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Lesbians or Male Fantasy-Objects?

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Movies like ‘She Hate Me’ pander to the ultimate male fantasies of a single man making eighteen lesbians have heart-pounding orgasms, and in the end getting to play house with two sultry lesbians. While the movie was funny it did raise my hackles. (It had other themes of course, not relevant to this discussion)

Men in general, think that being a lesbian is a hot thing, watching two women grinding their pelvic bones with strap-ons to be erotic or thrusting their clits against each other would lead to heaving climax.

Serials like ‘The L Word’ also encourage these false perceptions. In the last scene of one of the episodes in Season 1, a cat fight leads to clothes-ripping hot sex. Ah! Here was another male fantasy being played out and the icing on the cake would have been a mud fight.

The scene couldn’t be further than the truth. What I hadn’t mentioned is the reason for the fight which involved the discovery of infidelity. No one whether straight or a gay would have sex with a cheating spouse on the very night of discovery. The more typical reaction would be to throw the wayward partner out of the house and spend lots of tear drenched bad hair days before any kind of contact would be made.

This scene was more a pitch to male fantasies than a true lover’s tiff. While trying to make the scene passionate, the script-writers make the sizzling hot lesbian throw her hysterical lover on the bed, rip her dress and while kissing her all over, make her cum hard and fast. Phew! That scene would make even a ninety year old man feel his meat but for me, a heterosexual woman, it did nothing and I can only guess that it wouldn’t do anything for a lesbian either, at least objectively.

Another reason why I didn’t like this show was that all, and I mean all the babes in it are centerfold material with cherry-topped perky breasts that are shown once if not twice in every episode. It makes Bay Watch seem like Sesame Street.

Western media has promoted the myth that lesbians would love to have sex with a man. Get real – that fantasy can only hold true in Bunny Ranch but not in real life. Lesbians, even those that suffer from Pork Envy and dress like men wouldn’t want to feel the good old poke even for a minute. That is the bottom line of being gay. But hey it doesn’t hurt to wish for the unbelievable now does it? Just like wishing one’s snoring wife would be magically transformed into a freshly shaved Playboy bunny. Yup, it doesn’t hurt anyone to fantasize.

As Judith Daniels says in the “Lesbian Couples Guide”,

“…it is rare that lesbians ever see our own lust or passion reflected back to us in films, books, television. We are inundated with images of heterosexual sexuality. The occasional lesbian we do encounter in the media is a twisted, psychotic killer, or a male heterosexual’s pornographic fantasy”

So why do my hackles rise? Well, what holds good for the gander seems to hold good for the goose as most women (moi included) would rather watch lesbian porn with their men than a video with two men slurping each other. It just isn’t fair.

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About Deepti Lamba

  • Hot lesbians are still my fantasy, though;)

  • Interesting commentary, I won’t dispute any of it but just point out two things:

    1) Most lesbians I know prefer gay male porn.

    2) Are there people out there who will ravish their partner the first chance they get, upon the discovery of infidelity? Probably not many, but yes.

    There are people who grow up in households where sex is not discussed, certainly not gay sex, and the dynamics of relationships are explained in a way that does not necessarily apply to the youth. They get their info on what constitutes a relationship from other, often distorted sources. So for some, sex can become the only way they know how to express themselves emotionally.

    I knew somebody who did that on the night he found out his partner was unfaithful, although I think in that case it was more of a dominance thing, with the passion born from desperation.

  • Eric Olsen

    over the course of the last 30 years or so it has gradually dawned on me (I’m slow, I know) that “hot lesbian action” is supposed to be hot, as in sexaully arousing for me. This could not be much farther from the truth (and this is not directed at anyone in particular – it appears to be a VERY common reaction in straight males): what in the name of Lesbos would I find arousing in the inherent masochism of drooling over women who clearly wouldn’t give a rat’s digit about me? The entire concept just boggles my mind with its self-abnegation: why would I want to add MORE frustration to my life? Of course I’m not a fan of ANY kind of porn anyway, but another topic.

  • I think it’s a kind of hope in the males that they will be invited to step in to fulfil what they see as an unmet need. Very capitalist

  • Eric Olsen

    oh, and all of this would apply to watching a show called The L Word, which is in reality a male fantasy paageant: I’d rather — um, I don’t know — sort socks or something.

  • I think all the males commenting in this post have pretty much proved swingingpuss’ point – except for Steve, perhaps

  • Eric Olsen

    I freely admit it: I don’t really know what lesbians do, don’t care what they do, don’t want to know what they do. It’s none of my business, doesn’t apply to me, and vice versa.

  • Thanks for the insight Steve.We humans are a complex lot whatever be our sexuality and you’re right one really can’t be sure what one’s reaction would be until faced with the situation.

    Another thing I wanted to talk about but left out in my post was the popularity gay manga enjoys amongst straight women in Japan. Maybe it’s a cultural thing.

    And Eric I call the L-word the tits soap opera.

    thanks for reading

  • tits soap opera: Maria Callas soaping herself while singing an aria

  • Aaman, I thought you had a thing for Angelina Jolie 😉 Now there’s a woman who could do wonders with Dove.

  • I think it’s the…hey…those 2 would make a nice Andy sandwich thought that gets me…but…that is just me!

  • The never ending saga of male fantasies.

  • I lived in Berkeley and the SF Bay for five years and had a lesbian roommate for part of that time. In that time, I saw very little indication that lesbians could be drawn back to the hetero “team” by the right man, or that lesbian couples were prone to hot sex after revelations of infidelity were made.

    I think, in television and film, it comes down to the writing. For example, with Six Feet Under, I found just about the most touching and real exploration of gay male relationships that I had ever seen (this, of course, from my not-gay perspective).

    Eric O. — I’m a little surprised at your down-the-line disinterest in learning about people other than yourself. Does that mean you’re only interested in stories about straight white guys from Ohio? I don’t mean to be dismissive here, but I’m wondering what the difference is between a “gay story” and any other story if it’s a good story.

    Or do you just mean, in regular daily life, you run kind of a don’t ask-don’t tell policy?

  • Eric Olsen

    I was referring to sexually – stories are great, people are great, I hate when people and their stories are defined by their sexuality. I am interested in people, but not necessarily their sex lives

  • Yeah, I see what you’re saying. I do think that sexuality can be effective as part of good storytelling, but this is often not the case.

  • Justine Jones

    I think you’re jumping the gun a little. How can you claim to know anything about “lesbians” as a category of people?

    I’m a lesbian, and I found this site while searching for lesbian pornagraphy. Some of us like it just as hot, dirty, and degrading as the men would like us to be.

    That doesn’t mean I show off for men, but my point is that I was a little put off by your blanket judgement, especially since, as a hetero woman, you wouldn’t know any more about us than a man would. I think “The L Word” is a fine reflection of the glamorous, sex filled life I *wish* I led.


  • With Eric O, I also don’t find ‘hot lesbian action’ stimulating – but at the same time I also don’t find it offensive the way I find a lot of other porn. There’s something almost sterile about Lesbian sex. With the man taken out it seems more abstract, less real and perhaps less threatening. That may be why a lot of males find it appealing – they’re scared of the real thing.


  • godoggo

    I for one feel truly blessed to live on the same planet as the two sided dildo.

  • Tristan

    Being a male: it’s always perplexed me how many males have that old : two girls – one guy fantasy.

    What’s astounding to me is that when most males have a hard (no pun intended!) enough time trying to slow down and “satisfy” ONE woman—-why is their “fantasy” to have TWO women..???

    All I can deduce is that most must be masochists…..subconsciously striving for that which will totally embarass and humiliate them…..

    and did someone say Angelina Jolie …..??? Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmiiiiiiii !!!
    ( MY fantasy ~~!!!)

  • Tristan wrote: “What’s astounding to me is that when most males have a hard (no pun intended!) enough time trying to slow down and “satisfy” ONE woman—-why is their “fantasy” to have TWO women..???”

    The idea that the man is supposed to be trying to satisfy the women is only one aspect of such fantasies as some men do not have such a democratic attitude with regard to womens’ role in sexual encounters.

    There are still men out there who believe that women do not enjoy sex as much as men. They believe that sex is a form of pleasure that women give to them for either the validation of their feminine desirability or to curry favor in the age-old endeavor of seeking material gain (or both). Such men are not masochists, they’re anachronisms.

    So, perhaps some of the men who have this sort of fantasy dream about how two women will give them double the pleasure, not how challenging it might be to attempt to satisfy two women.

  • Yes, they are anachronistic — and arrogant to boot. Lesbian sex has nothing to do with men, period. That’s the point these particular guys — and it’s not all men, natch — can’t get through their thick skulls. Any woman-loving-woman hoping to arouse men is bisexual (which is just as valid as being gay or het; one is what one is, and that’s wonderful) or is just plain cruel (which sucks).

    I find pornography disgusting in general, but male-oriented lesbian porn is particularly offensive to me for exactly the reasons the author of this post raises.

  • I’m with Eric O. on the decided non-appeal of lesbian sex.

    Eric B. raises an interesting point: “I don’t mean to be dismissive here, but I’m wondering what the difference is between a `gay story’ and any other story if it’s a good story.”

    I’ve never seen The L Word, but I often ask myself Eric’s very question, especially when I’m sitting through a Pedro Almodovar film, as I did this past weekend with Bad Education.

    I spent two hours glancing nervously at my watch and guiltily hoping the ending would arrive any minute. It wasn’t a bad movie, but it was just too damned gay and way too trannie.

    Of course, at the same time, this is what other people like about Almodovar: he’s unflinching where sex is concerned, and makes no concession to any tastes but his own.

    But while it’s easy enough to pretend general sympathy for a storyteller’s aims, if I’m being honest I have to confess my own disgust sometimes gets in the way.

  • The underlying suggestion in most of the porn aimed at a predominantly heterosexual male audience is that the women in the “girl-girl” scenes are bisexual (or “try-sexual” meaning that they will try anything) and just killing time playing around with one another while waiting for the man/men to show up in the next scene. It’s all very formulaic — and boring.

    I responded to Tristan’s question because I found his curiosity about why a man would want to endeavor to satisfy two women when pleasing one is challenging enough to be an interesting example of a realtively new attittude with regard to womens’ roles in sexual encounters.

    Unlike those anachonistic and arrogant men who believe that women exist mainly to service them (both sexually and domestically), Tristan seemed more concerend about how he would be able to effectively pleasure the two women rather than fantasizing about how the two women would add to his own enjoyment.

    Tristan’s curiosity about how he would please the women — as opposed to how the women would please him — is a sign of progress in men’s attitudes about womens’ sexual role because it might not even have occurred to him that some of the men who fantasize about having two women do not care if the women are satisfied or not.

    Such enlightenment has been a long time in coming (pun intended).

  • I (still) can’t get no satisfaction:)

  • “It’s all very formulaic — and boring.” And terrbily insulting too.

    And, yes, it should be noted that Tristan’s view, however creepy some may find it, is preferable to the usually heard self-serving motive.

  • 4Q2

    Most lesbians choose their way of life because they were rejected by heterosexual men (mainly because of their looks). They seek sexual gratification from other women because they cannot find it with members of the opposite sex. Plus woman on moman sex is less threathening. There is no fear of getting pregnant or disease. Most heterosexual males fantasize about good looking women having sex with each other. If they fantasize about the real hard cores lesbians, they would never be able to get an erection.

  • If two women are in bed with a guy, they most likely ARE there for his pleasure, aren’t they? They are there to maximize his sensation; same goes for the girl and two guys thing, I would guess. Any supporting player who crawls out of bed the next morning complaining about how she didn’t get off probably has a brain full of sand.

  • Why can the relationship not be platonic?

  • A platonic threesome? I have those every day.

  • Yeah – you, Plato, and Aristotle:)

  • 4Q2

    There are two types of lesbians. Those that suffer from ‘fugliness’ or those that suffer from the ‘Anne Heche’ syndrome. There is hope for the latter.

  • Mr. 4Q2, you need serious help.

  • Help, or maybe just a kick in the head.

  • 4Q2

    Natalie-which grouping did you fall into?

    Phillip Winn-are you man enough?

  • 4Q2

    I just saw your pix. Now I know which group you fall into. There is no hope for your type…sorry!

  • My theory is that depictions of lesbian sex are exciting to heterosexual men because:
    A) heterosexual men are stimulated by visual and auditory depictions of sex involving a woman
    B) but the presence of a man in the depiction can partly ruin the effect since the viewer wants to imagine himself, not some other man, with the woman/women
    C) in lesbian sex there’s no other man to compete with, be envious or judgmental of, so the stimulus is not compromised.

    As for the desire to be with two women at once, that’s a no-brainer: it’s pure ego. If a woman wants him, great. If a second woman wants him, even better. If the two women both want him enough that they’re willing to share him – well, it just doesn’t get better than that for his ego. Ability to satisfy both women would be a bonus, but that’s not what it’s about.

  • Personally, I love The L Word. It’s not that I have a desire to watch “lesbian sex” because I don’t. I find a few of the characters fascinating with a couple being a llittle over the top. Jennifer Beals and Mia Kirschner are brilliant in their roles. I think The L Word is a fair dramatic depiction of life in the lesbian world today. Things aren’t black and white in the gay/lesbian world. Couples do not consist of the butch/femme stereotypes. The last thing gay folk want is to imitate heterosexual dynamics.

    I love it when there’s a big hullaballoo over two men or two women sharing a passionate kiss on television or the big screen. Big deal — who cares? It happens every day in real life. Couples of the same sex love each other, build lives together, and grow old together. And what’s wrong with the straight guy’s “two girls, one guy” fantasy? Maybe it’s a power trip, maybe it’s vagina envy or maybe it’s just about being human.

  • Mr. 4Q2, my spouse — who is a man — would disagree. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you are entitled to categorize me any way you see fit. You are in my prayers; if you truly believe that a woman without a man is hopeless, you really need ’em.

  • 4Q2

    Natalie Davis-I never said that women are hopeless, although there are several that would fit the description. What I did say was that there are only two reasons why a woman turns to homosexuality. You should save your prayers for them. They need your help much more than I.

  • Well, that, sir, is a matter of opinion. However, it has not been determined that lesbianism is a choice. Some may opt for it for the reasons you state, but I’d wager it is a precious few. I reckon most lesbians are lesbians simply because they are. I didn’t choose to prefer women. I just do. And many lesbians have had men — they just found they don’t and can’t and didn’t and couldn’t want them. No biggie; that’s just the way it goes sometimes. And, IMO, that isn’t a bad thing.

  • For men who like threesome (or more)there is always polygamy which is legally practiced in a number of Islamic states.

    The saddest part about polygamy is that the youngest wife is generally understood to be no more than a ‘sex wife’.

    Here is a form of marriage that ensures that a man can actually butter both sides of his bread and the talk about female satisfaction is considered to be pure hogwash.

    Also a lesbian minus a husband would probably be stoned.

    To have a harem with state protection would be the ultimate male fantasy don’t you think?

  • Tristan

    speaking of “too gay or too tranny for me” — per a commentator way above~~~

    has anyone ever seen the little “sleeper” film: “Before Night Falls” about the Cuban dissident/poet/gay who was imprisoned and tortured under Castro–
    movie was co-produced by Sean penn & Johnny Depp– Depp acts in it also as a gay transvestite and as a fierce Cuban intelligence officer ~~~VERY SURPRISING roles for Depp—as the gay transvestite he goes into the prison where the poet is incarcerated and agrees to smuggle out his writings rolled up and placed in a baggy in his anus~~~yes—Johnny Depp! You have to see it to believe it—they actually SHOW this seen as Depp is dressed in drag and goes into the prison bathroom to do this~~!!!! WOW !!!!

  • 4Q2 wrote: “What I did say was that there are only two reasons why a woman turns to homosexuality.”

    I would be interested in learning upon what scentific research 4Q2 based his or her conclusion. A link or two would be most helpful.

  • Tristan

    oh my!

    I never even pondered that there are really still some guys that think having sex is just about them getting off…..
    I really thought that died out back in the days of The Fonz circa 1960’ish…
    Guess that shows how naive this 51 year old omni-sexual is, eh …!!!

    I call myself an “omni-sexual”—I like ALL sex …..
    Must we all get swamped with these “labels” again~~~
    Every time I see a “label”–warning bells shoot up—-
    whyyyyyyyyyyyyy all these “labels”—
    what IF —we are all just a nice robust BLEND of a whole bunch of these—and not only THAT BUT: we change from moment to moment and under different circumstances and with different partners …~~~~~
    what IF ….????

    homophobia takes on so many varied and disguised roles~~~~
    and always makes me flash on the phrase:
    “methinks thou dost protest too much” … Amerika has not changed too much at all from our very early Purittanical Origins despite playboy, penthouse, hustler, juggs, D-Cup, etc …!!!!!

  • Tristan — Yes, I saw Before Night Falls, but I completely forgot the scene you describe. Very powerful movie. I liked it more than I did the book I read by its subject, Cuban poet Reinaldo Arenas.

  • 4Q2

    I am confused. Are you saying that if given a choice between a good looking man and a good looking woman you would choose to have sex with the woman?

    You see, there are two things that promote female homosexuality. First-all men have a low tolerance for fugly women. Even the most un-attractive male has his standards and they don’t include fugly women. Second-most women in our society view themselves as being unattractive and also have low self esteem. They are constantly worrying about the size of their asses or breasts. They feel in their heart of hearts that they are not worthy of male attention. That’s where lesbianism comes in. Fugly women don’t feel the need to judge another woman’s looks. They just accept the fact that they may never get the chance to be with a man (again) and so they pursue the only other alternative available.

    Once anne heche came to, she decided that she could do better than ellen d.

  • Tristan


    Oops! I forgot—we just HIDE it these days when we divert from mainstream heterosexual behavior~~~such as when the White House under the Bush’s produced the under-age porno hooker Ring which Hunter Thompson and Johhny G. or whatever that pseudo-reporter’s fake name is……..

    I like it! A Gay male Hooker brought into the White House Press Room to ask scripted pro-administration questions and BASH the liberal press…….

    only in a Bush Administration, eh ..

  • 4Q2 – That’s brilliant. Where’d you get your degree from again?

  • Tristan

    Yes Rodney~~~!
    Thank you–it was a real work of art:
    Before Night Falls—
    about the Cuban writer Reynaldo Arenas!!!

    (and I can’t WAIT to see the comments on my last post above ……… should be illuminating, to say the least….)

    heh …..heh….

    I always confuse everyone—-
    from my “weird” spirituality to my “weird” sexual proclivities~~~

    nobody believes there can be a male Witch ….aren’t Witches Women ….
    Nooooooooooooo….not all of them~~~

    Confused is “good” …!!!!

    And I see from a few comments there ARE actually still some slathering neanderthals who think they were put here on this planet to allow women to serve them ……..

    brings to mind those enlightened African countries where they remove women’s clitoris’s so that they will not receive any pleasure when the man “has sex” (rapes them) — this is still practiced in some areas of African tribal cultures ……

    oh my Goddess …………..

    makes one wonder if indeed there really IS a god/dess …..


    An ephemeral, fuzzy term if there ever was one, but let’s give it a try… If someone posts on Usenet solely to get a reaction, rather than to state their opinion or give information or motivate others to take an action, then they’re a troll, and they’re trolling. Trolls often use false identities when posting. Thus, mengele@third.reich.net posting to newsgroup soc.culture.jewish to the effect that Jews are responsible for AIDS is (hopefully) a troll (and is surely an “idiot.”) (NETIQUETTE–> See the e-mail address (mengele@ … )? With most newsreaders, you can put ANY e-mail address you like in the FROM slot. Most folks on the Net feel that if you post, you should have the gonads to post with your real e-mail address; if nothing else, your post will get more respect, all other things being equal. I agree, but I also think there are cases where folks (especially lady-folks) may want to post while protecting their ID’s.)

    Source: Internet Glossary

  • 4Q2

    Eric B asked….4Q2 – That’s brilliant. Where’d you get your degree from again?

    Which one would you like to know more about?

  • Education does not a wise man a fool make

  • You’re obviously quite learned, so I was hoping you’d share the institution(s) in which you acquired your expertise.

  • 4Q2

    Aaman wrote….Education does not a wise man a fool make

    Gee aaman you have a wonderful way with words.


    Thank you for the compliment. I can see you have deferred to my posts. It is probable the only sensible thing you’ve done all day.

    Did you and AAman go to the same kindergarten?

  • I would have been been happy to have had Aaman as a classmate.

  • 4Q2/Smegma/whatever – back to the topic at hand – please explain why your points should be considered valid – cite scientific research rather than your own opinion or experience, please

    Thank you for the compliment as to my writing/schooling

  • 4Q2

    Aaman-practice what you preach…eh?

  • 4Q2 states; “You see, there are two things that promote female homosexuality. First-all men have a low tolerance for fugly women. Even the most un-attractive male has his standards and they don’t include fugly women. Second-most women in our society view themselves as being unattractive and also have low self esteem. They are constantly worrying about the size of their asses or breasts. They feel in their heart of hearts that they are not worthy of male attention. That’s where lesbianism comes in. Fugly women don’t feel the need to judge another woman’s looks. They just accept the fact that they may never get the chance to be with a man (again) and so they pursue the only other alternative available.”

    THAT is the most lame theory I have ever heard. Dude, you are a reasonable argument for lesbianism and male heterosexuality. Judging from the approach you have taken toward women one may question your sexuality. Are you sure you are not one of those self loathing gays?

  • Tristan

    WHY do people tend to argue back and forth—-
    instead of trying to “work together” to further all of us—

    is there something to be “won” by being “right” …. as in “who has the better verbal and/or writing ability” —

    do some people think that if you can badger and cower another through your writing “ability” —that you are a “better person” — ????

    this seems sad to me that we all have so much ability and talent given to us–to “waste it” fighting each other~~~

    when we join forces and work “together” —miracles can occur.

  • Women are sexy. Men are not. (In mainstream Western culture, that is. I make no claim of universal truth on this.)

    Look at the feature photographs and advertising in the most prominent magazines sold to men, and you will find images of attractive women.

    Look at the most prominent magazines sold to women and you will also find images of attractive women.

    Look at television ads for women’s shampoo and you will see attractive women loudly faking orgasms, mimicking a famous scene from an extremely popular comedy movie.

    Look at the history of psychotherapy, and you will find a tremendous concern with the disorder called “frigidity,” in which a woman has difficulty enjoying sexual intercourse. This was worrisome because even back in the Victorian era, many, many men measured their manliness not by their ability to experience orgasm (which is quite easy for a man to do, at least when he is young) but by their ability to induce orgasm in a woman.

    These things show, along with many other examples, how our culture places women at the center and focus of sexuality. Whenever we think about sex, we are thinking about women, and whenever we think about women, we are thinking about sex. This is extremely true for men’s thought processes, and only slightly less so for women’s.

    Knowing this about our culture, it makes perfect sense that most mainstream males, and a number of female viewers, find gay porn extremely unarousing or even offensive. They are not necessarily against gays as such, but they are unable to respond sexually to material without any images of women in it.

    Heterosexual porn is usefully arousing to the mainstream viewer, if it focuses on the images of women. Too much focus on male imagery leads many mainstream viewers to fast-forward or turn the page.

    The ideal pornography for many viewers is porn with no men at all, which the mainstream calls “lesbian” porn. But such material is never an attempt to portray the sex lives of real-life lesbians. It is merely heterosexual sex, with the men edited out to prevent the viewers’ getting distracted from the images of the women.

    The mainstream craves such images of women in hetero sex acts with other women because our culture trains us to see this as the essence of sexuality. It is sexuality refined, purified, concentrated. At least in our culture.

    To summarize all this: Hetero porn is like snorting the drug. Lesbian porn is like injecting the drug directly into your veins.

    That’s how it seems to me, at any rate.

    Disclaimer: My conclusions are almost certainly flawed in many important ways. They are based primarily on what I have read about other people’s opinions on the subject, because of course, I personally have never looked at any pornographic materials of any kind.

    But the ideas might still be useful to somebody, so here they are.


  • I have not one, but two sets of lesbian neighbors. They’re very kind.

  • Eric Olsen

    fascinating insight Victor – makes a lot of sense. My reaction to such things is still that it’s none of my business what women do and my interest is nil. I harbor no illusions that they are doing anything for my benefit or that they have any interest in me one way or the other. I’m not real big on self-delusion

  • i can’t find true reality type stuff—-all i see are hollywood types. if you have some links let meknow. i’m really looking for sites like this —