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It’s All Very Simple: Birthers Believe that Washington Is a Sundown Town

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Now that Donald Trump has jumped into the faux fray about Obama’s birth certificate, it seems like a good time to define the real issue in this increasingly contentious matter.

As in often the case in conspiracy theories, this one was at least partially inspired, if that’s the right word, by a movie — The Manchurian Candidate. This political thriller gets a good deal of drama from the idea that there could be a stealth candidate who would make a dramatic speech after a shooting, and get elected. Still, there’s more to the birther controversy than that.
Although Trump doesn’t apparently realize it, the issue of the birth certificate is only the beginning of the problems with the birther theory. For example, the only way you can make sense of the birth announcements in the Honolulu paper is to say that some unidentified plotters knew when this bi-racial boy was born, he would be elected president.

And then let’s do something that nobody has apparently done. Let’s consider seriously the idea that Obama was born in the country that would become Kenya. Well, if he was born there, then his mother had to be present. So how did she get there? When did she obtain a passport? Then, too, it was no small task to get from Honolulu to central Africa in 1962. Where did she get the money? Since pregnant women aren’t allowed to fly in their last trimester, she must have gone there considerably in advance of her due date. Where did she stay while waiting to give birth?

And then there’s the really tough question: Why? Why did she leave her home in safe, pleasant Honolulu to give birth in dangerous, unstable Africa? Why did she do this thing that makes no emotional or biographical sense? The only answer is that some unseen, insanely rich cabal of plotters intending to overthrow America hatched this plot decades in advance. As a screenwriter, I can just imagine the way movie executives would greet a script that includes all these points.

So.  There are lots of questions that the birthers can’t, don’t, and won’t answer. Yet when you think about it, the inability to answer questions about your beliefs is not exactly unprecedented. There are lots of questions that all of us can’t answer about what we believe. Still, the birthers are clearly agitated about something, and that something is more than simple racism, although that is part of it. I believe that the birthers themselves can’t fully articulate why it seems so wrong to them that Obama is president.

Fortunately, we can find at least the beginnings of an answer in James Loewen’s provocative book Sundown Towns. The odd name comes from the formerly widespread practice of keeping blacks out of certain towns by telling them that they’d better not let the sun go down on them. It’s important to understand that many sundown towns were located as far geographically and culturally from the South as Martinsville Indiana, and Anna, Illinois.
Loewen shows with abundant documentation that many small and middle-sized towns throughout America achieved the status of sundown towns by rigorously excluding blacks, and maintained that status vigorously. They did this in a variety of legal and quasi-legal ways. They passed ordinances about who could live in these towns, and buy property in them, for example. But even in the absence of ordinances, the sheriffs would tell blacks that there was such an ordinance, and threaten to enforce it. Real estate agents colluded with sheriffs and mayors to steer blacks away from sundown towns, too.

Although I don’t know for sure, I strongly suspect that a large number of birthers grew up in sundown towns, or in towns with a very small black population. The thing to remember is that doesn’t make them vicious racists the way Hitler was a vicious racist. What it does mean is that birthers are just not used to seeing blacks in their neighborhoods, and they’re certainly not accustomed to seeing them in their living rooms. But they do see Obama regularly in their living rooms, when he appears on television from time to time, as presidents do. For them, then, he seems out of place; he seems to be violating the natural order of things in their near environment. His presence in the White House and on television seems all the more unacceptable and all the more frustrating to the birthers because they can’t quite say what’s wrong about it

A logical explanation for this violation of the order of things in sundown towns occurred to a few people. Since Obama’s father was Kenyan, so goes the argument, then he must have been born in Kenya. And when people started propounding this theory on television and on the internet, it resonated with a lot of viewers and readers from sundown towns. It explained what they were feeling, and moreover did so in an exciting way. If this were a movie, the bad guys would get their comeuppance in the last ten minutes or so—and that’s what the birthers expect. However, that hasn’t happened, and isn’t likely to happen.

So the birthers will probably be with us for a long time. No evidence, or lack of evidence, about Obama’s birth certificate is going to give the birthers any relief because the controversy about the place of his birth is a red herring. What matters is not where he was born in 1962, but where he lives now. He lives in the White House, which is located in Washington, and for the birthers Washington is a sundown town.

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About jcurtis

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    You clearly haven’t been to “chocolate city” if you think it’s a “Sundown Town.”

    And the core problem with your thesis is that all of these laws were repealed nationwide by the mid-70s, so for your argument to make sense birthers would have to be over the age of about 45 and in my experience most of them are not. The idea seems most popular with the young and ignorant.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with pointing out how ridiculous Birthers are, but I think the racial component in their delusion is very minor if there at all.

    Dave

  • Coach Lar

    I require a birth certificate for my girl’s softball team. I have not received anything but “long forms”. It is so common to make a copy of the “long form” and submit it. Why doth Obama protest too much? He caused this on purpose. So, I hope Trump determines the purpose for this lack of transparency. (remember that word?)

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Dave –

    Do you really think that an entire nation can suddenly – in historical terms – go from being widely racist to hardly racist at all in a mere generation?

    IMO the reason you think the racial component in birther delusion is ‘very minor’…is because you either (1) are naive, or (2) don’t want to admit what you know in your gut to be true.

    Racism isn’t legislated away in a mere generation, Dave. It’s still there, alive and well, and the ONLY reason you don’t see a great deal more of it is because of that terrible, terrible liberal weapon called “political correctness”.

    Have a nice PC day, Dave!

  • Jon

    His mother was a tramp and we will probably never know who is the father unless this clown has a legitimate long form birth certificate, in the meantime he could never be eligible since he is basing the natural born citizen criteria using his foreign born and never USA citizen father. Visit this blog for the real facts I follow the Mario Apuzzo school of thought that Obama NEVER had a US citizen father and he can therefore not be a natural born citizen. Mario attempted to have the Supreme Court rule on this matter but the SC refused this and other cases stating the American public had no standing to show harm. Yeah this illegimate clown along with the DNC has ruined the USA. O’Reilly is wrong the birth announcement was automatic when Obama grandparents attempted to register his birth but NEVER provided the long form birth certificate that doesn’t exist. For real truthful information visit Mario Appuzo’s website.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Hey hey hey, we’ve got a birther here!

    btw, Jon – the father doesn’t have to be a citizen for the child to be a natural-born citizen (though I’ve heard that is the law in Japan). All that is required is that ONE of the parents – either the mother OR the father – be a citizen for the child to also be a citizen.

    And while you’re at it, kindly explain just how it is that Ms. Obama – who was living in Hawaii at the time (otherwise the birth announcements wouldn’t have been in BOTH newspapers on the same day) – decided to up and go to Kenya to have her kid…and THEN somehow smuggled the child back to Hawaii where he grew up?

    And one more thing – a long time ago I read how back in the late ’90’s, Hawaii took ALL the old original birth certificates, certified those certificates and entered all the data into their databases, then destroyed the original birth certificates. Why? To save taxpayer dollars.

    And that is why my youngest son – who was born at Tripler Army Medical Center on O’ahu back in ’95 – cannot get a so-called ‘original’ birth certificate from Hawaii (like I still can from CA), but can only get a certified document that serves as his birth certificate…

    …and the FORMAT and DOCUMENT DESIGN of my son’s birth certificate is as a result IDENTICAL to the one President Obama posted online a long time ago.

    So go educate yourself, willya?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Professor Curtis, you’re only giving the birther loonies more ammo if you’re going to throw them soft balls.

    Considering that Ann Dunham’s husband was Kenyan, you have to admit that does give her one compelling reason to go there.

    Restrictions on flying were also nothing like as draconian in 1962 as they are today. You could pretty much show up at the gate carrying half a dozen knives and handguns, a rocket-propelled grenade launcher and a sign saying “I Intend to Hijack This Aircraft”, and no-one would stop you from boarding. A heavily pregnant woman? No problem at all.

  • troll

    fact of the matter is – it was a virgin birth

  • Trump = Dump

    Bottom line is Trump is too Dump to be an American!

  • Inspector Clouseau

    Game-changer: The next eligibility shoe to drop

    I suspect everyone… and I suspect no one.
    I gather the facts, I review the evidence and then just like that, the case is solved.

  • onepoetatolawyer

    I shouldn’t have to be a screen writer like you to figure this out. Why can’t MY president produce his birth certificate in all it’s incarnations? Is that so much to ask?

    As for not liking the man, his polls are relatively high for a President whose policies are so strongly opposed. There is something a bit alienating or “different” about him though. I had the feeling that Reagan and Kennedy were patriotic, even Clinton and the Bushes, but I don’t get the feeling that Obama is patriotic one iota. It’s as if he stands for certain abstract things, but not this team, our team. And that is WEIRD for a President of the United States, white or black (which he is both).

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Jerome Corsi is your game changer? I think it’s arguable that Corsi is clinically insane. If he’s the best you can come up with, Obama is just fine.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Do you really think that an entire nation can suddenly – in historical terms – go from being widely racist to hardly racist at all in a mere generation?

    I never said the whole country had given up racism, just that it wasn’t a significant motivating factor in birtherism. First off, Obama is not a particularly “black” person of color. He’s largely aculturated and fits the definition of the kind of African American who those with borderline racism would be most comfortable with. Second, there’s no indication that any of the notable birther leaders have a trackable history of racism, and some of them are public figures whose past actions are pretty well known.

    So, as there’s evidence to prove that they are any more racist than the general public and the general public elected Obama, there has to be another explanation to why they would target Obama, and I think those reasons are obvious.

    He’s president. No point in bringing the issue up with anyone who isn’t. He’s well known for being a Marxist and an internationalist. And remember that these people are NWO conspiracy nuts. They see Obama as the catspaw of a globalist anti-american conspiracy, and that has nothing to do with his race – and it’s more than enough reason to be out to get him.

    Dave

  • pablo

    I suppose it is easy in the author’s Black and White world to ascribe this issue to racism from hicks in the backwoods. It is a typical knee jerk reaction to a very legitimate concern regarding Obama’s place of birth.

    For those of us in the know however there is far more to this story than meets the ignorant eye.

    political writer Wayne Madsen whos credentials are the following
    (U.S. Naval Officer, he managed one of the first computer security programs for the U.S. Navy. He subsequently worked for the National Security Agency, the Naval Data Automation Command, Department of State, RCA Corporation, and Computer Sciences Corporation.Madsen is a member of the Society of Professional Journalists (SPJ), Association for Intelligence Officers (AFIO), and the National Press Club)has written extensively on Obama and his family’s illustrious past with the CIA, hyperlink included below.
    This information coupled with the fact that thus far Obama has spent in excess of 1.5 million dollars in legal battles so that he not have to produce his long form birth certificate raises serious questions about his past as well as his integrity. The fact that the Honolulu Advertiser has a birth announcment means nothing. Again anyone in the “know” which the author of this article obviously is not, knows that a simple communication by relatives of Obama to the newspaper would have inserted this announcement. It is further known by those in the “know” that it was indeed possible at that time for him to be born abroad, and still have the short form birth certificate.
    Obama is a creation of the Agency, his mother worked directly for several known CIA frontst that too is a fact. I highly suggest that the author read the hyperlinked article below for his own education, as it is he is indeed steeped in ignorance.
    Wayne Madsen: Obama’s CIA Connections, Part I and II

  • borderraven

    Glenn Contrarian,

    My my, where do I start?
    “the father doesn’t have to be a citizen for the child to be a natural-born citizen (though I’ve heard that is the law in Japan). All that is required is that ONE of the parents – either the mother OR the father – be a citizen for the child to also be a citizen.”

    Then what is the difference between a citizen and a natural born citizen, there must be some point where one is not the other?

    Is a dual-US-UK citizen a US Citizen too?
    How can a dual-citizen be a natural born citizen?

    If two college students marry in Hawaii, and his parents are in Kenya, is it possible during summer break, they might visit his family, and get stuck with her pregnant?

    Glenn, you seem to have heard and read a lot, but you don’t know much. In 2002 Hawaii DOH went digital, but how many states destroy historic paper and microfilm? None. They treasure that stuff, and archive it. Plus, Hawaii has made two official public statements, well crafted by the Attorney General, affirming the state holds Obama’s original paper birth certificate. And if requested only Hawaii DOH can (first-generation) copy it using a camera.

    Glenn as to your son’s birth certificate. Did you pose the “every day” question, or did you push for a “special request” for a long form birth certificate?
    California has the regular “public” and a special “confidential” birth certificate.

  • zingzing

    dave nalle: “First off, Obama is not a particularly “black” person of color. He’s largely aculturated and fits the definition of the kind of African American who those with borderline racism would be most comfortable with.”

    boy howdy, what a cauldron! i hope you don’t mind it if any of your political friends or enemies get wind of that couple of sentences. they could really be taken out of context.

    take this how it should be taken, but he looks black, and that’s enough for some people. and “borderline racism” is a fucking weird concept. do you think if a white man had been born in hawaii to a (white) kenyan father, this would have come up?

    come on.

    i know you’re not a birther, but please, don’t deny that there is a racial element. it’s his color, it’s his name… it’s anything but his actual legitimacy that’s the problem here.

    maybe, just possibly maybe, it’s his political beliefs that are the problem, and that’s why people question his birth status or whatever. but does that make it any better? it’s bullshit.

    “He’s well known for being a Marxist and an internationalist.”

    and you’re well known for being full of shit. “internationalist”? what does that even mean? was bush an “internationalist”? he certainly went all out to get america involved with everyone’s business. and what kind of marxist would continue bush’s tax cuts to the rich? what kind of marxist would bail out major banks and then let them pay their way back out? (even if it seems the bailout is making a profit at this point…) what kind of a marxist is that? poor weather marxism? can we coin a term?

    and yeah, i remember you questioning (just after the election) whether or not obama was going to roll out the tanks in order to crush opposition to his socialist rule. looks like he didn’t, eh? your political acumen looks a bit off there. maybe you were wrong?

    dave, you’re a travesty. you can’t think straight anymore. you’ve gone to seed. where are your morals and your principles at this point? you’ve become a political ideologue, and it’s disgusting. keep telling your faithful whatever they need to hear and maybe you’ll get elected, but know that your balls have been removed and you’ll never be able to procreate again. you’re a dying breed.

    that said, it’s only as we get old and bitter that we become like you, and i hope that life doesn’t have that in store for me.

  • borderraven

    US Natural Born Citizen, eligible to serve in the Legislative Branch, Judicial Branch, AND the Executive Branch, is:
    a. Using the formula: (SOIL)+(MOM)+(DAD) = BABY CITIZENSHIP
    Thus:
    i. (USA)+(USA)+(USA) = US NATURAL BORN CITIZEN

  • borderraven

    British Nationality Act, 1948, Part II, Section 5. Citizenship by descent, (1)
    “Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth:
    Provided that if the father of such a person is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent only, that person shall not be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by virtue of this section unless—
    (a) that person is born or his father was born in a protectorate, protected state, mandated territory or trust territory or any place in a foreign country where by treaty, capitulation, grant, usage, sufferance, or other lawful means, His Majesty then has or had jurisdiction over British subjects; or”

    Foreign consulates are authorized in the US under treaty, therefore “His Majesty then has or had jurisdiction over British subjects”.

    If Senator Obama, a US Citizen, wants to be a US President, then the US Constitution says he must be a natural born citizen.

    Obama, by admitting his father was born in Kenya and never naturalized to a US Citizen, has already proved he is not a natural born citizen.

  • zingzing

    continuing #15…

    all that said, good on you for not being a birther. even if you are a [choose your readily deletable phrase]. you do have your sane moment[possible “s” here].

  • pablo

    Glenn 5

    “And one more thing – a long time ago I read how back in the late ’90’s, Hawaii took ALL the old original birth certificates, certified those certificates and entered all the data into their databases, then destroyed the original birth certificates. Why? To save taxpayer dollars.”

    As usual Glenn your just plain wrong. Whether it is the adoration of nuclear power that you hold, or your ranting on and on with your “warmer mongering” theories about the dreaded toxic greenhouse gas of carbon dioxide, or this issue about Obama’s birth cert, your just plain wrong.

    From the ABC affiliate station KITV dated Nov 1, 2008:

    “While many sites and news organizations have released copies provided by the Obama campaign, the rumors have persisted.

    “There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record,” DOH Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said.

    Fukino said she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate.

    “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,” Fukino said.”

    Destroyed? My ass Glenn, nice try though pal. Any yes I did notice how you qualified your false statement as truth, by saying “A long time ago I read”. Very cute, but I am not buying.

  • STM

    That Kenyan birth certificate was a complete bodgied-up job, and badly done at that.

    As a member of a Commonwealth country, I can tell you they were all different at the time, from country to country. The UK one, for instance, is a long form, while most of the Aussie ones are deep. They are completely different.

    Even in Australia, the form varied from state to state; that is a copy of one issued by the government of South Australia. The New South Wales and Queensland ones we’ve got at home are different again.

    The fake Obama one even has the same name for the South Australian registrar of the time.

    What a joke.

    But the big mistake is that it carries a Republic of Kenya stamp on it.

    At the time, Kenya was independent as a Dominion, not a republic … it had the same status as countries like Canada, Australia and New Zealand – independent sovereign nations, but not republics.

    Kenya didn’t become a republic until a YEAR AFTER the alleged issue of the fake Obama certificate.

    It helps to know things when you’re intent on a path of bullsh.t and deception.

    It’d be a bit like Canadian birth certificates carrying a Republic of Canada stamp.

    It’s not; it’s a Dominion, so why would they.

    And why would the Kenyans. Rhetorical questions BTW.

    Utter rubbish, and dangerous rubbish too (the whole issue) because fools believe it.

  • pablo

    STM

    Just because someone made a fake birth certificate and posted in on the internet means nothing regarding this subject…period.

    Furthermore to use such a reason to discredit it, is pure rubbish. The reason that many millions of people question Obama regarding his place of birth is simple, he refuses to provide it, and has spend over a million and a half dollars resisting attempts to disclose a reasonable request.

    In point of fact, I like you have no idea where he was born, but it is certainly reasonable to ask him to provide proof with the long form certificate. That coupled with the fact that Obama’s whole family has been involved with the CIA, as per the article above that I hyperlinked,above would make any reasonable intelligent unbiased person question him.

  • Cannonshop

    #2 Coach, it’s obvious if you think like a strategist for a minute-it’s Monica Lewinsky, only without the embarassing details, and darned useful for making Mr. Obama’s opponents look foolish.

    Remember: the Birther thing STARTED with the Democrats, during the Primaries. Useful idiots on the right have perpetuated it, that is all it is-a strategem for creating a massive strawman and perpetuating it, thus crippling any REAL critique of the Chicago-Machine-Politician-in-the-White House.

  • Clavos

    Good point, Cannon; one that usually gets buried in all the meaningless rhetoric.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

    The ‘birther thing’ started with the Dems????

    References, please.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    pablo –

    Careful about calling someone a liar. I read what I read. If what I read is wrong, then I am wrong, but I don’t lie, to wit:

    “In 2001 the state of Hawaii destroyed all paper birth certificates and stored the data in computers. After the state became overburdened with requests for a copy of the birth certificate, they released a statement.”

  • Glenn Contrarian

    But pablo –

    It looks as if my reference was wrong:

    In an e-mail, according to the Times, Klein wrote that CNN researchers had determined that Obama’s 1961 birth certificate no longer exists because Hawai’i officials had discarded paper documents in 2001 – a claim denied yesterday by Isle health officials. In 2001, Hawai’i’s paper documents were reproduced in electronic format but “any paper data prior to that still exists,” Health Department spokeswoman Okubo said.

    BUT the same article also states concerning Obama’s birth announcements in BOTH Hawaii’s major newspapers:

    Birthers wave off those birth announcements, saying that Obama family members 48 years ago could have phoned in false information to both newspapers.

    Right? Isn’t that the birthers’ stance? Read on:

    Such vital statistics, however, were not sent to the newspapers by the general public but by the Health Department, which received the information directly from hospitals, Okubo said.

    Birth announcements from the public ran elsewhere in both papers and usually included information such as the newborn’s name, weight and time of birth.

    “Take a second and think about that,” wrote Robert Farley of the St. Petersburg (Fla.) Times’ Pulitzer Prize winning Web site PoliticFact.com on July 1. “In order to phony those notices up, it would have required the complicity of the state Health Department and two independent newspapers – on the off chance this unnamed child might want to one day be president of the United States.”

    Okay, pablo? The whole birther stance is quite silly. And YOU are buying into it.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Dave –

    I never said the whole country had given up racism, just that it wasn’t a significant motivating factor in birtherism. First off, Obama is not a particularly “black” person of color.

    Riiiiiiiight.

    Dave, you’re not stupid and you’re not naive and you’re no fool. That tells me that you know quite well that racism IS a significant motivating factor. You also know quite well that many Republicans still have a major problem with race, as this poll from last week found that forty-six percent (a plurality) of Mississippi Republicans still think interracial marriage should be illegal – those Republicans who agreed with that were significantly more likely to support Palin for president(!) – and another poll in February showed that fully 51% of Republicans are now birthers.

    No, Dave, you’re not stupid nor naive nor a fool…but you’re on the side that is increasingly stupid, naive, and foolish.

  • Heloise

    Yeah, Dave is right. DC is a black town period.

    My problem with Obama’s status is that we should have laws that prevent anyone from high office if both parents are not natural born citizens. In my book, Obama is not a NBC. I thought he was electable so that’s why I promoted him.

    But is he a citizen, yes, but that does not end the controversy or the travesty for me. I said as much: he’s so American, grew up in Hawaii, white mom, Kenyan (absent) father, everybody has that as part of their resume.

    You don’t need to be a birther or after-birther to have problems with Obama citizenship IMO. Or problems with a constitution that would allow someone appt to AG whose parents were probably illegals!

  • Heloise

    Dr. D @6 too funny.

    Honestly, I bet he NEVER married the woman and that they never had a ceremony. And if they did then it made him a bigamist or trigamist because he had wives in Africa since HE WAS a Muslim exerting his right to marry more than one wife.

    The interpretation of the Constitution is the problem here. Now that we have SCOTUS in Obama’s potus there is no hope for CHANGE. Wow, that’s good Heloise.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Heloise –

    What was the citizenship of George Washington’s parents? Or John Adams’? Or Thomas Jefferson’s?

    Let me guess – the ‘founding fathers’ don’t count because they were all ‘really patriotic’, while today we certainly couldn’t think that someone with even ONE unAmerican parent might be a good patriotic American, oh no….

  • Loggie

    The nationality of Obama’s father is irrelevant to his eligibility. Obama himself revealed that his father was Kenyan in his memoirs, published in 1995. Yet not a single peep of objection from congress or the courts, including the Supreme court, on his candidacy.
    The only objections I see are from self serving constitutional interpreters who appear to have a view of Natural born citizen that is the exact opposite of what the entire body of the U.S government and the courts believe.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    I seem to recall that, before the birthers recovered from the production of the ‘Certification of Live Birth’ and started to claim that it did not constitute valid proof of birth and/or citizenship (it does, by any legal standard), some of them went to great lengths to try to prove that it was a forgery.

    I suspect that even if the “long form” certificate were to emerge, they’d say the same thing.

    Using the kind of standard the birthers want to impose, I, for example, can’t prove I’m in the US legally. As part of my visa application, I had to provide an original copy of my birth certificate. I therefore went to the registry office in the town where I was born and was presented with a handwritten form which stated that it was a certified copy of my entry in the register of births.

    Handwritten, mind you. And yet, by the standards mandated by the INS, it was valid proof of birth. But can you imagine what the birthers would say if Obama or the State of Hawaii were to produce something like that?

    Plain fact is, if you want to believe something badly enough, then no amount of evidence or rational argument will persuade you that you’re wrong.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Doc –

    Plain fact is, if you want to believe something badly enough, then no amount of evidence or rational argument will persuade you that you’re wrong.

    e.g. AGW is false, torture is good (when we do it), taxing the rich a penny more is bad, cutting education funding while cutting corporate taxes is good, the moon doesn’t cause the tides (see Bill O’Reilly)…

    …the list goes on.

  • Cannonshop

    #24 Yes, Glenn, it started with the Democrats-along with “Obama is a Muslim”, these rumours began after obama kicked clinton’s ass in…what, ohio? anyway, you ought to remember it better than I do, you and I were both calling the whole thing asnine at the time. (maybe some chemical exposures damaged your long-term memory?) There was drooling hope in the MSM for a floor fight at the convention over it, including coverage of a thirty-seconds-then-gone group called “PUMA” (“Party Unity My Ass”) who thought Obama was cheating during the primary (They were Clinton supporters), but that bunch didn’t last long.

    Mind that it HAS been right-wing droolers who’ve kept it alive-the same guys who think JFK was killed by the Cuban Mob, that Area 51 actually has anything interesting, and that the world is run by a conspiracy of black helicopters or somesuch.

    but the whole meme started in DEMOCRAT dirty-tricks squads. I’d call it one of the best dirty-tricks tactics your lot have ever managed-inventing a strawman charge and having your OPPONENTS latch on to it as if it were real, thus making them look twice the fool to anyone with half a brain.

  • http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com Sam Sewell

    It is inappropriate to include Obama’s missing history including his birth certificate in an article about conspiracy theories. The facts, not theories, of the issue are clear and uncontested.

    Obama is keeping the best available evidence secret. That is established fact, not theory. Let’s just add suppression of evidence to the other charges of election fraud, campaign finance violations and filing fraudulent documents in all 50 states.

    No matter what you might think there is no escaping that AKA Obama is not practicing the virtue of full disclosure.

    In 1961, the Public Health Services, U. S Department of Health, Education and Welfare, National Center for Health Statistics, National Vital Statistics Division published the “Vital Statistics of the United States

    Here is a blank copy of the Standard Certificate of Live Birth used by all states including Hawaii. This is the information being hidden by Obama.

    Plus read the article that is included with the blank copy.

    Here is what a real Hawaiian Birth Certificate looks like.

    If you are not suspicious of a man who hides his history I have a bridge in the desert I want to sell you.

    If you are unwilling to call for an investigation of a man who attempts to sell you a bridge in the desert I have some beach front property in Florida at the intersection of I75 and Florida # 29 that I want you to buy.

    If you place a down payment on a contract for the bridge in the desert and the beach front property in the swamp I would conclude that you voted for Obama

    Do you really think AKA Obama would have won the election if all the things he is hiding were made known?

    Do you really think AKA Obama will be able to finish his first term if all the things he is hiding are made known?

    The only conspiracy is the media and the obots who suppress the revelation of AKA Obama’s history
    Obama “I have nothing to hide but I’m hiding it.”

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Um, C-shop – I asked for references. Why? Because I’ve got a terrible memory (ask my wife) and I honestly don’t remember when these rumors started before the Republicans did it.

    BUT I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and take you at your word. BUT claiming that Clinton supporters (of which I was one (an alternate state delegate)) invented this strawman and then HAD – your word, “HAD”, meaning that WE forced it on them – the right wing lug nuts latch on to it…

    …come on, C-shop, that’s stretching things a bit, don’t you think? Like it was some kind of conspiracy? “Hey, let’s start a rumor that the Republicans will buy into and it’ll make them all look like idiots!”

    Really, C-shop?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Here is a blank copy of the Standard Certificate of Live Birth used by all states including Hawaii.

    Well, that’s bullshit for a start. I work with birth certificates on a daily basis, and I can assure you that each state has its own format. There is no “standard” national birth certificate.

  • Heloise

    Glenn, how did your folks get here from another country? They just walked off the boat into Ellis Island. When anglos were immigrating there were NO questions asked. But when the brown folks started coming we had to ask questions, like: “who the hell are you and what do you want?” Everything changes that’s life.

    So the founding fathers are right up there with the 3 boats that brought the criminals here from Ireland and England. NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Should we and can we stop now?

  • http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com Sam Sewell
  • Heloise

    “Let me guess – the ‘founding fathers’ don’t count because they were all ‘really patriotic’, while today we certainly couldn’t think that someone with even ONE unAmerican parent might be a good patriotic American, oh no….”

    Your argument (if you can call it that) Glenn is purely subjective and emotional, therefore moot. Who cares if they were patriotic? They are by definition so. My question: are you anti Constitution like the rest of the freaking libs?

    It’s all about the laws of the land and the Constitution and its amendments. There were no laws about immigration back then. And we got the 14th amendment about citizenship because slaves had to become, not people, but citizens…hello.

    You were a citizen if you were born here. African slaves were born in well, Africa. They were truly “grandfathered in” so to speak into citizenship. Hell, I should have written an article about same.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Sam –

    Here’s information about the Hawaii law:

    One thing that remains unclear is whether Obama has a copy of the original 1961 Certificate of Live Birth, or if he would even be allowed to see it if he asked.

    Hawai’i’s disclosure law (Hawai’i Revised Statutes 338-18) states that “it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part on any such record … ”

    The law further states that the Health Department “shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.”

    Those who have “direct and tangible interest” are generally limited to the person named in the record, the spouse, parent, descendant, or personal representative, or by someone who is involved in marital, parental or death litigation involving the named person’s vital record or other legal reason established by a court order, and various official agency or organization representatives, including the state director of health, according to the law.

  • S.T..M

    You have to admire the Obama family’s tenacity all those years ago, orgainising all this stuff, covering their tracks, sending false info to the Honolulu Advertiser, changing dates, applying for a Hawaii certificate even though the young lad was born in Kenya, a far-off land, etc etc, just in case, one day, their son Barack became …. president of the US!!

    Shows amazing foresight, that.

    That, or a Kenyan witchdoctor with a bone through his nose foretold the entire thing.

    The other wonderful and educational thing about this is that the more I read this stuff, the more I realise that America has a greater percentage of total crackpots than any other nation on earth.

    As for original certificates, many countries still keep them but have stored them deep in the archives but now only give you a short form copy printed off from computer records.

    Mine included. I had to pick one up for my son and daughter a few years back because we couldn’t find the originals.

    I remember that my son was born at Royal North Shore hospital in Sydney, the year of his birth, even the time. My youngest daughter was born at the Royal Women’s Hospital, Paddington, a neighbourhood of inner Sydney (and the hospital has suspiciously now been demolished to sell off the valuable land, but I think it was actually done to cover some of the tracks just in case she wants to become Prime Minister one day). Oh yes, their births were recorded in the Sydney Morning Herald.

    I have the real annoucements and the photcopies somewhere in a box but I can’t be bothered rummaging through 50,000 pieces of paper to find it.

    However, since getting the computer short form copies of their birth certificates, everyone in Australia will now likely be suggesting that their actual place of birth was Burkina Faso, because I once lived in Baghdad and all things being relative, Iraq and Africa aren’t that far away from each other.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    STM –

    You can’t fool us! We all just know that your son was born in Guatemala, and you’ve been working all these many years covering up his REAL heritage just so you can get him elected as Prime Minister of Australia!

    We’re on to you, sir!

  • S.T..M

    Tee hee.

    But I shouldn’t scoff, really.

    Those founding fathers 200 years back put that natural-born clause in the constitution for a good reason, even though they didn’t explain what it actually meant despite everyone STILL thinking it simply means a person entitled at birth to US citizenship, partly to ensure that no one of loyalist or British background would head up a US government that would then be pointed back to an allegience with the Crown.

    Wouldn’t they be turning in their graves now if they knew that a bloke who is secretly a British Citizen is now president of the US.

    And not just any old British citizen, but a sambo!!

    This could be remembered as the greatest constitutional crisis in history, especially of that bloke in the psych hospital who is actually George Washington ever gets out and tells the truth about this.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    You can’t fool us! We all just know that your son was born in Guatemala, and you’ve been working all these many years covering up his REAL heritage just so you can get him elected as Prime Minister of Australia!

    Shouldn’t be too hard, actually. The current Australian prime minister was born in Wales. Not the New South version, either.

    Can’t believe those wily Aussies let that one slip past them.

  • Cannonshop

    #36, I didn’t mean to imply that it was forced on the GOP-keep in mind, no matter which direction you look on the political spectrum, there are legions of Konspiracy Nutters who’ll latch on to the most ridiculous crap. I meant to imply a certain fortunate happenstance, that the rumour was started as a Primary-season-smear, which was picked up by the other party’s more radicalized and paranoid elements (and the GOP has some doozies, too-seems the right picked up most of the Black Helicopter crowd…)

    But political operatives are political operatives-the ones in your party would have to be brain-dead not to capitalize on the idiots in the GOP with this one-and it isn’t exactly difficult to do, either. the internet, after all, is a wasteland of conspiracy theorists and provocative commentation, just dropping a couple anonymous posts on, say, Michelle Malkin’s site, or Redstate, or Town Hall can keep the fringes spinning for days.

    I often wondered if some of the more…obnoxious posts I used to see on Daily Kos weren’t generated by Karl Rove’s people for a similar purpose in the nineties and in 2004.

  • Jordan Richardson

    just dropping a couple anonymous posts on, say, Michelle Malkin’s site, or Redstate, or Town Hall can keep the fringes spinning for days.

    Quoted for truth. Grab a pitcher of margaritas to go with it and you’ve got yourself one hell of a Monday morning.

  • zingzing

    cannonshop making some bit of sense… mind is blown. the birther meme developed out of a series of mass emails, so it’s hard to pinpoint the direct source of it, but it’s not hard to imagine that, due to the fact that it started in mid-2008, it had its origin in the politics of the democratic primary.

    if it was too little, too late, it was the dems (aka hills). which would be natural… if it was a rather insidious, if politically savvy move, it was the republicans. which would also be, to my ever-growing chagrin, natural.

    the republicans do have one thing up on the dems. they are infinitely better at politics. they may look like assholes while doing it, but it’s fucking effective, and even if their base comes off looking like a bunch of loons along with them, they still get elected.

    the miracle of america!

    poop.

  • http://cinemasentries.com/ El Bicho

    “My problem with Obama’s status is that we should have laws that prevent anyone from high office if both parents are not natural born citizens. In my book, Obama is not a NBC.”

    Yet, we don’t have those laws, so it doesn’t matter what’s in your book. Besides, in your book you were JFK. Shouldn’t we have laws that state the president should only be one person at a time?

  • http://cinemasentries.com/ El Bicho

    I know people are still fighting the Civil War and the 1960s, but is Election 2010 still open as well?

  • Clavos

    …is Election 2010 still open as well?

    Hell, EB, 2008 is.

  • S.T..M

    This thread just gets better and better. Keep ‘em coming’

  • troll

    surfer dude – the underlying argument (NBCers) seems to boil down to whether or not American presidents must be bastards

    so far they’ve all lived up to this rule imo

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Hell, EB, 2008 is.

    :-) So should we be expecting McCain to go marching up to the front door of the White House any day now and demand a rematch?

  • Heloise

    El bicho, I wrote the book so therefore I make the rules or break the rebirth laws as needed. You are not there yet but I am. THe law was there we didn’t follow it. Case closed on your hand El.

  • S.T..M

    G’day Troll. I suspect you spot on there mate. Hope all’s good with you BTW. We seem to come and go here a bit. Cheers.

    And nicely observed Doc … yeah, she WAS born in Wales.

    I’m less worried about that than I am about her getting into bed with the loony left after having to form a coalition with a couple of Greens and some crazy independents in the upper and lower houses after the vote going down to the wire in December.

    I’m over ‘em. I’ve voted for ‘em all my life but they’re just incomptetent. The State Labor government got smashed last weekend; they now have about 20 seats in State parly, while the Libs have about 65. OIt’s their own fault; they’ve forgotten what and who they are.

    I wouldn’t mind the Greens so much if weren’t all as mad cut snakes. It’s not about tree-hugging either … they really are on the loony left and Labor has had to lurch to the left to accommodate them.

    I never signed up for that, nor did I sign up for a carbon tax.

    Bastards.

    The PM last year: “There will never be a carbon tax under a government I lead”.

    So what’s she doing? Take one guess.

    It’s the same down this neck of the woods Yanks: as always, you can never trust a f.cking pollie.

    In the end, they’ll always kick you in the guts. They’re nearly all lying, self-serving bastards.

  • zingzing