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John McCain and the C-Word

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While Barack Obama gets attacked by the media for calling small town folks "bitter," the fact that John McCain reportedly called his wife a "trollop" and a "cunt" is apparently much less newsworthy.

Now, obviously, the second word is not very nice. But "trollop?" Really? When's the last time you heard anyone younger than 95 use that word? (I actually kind of like it, though. I may try to work it into my vocabulary.)

First, a bit of background. Cliff Schecter, in his new book The Real McCain, reports that back in 1992, after being teased by his wife about his thinning hair, McCain's "face reddened" as he turned to her and said, "At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt." The exchange was witnessed by two McCain aides and three reporters, who didn't report it at the time, apparently concerned about the toxic language.

The story was widely reported last month and there was some buzz in the blogosphere, but the whole episode faded away pretty quickly. After it was initially reported, McCain spokeswoman Jill Hazelbaker denied the story, calling the book "trash journalism."

Enter Marty Parrish, a Democrat and ordained Baptist minister who used to work for Joe Biden. Parrish decided to ask McCain the question that the press is apparently too timid to ask. He confronted McCain at a town hall meeting recently, asking him straight out, "Is it true that you called your wife a cunt?" (Watch the video here.)

Now whatever you may think about the question, you have to admit that's pretty ballsy. After an audible gasp from the staid Republicans in the room, McCain deftly avoided answering the question by, in his best imitation of a pot calling a kettle black, scolding Mr. Parrish for using such filthy language, and watched as the offending questioner was whisked out of the room by the cops and questioned by the Secret Service. Oh, maybe you haven't heard. Free speech is dead in America. Vastly overrated, anyway, in my opinion.

The absence of a denial in his response was pretty conspicuous. If he had wanted to deny the story, all he would've had to say is, "Of course that's not true, and how dare you ask me such an impertinent question, you trollop!"

Indeed, there are those (on the right, naturally) who have their panties in a bunch because of the nerve of this person to ask the candidate such a disgusting question. These same people don't seem at all concerned that their guy may have actually called his wife a, well, you know.

But for me, this episode raises some serious issues. First, of course, is the question of McCain's infamous quick temper. Parrish, in talking about why he confronted McCain, was quoted as saying, "We have a man whose temper can get the best of him…Our country is in a serious crisis…It appears America is asleep — so I stood up and asked the question." The candidate has tried, in the past, to deflect the question of his temper by saying things like (I'm paraphrasing here), "Why of course I get angry when I see puppies and kittens getting abused! Wouldn't you?"

But seriously, do we really want a man with a hair-trigger temper making life-and-death decisions?

For me, though, the more appalling aspect of this story is what it says about McCain's lack of respect for women. It speaks directly to his character. What kind of man verbally abuses and humiliates his wife in public like that? Kind of makes you wonder how he talks to her behind closed doors.

Of course, this particular episode happened 16 years ago. Maybe he's a completely different man now. Perhaps it was just a little pet name that he liked to call his lovely wife. Maybe we should cut him some slack.

Nah.

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About Doug DeLong

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    It would be great if we had video of the incident in question – even just audio. But alas.

    I honestly don’t believe that McCain is going to prove to be a particularly adept opponent for either Clinton or Obama. True, there’s a bit of wishful thinking in that statement because, of course, we don’t really know at this point.

    However, I just have a feeling that McCain may well be overwhelmed by it all come September and October. Will he prove to have the heart or the patience to weather the coming storm?

    Many believe that the prolonged battle between Obama and Clinton is damaging the Dem’s chances in November. That could be, but I don’t believe it will. All of this in-party, in-fighting will be looked upon as ancient history come fall. Certainly, some people will become disaffected – disillusioned if their candidate – be it Barack or Hillary – fails to get the nomination. But I also think that many people, whomever they are backing now, will become re-energized when the fall campaign gets moving in earnest.

    McCain has his own demons to deal with. He may be a sexist. His storied short fuse may well get him in hot water if someone succeeds in pushing the right buttons. Politics is a dirty game. Attempts will be made to bait the good Senator from Arizona. It he bites, that could be all she wrote for him and the Republicans in the fall.

    There’s still a lot of water to flow under the bridge (or over the dam, whichever image you prefer,) between now and November. Many of the issues that are being picked over now may well be long forgotten by then, replaced by new, hopefully more intriguing or at least more meaningful ones. There will doubtless be a lot of ebb and flow.

    Go Bar… or, er, Hil… – uh, go Democrats!

    Baritone

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Why do I have to even point out the difference between insulting your wife in a moment of anger and denigrating the entire working population of a state…

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Point, Set, Match, Dave.

  • Patty McCredie

    What about his despicable comment about Chelsea? How low can you go to say that about a very young woman? An innocent young woman who didn’t choose her parents? (Even if I don’t like them, it’s not HER fault.) Apropos the respect question? QED.

  • Patty McCredie

    I beg to differ, Clavos. Dave fouled. What’s-his-name (Demo with nasty comment about Hoosiers? I assume you mean him?) is not running for president. I don’t believe he’s going to have access to the black suitcase.

    That insult of wife, by the way, is just about as crude as it can get. And without scruple in front of strangers. Very weird if he lost his self-control only over his balding head. What about when the Vietnamese push his buttons in private?

  • Patty McCredie

    Oops, my bad. I believe you meant the “bitter” comment, Dave. Right. He certainly showed no sympathy for those people, if you read his entire comment. He essentially said, “If those people are unhappy in PA, it’s their own damn fault.”

  • Ruvy

    Looks Like Schechter is truly living up to his name (shekhter means beef slaughterer in Yiddish).

    I didn’t trust McCain in the first place for reasons detailed elsewhere, but if he acted like this towards his wife in public, he is not suited to be dog-catcher, let alone president of a country.

    What about when the Vietnamese push his buttons in private?

    Patty McCredie has raised a question that not enough people think about. McCain was a war hero, but the Vietnamese tortured him when he was a POW. How will he deal with them now? Especially if he has the power to nuke them out of existence….

  • Howard

    Compare the language of the average American of 1964, approximating the date of the civil rights laws that include woman’s liberation, with the language of the general public of 2008. The contributions of the blacks to the new vocabulary of the public certainly shouldn’t offend Obama. I have seldom heard a black person say anything that didn’t include a slur of vulgarity in most every sentence in public. Walking on the sidewalks in the cities of America exposes everyone to an incessant cressendo of swearing and vulgarity. Evidently the inabilility of the general public to express themselves without swearing, cussing, and using abusive and vulgar language is at an all time peak. The media has imbued the public with scenes of sexual intercourse, fellacio, and cunnilingus to instuct the public about how they are to be as animals, all with-in the structure of the uni-sex revolution. Sodom and Gohmorrah is right here in the United States, so the “barren wombs”, as described in the Holy Bible in prophesy, have evolved with a new age caveat. At this time in history, the act of “making love” is inculsive with spermacides, abortions, and ‘kill the growth’ sustaining pills. Pinpoint the sex scene in almost every movie, and many TV shows, that focus’s on a dialog about pregnancy, and you won’t have a pinpoint. As a good man’s place in the world is congested with the new morality of business and politics, the aggressive new woman has lost her sense of cleanliness and prudence. Should the cordoned and brainwashed citizen of this millenium have any cares beyond greed, lust, and narcisism? Shouldn’t a nation that is blith and self riteous about the degree of killing implicated with “making love”, and the amount of death orchestrated world wide by the glory to America mentality, reveal that the undermining flaws of the new America are that of a public that is seathing for more death? It is every where from your hamburgers to the germs on your kitchen counter; in your mouthwash; in your bed. With the woman of the new America, who are now ordained as acceptable sluts, and who will effectively cuss him out as a vulgar, despicable heathen male who is responsible for all her power problems, is it any wonder that she repeatedly delivers a play on words that assimilates his ass with her snatch.
    Why shouldn’t a dirty people have an ignorant mentality that use’s a dirty language? All the girls are doing it.

  • Ruvy

    Wow, Howard, you couldn’t reflect my views more accurately. Watching just a few minutes of Jay Leno’s “comedy” routine at the beginning of the “Tonight Show” sickened me.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Doug: Are you kidding me??? An outbreak of verbal diarrhea from 16 years ago that no-one thought worth reporting until the public humiliation factor was added at that town hall meeting?

    Dave: Are you kidding me??? What does a marital tiff that happened to take place in public have to do with a serious social comment by a presidential candidate?

    Howard: Are you kidding me???

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    Howard, dude, how many times have I told you to remember to take your meds before commenting?

    I bet you’re a riot at parties.

    Dr. D:Are you kidding me??? An outbreak of verbal diarrhea from 16 years ago that no-one thought worth reporting until the public humiliation factor was added at that town hall meeting?

    I guess when you run for president, everthing becomes more newsworty, even if it happened a long time ago, and particularly if it reflects on your character.

  • Zedd

    Dave,

    Please do point out the difference between insulting your wife publicly, using the most offensive word that can be used against a woman because she metioned that your hair was thinning vs explaining why you think a particular voting block adheres to certian institutions.

    PLEASE DO!!!

    Clavos – Your kissing up is out of control. When was your last meaningful contribution?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Zedd, the difference is that one is a bit of private rudeness and the other applies to a broad section of the population. One shows that he gets pissed when his wife annoys him. The other shows that he despises the working man. One is politically irrelevant, the other is not.

    If you can’t see the difference I can’t give you any more help.

    Dave

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Dave,

    I have ducked out of most of the recent hubbub here. I’m sure the Obama “bitter” comment has been shred from one end to the other and back again.

    Nevertheless.

    While Obama’s comment was not the most politically correct given his particular circumstances, the fact is that it was pretty damn accurate. If you don’t believe such people exist, then you are the one with your head in the sand, or wherever.

    I don’t know of the veracity of the McCain comment. If true, though, I think it tells us a great deal about him. I know nothing of the dynamics of the relationship between McCain and his wife, but to say such a thing within earshot of others is very damning. Much moreso than anything Obama has said.

    Obama spoke a truth. There are a great number of gun toting, bible waving red necks all across this wondrous land of ours. Some wear cleverly designed sheets and pointy caps.

    My brother in-law and his wife recently met Barack and Michelle. While it hasn’t been widely publicized, both of the Obamas have received numerous death threats – most likely from crazies who would never act on them, but all it takes is one. The security for Obama’s appearances is very high. It has the effect of debilitating his campaign, at least to some degree. I wonder just how gracious you would be toward such people?

    And Howard? Uh, okay. Don’t move. Just hold on tight. We’ll get you some help.

    And Ruvy? Really! You shouldn’t encourage him. It can only lead to more trouble, and frankly, I don’t think Howie needs more trouble, do you?

    Just an off-thread note: Has anyone here taken notice of the news from the Congo? Penile thefts? What is the world coming to. I understand some hardliners have cracked down on the heinous dismemberors causing the market to go soft. But be wary of any package deals for travel to Kinshasha.

    B-tone

  • http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/05/02/194648.php Natalie

    I have to go; Howard and Doug, with all those sex words, made me wet and horney; got to go ride the pillow for a bit and rub my “Cunt” for a bit. Be back later! Lord, how trollop of me, I should of said clit.

  • Ruvy

    Howard’s comment is a bit over the top, but it accurately reflects the terrible decline in morality, both public and private, in the United States that seems to have only accelerated in the seven years I’ve been absent.

    Why shouldn’t a dirty people have an ignorant mentality that uses a dirty language? All the girls are doing it?

    Go check out Dawn Olsen’s stuff on this site, along with the Deceiver ads that appear here. From what I see of America reflected here and elsewhere, I’m glad I left.

    Dave Nalle, as usual, misses several essential points.

    1. McCain’s remark is old, and probably needs to be taken in context of his relationship with his then-wife. If it’s the same woman, then we really need to examine McCain’s motives closely.

    But it is a public remark, by a public figure, the kind of comment that does not belong in PUBLIC intercourse – double entendre intended.

    2. He ignores Pat McCredie’s insightful comment completely (as has everyone else, it seems). It’s worth repeating here. McCain was a war hero, but the Vietnamese tortured him when he was a POW. How will he deal with them now? Especially if he has the power to nuke them out of existence….

  • Arch Conservative

    After what Michelle Obama said about this nation and the pitiful backpeddling and damage control that ensued, Mccain should have called her a cunt.

    Since he didn’t…………..

    Michelle Obama is an uppity cunt!

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    Dear Archie,

    Thank you for showing us your true colors. You’ve managed to lower the level of political discourse to an all-time low. Your comment is breathtaking in its crudeness and shocking in the way it reveals the depths of your racism and sexism. I would say “shame on you,” but I suspect you have no capacity for shame.

    It’ll be interesting to see if anyone leaps to your defense.

  • Zedd

    Dave,

    Are you alright????

    Saying that I understand why you are bitter means that I despise you?

    Please make THAT connection. Oh we finally get to see the inner workings of Mr. Nalle’s “logic”. You have the floor sir.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Zedd, Obama’s remark did not consist solely of saying they were bitter, that was merely the conclusion. Don’t be disingenuous.

    Dave

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Once again, as with Barack’s “bitter” comment, like it or not, Michelle was dead on with hers as well.

    Ruvy,

    Morality is in the eye of the beholder. As a country, the U.S. is no more nor less moral now than at any other point in history. I suppose, as with all human endeavors, we have had some highs and lows, but overall we’re much the same now as ever as regards our morality. The primary difference now is, of course, the media – radio, TV, the Internet, instant mass communication.

    Pornography and what some consider sexual perversions have existed for literally thousands of years pretty much everywhere in the world. As I write, there is probably more than one Orthodox Israeli Jew clicking on porn sites with one hand and pounding their pud with the other, after which they will spend hours head bobbing at the Wailing Wall in repentence.

    Are American’s crass and materialistic? Perhaps, but not really any more so than people elsewhere. We don’t have the corner on the market. And isn’t it a bit of a conundrum that the country you and your close personal friend, Howard look upon as immoral is also the most religious country in the western world? Hmmm! What’s wrong with this picture?

    B-tone

  • Clavos

    Clavos – Your kissing up is out of control. When was your last meaningful contribution?

    Probably a long time ago, I tend not to post anything meaningful; much like you.

  • Zedd

    Dave,

    His comment was that they are bitter at what is going on so they distract themselves by doing x y or z. What is the big deal????? Where is he despising anyone???

    Please clarify.

  • Zedd

    Thanks Clav

  • Clavos

    De nada, niña.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Mystifies me as well, Zedd. I reckon Dave and others like him are the ones being disingenuous.

    Let’s face it, at the rate this kind of nonsense is snowballing, if Obama wins the nomination, by the time November rolls around he’ll only have to say something like “I had a sandwich for lunch” and there’ll be Republicans screaming that he’s disrespecting the hard-working people in the restaurant industry.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I think all the hits that Obama is taking for meaningless bullshit is out of desparation. The Reps are coming to the realization that McCain’s got nothin’. He has no style, he has no class, he has no policy beyond “bomb Iran.”

    The Reps fear both Obama or Clinton as president because they actually have the capacity to think and make decisions (rather than being “the decider”)on their own. They might actually get some of what they propose done (forbid the thought.) They might get things done through communication, negotiation or, failing that, through force of will.

    B-tone

  • Zedd

    Clav,

    You can be mean to me all day as long as you call me niña :o).

  • Zedd

    Doc, B-tone,

    What concerns me is that the tendency to distort things has had a negative affect on our nation. We deal with none issues and our populous has been dummied down. People think that they are engaged politically when they are actually waddling in nonsense. All of the frustrated Americans who tune into talk radio and all of the spin portholes feel as if they are learning the ropes and affecting a positive change. What happens is that we end up with the elite running amuck creating wars for profit, manipulating consumers while experiencing record gains AND no one cares. They care about who is flip flopping, and who used the word bitter. They care about “family values” and school vouchers. It boggles the mind.

    I am disappointed at Hilary for playing the game like the Reps. I know that she and Bill went through the school of hard knocks but we admired them for their practicality and shooting straight where policy and state of affairs were concerned. I feel disappointed because the Right accused them of being willing to do ANYTHING it takes to win, I and many like myself vehemently disagreed, thinking it was just the right wing nuts at it again. No one likes being wrong. I’m afraid I was, darn it!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I think all the hits that Obama is taking for meaningless bullshit is out of desparation. The Reps are coming to the realization that McCain’s got nothin’.

    The Reps aren’t the ones attacking Obama. McCain has barely spoken in public in the last few weeks. The GOP is just sitting back and watching. It’s all Hillary and her army of surrogates.

    Dave

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “The Reps aren’t the ones attacking Obama.”

    Then why did John McCain criticize North Carolina Republicans in a Friday TV appearance for an attack ad that links Barack Obama to his former pastor and why did Linda Daves, the Republican party chairwoman, say that the commercial would not hurt McCain?

  • Dan

    So then this insulting “exchange” was overheard by 3 reporters who didn’t report it because they were concerned about toxic language?

    Yeah, that’s the ticket.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I always thought you had to put dumb in front of that word to make it really count!

    There seems to be a lot of “stone throwing” going on around here! I know I’ve used that word before, towards women I don’t know and towards women I love dearly! It goes along the lines of calling a spade a spade kinda thing…

    I think I even used it to describe Mac Diva a while back…

  • bliffle

    Andy Marsh’s self revelations do not make him appear more charming. Why does he do it?

  • troll

    …he has his reputation as a sailor to maintain

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Partly because of what troll said…and partly because I really don’t give a rats ass if you think I’m charming…

  • http://www.buyingone.com Christopher Rose

    He said charmingly…

    :-)

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    CR – I’ve always been told I type like I talk!

  • Clavos

    According to one of my sources, the word has a far less pejorative connotation in Merrie Olde England than it does here; in fact, I’m told some use it as an everyday descriptive term, though I’m sure one wouldn’t hear it used in Buckingham Palace or in the House of Lords.

  • http://www.buyingone.com Christopher Rose

    Oh, I thought you were quite smart underneath that gruff exterior you put on, Andy?

  • http://www.buyingone.com Christopher Rose

    It depends on the circles you move in, Clavos.

    There are a whole bunch of social strata that would find it offensive and others, varying from the unredeemably chav-ish to earthy/arty types, that use it a lot.

    I tend to float about from a hearty user to a total abstainer, depending on what I’m doing and with whom, but would tend to think of people who wouldn’t approve of its justified use as hopelessly prissy – or my Mum!

  • http://www.buyingone.com Christopher Rose

    Anyway, isn’t your source a neo-Scottish cunt rather than someone in “Merrie Olde England”?

  • Clavos

    Aye, laddie, that she is.

  • http://www.buyingone.com Christopher Rose

    People in those Celtic countries get pretty miffed if you refer to them as English, even immigrants like her!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Guess I fooled you too CR!

  • http://www.buyingone.com Christopher Rose

    I still reckon there’s a good bloke lurking somewhere under that gruff facade!

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    For those guys who seem to think the word “cunt” is no big deal, I’d suggest asking your wife or girlfriend what she thinks, especially if it’s hurled at her in anger.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Doug – I know what my wife would say, but I also know she’s not holding it against me for the time I said it to her 16 or 17 years ago! That would be an extra long grudge, wouldn’t you say?

    I wonder if anyone has talked to Mrs. McCain to see if she’s still bothered by it…or better yet, if she even remembers it!!!

  • The Obnoxious American

    I’d like to weigh in here. It’s clearly not right what McCain did. No man should talk to his wife that way. McCain obviously has a hot temper as has been previously reported.

    That said, I don’t think it’s any of our business to judge what this man was saying to his wife, regardless of who was there to witness it. We are not privy to their marriage, and it’s none of our business.

    Moreover, I’d like all the supposedly enlightened men in this thread, who are married to the same woman for as long as McCain has been married to his wife, to stand up and be counted if they’ve never used disrespectful language with their spouse at any inopportune time. It’s glass houses time. If we are going to be talking about his relationship with his wife, then let’s be sure to hold him to the same standards we hold ourselves (or hopefully higher).

    If anyone does stand up, I’d like to nominate them for sainthood (after verifying that they are indeed married, and married to an actual real woman).

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I have not used that word….

    …this week!

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I don’t think most of us give much of a crap about the state of McCain’s marriage. Perhaps she gives more than she gets. Who knows? Maybe that’s typical of their interpersonal banter.

    Regardless, the use of such words in public against one’s spouse still reflects questionable judgement upon the good Senator.

    It seems odd though, that so many here are eager to dismiss McCain’s indiscretion while being far less forgiving of Obama based upon the target.

    Which utterance is more accurate? One assumes that Mrs. McCain has a cunt, but by whatever definition one conjures, can it be demonstrated that she is a cunt? And then there’s the trollop thing. Is she, as the Oxford Pocket American Dictionary defines the word, a trollop? 1.a disreputable girl or woman, 2. a prostitute.
    Not knowing much about the woman, I can’t make any definitive statements about her reputation. Prostitute? She may have in fact spread her particular gifts around as it were, but I doubt that she charged for her services as she is worth millions without her honorable spouse.

    On the other hand, it is easily demonstrable that the “bitter” people about whom Obama was refering do in fact exist in our fair land.
    If we’re looking for veracity in a candidate, at least in this particular comparison, Obama wins hands down.

    B-tone

  • The Obnoxious American

    “Regardless, the use of such words in public against one’s spouse still reflects questionable judgement upon the good Senator.”

    I agree

    “It seems odd though, that so many here are eager to dismiss McCain’s indiscretion while being far less forgiving of Obama based upon the target. ”

    Hmm, well for one I hope you are not talking about me.

    But I think that this is a bit of a weird thing to suggest. Are the two equal? I don’t think so.

    My point is that what happens within a marriage is between the two married people. We can’t claim to know what preceeded those comments, or what the two people in a marriage consider normal in terms of how they relate to each other. Perhaps Mrs. McCain is a sub and likes it rough or perhaps in private she “beats him to within an inch of his life” (quoting pink floyd). I say that jokingly, but you get my point. In either case, if McCain wants to argue with his wife and call her names, we can’t judge whether he is right or wrong for doing do. We can and should make judgements as to whether he should have done this publicly.

    Compare that (as you did) to Obama’s comments, in general about the American people. This was a comment about US, an ignorant comment. And this was wrong in an entirely different and more egregious way. I certainly can be more outraged that Obama generalizes about my gun hobby and thinks this is something I cling to because I am lacking his good governance.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I think the thing everyone is missing here is that us “bitter” people LIKE using the C-word! It’s something else we “cling” to! Our gutter language.

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    A couple of points…

    1) I don’t believe that the importance of this story relates to this specific 16-year-old incident as much as it just provides us with a window into McCain’s character and personality.

    2) The whole “bitter” thing was basically a press invention. People wouldn’t have given it a second thought if the media hadn’t told them, “Hey, you should be upset by this.” Obama was not “attacking” gun owners or church-goers. He was trying to explain, in a POLITICAL sense, why some people put more emphasis on some issues than others. The press, though, after being accused of going too easy on Obama, went looking for shit to get people riled up and any stupid, petty crap would do just fine.

    As much as I enjoy the game of politics, there are times when it really makes me want to scream. So if I may….

    AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!

    Thanks, I feel better now.

  • The Obnoxious American

    1) I agree completely. This and a few other situations. That said, I think you want a certain level of passion in your commander in chief. You wouldn’t want a “yes dear” president!

    2) A press invention? It’s funny but your answer to #1 in terms of McCain and how the incident is less important than what it reflects, really also applies to #2 in terms of Obama.

    It was the fact that this is how Obama understands the politics of the issue that is so offensive. And I really don’t think the media cooked this one up, unless they drugged Obama and made him read from a script.

    I do agree in terms of the media, that thye have not seriously challenged ANY candidate, in recent memory on points that matter. Media coverage of policy is of the dumb and dumber sort.

    The media won’t ever point out if a policy suggested by a candidate is wrong or even stupid, and they routinely ignore arguments against stated policies of the candidates. The only time policies are discussed is in terms of who sides with who, but never in terms of whether the claims a candidate makes about said policies are verifiable or even likely.

  • Dan

    At least we know that Obama really made his comment.

    Proof is kind of important when making allegations.

  • Clavos

    The import of the word cunt is purely subjective. This is evident even from the minuscule sampling represented by the cohort commenting on this thread; there’s no real agreement as to the word’s “badness.” Some fervently avow it is; others are indifferent to it.

    What McCain’s use of it in public reveals about his fitness to be president is zero; as has been pointed out repeatedly above, one man’s ceiling is another’s floor.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I do agree with Ob Am about what the press usually focuses on. I generally like Tim Russert, but I was dismayed that in his “Meet the Press” interview of Obama on Sunday, he spent nearly 20 minutes on nothing but the Rev. Wright issue. In contrast there were only a relative handful of questions regarding Obama’s positions.

    I don’t agree with you about the lack of importance regarding McCain’s treatment of his wife. If he feels obliged to embarrass her publicly, how might he deal with his staff and others he would likely come in contact with as president? Does he treat people other than his wife with respect? What would the tone of a McCain White House be if he disses people there in like manner?

    B-tone

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Maybe it says something also that the press had to go back 16 years to find something bad on McCain…if it’s really all that bad…could be a context thing like the Rev. Wright supporters keep trying to make his comments…you know…maybe they were seriously slamming each other in a joking kind of way…McCain had a lot more hair 16 years ago and the context seems to be that they were joking and in somewhat tight quarters…I mean, if there are only 3 people that supposedly heard this “nuclear bomb” of a statement…it must be a “nuclear bomb” of a statement…isn’t it???

    just a thought…

  • The Obnoxious American

    “I don’t agree with you about the lack of importance regarding McCain’s treatment of his wife.”

    You don’t agree with me? I never said it wasn’t important. Here is a quote from my first post:

    “I’d like to weigh in here. It’s clearly not right what McCain did. No man should talk to his wife that way. McCain obviously has a hot temper as has been previously reported.”

  • The Obnoxious American

    Andy,

    I do concur, I think that attempts to negatively color McCain as having equal transgrassions to those of Obama are a stretch. People still talk about the Keating 5 because there just isn’t much else that is concretely negative to throw at McCain.

    That said, McCain has had a few missteps. His misspeak in his mid east tour, his 100 years comment, his apparent temper. These may or may not be legitimate concerns, and certainly not nearly as major as some of the things Obama has said or done. But for the Obamabots, I am not sure that matters much, they seize and replay these transgressions as often as the media play clips of Wright. Hence these are still missteps.

    If Dems wanted to actually debate issues, there is fodder, such as his anti tax cut stance, and his campaign finance reform. But I expect that for the mainstream Democrat, these issues are too far over heads to be discussed coherently. So we talk about the C Word.

    PS, if anyone does think the C word is ok, then you obviously are either a virgin or gay. Not taht there is anything wrong with that :>

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I think they’re (the Obamabots, as I’ve heard them called) are really waiting for the general election so they can paint McCain as a racist because his home state of AZ refused to support an MLK holiday back in the day…that’s probably one of the worst things they’ll find on him. It doesn’t matter that the state recalled their car salesman of a governor over it, it’ll all be McCains fault…wait and see…

  • The Obnoxious American

    Andy,

    It already is. I heard this same charge in a different thread here on BC.

    I am all fine with this. All of the attacks that have so far been drudged up against McCain are either completely disingenuous mischaracterizations (100 years in Iraq, economy sound, etc), blatant lies (refusal to support MLK, McSame or being a 3rd Bush term, potentially this C word situation), or worse.

    I am happy to have a candidate in this position. When it comes time to debate in the GE, it’s easy to dispel untruths, not so easy to explain bad or nieve policy.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    McCain DID vote against the MLK holiday. His black audiences have reminded him of that more than once.

    Actually, I don’t believe that the McCain/cunt issue is particularly important. It’s not getting much play in the press, at any rate.

    As to Obama’s supposed gaffs, both he and Clinton have been hard at it now for, what – at least the last 6 or 7 months. Each has made literally hundreds of appearances, given countless speeches and interviews, gone through around 20 debates. If all you’ve got to hang Obama with is his “bitter” comment and the rantings of a retiring bombastic preacher trying to get his 15 minutes (by the way, in that regard: Well done Reverend,) that’s pretty weak stuff.

    Let’s face it. McCain hasn’t really been tested as yet. He had a few encounters with his new found buddy, Mitt, but he hasn’t had to grind away day in and day out over the long haul as have Hillary and Barack.

    When the shit hits the fan come fall, we’ll see just how on top of it Johnny Boy stays. Will he be able to give tit for tat, or might he wilt under the heat of constant scrutiny of every word, belch and fart emanating from his body?

    B-tone

  • Baronius

    If no one else is going to say it, I will. We’ve got three of the lousiest human beings we’ve ever had running for president this year. McCain will curse and explode in anger; Obama will condescend and alienate people with crude generalizations; Clinton will sink the boat rather than turn over command.

    There’s an old joke about a teacher complaining that not only is a particular student a trouble-maker, but he has a perfect attendence record. We’ve got these louts for six more months, and we will all hate both nominees by November.

  • The Obnoxious American

    Btone:

    “If all you’ve got to hang Obama with is his “bitter” comment and the rantings of a retiring bombastic preacher trying to get his 15 minutes (by the way, in that regard: Well done Reverend,) that’s pretty weak stuff.”

    May I suggest that this is all we have because there isn’t much else there at all. No real history, track record, legislation, etc. There is no there, there.

    As far as it being weak, hardly. Any white candidate guilty of the same thing, would be out of the running faster than an article gets edited on BC.

    “Let’s face it. McCain hasn’t really been tested as yet. “

    In a heated presidential primary perhaps not, but to say he hasn’t been tested ignores the full scope of his accomplishments. From that perspective, he’s been tested way more than either Democrat.

    “When the shit hits the fan come fall, we’ll see just how on top of it Johnny Boy stays. Will he be able to give tit for tat, or might he wilt under the heat of constant scrutiny of every word, belch and fart emanating from his body? “

    Lolll, that’s a great question. I am axiously awaiting the show once the dems work this insanity out. I have no predictions either.

  • The Obnoxious American

    On the issue of McCain and MLK, here is a quote from wikipedia:

    “McCain was elected the president of the 1983 Republican freshman class of representatives.[58] Later that year, he opposed creation of Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, but eventually changed this view, calling King “a transcendent figure in American history” who “deserved to be honored.”[69][70]”

    So I was wrong that this was a blatant lie, to say that he opposed MLK is merely a lie of omission. :>

    That said, if we really want to argue about ideas that the candidates no longer hold, that’s going to be a pretty interesting argument. When I was 5 I believed in the tooth fairy. Does that preclude me from having good judgement now? It’s not like I believed in the tooth fairy until March, until I disowned the tooth fairy’s actions, but not the tooth fairy herself, only to totally disown the tooth fairy a month or so later….

  • Clavos

    Is the tooth fairy a c?

  • The Obnoxious American

    every month or so, yes.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Baronius,

    You are wrong about Obama. Obama is the best candidate of whatever party to come along in a long time.

    B-tone

  • Baronius

    Baritone, I’ll admit that I’m immune to Obama’s charm. He seems like a 17-year-old who performs well on standardized tests, and thinks he’s intelligent. He’s got that fussiness and pride. He’s like the guy who talks about the superiority of soccer at a Superbowl party.

    Given my bias, I’m not the best person to anticipate public opinion over the coming months. But every candidate runs against the Washington establishment, and that shtick wears thin. What looks like contempt for politics as usual now, will start to look like contempt for anyone who dares to hold him to political standards. That puts him one step closer to John “Don’t you know who I am?” Kerry.

  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/39420/joanne_huspek.html Joanne Huspek

    And they’re still married? I would have kicked that guy to the curb!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    To comment #72, that’s why there are so many divorces in this ocuntry, because a word can now be used as a reason for divorce.

    If you’d divorce your husband over one word you probably are a cunt!

  • Ruvy

    We’ve got these louts for six more months, and we will all hate both nominees by November.

    Baronius,

    We, kimosabe?

    YOU’VE got these louts till November. We’ve got far worse until we have the balls to literally throw them out of the top floor windows of the Prime Minister’s Building.

    But, other than that minor point, your comment is 100% on the money.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Most louts don’t understand that such an utterance is symptomatic of a much larger problem of insensitivity and disrespect. Anyone who could utter such an ugly remark to another, even in private is an arrogant asshole, certainly not worthy of sitting in the oval office. Anyone who would publically call his wife a cunt is likely a real dick.

    B-tone

  • Clavos

    Actually, Ruvy, I think Baronius’s pronoun IS the correct one; WE (everyone in the world) DO “have these louts,” if only because of the position the US occupies and influence/power the US wields (for the time being) in the world.

    One of those louts WILL be elected, and then, well and truly, [s]he WILL be YOUR lout, too.

  • Ruvy

    Clavos,

    Just as America is declining with respect to your boat business, America is declining with respect to its power. You give a parenthetical nod to that point in your comment above.

    I tried to make this point in a different article pointing out the rise of an “Americanistic” (like Hellenistic) world culture while America itself declines in power and influence. That is what I believe we are seeing here. It is my opinion that this election will be the last time that the world looks so assiduously to elections in America. Perhaps, it will be the next to the last time; but in my humble opinion, the next election will get less of the world’s attention than this one.

    Sabbath looms and it’s time to go.

    Shabbat Shalom from Liberated Samaria
    Ruvy

  • Baronius

    C’mon, Ruvy, you know what I meant by “we”. But let me make this explicit: the American voter will not have a decent person, Democrat or Republican, to vote for in 2008 for president. And most of those voters will be aware of that fact.

  • bliffle

    What do you mean ‘decent’? Hill seems like a decent person, and so does Obama. Huck looked decent and so did Romney.

    What do you mean by ‘decency’?

  • Clavos

    Not being a liar, for one…

  • Bob vila

    McCain was tested pretty dang good for 5 years in Vietnam… He’s made mistakes like the rest of us in life, and your lack of objectivity shows insecuity in your convictions. Emotion is conveniant. Makes you look compassionate when your just ate up with self righteousness.