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Jared Lee Loughner Was Caught Up in a World of Dreams

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As the new Congress begins, as Americans hope for new passion from legislators who until now seemingly moved only by partisan and personal interests, a terrible shooting has taken place. The world was shocked as the trusting and sweet Congresswoman from Arizona, Gabrielle Giffords, was shot by a young would-be assassin.

While meeting with her constituents in a “Congress on Your Corner” gathering, the lawmaker was shot at point-blank range. The crowd, many of them seniors, some only shoppers, rushed forward to bring the young attacker, now known to be Jared Lee Loughner, to the ground, to hold him for the arrival of police. The toll of those killed in what may have been a senseless, irrational shooting is at six, with many more injured.

The man arrested as the shooter was an avid user of YouTube and Facebook. Jared Lee Loughner reveals himself in a series of YouTube postings as a man seemingly very disturbed, and obsessed with living in a world of dreaming and mind-control. His YouTube posts tell the chilling story of an individual caught up in thoughts of life within an unreal dream state. He writes: “All humans are in need of sleep. Jared Loughner is a human. Hence, Jared Loughner is in need of sleep.” He continues: “Sleepwalking. If I define sleepwalking then sleepwalking is the act or state of walking, eating or performing other motor acts while asleep, of which one is unaware upon awakening. I define sleepwalking. I’m a sleepwalker – who turns off the alarm clock.” “All conscience dreaming at this moment is asleep. Jared Loughner is conscience dreaming at this moment. Thus, Jared Loughner is asleep.”

Much of what Loughner has written for YouTube appears to be the incoherent ramblings of one who indeed is asleep. He writes: “Conscience dreaming: If B.C.E. [ probably, Before Common Era] years are unable to start then A.D.E. [probably, Anno Domini Era] years are unable to begin. If A.D.E. is endless in year then the years in A.D.E. don’t cease. A.D.E. is endless in year. Therefore, the years in A.D.E. don’t cease. If I teach a mentally capable 8 year old for 20 consecutive minutes to replace an alphabet letter with a new letter and pronunciation then the mentally capable 8 year old writes and pronounces the new letter and pronunciation that’s replacing an alphabet letter in 20 consecutive minutes.”

“Every human who’s mentally capable is always able to be treasurer of their new currency. If you create one new currency then you’re able to create a second new currency. If you’re able to create second new currency then you’re able to create third new currency. Thus, you’re able to create a third currency.”

“You’re a treasure for a new currency, listener? You create and distribute your new currency, listener? You don’t allow the government to control your grammar structure, listener?”

“If you create one new language then you’re able to create a second new language. If you’re able to create second new language then you’re able to create third new language. Thus, you’re able to create a third new language.”

Loughner is known to have been rejected by the U.S. Army. He writes of terrorism. “Terrorist. If I define terrorist than a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism especially as a political weapon. If you call me terrorist then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem [an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise]. You call me a terrorist. Thus the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.”

Still over lingering “trance music” Loughner later writes: “In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution I can’t trust the current government because of the ratifications: The government is impolying [sp] mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar. No! I won’t pay debt with a currency that’s not backed up by gold and silver. No! I won’t trust in God. What’s government if words don’t have meaning?” 

On Sunday, Fox News quoted a Department of Homeland Security memo that states Mr. Loughner is possibly linked to a group called “American Renaissance” which promotes views that are anti-government, anti-immigration, and anti-Semitic. Congresswoman Giffords and her aide who was killed, Mr. Zimmerman, are Jewish. Congresswoman Giffords considers herself a part of Reform Judaism which maintains that Jewish traditions should be modernized and made compatible with practices in the surrounding culture.

Jared Loughner left a note in an envelope in a safe in his home with the word “Giffords” inscribed on the front. The content said “I planned ahead.” The designation was “My assassination.” Along with the envelope, investigators found a 2007 form letter from Congresswoman Gifford’s office thanking Loughner for attending an earlier “Congress On Your Corner”; they mention that his name on that form letter was misspelled “Loughney.”

Loughner lists his favorite books as Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf. His profile says he has attended Pima Community College.

Giffords was shot through the forehead at point-blank range. She was taken to the University Medical Center in Tucson. She has been somewhat responsive, and is on a ventilator, in a medically induced coma which allows her brain to rest.

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About John Lake

John Lake had a long and successful career in legitimate and musical theater. He moved up into work behind the camera at top motion pictures. He has done a smattering of radio, and television John joined the Blogcritics field of writers owing to a passion for the liberal press, himself speaking out about the political front, and liberal issues. Now the retired Mr. Lake has entered the field of motion picture, television, and video game (now a daily gamer!) critique. His writing is always innovative and immensely readable!
  • Baronius

    His favorite books listing is the following:

    Animal Farm
    Brave New World
    The Wizard of Oz
    Aesop’s Fables
    The Odyssey
    Alice’s Adventures In Wonderland
    Fahrenheit 451
    Peter Pan
    To Kill a Mockingbird
    We The Living
    Phantom Tollbooth
    One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest
    Pulp
    Through the Looking Glass
    The Communist Manifesto
    Siddhartha
    The Old Man and the Sea
    Gulliver’s Travels
    Mein Kampf
    The Republic
    Meno

    I don’t know if any of that matters, but most of the lists I’ve seen are simply the four that John named. The list strikes me as faux-intelligent, probably most of it from high school, with an emphasis on altered reality.

  • Mark

    Sounds like Loughner watched the movie Inception one too many times. The ugly simple truth may just be Loughner believed that by shooting Giffords he was waking her up, as in the movie. Then againhile a pure political act, a mass media tragic event was exactly the same kind of result, the awaking up of America. This may be where delusional thoughts meshed into some kind of abstract reality for Loughner, a thought process that begans with a delusional

  • John Lake

    His reality was indeed altered. He was not in our world, at least not all the time. He was obsessed, as the article says, with “conscience dreaming.”

  • John Lake

    The closest he comes to an interest in our day to day politics is a reference to the gold standard. He may in fact have been attempting in some distorted way to wake up those at the gathering. In much the same way as he would be trying to help some child by changing the alphabet.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    “. . . altered reality”?

  • Mark

    a thought process that began with a delusional belief and cognitically connected to a belief of brillance on his part to be heard and understood.

  • John Lake

    He can’t distinguish between being awake, or asleep. This is not completely uncommon.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Is this verdict made on the basis of the simple fact that he struck a liberal? Would it have been different if a conservative had been the victim?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Speak for yourself, John Lake.

  • John Lake

    I don’t understand comment #9. There is none other than myself for whom I speak. Some in the media may be exaggerating the liberal/conservative, Tea Party issue. A man who says this of that is unconstitutional, and makes random remarks about the gold standard is not, as many of us are, following the day by days turns of government and politics.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    “This is not completely uncommon” is not the kind of phrase one would use when speaking only for themselves.

    Ans as to you “following the day by days turns of government and politics,” as you say, it may be more an indication of your
    limitation, John Lake, rather than something to brag about.

    And BTW, Jared’s remarks about sleepwalking are more insightful than meets the eyes. Most of us “sleepwalk” in a manner of speaking. just going through the motions. An entirely new concept to you?

  • John Lake

    You seem to know quite a lot about me. Have we met?

  • Mark

    …not sure I’m getting your meaning, Mark.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Just going by your postings, John. Don’t get offended.

  • John Lake

    Roger: You seem to see yourself in those who post at BlogCritics. You identify, then accuse them of your personal limitations. Shame on you.

  • Mark

    Better stated…
    Sounds like Loughner watched the movie Inception one too many times. The ugly simple truth may be Loughner believed by shooting Giffords he was waking her up,as in the movie. If a person is asleep and they are dreaming they are awake and living a conscious reality then by shooting them they don’t die but wake up from the dream state. Then by extension if Giffords needed waking up, why not America through an act of violence. This maybe where Loughner’s thought process stumble apon and discovered a means to validate his desire to heard and understood. The meshing of a delusion with a cognitive thought that if I act out, I validate my reality is not a delusion.
    This maybe too circular for most people to accept however the human desire to be understood and accepted is a powerful emotion and those that don’t struggle with this issue of rejection by peers have zero idea the pain one has to live with, an internal pain that overwhelms ones touch with reality.
    I am not justifing his actions, I am trying to understand what may have brought about this tragic outcome.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Was he delusional simply because he struck a liberal?

    I would have thought that the liberal-conservative divide signifies nothing except the falling apart of the State. Is delusion reserved thus for certain kinds of political acts and not others?

  • John Lake

    Have you even read the article, Roger? The young man probably had little interest in the liberal/conservative divide.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    I wouldn’t dare see myself in other posters, John, especially not in you.

    You’re clearly hallucinating.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    You’re completely off base, John Lake, as usual. My remark was directed at Mark and his comment.

    Go back to the drawing board.

  • John Lake

    I’m hoight. I’m really hoight!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Haven’t seen the movie, Mark, so can’t comment on it, I’m afraid.

    As to the rest of your comment, I’m neither a psychic nor his psychiatrist. So why not just say, for the time being, that he was being disaffected with the political process and decides to strike back? Is it so much beyond the pale that we must look for supplementary reasons?

  • Mark

    John Jake… In case you are actively reading my posts.
    The movie Inception is the sort of pop culture someone like Loughner may have identified with. I am writing from the premiss you have watched the movie, if not you should since you took the time to write your views about this event. In a nut shell pardon the pun, my observation is with what you wrote about Loughner’s rambling youtube posts struck me as being similar to the plot line of this movie that I am taking the time to blog to you my impressions with the hope, your interest in this subject leads

  • John Lake

    Inception. That’s the Vampire thing, right? Since I didn’t see the first movies of the series, I was a little lost at the most recent one. the interplay with him and the girl (he wanted to wait till after marriage, while his shirtless friend who she also liked was more like the rest of us.) (now I am speaking for myself). I thought all that was interesting.

  • Jerome Ludlum

    Was this guy an anarchist? I’ve heard that a lot over the past couple of days. Some questioned the sanity of Czolgosz, the anarchist who assassinated President McKinley. But after being deemed not legally insane because he understand what he was doing, Czolgosz was convicted of murder and executed in the electric chair. Maybe that’ll happen to this guy too. Another sane anarchist convicted of murder and executed by the state.

  • John Lake

    He didn’t seem to be an anarchist. These day’s they talk about organized anarchism. Structured chaos. I think he worked alone.

  • zingzing

    “I think he worked alone.”

    then what of the other man they’re searching for? or has that been figured out?

  • Mark

    Roger. To answer your query of would it have made a difference in my views if it had been a conservative politician targeted instead of a liberal. The answer is no.
    I am way beyond lables or the rush to judgement through lables.

    As a side note, lables of conservatism and liberialism are in my opinion misnoumisms.
    True political wisdomth is we are either:
    conservative liberatarians – the belief that the indivual is supreme bound to the societial norms that we are all polical social creatures that acknowledge the acceptance to be governed needs to be checked since the historical trend is that all government seeks power over the indivual

    Or
    Social democrates – those that believe government function is to protect the minority over the excessives of the majority

  • Jerome Ludlum

    I didn’t ask if he worked alone. I asked if he’s an anarchist. Czolgosz was not part of an anarchist group, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t an anarchist. I think this guy is as sane as Czolgosz and, if he’s an anarchist, deserves the same fate.

  • John Lake

    Zing Zang:
    He was seen in a surveillance photo at some point with someone. There may or may not be a connection.

  • John Lake

    An anarchist is mainly concerned with creating disorder. Like an unruly child who disrupts the class just for fun. I’m not familiar with the Czolosz case. I don’t think that Loughner was specifically an anarchist.

  • zingzing

    it’s zingzing. i don’t know how so many people get it wrong. but whatever.

    i don’t know if your definition of anarchism really is all that good. i figure it’s meant to be dismissive, but that’s certainly not all that’s up with anarchism.

  • Jerome Ludlum

    You guys are commenting here without even bothering to keep up with the news. The “person of interest” turned out to be a cabdriver who drove the assailant to the site but otherwise had no connection to him. He’s been completely cleared.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    i don’t know how so many people get it wrong. but whatever.

    I hear you, zing. My last name causes similar issues for those with low brain cell counts. Despite it having only one syllable, there seems to be no limit to the number of ways people can contrive to spell and/or pronounce it wrongly.

  • John Lake

    zingzing:
    Maybe I am being a little dismissive. There was an anarchist movement in Chicago many decades ago. I should look into that.

  • Mark

    Agian roger dame small droid keypad.
    Continued from where I left off.
    Over the excesses of the majority. A social democrate believes that the role of government is to make the relationship between governed and governing solely between the State and indivual whereas a conservative liberaterian takes the view that such a relationship has conquences that exceed this relationship an spill over into aspects of a civil society.
    In this regards I am a conservative liberatrain
    in effect both are arguing over the same coin, just coming from completely views on whether it is heads or tails that landed up.
    That in my oinion is the dirty little secret to american politics that political division is the instrument by which both parties use to keep us from discovering for ourselves our true social political awariness, our voice is beholden to lables, as it should be.

    Since as it should be undermines my insights, I add this for food for thought there are other tried forms of governance in the world, and none of them respected the indivual as does our Consitition.
    It is hard to bring deep reflection to life, but I try.

  • John Lake

    I already know that the anarchists are more liberal than many liberals and are associated in some minds with communism. They question that “all men are created equal”
    Loughner did mention Mark, et al.
    I’m going to need some additional review…

  • John Lake

    Excuse me. I didn’t mean Mark, I meant Marx.

  • zingzing

    jerome: “You guys are commenting here without even bothering to keep up with the news.”

    yeah, that’s yesterday’s news. the cab driver was released. but there’s another man who was inside the mall that they were searching for. may still be. i don’t know. i’m asking.

  • zingzing

    dreadful: “I hear you, zing. My last name causes similar issues for those with low brain cell counts.”

    my last name is the source of much confusion as well. it’s not a common name, and i can see why it causes confusion, but people sit there and look at it and try to pronounce it with letters that just aren’t there. it’s crazy. and i get it with my first name as well. maybe i’m a bit mush-mouthed, i dunno, but i get all sorts of names before they finally get to mine.

    what’s you name, they ask.

    my name, i answer.

    not my name, they ask?

    my name, i answer.

    not my name, they ask?

    my name, i answer.

    not my name, they ask?

    yeah, that’s it, i resign.

  • Jerome Ludlum

    The fact that the author, Mr. Lake, is obviously ignorant of anarchism, yet feels qualified to write an article about this cold-blooded assassin who may well be an anarchist, is disgraceful. Is this par for the course around here?

    Until there’s some shred of evidence that the shooter was in any way influenced by Palin, Limbaugh, et al., we should stop heaping blame on the right wing and take a hard look at present-day American anarchism, which is no doubt in seventh heaven over the Tucson massacre. What better anarchist act could there be than showing up at a public political gathering, shooting a congresswoman in the head, and murdering a federal judge? Czolgosz would be proud.

  • zingzing

    john: “They question that “all men are created equal”…”

    i haven’t gotten that idea. don’t know that that’s got anything to do with it. as i understand it, that’s antithetical to their idea.

    “I’m going to need some additional review…”

    do that. anarchism isn’t some simply explained thing. if you’re trying to reduce it down to a sentence, i think you’ll have problems. i’m not particularly fond of it, because i think it’s a bit of a pipedream, but it is a nice thought. it’s not about causing mayhem, it’s about getting to the place where we don’t need government, and i’m not sure we’re there yet. but an anarchist is pretty sure of that fact, and the mayhem and chaos is certainly the next step, but it’s not the endpoint. if anarchism could and would work, i think everyone would be for it. and then we’d be in utopia.

  • Mark

    John Lake written to your 4:05 post it has nothing to do with vampires
    Inception is a recent movie where the central plot line is that while asleep our minds true power is switched on so to speak, and that technology exists for others to enter into your dream state and interact with you. The plot line then injects the notion this dream state can in fact subject you to the notion that the division between conscoius relatity and unconscious relatity can be blurred. In essence how can one tell the difference. While in my opinion, the author of this movie is exploring the age old story line of redemtion.
    Anyway, the movie does go to great length, to make the plot line seem exceeding real, just sit back subspend disbelief and accept the plot, you will clearly see that several sceens in the movie make use of the notion that if a person is killed in this dream world they wake up from the dream.
    Just rent it, it is a mind candy type of movie. It does effectively distort reality, and conviencely I might add. There are many interwoven themes all following the sameplot line, it is very hard to piece the together, and in fact trying to do so is distracting from understanding what the film maker is trying say.
    That said, someone delusional could easily become obcessed on trying understanding the flow logic connetions of how the movie uses the plot lines of dreams within dreams to convience the dreamer is dreaming or dreaming they are awake. Sound fimilar now with what you wrote Loughner.

  • Baronius

    You know, I have mixed feelings even talking about this kid’s views. I wouldn’t want to give some other messed-up kid the belief that he’s one mass shooting away from being newsworthy. Laughner’s mental problem may be interesting, but he and his views aren’t.

    Zing – I assumed your last name was Zing.

    John – Even I know you’re confusing Inception with Twilight. Inception in the one about this archaeologist who finds the Ark of the Covenant and fights the Nazis.

  • zingzing

    jerome: “What better anarchist act could there be than showing up at a public political gathering, shooting a congresswoman in the head, and murdering a federal judge?”

    there could be a lot of better acts. not all anarchists are violent. some, probably most, avoid violence, if they understand the idea at all and aren’t some stupid teenager with a stupid, simple idea of what anarchism really means. violence is just another method of coercion, which is what anarchism ultimately attempts to negate.

    this guy’s politics are so muddled and insane, it’s hard to point out what he was getting at. there may have been elements of anarchism, but i kinda doubt it. he had a fixation on her. he thought 95% of arizona district 8 was illiterate (at least in english), so he’s probably got something against immigration (which she wasn’t harsh on). he likes the gold standard. why he chose her is beyond reason.

    it probably has little to do with anarchism. and beyond that, anarchism?? come on, man. are you stuck in the 1920s?

  • zingzing

    baronius: “Zing – I assumed your last name was Zing.”

    and yet they stick an “r” or an “a” in it. amazing.

  • Jordan Richardson

    come on, man. are you stuck in the 1920s?

    If he’s talking about Leon Czolgosz with any sort of meaning in the modern context of anarchism, I’d say Jerome is more likely stuck in the late 1800s. Of course, he doesn’t mention that the anarchist movements at the time actually warned against Czologsz and rejected him. Free Society even warned against Czologsz.

    More here.

  • John Lake

    It would seem then that anarchism is a cause for the young, and romantic. Romantic in the sense of the French painters, and the French philosopher Zola. At that time and place the cry was yes we have no control over what we are, we think, or will become. But these French chose art and philosophy to criticize the intolerable situation.
    I say a young mans cause, because they will end the oppression (I don’t believe I have come upon that word yet in my reading)but they don’t feel ready to undertake to establish a new order.
    Was Laughner a new wave anarchist (another new phrase)?, possibly. He may never have thought of himself in that way.
    We in America are now seeing some ideas that are related to socialism, but government control (in theory, enlightened) might be the way out of an impossible situation. not only the economy, but also on matters bordering on religion, such as home schooling, which is usually destructive to the home schooled students. I have said that religion in the world often does more harm than good.
    But I, though quite romantic in a Zola way in my thinking am neither socialistic, nor anarchist. We can still get back to the fundamental concepts that our founders had, and repair the current system.
    The first problem, and it is not a new one, is in the corporate hold on America. A corporation has no conscience. If it did, stockholders would revolt.

  • Jerome Ludlum

    It’s dangerously naive to pretend that anarchism belongs to the past. Thanks to contemporary philosophers such as R. Nowosielski, anarchism is alive and well. And, of course, totally modernized. As Mr. Lake points out in his article, “The man arrested as the shooter was an avid user of YouTube and Facebook.”

    Moreover, his pose shows a media savvy that belies his years. ” Jared Lee Loughner,” writes Mr. Lake, “reveals himself in a series of YouTube postings as a man seemingly very disturbed, and obsessed with living in a world of dreaming and mind-control.”

    Madness is the perfect cover. Let’s say a devoted anarchist wants to strike a blow against government, such as by shooting a member of Congress and murdering a federal judge (two out of three branches of government), and yet disguise his anarchist allegiances so as not to discredit the movement like Czolgosz. He’d do exactly what Loughner did: create plausible deniability by posting YouTube clips where he acts the loon–without overdoing it, of course.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Nobody’s suggested that anarchism belongs to the past, but your citing of Czolgosz only demonstrates where your own blinders lie.

    For you to cite an individual not only disavowed but shunned by the anarchist movement at the time is a more than a little suspect. So is your use of such a distant historical figure to provide some sort of modern link to this incident and anarchism.

  • Jordan Richardson

    It should be noted that the trouble in Loughner’s life extends far beyond any YouTube ramblings, as most news outlets are reporting with frequency now.

    The suggestion that he could be some sort of anarchist operative picking off a congresswoman in Arizona and then firing into a crowd to take six more victims (potentially more) is a little wonky when one considers the years of drug abuse, the army rejection and the myriad of other piece of evidence as to the killer’s level of sanity.

  • Cannonshop

    “Demented Lunatic shoots twelve People-including a Congresswoman…” seems to be the more likely headline had Mrs. Giffords been a Republican. There would never have BEEN any reference to this creep’s “Politics” nor attempts to draw connections between him, and, say, figures such as Olberman or Krugman, for example.

    It’s because he shot a DEMOCRAT that his “Views” are suddenly interesting-really, Baronius is right-they’re not. a 22 year-old schizophrenic’s views generally aren’t interesting…most 22 year olds aren’t interesting. This kid is about as interesting, and as emotionally developed as those teenagers who shot up high-schools in the early nineties. (Though, to be honest, he MAY be interesting to a professional in the Mental-Health field-like most lunatics who go on killing sprees, or plant bombs…)

  • Jordan Richardson

    Well that’s really an incredibly subjective assertion, Cannonshop. I find all of these cases fascinating from a human perspective and the tone of his politics hasn’t been of interest to me. It’s his twisting of the elements into a labyrinthine mass that has me searching for more information.

    I think a the discussion of the shooter’s politics has been to determine a possible motive, especially considering his past with Mrs. Giffords. He seemed more interested in the fact that her “words had no meaning” than what her actual politics were. His notion of grammar and mind control seem to fuel his politics more than anything, so it appears erroneous at this phase to align it with any particular avenue of thought other than his own hodgepodge.

    That said, I do think the discussion of violence and political rhetoric is a useful one. It’s also long overdo. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that these events prompt such discussions.

  • Jordan Richardson

    And we’ve always, as a society, been interested to a certain degree with a shooter of this magnitude. You’re neglecting that he took six lives, so his interests, politics, motives, etc. are certainly going to be of interest.

    We were interested in the Virginia Tech shooter and in other similar killers too. That you think this case is (or should be?) different because of the politics of the victim is interesting. And that you think that people wouldn’t be interested in the history, politics, motives of the killer had the victim been of another political stripe is alarming.

  • Jordan Richardson

    #56 should read “a victim,” not “the victim.”

  • zingzing

    at this point it’s too late to think the right can or will reevaluate their backing of gun rights. there’s a brick wall. it’s stupid, and most everyone can see that, but welcome to america. i hope you don’t get shot. stupid pricks can’t figure it out. “freedom” means guns around here. i guess that’s the way “america” wants it, if they want to be “free” and live in “liberty” and all that shit. great place, ain’t it? don’t cross nobody. we’ll fucking blow your ass to kingdom come. and then we’ll fucking shoot your ass even if you’re dead. more holes to fuck, i guess. sick fucks.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    John (Lake),

    With all due respect (sincerely), I think your idea of having another look at anarchists and what anarchism is about is a good one. Your suppositions are, in general, very far off the mark.

    My facebook page is openly accessible. If you would like to find out what anarchists, generally, are discussing and what they are ‘into’, you can get a first-hand look there by viewing my connections to anarchists world-wide.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy
  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    40 –

    (pictures those words on CNN…newscaster: “clearly he was out of touch with reality…and just look at his name. what sort of name is that?”…

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    41 –

    Jerome,

    You are very wrong. But that probably isn’t one of your main concerns.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    59–

    other newscaster: “yeah what sort of name is ringzang?

  • John Lake

    Cindy, commenters:
    I was not aware of the movement in America toward anarchy.
    We consider the old west. The cowboys and farmers had no authority hovering over them beyond a sheriff who was one of them. They set their own rules. They agreed, within a broad range to principles. It was not all shooting and stealing. That didn’t work. That was wrong. In spite of or because of the hardships, the unbearable hardships of life at that place, in that time, it was in some ways a good life. Your neighbor may be short of firewood, or food, or grain; you ride, alone, or with your friends, to bring him wood, meat, to bring him to the doctors. Everyone had to cooperate.
    If some less principled individuals stole, killed without thought, plundered, raped, you and your friends didn’t have to think twice about bringing true justice. Maybe you became sheriff.
    Then you go to the city. No one knows you. Laws have been established. You must learn them fast, and obey. You have fought for freedom and decency all your life, but now they don’t know you. You meet others like yourself; you need to re-invent the automatic morality of the open plains. You take hold of the policeman who means nothing to you; you look at the pompous mayor. You and your new friends will end this pomposity. They hang you.
    You are a lady from Russia. You can do what you want, be alone with whom you want, discuss what you want. In a new place all this is ended. You rebel. You convince the men around you to rebel.
    “Equality of Humans, egalitarianism”; there is an issue. Some see it one way, some another.
    Now in America the people have no right to anarchism. The current system is well thought out. There is freedom within. There is freedom without. If the voters put a black man, a wise and good black man in authority, does that bother you? Can you take the law into your hands, like someone who has loved his neighbor? Are you then an anarchist, or a criminal?
    These are thoughts which rebound in my mind this morning in America on wakening.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Thanks for honorable mention, Jerome.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Mark, I took you for another Mark; consequently, my comments were geared to that person. My apologies.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    John,

    From a page on facebook called Anarchy is NOT Chaos!

    “Anarchism is the political philosophy of people seeking society in which all individuals have the greatest choice in the way they live their lives.therefore we work towards the creation of a global network of communities formed by voluntary agreements based on co-operation and respect for the freedom of others.we oppose all forms of oppression including sexism,racism,religious intolerance, discrimination on basis of sexuality,class structures,the goverment of one person by another and any other form of authoritarianism or hierarchy that might happen along.therefore we support the empowerment of individuals and communties working towards freedom.we support genuine resistance to authority.we are not the slightest bit intrested in those who merely seek to replace one authoritarion system with another…some of us like olives some of us dont…”

  • John Lake

    Your freedom is fine if it don’t impair mine. That’s where it goes from their. Can you allow your neighbor to pillage his daughter? I can’t.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    John,

    I am having trouble understanding you completely. But I am sure you will correct me if I don’t get your meaning.

    “Equality of Humans, egalitarianism”; there is an issue. Some see it one way, some another.

    How many ways can it be seen? Here is how I see it. Equality and egalitarian mean equal not sort of equal or equal except when it’s not convenient. If they mean something else, then they are meaningless.

    Now in America the people have no right to anarchism.

    Agreed. Rights in America are determined by those who hold power. That is not about equality and it is not egalitarian.

    The current system is well thought out. There is freedom within. There is freedom without.

    That is your own bias. Coincidentally, it matches the bias as ‘taught’ by the dominant culture.

    If the voters put a black man, a wise and good black man in authority, does that bother you?

    First, whether someone is wise or good is an opinion, is it not? And secondly, yes, it bothers me for a number of reasons. One is that voting is merely a pacifying activity for the masses (including me), who actually have very little to zero say in choices that effect them/us.

    Can you take the law into your hands, like someone who has loved his neighbor? Are you then an anarchist, or a criminal?

    I am not sure what you mean by this.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    66

    Your freedom is fine if it don’t impair mine. That’s where it goes from their. Can you allow your neighbor to pillage his daughter? I can’t.

    Neither could/would I, nor would any anarchist I would find it worthwhile to talk to.

    Again, your presumptions are leading you. Best take a look rather than assume.

  • http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/danmiller/ Dan(Miller)

    OK. The anarchists didn’t do it and neither did the leftists. Maybe it was the Republicans and Conservatives who have been targeted by the leftists. They deny any involvement and have been obscenely graphic in their denials; some have even posted screen shots of some innocuous Democrat campaign advertisements and other educational materials featuring bull’s eyes on Republican districts to counter the horrific Republican advertisements featuring vicious surveyor’s marks on Democrat districts; truly stupid and offensive! It has even been suggested (see link above) that DailyKos had an illustration back in 2008 showing a bulls eye in relationship to Congresswoman Giffords. Calling attention to this is even more shameful, if such is possible, than the violent Republican incitements and falls far below the gentle wisdom of urging that guns be brought to knife fights.

    Sadly, some will try to blame the oppressed crazy people. The NARCP (National Association of Really Crazy People) has yet to speak. It’s a pity, because their voices have for too long been silent. Who, I ask, has silenced them? We must demand an answer to this question, now, and all of their melodious yet strangely misunderstood lessons for us all must be heard.

    The Congress must pass a law giving the Really Crazy People the media access of which they have for so long been deprived.

    Dan(Miller) a.k.a Crazy Dan

  • John Lake

    Are all men created equal. Is the homeless man with his damn hand out equal to Dr. Freud? Two equally thoughtful people with good intentions can unilaterally disagree on that one. That was my point. Even the thinkers and philosophers among us can seek opposing ends.
    Our system didn’t just spring up overnight. It is the result of centuries or more of thought. It can’t be tossed aside like yesterdays Tribune.

  • John Lake

    A girl at facebook posted this maybe five minutes ago on a thread I started. I didn’t get her permission to reprint it. Maybe it will do some good for someone.

    Anne Reed: As our nations (and states) capacity to assist those with grave emotional and mental disorders wanes, we have little choice but to look inward for solutions to this tragedy. The shocking response of Jareds’ parents (boarding themselves into their home and refusing to talk, even to the FBI) might provide some insight into the factors that led to Jared’s rampage. I can understand their need for privacy, their horror at their son’s unspeakable acts of violence, or even their fear of public retaliation, but am mystified that they didn’t show up for his court appearance. Perhaps a lack of acceptance at home, rejection by the military and community college and peers fueled the insanity that brought on this tragedy. Where is such a young man to go? What is he to do? Who might have impacted his life to avert this senseless tragedy?

    As responsible citizens we must redouble our efforts to offer alternatives to American families in crisis during these difficult times. I’m not talking about food stamps or unemployment benefits, though hunger and financial hardship can trigger extreme and inappropriate actions in unstable individuals. I’m talking about love and concern for the unlovable and compassion for our neighbors and associates. We’ve all seen it time and again but we must, as a society, develop systems to identify families at risk and reach out to them and their children to prevent the fostering of hopelessness and extreme abherent (sic) behavior such as that displayed by Jared Loughner.

  • woot

    Dan you are a goddamn hero.

  • woot

    The rest of you could really use some work.

  • Clavos

    I’m not sure that, in their place, I would have shown up in court, either. I can’t blame Loughner’s parents for their seclusion, the alternative would be horrendous.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    You are showing yourself to be amenable to denying freedom to people you judge as ‘lesser’.

    A dictator can be thoughtful or have good intentions. Can he not?

    Thinkers and philosophers who defend the deprivation of equality to people they do not approve of are not discussing equality. They are discussing oppression.

    You emphasize Dr. Freud and the descriptor “homeless man with his damn hand out” in a prejudiced way…and as if that prejudice were actual reality and everyone would agree. I don’t agree.

    1) Are you a Christian, John? If not, I apologize in advance for bringing up these examples: Mary and Joseph (if you believe the tale) appear at the inn–looking for a hand out. Lazarus and Jesus.

    2) Freud was, in my view, responsible for a lot of social damage to women. He peddled an ideology as a ‘science’. His warped biases effected the social culture in destructive ways.

  • Clavos

    affected :-)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Again, John, your biases seem to be seemlessly interwoven, with the values, narrative and fables we are indoctrinated with by the dominant culture.

    It might be worthwhile to question what you have been told. But that is just my opinion.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Clav,

    Damn! I STILL don’t get when I should use affected or effected. I never have been able to maintain my comprehension of that distinction. Though from time to time , I think I understand it.

  • Clavos

    Here’s a distinction, Cindy:

    In the context of your comment, you were in need of an adjective. According to dictionarydotcom, “effected” is first and most commonly a noun (in the form of “effect” it is the first nine definitions). After those nine, it is defined as a verb, “effected” (one definiton).

    “Affected” on the other hand, is listed only as an adjective meaning acted upon, influenced. In another form, “affect” it can also be a noun or a verb.

    All of that is kinda convoluted, so here’s the short form:

    most of the time:
    “effected” = noun or verb.
    “affected” = adjective

    With affection,

    Your friend,

    The Grammar Nazi

  • Mark

    Jerome, despite his odd compulsion to type ‘Czolgosz’ repeatedly, is quite correct. Historically, some anarchists have had a problematic relationship with violence.

    John might meditate on the basics of anarchist theory — cooperation stimulates (species) change — which I imagine he’d agree is seriously needed about now.

    Query for the theory: for any particular species, is there any way to disentangle competition from cooperation?

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Historically, some anarchists have had a problematic relationship with violence.

    I disagree on two counts. One: That is not what Jerome said–that historically SOME anarchists have had engaged in violence. And, Two: the fact that SOME anarchists have, does not make Jerome in any way correct about what he actually did say.

    Jerome is espousing opinions that are the political equivalent of racism.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Um, Clav…er, thanks…that is about what the last person who tried to help me said…

    :-)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    ‘Religious people believe in violence and should be prosecuted because they are religious’ doesn’t work for me–the Christian crusades and the Muslim suicide-bombers notwithstanding.

  • Clavos

    Um, Clav…er, thanks…that is about what the last person who tried to help me said…

    Sighs.

    :-)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Clarification: I don’t disagree that historically (and contemporarily, for that matter) that some anarchists have been violent.

    What I disagree with is about what Jerome said.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    And whether he was “right”.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    the basics of anarchist theory — cooperation stimulates (species) change

    I really liked the way you put that bit, though.

  • Mark

    Thanks for your correction on Jerome’s position…I was trying to get around his absolutism with a bit of humorous acknowledgement and will happily throw him under the bus.

  • Jerome Ludlum

    Those are typical anarchist responses to someone who dares to disagree with you. Either dismiss him, as Cindy (#60) did, or “throw him under the bus,” as Mark (#88) does.

  • Mark

    Hi Jerome, do all anarchists tend to violence?

  • John Lake

    I might make the point that Cindy read me wrong. I feel the hand-out dude and Dr. Freud are equal; not owing to religious conviction, but I simply feel that all humans are sacred and equal. Sacred even if there is no God. Either way.
    I’ve likes Freud since I was a boy. I like the way he thinks. He couldn’t develop a real understanding of women, because the society at that time wouldn’t allow it.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Effect(ed)/Affect(ed):

    Let me give it a go…

    When used as a verb, to effect is active and describes direct action: “The CEO effected a change in the way business was done.”

    To affect, on the other hand, is passive and describes indirect action: “The CEO’s directive affected the way business was done.”

    In the first case, the CEO’s intent was to change business practices. In the second, the change was a consequence of the CEO’s actions: (s)he may or may not have meant for it to happen.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    I was trying to get around his absolutism with a bit of humorous acknowledgement and will happily throw him under the bus.

    LOL…

    I probably should have had a V8…

  • John Lake

    Cindy:
    You realize of course that you split a verb…

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Sorry, John Lake.

    I am swinging and missing…

    However (I am not done with you yet),

    He couldn’t develop a real understanding of women, because the society at that time wouldn’t allow it.

    Society (which determines what is permissible based on what those in power and who have status conclude…read FREUD here), was being led in its charge by the likes of people like Freud…who was heading the pack, there, imo.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    So, therefore, HE would not allow HIMSELF, and also dissuaded others…

    And is personally responsible, no matter how much you like him.

  • John Lake

    He (Freud) is personally responsible…
    and he dissuaded ohers..
    I don’t remember a political agenda.
    As an intellectual and philosopher of sorts he was not a violent man.
    OK. Responsible for what???

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    I split a verb, John? Holy crap! I swore I would never do that again.

    (P.S. to Jerome–It is typical of anarchists to break their promises.)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    John,

    because the society at that time wouldn’t allow it

    He is responsible for promoting, accepting, allowing, advancing, for being the society that would not allow it.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Himmel couldn’t really see Jews in a very good way, HIS society would not allow it!

    (Can you see what I mean, now?)

  • John Lake

    So.. he should have whipped off his glasses, thrown down his quill, grabbed a fire-arm and begun opposing the oppressive society that kept him away from women?

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    ????

    Don’t ask me, I am a pacifist. I don’t care for guns. (They seem to be penis extensions, and in my experience, it is really true that it is who one is not what size one is that turns women on).

    How do I know what he should have done? I only know what he did.

  • John Lake

    Some of the girls I know would strongly disagree. I have to ask this. What did he do?

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    92 DrD…hmmmm, that makes sense…I will try using that guideline.

  • John Lake

    Poor Cindy.
    I’m going to lunch. JL

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    John,

    About the women you know (we often tell men that when they piss us off).

    But let’s come full circle. I will repost:
    Freud was, in my view, responsible for a lot of social damage to women. He peddled an ideology as a ‘science’. His warped biases effected the social culture in destructive ways.

    I once had a classmate who later became a counselor who thought female sexuality was akin to that of the average male’s sexuality. The only reason he could think of that women would not have sex with her partner was to gain power over a powerful man. As he saw it, one could have sex with anyone. I suppose he never heard that women don’t get in the mood just because someone has taken off their clothes.

    The point of this story: 1) He was influenced by Freud. 2) He was presuming a particular male view of sexuality as THE right perspective, much like Freud did, and marginalizing the female perspective as both irrelevant and manipulative.

  • Dan

    “On Sunday, Fox News quoted a Department of Homeland Security memo that states Mr. Loughner is possibly linked to a group called “American Renaissance” which promotes views that are anti-government, anti-immigration, and anti-Semitic”—John Lake

    This has been quite thoroughly debunked. AR magazine is decidedly not anti-Semitic, nor anti-government. They deal almost exclusively with race realism.

    The homocidal madman never contributed or subscribed or even mentioned the magazine in his rantings.

    It is telling that “anonymous Obama Administration officials” seem to fear the organization to the extent they would attempt a fraudulant smear like this one.

  • John Lake

    Freud wasn’t in a position to know that a women needs someone to direct her thoughts. True some men are totally NOT THERE. But I don’t think he did much damage, and I’m sure it wasn’t intentional.
    (we are still talking about Freud? Or maybe Jared Loughner?) Duh.

  • John Lake

    Penile envy was a young Freud’s explanation. It may have some basis in truth. His work in psychoanalysis and the interpretation of dreams (and therefore, the hallucinations of the schizoid) is still viewed as important.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Freud wasn’t in a position to know that a women needs someone to direct her thoughts.

    I think that is a joke, right?

    Freud thought women were inferior. He was a jackass. Even jackasses have some good ideas. (not intended to signal agreement with you regarding either psychoanalysis or dream analysis in particular)

    His work…is still viewed as important.

    Did I mention that I regularly disagree with what most people think of as important? ;-)

    If you would like to put in a last word for your buddy, I will cease and desist mocking him.

  • John Lake

    :>

  • Mark

    As rep for Acme Mesmerizer, LLC I invite you to consider a more energetic cure for the neurotic little lady.

    Dealer inquiries welcome.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Acme Mesmerizer…lol…

  • Clavos

    Penile envy was a young Freud’s explanation. It may have some basis in truth. His work in psychoanalysis and the interpretation of dreams (and therefore, the hallucinations of the schizoid) is still viewed as important.

    Actually, most modern practitioners have pretty much discarded Freudian theory…

  • Clavos

    To affect, on the other hand, is passive and describes indirect action: “The CEO’s directive affected the way business was done.”

    Umm, Doc…

    As used in that example, “affected” is active and transitive, not passive. The subject is the directive (not the CEO –he’s a modifier in this instance) and “affected’s” object is the way…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Yes, Clav, but what we’re trying to do here is help Cindy know which one to use.

    I’m not advising her on poking around under the hood so much as letting her know which lane she should be in…

  • Clavos

    OK, Doc, I get it.

    Carry on.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Thank you, Clav.

    And now on to today’s lesson: it’s versus its. Pipe down at the back there, unless you want to feel my ruler across the backs of your knuckles.

  • John Lake

    it’s is obsolete. Now its its.
    He is taller than I, or he is taller than me?

  • Clavos

    I

  • Clavos

    John, to check, complete the sentence in your mind; e.g. he is taller than I am.

    Not he is taller than me am (or me is).

  • Clavos

    it’s is obsolete.

    Not so. It’s is the contraction of it is; its is the possesive; e.g. The lion is sleeping in its den; it’s not going to disturb us.

    And I’ll correct you when I edit your articles.

  • Clavos

    possessive…

  • John Lake

    Certainly, Clavos, I know that. But the Twenty-first Century has been leaning away from outdated properness in grammar, and toward the acceptance of colloquial usage.
    (What you were saying is the familiar, “He is taller than I am tall.”)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    the Twenty-first Century has been leaning away from outdated properness in grammar

    But not that far – yet.

    Not only grammar, but also spelling. Witness the abundance of typos that can now be found in printed material, official documents and even on road signs – something one scarcely ever saw when you, I and Clavos were young.

    Now there’s a singe of the End Times, if anything is! ;-)

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    A singe?

    lol

  • Clavos

    John writes:

    the Twenty-first Century has been leaning away from outdated properness in grammar, and toward the acceptance of colloquial usage.

    Doc replies:

    But not that far – yet.

    And he’s right, John. In particular, the example we discussed, it’s and its would be very confusing if the apostrophe in it’s were dropped, because the two words have entirely different meanings.

    Incidentally, there is no such word as “properness.”

    The people have been “leaning away from outdated properness in grammar, and toward the acceptance of colloquial usage” since long before the twenty-first century.

    It’s (that word again!) driven by laziness on the part of the public, and in the case of post WWII America, it’s also a result of the abysmal (and continuously declining) state of government (i.e. “public”) schools in this country since the end of that war. The result is a coarsening of the language and a tragic loss of much of the nuance, richness and variety of American English.

    Except at college level, and often not even there, it’s been decades since American students were taught how to use the language to its fullness. Today, wit da spred of txtng and other abominations, its ez 2 fall str8 in2 meaningless gobbledegook, and most youngsters do just that — word.

    Witness the abundance of typos that can now be found in printed material, official documents and even on road signs – something one scarcely ever saw when you, I and Clavos were young.

    Quoted for Truth.

  • John Lake

    I’m delighted you feel that way,Clavos, because without guidelines, it becomes chaotic.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    And they gathered unto him, saying, Lord, show us a singe.

    But Jesus saw what was in their hearts, and lifted the hem of his garment, saying, This is my best robe, yet behold! here is a singe. This is what happeneth when thou gettest too close to the fire, trying to get enough light to proofread thy half-witted prophecies.
    (Matthwe 23:2)

  • zingzing

    is jesus flashing people? and why is his dick burned? what is going on here?

    and where is the book of matthwe?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    zing, the Book of Matthwe can be found in the latest edition of the Holy Bilbe – New Testoment.

  • Baronius

    “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.” (Rev 22: 18-19)

    Doc, I think you’re in danger of having your name misspelled in the Book of Life.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F Cohen

    Dear comrade, etc., Bah-wrong-ius,

    RE your # 132

    Me thinks-eth you is quite Bah-right-ius on this one.

  • Clavos

    Jesus had a dick, zing? What for?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Baronius, as I was saying to zing the other day, I’m quite used to having my name misspelled.

  • zingzing

    clavos: “Jesus had a dick, zing? What for?”

    fucking? (god willing… and why wouldn’t he be, man? why wouldn’t he be? truly, that would have been a “my god, why have you forsaken me?” moment…)

    also, does the bible enter the bathroom? what of jesus’… human moments… like after a little to much water into wine into water… does jesus have a bladder?

    these are the questions that are so rarely asked, and as i know it, have never been answered.

  • Anon

    If you don’t realize what he is talking about look up “Brain Fog.” Millions of people our suffering from it and noone can get answers as to what causes it.

    I have it. It is like I wake up and never really wake up. Im typing this now but I feel like I am high as shit or drunk all the time.

    Next time you get drunk, stop yourself, look around and realize how you are seeing things, how you feel. Sit down and try to do a math problem. It is terror. Anon

  • John Lake

    #137
    How terrible! And you say it’s called “brain fog.”