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MANSON: PARENTS RESPONSIBLE, NOT MUSIC THEY HEAR

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Singer Marilyn Manson addressed Mexico’s Sunday Mail about a recent legal trial involving a 16-year-old Scottish youth who killed his 14-year-old girlfriend. It was suggested during the trial that the youth was influenced to do so by a Manson DVD.

Manson said, “I have heard of the case but I do not want to give it much publicity. What I do know is that it is all about the education that parents give their children and the influences they receive, not putting the blame elsewhere…I think people have to take responsibility for their own actions.”

Corus Entertainment has reported that the accused, Luke Mitchell, was sentenced on Friday (February 11th) to a minimum of 20 years in prison for the June 2003 murder of his girlfriend, Jodi Jones. The prosecutors in the case theorized that images of a murdered woman contained on a Manson DVD may have motivated Mitchell.

I think the prosecutors might benefit from listening to listening to Eminem’s song, “Sing For the Moment” which addresses this issue. “…can [music] load an gun and cock it too… next time… tell the judge it was my fault and I’ll get sued…” I’m willing to bet that the motive behind the convicted youths actions had very little to do with some Manson DVD. But that’s just me.

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About jason

  • http://www.markiscranky.org Mark Saleski

    yea, the whole ‘rock lyrics drove my kid to do it’ thing has always been bizarre, to say the least.

    ever see the Ozzy “Behind The Music”? they’ve got that pol talking about how “Suicide Solution” has backwards (!) references to “get the gun….get the gun…shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot”.

    right.

    personally, i don’t care if the damned lyrics say “hey, please go out and blow your brains out.”

  • http://www.mondoirlando.com Aaron, Duke De Mondo

    fittingly, i’m listening to East Nashville Skyline by Todd Snider at the minute. The album contains the marvelous Ballad Of The Kingsmen, which yacks about moral panic from back in the days of Louis Louis to nowadays. This lyric is especially fitting;

    “This guy says “You think the lives of a couple high-school kids could have gotten so bad?”
    Another guy says “Nah, it’s just the lyrics to one of those goddamn marilyn manson songs
    You know the one…”

  • http://www.mondoirlando.com Aaron, Duke De Mondo

    also, i’m reminded of the brilliant bill hicks routine about the “bacwards messages” in Judas Priest songs.

    “I don’t care how stupid these guys are, what rock band wants to kill their own audience?”

  • http://www.templestark.com Temple Stark

    In light of who I thought Manson was in the headline, the post is quite ironic.

    >>yea, the whole ‘rock lyrics drove my kid to do it’ thing has always been bizarre, to say the least.

    Charles Manson anyone??

    Of course it was more that; it was the distortion of a rock song (well a Beatles song). Still …. piggie piggie piggie. Helter Skelter

  • http://www.markiscranky.org Mark Saleski

    true enough, thought manson was so wacked he could have taken inspiration from the label on the side of a tube of toothpaste.

  • http://www.cdbaby.com/X-15 Douglas Mays

    Oh gosh, this issue again….Let us refer to Ozzy O. and ‘Suicide Solution’. Back in the 70s when I was a suicidal late teen (I’m Eighteen!!!) it was music like this that keeps one alive. Just knowing that someone out there ‘gets it’.

    It is music like this that prevents alot of damage. Did Ted Bundy or Gary Ridgeway obsess over some rock records to influence their actions?

    No they did not. Aren’t these people complaining about the social dangers of rock n roll the same people that said how Beavis and Butthead are destroying the youth of America?

    peaceloveguidance

  • http://www.landofthefreehomeofthebrave.org Margaret Romao Toigo

    The ironic thing about people getting up in arms about Ozzy Osbourne’s, “Suicide Solution” is that it is a song about the dangers of alcohol abuse.

    A sampling of the lyrics:

    Wine is fine but whiskey’s quicker
    Suicide is slow with liquor
    Take a bottle drown your sorrows
    Then it floods away tomorrows

    The idea is that alcohol is a “suicide solution” to your problems, I would think that parents would want kids to get that message.

  • http://ayulittleone.blogspot.com/ Ayu

    I agree that lyrics are not supposed to be blamed for committing crime, but not all people have the same opinion. I remember when I was still in Indonesia I couldn’t get Eminem’s CD which wasn’t censored, nor Limp Bizkit, and every other typical musicians. God, and Indonesian doesn’t even speak English.

  • http://4theshallowend.blogspot.com/ mike g

    I’m so sick of hearing this shit.
    Rock music made my daughter evil.
    Violent video games made my son kill.

    What violent games and satanic music was hitler into?

    You have the tendancies in you or not.
    The ultimate responsibility lies with the parents. They need to be monitoring their children’s outlook on life and how they cope.

  • http://paperfrigate.blogspot.com DrPat

    This is a logical outgrowth of an illogical argument. I call it the “Geraldine Fallacy” (though it probably has a more formal name somewhere), after the Flip Wilson character’s tag line, The Devil Made Me Do It!

    Mike, you could add to your list:

    • Pornography leads men to become rapists.
    • Sugar and/or drugs led the criminal to commit the crime.

    Ultimate responsibility lies with YOU for YOUR actions. Not your parents, not what you read or what you play with, or what you eat, and certainly not your music.

  • JR

    What violent games and satanic music was hitler into?

    Well, Wagner. But that’s still no excuse.

  • Gunnfan

    from the album Power in the Blood, 2002
    “Woody Guthrie”, Alabama 3 (A3)
    ————————————-
    Another psychopath in Iowa
    loading up another round
    While the NRA in Columbine
    hunt Marilyn Manson down
    Powder in the Pentagon
    cruel letters in the mail
    Some KKK white supremicist
    cooking up a dose of race hate

    CHORUS
    Don’t need no country
    Don’t fly no flag
    Cut no slack for the union jack
    Stars and stripes have got me jetlagged

    Some baby in Afganistan
    crying for its’ mama now
    while the BNP scare refugees
    senseless up in Oldham town
    Hypocrites in Downing Street
    pouring petrol on the name
    Satpal cries, asks Paddy
    why do we always get the blame

    CHORUS

    sing a song for the asylum seeker
    for the frightened baby on some foreign beach
    you’d better bang a gong and pray
    they reach a safe harbour

    Some mother in Jakarta
    lays down her weary head
    in some free trade zone compound
    here they work you ’til you’re dead
    Hunger stalks the corridor
    famine and disease
    I seen the multinationals
    walking hand in hand
    with globalising marketeers

    CHORUS

    ====================================
    Visit http://www.alabama3.co.uk

  • http://www.getyouroj.com jason

    First of all, Twiggy wasn’t one of the “corner stones” neither was Ginger. The FIRST bass player was on portrait, and he was the bassist from the band Spooky Kids. That band has changed it’s members more often than not, it’s like NIN, Trent Reznor is NIN, and Manson is Manson, it doesn’t matter who else is in the band. Maynard asked Twiggy to be in APC and Twiggy decided it was time for his career to go a different way. The only reason Twiggy and Manson were together so long was because they were and still are very tight friends. As far as Golden Age goes, he must have missed the rest of the cd. The New Shit does have meaning, and it is a deep song, the lyrics just aren’t well written. The rest of the cd is very powerful in showing that the freaks and nu-goths that follow him are becoming way too snobby and should stop thinking in an Ayrean way, as if freaks and nu-goths are better than everyone, or anyone else for that matter.

  • http://www.getyouroj.com jason

    Next thing someone will tell me Lol Tolhurt was a cornerstone of The Cure…

    Or that D’arcy was a cornerstone of The Smashing Pumpkins

  • sane person

    All this stuff you ppl say about MM not causing these horrendous killings, suicides etc doesn’t change the fact the MM is still telling these kids this stuff – if anyone else exposed themselves in front of junior high students and taught them homo sex acts, blasphemy, etc, they’d be arrested – but all you idiots defend MM because you’re against right-wingers & because you think he’s an “artist”. What a joke! As a pro musician I can tell you that this guy has – 0 musical talent/ability. The only “talent” he/it has is a flair for the theatric, and even that may be “talent” that comes not from himself, but from the demon that dwells within his wretched self – the same demon that gives “it” it’s charisma, and the same demon you fools are all enamored with. WAKE UP!!!!

  • david white

    Manson is just a artist. Like Britney and Christina. Only other art is more offensive for some people and other is not. Everybody is responsible for his own actions and some influences like music, books, films,etc. If one can’t take responsobility then that person is not ready for the real life. You can like or dislike manson’s art but art is when you create something new. And even if you only sing it or write the lyrics of it that still doesn’t change that this is just a opinion,and manson is here by only one of the millions artist like others in these mtv style artist.

    Have fun

  • sane person

    Just an opinion – BUT you’re forgetting that most of Manson’s fans are 11-17 years old and that they literally WORSHIP this freak. So are Britney & Christina’s fans, but do Britney and Christina call themselves “Anti-Christ Superstar” and tell kids to “kill God, kill their parents and kill themselves”? Do they tell the kids (who incidentally are not even old enough to “take responsibility for their own actions”) that they are “their savior”? They may be a loose influence sexually to young girls, but do they teach them blasphemy combined with totally perverted sex acts? “Take responsibility for your own actions”? What about MANSON taking responsibility for HIS own actions?? What a hypocrite! And he loves to call others hypocrites. He talks about it being the parents responsibility and that it is “all about….the INFLUENCES they receive” Like MARILYN MANSON?? It would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic. He knows his fans are childen and that they worship him. He knows exactly what he’s doing – being a Satanist, he wants to cause as much evil to children as possible. I rest my case.

  • http://www.getyouroj.com jason

    Naw, it’s not that complicated. Mason just likes people to talk about him so he can sell records.

    Also, I don’t think anyone between 11 and 15 would give two hoots about who or what Mason is, just like many Mason fans don’t give a hoot who came before him.

    Finally, it would be awesome if someone like Brittney had the balls to tell her fans to kill god… it’d be a hell of a lot more interesting. I’d rather Mason influence kids than Brittney or Chritina freaking Agulara (sp?)

    And why did you put some of that shit in quotes? Can you identify your source? Did Mason say those exact words… to kill god and then yourself? If he did, man, he sounds kinda like Bush to me…

  • http://www.getyouroj.com jason

    Oh… and let me know how it is that you know Manson is a Satanist.

    Can you prove that any more than you can prove George Bush is not a Satanist?

  • http://www.getyouroj.com jason

    I don’t understand your use of quotes… Manson never said those exact words… send me your source, assuming you are quouting from one.

  • sane person

    An interesting news item about the shooter in the latest Minnesota school shooting just came to my attention, and I quote: “A sophmore, he enjoyed Goth music such as performed by Marilyn Manson.” and “He was constantly drawing stuff in his notebook that was evil and dark…..but it wasn’t anything that extreme and out of the ordinary for a Goth kid.”

    How many times does this have to happen before people realize? If any of you who defend MM’s “1st amendment rights” have kids, I sincerely hope this never happens to them – if it does, God forbid, I think it safe to say you’ll QUICKLY change your tune.

  • http://www.getyouroj.com jason

    I’m trying to think of a nice way to say this but sir, you’re an ignoramous. You claim Manson has said things he hasn’t and you even put these said things in QUOTES.

    You then point fingers at musicians rather than, oh, I don’t know, stupid American gun control laws (or lack thereof). I don’t remember the last time any “goth kids” shot a whole bunch of people up in Canada.

    Do you not think people can think for themselves? Should we be censoring Manson, pulling his albums off shelves because of poor parenting and gun control laws? Is that your solution?

    Wow… I wonder what you think of 50 Cent and Tu Pac.

    For the record, I think Mr. Brain Warner is actually Catholic. He just also happens to be an entertainer.

  • sane person

    Last post on this – unlike you, Jason, I don’t have time for this freakin’ shit.
    1st of all, you seem to assume that because I’m against MM that I’m a fan of “Dub-ya” I can’t STAND Bush, alright? I think he’s a powermad warmonger and what he’s doing with these wars and trying to institute forced democracies around the world is anything but Christian.

    2nd,it’s a very well known fact that Anton LaVey is one of MM’s heroes and that LaVey made MM an “honorary minister” of the church of Satan. I have at least one pic of the 2 of them together.

    MM may do this shit to sell records, (which is despicable in itself) but believe me, he has other motives – just as a Christian would have motives for trying to influence children to do good, a Satanist desires to spread evil. I can’t prove this, but MM probably made a “deal” to get fame & fortune in exchange for helping to destroy kids. And you don’t seem to realize, but MANY, indeed MOST of his fans are junior high age. You say kids 11-15 have no interest in MM, but the kid who killed his GF that was the subject of this whole thread was 14 at the time of the murder, and the kid who just killed the others & himself in MN was 15! As I said B4, WAKE UP!!

    My use of quotes was only from the article at the top of this thread, the Kill God,…. etc. thing was from the forward of one of the books about/by him, I believe it was the autobio, but it was one of the books out about MM. PLUS the quote was on a well known T-shirt that MM sold. He’s also stated in various interviews and lyrics that he wants to be remembered as the person who brought an end to Christianity & that he wants to help bring about the apocalypse. (sp?)

    If you prefer MM influencing kids over Britney & Christina (which is bad enough), then you must WANT more high school shootings, what the hell, maybe there will start to be some grade school shootings next. As this last story from MN proves, these killings and suicides are the predictable & logical results of MM’s message of hate and hopelessness. Add to the mix some insensitive students making fun of the misfits who listen to MM and other similar satanic trash, and you have a recipe for instant mass murder.

    MM had a website for his “Church of Anti-Christ Superstar, http://www.dewn.com/mm/ (the content is conveniently gone now), where he preaches pure hatred to his followers and tells them basically to destroy everything and that the day will come when they will be in control & they will decide who fits in. He hypocritically talks as if he’s one of the teens, so the young gullibles will relate to him, while we all know that he’s really a 36-37 y.o. extreme pervert, preying on and manipulating the feelings of alienation & insecurity he knows they have. The shit he said on that site sounds a lot like Hitler’s writings…all anti-christs are basically the same, full of hatred, especially for God. But it matters not that the content of that site is gone, because if you look at his lyrics you will find these same ideas in one form or another reiterated again & again.

    That’s all I have to say on the subject, think what you want, deceive yourself if you want….I hope you all open your eyes soon.

  • http://www.getyouroj.com jason

    Hmmm.

    You seem to have the time…..

    Anyway, I’m pleased you at least clarified your opinion and citations.

  • http://www.cdbaby.com/X-15 Douglas Mays

    hhhmmm…if heavy metal lyrics cause suicide, would’nt the streets just be a bunch of dead bodies? carcasses all over? Many heavy metal listeners….

    peaceloveguidance…

  • sane person

    Ok, I guess I have time for just one more…lol…I hadn’t seen Jason’s last post B4 my last one, and I also wanted to thank him for his civility in his reply to my last post – I appreciate that dude :-)

    I’ll just say this: the scottish kid didn’t use a gun to kill his GF, the 3 girls in Italy (also reportedly inspired by MM) who killed the nun also stabbed her. Also, both cases were not in Canada, but they were both outside the US and it’s lack of gun control laws. I don’t have much of an opinion on gun control, I guess there are 2 sides to that question because many guns are obtained illegally anyway and the kid in MN got the guns from his grandpa who was a cop. But my point is that these killings are motivated by hate, and suicides are motivated by self-hatred, both of which are MM’s stock-in-trade.

    No, I’m not for banning CD’s or performances – if something illegal is being done in the course of the performance that might be a different story, but short of that I say no censorship. I do agree that the parents need to deal with this stuff, I believe if they discover their kids are listening to something they consider wrong or dangerous that they need to sit down with the kid and discuss the lyrics in depth. Unfortunately, many parents either don’t care or are ignorant about the true content. All adults need to start taking an interest and talking to kids. And people who know better need to stop supporting and defending those who spread hatred and despair, and start exposing them instead. Not by banning them, but by pointing out their hypocrisy to kids.

    To Doug: I don’t think metal lyrics CAUSE suicide or murder, but when someone like MM knows these kids worship him, knows they’re already depressed & enraged, then knowingly does everything possible to encourage and promote the hate, despair & violence…then I’d say his lyrics are a STRONG contributing factor. As I said in my 1st post, I’m a musician, and I PLAY and listen to metal! I just think Satanism is bad and especially destructive to kids – I know it’s a novel idea these days, but call me unenlightened….

    Finally – as I’m sure Jason could guess….no, I can’t stand 50 Cent or Tupac. I’m a very serious musician and I have to say that I don’t consider any of the ppl we’ve been been talking about real musicians or artists…I guess I’m a musical snob….oh well…

    Anyway, I wrote another long-winded book…maybe I do have the time after all…LOL

    Peace to all

  • ME

    people that say their kid killed themselves over music and games are assholes and have no idea what they are talking about

  • Leelee

    Manson is a LaVeyan Satanist but not a devil worshipper. If LaVeyan Satanists worship anything, it’s themselves.

  • Duane

    First, I think that blaming suicides and murder on music and lyrics is silly. Just so you don’t misunderstand the following:

    Douglas says: Did Ted Bundy or Gary Ridgeway obsess over some rock records to influence their actions?

    This is not a logical rebuttal. If A is claimed to cause B, no one is saying that ONLY A causes B.

    Mike G says: What violent games and satanic music was hitler into?

    Same deal.

    Sane Person started to make some good points, but he seems to believe that Satan actually exists, so that tends to taint the arguments.

    Jason says: Naw, it’s not that complicated. Mason just likes people to talk about him so he can sell records.

    That’s it exactly. He’s a fairly bright guy who found a niche with the kiddies and knows how to market himself. Having said that, however, Manson should at least admit that he has an influence on the kiddies, and that he’s peddling some pretty noxious stuff to them. Forget about murder and suicide. What he really does with abandon is to influence the kids to give in to their exaggerated sense of alienation and estrangement. But that’s really nothing new.

  • http://www.google.com/Hope/To/Have/A/Blog/Real/Soon.php ICanHear

    I’ve seen some intelligent comments here, particularly about influence vs cause.
    Yes, this is more about (individual) INFLUENCE than CAUSE. Causes of messed-up kids are usually complex, yet often due to a variety of influences.
    Ever hear of peer pressure? Some of you seem to think “hey, everyone is responsible for themselves…and/or it’s the Parents’ Fault.” Well, where do peers come in? I’ll laugh if you deny that peers have influence!
    Influence is something that builds up over time. I guarantee that these people who ended up murdering somebody NEVER EVER imagined they’d get to such a place. They started out in some supposedly-benign place.
    Hey, the same goes for GOOD influences! Sure, people rebel when you “over do” it on that end too. But give a kid a lot of love, encouragement, and challenges to better and higher things… and they will most likely turn out awesome! Right? That’s the power of influence. Sure, the people who helped didn’t CAUSE it, but they sure INFLUENCED the result.

    Let’s take this to a new level with a real world example:
    * “Jane” born the result of incest. Same true for all of her “cousins”. Yeah, her dad is also her grandpa. Her mom was only 12.
    * Grew up in painful environment: vivid memories of dad holding gun to mom’s head and telling kid “look, if you don’t ____ i’m gonna kill your mom!”
    * dad went to prison, mom started a new life. tried hard to provide. new dad (didn’t know what he was in for!) came…
    * Jane had hard time accepting his “intrusion” in their lives, hard time accepting his love and especially the many (many!) restrictions. she was out of control, parents tried to over control. both got violent.
    * For three generations, every girl in family pregnant in early teens. Sure, they knew others who had not but inside the family, that was “normal.”
    * Jane *successfully* convinced three of her friends that having a baby was the best way to be significant. Yup, she directly influenced three “teenage pregnancies”.
    * Later, tossed from home with all her belongings in trash bags on the driveway, she came under guardianship of a “normal” family by way of a friend at school and church (yup, went to church all this time!)
    * For eight months, the “normals” loved on her. Yes, there were rules (e.g. school required; smoking only out by mailbox (fire, allergies); no physical attacks (knives))… but as few as possible. Overall, she was encouraged to at least head toward good goals.
    * It became clear that deep down inside, Jane knew a couple of things: she knows she’s loved, and she needs God.
    * Sadly, she also had a self-destructive tendency, set out to prove that she’s unlovable. Tested the “normals” by acting up. Their response: no, you can’t make us stop loving you but you sure can make us sad! We won’t kick you out but you’ll kick yourself out if you go far enough.
    * She took herself out by breaking the most basic rules. Decided life in “the system” would be better (group homes, etc.) Went downhill over years, to smoking, drugs, violence, Las Vegas… kept trying to improve but self destructive. Called the “normals” to apologize, felt dumb about choices. Then at 20, pregnant.
    * Called “normals” asking for another chance. They suggested a live-in crisis pregnancy center. Jane got loved-on by caring people, got to know God too. Gained perspective, a passion to influence others for good, to help open their eyes to their own deceptions.
    * Today her life isn’t perfect. But she’s reconciled with her real mom and new dad, plus the “normals” too, is married, going to college (social work–knows kids won’t fool HER), her daughter is much loved by Jane and husband Joe.

    QUESTIONS (what, you thought there’d be no test? Hah!)
    * The friends who got pregnant — did Jane have anything to do with that?
    * Jane’s path in life — did those around her influence it, for good and for bad?

    So, a few comments. Trying to be nice and not troll, but it’s not easy…
    Duane: “influence the kids to give in to…alienation and estrangement…nothing new” — so that makes it ok/good? No way!
    Leelee: “worship…themselves” — and that’s good? No way.
    jason: “it’d be a hell of a lot more interesting” — so you allow anything entertaining to influence you? You’ve got zero foundations. And it shows.
    david white: “Everybody is responsible for his own actions…art is when you create something new” — right, so artists are responsible for creating art that influences badly! Why should artists get a pass?
    DrPat: “Ultimate responsibility lies with YOU for YOUR actions. Not your parents…certainly not your music.” — And ultimate accountability comes before a judge (before or after we die). Yet YOUR actions include how you influence others! MM creates “art” that influences badly. MM’s responsible for that.
    mike g: “you have the tendancies in you” — right, so we need to control those tendencies. That’s our own job. Yet others have influence and they need to do THEIR job right.

    Ehhh… why do i bother writing this stuff… you’re just gonna trash it and forget it.

  • satinnsin

    This is just freaking crazy, the music made me do it. If people are so damn ignorant to believe what the see and hear from T.V. radio games etc then it is their stupid fault for believing it. we listen to music to enjoy ourselves and most of the time to forget the problems in our lives,not to create new ones. And what ever happened to “take responsibility for our own actions”? If 1 person(out of billions) can take a simple song and “it” makes them do the unthinkable, most likely that person was going to do something to someone eventually anyways. So there are a few unstable idiots out there, dont let them ruin the good music that the rest of us enjoy.Get them in an institution.

  • Mobi Prik

    Leelee: “worship…themselves” — and that’s good? No way.

    I just have to say, it is alot more logical to worship yourself, then a god that is just as destructive and fearful as the devil it creates.

    Also, there’s influence in everyday life. For example, in grade 9 english, you have to study Dracula. My teacher explained how she has seen people after reading the play, change from a perfectly normal everyday person to a complete freak.

    The fact is, it’s buried deep inside of you. Just because something happens to make you realize it is there, doesn’t mean it should be blamed for your actions. You should embrace every part of you, some people just take it too far and shoot up a school or something.

  • vickyg

    just because there are kids that interpret music a certin way doesnt mean that its the artists fault. its just the person look at the lyrics the wrong way. i have listened to my share of rock, emo,punk, screamo music for a kid my age but that doesnt mean that im going to shoot my friends. depending on who wrote it, it can help you in more ways then one. i know it helped me out of a hard place.