being an unpaid post…

    Not that anyone would even consider offering it to you, were it available, which it is not, nor will it be.

  • pablo

    Thank you Ruvy, you summed up my feelings very nicely.

    pablo

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Hey, Carl Hiassen [sic] Villian,

    I think it’s time to elevate this discussion — not a difficult task. According to your post on another thread, the 1947 Heisler stink pot has two heads. That’s probably sufficient for a 47 foot stink pot, even one heading out to places with dysentery (perhaps a problem, with 220 gal. fuel tanks and only a 40 gal. water tank); but are the heads environmentally sound? How about holding tanks? Electrosan units? How about gray water? These are critical issues, upon which there has been far too little focus. You owe the world an explanation.

    Gosh darn! Sometimes I wish I were sailing again.

    Dan(rag something or other Miller)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Heloise,

    I got back from patrol in J-lem and thank G-d I did not have to much more than tell people to stay on the sidwalk, instead of in the street as is their wont.

    As has been pointed out a number of times here, English is my native language, though as a young child I learnt Yiddish as well from my father, may his memory be for a blessing. This evening, I used it on patrol with people whose mouths dropped with absolute surprise to hear Yiddish out of someone without peyess and a long black coat. Knowledge of mame-loshen has benefited me other times as well, often getting me out of trouble.

    As for editing…we took that elephant down a while back, or could you not follow the logic: editors just read the shit basically.

    I read through the entire comment thread up to that point and tried to pick up on issues that resonated with me. So, I did go back to issues like what editors do. I’m sorry that you have been berated by editors for indicating that an article in pending needed expedited treatment. I’m sorry I didn’t notice that in your comments. That has happened to me at times, and frankly, I have resented it when it did. But I get exposure that is valuable here, so I can deal with it.

    What I think of your writing is not a relevant issue; I’m not an editor here, and unless I win a rather large lottery (impossible since I don’t ever enter them), I will not have time to devote to the job, and therefore, will not seek it.

    I’ll allow you to figure out the point underlying that paragraph.

    Oh, yes Heloise. I WRITE FROM ISRAEL, MY HOME. IT IS NICE, AT LONG LAST TO BE ABLE TO SAY THAT – ISRAEL IS MY HOME. If that’s a problem for you, that’s just too fuckin’ bad.

    Oh, and while I’m at it, get your damned soldiers out of MY country – before something happens and they return in body bags. We do not need your aid, your soldiers or your meddling politicians.

    THANKS, BUT NO THANKS!

    YANKEE, GET OUT! AND STAY OUT!!

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Can you imagine the havok if we actually did pull out of Israel both militarily and financially?!?

  • moon

    I think we would see the playing field leveling itself–and none too soon, also.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Pablo, Clavos, Les, thank you for the kind woids. Thank you DD, for pointing out my native tongue – Brooklynese. Heloise need only have read the tagline at the end of my articles to have learnt that, but, well, she didn’t.

    I’ll make a note to sob to myself over that when I have time…. Now where was that pencil, anyway?

    Marthe,

    Thank you for your kind words as well. If only my Hebrew was up to the snuff needed to let the native types know just where to get off. Life would be so much easier for me – and not for the native types. I, like Ed Koch, give ulcers, rather than get them. I have a 700 page book to burn through for a publisher, but I felt I had to thank you (and the others) before I got back to the important task of putting money on the table….

    Finally, Dave.

    I’m not being condemnatory in my words. But a number of things just had to be said, and it has not been my intention to be vicious or nasty.

    Shavua Tov,
    Ruvy

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jet, it’s spelled “havoc” – you know, like “havoc Coke, it’s on me…”

    Marthe is right; if the Americans did pull out their soldiers, money and meddling politicians, the playing field would level off very fast. She just doesn’t realize which playing field. If we had to stand on our own two feet without the Americans (including American Jews) to hamstring our every move, Damascus would be a rubble, Arab terrorism in Israel would be crushed in about two weeks, and we’d be at war – and winning.

  • moon

    Right.

    Ruvy, in the interest of peace and serenity I am going to let your last comment pass by me into the ozone.

    However, I still think all of Israel would fit nicely into northern England. Let the Brits pay for bailing on the Palestinian Mandate.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Dave,

    No, I think you’re full of hate because you think that Ashley Todd is somehow a spokesperson for all Republicans. That’s puts you in the same boat with her.

    Kind of like you assumed the (false) actions of a black man represent the sentiments of all Obama supporters?

    In response to all those in outrage over this article,

    Is Dave biased? Hell yes. Did his bias influence the way he wrote this story? Yes, he wouldn’t have even written about it if he weren’t biased. Could he have written the article better? Probably.

    Is the same thing true for me and everyone else here? Absolutely.

    Get over it, your whining makes you look like children. Your POV will be best served by clear concise and direct argumentation.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    The title of the article should be changed to “Blogcritics Editor Attacked and Brutalized Over Political Differences.”

  • Clavos

    Bingo, PETI…

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Returning to the subject at hand, I too am disgusted by the contemptous and dismissive treatment often accorded me by Mr. Nalle.

    Ruvy, I have nothing but affection and respect for you when you stick to meaningful topics. My contempt and dismissiveness are reserved solely for your religious delusions, so don’t take it personally.

    Returning to the subject at hand, I too am disgusted by the contemptous and dismissive treatment often accorded me by Mr. Nalle.

    I should write a column under that title, or a shorter variation.

    Dave

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “Get over it, your whining makes you look like children”

    And what does your whining two days after the fact about the whining combined with your need to make a point about Dave lumping all Obama supporters in with an alleged criminal that had been stated multiple times look like?

    Take your untimely narcissism off troll’s bridge.

  • Clavos

    And what does your whining two days after the fact about the whining combined with your need to make a point about Dave lumping all Obama supporters in with an alleged criminal that had been stated multiple times look like?

    Could you translate that to English?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dave: I could sue you for libel for your “Heloise is illiterate” statement.

    Again, I did not call you “illiterate.” Go back and read the sentence again. I already pointed this out to you once. If you do indeed teach English you ought to be able to parse this sentence:

    “Not because you’re illiterate, but because your writing style is idiosyncratic.”

    Look at the first clause. “Not” modifies “illiterate” as in “Because you are not illiterate.” But the order of the words changes so that the second clause makes sense and can be appended.

    Frankly, I’m just flabbergasted by your inability to understand this followed by your ranting and baseless accusations of racism. You need to get a grip.

    Dave

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Ruvy, in the interest of peace and serenity I am going to let your last comment pass by me into the ozone.

    That is appreciated, Marthe. Thank you.

    Over on Desicritics, I ran into this tripe and told the author that I’d forward the following from his article to you to see what you thought of it.

    i>Just as the USA made peace with native Americans by conceding that they had been wronged and compensated them with money and land, Israel must make good the losses suffered by its Arab population and make peace with them.

    This is what I wrote about it…. “From her point of view, one I concur with, the United States committed genocide and never did anything to compensate the Native Americans at all.” Please check out what the gentleman wrote and let me know what your thoughts are.

  • Tink

    Whoever did this should be charged with a hate crime!

    These people have become completely unhinged. I fear for my safety and my family’s if they win the election.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Tink, you are aware that this incodent was exposed as a complete hoax… right?

  • moon

    Ruvy,

    Forcing Native Americans to live on reservations (Gringo Apartheit–or however it is spelled in Africaaner) and then ripping them off for the mineral rights is hardly compensation.

    Money? Give me a break. Why do you think that the only tribes not starving are running casinos?

    So, No–there was no compensation.

    However, that should not set a precedent for not compensating the Palestinians for genocide and land theft.

  • Clavos

    Apartheid. Afrikaans.

  • moon

    Thanks, Google.

    Nice to have an eager beaver [edited] to look up spellings.

    While I do more important things–like buying a fabulous Norman Lansing Raven pot on eBay.

  • Clavos

    Didn’t have to look ’em up.

    Unlike you, I’ve been to Africa several times – twice to South Africa, once to Swaziland, and twice to Kenya.

  • zingzing

    very nice, clavos. now go sit on you yacht and think about what you’ve done.

    seriously. nice day out there?

    i want to go to the beach.

    got a beer?

    oh, for fuck’s sake, now i’m jealous of my own imagination.

  • http://marksaleski.com Mark Saleski

    ah, another fine day to be a proud member of blogcritics.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Does anyone know where the “safety switch” is? This very article released a lot of pent up frustration and anger that some writers have toward the “all powerful-all knowing” editors. Now that that’s been vented (I hope) we’re all turning on each other.

    Someone needs to put out this fire fast before we all self-destruct… and fast!

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Clavos, perhaps is you’d used some of that “trickle-down” tax cut Bush gave the rich for the last 8 years on a new Cadillac or Lincoln instead of buying Yaughts and taking 6 trips to Africa, maybe you’d have saved a few American Jobs which is what it was intended for.

    This is a clear reason why middle-class Americans hate tax cuts to the rich-the damned money goes into the upper-class’ pockets and off-shore accounts instead of into purchases of American products where it was intended.

  • troll

    …I blame it all on “Slasher Cinema”

  • moon

    Jet:

    It was an excuse for clavos to vent his misogynist hatred for me–a woman whom he doesn’t even know. (He also doesn’t even have proof that I am a woman and not, as someone suggested on another thread, a team of grad students.)

    This is a virtual space–to assume anything more is really senseless.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Me too Troll

  • Clavos

    Sorry, Jet. Until the Americans learn to build decent cars again, I’m not buying any.

    I don’t buy yachts, I broker them.

    And my trips to Africa were all business trips (in another industry), which benefited the American economy.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I suspected as much Moon.

  • Clavos

    Funny retort, Jet.

    Props.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Marthe, thank you very much for your comments. They have been copied (with two spelling errors corrected) to the Desicritics article I linked you to.

    This is what I wrote in addition:

    Presently, I’m doing post editing work on a manuscript that outlines the legal rights of the Jewish People to the entire corpus of Mandate Palestine as established by the High Contracting Powers (the UK, France, Italy and Japan) in San Remo Convention in in April, 1920. Their right to do so emanated from the fact that these countries defeated the Ottoman Empire, from which these territories were taken, i.e. the right of conquest.

    I cannot presently go into further detail and will not be engaged in further discussion on the topic. When the book is brought to light, however, there will be a book review published at Blogcritics, which will also be copied to my own blog-site, Ruvy’s Roost.

    Again, thank you.

    Ruvy

  • moon

    Think nothing of it, Ruvy.

    I think I may have just a teeny little issue with spelling pedants.

    It probably comes from being forced to represent my high school in the state spelling bee in 1962–despite my tennis coach going ballistic about his first singles player having to miss 2 matches because of it.

    Boring.

    I hated it.

    Came in 9th or something, and took my prize money down to the most expensive department store–must have been I Magnin’s–and bought a huge killer hat.

    I threw away the other part of the prize–a Webster’s New Collegiate dictionary.

    Then I went out drinking all night with some buddies.

  • Les Slater

    “Their right to do so emanated from the fact that these countries defeated the Ottoman Empire, from which these territories were taken, i.e. the right of conquest.”

    So it all boils down to the spoils of centuries of imperial plunder? And that’s supposed to sound better than basing claims on a God that speaks from behind the curtain?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    It’s not my book, Les. I didn’t write it. I don’t have the ability to put together a legal brief like this. I’m just doint the post editing, not even the editing!

    As to the argument itself, when talking to folks like Dave Nalle, Dan Miller or Clavos, it helps to have a solid legal theory that does not depend on Divine Providence. And the theory espoused here does not.

    Finally, I’m not ablsolutely sure that the High Contracting Powers viewed their actions as plunder in 1920, but you can be sure that plunder was never far from their minds.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I threw away the other part of the prize–a Webster’s New Collegiate dictionary.

    Marthe, I could have never done that. I collect dictionaries, especially of foreign languages. I have 3 twenty pounders of the English language, unabridged all of them, and each one has contributed in one way or another to my understanding of languages. They’ve also contributed to my killer scores at Scrabble….

    I never had trouble spelling, but I have always been a lousy typist. When I took it in 7th grade (or was it 9th?) I got a “C”.

  • moon

    When you live out of suitcases, as I do, big heavy books are not part of your lifestyle.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I used to live on the streets – I know more about travelling light that I want to, Marthe.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    Where’s the article about the skinheads plotting to kill Obama and over 100 black people, or is there a concern it will point out the fanaticism of McCain supporters?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    This article talks about the real thing Somewhere in Ohio (anywhere near Columbus?), a kid got shot by a man trying to stop him from, messing with his McCain lawn sign.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    EB is this a new plot or is this the same one from the attempt in Denver? As far as I know the Aryan Brotherhood is still offering a cash bounty to whoever kills Obama, but they have absolutely nothing to do with the GOP or the McCain campaign. They don’t even support McCain – most of them were for Ron Paul.

    Dave

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Somehow, given his record on immigration, I doubt that those two skinheads were McCain supporters, El B.

    I dunno about an article, but if there is one I think Dave should be discouraged from writing it. He’d undoubtedly manage to spin the story to put the blame on Obama and the Democrats.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Ok, I found it. It’s pathetic. Why would anyone write an article on it? They didn’t even get as far as acquiring the guns they wanted to use in their attack. Their crime seems to consist of a discussion.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Where’s the article about the skinheads plotting to kill Obama and over 100 black people, or is there a concern it will point out the fanaticism of McCain supporters?

    Where indeed, el bicho?

    Why don’t you write one?

    Obviously no one else, Democrat or Republican, was interested in doing so.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    since when did you have to prove an assailant supported the candidate?

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    El Bicho,

    “Get over it, your whining makes you look like children”

    And what does your whining two days after the fact about the whining combined with your need to make a point about Dave lumping all Obama supporters in with an alleged criminal that had been stated multiple times look like?

    Take your untimely narcissism off troll’s bridge..

    Assuming I am reading this correctly..

    1) I don’t have time to come here every day as much as I would like to.

    2) My two points about Dave being biased and the excessive whining are consistent with each other. I said he’s biased, not that he’s a bad person, bad editor, should be fired etc. etc. etc. Nor does his bias invalidate his political ideology. It makes him human. The two positions are not mutually exclusive.

    He obviously didn’t do a great job containing his bias here as his zealousness led him to associate the (false) actions of one Obama person with all Obama supporters.

    I just don’t see what’s to be gained by condemning him for his bias. It doesn’t invalidate his political ideology. In fact, if anything, it invalidates yours because if makes it seem like you can’t disprove his positions by argumentation and that you have to resort to character attacks.

    So yes, I would like to point out to Dave how his biases led him to write this article, but I would also like everyone else to stop condemning him for doing so. I think Dave has realized how his biases led him to make some false assumptions about this incident and his second article is much better.

    And I don’t know if it’s been pointed out yet but I heard on CNN today while at work that a McCain supporter shot his rifle at some kids defacing his McCain-Palin sign. Just some fun trivia..

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