Today on Blogcritics
Home » Mass Bird Deaths Now International Phenomenon

Mass Bird Deaths Now International Phenomenon

Please Share...Tweet about this on Twitter0Share on Facebook0Share on Google+0Share on LinkedIn0Pin on Pinterest0Share on TumblrShare on StumbleUpon0Share on Reddit0Email this to someone

It must be either a massive fraud, like so many crop circles, or perhaps a case of “We are not alone!” It is difficult not to consider some otherworldly explanation for the various instances of blackbirds falling from the sky, for reasons unexplained beyond “traumatic injuries” or “sudden, hard external blows.” Most of us have probably heard of the New Year’s Eve midnight fall of birds over Beebe, Arizona, in which sources claimed more than 5,000 blackbirds, starlings, and sparrows were found dead in yards, on roads, and on rooftops.
Government experts analyzing the dead birds were annoyingly at a loss to provide information. A spokesman said that perhaps the birds had all flown into a large tower. Toxicology reports will be forthcoming.

Days later, although the deaths may have occurred on the same night, New Year’s Eve, Labarre, Louisiana reported 1,000 dead blackbirds and starlings. Labarre is about 400 miles from Beebe. Texas Parks & Wildlife Department biologist Winston Denton used the word “alarming.”

All of this wouldn’t amount to a pea in a porridge if it weren’t for the new information from Falköping, Sweden, which notes a “large number” of birds having died and fallen to the ground on Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, January 4 and 5. The Swedish National Veterinary Institute found the birds to have died of “sudden hard external blows.” There were no signs of infection or illness.

Oddly there have in recent days been reports of dead fish, their deaths defying explanation. Some have suggested a Biblical explanation. A look at the particular relevant passages seems inconclusive. Hosea 4:1-3 mentions the lack of faithfulness, love, or acknowledgment of God. It continues that there is only cursing, lying and murder, stealing and adultery. It also says there is bloodshed and more bloodshed.Then: “because of this the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky, and the fish in the sea are swept away.”

There are other possibilities. Perhaps the birds were shot from a massive, submarine-based bird-cannon from some dark and remote sea. I still like the “We are not alone!” explanation. We can only hope that the coming days will confirm some reasonable, rational explanation (such as the combination of heavy fog and power lines that has been suggested). And we do feel sad for the poor dead birds.

Powered by

About John Lake

John Lake had a long and successful career in legitimate and musical theater. He moved up into work behind the camera at top motion pictures. He has done a smattering of radio, and television John joined the Blogcritics field of writers owing to a passion for the liberal press, himself speaking out about the political front, and liberal issues. Now the retired Mr. Lake has entered the field of motion picture, television, and video game (now a daily gamer!) critique. His writing is always innovative and immensely readable!
  • John Lake

    Fog is commonplace; happens several times each winter. Every driver knows that. If falling birds were accounted for by foggy nights, then why the press coverage? If roadways and roofs littered with winged corpses were an ordinary occurrence, why has the national press brought the dying avians to our attention?

  • brent

    You mean Beebe, Arkansas, not Arizona.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    This sounds like an example of the clustering illusion to me. I’d hazard a guess that sudden mass wildlife deaths are quite frequent, especially when said wildlife comes into collision with human activity. But because the Beebe incident got such wide publicity, people are now sitting up and saying, “Hey, didn’t something like that happen round here a couple of weeks ago?”

  • John Lake

    There doesn’t seem to be a lot of notice by residents in the affected communities of any particularly dense fog that night.
    One would think that birds in a fog would slow down and quickly return to the safety of the ground.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Another question is what birds were doing flying around at night. Most species, including blackbirds, are diurnal. Unless they’re migrating: I don’t know if that was the case here.

    The fireworks hypothesis that has been proposed for the Beebe incident sounds plausible. If there were rockets going off close to a roost, that could easily have disturbed the birds and sent them careening into objects in their terror and confusion.

  • John Lake

    If there were fireworks being viewed at that time, those watching the pyrotechnics would have seen the display, and the plummeting birds.
    “Clustering illusion” may apply.
    Are blackbirds and sparrows ever migratory?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    If there were fireworks being viewed at that time, those watching the pyrotechnics would have seen the display, and the plummeting birds.

    Unlikely, actually, John. It was dark, and the attention of the spectators would have been on the fireworks, not whatever else might have been going on in the darkness. Also, their eyes would have been attuned to the bright rocket bursts. You don’t see spent rockets falling to earth after they detonate for precisely this reason; why would you expect to be able to see birds?

  • John Lake

    Nor hear them?

  • Matt

    Revelation 8
    [8] And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
    [9] And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

    People say it’s common for birds & fish to die but how come so many in the past year? And how come it’s happening in such huge quantities this time around and not the previous years before- if this was so common- I’m sure we would have heard about it before- especially this isn’t the first time fireworks were used for new years-

    I’s happening worldwide- if you google Everglades, chile, Australia, Bosnia, chesapeke bay, kentucky, new jersey, queens, Brooklyn, brazil- fish & birds dying all over the place in recent months- In my opinion God is displaying his wrath- even in the bible it says there will be earthquakes, floods, famines- increase in knowledge, wars & rumors of wars- false prophets rising- no man, not even the angels in heaven know when the 2nd coming will be-

    If you argue that Christians have been saying the end is near centuries ago, I wasn’t told that we were living in the end times a decade ago- I was told that Jesus said he would return to the world a 2nd time- you didnt hear anyone
    Say “We are definately living in the end times”

    Remember how simple life use to be- we didnt have so many earthquakes, increase in knowledge etc- recently alot of the prophecies in the bible are being fulfilled and there are a few more that are yet to come but it’s true that Christians believe more than ever that we are living in the end times-

    How is that the only book in the world that is full of truth, wasn’t written in a day or year but over several years giving several examples of right & wrong and still today no man can ever
    Get rid of the Bible- that instructs us to believe in God the creator telling us that these things will happen… And it’s true- the prophecies are happening and at a faster rate than ever- even in the days of Noah when he said a flood was coming- people just laughed and carried on with life and instead of believing- they were destroyed in the flood- what other book in the world tells you about the city of Sodom & Gomorrah? Its one thing if the city never existed but there is proof that the city was actually there and sulfer balls the size of golf balls entact within the ashes- with a sulfer potent higher than anything seen in the entire world- people didn’t believe Jesus was the son of god and crucified him- but then turned around and said maybe he really was after the earth trembled when he died- You can keep calling us crazy but if if what us Christian say and believe is the real truth- then there are no 2nd chances after death- I can’t imagine being in hell every second for eternity burning in flames without rest- now the time we have on earth is the only opportunity we have to get to know God and make sure we don’t end up in Hell- even studies show that scienctist actually believe hell is inside the earth where the temperature is hotter than the sun-

    Imagine you bought a puppy at the store- you try so hard to give it everything it wants- love, a home, food, but refuses to acknowlege that you are the owner- and your puppy grows up to be angry, vicious, violent, full of hate & no respect- how dissappointed would you be that you are the owner and your puppy refused to love you?

    People get the wrong idea about us Christians- we are not here to judge anyone- that’s God’s job to do when we die- our job however Is to share our knowledge of what we know about God to the world- everyone has a choice whether to believe or not-

    The bible is the only book in the world that explains why we have 7 days- why we celebrate Christmas take off Mas & you have Christ- why the rainbow shines after it rains-

    How many signs do we need to see before we accept the truth? If God said he will rain fire upon the earth- we would turn around and argue that it was a meteor shower- the answer is so much more simple than we put it out to be- obviously god created the stars, the moon, the sky- why we try so hard to find another reason than the obvious-

    If I was God I’d be angry too- we all get disappointed if we created something that didn’t turn out the way we wanted it to be-

    I guess people will only see the truth if you choose to believe it- however don’t think just because we speak about God- that all Christians are crazy- that is only an excuse to end the conversation and be done with it- just like the days of Noah- you heard what was coming but chose not to believe the truth-

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Mystery solved as far as the incident in Sweden is concerned, anyway. The truck driver who hit the birds has come forward. It seems that a flock of them had been attracted by salt which had been laid down on an icy road.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Matt – you’re committing the Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Nor hear them?

    Over the sound of fireworks?

  • John Lake

    Firstly I am immersed in Matt’s comment. The fact of occurrences at midnight on New Years Eve suggest we are indeed in the final days.
    Dr. Dreadful is displaying his Doctorate which must surly be in the field of philosophy. He may be picking at nits.
    I am still solidly behind the “bird cannon” theory.

  • Matt

    How so? He quoted Hosea from the bible, I quoted Revelations- he’s talking about the birds in Arkansas- On the same day a few hours before the birds- 100,000 drum fish were found dead- therefore since the topic is about Arkansas and the fact that reports are being made worldwide- I added the other references- including my point of view and my opinion- since he spoke about religion, aliens, so how is it that I’m pulling a texas sharpshooter fallacy? I think we are pretty much talking about the same topic- since this isn’t just about Arkansas & Sweden- the phenomenon that’s happening worldwide and still in certain places cannot be explained- that’s why I was giving my point of view-

  • John Lake

    Google is going forward with the Biblical viewpoint. I see no mention of a truck driver. This is getting interesting…

  • Matt

    So many fish are dying- europe even reported over 40,000 crabs washed up dead a few days ago- 500 penguins washed up dead in brazil (they call it unusual since about only 10 was up dead every year before this) you know that fish is a big part of the food chain in the sea- they say it wasn’t a virus that killed the 100,000 drum fish because no other species were found dead- it’s one thing if a few fish died here and there but for all of them to die in that quantity on the same day, that’s not normal at all no matter what explanation we try to come up with- and again this being reported all over the world- chesapeake bay reported 2 million, Bosnia hundred thousands- just google dead fish everglades, new jersey- come on people it’s one thing if it happened 1 year ago- and then today- that kind of pattern suggest that it’s normal- but this has been going since last year and in such short intervals- we had fireworks the past years did this incident happen and did it make international news? How long did we have the Internet? We didn’t just get the Internet last year? Did tv stations report these stories before 2009? Even if us humans got a virus such as the bubonic plague- we wouldn’t run around bumping into each other and falling dead within the hour- obviously the fish had no toxins or viruses- lack of fish explain why dolphins, penguins are dying-

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Matt: You are taking the unexplained deaths of a few groups of animals and attributing it as the fulfilment of a prophecy in Revelation which is, to put it mildly, a stretch.

    In the old story, the Texas sharpshooter fires a cluster of bullets into the side of a barn, then paints a target around the cluster to make it look as if that’s what he’d been aiming at all along.

    John: Here is the link to the BBC story which reports the truck driver’s account. You’ll need to scroll down to the last three paragraphs.

  • Matt

    Funny- I didn’t kill the fish or the birds and turn around and say (This is what happened)

    I said, what’s going, this my opinion- since everyone else is throwing out theirs-

  • josh

    These are all good arguements to why this is happening. Why not god? Why not aliens? Why not fireworks? I’m trying not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but at this point in time its impossible… all we have is theory.
    Have you seen the movie Signs starring Mel Gibson? A short clip shows the main actors all gathered in a closet watching a tv news report. A BIRD flies across the sky, stops suddenly as if impact was made, then falls to the ground. The movie creates viewers to believe there are cloaked (invisible) UFOs stationed across the world. Could this be possible?
    A man who I respect greatly once told me a theory. To sum up this theory, he believed that movies on aliens and apocalyptic accurances are made solely to prepare humanity for what was found and hidden by the “govenment” and what is truely to happen in the near future. I was 14 when I was told this… didnt believe it then but now maybe haha.
    This does not explain the mass fish deaths however just food (theory) for thought.

  • Matt

    I’m not saying that what is written in Revelations is happening right now as we speak, its not my place to preach and say it’s happening right now believe or be judged- since John quoted Hosea (as a possibility) likewise- I was quoting revelation (as a possibility) who knows what’s really going on- but since I haven’t seen anyone mention the book of revelations- I felt posting it as an alternative explanation with the intention of “it could be this too, there are some of us who believe this”

    Maybe my English is bad but in order for me to commit what you are saying- I’d have to kill the birds and the fish- then paint a story around it claiming that I intend it to be “this”

  • Kenneth Pakal, aka “Frequency”

    Be cool, everyone. According to the Mayan calendar, the world won’t end until December 21, 2012. We have nearly two years left! Enough time for us to witness the capper End Times event: the election of Sarah Palin as our first woman president in November 2012. Just one word of advice, though: if you plan to celebrate Christmas in 2012, do so early, since we won’t make it to December 25. That’s definitely going to put a crimp into the merchants’ bottom line for the year.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Matt, you are not understanding the Texas sharpshooter fallacy – not that that’s an excuse for committing it.

    The fact that the sharpshooter painted the target himself is neither here nor there. It could just as easily have been painted by one of his admirers.

    The point is that the target was painted after the fact to make random shooting look accurate. You are applying biblical passages after the fact to make what are probably randomly occurring animal deaths look like an act of God.

  • John Lake

    Matt:
    Dr. Dreadful doesn’t blame the bird deaths on you. He makes the point that rather than there being a prediction of bird deaths on January 1, 11, the birds died, then came the explanation.
    I see nothing wrong with your English. I didn’t notice it till you mentioned it.

  • Matt

    But before I got into any detail- I said “I’n my Opinion” I thinks that’s a very important line I’n my first post- I never said it is this- I even questioned could it be- that should make a big difference I’n what you are accusing me of no?

  • Matt

    I’s happening worldwide- if you google Everglades, chile, Australia, Bosnia, chesapeke bay, kentucky, new jersey, queens, Brooklyn, brazil- fish & birds dying all over the place in recent months- (((In my opinion God is displaying his wrath-))) even in the bible it says there will be earthquakes, floods, famines- increase in knowledge, wars & rumors of wars- false prophets rising- no man, not even the angels in heaven know when the 2nd coming will be-

  • Matt

    John I wasn’t saying he was blaming me- I said I’n order for me to commit the Texas sharpshooter fallacy- I’d have to kill the birds and fish (Shoot bullets into the barn) and then paint a target picture around it to make it look like I intended it to be a target instead of what the real meaning of why the bullets where there- however I was trying to say that I never said the reason the bullets were there was because of “this” I was trying to tell Dr Dreadful that since everyone else shared their opinion why it’s there, here is mine-

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Everyone who posts here is expressing an opinion, Matt. That’s the whole point. Holding up a sign saying “this is just my opinion” doesn’t exempt it from being criticized.

    Anyway, not entirely to my surprise, a few minutes’ brief research using Google revealed that, sadly, this sort of thing is really nothing new or even particularly unusual.

  • John Lake

    These ducks died four years ago:
    DENVER – The Colorado Division of Wildlife is ruling out one disease as the potential cause of death for hundreds of ducks.
    The DOW says the bird flu did not kill the estimated 375 ducks that have died since early January at the Metro Wastewater Treatment plant.

    We must search this story for some clue..

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    even in the bible it says there will be earthquakes, floods, famines- increase in knowledge, wars & rumors of wars- false prophets rising- no man, not even the angels in heaven know when the 2nd coming will be-

    Ah, possibly the most misunderstood of all Christ’s teachings.

    Read that quote again. Jesus is not saying that these events are harbingers of the end of the world: quite the opposite, in fact, why is why he warns about “false prophets” claiming that they are. He’s saying that all these horrible things are just the way the world is.

    He then goes on to inform his disciples of how they will recognize the real Second Coming: “For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man” (Matthew 24:27, NIV). In other words, the event will be as plain as day and there will be no mistaking it.

    Clearly, that isn’t the case here, or we wouldn’t be arguing about it.

  • John Lake

    Can anyone explain the phrase, “increase in knowledge”?

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Well, it could be the beginning of the end times, but then you’d have to be able to prove a lot of highly dubious theoretical stuff, starting with the proof of divine existence.

    Some people just need to calm down a little…

  • Matt

    Taken from another website:

         “But you, Daniel,
           shut up the words, and seal the book
           UNTIL the time of the end,
           many shall run to and fro (world travel will increase dramatically)
           and knowledge shall increase.”
           (Daniel 12:4)
    Daniel the prophet (book of Daniel) received some of the most sweeping prophecies found in the Bible.  Prophecies found in the book of Daniel take us from the days of the Babylonian captivity (which Daniel was part of) to the very end of this age . . .

    It is fascinating to see how God told Daniel, after giving him some of the most remarkable prophecies found in the Bible, to “shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end” and then gives Daniel two signs that would help us identify “the time of the end” …

    #1.  The ability to travel from one place to another would be unlike anything seen before in history. 
     
    (It is interesting to note that from the time Daniel wrote this book until almost the 20th century, the speed that man could travel remained fairly constant … limited to the speed of foot, horse, and boat.)
     
    #2.  And knowledge would increase at a rate … and to a point … unlike any time in history.
     
    (It is interesting to note how many reports and articles now brag how the sum total of man’s knowledge is now doubling at a rate unlike anything ever found in the history of mankind . . .
     
     
    Daniel 12:4 Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O you hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can you not discern the signs of the times.

    That passage I’n Matthew is a bullseye-

    You can wake up and see that a storm is coming but you can’t tell what the signs of the times are?

    Check that link out- I find it interesting the part where it says 90% of the scientist that ever lived are still alive today – dunno what year this was written In though- can’t be too long back :)

  • John Lake

    Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O you hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can you not discern the signs of the times.
    That was written 2000 years ago? That’s some very nice writing!

  • Matt

    We’ve come along way I’n the past 2,000 years- Space travel, Television, Medicine, and within the past couple of decades- remember when Ellen de generes said- life not too long ago use to be so simple? These days everything is so sophisticated- all these disorders- back In the day there were no such things as disorders, you were just considered crazy-

    Now we living In a time where cloning, stem cell research- etc

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    A LIST and a MAP of LOCATIONS that have FALLING BIRDS, DEAD FISH and ANIMALS in 2011.

    Interesting…

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    you were just considered crazy

    crazy is the new sane…

  • Matt

    Acts 2:19-21 (NIV) “I will show wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke.  The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to bloodbefore the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.  And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

    Here is just another opinion- did we not have a total lunar eclipse on December 21st 2010, just before New Years?

    Check this link out

    And finally look at this last link

    I’m done :)

  • Matt

    Sorry I left out the scary part- those 4 lunar eclipse that happen from 2014 to 2015 perfectly fall on Jewish Holy days-

    The four lunar eclipses will occur on:

    Passover, April 15, 2014
    The Feast of Tabernacles, October 8, 2014
    Passover, April 4, 2015 and
    The Feast of Tabernacles, September 28, 2015

    This is most unusual. It is a rare occurrence for four lunar cycles to happen on successive Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) observances. It will not happen again for hundreds of years. However, Mark found that a series of four lunar eclipses on these particular holy days did occur in the twentieth century — not once, but twice! The first set occurred in 1949-1950, the year after Israel became a state! The second set happened in 1967-1968, the year Israel liberated Jerusalem! Such a phenomenon is nigh unto impossible, unless it was set up by Divine design. Mark looked back in history and noticed that the last time this set of four lunar eclipses occurred on Passover and Sukkot was in 1493, the year after Columbus sailed the ocean blue and Spain expelled all Jews.

    Mark is convinced that God was telling the beleaguered Jews that He was fully aware of their circumstances! In that case, we wonder what is God telling the Jews in the 1949 and 1967 lunar eclipses? And, as we look at the next seven years, we wonder, “What is God telling Israel through the upcoming lunar eclipses?” Is it possible that these are fulfilling biblical prophecies?

    Solar Eclipses

    In addition to the four lunar eclipses in 2014-15, Mark also found two solar eclipses. They will occur on:

    Adar 29/Nisan 1, March 20, 2015
    The Feast of Trumpets, September 13, 2015

    These two dates are quite significant because they are special days in the Jewish calendar. For example, it was on Nisan 1, the first anniversary of the Exodus, that Moses raised up the tabernacle for the first time and the glory of God descended. Two weeks later, the Chosen People observed their first Pentecost since the Exodus.

    Nisan 1 marks the beginning of the religious festival cycle. Six months later, on Tishri 1, the Jews observe Rosh Hashanah, the Feast of Trumpets. This day is highly prophetic, because it is said to be the anniversary of the Creation of Adam. It is Adam’s birthday. And, even though it is a Jewish observance, it is prophetically significant as a day for Gentile nations.

    It is the day when God will sit down upon His throne of Judgment and take the books in his hand. That is when He will begin the judgment of the world. So, a solar eclipse on Rosh Hashanah could precede the Second Coming of Christ in power and great glory, and fulfill the biblical description.

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Actually, the scary part is where you take a work largely of fiction so seriously.

  • Carlton

    I do agree with Matt. I was raised in a strong Christina home. I have studied Revelation. In my opinion God is beginning to unleash his wrath upon the world. god put the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea. If he put them there He can take them down. I do like your viewpoint Matt, God bless you all, and have faith!

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Your family are Aguilera fans? Don’t like the last album so much but the two before that are great!

  • http://theglenblog.blogspot.com Glen Boyd

    This is an absolutely fascinating thread. Bird falls aren’t anything new — strange things (such as frog falls, for example) like this have been occuring for centuries. What makes these latest instances different is the amount of mainstream publicity they’ve received. But you can find hundreds of similar stories in paranormal literature as well as those “encyclopedia of the strange, but true” volumes. The reason I know thios, is because I’ve always been fascinated by this sort of thing (UFOs too, by the way).

    The most reasonable explanation for the Beebe event I’ve heard is that it may have been lightning. But I also have to wonder if the recent gulf oil spill disaster might have upset the ecology of the area more than the powers that be want to let on.

    As a Christian myself, I also find Matt’s theories equating lunar eclipses with holy days somewhat intriguing. I’m not quite yet ready to make the leap from bird fall to judgment day just yet, but it does kinda make ya’ go “hmmm,” doesn’t it?

    Again, fascinating thread…please keep the conversation rolling guys!

    -Glen

  • Matt

    It’s not just the birds, it’s also fish, doves, seagulls, Dolphins, crabs, Penguins, Fish of different species, Not only that if it was oil spill or a virus, then why In Arkansas only 1 type of fish was affected- fish is a big part of the food chain In the sea- it’s one thing If it happened In one or two states or even three- but it’s happening worldwide- and everyone is reporting that it’s happening In quantities beyond the norm-

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    Well..OK Glen…Like Dr. Seuss’ Grinch, I’m puzzling and puzzling ’til my puzzler is sore. Is this a big deal, or not a big deal?

    I look at Dr. Dreadful’s #27, and think, “OK, it’s no big deal.” Then, I actually read the links and thought, “It’s a big deal, maybe.” The “nothing new” link in Dreadful’s #27 is an article, from January four years ago, that describes two massive bird deaths that had recently occurred in Austin, Texas and Esperance, Australia. “Birds Australia, the nation’s main bird conservation group, said it had not heard of a similar occurrence. “Not on that scale, and all at the same time, and also the fact that it’s several different species,” chief executive Graeme Hamilton said. “You’d have to call that a most unusual event and one that we’d all have to be concerned about.”

    So, back in January 2007, this sort of thing was considered to be, by bird experts like Graeme Hamilton, a big, unusual, unprecedented, deal. Has the unusual become usual in the last four years? Well, I’ll give my puzzler a rest for awhile. This will all fly over, or it will still be here to consider next week.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    many shall run to and fro (world travel will increase dramatically)

    Or it could just mean that many people will run to and fro. If God had meant world travel, why wouldn’t he have said so in as many words? Journeying over long distances wasn’t exactly an alien concept to the Jews…

    To me, that passage in Daniel is saying more or less the same thing that Jesus is articulating in Matthew 24.

    did we not have a total lunar eclipse on December 21st 2010, just before New Years?

    Yes. There are two or three every year. So what?

    Such a phenomenon is nigh unto impossible, unless it was set up by Divine design.

    Ah, now you add the argument from incredulity to the ever-growing and impressive catalogue of logical fallacies you have committed during this discussion.

    In reality, what you describe is not only possible, it is likely, given enough time. Especially if you are actively looking for any and all religiously significant dates that might dovetail with a pet theory. It’s that old painted target again.

    In addition to the four lunar eclipses in 2014-15, Mark also found two solar eclipses.

    Since the path of totality of the March 20 total eclipse is entirely within the Arctic Ocean, and the September 13 partial eclipse will only be visible from the Antarctic and parts of southern Africa, I don’t really see how they are supposed to send a message to human observers in general, let alone the people of Israel.

    Not only that, but your argument relies on it being absolutely fine for a lunar eclipse to occur a week or two before an avian apocalypse in Arkansas, while the solar eclipses in 2015 have to be on the exact dates of two supposedly significant religious festivals. Where’s the consistency?

    Like all attempts to weld ancient prophecies to modern events, your theory starts to fall apart at the slightest prodding.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    I noted with a crooked little smile :} Dr. Dreadful’s attempt to restore calm by reading to us from the Gospels. Yes, Dr. Dreadful, it is true that when Jesus comes back, there won’t be any doubt about it, there’ll be no debate about what just went down; HOWEVER, Jesus also said that before that time comes, there will be signs that is his return is getting closer, just as trees give us signs each year when summer is getting closer.

    MATT, for this reason, I too, found your links about the coincidences of lunar eclipses, Jewish holidays, and major milestones in the establishment of the modern nation of Israel to be quite interesting. It’s good that you are looking forward to Christ coming back: James 4:8 says “Henceforth, there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but UNTO ALL THEM ALSO THAT LOVE HIS APPEARING.”

    But…maybe a little LESS “doom, gloom, and now for the REALLY scary part…” and a lot MORE “WOW!! God so loved the world that he sent his only son…who says, come unto me all ye who are heavy laden, and I will give ye rest!!!” is in order.

    Sure, there are plenty of things going on that make God angry, but we’re supposed to be carrying the GOOD news, the Gospel, aren’t we?

    I mean, if someone comes to me telling me that God’s angry at me, *so* angry that he’s hurling birds out of the sky, what am I supposed to *DO* with that? Give away all my money? Stop watching Family Guy? Go to the yellow pages to try to figure which of the hundreds of churches listed (and that’s just the CHRISTIAN faith) is the “Right One?”

    For what it’s worth, one of the last things about the Bible that I meditated on before I heard about this dead bird hullaballoo was Luke 9:52-56. Sword drill! :) God bless you, Bro Matt and keep looking up! This isn’t criticism of you by the way, I’m totally speaking to myself, too, as I write these things.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Glen Boyd, Irene Athena, Dreadful – all reasonable persons by any means. I find this preoccupation with signs and omens and prophecy not just “not fascinating” but utter humbug. It’s this kind of idiocy which gives Christianity a bad name.

    If you’re truly a Christian, try to live like one, never mind about the day or the hour of the Lord’s coming. The Kingdom of God is already at hand, so try to live accordingly so as to make THAT prophecy come true. Is there anything more that’s required?

  • http://theglenblog.blogspot.com Glen Boyd

    If you follow eschatology (the study of biblical prophecy) closely, the most significant indicator supporting a modern-day “end times” would have been the re-establishment of an an Israeli state after thousands of years in 1947, followed by the Israeli’s reclaiming of Jerusalem in 1967, against near impossible odds.

    These are probably the two most important events, and the ones that separate this generation from any previous ones pointing toward more vague prophecies about “rumors of wars” or a decline in biblical morality for example, that bolster a modern belief of apocalypse in the present tense.

    The rest of these things — whether its the increase of knowledge, the rise of lawlessness, or even something like bird falls — all have precedents. As I said, just consult the nearest “encyclopedia of strange events” and you can find hundreds of true historical accounts similar to the recent events in Beebe, Sweden, and elsewhere in the world.

    This doesn’t make them any less weird of course…and I’ll be the first to admit that when I started reading these stories just after the New Year, it made my radar go up just a bit.

    We may (or may not) be living in the End Times right now. But I just can’t point toward a bird fall incident (or even several of them, along with dead fish to boot) as concrete evidence that judgment day is imminent.

    Where’s the Antichrist for one thing? My understanding of biblical prophecy indicates that he’s supposed to be a fairly major player figuring into all this.

    Right?

    -Glen

  • http://theglenblog.blogspot.com Glen Boyd

    I’ve always been fascinated by these type of subjects, Roger. UFOs, Crop Circles, Signs, Wonders — I’ve just always been a sucker for anything involving high strangeness I guess.

    That said, I find your advice to be sound and reasonable, as I most usually do coming from of one of our “voices of reason” here at the ol’ BC playground.

    -Glen

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    I noted with a crooked little smile :} Dr. Dreadful’s attempt to restore calm by reading to us from the Gospels.

    I always thought that was supposed to be an old-time Mexican gentleman twirling his moustaches. :-)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Sorry for overreacting, Glen. Just know it wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. Should have kept my mouth shut.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    Roger, I could go find the comment where you informed me you intended to play Dr. Faust to my Margarete. I had decided to retire my puzzler for the night as of the end of comment #44. Don’t be introducing fresh wonderments. Nightie night. Don’t let the bed bugs bite.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    LOL ROger.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    It’s a sleepy gal signing off, Dr. D.

  • http://theglenblog.blogspot.com Glen Boyd

    No worries Roger, I took no offense. Just felt the need to clarify my fondness for the weird, that’s all.

    -Glen

  • zingzing

    “Where’s the Antichrist for one thing?”

    …obamaaaaaaaa…

  • Richter Chaos

    In response to what matt wrote on Jan 06, 2011 at 1:06 pm.

    This is not meant to be a personal attack just a comment.

    To start off there are many translations of the “Holy Bible”.

    (Some exsamples of revelations 8:8-9)

    8 The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

    New International Version (©1984)
    The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood,

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Then the second angel blew his trumpet, and a great mountain of fire was thrown into the sea. One-third of the water in the sea became blood,one-third of all things living in the sea died, and one-third of all the ships on the sea were destroyed.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood,
    and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.

    International Standard Version (©2008)
    When the second angel blew his trumpet, something like a huge mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. One-third of the sea turned into blood, one-third of the creatures that were living in the sea died, and one-third of the ships was destroyed.

    GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    When the second angel blew his trumpet, something like a huge mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. One-third of the sea turned into blood, one-third of the creatures that were living in the sea died, and one-third of the ships were destroyed.

    King James Bible and American King James Version
    And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

    American Standard Version
    And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; and there died the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, even they that had life; and the third part of the ships was destroyed.

    Bible in Basic English
    And at the sounding of the second angel, it was as if a great mountain burning with fire was sent into the sea: and a third part of the sea became blood, And destruction came on a third part of the living things which were in the sea, and on a third part of the ships.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    And the second angel sounded the trumpet: and as it were a great mountain, burning with fire, was cast into the sea, and the third part of the sea became blood: And the third part of those creatures died, which had life in the sea, and the third part of the ships was destroyed.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And the second angel sounded his trumpet: and as a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea, and the third part of the sea became blood; and the third part of the creatures which were in the sea which had life died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

    English Revised Version
    And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; and there died the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, even they that had life; and the third part of the ships was destroyed.

    Webster’s Bible Translation
    And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

    Weymouth New Testament
    The second angel blew his trumpet; and what seemed to be a great mountain, all ablaze with fire, was hurled into the sea; and a third part of the sea was turned into blood. And a third part of the creatures that were in the sea–those that had life–died; and a third part of the ships were destroyed.

    World English Bible
    The second angel sounded, and something like a great burning mountain was thrown into the sea. One third of the sea became blood, and one third of the living creatures which were in the sea died. One third of the ships were destroyed.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    And the second messenger did sound, and as it were a great mountain with fire burning was cast into the sea, and the third of the sea became blood, and die did the third of the creatures that are in the sea, those having life, and the third of the ships were destroyed.

    There are many more, but to list them all would be a waste of space.

    To quote Matt “the only book in the world that is full of truth”

    How is this the only book full of truth if there are so many translation availibe? With so many translations and revisions, how could the truth not be lost?! To say “the only book in the world that is full of truth” is a lie, is a math textbook not full of truth, or how about the countless other instructional books that are out there.

    To quote Matt “People say it’s common for birds & fish to die but how come so many in the past year? And how come it’s happening in such huge quantities this time around and not the previous years before- if this was so common- I’m sure we would have heard about it before- especially this isn’t the first time fireworks were used for new years-” “It’s happening worldwide- if you google Everglades, chile, Australia, Bosnia, chesapeke bay, kentucky, new jersey, queens, Brooklyn, brazil- fish & birds dying all over the place in recent months-”

    Actually it is a common occurance for large numbers of birds fish and other animal to die like this. There are many reasons for things like this to happen,extreme enviromental changes, diseases or plagues, plant die offs, natural disasters and so on. The reason it has become such a big deal for people now is the fact that technology allows for more information to be had, thus more people will panic when they see news from many sources about similar instances. This is really not the unusual thing that people are trying to make it into, a lot of things like this happen without anyone documenting it. Most of the time, when many animals die at once, they do it far from our daily lives in fields, caves, forests or national wildlife refuges, where animals often live at unusually high concentrations, and diseases can spread rapidly.I have also personally witnessed a flock of birds numbering in the hundreds during a forth of July celebration become spooked buy the fireworks and fly into building, power lines, and even into the ground at high speed killing all but a handful on impact. The small number that survived the impact did die shorty after due to their injuries.

    To quote Matt “In my opinion God is displaying his wrath- even in the bible it says there will be earthquakes, floods, famines- increase in knowledge, wars & rumors of wars- false prophets rising-”

    Earthquakes, floods, have been happening since the forming of the planet we call earth. Famines, increase in knowledge, wars & rumors of wars, have been happening since the dawn of humanity. Where there are humans there are legends, stories, and false prophecies. False prophecies are wielded like a weapon by false prophets, to induce fear as a form of control.

    To quote Matt “If you argue that Christians have been saying the end is near centuries ago, I wasn’t told that we were living in the end times a decade ago- I was told that Jesus said he would return to the world a 2nd time- you didn’t hear anyone
    Say “We are definately living in the end times””

    The fact if the matter is there has been many documented instances of Christians believing that they where living in end times. Just because you where never told “We are definately living in the end times” dose not mean that people have not been saying this very thing for a long time. As a former christian I can honestly say I have been hearing this very statement for the majority of my life.

    Ignorance only breeds stupidity. Not aimed at you Matt

    Definition of IGNORANCE
    : the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness

    To quote Matt “we have to get to know God and make sure we don’t end up in Hell- even studies show that scienctist actually believe hell is inside the earth where the temperature is hotter than the sun-”

    In the national academy of sciences
    72.2% disbelieve in God
    20.8% have doubt or agnosticism

    I imagine the stats for scientists that believe in hell are roughly the same.

    As for studies “show that scienctist actually believe hell is inside the earth where the temperature is hotter than the sun” this was taken out of context from a long forgotten text about our earths structure.

    To quote Matt “Imagine you bought a puppy at the store- you try so hard to give it everything it wants- love, a home, food, but refuses to acknowlege that you are the owner- and your puppy grows up to be angry, vicious, violent, full of hate & no respect- how dissappointed would you be that you are the owner and your puppy refused to love you?”

    This puppy was never disciplined and needs to be put to sleep before it hurts someone. Ha Ha Just a joke.

    To quote Matt “The bible is the only book in the world that explains why we have 7 days- why we celebrate Christmas take off Mas & you have Christ- why the rainbow shines after it rains-”

    Not true many texts explain rainbows The refraction of light into its respective spectrum, due to the shape of falling droplets of water.

    Why we have seven days in the week is explained in many books not just the bible, do the research. Most Latin-based languages connect each day of the week with one of the seven “planets” of the ancient times: Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. French, for example, uses:

    English French “Planet”
    Monday lundi Moon
    Tuesday mardi Mars
    Wednesday mercredi Mercury
    Thursday jeudi Jupiter
    Friday vendredi Venus
    Saturday samedi Saturn
    Sunday dimanche (Sun)

    It is interesting to note that also some Asiatic languages (for example, Hindi, Japanese, and Korean) have a similar relationship between the week days and the planets. Extra-biblical locations sometimes mentioned as the birthplace of the 7-day week include: Babylon, Persia, and several others. The week was known in Rome before the advent of Christianity. There are practical geometrical theories as well. For example, if you wrap a rubber band around 7 soda cans (or any other convenient circular objects). You get a perfect hexagon with the 7th can in the middle. It is the only stable configuration of wrapping more than 3 circular objects. Four, 5, and 6 objects will slip from one configuration to another. Ancients wrapping tent poles, small logs for firewood, or other circular objects might have come upon this number and attach a mystical significance to it.

    Like I said do the research.

    To quote Matt “People get the wrong idea about us Christians- we are not here to judge anyone-”

    I am not here to judge people either,I am just here to urge people to educate their self, and then make am informed decision about what the truth really is.

    In the end science will lead us to the truth what ever that may be.

    Only logical thinking can yield us the truth, not fear of burning in hell for eternity. Not fear of a higher power, Just scientific logical thinking.

    I tire of this.Goodbye and goodnight.

    -Richter Chaos-

  • http://cristiannegureanu.blogspot.com/2011/01/kfwr-official-hundreds-of-dead-birds.html Alex

    - The Core is a 2003 American disaster film… Birds gone crazy (VIDEO)… Nat Geo (Dec 24, 2009): North Magnetic Pole Moving East Due to Core Flux… Discovery (Aug 25, 2010): IS THE SUN EMITTING A MYSTERY PARTICLE?… LiveScience (29 July 2010): Antarctica Experiment Discovers Puzzling Space Ray Pattern… Nat Geo (Nov 19, 2008): “MYSTERIOUS ASTROPHYSICAL OBJECT that’s bombarding Earth with cosmic rays”

  • John Lake

    Mercy! :>/

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    The excellent website Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics, which critiques feature films on their scientific accuracy (or more usually lack of), rates The Core as the worst movie of all time.

  • John Lake

    the core… no kidding..

  • John Lake

    But you know, Doc, I could have said –
    It has been my consistent view that God, whatever we perceive him to be, – a transcendent order, is my preference, – created all living things to view and experience with him the incredible infinite universe. How sad it would be if the stars, and planets, and comets, asteroids, black holes… all existed for trillions of years, with no living thing to ever witness them, see them, know about them. The idea is incomprehensible. Thus God made the animals, the humans, the fish in the ocean, the bugs, the snakes and lizards, lions, tigers, dust mites, creatures in space on other worlds, to share his creation and to witness it. And to witness life.
    So if that is true, does it follow that he would strike down in flight innocent birds, enjoying their day in the sun, or their night under the stars, to send some message to man? Would a caring God kill fish or pelicans, or any of his creatures mercilessly, to send a warning, or omen, or portent to man? It seems unlikely.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    John: the anthropic principle at work. It’s tempting to think of the universe in all its complexity as a work of art, which would be wasted if there were no-one around to appreciate it. But really, if we’re honest with ourselves, we only think that because we can perceive the universe.

    The place was around long before we were, and will still be here long after we’ve disintegrated into space-dust.

    There’s no reason to think that it really is a work of art. In fact, it would be a pretty strange painting that could only be appreciated by the figures within it.

  • John Lake

    It may go beyond being just a “work of art”.
    It is home to inconceivable numbers of living and self aware creatures. I still hold that it would be sad indeed if all that I mentioned, plus trees, and oceans, and wind and rain, all were to come and go without anyone to see even know about it.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    John, if no-one were in the universe to perceive all of these things, then there would be no-one to be sad about it.

  • John Lake

    I would still be sad…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to be nihilistic or anything. I think we are incredibly lucky to have evolved to be able to discover and appreciate some of the amazing wonders that our universe contains.

    It’s tempting to think that some outside agent must have brought this universe into being. The idea makes sense to us as a creative species. But then you have to wrestle with the question of where that creator came from, and so on ad infinitum.

    By no means does this exclude the possibility of creation. In contemplating the universe, I myself find it highly probable that it was designed and manufactured by someone or something which can only be called God. However, in my more self-disciplined moments I recognize that this could just be the anthropic principle working in me, too: because we make things, we conclude that the universe must also have been ‘made’.

    We at least know with a high degree of certainty that the universe did indeed begin and hasn’t been here forever. But – without necessarily being the correct explanation – quantum physics does offer a plausible scenario which enables it to have sprung into being literally out of nothing.

  • John Lake

    The belief in an aware supreme being is an anthropomorphic concept; but that is acknowledged by the often applied notion that we are made in the “image and likeness of God.” We can deny forever that there could ever be an existence which transcends normal mathematical order. Just when we convince ourselves that we will take pragmatism to its limit, and guide ourselves with freedom from the mystery of the unseen, something will happen to undermine that new thinking.
    In truth, the coming years, decades, centuries, will see an end to religion; or maybe a change that we can’t anticipate from here. Someone should write a novel.
    We only suspect that the universe must have begun at some point because we are unable to conceive of an alternative explanation. Physicists insist on a big bang. Philosophers such as myself prefer to think the universes were always here, time and space, and always shall be. No end. No expanding limit. Rather, space and time are absolutes, and as impossible as it is to grasp, they shall always exist. The fact that we cannot grasp infinity, and therefore insist to the maximum other explanations – the big bang – says a lot about us. Why should we even try to understand existence, when we are so clearly incapable of doing so?
    Quantum physics? I often suspect Einstein went to extremes to fill his students at Harvard with awe and wonder! All the talk of time travel, and wormholes – did he really mean it?
    In Switzerland they announced they would create black holes, big bangs, and God particles. Rubbish. A black hole is a trillion galaxies with a trillion stars in each! We are never going to see a black hole in an accelerator. Or a big bang. (Well maybe). The God particle it turns out is a force, like magnetism, or gravity, that holds the atoms together.
    They now acknowledge that the universe may be endless, as I said above. They allow that in some cases matter may exceed the speed of light – at the beginning of the universe, and in subatomic particles in stars -. They also acknowledge that there may in fact be an ongoing series of big bangs. They change it daily.
    I have to work on an article of a political nature. See you later.

  • lydia

    Im sorry guys, but im gooing to have to side with MATT on this one. Its crazy how we as people can go to a library with thousands of books and magizines,and intake certain events/ stories. yet the OLDEST book in the world inspired by God himself… people act like they don’t grasp the concept. i love science, it was my best subject in school, but when it comes to the spiritual aspect…its like common sense to me over science. its okay matt, no need to waste your breath any more. God already said ” Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that jesus is Lord.” you’ve done your part sweetie. thank you so much, for blessing me with your post:)

  • John Lake

    I absolutely agree that The Bible was inspired by God.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Its crazy how we as people can go to a library with thousands of books and magizines,and intake certain events/ stories. yet the OLDEST book in the world inspired by God himself… people act like they don’t grasp the concept.

    Lydia, it isn’t a question of not grasping the concept of anything. I actually think that I grasp the concept(s) of the Bible a lot better than Matt does. Understanding a piece of writing, though, doesn’t mean you have to accept it. If that were true, then you’d have to accept the Talmud, the Quran, the Baghavad-Gita, the Book of Mormon, Dianetics and dozens of other holy books. If you think people are confused now – just imagine that!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    In Switzerland they announced they would create black holes, big bangs, and God particles.

    No, that was never claimed. One of the goals of the LHC is to detect the Higgs boson, not to create it.

    A black hole is a trillion galaxies with a trillion stars in each!

    Wrong again. A black hole is a region of space with a mass so great that not even light can escape its gravitational pull. That said, even a supermassive black hole is, by orders of magnitude, nowhere near as massive as that.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    @70 … only the Bible?

  • Chrisb

    I’d like to be the first to put forward the wacky theory that the birds flew into a invisible alien craft, this theory would explain the massive trauma they suffered. Also some of the birds were reported to have blue on their beaks, I think we can explain this by the blue forcefield radiation from the craft, so I think that covers the birds. Now onto the fish, between 2007 and 2009 eight wind turbines worldwide were servearly damaged/dented or sometimes completely knocked over due to unexplained reasons. Invisible ufo’s obviously! This explanation proves they can lose control or crash. Maybe they are everywhere now and their losing control and crashing into the sea killing huge schools of fish. I think you’ll agree this is highly likley! And finally for the crabs… The aliens obviously stole there brains cause everyone knows crabs are the most intelligent species on the planet.
    Hope you like my theory/story :)

  • John Lake

    How can any thinking person fail to concede that the birds were in the descending flight path of some sort of, for lack of a better word, flying saucer, and they paid the ultimate price!

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    John: are you being serious? We aren’t “made in the ‘image and likeness of god'”, that’s just what somebody thought back in the dark ages.

    Continuing, “We can deny forever that there could ever be an existence which transcends normal mathematical order”. I’m not aware that anybody is denying that there “could ever be” such an existence, but there is no denying that there isn’t any evidence to support the notion that there is such an entity.

    I hope you’re right that we will see an end to religion, probably not in our lifetimes but I trust we will one day leave behind such superstitions.

    Perhaps the difference in our approaches is that you seem to rely more on philosophy and what you would prefer to think, whereas I am encumbered by a determination to see only what there is to be seen, not what I would like to see.

    I would rebut more of your notions but it would get repetitive so I’ll limit myself to just one more – why on earth do you think there is a problem with grasping infinity? I’ve taken it for granted most of my life…

  • John Lake

    Einstein I thought had a problem with that. He couldn’t conceive of a universe that was always there, perhaps empty, but still with the capacity for measurement and occupation, and without limits. Space is an absolute. Take your imagination to the farthest limits possible, any notion of an outward limit to SPACE and you have only begun.What is on the other side, more of the same. Always and to infinity.
    Scientists insist on a point so small as to be non-existent, from which came all the time space and matter in existence today.
    I concede that it may be a flaw in their equations. It is true that if we draw lines – mathematical lines – to a point of intersection, they lead to a point of non-existence. It holds up. But the notion that all that is came exploding from such a point, before which there was NOTHING! doesn’t work for me!

  • ashley

    Not to get to involved but in Matt’s defense you are all creating theories after the fact. If you had created the target first I would be suspicious of your faultless accuracy. Just because Matts opinion is religious and not science fiction doesn’t make it the only theory worthy of scrutiny.

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Ashley, I see you have mastered the fundamental faithist skill of speaking in tongues.

    You are getting involved in Matt’s defence, although not actually helping his perspective.

    Matt’s opinion is just that, his opinion; however, as it is based on what is largely a work of fiction, it does make him and his ilk sound rather foolish and superstitious.

    Finally, what on earth does science fiction have to do with anything?

  • John Lake

    In preparing this article, I hoped to achieve a light touch. But I did leave considerable room for the Biblical discussion that followed.

  • http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/a-nasty-mathematical-myth/#comments Irene Athena

    Chrsitopher, more than one NON-faithist has admitted to being encumbered by the refusal to see that which he would PREFER NOT TO SEE. It’s ABSOLUTELY possible to conceive of a world without God. It’s actually the path of least resistance for many, including some who say they believe they while ignoring God and living as if he weren’t there.

    Furthermore, if you say that you are comfortable and accept the idea of the INFINITE, but cannot be comfortable with nor accept the idea that people of many DIFFERENT faiths have experienced possibilities that exist in an INFINITY of possibilities, then I do not believe you.

  • http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/a-nasty-mathematical-myth/#comments Irene Athena

    And I was going to ask why you said #70, John Lake. That was interesting. Did you mean that God was in back of the wonders of nature that inspired the writers of the sacred book, or that God himself had something to do with the words?

  • John Lake

    I absolutely agree that The Bible was inspired by God.
    The Bible could not have been written by men without divine intervention. Although written 2000 years ago, it rivals the writing of Wm. Shakespeare, the greatest by far of all human authors.
    I also believe that if we strive to do our best in God’s will, and if our understanding of his will is accurate or close, then he will aide and support our efforts.

  • http://blogcritics.org/culture/article/a-nasty-mathematical-myth/#comments Irene Athena

    I am happy you feel that way about the Bible, John Lake. I can’t pick that book up anymore without being blessed. It didn’t always use to be that way. I mean, I beleived, but it was kind of dry and brittle, you know? But then I noticed that Jesus said in the Bible, My sheep know my voice and also, he who has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is who loves me, and he who loves me will be loved by my father, and I will love him, and will disclose myself to him.

    It takes a long time sometimes, and patience, and there are dark nights of the soul, as you may already know, John Lake. But the journey is worth it.

    Well, the family will be home in a few minutes, so I better say goodbye to my Internet friends. Have a good weekend.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Is Shakespeare lesser? You’re avoiding the main question – the meaning of inspiration.

  • John Lake

    Irene left to join the family. Jesus may have been a precursor to the like of S. Freud, when he (Jesus, not Freud) cast out the confusion in the hearts of men, and sent it into swine who went running off.
    Shakespeare. I call him the greatest writer the world has known. – But now I like the short stories of Tennessee Williams.
    I’m awful tired. they just published my new article in “politics.”

  • Servant

    in the end times there will be a deception so strong that even the preachers and life long christians will be decieved. we are now for sure in the end times, the deception is almost complete, someone that posted before spoke of a respected individual giving him a theory that tv and movies were concentrating on ufos to prepare us for what the government is hiding. and that the “truth” will be easier on us because we have watched said tv and movies about aliens. first, lets get a few facts straight, the government of every nation IS promoting ufo movies and tvs, second the leaders of every nation are in the pocket of satan as stated by God, third, satan is the ruler of the air on this earth, and fourth the government is hiding ufos from us, they have built them with the help of satan. you will all see them soon, and they will claim to be our God, when in fact they will be the deciever satan and his angels. how strong of a deception would it take to make a preacher leave his pulpit?? that is the only thing. it will promote peace for a time, as we “learn” about the “truth” and that is how the impossible task of one world religion WILL come to pass, Muslims, Jews< christians, Buddhists will all look up to the sky and listen to the “truth” and will shake hands with sworn enemies and everyone will think all the answers to our lives will be given. One world government and one world religion would be impossible without this deception. and as the days go by more and more people will become a part of this “religion” and the mark of the beast will be handed out to the new “believers”, and only a few will not be awed by the amazing deception, only a few will still believe, and when people dissappear it will be attributed to the “gods” needing them, not the rapture, although it will still scare husbands and wives that knew there loved ones were not new “believers” that they were Christians. and more will come to there senses when hell on earth breaks out. open your eyes, be not decieved, for the day of the Lord cometh soon. many of you reading this will scoff, but the hour draws near for you to become one of the chosen…..dont wait until it is too late. Amen

  • James mattinson

    If the cause were fireworks why does it not happen every New Year.
    For those who look to the scriptures for an explanation they might be interested to remember that the world’s human population exceeded 6,666,666,666 for the first time last year. 1/1/2011 also adds up to 6.
    Where are the autopsy reports from the veternarians?

  • James mattinson

    Mr. Lake,
    Just how much of the bible do you think was divinely inspired?
    Do you think the Dead Sea Scrolls, including the Thomas gospel were also divinely inspired?
    When did divine inspiration cease? Was it before or after the Nicean Synod?
    Are Popes divinely inspired on a daily basis?
    At what point did Jews cease to be God’s chosen people?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    If the cause were fireworks why does it not happen every New Year.

    It probably does. But it doesn’t always make worldwide headlines.

    For those who look to the scriptures for an explanation they might be interested to remember that the world’s human population exceeded 6,666,666,666 for the first time last year. 1/1/2011 also adds up to 6.

    How does that explain anything?

    Where are the autopsy reports from the veternarians?

    Here.

  • Matt

    I just wanted to say that I think answers to the surroundings around us are much more simple than what we think- this increase In knowledge I believe tends to make us overwhelmingly ask more questions- and In reality these constant questions tend to lead us away from simple answers by giving us excuses-

    For those who are not religious tend to condemn those who are- I believe that if you have “Faith” in something and truly/strongly believe I’n that faith- there is no need to complicate the situation with so many questions- otherwise what’s the point In having faith In the first place?

    I do believe In God & when he said “these things are going to happen” my faith tells me- don’t question God and believe what he says-

    I also believe the world is built around influence- we choose what path we wanna take In Life- we also choose what we want to believe- Being that I’ve studied the bible and have compared events from the past that are clearly written- I made a choice to have my belief In what the bible tells us-

    It’s also passages like these that was written thousands of years ago

    Paul tells Timothy in his second letter what it will be like in the last days: 

    2 Tim  3:1  This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

    3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

    4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

    5  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    6  For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

    7  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 

    Yes those who don’t agree will scoff- but im not here to criticize anyone elses belief- but to only share mine-

  • Ruvy

    Evidently what has happened is that thousands of birds and fish have been reading this comment thread and felt that humanity had sunk so low that the only solution for them was mass suicide out of shame over the level to which humanity had sunk. That’s gotta be the reason….

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    I just wanted to say that I think answers to the surroundings around us are much more simple than what we think- this increase In knowledge I believe tends to make us overwhelmingly ask more questions- and In reality these constant questions tend to lead us away from simple answers by giving us excuses-

    OK then. Explain quantum mechanics to us in 50 words or less.

    I believe that if you have “Faith” in something and truly/strongly believe I’n that faith- there is no need to complicate the situation with so many questions- otherwise what’s the point In having faith In the first place?

    Far be it from me to cast aspersions on yours, Matt, but I submit that faith without doubt and questioning isn’t worth much at all…

    “If you scream for insight and call loudly for understanding, if you pursue it like you would money, and search it out as you would hidden treasure, then the Lord will be awesome to you, and you will come into possession of the knowledge of God.” (Proverbs 2:3-5)

    Paul tells Timothy in his second letter what it will be like in the last days

    Sorry, doesn’t wash. Paul is just talking about human nature. What period of human history is his description not true of?

    And isn’t it prideful, therefore, to conclude that of all the generations since the life of Christ, YOURS just happens to be the one that will witness the End Times?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Dr Dreadful Likes Ruvy’s #92… :-)

  • John Lake

    Ruvy says the birds opted for out.

  • Matt

    Dr Dreadful- who made quantum mechanics? Man? So one day a man woke up and said- I’m the creator of quantum mechanics and so shall I claim it to be me mine –
    I believe there is a creator behind all creations- Sure a man can build a house – In fact several men can build a house and even many men can build the same house – however who or what came up with the concept of building houses?

    The point is- a house was not built without a creator- it didn’t just mysteriously appear out of thin air-

    You are trying to challenge me with science & religion-

    People til this day ask how did Noah build his arc with such precise accuracy and In the bible it tells us-

    Genesis 6:13

    14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. 15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. 16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.

    17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. 18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons’ wives with thee.

    Obviously Mathematics has been around for a long time-

    For you to ask me to explain In 50 words or less quantum mechanics would be the same as asking you to explain In 50 words or less who made it?

    Again asking so many questions when the answer is more simple than we make it out to be-

    I believe that In Genesis it’s says
    Genesis 1

    The Beginning
     1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    If God has such almighty powers to do that- then obviously he was the power to create quantum mechanics-

    Everything God created is around us- but the day we are born is
    The beginning journey to figure out what and how he created it-
     1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
     2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
     4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
    6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
     8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”
     10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
     11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked?

    The term naked existed before Adam & Even knew what the meaning of the word meant- does that mean man created the term & meaning?

    Obviously it existed without their knowledge- yet they did not know until they ate from the tree of knowledge of good & evil-

    Matthew 16:3
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    “And in the morning, ‘There will be a storm today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Do you know how to discern the appearance of the sky, but cannot discern the signs of the times?

  • Matt

    Far be it from me to cast aspersions on yours, Matt, but I submit that faith without doubt and questioning isn’t worth much at all…

    What would the world be like without good & evil-

    However which side do you choose I’n your belief? If you choose to question faith with doubt- eventually you will come to a conclusion of which you believe more-

  • Matt

    And isn’t it prideful, therefore, to conclude that of all the generations since the life of Christ, YOURS just happens to be the one that will witness the End Times?

    It would be if I said that- and if the bible said that too- however…

    Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

    Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

    Revelation 20:11-12 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

    Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    I think what that tells us is that everyone will witness the end times-

  • Matt

    Matt’s opinion is just that, his opinion; however, as it is based on what is largely a work of fiction, it does make him and his ilk sound rather foolish and superstitious.

    I don’t believe the bible is “a work of fiction”

    If it were- then why does the ashes of the city of Sodom and Gommorah still exist?

    Does Jerusalem not exist? What about Bethlehem? Or Egypt? And the
    Red sea?

    If you actually read the bible- a lot of the writings are actually about world history-

    2 Timothy 3:16 (New International Version, ©2010)

    16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    For you to ask me to explain In 50 words or less quantum mechanics would be the same as asking you to explain In 50 words or less who made it?

    Matt, you’re asking us to accept that the universe is a lot simpler than we make it out to be. Quantum mechanics – the set of rules by which the universe works – is not, as far as I can divine, simple, so the ability to describe it in 50 words or less would go a long way to supporting your claim.

    Stating baldly that “God made it” and that we should leave it at that not only flies in the face of our inquisitive human nature; it’s also insulting to God, for my money.

    I know that if I were Leonardo da Vinci and had spent months working on the Mona Lisa only to have people walk into the gallery, glance at it, say “oh, that’s a good one” and wander off again, I’d be pretty ticked off.

    It would be if I said that [the bird and fish deaths herald the End Times]

    Then what are you saying? What’s with all the dead animals?

    Does Jerusalem not exist? What about Bethlehem? Or Egypt? And the Red sea?

    Paris, London and the Mississippi River exist too. Does that mean The Three Musketeers, Bleak House and Huckleberry Finn aren’t works of fiction?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    You can if you’re proficient enough in mathematics.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    No, Roger, you can’t. I’ve read books by some of the world’s most respected quantum physicists, and all of them comfortably exceed 50 words.

  • Mike

    Matt – I agree with almost everything you’ve said, with the exception of the second coming. “The day and the hour unknown” (if that is what you were implying) refers to the third coming of Christ. The second coming is shown…

    Heb 9:27-28: “Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.”

    Luke 13:6-7… Jesus preached in Israel for 3 years, was persecuted, and crucified.

    Rev 6:13-14… the stars in the sky fell to the earth (the Jews wore armbands with the Star of David during the holocaust), as late figs drop from a fig tree(nation) when shaken by a strong wind (war). The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up(atom bomb), and every mountain and island was removed from its place… then people hid in caves to escape the nuclear fallout. So how does this play into the second coming of Christ?

    Matthew 24:32-33… Learn this lesson from the fig tree: as soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you will know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it(he, footnote in NIV) is near, right at the door…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    “The day and the hour unknown” (if that is what you were implying) refers to the third coming of Christ.

    The THIRD coming?!?!?

    Exactly how many runs at this does he need?

  • Mike

    First time with the clouds (flesh) to bear sin, second time to restore the Passover (in the flesh), third time with fire, self explanatory.

  • Matt

    [Matt, you’re asking us to accept that the universe is a lot simpler than we make it out to be.]

    No I’m not asking anyone to accept the entire universe is a lot simpler- I’m saying that I believe “reasons in the universe are simpler if you put your faith and belief in God” you don’t have to run around asking a million questions and throw in a few far fetched ideas about the way things are in the world-

    When a single human being in the entire world has the ability to learn and explain every single thing in life- then you can argue with me about God- however as the scientist say we humans only use 10% of our brains-

    I don’t believe in UFO’s- never will until there is a day there is real proof that UFO’s & Aliens exist- if they really existed we would have seen proof by now- and instead of making comedy, horror, and sci-fiction movies about it- there would be true study notes, history books, lessons in school teaching us about it just like we learn about the plants, animals, and other species in the world. Especially if we have study books about the universe, planets & stars- I’m sure there would be room in those books to explain about other lifeforms in the universe if they really existed- It would be taken much more seriously if it were true- and who knows there might even be special organizations fighting for the rights of aliens if it were true- alien rights activists-

    Every movie in the world today makes it perfectly clear that the gruesome effects on animals were “fiction” no animals were hurt during the making of the movie- that all acts were “fiction”

    What my beliefs are simply just my opinion and wisdom of how I see the world through my eyes-
    and no I’m not telling you what to believe in- that’s your decision to make.

    As a born again Christian-
    I put my belief in God & Jesus Christ- and what the bible says- after a long amount of studying, I’ve witnessed miracles in my belief therefore in my studies and not just briefly looking up scriptures and making quick judgmental decisions- I’ve come to a conclusion that what most of the bible tells us is true as how to be a righteous human being, there is no fiction or made up stories about our ways as a person and how the universe is in the bible-,therefore the rest of the stories in the bible must be real- why would several people spend so much time & dedication to write things about human nature and the way we act as beings on this earth- instructing us to correct out wrong ways-

    Murder is not a joke- it is a real serious act and it is taken very seriously in every part of the world-

    I think everyone is smart enough to tell the difference between what is real and what is “just another story” what is good and what is bad- what is right and what is wrong- what is negative and what is positive-

    I’ve never read any fiction stories talking about murder, setting up examples and telling you the law and that it is wrong and why it is wrong-

    Have you even read the bible?

    I find myself having to defend myself everytime I post my beliefs exhausting-

    [Paris, London and the Mississippi River exist too. Does that mean The Three Musketeers, Bleak House and Huckleberry Finn aren’t works of fiction?]

    The original writing artists made that clear that these books are fiction- that’s why they are found in the fiction section of the library-

    Show me one library in the world that places the Holy Bible in the fiction section-

    [Stating baldly that “God made it” and that we should leave it at that not only flies in the face of our inquisitive human nature; it’s also insulting to God, for my money.]

    I never said leave it at that- our nature as human beings is to question and “know” the answer to the problems around us- because we hunger for knowlege starting from the day we are born- we have to learn in order to understand-

    You speak about insulting God-

    I believe ignoring God as the creator is the ultimate insult-

    In our arguments I’m quoting scriptures As to what I believe in- not as telling anyone that “this is the reason” but “this could be the reason if you believe in God”

    Again I’m not here to tell people what to believe- I’m only telling everyone “this is what I believe”

    it’s your choice if you want believe in what I believe- so far there are
    Some people that can relate to what I am talking about because they too have read the bible and have come to the same conclusion as I have. Therefore we can relate-

    I take the bible seriously because the bible speaks of very serious acts of human nature that the world knows is real- no one has to prove to you that stealing is wrong- murder is wrong-

    No one has to to tell you that helping each other is the right thing to do-
    No one has to tell you that forgiveness is the right thing to do. To be humble and meek-
    No one has to tell you to love thy neighbor as you love yourself is the right thing to do-

    To help the poor-

    The problem most people have is believing in “everything” that the bible tells us- I just happen to believe everything the bible says-

    There is no trickery involved in the bible- there are no false examples of how to be a righteous individual- therefore that should be proof enough that the intentions of the bible are of truth and good to educate us on why the universe is the way it is- and how we a human beings need to be righteous in our ways in order to keep the world from shifting toward destruction- if we didn’t have laws and seriously the bible has plenty, then the world would be of no control- if the bible writes of truth- then everything in it must be of truth-

    If the bible wasn’t Inspired by God then what are the intentions of using truth and goodness to tell the world about Him if He wasn’t real?

    Why would so many people go through the effort to talk about a being that does not exist in a book of fictional stories made up by man if God wasn’t real? One person did not write the bible- several people did-

    Is not the bible, which is the word of God written for us to study about Him, not the longest existing book on the face of the earth? That not even the greatest evil in the world or the person of the most highest power in our world can get rid of?

    Why so many people protect the word of God and why so many people died in so many generations just to keep His word alive so that we may pass his word on to the future generations to come?

    This is not just some ordinary book-

    If you can believe that a person has a soul, a spirit- something that we cannot see through the naked eye but believe it from the feeling around us after observing and questioning then I’m telling you that I believe in God in the same way-

    As for the second coming remark- what I mean by second coming is the the return after Jesus was resurrected-

    And I think in one of my earlier posts Ive said
    Prophecies are being fulfilled but there are still more to come

    Clearly I’m saying I believe we are living in the end times- I’ve never said we will witness the return of Christ- as I’ve already mentioned that no man not even the angels in heaven will know the time or the hour when Christ Returns- that He will come like a theif in the night-

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.” John 1:1-5

    “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14

    “…the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed….” John 3:19-20

  • Matt

    No matter how much darkness is in the world- no matter how small the light is- light always overcomes darkness- have you ever seen the darkness cover the light of a burning match or candle?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    I’m saying that I believe “reasons in the universe are simpler if you put your faith and belief in God” you don’t have to run around asking a million questions and throw in a few far fetched ideas about the way things are in the world-

    Matt, that’s such an unfair and wildly inaccurate caricature of science and the human thirst for knowledge, I hardly know what to do with you.

    Personally I think that if God exists, what better way to know him than by exploring the awesomeness of creation? So what if it gets complicated? Guy never claimed to be easy to understand.

    When a single human being in the entire world has the ability to learn and explain every single thing in life- then you can argue with me about God

    How very generous of you. But I’m not arguing with you about God, just your reaction to him.

    as the scientist say we humans only use 10% of our brains-

    Scientists say no such thing. We use 100% of them.

    I’ve never read any fiction stories talking about murder, setting up examples and telling you the law and that it is wrong and why it is wrong-

    Clearly you’re not a crime fiction fan…

    Have you even read the bible?

    Please don’t insult my intelligence. In case you haven’t noticed, I’ve been discussing its contents with you at some length.

    Show me one library in the world that places the Holy Bible in the fiction section

    Matt, that wasn’t my point. I was responding to your claim that the Bible must be true because there are real places in it, which is a nothing argument.

    Why would so many people go through the effort to talk about a being that does not exist in a book of fictional stories made up by man if God wasn’t real?

    You’re using the argument from incredulity again. Tolkien spent his entire adult life creating a highly detailed imaginary world, complete with its own peoples, creatures, languages, geography, history, culture, folklore… We can’t infer from this that Middle-Earth really exists any more than we can prove God’s realness from the existence of the Bible.

    Clearly I’m saying I believe we are living in the end times- I’ve never said we will witness the return of Christ

    Then when did the End Times begin? Or have they been going on ever since the Crucifixion? In which case, what’s so special about now?

    Why so many people protect the word of God and why so many people died in so many generations just to keep His word alive so that we may pass his word on to the future generations to come?

    The Bible isn’t the only holy book that this is true of.

    This is not just some ordinary book-

    At least there’s something we can agree on. :-)

    No matter how much darkness is in the world- no matter how small the light is- light always overcomes darkness- have you ever seen the darkness cover the light of a burning match or candle?

    How about darkness covering the light of billions of stars? That’s what you’re looking at when you gaze up into the sky at night. Thanks to the vast dust cloud that lies between the Solar System and the galactic center, we can only see a fraction of our Milky Way from where we are.

    Now that is a little bit of awesomeness of creation right there!

  • Mike

    Matt- As far as the second coming goes, Rev 2:17 refers to a “white stone with a new name written on it”… I’d go further into detail but I’ve got to get to sleep. I am also Christian, and according to my doctrine, this is in regards to the second coming of Christ. The first time God came in the flesh, he came as Jesus, and didn’t go back to heaven until after he resurrected, altogether being the first appearance of the Christ. While I have pretty certain in my beliefs, I’m more than welcoming to further discussion.

    -Mike

  • Ruvy

    I’ve been looking at the comment thread and still come to the conclusion that the birds and fish and other animals dying en masse read this comment thread so far, and died for shame – a mute protest against the stupidity to which mankind has sunk in all of its alleged knowledge.

    Seriously though: I’m no Christian, (most of you have been plastering the Christian Book all over the place like you were putting up drywall) but even I know that the word “apocalypse” means “raising of the curtain”.

    Generally, a heavy curtain raises slowly. I think this is the reason the authors of the Christian book used the term – to imply to its readers that the “curtain” of the End of Days would raise slowly.

    Indeed, that curtain has raised slowly. There was a huge increase in “supernal knowledge” and temporal knowledge that began in the 1700’s with the Industrial Revolution. Electricity became an energy source rather than a fearful event in nature. The use of steam as energy became commonplace, and people began to go faster than a wagon, a ship or their feet would carry them. First, the idea of transporting electric signals over wires became common (telegraphy), then the idea of wireless telegraphy (radio) became common, then transporting video signals through the air (televison) became common, and finally, WWII forced the development of machines that could crack “Enigma Codes” and the like quickly. We call the results “the computer”.

    I’m going through all this so slowly to demonstrate that the increase of knowledge that Daniel foretold in the Tana”kh has been happening – slowly at first and then faster and faster.

    Jewish sages not only foretold when the increase of supernal knowledge and temporal knowledge would begin to occur, they foretold the approximate time of the re-establishment of a Jewish entity here in Israel. That’s pretty good for a bunch of old guys with beards relying on a “book of fiction.”

    By the same token, the Hebrew Torah has long expressed the view that quantum physics is finally come around to – that events in the universe occur without sufficient cause. In other words, the universe is not a “cause and effect” machine, as scientists have so long supposed. Events occur without sufficient cause, and many scientists come to the conclusion that some kind of “cosmic mind” is behind them. Since most scientists are either agnostics or atheists, you can bet they will not call that “cosmic mind” G-d. I refer you to the work of Gerald Schroeder for my references to the other scientists (other than Dr. Schroeder, of course).

    In other words, while I would simply say that G-d is the force that provides the love necessary to fuel the universe, doing so every day, every hour and every second, scientists will stick with “cosmic mind”, so as not to have to give up their agnosticism, if nothing else. There comes a point where saying “I don’t know” becomes a a farcical exercise. But it’s nice that the scientists are finally beginning to come around.

    So, about these animals dying off suddenly – and mysteriously? They are yet another sign of the raising of the curtain. What sign? I don’t know. I’d be a fool to pretend I do.

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Matt: Which imaginary world are you living in?

    “light always overcomes darkness” Oh no it doesn’t; in fact that is the exact opposite of what happens.

    “Have you ever seen the darkness cover the light of a burning match or candle?” Yes, every single time they went out!

    Ruvy: I see you are also fond of bad science.

    “Generally, a heavy curtain raises slowly.”

    Most curtains don’t in fact rise at all, they go sideways. Setting that aside however, any curtain, regardless of its weight, will rise at a speed that is proportional to the force acting upon it.

    Whilst I’m at it, Jewish “sages” have predicted many things and not all of them have come true. How does that make them sage?

    To the best of my knowledge, nor is it true that quantum physics has come around to the view that “events in the universe occur without sufficient cause”. Do you have a source for this incredible claim?

    I have just done some research and haven’t found any scientific writing on the concept of the “cosmic mind”. Do you have any credible sources?

    There never comes a point when saying “I don’t know” is a “farcical exercise”. Indeed, it is the beginning point of all insight, knowledge and wisdom. You should try it some time…

    As to the animal die offs – I read a credible article only last week which said that it happens over 200 times a year in the USA alone, so it isn’t unusual at all. What is unusual is the way that it got picked up by the media.

    Hopefully we won’t be seeing too many more of these little panics as certain faithists get over-stimulated by their apocalyptic reading and general end of the world hysteria.

  • Matt

    [Clearly you’re not a crime fiction fan…]

    Crime fiction is still fiction- TV shows like law & order, CSI tell you “these stories are not based on real events”

    And how do you know I’m not a crime “fiction” fan?

    [Then when did the End Times begin? Or have they been going on ever since the Crucifixion? In which case, what’s so special about now?]

    It’s not about when the end times began- it’s about what the prophecies said about what will happen in the end times-

    [As to the animal die offs – I read a credible article only last week which said that it happens over 200 times a year in the USA alone, so it isn’t unusual at all. What is unusual is the way that it got picked up by the media.]

    It’s true it does happen on a normal basis- what’s different about it this time is that Both Fish and birds dying at a higher amount rate and in such a short time- and it’s happening all over the world- and animals don’t group together and say “let’s die at this exact moment together”

    It’s one thing if it only happened in Arkansas- and then a few months later somewhere else- and in smaller quantities- and if the animals died within hours or days apart- but they all died seconds apart- and for 100,000 fish to die and only 1 species- you can’t blame toxins, pollutants, or viruses-

    And some cases are very strange than the norm.

    To say that

    New International Version (©1984)
    “I will sweep away both men and animals; I will sweep away the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. The wicked will have only heaps of rubble when I cut off man from the face of the earth,” declares the LORD.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Matt, you can’t have it both ways. You challenged me to name a work of fiction which presents examples of crime and punishment – which I did, in spades. Then you respond that the Bible isn’t fiction.

    It’s a circular argument, viz:

    You: The Bible isn’t fiction. Show me a fiction book that talks about murder, setting up examples and telling you the law and that it is wrong and why it is wrong.
    Me: Crime fiction.
    You: But the Bible isn’t fiction.

    See what I mean?

  • John Lake

    Dostoevsky’s greatest work. A candidate for all time best in the world.

  • John Lake

    That was unclear. Crime and Punishment.
    The Idiot, not so much.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Indeed!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    But then again, The Brothers Karamazov is of equal merit.

  • zingzing

    the fall by camus. fiction? i suppose, although that’s not really the point. “crime” is hard to say… but there is certainly some form of punishment.

  • STM

    OK Matt, what mass bird deaths have we had in Australia? Haven’t heard about ‘em and I live here.

    As for the terrible floods, they are down to cyclical weather patterns brought about by the La Nina phenomen, which brings flooding rains on this side of the southern hemisphere Pacific rm, while leaving the coasts of Peru and Chile on the other side dry as a bone.

    And when they have the El Nono phenomenon, which has been replaced by La Nina, everything’s reversed … which is why we we’ve been in drought in this country for more than a decade until mid last year.

    However, although our records only go back 200 years, this flooding – terrible as it is – is part of a pattern.

    Last year at exactly this time, Queensland was being flooded for a first time, although it was overshadowed by the killer bushfires in the south of the continent. All these weather patterns are regarded as normal on this continent.

    Scientists also believe that they go back many, many thousands of years … and way before the time of Christ.

    It’s not new. As for the birds in the US, I think the most recent of the fallen were cold. Too cold to live. The reason: Two cold snaps in the northern hemisphere winter.

    Nothing unusual about that, either.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    Although Clavos, you may had something like this thread in mind when you made your comment about it’s being impossible for people of faith to admit they were wrong.

    Dr. Dreadful’s bull’s eye could be really, really big, you know, and then one might have to wait for another three, five or twenty years for such an admission to occur…

    I don’t think Matt was/is wrong for looking forward to Jesus coming back. I will refrain from commenting on the rest of the conversation.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    That’s a pity, Irene, although I don’t think Matt is wrong to do that either. In fact, if he is a good Christian that’s exactly what Jesus told him he ought to do.

    I do think he’s in error to claim this or that event heralds the imminent return of Christ, however, because Jesus cautioned against that as well.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    Dr. Dreadful, what’s a pity, that I have decided to refrain from commenting on this thread, or that you might have to endure three more years of top of mind news stories being dead bird alerts?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    The first bit, Irene. Guess I’ll just have to catch up with you somethread else!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena Irene Athena

    LOL! Somethread else, then. I have to get to work now though.

  • Mark

    fuckn’ Dostoevsky

    I blame him for some of my darkest days…it was after finishing The Possessed that I fell into despair and ended up selling my skills (and a significant hunk of my soul) to the DoD

  • Cherish

    I haven’t read the comments so this may have already been brought to your attention. If you want to report this accurately, it’s Beebe, ARKANSAS, Not Arizona.

  • http://chattermundo.com ChatterMundo

    Secret military testing of a new communications system is likely the cause of these fish and bird deaths. Check out my blog for complete details.

  • Carol

    You actually had seagulls before the flooding Stm. Not one of the largest die’offs. Getting more concerned as this moves up the food chain. baby seals in Scotland. 200 cows in Wisconsin. More birds in Alabama. This hasn’t stopped, but for some reason, it isn’t covered with the same zeal that the little blackbirds where by the media.

    Matt~No need to defend. You know that some hearts will stay hardened.. this too was fortold. God Bless

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    You actually had seagulls before the flooding Stm.

    Right, because seagulls don’t ever need to land. They can stay in the air indefinitely. So a little bit of flooding shouldn’t bother them one little jot. [/sarcasm]

    baby seals in Scotland.

    Illegal culling by fishermen.

    200 cows in Wisconsin.

    A virus, against which the farmer had neglected to vaccinate them.

    More birds in Alabama.

    Hit by a big rig.

    This hasn’t stopped, but for some reason, it isn’t covered with the same zeal that the little blackbirds where by the media.

    That’s because this sort of thing happens all the time and the media are starting to get that fact through their thick skulls.

    You know that some hearts will stay hardened.. this too was fortold.

    Oh, I see. So if I don’t buy that this is a sign of the End Times, then it’s because my heart is hardened, not because there’s a perfectly reasonable, non-supernatural and more likely explanation. Way to conduct a rational argument, Carol.

  • John Lake

    runn’d over by descending spacecraft. No huh?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Probably not, John. Occam’s razor, y’know. Birds turn up dead, injuries consistent with collision with large solid object. No eyewitnesses.

    More likely explanation is:

    1. Hit by a big rig;
    2. Hit by a spaceship?

  • telson

    Hos 4:3 Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls (ofe – birds) of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.

    Hosea 4:3 is the word languish, which is  hebrew amal. Amal is in this verse such verb tense, which means to be or grow feeble and to languish. The Bible has the prophecy that because of sin of men everyone who dwelled in the earth shall languish (weaken) (diseases, sudden deaths). The Bible says that animals in the field, birds and fishes weakens and fishes shall disappear from the seas. I believe that this means deaths and mass deaths of animals.

    Hosea 4:3 says also that the man poison the fields, which causes weaken and deaths to animals, which eat the harvest of the fields. This partly explains mass deaths and disappearing of the honey bees.

    It is very clear that the activities of the men have been polluted, poisoned and destroyed the nature, the oceans and the seas. This means that animals, birds, fishes and so on have died and shall come to die (mass deaths). The Bible tells this very clearly.

    Hosea 4:3 shows for us also that weakening is the reason to deaths. This means that man made pollutants, toxic chemicals and environmental poisons influence to animals that they weaken and die.

    Hosea shows for us also that all (also people) who dwelled on the earth shall suffer from this. In the last days, many people shall die to several diseases, which due to poisonous substances made by the men. All over the world die daily many people, but it doesn’t necessary awake people and therefore, God says in the Bible that when animals begin to die (mass deaths) so it is time to wake up from the sins, and it is the time to believe in the Lord Jesus.

    More info.

  • Matt

    Foot and mouth disease in Asia.
    Over 10,000 cows and buffalo deaths in Vietnam

    Not only the flooding in Australia but a catagory 5 Cyclone Yasi

    In Japan, the awakening of the Shinmoedake volcano for the first time in (52 years)

    Isaiah 19

    A Prophecy Against Egypt
    1 A prophecy against Egypt:
    See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud
    and is coming to Egypt.
    The idols of Egypt tremble before him,
    and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.

    2 “I will stir up Egyptian against Egyptian?”
    brother will fight against brother,
    neighbor against neighbor,
    city against city,
    kingdom against kingdom.

    Storm in the US across 30 states Chicago to be effected the most where It could be worse than the Great Chicago Storm of 1967

    Matthew 16:3
    And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O you hypocrites, you can discern the face of the sky; but can you not discern the signs of the times?

    Its hard to believe that this year 2011 all these things that are happening are simply “normal events that occur in nature every year”

    I think God is spewing out his wrath upon the world-

    Matthew 24:12

    12“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

    Perilous Times

    15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17“Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18“Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20“But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24“For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25“Behold, I have told you in advance. 26“So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27“For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28“Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

    The Glorious Return

    29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

    Parable of the Fig Tree

    32“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35“Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

    36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

    Be Ready for His Coming

    42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 43“But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44“For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

    45“Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46“Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes. 47“Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48“But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is not coming for a long time,’ 49and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50″the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

  • John Lake

    We should keep faith with the Australians who have suffered so much already. We should remember them in our prayers.

  • Matt

    Yes i agree – John Lake we should pray for everyone else as well-

    I still think that the Total Lunar Eclipse that happened December 21st 2010 was a sign from God-

    Here is a theory about the next upcoming ones