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Injustice Sinks to New Low: Saudi Rape Victim Sentenced to 200 Lashes and 6 Months Jail

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You know, I'd like to find it in me somewhere to repeat the politically correct refrains about our Muslim friends, but the "Religion of Peace" is at it again.

A gang rape victim from Saudi Arabia is facing six months in jail and 200 lashes for appealing her initial sentence of 90 lashes. Read that last sentence again. I had to when I read the BBC story about this case. A woman who was gang raped 14 times is facing six months in jail and 200 lashes because "justice" officials in Saudi Arabia feel the victim tried influencing the judicial process in the media.

The victim of this hideous crime was sentenced to the first 90 lashes for breaking Saudi Arabia's segregation of the sexes law. At the time of attack she was in a car with a man she is not related to and was then subjected to the most brutal experience imaginable. Instead of getting justice, sympathy, and support she faces a flogging.

"My client is the victim of this abhorrent crime. I believe her sentence contravenes the Islamic Sharia law and violates the pertinent international conventions," said the victim's lawyer, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem.

That's where the religious angle comes in. Saudi Arabia supposedly runs its nation in accordance with Islamic law.

You know what? I'm ready to be a politically incorrect elitist here! We're being told by talking heads and demagogues that all cultures and religions are equally good and valid and have their own truths and values. That's wrong. It's wrong! I'm not willing to concede that. I recognize the world is a complicated place and what I don't understand about it could fill every library in every country of the world. I don't claim to have any particular expertise in diplomacy, law, religion, or politics. The good news is you don't need that kind of expertise to see how wrong this is. There are occasions where there is right and wrong, good and evil, and there is no in between. The Saudi judicial system and the human debris that perpetrated the vile attack on this woman are wrong and evil. Any religion or culture that condones this belongs on the scrapheap. You cannot think this is okay and be a good person; there is no gray area. It's a good thing I'm not president of the United States. I do believe I'd launch a nuclear attack over something like this!

Are you ready for the punchline? Seven men were convicted of raping this woman and are serving prison sentences ranging from one to five years. I oppose the death penalty, but it's cases like this that tempt me to re-think my position. Okay, I don't want these thugs executed, but I'm thinking we can find something appropriate somewhere between the gallows and what they got. The law this woman is convicted of breaking is absurd. The initial punishment is beyond cruel. The increased punishment takes barbarism to an entirely new level.

I've gone through my thesaurus looking for words to properly convey the revulsion and anger this story has stirred in me. I've run out of words.

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About Josh Hathaway

  • Savitha

    I completely agree with everything you have written about this case .
    When I watched the news flash on a channel last night I thought it was a typing error on part of the channel . I thought it was the sentence for the rapists and it was too less for the inhuman crime perpetrated.
    It’s a cruel and barbaric sentence on the woman. In comparision now the judge seems worse than the rapists.

  • malkbean

    This is what conservatives have been trying to tell liberals. What is beyond believe is that it is taking so long for liberals to recognize the evil and the threat of their intention to impose such madness on the world. This insanity must be fought in every corner of the planet. Any religion or culture that requires total, thoughtless and unquestioning submission is doomed to plunge to these depths.

  • emma wood

    Is this abhorrent? Of course it is. Is Saudi Arabian Sharia Law abhorrent? Of course it is. But it seems unfair to blame all Muslims for this – it’s a bit like blaming all Christians for the right wing nuts who bomb abortion clinics or the Westboro Baptist church. I am totally opposed to ANY fundamentalist religion because they are all anti woman and indeed anti human. But I do know many muslims who wouldn’t condone this kind of thing, so let’s not throw the baby out with bath water and give an excuse to racists for their behaviour. Fundamentalist Islam = Bad. Moderate Islam = people exercising their religious beliefs which they have a right to do – even if I don’t agree with them which I don’t

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    This has nothing to do with conservatives and liberals. Don’t make it something it’s not. I’m as liberal as they come, but I have long been aware of how hideous these laws and traditions are. They are not only found in the Islamic tradition, but similar horrific treatment of women exists with Hindus and Sikhs among others.

    My understanding and revulsion are no less owing to my political leanings. All things considered, this woman’s proposed punishment may well be tantamount to a death sentence. I don’t know what the nature of the “lashes” will be, but few people would survive 200 of them.

    I am at a total loss as to how Muslims can, in this day and age, rationalize such traditions. Is there anywhere in the Koran admonishing people to “judge not, lest ye be judged?” I’m not a Christian, and I have a number of issues with all religions, but those that maintain such cruel medieval customs are beyond understanding.

    Josh – a nuclear (or nucular if you’re a republican) attack might be a bit over the top. But it is nevertheless sad that our government is pretty much in bed with the Saudis who are at the forefront in maintaining the hideous Sharia law.

    B-tone

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Emma,

    The main difference though, between abortion clinc bombers and radical muslims is that the latter run entire countries and enforce sharia law on their entire population. I know a few muslims myself, and, as far as I know, they are not supportive of the draconian sharia laws. Nevertheless, the radical movement amongst muslims is strong and growing. All muslims must accept some responsibility for the path down which their religion is being taken.

    B-tone

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/diana_hartman Diana Hartman

    the entirety of those who subscribe to religion are to blame for this and for any crime and/or punishment that stems from religious law or belief because the world tolerates religion and what it does…

    the same people who punished the rapists (and the raped) can’t explain why rapists even exist or why the idea of rape occurs to a person (nor can any religion in the world explain this) without skirting the issue of their god being a major dick…

    this is not about tolerating muslim law or religion…this is about tolerating religion at all, and specifically the ego-maniacal dickheads that perpetrate the “culture” and “beliefs” of their dickheaded gods…

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Come on Diana, say what you really think.

    Diana, I must say, I agree with you 100%. Religion may not be the root of all evil (my apologies to money,) but it must take the heat for a great deal of humanity’s pain and suffering. We both seem to consider god, any god, to be worthy of our nether regions – I stated that god is an asshole in a comment on another thread a few weeks ago. Perhaps that is the flip side of the same coin, as it were. Some were aghast that I would say such a thing, but that’s how I felt at the time. It still works for me.

    Of course, I don’t believe god is an asshole, largely because I don’t believe god is.
    I’ve been asked why I’m angry at god. I reply that I’m not. I simply don’t believe in god. Any anger I have is aimed at the charleton purveyors of religious crap who are in it either for profit and/or as an ego trip. Oh, to live in a rational world. As I am verging on “old fartdom” I will likely never see that day. Someday maybe – at least if the godsters don’t blow us all to bits in their zeal to gain “paradise points” with their respective lords.

    B-tone

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    This is what conservatives have been trying to tell liberals. What is beyond believe is that it is taking so long for liberals to recognize the evil and the threat of their intention to impose such madness on the world.

    You’re right to call this nonsense out, Baritone. But I do have to wonder… In my recollection of the West’s dealings with Saudi Arabia over the last twenty years or so, is it the conservatives or the liberals who’ve been more sympathetic to that regime?

    Thought so.

    I’m not given to personal attacks on this site, but in regard to Mr Malkbean there, I’m tempted to say: what a piece of #@$%.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    The main difference though, between abortion clinc bombers and radical muslims is that the latter run entire countries and enforce sharia law on their entire population.

    That’s merely the difference between having political power and not having political power. The abortion clinic bombers would LIKE to have the political power to impose their version of Sharia law if given half a chance.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    “Okay, I don’t want these thugs executed, but I’m thinking we can find something appropriate somewhere between the gallows and what they got.”

    I’m thinking surgical removal of their genitalia (without anesthesia, of course) would be very appropriate.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Wonder how they would taste with some fava beans and a nice Chianti?

    f-f-f-f-f-f-f-……!

  • Clavos

    Eeewwww!!

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Dave,

    True, but it is that difference, and a large one it is, which makes the radical muslims a much greater force with which to contend than any abortion clinic bombers. As I have repeatedly noted, I am very wary of christian fundamentalists and their efforts toward an American theocracy. The abortion clinic bombers and the like are to some degree a product of that mindset.

    But again, it is as if the abortion clinic bombers had been given carte blanche in Saudi Arabia and a # of other predominantly muslim countries, or I should say countries where the government and islam are essentially indistinguishable.

    Can you imagine what would happen to a group of women in SA if they attacked a man in similar fashion? They likely would be stoned to near death, and then beheaded – probably at a local soccer stadium filled to capacity and on live TV for all to see with vendors hawking falafel in the stands. (Often made with fava beans, by the way.)

    B-tone

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    It shold also be noted that the Bush family, among many other former and current members of the present administration have had significant business dealings – essentially partnerships – with the ruling Saudi family. Could that be a conflict of interest?

    B-tone

  • Gabacho

    The monsters who are perpetrating this horrible inhuman act of cruelty are of the same ilk as the nazi death camp guards were. They must be stopped!!! This cannot be allowed to happen!! I am willing to do my part up to the point of personally invading Saudi Arabia to stop it! And this country is an ALLY of the U.S. (supposedly the benevolent big brother/policeman of the world)???????? What was all that rot about how Iraq was invaded to remove a brutal dictator. Almost any other brutality pales in comparison to this monstrosity.

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Keep in mind that sharia law is nothing new. It is nearly as old as islam itself. SA is not alone in its adherence to these laws and traditions. Also, as I said above hindus, sikhs and others are very poor, some as bad or worse in their treatment of women. Should we invade all these places? This is something that invasions and war will not solve. How many of the women who would be the object of salvation would perish in the ensuing battles? How many of their families – their children, and yes, their abusive husbands would be decimated?

    As tragic as the particular situation described above in SA is, such cultural change cannot be ramrodded down these people’s throats. Sadly, tragically, this isn’t going to go away anytime soon.

    B-tone

  • A. Hathaway

    This punishment is a death sentence. Medically speaking, most individuals cannot survive past 40 lashes regardless of the instrument used. Internal injuries, as well as external bleeding will end her life before the 200th lash is administered. Six months in jail won’t matter if they administer the lashes first. It wouldn’t surprise me if the barbaric members who decided, participate, or support this punishment would continue to flog a dead body. Even if they are our Muslim brothers and sisters, you can still be disgusted with family.

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    One thing that makes all this even more difficult to absorb for me at least, is that this is simply business as usual. This is not an isolated case. These decisions are made dispassionately and routinely. The jurists in fact likely will NOT take part in administering the punishment. It’s just another day at the office for them.

    Consider what day to day life is like for many women existing in the grip of these cultures. Certainly, most do not wind up being jailed or flogged. But more often than not total submission to men is demanded in most households. As these are age old traditions, most women don’t question it. It’s just the way things are and have been. There has been some enlightenment in recent years and there are most certainly a few rebels, but they rebel at great risk.

    B-tone

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    Good piece, Josh. Glad to see some light be shown on this ugliness. Too bad malkbean had to spill his ignorance on the thread, but that’s what makes America great, right?

    It’s the liberals who have been fighting for equal rights for women, and along with the libertarians who have been fighting to separate church and state. The traditional conservatives didn’t appear to care about Islam until after 9/11.

    It would be nice if this country actually believed in human rights for all, but our actions speak louder than our words, and then we wonder why so many hate this country.

  • moonraven

    The US government supports the Saudis–and that is what allows them to boldly commit these injustices.

    The US receives in exchange: Cheaper oil for YOUR cars and a promise from Abdullah NOT to allow OPEC to switch to invoicing in Euros.

    YOUR dollar hovers just above being flushed thanks to YOUR supporting these kinds of acts.

    Look in the mirror, gringo hypocrits.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    The alliance between the US and the Saudis is one of convenience, not mutual respect, and it is often fraught with tension – usually not publicized. But the State Dept did criticize this court ruling openly on Monday, prompting Saudi justice officials to defend the decision as proper – and to blame the defense lawyer for illegally publicizing the case.

    The relationship between the Saudi government and the Wahhabist religious leaders is also complicated. Each group is beholden to the other to obtain and hold on to their power. That doesn’t mean that they love each other or that they are one and the same group. Human Rights Watch has called on King Abdullah to pardon the woman, but that would cause an uproar among the religious officials.

  • moonraven

    The only reason it is “fraught” with tension is the rule to defend one’s Muslim brother above all else.

    I spend enough time as a consultant in the Middle East to know of what I speak.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    The only villainy that matters to me in this situation is the rape of this woman and the cultural/religious/legal system that says it’s okay to beat a woman 200 times and imprison her after she’s been gangraped.

    Obviously there are a lot of subplots that run through this but I couldn’t care less about Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, abortionists, Christians, Jews, Hindus, or any of the like.

    This woman is being punished after being raped and in a sense is being punished for being raped. All the other rhetoric rings really hollow after that horrid fact is digested.

  • Martin Lav

    None of our business I say. Let the Saudi’s follow whatever law they see fit.

    I mean we don’t meddle with Mexico even when they harbor cop killers in their own country.

  • moonraven

    I am afraid I have to actually agree with Martin on this one.

    Josh, you get all hot and bothered about this case without even batting one of your baby blue eyes about all the rapes and murders that YOUR army and mercenaries have committed in Iraq–and are still committing daily.

    I say you are a hypocrit.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    Moonraven, I’ll ignore you calling me a name for the moment and deal with the attempt at substance in your post.

    This article is about this story. That I don’t reference rape in its many forms and by its many perpetrators doesn’t mean I support some kinds of rape and not others.

    You didn’t bat one eye about the kittens that are tortured in some corners of the world in any of your comments. I don’t automatically assume you hate kittens.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    You should be wearing sackcloth and setting yourself on fire with lighter fluid in a public square.

    You first. Can I get a demonstration?

    You support your country’s government, therefore you support terror in all of its forms all around this planet

    Once again, you assume facts not in evidence with a statement that is shockingly bereft of logic or sense.

  • moonraven

    You have not shown anything to disprove what I said about you. Nothing.

    I don’t think setting myself on fire in the little plaza of my village in Mexico would exactly make the point about US terrorism.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    That’s one part of the point. We’re not supposed to be discussing me or calling me names but focusing on the issue. I’m irrelevant to all of this.

    It’s not my burden of proof, either. You have assumed my support for things without the benefit of any shred of evidence to support it. Support your baseless accusations. I don’t have to disprove what you’ve failed miserably to prove in the first place.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    The ad hominem statements continue. Well done. Once again, rather than discussing the issue you make feeble attempts to impugn me.

    I mean what I said by sinking to a new low. That you couldn’t follow it doesn’t make me the ass. This sentence is vile and despicable. It sets a new low mark. It is a perfectly acceptable phrase.

  • moonraven

    No, it isn’t.

    I have already indicated the phrases which would be acceptable usage. Neither you nor Nalle writes acceptable English.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    And reading your foolish defense of your misusage of English is just irritating. Also, your piece is not NEWS, it is OPINION. Your job, as writer of an OPINION piece, is to convince folks that you have a legitimate beef. Clearly, you failed at your job.

    All you did is shoot off your mouth–in typical Ugly American fashion–about something that happened in another country which you know nothing about.

    As for supporting my accusations, here are two pieces of support:

    1. I have never seen a pic of you protesting US atrocities in other countries, nor your name on the list of any protestors

    2. You have not protested those atrocities on this site or any other site.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    Josh, having a conversation with Moonraven is like Brer Rabbit fighting the tar baby.

  • moonraven

    There are several tar babies on this site, but I am not one of them.

    I am clearly Brer Rabbit–or the Roadrunner to you dimwit Wile E. Coyotes with Acme Products tattooed across your keyboards.

    Chuck Jones–who created Wyle E.–said Wile E. was the perfect example of a fanatic: someone who redoubles his efforts when he’s forgotten his aim.

    I believe Chuck (RIP) was correct.

  • brian

    That will teach them for being a victim!
    incidentally, the same happens to muslims. Take the case of the palestinians, who suffer at the hands of israel..just because they are victims.

  • moonraven

    Yes, brian: But you have to respect the enormous limitations of the “skater dude” who wrote this piece in regard to geopolitics.

    Best that we just bury this crap and move on to other threads–or other lives.

  • A. Hathaway

    Moonraven,

    “Gringo Hypocrit” – nice
    What would you call his wife? I’ve met her and she is a lot like him.

    I would appreciate any advice you could give me. This piece, along with its comments, will make a great story! Keep up the good work!

  • moonraven

    The feminine form of gringo is gringA.

    Works for me.

    Advice about what?

    How to use the English language when writing for publication?

    Or about how to beat the system when you are young, female and Saudi? (Hint: the Seef Mall as at the other end of the Bahraini Causeway.)

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    “You have not shown anything to disprove what I said about you.”

    God that’s funny.

  • DavibByron

    There were two rape victims.

    The man she was with was also attacked kidnapped and raped by the gang. He was also convicted under the same law which says he can’t be with an unrelated woman, His punishment was identical to hers.

    In short the only sexism in this case comes from the critics and media coverage of the Saudis. They have colluded to airbrush out the male rape victim so as to fabricate a case of sexism against Saudi Arabia. The result will likely be to deny justice to the second rape victim in the rush to protect the first.

  • moonraven

    There’s always something like this at the bottom of something that is whipped up by ignorant and cynical media so that they can look like they are real, ethical, caring human beings while they gouge out somebody else’s eyes.

    Thanks for the information.

    You have been the only poster on this site besides myself to post any information in months.

    Everybody else is just a gratuitous giver of Fox News’ opinions–as if nobody in the US had a tv.

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    If Moon ran the world – which she doubtless believes she’s worthy of – we would all be dead. She would be left alone feeling smug and superior while standing in her own offal while believing the smell is wafting from the rotting dead.

    B-tone

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    In short the only sexism in this case comes from the critics and media coverage of the Saudis. They have colluded to airbrush out the male rape victim so as to fabricate a case of sexism against Saudi Arabia. The result will likely be to deny justice to the second rape victim in the rush to protect the first.

    You’ve got a point, however the larger point remains. Why are EITHER of the rape VICTIMS being punished at all?

    Dave

  • http://rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Dave is quite right. Also, this is not an isolated incident, and in the great majority of such occurences it is the women who carry the brunt of injustice.

    I know some will look upon our revulsion as a cultural bias, or cultural ignorance as Moon apparently contends. That argument is bullshit.

    What we are looking at is a culture that has not made significant progress in more than a thousand years. They have refused to grow and accept change. It is a glaring example of religion digging in its heals, much as the catholic church did for nearly a thousand years after the fall of Rome, placing itself and its interests between the people and enlightenment. It is ugly and stupid. Their stolid adherence to ancient dogma can only lead to much greater destruction, suffering and death. All for the idiot notion and fear of an imaginary vengeful god.

    B-tone

  • A. Hathaway

    Moonraven,

    Did you notice any similarities between the author’s last name and mine?

    Sorry. Couldn’t resist. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    Cheers!

  • Moonraven

    Yes, I did.

    Which is why I gave you the response I gave you.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • Moonraven

    My best advice: Get a job.

  • A.Hathaway

    Moonraven,

    I would suggest you do the same.

  • troll

    roadrunner fer sure

  • moonraven

    Gringa,

    I do consulting for universities in Latin America and the Middle East and give presentations about Latin American issues in Latin America, the US and the Middle East.

    I also have a theater group here in Mexic, and provide voluntary technical assistance to a livestock association I helped found.

    Oh–and I am semi-retired.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    as if nobody in the US had a tv.

    Because we all know TV is where the truth can be found.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    If I get there ahead of you, I’ll put in a good word for you with management now that you’re semi-retired. I think I speak for a wide group of people when I say we’d love it if you had something to occupy the time you spend slinging ad hominem attacks, crashing non sequitirs, and other inane babblings.

  • moonraven

    I don’t give a fuck if you speak for thousands–or even millions–of gringo skater dudes.

    Your opinion matters not a whit to me.

    Silly teenagers living at home sponging off parents give me a pain.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    Just remember to smile when you ask the customers if they want fries with that, okay?

    Seeing how my opinion doesn’t count — nor does anyone else’s, or so it seems — it probably doesn’t matter that I’m not a teenager, I don’t live at home, and I don’t sponge off my parents but there it is.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    Oh, and I’ve never skated.

  • moonraven

    No, it DOESN’T matter.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    Well, you’re the one who brought it up. Oh, well.

    You just continue with your imaginary lectures on foreign policy. You’re doing a bang-up job on the Middle East. I don’t know where we’d be without you.

  • Franco

    trollster, lock and load.

  • Franco

    #64 — A.Hathaway

    It has been my experience that those who flaunt what they are never really have it in the first place.

    Spoken for Turth!

  • moonraven

    And, no doubt, Turth–whoever he is, was really interested in the experience of a 17-year-old.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    Nice to see you’re a person of your word.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Update on the story [as opposed to the rather dull Josh vs Moon ‘debate’]:

    Public pressure may possibly have accomplished something–this is from the wire services today.

    Saudi Arabia’s foreign minister said the kingdom’s judiciary was reviewing a sentence of six months in jail and 200 lashes handed down to a gang rape victim, official media said on Tuesday.

    “There is currently a review process being carried out into the ruling by the judicial system,” the SPA news agency quoted Prince Saud al-Faisal as telling reporters from the US-hosted Middle East peace conference.

    The sentence against the 19-year-old girl in the ultra-conservative Muslim state has attracted widespread international condemnation, including from human rights groups and the White House.

  • http://www.confessionsofafanboy.com Josh

    Thanks for the update, Handyguy. I’ll look into this myself.

  • A.Hathaway

    handyguy,

    Thanks for the update. I suppose it would have been just as helpful without slinging the shit at other people on the way in.

  • A.Hathaway

    Moon,

    What is it with you thinking we are teenagers? No one has given you any LEGITIMATE reason to think that. It undermines you when you make so many baseless assumptions. It truly doesn’t make any sense.

    For someone who claims to speak the truth, you say whatever you want with no regard for the facts. Why don’t we try talking constructively? This tautology has spiraled into a new dimension of ridiculous. We should create a new article specifically about “The battle of the commentators” and then this thread would make more sense.

    Seriously. Why are you so angry?

  • Luigi

    No it is not religion, political parties, even gender. The basic problem is the lust for power. The many over the few. The strong over the weak. The only animal over the earth that has become the master of this characteristic is the likes of you and me. When frustration reigns injustice rules and the inocent suffer. Be good not bad, help your neighbor not just your friends, support the less fortunate do not be indiferent, feed the hungry and heal the sick. Love, real love is what matters.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com/ handyguy

    To A Hathaway:
    If I am reading you correctly, and you are accusing me of ‘slinging shit,’ chill out. You can’t post the kind of comments you’ve been posting and be that silly-oversensitive too. Josh’s, yours, and Moonraven’s multiple and repetitive comments [the most recent ones, I mean], only a few of which are related to the article, are dull. And pointless.

  • A.Hathaway

    Handyguy,

    If we are boring you, feel free to move along. You’ve now become part of the club with your jab at the 3 of us.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com/ handyguy

    …yawn…

  • Moonraven

    I assume when someone acts VERY IMAATURELY, yet has a computer and feels comfortable posting on sites normally frequented by adults, that the person is a teenager.

    Adolescent behavior normally indicates that one is a teenager.

    If it walks like a duck, etc.

    But if it’s a gringa or gringo, perhaps all bets are off–as you folks are dedicated to the proposition of never growing up.

  • A. Hathaway

    So, I suppose name calling is mature behavior then?

  • moonraven

    Have the last word, there, gringos. It’s YOUR thread, after all.

    Everything I do is perfect. Just like Nalle.

  • Clavos

    “…you folks are dedicated to the proposition of never growing up.”

    Laissez les bons temps rouler!!

  • moonraven

    Right.

    Only you ain’t got nothin’ to roll with and nobody to roll….

    Fantasies, and 5 bucks….coffee of your choice.

  • Clavos

    Your double negative is correct, mr.

  • moonraven

    Anything I do or say is correct. Always.

  • Clavos

    Sometimes, mr, you are as dumb as a box of rocks…

  • Clavos

    You’ve been raiding the campesinos’ pulque too much today, mr, you’re descending into babble.

    Interesting that a “longstanding professional journalist/professor/intellectual” wouldn’t know what a double negative is.

  • Trevor Loughlin

    Even when Saudi oil runs out the land mass has enormous energy potential in the form of solar Stirling electricity. When American laws related to the exploitation of women and children are almost as insane as sharia law (married sixteen year olds classed as child pornographers for photographing themselves nude) why can’t the U.S. administration understand that they are supporting an entire NATION of SERIOUS SADISTIC SEX OFFENDERS in the form of Saudi Arabia. The ONLY option is to re-mandate this so-called nation (actually a very large inbred family) using its massive resources to compensate victims of it’s internal and exported sexual terrorism.

  • yasmin habeeba

    hm ,yeah it’s very easy to blame religion for what a people do ! good excuse though! right! unfortunatelly people always excuse themself with something else for their own crimes! i don’t personally trust the media ! when they blames afgani people for many things it wasn’t all true and the world finally discovered it afterwards ! in iraq arab people were blamed or “muslim” poeple for the act of only 2 persons and all village died ! if vchristians are so good why there is soldiers killng around in iraq! very good people!muslim people are the bad for beliving in some ideals! alhamdo lilah! i’m proud of my religion!and i’m sorry that saudi is sadistic nations when i saw 14 years old girls in america having children already and from different fathers! lol they must be saints! ! bravo for american people! very good!

  • bliffle

    Of course one can blame the muslim religionists in Saudi Arabia for injustices such as what befell this rape victim!

    The muslim religionists SOUGHT power in the civil government.

    The muslim religionists GAINED power in the civil government.

    The muslim religionists EXERCISE power in the civil government.

    The muslim religionists have NEVER fought against this injustice.

    They cannot now say that they had no power in this injustice and it’s not their responsibility.

    And to the extent that other muslims deny religious involvement in this injustice they voluntarily share the blame for it.

    NB: I thought Baritone was more literate than demonstrated in comment #7 where he implicitly repeats a common misconception that “money is the root of all evil”. Wrong. The correct aphorism is “the love of money is the root of all evil”. One is well advised to consider the difference.

  • yasmin_habeeba86

    aham ! i see ! so religions are guilty for what people do? and actually i don’t belive newspapers ! personally thinking this is brain wash! an intellegent person would not follow what other people say and would have his own opinion! but probably this is something hard to understand! there is injustice everywhere in this world! actaully looking at guantanamo bay topics u can see a real injustice over there! u can see people being tortured for no reason and this is fact that everyone knows! so if this woman die audu billah she will be judged by the best judge Allah and if her sins are forgiven she will go to jannah! but in our culture is not appropriate to enter inside car of man who is not related to you! first he might harm you and rape you or kill you! and in saudi women don’t contact men except if it’s related it’s not normal and it’s dangerious and this girl probably knew that and followed her desire for which it had consecuences coz she would not be raped if she wasn;t there that day! now she will live with psicological problems until the end of her life and i only feel sorry for her ,i don’t judge her coz only Allah can judge her!this is so horrible thing ,this guys should really be sentenced death! anyway it’s hard for western people to understand islamic culture but generally the honour of a woman who is doughter sister and mother is very high positioned in our religion and it should be protected! and letting ur doughter wife or sister close to fornication or in arabic zena is wrong thing to do! bcoz it’s dangerious and it happens someone to hurt women all the time everywhere in this world! if women respect themself and their family would stay away from other men except related to them!but this is a protection for the women in islam and not in anyway oppresion ! and most of my girlfriends marry after 25 ! i never known 16 years old womne to get married that early ,i know christian women who did that! so i think everyone is different in this world ! why u judge our culture is bcoz u see it different and that bother u that not everyone is like u!

  • Pablo

    It is so nice to see the USA continuing to support Jeffersonian Democracy in Saudi Arabia. You go Bush!

  • Ruvy

    [Edited]

    Unfortunately, this was not propaganda or lies. A young woman and young man were gang-raped, and for appealing the wrongful sentence of the courts they were both sentenced to six months jail and 200 lashes. The rapists deserved to be castrated – without medicine – and in public, so that all their clans could see what miserable shits they were. That has not happened, so the assholes will eventually rape again.

    Rape in the Arab world is not really a crime – a woman losing honor is for being raped is. Honor killings in Jordan or the Arab controlled parts of Israel happen every day. That’s a fact that you may not want to admit, but a fact that stands as true.

    That is Arab culture for you. I know it’s your life, and you live it, but I wouldn’t be too proud of how Arab culture treats women.

  • GRAM

    SHARIA MEANS DEATH FOR NOT BEING AN EVIL FOOL.

  • GRAM

    IT WOULD BE MORALLY JUSTIFIABLE TO TRACK DOWN IMAMS AND MEMBERS OF THE RELIGIOUS POLICE AND KILL AS MANY OF THEM AS POSSIBLE. THEIR TORTURING WOULD NOT BE JUSTIFIABLE.