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Israeli Nukes Can Obliterate Iran

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I received an e-mail recently from the Israeli newspaper Haaretz with the subject line: Stand up to — Iran's President — Ahmadinejad. Inside was a picture of an exuberant Ahmadinejad and the punch line: “We cannot live with a nuclear Iran.” The banner was linked to a two minute video by Aish.com.

This, in turn, is really a slideshow starting with a picture of Adolf Hitler. Followed by a gruesome picture of undernourished adult males in what I assume is a liberated concentration camp. The narrator says: "Imagine. you could have stopped Hitler in 1938." Showing Ahmadinejad above the quote: Israel must be wiped off the map, the narrator announces: "Today a new Hitler is on the world stage calling for the destruction of the state of Israel." The narrator falls silent for the display of two more pictures of Ahmadinejad above the quotes: "The Zionist regime is a dried up and rotten tree which will be annihilated with one storm." And: "The elimination of the Zionist regime will be smooth and simple."

The first quote about wiping out Israel is a matter of international debate. Some analysts say Ahmadinejad never made such a statement, and that it is an intentional mistranslation by Israel or their supporters to overstate the danger from Iran. If they are right and only the latter two quotes can be accredited to Ahmadinejad, he is not alone in wanting Zionism to be eliminated, which doesn't necessarily mean exterminating Jews or obliterating Israel. In my recent interview with Israeli author and academic Ilan Pape, he said: "Israel has to be de-Zionised to a point before any genuine reconciliation can be attempted." He was talking about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Whether Ahmadinejad said "Israel must be wiped off the map" or not, the comparison to Hitler and the Holocaust is a blatant misrepresentation of one of the world's most horrific acts. In 1938 the world was a different place, not least in the perception of Jews. in the 30s was an era when stereotypes were treated as fact and taught to children. Discrimination was accepted, in some cases even expected of people. Jews were stereotypically evil, greedy and devious – and persecuted because of it.

When Hitler's views began emerging, entrenched stereotypes made them indifferent, and even those who didn’t hate Jews. In short, the Jews had no friends in the world capable of or willing to stop Hitler. Today the situation is very different.

The Holocaust was a horrific and tragic occurrence. The world did not even attempt to stop it pre-emptively. However, the world's postwar guilt led, even if only indirectly, to the partitioning of Palestine for a Jewish homeland.  

Second Holocaust Foiled

In its infancy, Israel faced threats from Arab countries surrounding it, who really did want to carry out a second holocaust, and who wanted to wipe Israel off the map. As Egypt's President announced before the Sinai war: "Egypt has decided to dispatch her heroes, the disciples of pharaoh and the sons of Islam and they will cleanse the Land of Israel….There will be no peace on Israel's border because we demand vengeance, and vengeance is Israel's death."  The U.S.  began supporting Israel militarily in the 60s and rescued Israel from the brink of defeat by airlifting military supplies during the Yom Kippur war: the aggressors Egypt and other neighboring Arab states learned that the U.S. wasn't going to let Israel be defeated. Since then, Israel faces only a very small threat from neighboring countries, and some have signed peace accords. The others are reduced to funding internal resistance groups against Israel's occupation, none of which are anywhere near capable of wiping Israel off the map.

In any case, the developed world is a different place: an era of equal rights for all. With equal access in the media and satellite beaming different cultures to western television, stereotypes are no longer people's first reference. Persecution is a crime no matter the victim, and children are being brought up to treat everyone the same.

Let's assume Ahmadinejad does want Israel wiped off the map.

Far from having no friends, Israel is now in the "in" crowd, with the most powerful friends in the world:  the U.S., U.K. and any other states wanting to stay in America's favor. With the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), perhaps the most powerful lobby in America, America's world influence and massive nuclear arsenal, Israel is one of the world’s best protected countries. If this support wasn't enough to deter anyone considering an attack, or "the destruction of Israel", Israel has a sizeable nuclear deterrent of its own, widely thought to be 200-400 active nuclear warheads. This is a significant deterrent against attack.

Some analysts cite sources putting Israel's nuclear arsenal much higher. The sources aren't readily available, making the claims difficult to corroborate. If Israel has 400 nuclear warheads (and I suspect at least, that given the secrecy of the Israeli proliferation machine), then Tel Aviv has the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world, bigger than China or France. Iran is years from even having one workable nuclear warhead, and depending on the size and weight of the prototype building a missile to carry it could take just as long. Thus Israel has sufficient capabilities to defend itself, along with protection from the U.S. as No. 1 nuclear proliferator. Ahmadinejad's patriotism is the driving force behind the dramatic showdown with the U.S. and the world over wanting the country's right to nuclear power under the Non-Proliferation Treaty, which Israel has not ratified. Surely such patriotism would prevent him from risking the total obliteration of his country by attack Israel.

What's more, Israeli officials know that there is no such "second holocaust" threat from a nuclear Iran. As Gareth Porter reported in the Electronic Intifada.

An article in 2004 in the online journal of a hard-line think-tank, the Ariel Centre for Policy Research, revealed that "one of the options that has been considered should Iran publicly declare itself to have nuclear weapons is for Israel to put an end to what is called its policy of 'nuclear ambiguity' or 'opacity'”.

The author, Shalom Freedman, said that in light of Israel's accumulation of "over 100 nuclear weapons" and its range of delivery systems for them, even if Iran were to acquire nuclear weapons within a few years, the "tremendous disproportion between the strength of Israel and an emergent nuclear Iran should serve as a deterrent." 

Scaremongering

Returning to the Aish.com slideshow, after the Hitler comparisons displaying the existential threat to Israel from Iran, it goes on with yet more groundless scaremongering: "This is a war” – (a war?) –  “not only against Israel, but against the west as well." The picture shows angry Muslims burning an American flag with the quotation. “I warn the great powers [who] fan the flames of Muslim rage, [we] will annihilate them all.” The narrator continues: "Iran is close to developing the technology needed to build nuclear weapons. Iran's Shahab 3 missile can carry nuclear warheads to a range of 2000 km capable of reaching Europe, Israel and American forces in the Middle East."

As yet, Iran hasn't built a nuclear warhead, so nobody knows what size or weight it will be.  Nobody can speculate whether the Shahab 3 will carry it, let alone how far.

You may be wondering why Israelis would want to create mass hysteria on the basis of lies: the same reason it denies Palestinian right of return, and is building a great wall around the Jewish state… Zionism's greatest fear is Israel becoming predominantly Arab.

You may be confused. Israel's Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh explained in an interview with the Jerusalem Post, saying that under the threat from a nuclear Iran "most Israelis would prefer not to live here; most Jews would prefer not to come here with their families; and Israelis who can live abroad will. People are not enthusiastic about being scorched." Thus the danger, Sneh elaborated, is that Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would "be able to kill the Zionist dream without pushing a button. That's why we must prevent this regime from obtaining nuclear capability at all costs."

So, the fear is not over the existence of Israel, but over how Israel exists.

I suspect Washington's war planners know the existential threat is non-existent, but have their own reasons for failing to dispel the myth. America does not want allied Israel's Middle East hegemony to end, especially not in favor of an enemy as staunch as Iran.

Israel putting such weight on their lies taking hold in the world media, has guaranteed their fears will be a reality should Iran successfully enrich uranium to weapons grade. That is why you can rest assured, if diplomacy and sanctions fail to stop Iranian enrichment, Israel will attack with or without U.S help. There is a distinct possibility that the attack will involve the use of nuclear weapons. Iran is more in danger of a nuclear holocaust from Israel.

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About Liam Bailey

  • http://ahmadinejadquotes.blogspot.com Al

    President Ahmadinejad’s real views are summarized on this website.

  • cyrus the great

    Liam,
    Good article. Has Israel ever tested a nuclear weapon?

  • Liam Bailey

    Cyrus, it is widely thought that Israel took part in a joint nuclear test with South Africa, 1991 I think, but it is denied.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    I find it hard to believe that they’d have built over 200 nukes without testing at least one.

    Dave

  • John

    Israel probably tested several nuclear bombs, at some places, the Americans do it aswell.

    Quite logical if you ask me,

    Am Yisrael Chai..

  • saeed

    Israeil is weak
    we Iranians will fight till our last drop of blood
    we will blow them all to pices

  • Arch Conservative

    I have long thought that it would be a very good idea if the powers that be at BC would decide to add a finance/money category for posting articles and discussion relating to all things fiscal.

    Now with Hillary breathing down the necks of the American public, threatening to take more of our individual earned income to fund her socialist, utopian, dreamworld, I find it an apt time to create such a forum.

    While it may not be as exciting and eye catching as the new Glosslip category which is currently touting “Dong in a thong,” a finance forum would be a very practical and useful way for BC authors and critics to share, advise, and learn from each other regarding matters of finance.

  • MBD

    We must remember that in time of war what is said on the enemy’s side of the front is always propaganda, and what is said on our side of the front is truth and righteousness, the cause of humanity and a crusade for peace.
    — Walter Lippmann

  • moonraven

    I agree with Iran’s president. He seems like a pretty straightahead guy, is clarly very intelligent and has a wonderfully black sense of humor. And so far as I know, he has not committed genocide–either in his own country or against his neighbors.

    Olmert of Israel cannot make that claim (I know he is not the president, but the president is currently on ice while the rape charges against him by female employees are being investigated). In fact, from what I know, there has been a fair amount of calls for his head for the war crimes committed last summer in Lebanon–especially the cluster bombs and mining of southern Lebanon areas–and the targeting of purely civilian sites for bombing. And those calls have come from within Israel.

    I have spent enough time in the Middle East to have a pretty good feel for the overall set of dynamics there, and the only reason the government of Israel is able to get away with bullying and threatening is because management (the US government) has always defended it.

    (Sort of reminds me of Dave Nalle’s abuses on a site called blogcritics.)

    Israel has never complied with a single one of the UN resolutions against it–and we are talking since 1948.

    It has decided to treat its neighbors in the image of Hitler’s government–the Israel actions of grabbing territory and creating apartheid look like the same abuses that Hitler justified as needing “living space”.

    Israel has been waging genocide essentially almost since the moment the Second World War ended the genocide against European Jews.

    Apparently something happen to imprint that model in the Zionist program–and Israel’s government is determined to replay it with themselves in the Nazi role.

    This has been going on enough years that it has become eminently predictable.

    I agree with the president of Iran’s position that Israel has abused its status as a nation, and should be de-countrified. I believe he also suggested putting Israel someplace in Central Europe.

    Not such a bad idea, but given that it was the British who had the “Palestine Mandate” and who gave into the Zionist terrorists when it was a choice between controlling them or fighting Rommel in the Egyptian desert, I suggest somewhere in Yorkshire wouldn’t be bad.

  • Joe

    moonraven;

    You must write things like that just to get a rise out of people – there isn’t enough crack in the world to get you forked up enough to actually believe that crap.

  • moonraven

    Joe,

    I wouldn’t make assumptions if I were you.

    My opinions are based on Middle East experience.

    What are yours based on?

  • Joe

    Your term “Israeli genocide” pretty much did it for me.

  • BriMan

    Iran currently does not have the capability of producing weapons-grade material and is in fact technologically a decade or so behind that curve – they are not an imminent threat to anyone right now.

    A simple reading of international inspector’s reports and a basic understanding of the technical process to achieve weapons-grade raw materials forces you to this conclusion.

    Any other conclusion is based on politics and emotion (fear). I do not advocate for the placing of innocent life in harm’s way on the basis of fear whether it is the duty of military personnel or not. It is no small coincidence that the same people advocating for war are becoming fabulously wealthy because of it.

  • MBD

    U.S. Says Arms Link Iranians to Iraqi Shiites
    By James Glanz
    February 12, 2007

    BAGHDAD, Feb. 11 — After weeks of internal debate, senior United States military officials on Sunday literally put on the table their first public evidence of the contentious assertion that Iran supplies Shiite extremist groups in Iraq with some of the most lethal weapons in the war. They said those weapons had been used to kill more than 170 Americans in the past three years.

    The officials also asserted, without providing direct evidence, that Iranian leaders had authorized smuggling those weapons into Iraq for use against the Americans. The officials said such an assertion was an inference based on general intelligence assessments.

    Conclusion: Curveball is back at work.

  • The village idiot

    Just a point of interest. Usually Im drunk on my ass and cant remember what blogs I comment about. In other words Im to fucked up to read comments directed to me, what I said and all that other shit. [Edited]

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    If Iran is a threat to Israel, I say Israel should attack Iran…NOT the US…

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    But if Iran is really supplying terrorists in Iraq with weapons to use against the US, then the US would be justified in punishing Iran in some manner…but a GROUND WAR into Iran is insanity, bereft of a Draft…

  • MBD

    War consists of thousands of lions led by a handful of donkeys.

  • ProfEssays

    It is evident that the US simply shared their nuclear technologies with Israel. All the other countries developed their technologies on their own and had to conduct nuclear tests. If Iran is helped by the Northern Korea it will also be able to go without tests.

  • Liam Bailey

    Professays, that is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever read on this forum. Britain and the U.S worked together on the first nuclear bombs, UK scientists were the forefathers, although I am not proud of that fact, but if it wasn’t them it would have been somone else right?

    Britain gave Israel nuclear weapons technology in the 50’s.

    The U.S cut the UK off around the same time, although i don’t know if it was related to the Israel issue. The U.S went on to develop the first thermonuclear bombs with a much higher yield. Britain conducted two set of tests after this, trying to catch up, which they didn’t do, they ended up detonating one massive Hydrogen bomb and printing in the papers they had achieved a thermonuclear reaction, which the massive hydrogen expolsion, bigger than any –hydrogen explosion– ever seen appeared to have been. My memmory is Hazy, something just appeared in my mind, I’m sure the UK did eventually master thermonuclear but I’m not sure if they did it in a third set of test or the hoax story I told above was the first test and they achieve thermonuclear reaction in the second, i’m sure someone out there will kindly tell me.

    Trident is now the U.S and UK’s shared nuclear defense system.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Marthe,

    My last name refers to a blackbird, but you’d have to know Polish to know that. So, I’m not gonna mess with your on-screen moniker, “moonraven”. But I’m not gonna use it either.

    Let’s look at some of this bird shit you’ve posted, hiding behind your “experience” in the Middle East.

    Let’s bear in mind that I’m a very sharp and nasty critic of Israeli policy and of its society. But I never bought into the self-hating crap that so-called “experts” like Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pape have bought into, and never acted in such a fashion as to undermine and destroy the society I live in, as have traitors like Shimon Peres, and the man whose ideas he has virtually stolen, Uri Avneri.

    And now we cut to you, dear:

    “It [Israel] has decided to treat its neighbors in the image of Hitler’s government–the Israeli actions of grabbing territory and creating apartheid look like the same abuses that Hitler justified as needing ‘living space’.

    Israel has been waging genocide essentially almost since the moment the Second World War ended the genocide against European Jews.

    Apparently something happen to imprint that model in the Zionist program–and Israel’s government is determined to replay it with themselves in the Nazi role.”

    A few nights ago, I had to sit guard duty in the “bootka” at the village gate. To keep myself awake, I turned on the radio. It was an all music station with an English speaking DJ. I heard abouyt 55 songs over my shift, and of them, 50 were American or British, and the remainder were French, Spanish and one song that sounded like Hindi…

    It was only when they got to the commercials that I was able to figure out where this station originated from.

    “Girls, hurry up and send in your poems to http://www.ahlen.com and be eligible for fantastic prizes!” After talking about the obligatory electronic gadgets and jewelry, the commercial touted “JD 50 gift booklets and a night at the Kempinski Hotel in Amman, or the Kempinski Ishtar on the Dead Sea!! All entries must be in by February 6th!”

    Wouldn’t you know it? It was already 01:00 in Amman when this aired… Just like in America.

    This escapist station playing its love songs didn’t talk about the “honor killings” that are rife in Jordanian (and Israeli Arab) society; it didn’t mention the 5,000 South Syrian Arabs killed in cold blood when Arafat first revolted against King Hussein in 1970, nor of the thousands of South Syrian Arabs locked up in refugee camps for nearly two decades under Jordanian rule. Not a single peep to disturb the pretense of being an American radio station with “all music, all the time.” It would have been the perfect job for the publisher of Blog Critics Magazine, Eric Olsen, if he needed some spare cash with no work involved…

    But I digress, Marthe…

    “Genocide?” Usually, in genocidal situations, the population being killed off decreases. The population of the Arab refugees has increased several fold… This is genocide? When the Germans murdered off my people, they reduced us by a third. When the Turks committed their genocide on Armenians they reduced the Armenian population by 1.5 million.

    Would you like to be my accountant? If you can make being broke an experience in multiplying one’s money four fold, the way the Arab population increase around here has increased four fold, you’d be the answer to this poor Jew’s prayers!

    Apartheid?

    I thought someone with your experience would at least know that in this neck of the woods, different nationalities do not generally mix in terms of where they live or go to school, and never have. That’s not apartheid, that’s just the way things work around here. Obviously, you don’t know that.

    If we were doing ANYTHING like what the Nazis did, the air would be thick from the flakes of the human flesh being burned in crematoria, and the air would stink with the smell of burning flesh, like it did in Auchwitz. Arabs would run in fear and hide when a Jew approached. I’d spend my evenings polishing my quirt, and using the Arabs on the lower slopes of Ma’aleh Levona for target practice.

    NO ARAB WOULD SHOW HIS FACE ON THE TEMPLE MOUNT

    Cut the lies. Cut the bullshit. It’s really really tiresome. Only idiots with warped minds buy into this crap.

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy: “never acted in such a fashion as to undermine and destroy the society I live in”. Except for those times during the last Israeli invasion of Lebanon when you, on more than one occasion, enthusiastically endorsed the idea of a nuclear attack on Tel Aviv. Have you yet retracted those words..?

    Not that I support moonraven’s point of view but, given that your 21st century mindset is obsessed by entirely-unsupported-by-any-evidence ideas from thousands of years ago, it strikes me as deliriously comedic that you call on moonraven to “Cut the bullshit”. Only idiots with warped minds buy into that crap…

  • MBD

    The only bullshit here is that which is spread throughout the writings of Ruvy.

  • moonraven

    I don’t think I should respond to Ruvy directly, as this is obviously an area where he goes ballistic and becomes completely irrational.

    However, I stand 100% by my previous post. Israel should not be allowed to continue as a nation, as its internal and external policies promote genocide and its abuses of human rights are both terribly extensive and well-documented. The resolutions that the UN General Assembly has passed against it are numerous and they are substantial. The only reason that Israel has not been sanctioned is because the US routinely vetoes sanctions against it in the Security Council.

    Just as we, as a species, have pretty much worn out our welcome on theplanet, Israel has more than worn out its welcome in the community of nations.

    And at no time on this site, nor in this lifetime, have I ever promoted a nuclear attack of Tel Aviv–or on anyplace else. I am completely anti-nuclear, and even changed my professional career path because of that.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    So true. Nuking the Israelis would be too neat and clean for Moonraven. She would prefer something slower and more torturous. I’m sure the arabs could come up with something that would please her once the state of Israel was dissolved.

    As for the resolutions of the UN general assembly, they should be taken about as seriously as the resolutions foxes pass declaring the hen house to be a legal hunting preserve.

    Dave

  • MCH

    “As for the resolutions of the UN general assembly, they should be taken about as seriously as the resolutions foxes pass declaring the hen house to be a legal hunting preserve.”
    – Dave (Vox Populi) Nalle

    Or as seriously as a phony who claims he accidentally used a fraudulent name while conversing with himslef on a blog site…

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Or comments made by anonymous stalkers who are incapable of making any productive contribution to a discussion.

    Dave

  • SHARK

    Dave Nalle, aka Vox Populi: “Or comments made by anonymous stalkers who are incapable of making any productive contribution to a discussion.”

    Nalle/Vox, seriously — you gave up your right to spout this kind of shit when you created an anonymous stalker whose job was to compliment YOU.

    Everything you say is suspect.

    Liar.

    ====

    Vox on Nalle: “Of the characters in The Magnificent Seven, the picture unquestionably looks most like the Robert Vaughn character.”

    Nalle on Vox: “I’ve seen figures similar to the ones Vox quotes.”

    Vox on links HE provided (as Nalle): “The claim that this article is ‘GOP spin’ is an interesting one, since it seems to be based on reports direct from Iraqis inside Iraq if you follow the links.”

    “Liars — when they speak the truth — are not believed.” — Aristotle

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer.php?name=gonzo%20marx D’oh

    (side to Shark..good luck with the struggle..bad taste in my mouth….underscore between my old first and last names at the hotmail place if ya even need me…. xoxoxo)

  • moonraven

    Dave has now indicated that I am a liar–wow, the Big P for Projection again!

    And his extremist libertarianism I suppose is the rationale for why he pooh poohs the only planet-wide body that has had ANY effect on anything?

    UN resolutions are just so much toilet paper?

    Once the state of Israel is dissolved the arabs don’t have to come up with ANYTHING–torturous or otherwise. The game will be over.

    The fact that I am on the arab side does not make me a proponent of nuclear weapons.

    Ol’ Dave has really gone off the deep end this time–right into an empty pool.

    Nothing slow and torturous for him….

  • Martin Lav

    I’ve lived in Iran for a number of years and it is within their nature to be full of hyperbole and bravado with little substance to back it up.
    For chrissakes, they are still proud of their long and storied culture, which is fine, but they still ride camels.
    Look at the bluster from the former Iraqi ruler Sadaam Hussein when he called for the “Mother of All Battles” his army was devastated in a couple of weeks. Look, the Iranians slugged it out with the Iraqi’s for what…..8 years? Gimme a break, this is all Neocan scripting 101…..these people will live in Peace with the Jews (oh, by the way, my neighbors were Jews in Iran) if the WEST stays out of it and the Zionists agree to the UN resolutions.

    I hate too sound like Martha Ray flapping her dentures, but yeesh…..she may be a fraction right on this one, if you can get past all of her intentionally inflammatory rhetoric….

  • moonraven

    The Zionists will never agree to the UN resolutions.

    They have been given a clear message by Daddy Warbucks and Co. (all the US government administrations since Israel was made a nation) that they don’t have to.

    And so long as Daddy W. has that Security Council veto, they won’t have to.

    By the way, age implies wisdom, not dentures. My Mohawk grandfather had all his perfect teeth when he died at 77. I got the gene for his teeth.

    You should be so lucky.

  • moonraven

    Just a grammatical point–your use of the prersent perfect (I’ve lived) implies that you are living in Iran now. Yet you indicate your neighbors WERE Jews….

  • MBD

    “Look at the bluster from the former Iraqi ruler Sadaam Hussein when he called for the “Mother of All Battles” his army was devastated in a couple of weeks.”

    Look at the bluster of “Mission Accomplished” by George Bush almost 4 years ago. An army can be devaststed in a couple of weeks or a couple of years. Our disaster is that our army and marines are down to sending the reserves back into Iraq two or three times and having to offer large bonuses to get enlistmemts and re-enlistments. We now have a mercenary military, and to further downgrade the military, test scores have been lowered for recruits.

    Bluster is for fools.

  • http://www.illiteratewithdrawal.com Scott

    Liam Bailey,

    According to Wikipedia , in 1958 the US traded its research on thermonuclear weapons with the UK in exchange for information on Britain’s VX nerve toxin. It appears that that exchange of info at least as something to do with UK mastery of thermonuclear technology.

  • MBD

    Only in today‘s strange world or in “Dr. Strangelove or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb” would we countenance the possibility that a latter day version of the insane General Jack D. Ripper would order a first strike nuclear attack on another country.

  • Martin Lav

    “prersent perfect (I’ve lived)”
    “neighbors WERE Jews….”

    Sorry, I meant I used to live there, not that the Iranians killed my neighbors because they were Jews.

    “age implies wisdom, not dentures”

    Sorry Marthe, I thought your other screen name was Marthe Raye, and I was making a lame joke about the US Citizen Martha Ray that lived in the US and use to appear on TV commercials pushing gum glue.

    Apparently you aren’t one and the same person.

  • Arch Conservative

    “I agree with the president of Iran’s position that Israel has abused its status as a nation, and should be de-countrified. I believe he also suggested putting Israel someplace in Central Europe.”

    What he actually said was that Israel should be wiped off the map. Violence toward Jews was implicit in his statements. Please tell me Ms. Moonraven, when was the last time an Israeli PM publicly called for a muslim nation to be wiped off the map?

    I guess Ms. Moonbat is wearing her raving anti-semite hat today. [Personal attack deleted]

  • MBD

    “What he actually said was that Israel should be wiped off the map”

    Not according to what Ahmadinejad said according to this web site which was referenced earlier.

    There was no threat made to “wipe Israel off the face of the map.”

    We are entitled to our own opinions but not to our own facts.

    The existence of the [Zionist] regime is tantamount to the permanent imposition of an unbridled threat, so that none of the Islamic nations and countries of the region can feel secure from its threat. The closer these countries and nations are to the epicenter of this threat, the more insecure they feel. The people of Palestine exist within the context of such a threat. For that reason, they have not spent even a single day with peace of mind and tranquility for at least the past sixty years. Three generations of the children of Palestine have lived and are presently living under these circumstances. The peoples of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and the entire Middle East are essentially in a similar situation.

    As a result of the presence of the usurper Zionist regime, an enormous portion of the wealth and assets of the Islamic countries and the region are spent on maintaining defensive strength, and at times on actual defense. In addition, an important part of the human resources, which are the most fundamental assets of any nation, have been expended for the same purpose. […]

    Sowing disunity among the nations and governments of the region is the foundation of the continued existence of this usurper regime. By their insidious interference and by creating an atmosphere of mistrust and resentment, they divide the countries and governments of the region, so that in this atmosphere and by setting up certain covert relationships, they make possible the imposition of costly military and economic pacts, along with the disgraceful political burdens of the dominant system on the nations and governments of the region. The Zionist regime is the focus of accord for the bullying countries and the adversaries of the Islamic community, and an adversary of Muslims. Enemies and ill-wishers, by strengthening and supporting such a threat, put effective pressure on the Islamic community and the countries and nations of the region, and, despite their deep and numerous differences, they converge and are united at this single point.

    In fact, all of the dominant powers impose their power on Muslims through the regime that occupies Jerusalem; and that regime, as their agent, has assumed the responsibility to terrorize, threaten, sow disunity, and sabotage the political, economic and cultural relations between the countries of the region with each other and with other countries of the world.

    The bullying powers use various excuses to prevent the transfer of science, technology and progress to the nations of the region, and regard [our advancement] as a threat to the corrupt Zionist regime. They do not allow the countries of the region to tread on the path to progress and advancement. They even oppose indigenous technologies in the Islamic countries, and interpret any scientific advancement as a threat to the security of the regime that occupies Jerusalem.

    Do you see how they treat our nation that, relying on the creativity of its own scientists, has been able to achieve access to nuclear technology? Whereas today, nuclear technology is one of the primary foundations for progress and serving the people; and in the not too distant future, nations lacking this technology will have no choice but to resort to it in order to provide their energy needs, as well as to use nuclear technology in scientific, technical, and manufacturing fields. […]

    The Holocaust in Palestine has persisted for more than sixty years. […]

    The question of Palestine is not solely a question for the Islamic world, but rather today’s issue for humanity. The tragedy of the occupation in Palestine and daily atrocities have harmed the dignity and honour of humanity. […]

    Oppression and aggression are not compatible with belief in God, human dignity and justice. The Zionist regime is a clear example of oppression, and its fundamental nature represents an actual and permanent threat. Its establishment was for this very purpose, namely to put in place a permanent threat in the region. Therefore, its continued existence is a continuation of threat and oppression, and it would not exist without threat and aggression, and is not inherently able to survive in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility. Such a regime, even if it remains established in one square meter of the land of Palestine, will continue to be a threat.

    Take a good look at the bullying powers of the world. When it comes to supporting the Zionist regime, they recognize no red line and boundaries for justice, human rights and human dignity. The usurper Zionist regime is the point of convergence of all of the corruption and injustices of the corrupt and bullying powers. […]

    Open the doors to the prison of occupied Palestine, and allow the immigrants to return to their original homes, and summon the usurpers of the land of Palestine as well. Of course, if you still consider yourself indebted to them, then find a proper place for them in your own territories; otherwise, call upon them to return to their countries of origin to live like their forefathers.

    Today we are all accountable in facing the question of Palestine. The enemies of humanity are struggling to preserve this nest of intrigue. They are using the resources and wealth of their own people to keep such a regime in power, at the expense of the poverty and destitution of their own nations. […]

    The question of Palestine is the present and lasting concern of not only Muslims, but the entire humanity.

    Palestine is the point of convergence and differentiation of right and wrong. The freedom of Palestine is the present aspiration of humanity. We must believe that good will prevail and evil will depart. We must believe that Palestine will soon be free.

    — From Speech at Al-Qods [Jerusalem] International Conference, Tehran, April 14, 2006

  • Arch Conservative

    Zionist this Zionist that…….

    Blah blah blah

    Capitalist pigdog infadel………

    Blak Blah Blah……………

    Palestian apartheid…….

  • MBD

    Wake up and read some history, if you can.

  • Clavos

    MBD:

    Not according to what Ahmadinejad said according to this web site which was referenced earlier.

    The web site you’re citing is a blog, for cryin’ out loud. Blogs are not authoritative sites; they can and do, post anything they want.

    Your citation proves nothing.

    I’m not saying your assertion is wrong, but if you want to establish its veracity, you need to cite a source with real credibility.

  • MBD

    Before I look for another another source, what source do believe has the real quote?

  • Arch Conservative

    CNN has the quote. If you google “ahmadinejad wipe israel” it will be the fourth result. It’s from CNN dated 10/27/06.

  • Clavos

    Here’s the link for the CNN article Arch mentions.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Chris Rose has been bruting about a comment I made on 3 August 2006, after reporting on an Arutz Sheva story that Olmert had declared that the recent Lebanon war would not set back his plans to abandon Judea and Samaria. In other words, all the sacrifices made by religious Jews fighting the Arab enemy in the north would be in vain.

    The secular elites who run Israel are enough to give any believing Jew a heart attack with their treason. So I was extremely upset with reading this news item.

    My throwaway line at the end of the post was something like, “let the enemy nuke Tel Aviv. The secular bastards can learn the hard way.”

    That statement was wrong. It violates the Torah in a big way. To call for the death of a fellow Child of Israel violates the Torah. I’ve said this elsewhere as well.

    HOWEVER, one of Olmert’s plans is to bring in NATO or the EU as an invitee to do the dirty work he knows the IDF cannot really accomplish. I have NO compunction whatever against shooting an Englishman, German, or Italian, or Frenchman or even an American, in an attempt to attempt to defend my home against its illegal destruction at the hands of the traitors in Jerusalem, and those who pull their strings.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Marthe, deferring to answer me dierctly, writes,

    “However, I stand 100% by my previous post. Israel should not be allowed to continue as a nation, as its internal and external policies promote genocide and its abuses of human rights are both terribly extensive and well-documented. The resolutions that the UN General Assembly has passed against it are numerous and they are substantial. The only reason that Israel has not been sanctioned is because the US routinely vetoes sanctions against it in the Security Council.

    Just as we, as a species, have pretty much worn out our welcome on the planet, Israel has more than worn out its welcome in the community of nations.

    For an article dealing with the non-proportionality of the MSM attention to the “poor Palestinians” as opposed to the many millions of the word who really suffer under the spiked heeled boot of vicious oppression, one should go to the sister site of Blog Critics Magazine, Desicritics, for this extremely interesting article.

    There the author posits logic against the coverage of events here, and finds a problem, to put it mildly.

    There is another way to put it all. This is found in the Tana”kh in our various prophetic books.

    Perhaps it is the “community of nations” that has worn out its welcome on G-d’s earth, and it is time for them to be erased in a Redemptive judgment of Man.

    If you honestly believe in the Bible, you should be shitting bricks right now. Because that is exactly what is being warned of.

    If you do not believe in the Bible, specifically the prophetic books of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Zechariah, to mention a few, and the events warned therein come to pass, you’re up shit’s creek without a paddle. Have fun rowing with your fingers!

  • Liam Bailey

    Ruvy,

    Can you tell me:

    Is there any link between the Israeli government and Aish.com?

  • Liam Bailey

    Thank you Scott,

    Now, the people advocating CNN as an authoratative source of Ahmadinejad saying Israel should be wiped off the map.

    When it comes to the U.S and Israel’s shared strategic interests, like building a case for stopping Iran at all costs, as building a case for the Iraq war, CNN are less authoratative than a blog per se. CNN, like Fox News is little more than the U.S and Israel’s propaganda machine. You can find a debate about Ahmadinejad’s wiping off the map quote on alternative media site Antiwar. I’m not searching for the link I’m busy writing my next article and doing the submission rounds with my last but it’s there. I’ve read it.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Liam asks,

    “Is there any link between the Israeli government and Aish.com?

    Nope! Aish haTorah is a yeshiva in the Old City of Jerusalem and only has such contacts with the thieves in the government that they cannot avoid, like most of us here.

  • Arch Conservative

    Why are people going to such great lengths to deny what Ahmadinejad said about Israel?

    Valentine’s Day is tomorrow, I wonder who moonbat and Liam will ask to be their valentine? Hammas? Hezbollah? Al queda?

  • Clavos

    Liam #49:

    OK, here are some more sources:

    The Telegraph, UK

    International Herald Tribune

    Aljazeera

    Only three links can be posted per comment, but there are MANY more available…

  • MAOZ

    Wow.

    #24, quote, “Israel should not be allowed to continue as a nation….” unquote.

    Wow.

    Quote: “A Song, a Psalm of Asaf: G^d, do not hold Yourself silent, be not deaf, and be not still, G^d. For behold, Your foes are in an uproar, and those who hate You have raised their head. Against your nation they plot deviously, they take counsel against those sheltered by You. They said, ‘Come, let us cut them off from nationhood, so Israel’s name will be remembered no more.’ …” Unquote. (Psalm 83)

  • Arch Conservative

    According to Liam Fox News and CNN are nothing but proganda machines for the USA and Isreal but a far left antiwar website is a completely objective and rational source of inromation.

    Liam….do me a favor pal….no more bong hits 4 hours prior to posting OK?

  • moonraven

    Ruvy,

    When I mentioned that we as a species had worn out our welcome, I believe that would logically include the “community of nations”. I would, however, like to see a last gasp of justice in the form of the de-countrification of Israel.

    As for whether or not the President of Iran said that Israel should be “wiped off the map” or “erased from the community of nations”, I doubt seriously that CNN has a) a gaggle of Farsi(Persa) speaking translators and b) the least inclination to present Iran’s president as anything other than an Iranian Hitler.

    I do not speak Farsi, either. However, 6 weeks ago (considerably after the speech in question) I returned from living for several months, again, in Bahrain–where there are many Iranians given that Iran is right on the other side of the Gulf. Many of those Iranians are very anti-Israel. Whereas they indicated that in his shoes they would have said the first version, Wipe Israel–but that he had actually said the second version–Erase Israel from the community of nations.

    It doesn’t matter, really, as Israel has made plenty of threats against Iran that were not open to such hair-splitting translation issues.

    The BBC did cover his suggestion about putting Israel in Europe:

    “Iran’s conservative president has said that Israel should be moved to Europe.
    “If European countries claim that they have killed Jews in World War II… why don’t they provide the Zionist regime with a piece of Europe,” Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told Iranian television.

    “Germany and Austria can provide the… regime with two or three provinces for this regime to establish itself, and the issue will be resolved.”

    Not as good as putting it in Yrkshire, but a pretty good idea about the Wages of Guilt–and some of us do appreciate the black humor….

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Marthe,

    MAOZ has characterized your words with stunning accuracy.

    Let’s look at his quote from Psalm 83 again.

    “A Song, a Psalm of Asaf: G^d, do not hold Yourself silent, be not deaf, and be not still, G^d. For behold, Your foes are in an uproar, and those who hate You have raised their head. Against your nation they plot deviously, they take counsel against those sheltered by You. They said, ‘Come, let us cut them off from nationhood, so Israel’s name will be remembered no more.’ …”

    Arabs know King David as el Khalif Daoud el Nebi – a prophet. And now let’s look at David’s request, further on down in the Psalm,

    “O my G-d, make them like whirling chaff, like stubble before the wind; like a fire burning the forest, like a flame that sets mountains ablaze. So pursue them with Your tempest and terrify them with Your storm. Fill their faces with shame, then they will seek Your Name, Hashem. Let them be shamed and terrified forever, then they will be disgraced and they will perish. Then they will know that You – whose Name is Hashem – are alone, Most High over all the earth.”
    [Psalm 83, Book of Tehillim]

    Amen.

  • Liam Bailey

    If you bothered to do a little research you would know that Antiwar is run by the Carnegie Endownment for Peace. A well respected research group. Being against war, especially like the Iraq war which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of dead and displaced civilians and for what. Name one good thing the Iraq war has achieved apart from the removal of Saddam Hussein. Since people are saying conditions are worse than under Saddam that achievment has been well and truly cancelled out by the vaccuum of violence, destruction and misery Iraq has become. Make no mistake if Bush takes us to war with Iran it will be a catastrophic chain reaction of unintended consequences and I don’t know where it will end. I’ll say it again, being against the Bush Administration war machine rollercoaster is a wholy sensible position to take with the array of WMD’s the U.S and its right arm of Israel have at their disposal.

    Fox News, CNN, and the Times and many other mianstream papers and TV news stations are a product of capitalism seeking to control the government, firstly through the media, and shielding bad press from its investments and in some cases even tarnishing the opposition. With this media control at such levels globally the rising number of Alternative news sites is quickly becoming the best way to find valid information. FYI Antiwar publishes links, submitted by the user from most Mainstreamn media sites. To give a b alanced and fair output.

  • moonraven

    Ruvy,

    Unfortunately, it just shows how long folks have held an image of you as troublemakers, big time.

    If that image bothers you, changing it wouldn’t be such a bad idea.

    There are limits to what the market will bear.

    I, for example, am a troublemaker–but very “little time”–so far I have only protested against genocide; I have not committed it.

  • mary r

    CNN does have a Farsi speaking journalist, ever heard of Christiane Amapour, Persian. I also know some Persian jews so I can tell you first hand he did indeed threated to wipe Isreal off the map. I do question your bias as writer since you work for Palistinians, how could you not help but spread their propaganda. I’m sorry for you Iran isnt just a threat to Isreal its a threat to the world including the Iranian people, I’m just not sure what motivates you in twisting the truth.

  • http://warpages-leejay.blogspot.com Liam Bailey

    Ahmadinejad is not the main man in IRan, so whether or not he said that is irrel;evant, he is no where near having the means to achieve it. Even if Iran do get the bomb, if they launch so much as one missile in the direction of Israel between Israel and the U.S. Iran would certainly be wiped off the map. Do you honestly think patriotic Ahmadinejad and Khomeini would risk that? Come on.

    And who are you to say I work for the Arabs and am spreading their propaganda, all you are doing is regurgitating the lies.