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If You’re Proud to be an American, You’ve Got to be a Blithering Idiot

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What has America done in your lifetime that you can actually be proud of?

I was trying to come up with an answer and I thought of two things that happened in my lifetime.

Technologically, America has given the world the personal computer and the Internet, and that is something to be immensely proud of.

Politically, one of our presidents, Jimmy Carter, made peace between Israel and Egypt, and that is something to be proud of too, because that peace still holds.

For the rest, our record is pretty dismal.

After Carter came Reagan, who brought us the Iran-Contra scandal, and spent us into debt. There are some neocon idiots who say Reagan won the Cold War against Russia, but that is total BS, because the Russian Empire crumbled from within without any help from us. Russia lost the Cold War; we didn’t win it.

After Reagan came Bush One, and what did he do for America to be proud of? I can’t think of a single thing, except that he once threw up on a Japanese official in Tokyo.

Then came Clinton, and what did he do? He let the genocide of Rwanda happen. Almost a million Rwandans were cut to pieces by machetes, and the one country and the one president who could’ve stopped the slaughter, America and Clinton, didn’t lift a finger.

Then came the America of Bush Two. Between Enron, Katrina, the Iraq War, Ford Motors losing $35m a day last year while Japanese car companies are building cars profitably on our soil, and the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries by our highly patriotic corporate elite, there is absolutely nothing to be proud of.

And much to be ashamed of. When 9/11 happened, the French said, “we are all Americans now,” and the people of Iran held candle-lit vigils for us. So what did we do with all that goodwill, and that huge moral opportunity? Did we lead the world into a new era of international cooperation and peace? Did we produce leaders like MLK or Mandela or Gandhi to make the world look up to us?

No, we went from being beloved by the world to being the world’s biggest bullies. Terrorists have probably killed no more than 10,000 people in the world in the last decade, while we have caused the death of over 600,000 Iraqis, which include hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children. We’ve become the new terrorists of the world. Those countries with half a brain hate us, and those with a whole brain are scared of us — and both kinds of countries have good reasons for their hate and their fear.

And what of us chumps unfortunate enough to be stuck inside the USA? We’ve got ourselves a government that we can’t trust to do anything right, that hasn’t stopped lying to us from day one, and that keeps a healthcare system going that costs twice as much as any other in the industrialized world and gives us worse care than Cubans or Albanians get from their threadbare, primitive systems.

Wouldn’t it be rather nice to be proud to be an American again? Wouldn’t it, for example, be rather nice to have a president who didn’t get elected because he courted voters who hate gay people? Wouldn’t it be rather nice if we didn’t need the likes of Hugo Chavez to help our poor people in the Bronx keep themselves warm in winter? Wouldn’t it be rather nice to have religious leaders who don’t go on drug binges with hustlers?

Ask yourself: is there anything you can do to make yourself proud of America again?

I know what I’m going to do. I’m going to vote in 2008, and I’m going to make certain I help pick a president who might make me proud of America again. I sure as hell won’t vote for McCain or Giuliani. I don’t think either of them have it in them to make me proud of America. I might vote for Hillary, if she can stop herself from being the most calculating politician since Hitler. Or for Obama — he talks such a lovely game of bringing our country together, even if he doesn’t stand for much else. I’d probably vote for John Edwards, because he sincerely and seriously wants to do something about the many poor people in our midst, which we as the richest country in the world should be totally ashamed of having.

So maybe voting for John Edwards might make me proud of America again. It isn’t much, but it’s a start. Heck, we’ve got to start somewhere. Being proud of your country is the least you can do for it, and the least it can do for you.

But I’m not holding my breath. America and its leaders have been too disappointing lately. Sometimes I wish I were Canadian. Not that they have much to be proud of, but at least they have nothing to be ashamed of. At least they don’t have celebrities who walk around flashing their shaven cooches at the world. At least they don’t live in a permanent cringe, waiting for the next shameful thing their country will get up to, like attacking Iran or spending gazillions on stealth bombers that have no purpose on earth except to take tax money out of my pocket and give it to some rich CEO who already gets more tax breaks than me.

I’d really like for America to be more than the dumb, dangerous joke we’ve become. We’re scraping the barrel here, folks. One of our astronauts just drove halfway across the country in a diaper to pepper-spray someone. When we can’t even be proud of our astronauts, isn’t it time to do something about the state of the one nation on earth that used to be the world’s hope, and is now the world’s despair?

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About Adam Ash

  • Joe

    You could move to Canada, I’d be proud of that. You’re spinning the hell out of US history all for the sake of a GW Bush hit piece. You compare Hillary to Hitler while pondering whether to vote for her? We can’t be proud of our astronauts because of the actions of one of them? Geesh! Get thee gone – Canada awaits you.

  • JustOneMan

    I’d really like for “Adam Ash” to be more than the dumb, dangerous joke that he has become. Blogcritics is scraping the barrel here, folks. One of our presidentral candiates John “You may be injured and not know it” Edards, just drove halfway across the country chasing an ambulance.

    When we can’t even be proud of our Dumbocratic controlled government. Isn’t it time to do something about the state of the one nation on earth that always does the right thing while the rest of the world waits for us to save them and do the necessary dirty work?

    Adam…good job I am glad that you still dont let history and facts get in the way of reality!

    JOM

    (Editor: Thanks in advance for not editing my comments – Adam opened the door…I just went in!)

  • Arch Conservative

    I was initially going to offer a lengthy response but this piece and the man who wrote are such a fucking joke that I won’t waste my time.

    No objectivity whatsoever. Just blind, insistent anti-Americanism.

  • Clavos

    America in my lifetime:

    Along with its allies, won WWII.

    An American, Jonas Salk, rid the world of the scourge of polio.

    Another American (whom I personally know), Dr. Norman Borlaug, showed the world how to quadruple its wheat harvest, and won the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

    An American, James Watson, And an Englishman, Francis Crick, unraveled the secret of DNA (with the help of work from Rosalind Franklin and Maurice Wilkins, both British.

    And what about:

    Martin Luther King, Jr.
    Rachel Carson
    Rosa Parks
    Dwight D. Eisenhower
    Douglas Macarthur

    And on a different level:

    Louis Armstrong
    Ella Fitzgerald
    Rodgers and Hammerstein
    Bob Dylan
    Steven Spielberg
    Bill Gates
    William Levitt

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Hell, to add to Clavos’ list, Noam Chomsky’s even an American, that ought to make Adam happy.

    Dave

  • Aku

    It does not make Noam happy.

  • zingzing

    from reading the title of this, i really thought it was going to be a right-wing america love-in. but… it wasn’t. really adam. this is a pretty negative view, even for you. we aren’t a perfect country. sometimes i’m not very proud of the things we do. but i can divorce the things our politicians do from the things that we do. our internal politics might be a laugh as well, but at least we have made strides towards equality and recognizing our fellow citizens’ humanity and rights.

    plus, we made punk rock and hip hop. which are, you know, the most important things in the world, day to day.

  • JustOneMan

    Plus is a great place for pre-operative transexuals …right Adam….

    JOM

  • Zedd

    Adam

    Like Clavos I can list a great deal more to be proud of in my lifetime. I would add to his list Malcolm X, and Dizzy Gillespie among others.

    However you are dead on when describing us as of late. What is disheartening is that most Americans are so insecure that they will not take in or even ponder on that sort of criticism. Also your comments aren’t predictable or rote enough. We are used to predictability and happy endings. You omitted to close in a flag waving, motto or even an epigram and cause us to well up with pride and shed a slight tear over our bemusing greatness. Your contribution would have been much better received.

    You were too clear and certainly too pointed. You must learn to fuzzy things up. Its how its done in these parts. sigh!

    What will most likely happen, if we follow the trend that we have started, is that we will put Giuliani in office. We will piss of the small part of the world that is still on our side and Rome will continue to crumble. We will continue to defend our ignorance while gleefully basking in the glory of our wonderfulness as the EU gets more powerful and developing nations develop and snicker at us.

    America love it or leave it!!! tisk tisk.

  • J.J. Hunsecker

    “the Russian Empire crumbled from within without any help from us”

    That’s not accurate. Sure, it would have fallen anyway, but America did help hasten the dissent. From forcing them to spend so much in defense to keep up with us to products like blue jeans and rock and roll.

    “Then came the America of Bush Two. Between Enron…Ford Motors losing $35m a day last year while Japanese car companies are building cars profitably on our soil, and the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries by our highly patriotic corporate elite…”

    Sorry, but all these things would have happened under any President from either side.

    “And what of us chumps unfortunate enough to be stuck inside the USA?”

    While I’m not thrilled with the country’s leadership, I do appreciate the ideals the country was founded on. If you feel so unfortunate to be here, why haven’t you left? I’m not telling you to go, just wondering why stay if you think it’s so bad. Walk the walk if you are going to talk the talk.

  • Ruvy from Jerusalem

    Noam Chomsky? You man that stinkin’ bastard who trashes his homeland and his people and has the admiration of all the fools who can’t tell a Nazi from a nutjob without a score-card (and we got a pack of them at Blog Critics)? That Noam Chomsky?

    Keep the bastard. He’s yours now. I’m waiting for the government that will revoke his Israeli ID and refuse the son of a bitch admittance here, and refuse his ashes (the shithole will probably want to be cremated, just like the goy he acts like). That’s the kind f government that would make me proud to be an Israeli.

    By the way, did I mention that I hate the son of a bitch?

    PS. You Americans can have free of charge, Ilan Pape, Uri Avneri, the asshole who runs ICAHD (I forgot his name, but he was born and bred in Minnesota – stick him in a freezer where it’s 40 below), Yossi Beilin, Ehud Olmert, Shimon Peres, Shulamit (bat zoná) Aloni, Amir Peretz, Aharon Barak, Ehud Barak, Dan Halutz, Stan Fisher (the putz who runs Israel Bank). There are a whole bunch more, but these shits sti(n)k out the most. Just make sure you never let them on Israel soil again. They contaminate the place too much.

  • wdufkin

    I suppose that you’d be proud to give even more than the 30 or 40 percent of the income you currently donate? If we’d all just contribute what?…70% to help the poor it would be a much better nation. United Socialist States of Amerika.

  • Zedd

    Adam

    I might vote for Hillary, if she can stop herself from being the most calculating politician since Hitler

    HILARITY!!!! I thought I was the only one who felt that way.

    Agree about Edwards!. Would consider McCain.

    Giuliani is a jerk! He started his campaign right after 911. What irks me AGAIN is how we are so gullible in this country. People who HATED him as mayor all of a sudden were all misty eyed saying that he galvanized the nation after 911. HOW STUPID!! What else was he going to do? Stay home and tell the media to go stuff themselves then go spit and stump on the rubble at ground zero? I mean REALLY!!

    I suppose with GW sitting there reading his kindergarten book upside down, he pretty much looked like The Masked Marvel.

    A month after 911 I told my friend “Oh goodness, he’s running for President”.

  • moonraven

    The one thing that stuck out in this piece for me was the whining phrase about being “stuck in the US”.

    Anyone with the courage of his or her convictions should have the brains to plan an exit from The Fortress.

    I don’t live there–mainly because I sure as hell am not proud of a country built on the genocide of my ancestors.

    Tomorrow I have to fly from Mexico City to Seattle to take care of some family stuff, and let me tell you I am NOT looking forward to feeling the Ambience of Fear for 10 days.

    I usually have to make the trip twice a year, and I think my breathing only becomes normal when I get on the last leg of the flight home to Mexico.

    The US maybe wouldn’t be such a hell hole if folks were not sitting on their asses doing nothing and making lists of folks who have done something they can feel proud of.

    The folks who have done meritorious things don’t need Conniw Mack clones taking credit for tham.

  • George

    Adam, you could research your facts a little better, but overall, you have only scratched the surface of what is wrong with the USA. The government is obviously nothing less then an organized crime operation, but the majority of the people that live here are idiots as well. And no, I don’t think that this can be over stated. I would not have said this before living here every day for the last 44 years. I also would not have had quite the confidence to say it 10 years ago, but I learn more every day unlike the religiously and politically brainwashed. Proud of the USA? Blithering idiot is not the language I use to describe these people.

  • Zedd

    If you feel so unfortunate to be here, why haven’t you left?

    If you truly respect what was established by our founding fathers you will respect our criticism of ourselves. THAT is what is American. Being over sensitive keeps us from tweaking ourselves; fixing what is wrong with ourselves. We’ve gone dumb because we stopped seeing a need to be FIXED. The sixties scared us and now we are content, after Reagan, to offer sonnets, aphorisms and sayings, all bestowing our wonderfulness and might.

    People come here because we SAY we are liberal. We tell the world that we are innovative and constantly changing for the best. We tell the world that we live in a land where we criticize ourselves and the government at will. When immigrants come they are met with endless nausiating requests to say how much they love America. Any observation that does not containing fawning and gushing is met with anger and the famous phrase, which you so eloquently stated “if you don’t like it leave”. Sigh!

    It seems so needy and insecure.

  • JustOneMan

    Hey Rufus…I see the US welfare checks and foodstamps are late again this month…sorry..I guess thats why your pissed at us…I am sorry I just dont know how it feels to live in a welfare state where you have to depend on another country – the US – to feed and cloth you…

    JOM

  • Emry

    It won’t help the US all that much but it would improve this place a bit if Dave Vox Populi Nalle was booted off for fraud.

    Ashamed of Vox Nalle.

    Proud of the Dixie Chicks.

  • Aku

    “Between Enron, Katrina, the Iraq War, Ford Motors losing $35m a day last year while Japanese car companies are building cars profitably on our soil, and the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries by our highly patriotic corporate elite, there is absolutely nothing to be proud of.”

    Now how did Bush cause Ford to loose that type of money? Oh thats right, Ford has been run by fools who have put it into the crapper.

    So Japanese companies should not be able to produce a profitable car? I espcially like contrasting this with the outsourcing statement, because this is outsourcing from the Japanese perspective. Perhaps the Japanese should stop outsourcing and take all those auto production jobs back to Japan.

    And while I am on outsourcing, We should kick those Chinese and Indians to the curb and give the jobs to us Americans. What hypocracy. This is exactly the kind of nationalistic sentiment this piece rails aganst.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com J.J. Hunsecker

    “If you truly respect what was established by our founding fathers you will respect our criticism of ourselves.”

    He’s the one who said he was stuck here; I asked why. I never used that famous phrase and went out of my way to say that’s not what I meant, so spare the misguided lecture.

    When the criticism is based on an inaccurate premise, there’s no reason to respect it.

  • JustOneMan

    Guys…Adam ASSh…has fooled everyone again with his gift of parodoxical writing…is it april 1st??? This has to be a joke right??

    JOM

  • Arch Conservative

    I am proud that some of my fellow American BC posters have called out Adam Ash on his anti_American bullshit.

    [Personal attack deleted]

  • zingzing

    and i’m proud of people who recognize adam’s right to say whatever the fuck he pleases.

    and same to archie. although he wouldn’t extend the same credit to himself.

  • Zedd

    When the astronaut thing came out, I was like “WHAT NOW”!

    Its all getting so nasty and weirder by the minute. Is it just time for Rome to fall? Has the denial about who we are combined with the dummying down eventually gotten to us? Has our international policy where it comes to poorer and less powerful nations finally become apparent to the world while we sit in our stupor? Are we not importing the right types of immigrants? Why are we so flat and unmotivated?

  • Baronius

    I’m proud of my church and my family. I’m proud of the guy that puts those tiny peanut butter cups in ice cream – that’s pure genius! I’m proud Brett Favre, The Simpsons, and the pharmaceutical companies. I’m proud of the money we raised for tsunami relief.

    I’d never thought to look to the government for a sense of pride. I’m proud of our government’s founding principles, and most of this administration’s policies, but it’s not my source of self-esteem. The thing that defines America is our freedom from our government. Everything about China is a result of the policies of the Chinese government; if you’re proud of China, you’re proud of Chinese policy. You can be proud of America no matter what party or person is in power, because the power they have is limited.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    You can be proud of America no matter what party or person is in power, because the power they have is limited.

    Very, very well said, Baronius. AA makes the common mistake of the left in confusion the current administration and their dislike for it with America and a dislike for their nation. This, of course, suggests that their primary identification is not with America, but with some other group or entity.

    Dave

  • http://adamash.com Adam Ash

    1. I love this country, which is why I’m so pissed that we’ve become such fuckups, and vote for such fuckups.

    2. I wish the BC editors hadn’t deleted the personal attack from Arch Conservative. Really, guys, stop being so prissy. You’re spoiling all the fun, for chrissake. Lighten up, BC censors! I welcome personal attacks, I love them, please keep them in! Don’t be such wuzzes. This sissy nannying isn’t necessary. Haven’t you heard of an American invention called freedom of expression?

  • Arch Conservative

    I love this country, which is why I’m so pissed that we’ve become such fuckups, and vote for such fuckups.

    You live this country? What do you love about it. You certainly didn’t fill us in in your article.

    I don’t think you love this country at all. I think you love the idea that it may be possible for you and your leftist ilk to someday reach a point where you have complete and utter control of government and culture and no one who disagrees with you has any power to advance their values.

    You’ll probably deny this but it’s the truth from everything I can gather about you from you’re writings.

  • Martin Lav

    “Haven’t you heard of an American invention called freedom of expression?”

    Isn’t that something to be proud of?

  • Zedd

    BLOGGERS

    Where is the critique guys???

    I am reading a lot of defensiveness. We are drowning. Jump in and save this country.

    Its like a husband whose wife tells him over and over that she is not happy and he thinks he can argue her into being happy. When she finally leaves, he is left wondering what happened.

    What do YOU want to change?? How about us having THAT discussion. That is a really good way to show your love for America. We are not living up to who we say we are. The entire planet is really laughing at us.

  • JustOneMan

    “The entire planet is really laughing at us.”??? Zedd “what are you 12 years old”? Its obvious you dont travel much..I am on the road 60% of the time 1/2 of that internatioonal travel..guess what…these other countries are not laughing at us…they are wallowing in their own dispair of high taxes, failed policines and the collapse of their culture due to thrid world immigrants!

    The media never covers the pro american sentiment coming out of the new europe and asia..I was in SE Asia last month for 2 weeks…People love americans and would kill to come here.

    Save some of your money working the night shift at McDonalds do some traveling and get some first hand experience…

    JOM

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    What do YOU want to change?? How about us having THAT discussion.

    Ok. The change I’d like to see is that when people make posts like this one, or your comment that ‘We are drowning’, the reaction would be laughter instead of half the readers taking such ridiculousness seriously.

    Dave

  • Zedd

    JOM

    I was born outside of the country. They are laughing Buddy. Why would they tell you to your face? They are really laughing and shaking their heads.

    Now what do you want to do to repair your country that you love???

  • Zedd

    Oh Dave I wasn’t asking you to respond. I know you don’t have anything that even skims on the realistic to contribute. If its not apple pie, hot dogs and baseball oh and guns its not worthwhile to you.

    Sorry I should have been more clear.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Zedd, I was born outside the country too, and a hell of a lot of them are laughing at people like you. Check in with STM sometime and get his view from Australia.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    I live in a city literally full of people who risked life and limb to get here. Not a one of them is laughing, other than in joy, because they got here.

    I’m not exaggerating: come to Miami; stop anyone on the street who’s a foreigner, and ask them if they’re glad to be here.

    We have millions of people who gave up much to come here because they saw it as an improvement over what they faced at home.

    They are not laughing.

  • Zedd

    Clavos:

    I am speaking people that live outside of the US, in today’s world.

    Also, Miami has a different dynamic. Its basically full of dissidents from two countries mainly, who have a personal stake at being right.

    Dave:

    We are talking about today’s world. If you are talking about Europeans, I know you are doing a Dave. You are just saying something to be right. They are laughing Dave. I have traveled to Europe and other countries, because I am more open to hearing criticism about our country, people open up. People are not stupid, they sense who to say what to. You know that. I cant imagine that you give off an air of openness in that area. If you can seem wound really tight online, I cant imagine what vibe you give off in life.

    I personally am much more conservative in real life yet people can sense my openness and they speak freely.

    Both of you:

    I remember being at a home that was full of people and when the news started relaying stories about the US, the entire place roared. My heart sank but I understood. When we re-elected GW people shook their heads and asked what was wrong with us. When they would hear his speeches, it was as if they were at a comedy club.

    We can either deny that we are slipping or we can do something about it. Denying it is not patriotic, its just denying it.

    This country is great and has even greater potential but I don’t think we even think about a greater potential. We act as if we have arrived and truthfully we have so much more to accomplish. We have been the beacon for the world in so many areas, yet our current generations want to live off of the successes of the past and bask in their efforts and growing pains. We are super FAT and dumb and yet we continue to protest any any suggestion that we need to change.

    Clavos, you know that the educated class in other countries is REALLY educated. They are well informed. I don’t know if your parents are from Europe but if they are ASK THEM what the consensus is.

    Why do you think the Dixie Chicks said what they did? The feelings about he US are palatable in the air.

  • Maria Gonzalez-Sanchez

    You can always go back to the Utopian South Africa you socialist liberals created, Oh wait that has became one of the most dangerous cesspools in world. Why is that that white liberals and socialists always want to move to countries, like Canada, that are mostly white?

    Why not move back to the Utopia you liberals created in South Africa? Where you have to live behind gated communities and be careful where you drive. The same thing you did here in the States, Why move to white Canada. Unless you’re really a racist at heart.

  • Maria Gonzalez-Sanchez

    …then you Canada you liberal socialists can destory that country too.

  • Clavos

    Zedd,

    I am speaking people that live outside of the US, in today’s world.

    So am I. These people were living elsewhere, and moved here because it’s BETTER.

    Also, Miami has a different dynamic. Its basically full of dissidents from two countries mainly, who have a personal stake at being right.

    There are significant numbers of people from all over the world, including Russia and virtually every country in Europe, the Caribbean, and Central and South America; FAR more than just two countries (which would those be? Cuba and where?).

    ALL came because life is better here; they were not laughing at us when they lived in their home countries. And they didn’t come here to be right (whatever THAT means!)They came to improve their lives.

    And in the case of the Cubans, they WERE the educated class.

    You miss the point entirely.

  • Maria Gonzalez-Sanchez

    The reason many students in America are dumber then the other European nations is because those who run the massive education system in America are Liberal. They do not believe in giving bad grades or punishing bad students. The liberal run school system in America promotes liberal social political agendas over academics, self-hating history, and radical views over math and science. The worst schools in the Southwest are overflowing with illegal immigrants who are the poorest of the poor from Mexico and other countries (I am a Mexican-American and know the truth), many of them do not have the basic language skills. In the Southwest, where Latinos make up the highest student population, 40% percent of Latinos drop out of school, so what type of test scores are you going to get? That is because liberals refuse to see the real problems, but believe in “feelings” over thinking.

    Liberals reap what they sow, but blame everyone else.

    I suggest you move to South Africa, instead of white Canada, but most liberals and socialists won’t because deep down they are really racists.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Zedd, you are enormously oversimplifying the attitudes of people outside of the US. You’re taking what you may have heard from a few foreigners and what the American left generally assumes about overseas attitudes towards the US, and projecting these things as much more representative than they really are.

    Zedd is certainly right about the attitudes of immigrants, but I’m not even talking about that.

    I’m in regular contact with friends and relatives in Europe and the attitudes there are certainly not as homogenous as you make them out to be. Most people are very friendly and positive towards Americans even if they don’t like our current administration all that much. They’re also very troubled about the problems their nations are facing, and many of them are looking towards the US for guidance and solutions, because they’ve given up on their own governments.

    Sometimes it seems like you listen only to the message you want to hear and ignore the alternatives perspectives which are out there. The world is a lot more diverse than you think.

    Dave

  • Maria Gonzalez-Sanchez

    The proof is that the Teachers Union backs EVERY Democratic candidate. They are one of the largest unions in the United States. I have seen their flyers when it comes to every election. On their pre-election mailers they overwhelmingly back every liberal or Democrat. Now if the Teachers Union backs every liberal and Democrat, and the United States has one of the highest budgets that goes to education…why are the kids dumb?

    That is because the Liberal, Democratic loving Teachers Unions are the ones who are setting the agenda as to what and how things are being taught in U.S. schools.

    So it seems that the failure for those “dumb” American teens can be placed right at the feet of the Liberal leaning Democratic Teachers Unions.

    If you look at the culture, almost every Network, Newpapers, Actors, Music performers and University professor in America are liberal or socialist. So it seems that the main contributers to the “dumbing” of America are those who dole out the leftist American Culture. That rots the brain of any teenager.

  • Maria Gonzalez-Sanchez

    If you are such an avid feminist where is your ‘rant’ about Gangsta Rap? Not one liberal has come to the defense of women in a major way and now many young girls believe acting like a ‘ho’ is cool.

    If you grew up in South Africa…why do you want to move to Canada? In fact why is it all white liberals always say they want to move to Canada, instead of, lets say, Mexico? Maybe because Canada is mostly white. Why not move back to South Africa, a liberals paradise?

    Why is it that most of those “fat” Americans are minorities. The majority of African-Americans, Latinos, and yes even Asians. Because in many of our former countries or ancestors countries, we monitories would be starving to death. Now we minorities have to worry about diabetes, heart disease and stroke, because we eat too much here in America. In fact many racial minorites are DYING to get to America…why is that? If it is so bad?

  • Maria Gonzalez-Sanchez

    Try living in Russia and complain, like the journalist who were assinated.

    Or maybe Cuba, the liberal paradise, where journalists are imprisoned.

    In most countries you cannot complain about the government, but here in the U.S., you can.

    In China and Iran they shut down blogs and arrest dissenters. You can always move there…oh wait…not white enough for liberals.

  • Maria Gonzalez-Sanchez

    “Clinton let the genocide in Rwanda happen”. Last time I saw there were other countries like France, China, Russia, plus hundreds of other countries, who did not raise a finger. The U.N. could’ve prevented that, and even had troops there, but did not do one thing.

    Interestingly you don’t put the blame where the blame lies…the United Nations. You cry about the United States getting involved in conflicts, but then wanted them to go into Rwanda? Where is your condemnation of the other countries who could’ve stopped the killing also? They could’ve created a coalition to stop the killing, but they didn’t. That is not the United States fault, but the worlds fault.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “The one thing that stuck out in this piece for me was the whining phrase about being ‘stuck in the US’.”

    Wow, Marthe!

    I never thought I’d see the day that I agreed with you so wholeheartedly. The main reason I do not condemn you for your views is that you had the guts to pick up your behind and leave The Fortress when you were a lot younger than I. While I can’t stand your own political opinions, I can admire your courage and pluckiness. Leaving the Golden Gate, guarded by a New Colossus (that will fall soon) to do something meaningful is worth admiration.

    Adam, take note. Your are part of the Tribe. You can come Home and stop whining about America. heck, you can even live down the road from me in ‘Eli and learn what it is to be a pioneer!

  • JustOneMan

    Hey Ruvy….stop the propaganda…the toilet that you call home is funded by US dollars – close to $3 billion last year…if the US falls think of the implications’

    1. No more monthly welfare checks to you and you underemployed impotent tribesmen
    2. No more foodstamps
    3. No more free cheese.
    4. The Muslims will pave over your hose and make a falalfel stand

    So you and your so-called punk ass tribesman are reliant in the US to feed your families and put a roof over your head…bottom line you and your tribe of eunuchs..better shut up and keep cleaning the toilets…

    JOM

  • Zedd

    Clavos,

    I am an immigrant don’t forget. Now pay attention….I didn’t say that America is not a great nation. I am saying to keep it great, we must continue to improve ourselves.

    Right now we are SLIPPING and the world is noticing that and chuckles at us because we continue to be arrogant in our decline.

    Again I am talking about AMERICA TODAY. Not 15years ago or twenty years ago or 30. Yes early Cubans WERE the educated class that is why I stated that to you. Today????

    You cant wait until things are totally ruined before you start to improve things. It is now, when things are going pear shaped that we should pull ourselves together. You cant possibly be arguing against that.

  • JustOneMan

    The reason that the world is slipping and sliding into a third world country is that we have allowed the underdeveloped countries to export their trash here while making it nearly impossible for white educated europeans to come here leagally…

    Then we dumb down the standards to no hurt anyones feeling…

    JOM

  • Zedd

    Maria

    No one cares about that liberals (ooooh we are scared) thing any more. That was impactful in the 80’s. Get with the times. Perhaps you should think of another term to jump on to and define as EVIL and spooky.

    Its another millennium that stuff was for a more impressionable public. You do realise that your opinion of liberals was a manufactured idea by people who wanted to snow you into voting for them. It was only a political ploy. You fell for it and now you are on an international forum yakking away about it. How embarrassing…. By buying into those stupid ideas you become a pawn. All that us against them stuff is stale and doesn’t fit into our current world. NEXT……

    We need to unite and fix our country. The politicians have run it down while we were bickering over titles and who’s flip flopping.

  • Clavos

    I am an immigrant don’t forget.

    As am I, my dear, as am I.

    Replacing the educated Cubans of yesteryear are the educated immigrants from Venezuela, Nicaragua, Colombia, Ecuador, Russia, etc.

    Right now we are SLIPPING and the world is noticing that and chuckles at us because we continue to be arrogant in our decline.

    In my ongoing travels abroad, I don’t find that people are “chuckling”, and it’s not because people are afraid to show their real feelings to me; I’m rarely spotted as an American, especially in LatAm. That’s BS.

    And exactly HOW are we “slipping?”

  • Zedd

    JustOneMan

    Yep all of those White educated types who littered the slums in the early and mid part of the last century, who came from the slums of Europe.

    Denial is one of the factors that contributes to our not growing. If we have a real perspective of what it took for us to be who we are, we can learn from that and get better. If we are delusional about who we are/were, there is no way that we are going to progress.

    Are you aware that immigrants from developing countries in Africa and Asia are highly educated and are overwhelmingly represented in our graduate schools and in our science departments?

    You do know that Africans are THE most educated people in Britain?

    The world has changed. Wake up.

    Check on the grades of immigrant and immigrants kids in your local schools. They dominate academically. While your grand kids are probably more concerned with Paris Hilton and a keg, those kids are told that they will be going to Harvard at 5yrs old.

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    Are you seriously telling me that in Latin America among the educated class, there is no discussion of our bizarre state (for lack of a better description)? I find that VERY hard to believe. I dialogue with educated Latinos and they are prolific and engaging and are certainly shaking their heads at what is going on.

    If you cant tell how we are slipping then we should even be in this discussion. The entire premise of this conversation is based on that observation. I won’t be able to convince you in just a few back and forth posts. We are just on different plateaus as it relates to this topic.

    I bow out respectfully.

    While Rome slept……….

  • Zedd

    Maria

    No we are dumb because we buy into ideas that we havn’t really thought through. Liberal, flip flop, cut and run……. What does that really mean? We don’t care, it just sounds good. DUMB.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    JOM,

    I’ll keep this short and sweet. Take your money and shove it up your ass (if you can get your hands on any of it), take your soldiers and get them the hell out (before events lead to us forcing them out – in body bags), take your damned president and his mouthy snatch of a secretary of state, and keep them home, take your fuckin’ puppets (like Stanley Fisher) home before we stretch their necks on a rope for their treason, and take your arrogant American attitudes and get the fuck lost.

    You and your kind are NOT welcome in this part of the world at all. Just be grateful that I can’t hurt you. Though, on second thought, you’re not worth the bullet.

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    More of that sweet reason the Middle East is so well known for…

  • JustOneMan

    Ruvy…does that mean you have finally destroyed your American passport? Or do you still need it as your exit strategy when the shit really hits the fan…

    And I see you are still incapable of addressing the facts…funny how you tell me to take our money and shove it…while you continue to take this feces stained money EVERY DAY!…gee your hands must smell pretty bad! As the colonel would say “Finger lickin good!”.

    How ironic..you dare to threaten to kill me with a gun and bullet paid for with my American tax dollars…like an ungrateful mongrel…biting the hand that puts the food and water in its bowl every day of its life!

    Gee…I was just thinking I never met an arroagant Israeli…lol…lol…lol

    JOM

    PS Fuck You, you ingrate!

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    CLAVOS: Are you unconcerned by the still increasingly strong trend of being concerned about appearances rather than issues? Not that that is a uniquely American trait of course.

  • JustOneMan

    Zedd..here are some stats right off a UK website on poverty

    Two-fifths of people from ethnic minorities live in low income households, twice the rate for White people.

    More than half of people in Pakistani and Bangladeshi households are in low income households.

    People of African, Bangladeshi, Caribbean and Pakistani descent are all twice as likely as White people to be out of work but wanting work.

    Black Caribbean pupils are three times as likely to be excluded from school as White pupils.

    Black young adults are three times as likely as white young adults to be in prison.

    hmmmm just the facts — gee I can hear them laughing its so loud!!!

  • Paul2

    JOM-A same list would be applicable to the US and its minorities.
    The difference is that the British have a free public health care system and that 50 million Americans have no health insurance at all.

    And what is this obsession that the US is the greatest country in the world and everyone wants to come and live here and everyone is envys the US. Many people are happy were there are in a ystem that sets different values and not desperately seeking the US. Thats complete garbage.

    And third world immigrants want always want to go to countries that are richer than theirs.

  • JustOneMan

    Paul..rather than accept the facts you trya nad make excuses…ILLEGAL immigrants and those with specific economic backgrounds are brining this country down….France and Spain will be paying a huge price for letting in 3rd worlders that refuse to assimilate and as in the US they will bring us down to their level..not create something better…

    Your liberal play book is getting old…look at the facts…in the US LEGAL Asian immigrants get the program they participate in government, school and culture…the ILLEGALS have no intention to step-up and be Americans..instead they are content raising another generation of dishwasher and gardners…

    JOM

  • Paul2

    JOM

    I never said immigration or illegal immigration doesn’t cause any problems. They do that and I’ve experienced that from living in Germany. But as you’ve stated it is a problem in many countries and it cannot be completely avoided.

    –and the US is not the center of the universe.

  • nugget

    ya know how one person can merely say “hey” to you and you want to hit them in the face? and then another person can throw you out of a moving truck and you still love them for it???

    well, that’s how I feel about these latino illegals. Even though they are illegal I don’t care. I like them. I like all these Mexican restaurants. They aren’t filling the prisons. They’re not much trouble. Let ‘em stay and don’t let it happen again.

  • JustOneMan

    Nugget…”They aren’t filling the prisons.” LOL LOL

    Illegal aliens are NOT necessarily coming here to work. Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare. So, for a good proportion of these people, the American dream is crime and welfare, not coming here to work.

    JOM

  • Paul2

    JOM

    yeah right everybody is so fond of receiving those BIG FAT american welfare checks …

    what are you talking about. American welfare payments are ridiculous.

  • JustOneMan

    Paul2…this issue is Ruvy loves to bash the US while he lives on public assistance in Israel that is funded by 3 billion a year in US tax dollars…

    JOM

  • Clavos

    Zedd 54:

    Are you seriously telling me that in Latin America among the educated class, there is no discussion of our bizarre state (for lack of a better description)? I find that VERY hard to believe

    I didn’t say that at all. Re-read my comments.

    What I DID say is that significant numbers of the educated classes of several LatAm countries are moving to the USA and Europe, fleeing the imposition of repressive, socialist governments by the likes of Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, and Rafael Correa.

    I also said that in my travels I don’t find people laughing at US; I didn’t say they’re not talking about us.

  • Clavos

    Christopher 59:

    Not sure what you’re asking. Rephrase? Example(s)?

    If you’re speaking of the mass of Americans, I doubt very many care one way or another what we look like to the rest of the world.

    Most would be unable to find the world on a globe…

  • Paul2

    JOM– you stated in #65 that illegal immigrants dream of American welfare. Thats wrong. No one would aspire that, it be better to go somewhere else.

  • JustOneMan

    Clavos …In most other contries either they cannot afford to purchase a globe, arent allowed to purchase a globe or like the Europeans still believe the world is flat and curse Christopher Columbus every chance they get…

    JOM

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    The Israeli economy has an annual GDP of around 166 billion dollars so the US contribution is a little short of two percent. Now how much has been spent on the bogus war on terror?

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    #71: In which JOM shows his understanding of the world is as profound as his grasp of Economics and Politics. It must be comforting living in that rhetorical bubble of yours…

  • Paul2

    “Europeans still believe the world is flat”

    JOM — your obviously unsuited for a rational discussion

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    Clavos: I’m saying that everything from military policy, international relations and even things like the USA’s self-image and national political issues are being dealt with in an increasingly cosmetic manner that leaves the real issues neglected. Again, not uniquely American.

  • Clavos

    Well, Chris, your original question asked if I was unconcerned about the trend of being more concerned about appearances than issues. I’m not.

    Why do you ask? Was it something I said?

  • JustOneMan

    gee I guess you guys really let me have it… lol lol

    I laugh in your ugly anti-America faces…

    JOM

  • Baronius

    How about this –

    America isn’t the center of the world. Neither is Western Europe. The US is respected in Eastern Europe, and in much of Africa and Asia. We’re aspired to by the people who have gained freedom with the fall of Eurocommunism. We’re heroes to the nations fighting Islamic terrorism. We’re the economic engine of the Americas and the Pacific Rim.

    I find it insulting to the rest of the world that America is constantly judged through the eyes of England, France, and Germany. I’d much rather be respected by Slovakia, Lebanon, and India.

  • Paul2

    Baronius

    the question is why is it so important for you to be “admired” or to be a “hero”.

    And i’ve never heard any outstanding African or Asian admiration for the United States and not in Lebanon either.

  • tommyd

    [quote]The reason that the world is slipping and sliding into a third world country is that we have allowed the underdeveloped countries to export their trash here while making it nearly impossible for white educated europeans to come here leagally…

    Then we dumb down the standards to no hurt anyones feeling…

    JOM[/quote]

    Just On Man, rock on. I agree with all you’re saying.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Paul, I can at least confirm that the Lebanese love the hell out of America. That’s why they all live here now.

    Dave

  • Paul2

    … Lebanon must be empty by now

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    You think you’re making a snarky comment, Paul, but in fact more than a third of the population has left the country in the last generation, mostly to the US and Australia.

    All the reasonable people have moved out, leaving the crazies behind to fight over the ruins.

    Dave

  • Paul2
  • Baronius

    Paul, maybe I wasn’t clear enough.

    The American Left says “America is a pariah”. The American Right responds “we don’t care about the world’s opinion”. I’m saying “America is a pariah among nations I don’t respect”.

  • Paul2

    Apparently you seem to disrespect all those that are not fond of “your” country.
    What a convenient coincidence.

  • Aku

    Paul, Paul,

    What he is saying is that Britian, France, and German public opinion should not be the only basis of what we judge ourselves on. It seems rather Euro-centric. Infact criticism of the US take Western European public opinion as “the World.” Why are these countries more Important than, say, India, Indonesia, Taiwan, Polland, or Argentina.

    Truthfully, I care more about India than France, more about Japan than Germany, but that is just me.

  • Baronius

    Aku – Thanks. I’m not getting anywhere on my own.

    France stood by while Saddam tortured and killed his population, because they liked the oil and the appearance of being a bridge between Europe and Islam. They agreed to support a conditional UN resolution against Iraq, then left us in the lurch. You’d better believe I have more respect for Indonesia and Pakistan. They’re in a struggle for their survival against our common enemy. So are France and Saudi Arabia, in their own ways, but they’re not ready to admit it.

    This article is about national pride. Sometimes being a leader means that old allies don’t follow. I’m proud of where we’ve led. I’m not going to feel ashamed because some countries have failed to join the battle. I am bolstered by the response of many of our natural allies against Islamic terrorism – if that’s a personal weakness, so be it.

    The point is, it’s not just a coincidence that I respect the countries who agree with us. It’s consistency. They’re the ones who are making the moral choices I believe in. The American Left has a tendency to weight the opinions of Western Europe higher than, say, the Indian subcontinent. But Western Europe hasn’t been earning that deference.

  • Paul2

    Barronious

    I can understand that — if that’s of interest to you –, that opinions need to be respected worldwide.

    You imply that Iraq was invaded to “prevent torture” and that it was part of the war against terror.
    That was wrong from the beginning and it has proven to be wrong and affirmed by multiple sources, even the US senate. There was no Al-Quaeda or 9/11 link. Even the other arguments, these ominous weapons of mass destruction, proved to be completely wrong. Mr. Powell himself said that is presentation of false “evidence” (mobile weapons units) at the United Nations was the most embarassing moment in his career. An so, since Iraq was not threat to the US, you cannot seriously assume that this was or is a battle against a “common enemy”, thus a war on terror.

    Furthermore many other smaller and economically disadvantaged nations or military regimes have been pressured by the US to take part in the war or have their aid cut. And that is well documented.

    Western European nations had several reasons for not participating, and one of the main reasons was
    that they feared a massive ethnic conflict errupting. And they weren’t so wrong about that.

    As cooperation against terror is concerned, cooperation on all levels (economic, judical and miltarily) between “Old Europe” and the US has been significant. In Afghanistan, in Lebanon and elsewhere.

  • Baronius

    Paul, I’m pretty sure I’ve said more about Brett Favre than Al Queda on this thread.

    I didn’t follow the first sentence of your last comment.

  • Zedd

    Dave

    Most people are very friendly and positive towards Americans even if they don’t like our current administration all that much.

    Yes you are right they don’t.

    Sometimes it seems like you listen only to the message you want to hear and ignore the alternatives perspectives which are out there.

    Dave we have heard good things about America that is not anything new. People always express liking Americans and loving our model of democracy. They do say that we are cocky and sometimes rude but they like us for the most part. However this change in opinion globally is a new phenomenon. We need to look at it closely. Hanging on to what we want people to think about us and not paying attention to how views have and are changing is irresponsible.

    In business one would never carry on knowing that there are aspects of their operation that are failing; deciding to only focus on the good things about he business.

  • Zedd

    JOM

    Your post about British immigrants is unthought through. The who came here from Europe last century AGAIN lived in slums, were the largest criminal element, etc.

    It looks like everyone is following the NORMAL path.

    Still Africans are the most educated in Britain.

  • Zedd

    Baronius

    People read and access news in Lebanon and India. BELIEVE me, the view of the US has changed!!

    Yes we are liked but we are loosing our cache. Lets just deal with that and stop being in denial.

  • Baronius

    I don’t know how to respond to “stop being in denial”. “Ok, I will”?

  • Clavos

    BELIEVE me

    Why? Where’s your hard evidence?

    Can you point to polls taken in India? Polls that indicate what you’re asserting?

    You do this all the time, zedd. you make unsubstantiated statements; then when some of us don’t buy them, we’re “goobers” or “silly” and have to “believe” you.

    Uh Uh. Not without verifiable (not anecdotal) proof.

  • JustOneMan

    Zedd and the rest of his ilk are in a permanent state of denial…

    JOM

  • zingzing

    JOM– if you haven’t read enough of zedd’s comments to know what sex SHE is, why do you bother responding?

    baronius: “I’m proud of where we’ve [the U.S.] led.”

    ok. where is that? into a fucking ditch? we’re on the other side of the world and we can’t get out! (“we’d win if it weren’t for your liberal mouth.”)

    we’ve got iran and north korea threatening to nuke everything in sight. (“we can nuke them back! into the oblivion from which they arose, mu-wa-ha-ha-ha!”)

    south africa is beating us in human rights. (“you call them human?”)

    we’re teetering on the edge of the fucking crusades in a nuclear world, and we’re pushing just as hard as they are. (“bring it on!”)

    genocide goes unanswered in africa. (“that’s europe’s fault too!”)

    you jingoist [Edited].

  • STM

    What has America done in my lifetime that is good?

    I can think of two straight off the top of my head: its magnanimous attitude to the defeated combatants of WWII – the restoration both of their economies and their societies, including the turning of Japan into a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy, and all done without removing all vestige of their former cultures.

    In fact Germany, Japan and Italy fared better in the post-war carve up of US aid and influence than did its former ally Britain, which is still paying off the remnants of a huge loan from the US that saved it from bankruptcy (but at least they stumped up the cash).

    And yes, I know all three had the sh.t bombed out of them by the western allies … but you reap what you sow, as unpleasant as it is. At least the US didn’t behave like the Soviet Union, which was hell-bent both on brutal revenge and the enslaving of whole populations.

    As for the current administration and the ill-informed/duplicitous bureaucrats pulling the strings behind the scenes: they are probably most worthy recipients of the title of blithering idiots, rather than Americans in general.

    Some of the things you’ve cited have little to do with the US, but I do agree with you on one thing Adam: on military spending … imagine the quality of affordable, universal healthcare Americans could enjoy if the US military budget was cut even by a paltry 5 percent.

    The big problem for America is the polarisation of its political views, the lack of genuine democracy (two party system representing the interests of billionaire corporate backers and lobby groups, NOT the people) and the amount of time it spends wringing its hands over what everyone else thinks of it.

    True imperialists don’t care about that. Which means you are just driven by corporate neo-colonialism …

    In the meantime, if you want change, put power back in the hands of the people and get out there in the streets and make your views known like the Vietnam era.

    A hundred thousand dissenting voices in the streets are better than one on the internet wilderness … and at least the law says you can.

  • nugget
  • STM

    Arch wrote: “No objectivity whatsoever. Just blind, insistent anti-Americanism”

    Arch, criticising the policies of your own government is not anti-American at all … it might even be as American as apple pie, as it’s supposedly what America is founded on.

    Wasn’t that the reason Bush, Blair and Howard said we were going to war in the first place?

    By their own definition then, wouldn’t criticising them simply be exercising the rights we are given in a democratic country (especially as they WERE lying about the real reasons)?

    If everyone was forced to have the same view, wouldn’t it be a totalitarian state (like Saddam’s Iraq or Stalin’s Russia or Hitler’s Germany)? Ash or anyone else here writing piffle is part of the democratic process, as he points out too.

    You can’t be accused of being un-American for exercising a basic right guaranteed by the US constitution and enshrined in American common law.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle


    You can’t be accused of being un-American for exercising a basic right guaranteed by the US constitution and enshrined in American common law.

    Actually, making that accusation is an expression of the same right. And JoM isn’t objecting to the speech, he’s objecting to the content and what it represents.

    Read Zing’s #97. That’s not reasoned criticism of America, it’s unreasoning hatred.

    The key difference is between being angry with things America or Americans have done, and being angry with America just becuase it IS America.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    dave: eh?

    that’s response to someone. someone who said they were proud of where this world has gone over the last few years, and that other countries are pussies for not following us.

    not everything up there is america’s fault. it’s just where the world is.

    you chowder-head, READ!… i ain’t angry with america, at least i wasn’t then… i’m angry at the spot the world’s in. if that’s where we’ve “led” it, then what the fuck are we doing leading anything?

    “unreasoning hatred…” yah, go on…

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    The problem, Zing, is that we didn’t lead most of the world anywhere. They went there all on their own. We’ve indulged them with their farce of a UN and bailing them out of problem after problem and asked nothing in return.

    It’s bizarre – principles we claim to believe in domestically we just throw out the window when it comes to dealing with other countries. I mean, what happened to the ideas of personal responsibility and accountability and self-reliance? Shouldn’t we expect other countries to live up to those ideals?

    Dave

  • STM

    Dave said: “The key difference is between being angry with things America or Americans have done, and being angry with America just becuase it IS America.”

    I agree with the first part of that post above Dave, in regard to Arch’s position, but I still think even that part I’ve lifted here is a basic right of free speech guaranteed by the system we live under (although in reality it’s not always how it pans out, is it? No offence, Dave, but Americans don’t always see how oppressive their governments and their agencies can be in regard to their own citizens).

    IMO, as long as people aren’t going around blowing the sh.t out of people, or plotting to do real harm, all the above is OK. That’s where the line is crossed. I’m reluctant to use moonraven as an example here, but she is a good case in point as she obviously isn’t exactly enamoured of her own country and by her own admission is still a US citizen. Yet by voicing her *cough* strong opinions about her own government, she is simply exercising the right that her citizenship is meant to afford. The fact she doesn’t like the place one iota and doesn’t want to live there is up to her and is largely irrelevant. She doesn’t have to like it. No one does.

    I can think of other similar examples here too, where the same stuff applies, including some oppressive actions by the police and security agencies. The big difference for all of us I guess is that we all in theory at least DO have recourse to the law and an independent judiciary to argue our cases (provided you can afford it and unless you’re David Hicks and are locked up in that disgrace known as Guantanamo Bay).

  • Baronius

    Guantanamo Bay is the only place in Cuba with food, medical care, and freedom of religion.

  • STM

    Well, that might be how you see it Baronius but it’s still a disgrace. David Hicks waiting five years for a sham trial before a kangaroo court – what a fair dinkum joke. And don’t talk to me about US justice in this case.

    Had he been tried in his own country – where the writ of habeus corpus still forms the cornerstone of the criminal justice system (for now) – he’d have been tried and very likely served his sentence by now. What’s going on there in Guantanamo Bay and in Washington around this stuff, military commissions and all, is just a load of hot co.k and bullsh.t.

    I don’t disagree with the US tracking down terrorists or suspected terrorists, but at least afford them the same rights they’d be entitled to under the US criminal justice system.

    Because in this case, the key word is suspect. A suspect – and everyone’s entitled to the presumption of innocence – shouldn’t be sitting in jail for five years without even facing a charge.

  • Zedd

    GUYS LET ME TRY THIS

    I am a woman and I love fashion. I strive to look lovely as frequently as possible. I have a high sensitivity to the aesthetic. Today, if I encountered a Micheal Kors dress (at a nominal rate) I would pounce!! However, I am disgusted with the fashion industry. I find it to be out of sink with what women are. I find it to be almost vulgar in its portrayal of the human condition. I find its faux “artistic expressionism” eye rolling. In many cases its just disrespectful. I am turned off by men who are clearly needy social outcasts interpreting women and in many cases getting it very wrong. But give me a finely sculptured bag or shoes and I am almost orgasmic.

    In the same way, people love Americans or the model of America, however there are things about America that are ridiculous. One major thing is our need to be loved by all, always. It is ANNOYING. Do realise that most immigrants LOVE their motherland. They truly LOVE the feel, of day to day life (the interaction with people). They love the traditions, food, etiquette and even smells of their motherland. You’ve heard an Irish person talk about Ireland so poetically, even while it was in “rubble” because of conflict.

    People love the country that they are IN also. They may not be happy with the politics/economy but they LOVE their country. To expect that people should fawn over another country all of the time is weird. We have been making fun of other cultures forever. In our eyes, no one’s got it quite right. Well people see our quirks, especially now and they get a chuckle.

    We have trained the world not to tell us what they REALLY think. We are the big dogs on the play ground, unless people fawn all over us, we will take our ball home.

    Earlier I posted about how we think we are generous when in actuality we are the stingiest of all industrialized nations; how we give to poor nations with a condition that they use all of our machinery and experts until it ends up costing them more for whatever project that we “GAVE” to, than if they’d just done it on their own. They end up with more debt and we act as if we did them a favor when we actually raped them. Yes people want to come here but they don’t like us as much as we think they do.

    Like me and fashion. I find the hubbub ridiculous but hand me a bag and see a perfectly poised women melt into butter.

  • Zedd

    Baronious

    We kidnap people and put them in Guantanamo Bay. They were eating in their countries of origin just fine.

  • STM

    Zing wrote (to Dave) ” … you chowder head”.

    Lol. Nice one Zing … one of your best. I assume it means the same as the great Aussie term “you knuckle ‘ead” (the silent H being obligatory, a bit like French but not really).

  • Zedd

    Zing

    (“you call them human?”)

    Watch it!! I may have to retreive a spear from my attic and hurl it in your direction.

    mu-wa-ha-ha-ha!

    Funny!!!

    I love diablolical laughter. You’d think that someone would say “oh no, I just did the diabolocal laugh, oh god I’m crazy!” But no they just proceed with their plans to “TAKE OVER THE UIVERS mu-wa-ha-ha-ha!”

    I love how you spelled it out perfectly! Chuckles!!

  • Zedd

    STM

    I hope your diplomacy is noted by all and appreciated.

  • STM

    Yeah Zedd, you are right about American neo-colonialism: it was telling that we and British were the only people foolish enough to go to war with the US in Iraq from the outset, and then neither were going to be included originally in the reconstruction of Iraq’s infrastructure – the contracts all going to US companies. They’ve still got a bit of work to get through, too, just quietly …

  • Zedd

    STM

    What is sad is that most of us wont know what you mean by neo-colonialism… sigh.

  • Zedd

    Someone added this nugget on another thread.

    STM: don’t go telling the Yanks the truth now, you know it upsets their delusions…

    ;-)

    I wonder what they meant by that?

    But its just me…

  • STM

    Zedd: we were talking about the proliferation of firearms in the US and the blind belief that the 2nd amendment – an 18th century anachronism in 2006 – guarantees the right of all citizens to bear arms. It doesn’t. It was designed to ensure the keeping of a standing militia (now the National Guard) but is today trumpeted as the justification for allowing every second lunatic and every third semi-sane person (hello Dave!) to own a gun. My right to comment on this: I’m not American, granted, but it has an affect on me as I have visited the US from time to time. And one of my mates was shot in Boston in really bizarre circumstances. Luckily, he lives to tell the tale.

  • Zedd

    STM

    I know what you were talking about. I was making a smart alec point about the fear of the truth and delusion as observed by people outside of the US.

    Christopher, what’s with the italics? Was it me?

    [Yes it was, Ms Zedd. You not only used the old school capital I, which has now been replaced by em, but you used traditional brackets to close the tag, not the more/less than arrowhead brackets. Bah! lol]

  • STM

    Sorry Zedd. It’s 12.30am here, stuck at work and I’m tired – thinking is even more skewed than normal. Yes, I think the italics are down to you. I don’t know how, but they have to be closed off somehow or they proliferate like rabbits.

  • Paul2

    “Guantanamo Bay is the only place in Cuba with food, medical care, and freedom of religion.”

    I wonder what you personally would say after you’ve imprisoned for five years of your life with no charge at all and then released with a simple “sorry. we thought you were someone else.”

    You want rights granted to you that you deny others.

  • JustOneMan

    Zedd..you make statements with no facts…” actuality we are the stingiest of all industrialized nations”

    This is a capitalist society…I am sure you are in the same camp blaming this adminstration for trying to be the worlds police force..you cant have it both ways…

    The next time you buy your clothes try not to of think of all those Asian 9 year olds working 20 hour days for 24 cents…

    JOM

  • Paul2

    Zedd is very right and her statements are based on facts JOM, its just something you don’t want ot hear.

    Net Offical Development Assistance
    as percentage of GNI (Source: OECD-2004)
    —————————————–

    Norway 0,87
    Luxembourg 0,85
    Denmark 0,84
    Sweden 0,77
    Netherlands 0,74
    Portugal 0,63
    France 0,42
    Belgium 0,41
    Ireland 0,39
    Switzerland 0,37
    UK 0,36
    Finland 0,35
    Germany 0,28
    Canada 0,26
    Spain 0,26
    Australia 0,25
    Austria 0,24
    New Zealand 0,23
    Greece 0,23
    Japan 0,19
    US 0,16
    Italy 0,15

    You just dont want to hear what you don’t like.

  • Doug Hunter

    Official development assistance doesn’t count emergency aid or private donations (where the US does somewhat better) so as to cast the US in as negative a light as possible. I like the results, that means American dollars are staying in America and we’re not subsidizing failures.

    Which are the greatest contributions to third world countries? A few billion dollars or the development of vaccines for polio and smallpox, the invention of the computer and internet (thanks Al), and the increased productivity of western farming methods and technologies.

    How much credit did you give the US (and UK sometimes) for those?

    This is simply socialist rhetoric warmed over, attempting to make the weakminded feel guilty for other nation incompetence and failures. From each as they are able to each as they have need is a recipe for human mediocrity and a setup for catastrophy.

  • Paul2

    It is obvious that you have a problem with facing reality, just as some others, simply because you are obsessed with the assumption that the US is the best society in the world in absolutely all respects.

    If you’re faced with offical facts, you’re denying them or you’re saying that they aren’t valid.

    The Organization on Economic Cooperation and Development has no interest “to cast the US in as negative a light as possible”. What makes you think that ? And where do you get that from ?

    And an offcial statistic is not a “socialist rhetoric.”

    And your contradicting yourself: if you think that developing aid is wasted money, why do you argue the US actually giving a lot more.

    It doesn’t make any sense.

  • JustOneMan

    Good try Paul2…but you only tell half truths to support your disdain for this country and its citizens…here are the real facts..

    Even though the your numbers show US GOVERNMENT aid to be poor (in percentage terms) compared to the rest, the generosity of the American people is far more impressive than any other country.

    Americans privately give at least $34 billion overseas—more than twice the US official foreign aid of $15 billion at that time.

    American citizens give more aid than ANY OF THE COUNTRIES ON YOUR LIST. Gee I wonder why you left that out!

    Again your positions is based upon mistatements and illogical arguments…

    JOM

  • Doug Hunter

    I noticed you failed to address my comments on our technological contributions, whose benefits far outstrip the welfare money we send out. I suppose that’s an inconvenient reality for the hate America types.

    R&D Expenditures

    US $330(Billions of US$)
    China $136
    Japan $130
    All 15 western EU countries combined $230

    The technology created by the US, and many others, is what has driven the global explosion in wealth, prosperity, and population. Handouts are nice, but they’re a byproduct of human advancement not a cause of it.

  • JustOneMan

    Good job Doug…these guys just cant see reality through their hatred…

    JOM

  • Paul2

    jom+doug

    no one spoke of hatred besides you. and that’s obviously your own problem.

    the statistics i stated state what thay state. nothing more and nothing less and i didn’t claim anymore.

    its obvious to me that the us gov’t could spend more than a country like greece, but thats obviously beyond your comprehension.

    the other claims you made are worth mentioning but they can only be seriously assessed by naming a source and by combining offical and private aid broken down to the GNI.

  • zingzing

    zedd, quoting me, then speaking for herself, said:

    “(“you call them human?”)

    Watch it!! I may have to retreive a spear from my attic and hurl it in your direction.”

    ack. i was talking about gay people. sorry. it was late.

    as for doug and jom–congrats! you just back up what everyone’s been saying… “i don’t hate america, i hate our fucked up government!” woo! fuel on the fire, bitches!

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Re. #122. Paul shows a real talent for providing partial and deceptive data. What you have there is a list of government foreign aid, not a list of total international aid. The US leads the world in private donations for international assistance, which combined with our government aid puts us near the top of a comprehensive list. When the lists are compiled by socialists, they assume that all aid must come from the government. But in a free, capitalist society that’s not the case.

    And BTW, I hardly think giving out a lot of aid to poor countries is something to be proud of, since it’s that aid which is largely responsible for supporting and perpetuation the oppressive governments which keep those countries poor and oppressed.

    Dave

  • Zedd

    Dave

    Since I made the statement let me clarify, I was speaking of the United States, not individual citizens of the planet.

    As a nation, we are the stingiest. Heck we wouldn’t even pay are dues at the UN. As individuals thanks to those horrible liberals like Winfrey, and Gates.

    Your statement about how we give more as individuals because we live in a free and capatalistic society is just STUPID Dave. I rarely use that type of language but DANG!!! That is just STUPID. You think that people give because of capitalism? Try our tax laws.

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    Thanks.

  • Zedd

    Zing

    Shame on you!!

  • Zedd

    Paul2

    Thank goodness for you!!! Sanity reigns!!!!

    Why are you so open minded????

  • Al Baker

    LOL on several comments. Nice.
    I have lived on three continents (earned my Ph.D. in Scotland) and I must say that until you have lived – not just visited, but lived, in other places, you really do not know what you are talking about if you speak poorly about the U.S. OR you are just plain short-sighted, probably by some kind of political and/or religious idealism.

    Sure, we have plenty of blights in the USA, but I’ll tell you, every time I return I am damn happy when the border agent takes my passport and says, “welcome home, Mr. Baker.” Don’t get me wrong, I actually enjoyed living in these other countries and I enjoy the countries I visit each year, but no other country has as many people trying to get by the borders as the USA…and with good reason. They aren’t coming here because we are the cruel leaders you find in several African countries. They aren’t coming here because they want to enjoy the economy of Mexico, or for that matter the EU, which has a tremendously low (sometimes stagnant) economy and job growth rate. They aren’t coming here so they can live in the “alien” quarters Muslims find in France.

    I work in an office that at one time had 13 nationalities (we are down to around 10 now). I used to love it when our more liberally minded Americans started up on the worn-out “blame America first” chorus. Typically our naturalized citizens would shut them up! Either one of the managers, who fled communist Romania, or one of our programmers, the son of a Korea man/wife who had their little business, land, and everything else taken from them in the communist takeover and fled with only the clothes on their backs and their two children.

    I remember being chided by a couple of British professors while watching a Super Bowl in Scotland at 3am, laughing at silly Americans for getting weepy during their national anthem (and we were being hosted that morning by an American!). We have problems and we need to keep addressing them…but in my opinion if you are not proud of your country you should either go live somewhere where you CAN be proud OR shut up while you work to make it better. And guess what? I don’t mind if you think making it better means trying to do things that I highly disagree with – that is your right and obligation. But don’t trash the very country that allows you the freedom to open your mouth and spew out venom. Quite frankly, it’s just rude.

    I’ll never forget when the flag burning issue was being handed down by the Supreme Court – some small town in Alabama passed a city ordinance that it was against the law to assault a flag burning protester, punishable with a $10 fine. Good ol’ boys were lining up outside the county courthouse to pay some of those fines “in advance.”

    America – Love it OR (Leave it OR Shut up)

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Since I made the statement let me clarify, I was speaking of the United States, not individual citizens of the planet.

    And I’m not talking about either, I’m talking about the citizens of the US collectively.

    As a nation, we are the stingiest.

    A meaningless statement. There’s no obligation to destroy third world countries with foreign aid, and there’s nothing wrong with preferring to address needs in other countries through private charity rather than government aid.

    What on EARTH is wrong with making support for charity voluntary instead of taking money from everyone by force and giving it to the pet projects of a few members of the governing elite?

    Heck we wouldn’t even pay are dues at the UN.

    That’s a whole different issue, and there are lots of reasons not to suppor the disaster that is the UN.

    As individuals thanks to those horrible liberals like Winfrey, and Gates.

    It’s hardly all liberals. Christian charities send more money and resources overseas than any other source.

    Your statement about how we give more as individuals because we live in a free and capatalistic society is just STUPID Dave.

    No Zedd, as usual, the stupidity is in your inability to understand obvious truth.

    I rarely use that type of language but DANG!!! That is just STUPID. You think that people give because of capitalism? Try our tax laws.

    Which are part and parcel of our capitalistic and individualistic approach to government. They exist because as a nation we made the decision to let people choose for themselves how to use their money to help others, rather than funneling it through the government.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    zedd: “Zing, Shame on you!!”

    ok. the quotes in parenthesis are the typical (maybe exaggerated) right-wing response to what i have to say. so i say that s.a. is beating us in the human (ok, civil) rights dept, and that a bad, bad right-winger would say “you call them (gay folk) human?” sigh… why must i be misunderstood?

  • Zedd

    Zing

    I knew you were kidding goober.

    I was kidding too. Going along with your bigoted right winger act. You know they like to be chided (like rappers). It gives them street cred. They get a chance to do their Limbaugh act. If you were serious I would have posted a novel :o)

  • Doug Hunter

    It’s OK Zing we all know you’re “down for the struggle”. Say whatever you like!

  • Zedd

    Dave

    Just stop.

    Giving help to people with AIDS is not destroying a country.

    We destroy countries because we say we are giving but we are actually creating more loans to us. If I give you 10 cents for a piece of gum and tell you that you have to buy it from me and I sell it for 30 cents, you are not really giving me a dime, you are loaning me 20 cents (with interest).

    Its a crime.

    Now…

    America- is a country. America is stingy.

    Americans- are people. We give because we are people not because we are Americans. People share their last loaf of bread. Women will breast feed a child that is not theirs, regardless of nationality in refugee camps. Is that international aid or foriegn aid?

    Which are part and parcel of our capitalistic and individualistic approach to government.

    I guess you are anti capitalisim now. You want a sales tax. STUPID!!!!

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Just stop.

    I suppose you’d like that, but the truth is a juggernaut which cannot be stopped.

    Giving help to people with AIDS is not destroying a country.

    It is when that money gets diverted to the coffers of a dictator who uses it to build up his military, genocidally murder thousands, and doesn’t let any actual aid get through to those who need it. Without that aid money to prop his regime up the dictator might fall.

    We destroy countries because we say we are giving but we are actually creating more loans to us. If I give you 10 cents for a piece of gum and tell you that you have to buy it from me and I sell it for 30 cents, you are not really giving me a dime, you are loaning me 20 cents (with interest).

    Loans aren’t all that we do, but the same problems apply with them as with outright aid. The efforts are only effective when the government of the troubled nation allows it.

    America- is a country. America is stingy.

    No, America has a different approach to providing aid. Not believing that it’s government’s role to be the main source of overseas aid is not stinginess, it’s a philosophy of what the role of government is and is not.

    Americans- are people. We give because we are people not because we are Americans.

    No, because we are Americans we understand that government isn’t the answer to problems like this and that our individual efforts are what really matters.

    I guess you are anti capitalisim now. You want a sales tax. STUPID!!!!

    When did I say I wanted a sales tax? And a sales tax isn’t automatically anti-capitalist.

    Dave

  • jaz

    #141 – “I suppose you’d like that, but the truth is a juggernaut which cannot be stopped.”

    How can you type that with a straight face?

  • Paul2

    The data of government aid cannot include private aid because it is simply a list of government aid. And you can talk as much as you want: the richest nation in the world is not really out on sharing.

    None of the countries in the list are socialist, with this claim you’re disqualifying yourself.

    “Private aid” is a very controversial issue for many reasons, also because foreign immigrant workers send savings back to their families in other countries. And that cannot be attributed to the donor country.

    If you add gov’t aid and charity the US is still second to last as you can see here.

    You ridicule yourself by saying development aid isn’t any good, when you’re claiming in the same paragraph that all of the aid given is wasted.

    You might as well admit to yourself that you just don’t give a f*ck about anyone else.

  • Clavos

    Three words: The Marshall Plan.

    We’ve done (and do) our share…

  • Paul2

    That has nothing to do with developing aid.

    But you’re right, the Marshall Plan has been very successful. Thats why the US received most of the money back from countries that received money from it.

  • Zedd

    STRANGE STORY BUT STAY WITH ME, it gets weirder.

    Tanna is an island in the Republic of Vanuatu. It is 12 miles wide and 25 miles long. Vanuatu is a Melanesian island nation. It lies in between Fiji and the Solomon Islands

    In this island there is a cult which worships John Frum. It’s not at all clear that anyone by that name ever actually visited the island. Nevertheless, a cult has grown up around him. The John Frum movement commemorated its 50th anniversary day before yesterday.
    Some people suspect that it came from the GIs who would say I’m John from America. They believe his spirit lives in the active volcano on the island of Tanna. Most of John Frum’s followers live at the foot of the volcano.

    None-the-less, on the February 15th the natives tie cans around their ankles and write USA on their chests while dancing. Some men make up riffles with bamboo form lines like soldiers, marching in unison. They are followed by a rag tag band which plays the Star Spangled Banner.

    The cheif said when interviewed “He’s our Jesus and John will come back.”

    Here’s the really weird part… I know….

    American tourists Marty and Patti Meth listened to villagers play the Star Spangled banner on bamboo flutes. They say it made him feel patriotic.

    “I think it’s really nice to see Americans welcome here since in many places of the world, we’re not so welcome these days. I don’t want to make too much of a political statement out of this, but this is what our country’s all about and should be welcome.”

    Huh???
    It gets better….
    They went on to say,

    “I think Americans would be extremely proud to see a country in the south Pacific so favorable and appreciative of American democracy.”

    What is wrong with you guys!!???

  • Clavos

    That has nothing to do with developing aid.

    Excuse me? What other nation, victorious (along with our allies, of course) in a war rebuilds the other participants, including the defeated ones?

    And how is that not aid?

    Thats why the US received most of the money back from countries that received money from it.

    So, because it’s mostly been paid back, it’s somehow less of a gesture?

  • moonraven

    The Marshall Plan was an INVESTMENT PLAN. The US invested in the economies of the couontries that were on the losing side in WWII so that it could have a viable market for its products.

  • Paul2

    You’re right, is was a great gesture, it was a whole lot of cash and it was very successful.

    But it has nothing to do with the little money being granted to third world countries TODAY.

  • Paul

    sorry, my computer just crashed.

    #147 and it is aid…

  • Clavos

    Paul,

    Re your point that we aren’t giving enough today:

    Much (if not most) of the aid we (or the UN) DO give to Third World countries never reaches the people it’s intended to help, thanks to the corrupt government officials that are endemic to those countries.

    As long as the aid is being ripped off, what’s the point in giving it?

  • Paul2

    Clavos-

    I don’t think that most of the money is wasted, but it’s probably quite a bit.

    It depends in what form the aid is being granted. I think that it would be better to give it to NGO’s than directly to the governments, to have more control.

  • Zedd

    Who said that EVERY developing country is run by a dictator? Why are we operating on that premise?

    For some reason it seems as if its really cool to be dumb, on this thread.

    Most developing countries are virtually new nations. After colonialism they had to start afresh. It took us 150 years to get our act together. After 100 years, we nearly killed each other off. Why would we expect countries that are 40, 50 years old to be organized and well run? And we had the benefit of getting the innovators from all over the globe.

    It doesn’t happen. When it does, its an anomaly. It just goes against human nature.

  • Zedd

    So, because it’s mostly been paid back, it’s somehow less of a gesture?

    No, its just not AID. Stay focused Clavos. The topic is not on nice gestures. We are talking about giving. Not loans.

  • Clavos

    Paul,

    I think that it would be better to give it to NGO’s than directly to the governments, to have more control.

    I agree with that.

    I have personally seen USAID goods (marked with the USAID logo) for sale in markets and stores in virtually every Third World country I’ve traveled to (mostly Latin America, Asia, and Africa) over the past forty years.

    I DO believe that, when funneled through governments, it’s mostly ripped off, though not all of what’s stolen stays in government employees’ hands.

  • Zedd

    Ditto.

    This would be true for any country, person or entity. Handing money over without it being monitored is foolish.

    I don’t think we do as much of that as we purport to. I think that has happened in the past though.

  • Baronius

    America provides a type of foreign aid that no one here has talked about yet. Our economic influence promotes world trade. The post-WWII world has seen unprecedented trade – actual trade, not the mercantilism of past centuries. International institutions, many of which the US co-founded, are the instigators of that trade.

    Imports and exports promote international stability. Trade has, historically, helped advance US clout. American military strength has aided trade historically, whatever you may think of the use of the US military today. This wasn’t just a happy coincidence, either. We deliberately showed off the benefits of a capitalist system as a contrast to the “free trade” among the Warsaw Pact nations.

    So when you look around the world at billions of people emerging from poverty, that’s another thing that Americans can feel proud of.

  • nugget

    yea I’m too ADD to read the posts above.

    As far as this thread is concerned, I must be a blithering idiot.

    Show of hands: who ELSE is a blithering idiot???????????????????

  • Clavos

    Baronius,

    Based on your #159, I think you’d enjoy a book I’m reading (if you haven’t already):

    P.J. O’Rourke
    On
    The Wealth Of Nations

  • Baronius

    Clavos, the second I saw a book recommendation, I knew it’d be PJ. I haven’t read his latest yet, but I loved All the Trouble in the World. And on a totally different subject, if you ever get the chance, read an essay of his called “So Drunk”. Heck, if you get the chance, read anything of his.

  • Clavos

    I knew you’d be a PJ fan. Don’t miss that one.

    He puts the inimitable classic PJ O’Rourke wit to excellent use explicating Adam Smith. Superb!

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    The data of government aid cannot include private aid because it is simply a list of government aid.

    So why use that as your example when it’s clearly not the full picture. Bit of spinage there?

    And you can talk as much as you want: the richest nation in the world is not really out on sharing.

    At least so long as you’re cherrypicking data.

    None of the countries in the list are socialist, with this claim you’re disqualifying yourself.

    What planet do YOU live on? Most countries are half-socialist, including the US.

    “Private aid” is a very controversial issue for many reasons, also because foreign immigrant workers send savings back to their families in other countries. And that cannot be attributed to the donor country.

    So you’re saying the $64 billion sucked out of the US economy and sent to Mexico last year was not paid by US employers? Come again?

    If you add gov’t aid and charity the US is still second to last as you can see here:

    Again, you’re cherrypicking. That chart is weighted by GDP, which cannot reasonably be used to index something like charitable donations, because there’s no real relationship between the two. Indexing by population might make some sense. If you take the figures from your chart and adjust them back so that they represent dollars rather than GDP adjusted dollars the US moves up to the top of the list.

    More to the point, let’s look at a specific example. In the recent Tsunami crisis in the Indian Ocean, the US government donated $950 million, which was more than any developed country except for Australia. But more significantly, US private donations totalled more than $1.875 billion, 3 times the charitable donations of any other country. Overall between government and private aid, the US more than doubled what was given by any other single nation.

    Now if you want to talk stingy, let’s get down to cases and bring in the Red Chinese. With the largest population in the world and one of the largest GNPs their government and charities donated less than tiny Taiwan.

    Dave

  • Zedd

    Adam

    You baited all of the kooks now at least have the decency to dialogue broer.

  • Zedd

    Dave

    In the recent Tsunami crisis in the Indian Ocean, the US government donated $950 million, which was more than any developed country except for Australia.

    You know full well that we were shamed into that donation. The entire world pounced on us for being so STINGY (words used by UN). Well you probably don’t know because you were glued to Fox (what a joke) News.

    Also, in per capita private giving we are ranked 4th among the most developed nations. Which is good. However, we are not the most generous individual givers either, no matter how you slice it.

  • Zedd

    Dave

    Im sorry that data was from 2002. The more updated data says we are #9 in individual giving per capita.

  • moonraven

    There is no reason for much of anyone to put any weight on the idea of being proud of one’s country.

    Nationalistic jingoism and racism are not what this planet needs any more of.

    It’s going to take all hands on the same deck to prevent our species from going the way of the pterodactyl.

    Get real.

  • Paul2

    Thats what I tried to say: patriotism get’s you nowhere… it just prevents you from making rational decisions.

  • Clavos

    It’s going to take all hands on the same deck to prevent our species from going the way of the pterodactyl.

    Probably won’t happen (“all hands on the same deck,” that is).

  • http://adamash.com Adam Ash

    Zedd my broer:
    I didn’t have time for dialogue, because I’m working on my next piece of kook-baiting.
    It’s called: “Why we should be ashamed of our troops, especially our generals.”
    Look out for it, it’s coming this week.
    I’m looking forward to being called all sorts of names, though I imagine the BC censors will delete many personal attacks, which is a great pity.
    Groete by die huis.
    Adam

  • Adam Ash

    Zedd:
    Sorry about calling you broer. I believe I should’ve said suster.
    Adam

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Also, in per capita private giving we are ranked 4th among the most developed nations. Which is good. However, we are not the most generous individual givers either, no matter how you slice it.

    I never claimed that we were the MOST generous, just that we gave a reasonable amount when you actually counted both governmental and private giving.

    I’d much rather we spent money domestically than overseas as a rule. We get more bang for our buck that way.

    Dave

  • Zedd

    Dankie Adam

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Hey, Just One Man,

    I NEVER lived on the dole in my life. PERIOD. Face it. You don’t know shit about this country. You’re just like the [Edited] hick in Minnesota who told me that whenever he hears the word “Israel” he reaches for his back pocket to make sure his wallet is there.

    You’re just that smart – or should I say just that stupid – and bigoted to boot.

    That stupid asshole sat with his buddies from Northern States Power Company as they stuffed their faces with pork and bitched about the damned immigrants and Jew congressmen.

    Sounds a lot like you, Just One Man.

    One more time[Edited].

    US aid works this way. It is a credit chit to buy second rate stuff in the US. This means that 95% of the money never leaves the United States. The remaining 5% is administrative cost of providing the aid.

    Israeli soldiers wear uniforms that are too green a shade of khaki because they are made in America, they wear combat boots made in Ohio instead of Beersheva, they carry US M16’s that constantly jam instead of quality Galil rifles made in Israel. They are dependent on American permission to sell missiles that were developed here but made with US parts, etc. etc. If Israel uses bombs and missiles to attempt to “control” terrorists (instead of castrating the mukhtars of the villages where the terrorists live to get a humiliating message across to the bastards that they have to live with about how terrorism does not pay), the IDF has to go begging to the US for money to buy more missiles. That is called creating a conditions of dependency on the United States. That is not aid at all. That is called colonial control. Didn’t they teach you anything in school? You know, like, how to think?

    At least we still have our made-in-Israel nukes that we can use while we get our own arms industry back on line.

    Who knows? Maybe we’ll get a government that is more intelligent than that little ass kissing weasel Olmert. Miracles can happen.

    [Edited. You seem to have missed those memos that went on at great length about how you’re not allowed to change people’s usernames and how we want to foster a greater spirit of brotherly love and respect on Blogcritics, Ruvy. Consider yourself reminded… The Comments Editor.]

  • Mohjho

    Well Adam, pride in my country does not pay my bills or keep me or my family healthy. It’s really not something I don’t think about much, but Ill give it a try.

    I guess I’m most proud of the American tradition of business prowess. Not just the corporate domination type, but down home make a living through skill and smarts type of business. That’s why so many try so hard to get into this country. They want a better life for their family, and that’s what they get. You can make what you want here if you got the mojo and some luck.

    All these hyper critical rants about America seem more like personal problems and excuses than traumatic experiences. I would not mind living in another country, but I got my plate full just paying my bills and juggling family obligations.

  • methuselah

    “I’d much rather we spent money domestically than overseas as a rule. We get more bang for our buck that way.”

    For truth. If we had spent a fraction of the trillion dollars that the Iraq invasion has, so far, required on proper inspection of airline flights and container shipments we would have MUCH better National Security than by haring around in the ME trying to kill all the terrorists.

    When we finally abandon the endless task of ransacking the ME in a fruitless search for every last terrorist we will have squandered the money without achieving the goal. Whereas, had we spent just part of that money on airplane and ship controls we would have accomplished our purpose for sure.

    But that would have caused some temporary discomfort for certain Big USA Corpporations and would have deprived the Bozo In Chief of glamorous military hauteur so it couldn’t be done.

    Oh well: first things first.

  • STM

    Dave wrote: “More to the point, let’s look at a specific example. In the recent Tsunami crisis in the Indian Ocean, the US government donated $950 million, which was more than any developed country except for Australia.”

    And Australia only has a population 20 million ….

  • JustOneMan

    [Edited] Ruvy: Gee you really are arrogant [Edited]… there is no other country in the world that supports your sorry ass country more that the US… so stop degrading your biggest supporter… The reason you piss me off so much is that you piss on the US anytime you get the chance… you are an ungrateful punk… I bet you really live in Brooklyn in the basement of a bagel shop [Edited]

    The funny thing… I am a big supporter of Israel and the people that you support will walk away and let you and your tribesmen die at the hands of the fucking Muslims…

    [Edited] just because you dont like the truth dosemt make you right…

    JOM

  • Doug Hunter

    If Israel dislikes US aid so much all they have to do is say no, it’s that simple. Me, Ruvy, and JOM will all be happy.

    As for national pride, I’d say it’s more pride in the system than the geographic area. If you’re not proud of your government how do you justify handing them 50% of everything you earn?The US is particularly disliked by the left (including those posting on this board) for two reasons.

    First, we take free market and capitalist principles more seriously than most nations (we’re farther to the right) and it pisses them off to no end that the US continues to succeed without their precious allmighty government controlling every aspect of our lives.

    Second, the leftist excuse for their ever growing list of failures usually involves blaming outside forces and evil capitalists. Bigger is always better and, although it hasn’t worked well at any smaller level, they now have their sights set on one giant world socialist government that will have power over every human on the planet. They’ll lose their ability to place blame on someone else for their failures, but once you’ve disarmed the populations and have the power to rewrite history the actual truth won’t really matter. National pride is a very large obstacle, hence the demonization and continual propaganda against it.

  • zingzing

    wow, paranoia is wonderful.

    doug, that last paragraph is a ridiculous fantasy of yours.

  • STM

    Doug Hunter wrote: “Second, the leftist excuse for their ever growing list of failures usually involves blaming outside forces and evil capitalists. Bigger is always better and, although it hasn’t worked well at any smaller level, they now have their sights set on one giant world socialist government that will have power over every human on the planet.”

    Some of your best work there Doug … who is “they” mate? Aren’t the commos now totally discredited? What kind of socialism are you talking about … the type like Britain’s or Australia’s, where governments work in accord with industry and workers and the courts to set good minimum wages, weekend/night penalty rates, holidays of at least four weeks’ a year, superannuation (paid by the company) and conditions and job guarantees second to none and you get free, quality universal medical care, or the type like Kim Jong Il’s where you get fu.k all?

    Mate, do you really think the rest of the developed world doesn’t operate on capitalist, free-market principles that don’t differ markedly to those of the US? Most of it does. Some places just involve workers in the process too (which might actually be a good, capitalist expedient since workers produce everything). I guess that might be the one point of difference. Do your bloody homework on it old boy. As for the rest of your post, I’d respectfully ask that you give yourself an upper cut.

  • Paul2

    Dave

    “Indexing by population might make some sense”

    In the SAME message you praise US aid for the tsunami in absolute numbers.

    How ridiculuous are you ?

  • Zedd

    Whats with this paranoia about the leftists? It really sounds nutty. Let it go……….

  • Doug Hunter

    “Whats with this paranoia about the leftists?”

    Leftists are distrusted by people like myself because their worldview requires everyone to bend to their wishes, pay their taxes, and submit to their big government regulations and controls. My right wing views require you to do absolutely nothing, they have a word for that – freedom.

    Under my view anyone can still donate to any charity, save the environment any way they like, pay as much taxes as they like, they just don’t have to. In the leftist view these things must be forced onto everyone and people thrown in jail if they don’t participate.

    That’s it in a nutshell.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Well put, Doug. The scariest thing about leftists is that they want to enslave us ‘for our own good’.

    dave

  • Zedd

    Doug

    You have a naive perspective on human nature.

    Without taxes and therefore tax breaks, you think people will continue to give their money to charity. You think our schools will progress and our hospitals will be maintained?

    People aren’t saving the environment right now and there aren’t nearly the number of laws as there are in countries that have made a concerted effort in this regard. What would makes you think that if we decide not to have ANY environmental laws that people will immediately conserve on their own in droves.

    Test your children ask them to do the right thing and don’t monitor them. They will do what comes natural, the thing which causes them the least effort. Without regulations and funds to support our civic projects, a society fails. Lets grow up.

    Also the lefties thing is just tired. We are in a different world. People aren’t set on just one way of thinking or doing things (well with the exception of yourself and a few other dinosaurs). We are in a solutions oriented aged not a ideologically committed stalemate.

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    #181: What justification do you have for making this remark, Doug? It sounds like 1950s era anti-Communist fear/propaganda.

    #182: Ditto, Nalle. Where do you get these paranoid delusions from? If you mean extreme left politics, possibly, but where is that happening? It is also true of extreme right wing/fascist regimes but you never harp on about that in the same mindlessly persistent way. All you do is render yourself entirely unbelievable, just like the boy who cried wolf…

  • Doug Hunter

    Zedd,

    I never said leftists didn’t have good intentions at heart in most of their requests. You fit into the elitist stereotype perfectly though, you believe you know how to expend people’s resources better than they do. Here’s something for you, the world is full of people who think, like you, that they are smarter and know better what people should do with their time and money.

    I value freedom with risks over control with security, you choose the opposite. Again, the difference is that you’d be free to support all the things you believe in my ideal, whereas I’d be forced to live my life at your whim in yours.

    I find that a little unnerving.

    I also disagree with you on the better society = more involved government malarcky. A better society is created by wealth and technology, both of which grow and expand much quicker in a free system.

  • Clavos

    Doug #185,

    Well said. Especially this:

    I value freedom with risks over control with security

  • Nancy

    I’m late to this one, but I was amused & interested when I was re-reading Charles Dickens’ “Martin Chuzzlewit” to note that exactly the same scenarios were playing out 180 years ago in the US as today: Americans bragging about the liberty & freedoms of the US – & they’ll kill anyone who says otherwise, or dares to criticize what might be truly wrong with their native country. The more things change ….

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Where do you get these paranoid delusions from?

    You’re not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

    If you mean extreme left politics, possibly, but where is that happening?

    In the US, Christopher. I realize that in Europe the extreme left has become part of the mainstream, but we’re running a bit behind here, and there’s still a struggle going on to keep that philosophy from being legitimized in the face of a strong push to bring it into the mainstream.

    It is also true of extreme right wing/fascist regimes but you never harp on about that in the same mindlessly persistent way

    I would if the extreme right in the US was as much of a threat. Because our extreme right is so extreme, it marginalizes itself and has a very hard time gaining widespread acceptance or making an assault on the mainstream. I do bash the religious extremists every so often, but it’s overkill before I even start, because they’re so inherently non-viable politically.

    you do is render yourself entirely unbelievable, just like the boy who cried wolf..

    As I’ve said before, living in Europe as you do, and with so little real understanding of the situation in America you repeatedly demonstrate that you just can’t begin to grasp how we think and the struggles this nation is facing.

    Dave

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    Here we go again! The extreme left is not part of mainstream European politics at all. If you knew anything at all about global politics, and as a politics “editor” surely you should, you simply wouldn’t make such ridiculous remarks as you’d know how it was undermining your already shaky credibility…

    As I’ve said nothing at all about what I consider how Americans think or the challenges facing the USA, I’d love to know how you reached that entirely convincing conclusion. Please do go on, enlighten us all as to just how you Americans really think and the struggles you perceive your adopted nation as facing…

  • zingzing

    are you really worried about some extreme left-wing takeover, dave?

    from where?

    who?

    doug, you sound like an anarchist. i like anarchists. they’re cute.

  • zingzing

    chris, on dave: “the extreme left is not part of mainstream European politics at all. If you knew anything at all about global politics, and as a politics “editor” surely you should…”

    see, the problem is that dave sees everything to the left of him as extreme left wing, because he doesn’t realize just how far to the right he really is. on a few positions, he shows moderation, admittedly, but his gun-toting paranoia gets the best of him most of the time.

    so, it’s quite natural for him to see european politics as veering far left. he’s just got his terms all mixed up.

  • Baronius

    You’ve got to recognize that the American Left has a kinship with the European Left. The Supreme Court isn’t taking queues from the Mexican Constitution. No one’s comparing our position on the death penalty with India’s. Our gun violence, health care system, ease of college entry, religiousity, pretty much everything is compared to Europe. Europe is held as an example that we should aspire to, and it’s sure not by the Right.

  • Clavos

    As sorry a collection of tattered, fading, has-been empires as the European countries (possibly excepting GB) are, they’re the last we should be aspiring to emulate.

    Once, maybe.

    No longer.

  • zingzing

    so are we trying to be an empire then?

  • Clavos

    I certainly hope not, which is one reason we shouldn’t emulate the Europeans.

  • Clavos

    Mis phrased that last (#195). Should have been:

    I certainly hope not. It’s one of the many reasons we shouldn’t emulate the Europeans.

  • zingzing

    well, which are they, “has-been empires” or empires? can’t have it both ways.

    i don’t think we have to emulate any one country or group specifically. that would be silly. but we can learn from the good and bad of each country.

    some parts of european society are worth emulating. some parts are not. same with the rest of the world. shit, we’ve got things to learn from south africa, of all places. (no offense, zedd, south africa…)

  • STM

    Chris wrote (to Dave): “Here we go again! The extreme left is not part of mainstream European politics at all.”

    That’s true Dave, in the UK (and Australia) it’s known as the loony left and is the object of derision, much like the rabid right. People don’t take it seriously. If you need any proof of this, just look at Tony Blair’s New Labour. Labour were never a chance of gaining power in Britain while the number crunchers in the party had to bow down to the Left to achieve their aims. Blair reshaped the party – just as had been done with Labor in Australia after the fall of the radical Whitlam government in the mid ’70s.

    The architects of these new Labour/Labor parties at both ends of the globe have been virtually identicakl and have recognised that you can have genuine social justice and change AND work in accord with private industry. A healthy dose of pragmatism brought Blair to power, just as it brought Neville Wran and Bob Hawke to power in Australia.

    These new ideals of pragmatic socialism don’t don’t bow to the left. They embrace capitalism. But they include workers and unions in the process of improving prifits and raising living standards. The benefits flow both ways – the simplistic explanation: companies get support from the government, the right tax breaks, and help in marketing and what have you for access for instance to new overseas markets, while workers aim for higher productivity and have their rights on wages and working conditions enshrined by law. And as I have said many times before, I believe such things as the right to universal, free quality health care (and a decent aged pension after all those years of paying taxes) is just that – a citizen’s right.

    I know it works; I have lived under it. I have also this past decade lived under a right-wing government that subscribes to the user pays theory on just about everything and thinks it can do whatever it likes, and bugger the people, and I know which is best. If I ever hear the world mandate used by a politician again to justify broken promises (“sorry, but that wasn’t a core promise”) I think I’ll scream. The fact that you haven’t really experienced such things in the US doesn’t mean that what goes on in the rest of the world couldn’t also apply to the US.

    I describe many of these policies that you guys think are about socialism as citizens’ rights. Government is there to help the people, not to run itself. It is about community, rather than rabid leftisim – and really is a mark of a society that has matured enough to be confident with itself.

    It is nice to live in a place where people think it’s OK to close the gap between the haves and the have nots, and can achieve it not by taking the haves down, but by bringing the have nots up.

    One of the markers of this social justice is the lessening of polarity. You will find, generally, the grey areas between the major parties in developed nations outside the US are much smaller and a lot less grey. Those with a good system of proportional representation and caps on election funding from idustry/lobby groups fare even better, because to win government the parties don’t have to manufacture issues to gain power or stay in power. By neccessity, they MUST bow down to the will of the people.

    For these reasons, but not these alone, I no longer believe the US is a genuine democracy. The voice of the people comes second to those with big money who can back a party into power.

    IMO, the last time Americans experienced true democracy was in the 1970s, when people got out into the streets to demand an end to the Vietnam war and to protest against corruption in high office.

    It is powerful stuff, though painful for America at that time, and the legislators listened. You seem to have deviated so far from the course, no one is even sure now what the course is.

  • Clavos

    Re-read my 193. I think it was pretty clear. I don’t see where I was trying to “have it both ways.”

  • Clavos

    It is nice to live in a place where people think it’s OK to close the gap between the haves and the have nots, and can achieve it not by taking the haves down, but by bringing the have nots up.

    No argument from me there, Stan. Problem is, in this country, those who are the most vocal about closing that gap only talk about taking the haves down. Nancy’s comments on the topic here on BC are perfect examples of that.

  • zingzing

    “As sorry a collection of tattered, fading, has-been empires as the European countries (possibly excepting GB) are, they’re the last we should be aspiring to emulate.”

    you said this. so i snarkily said, “are we trying to be an empire” because you said europe is a bunch of has-beens as your reason for not following in their footsteps.

    you answered my question by saying that we shouldn’t emulate europe because we don’t want to be an empire.

    so… it logically follows from your first statement that europe is a bunch of has-been empires, and we shouldn’t follow that. it logically follows from your second that they are empires, and that’s not something we want to be.

    while i am playing with you a bit, i am only trying to point out that your first statement is very vague and doesn’t contain any specific criticisms. it doesn’t really say anything useful.

    so you should rephrase it.

  • Doug Hunter

    “doug, you sound like an anarchist.”

    It’s all a spectrum, I’m no more an anarchist than every leftist is a communist. My core values place higher value on freedom than most therefore I’m lumped in with the right amongst the violent bigots and looney christoids.

    You can’t truly understand the ‘logic’ that leads me to my position because we each have different underlying values and assumptions that change at a glacial pace if at all. I can scream 1+2=3 all day but if in your mind you see 3-6/7=41 it’ll be about as productive as arguing politics.

    That being said, I really truly don’t understand the mentality that drives some to want to use government to tell others how to live or what to do with their property or what causes to support or what to like and dislike (even if it is in their best interest). That inability to comprehend or really follow the logic and values of the left is what really unnerves me about being ruled by them.

  • STM

    Americans don’t need to take their cues from Europe. Each society is fundamentally different. However, Europeans have embraced much of what is good about America, and rejected the bad, and Americans could probably look to Europe for the same kind of benefits by picking up what is good.

    BTW Clav, being a faded empire might not be a bad thing, since embracing such change is a recognition that imperialism isn’t the way to go.

    I realise many Americans don’t see themselves as imperialists, given that they aren’t colonising in the true sense of the word. But neo-colonialism and US-style corporate imperialism are still colonialism and imperialism. The Poms colonised for trade, US corporations do the same, with the implicit backing of the US government, which facilitates situations – through trade deals, and promises of aid – where American companies can operate. The only difference was, the poms planted the Union Jack everywhere they went. US companies bring their corporate logos. There’s little difference, and what is, is semantics.

    A rose by any other name …

  • Zedd

    Clavos and Doug

    Go live in Iraq. Now real law but plenty of risk.

  • Clavos

    Now you’re being a silly goober, Zedd. STOP IT! GROW UP!

  • Zedd

    Should have been NO real law and plenty of risk.

    Hey how about Somalia?

    You two are sadly immature. At least Doug is. Clavos is just in an another echoing phase. He’ll regain his sanity soon.

  • STM

    Zedd: “Clavos is just in an another echoing phase. He’ll regain his sanity soon.”

    Lol … the day Clav regains whatever sanity it is that he has lost is the day I leave blogcritics. Dave, meanwhile, is only half-insane so that doesn’t count.

    Now, you, Zedd, dear madam …

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Here we go again! The extreme left is not part of mainstream European politics at all. If you knew anything at all about global politics, and as a politics “editor” surely you should, you simply wouldn’t make such ridiculous remarks as you’d know how it was undermining your already shaky credibility…

    You’re just wrong, Christopher. That’s part of your inflexible eurocentric worldview. What you consider mainstream we in America would consider extreme left. That’s the heart of the problem here. Voters in Europe will consider as potentially acceptable parties whose policies would put them in the lunatic fringe in America.

    You don’t see this because you think of it as normal and for you the division between left and right is much farther left than it is in the US, but facts are facts. I can take almost any country in Europe and run down examples of mainstream parties whose platforms would be completely untennable in the US, and mainstream political leaders – even heads of state who hold beliefs which would make them unelectable in the US.

    Please do go on, enlighten us all as to just how you Americans really think and the struggles you perceive your adopted nation as facing…

    My adopted nation? Come again? I was born a US citizen because both of my parents are from the US, and I gave up my claim to Lebanese citizenship when I turned 18.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    “What you consider mainstream we in America would consider extreme left.”

    stop trying to talk for america. they certainly are left of mainstream america, but you’re certainly right of it, and you do not speak for everyone in america, so stop trying, even in this little space. it’s fucking ridiculous, and you’ve been pulling this shit for the past couple of days and it’s really fucking pompous and annoying.

    you try and identify yourself as a “libertarian,” that 1-5% of american political positions and next you want to speak for america?

    make up your mind.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    So, you agree with me on this point, but you feel it necessary to bash on me just for fun?

    Libertarians of one kind of another make up way more than 5% of the population. When questioned on issues rather than party allegiance close to half the population comes out as libertarian (the philosophy, not the party). Libertarianism IS the US mainstream.

    Dave

  • http://www.antequeravillarental.com Christopher Rose

    STM: Your words are a beacon of wisdom and sanity in the bizarre Alice-through-the-looking-glass world that people like BC’s Politics Editor and his fellow travellers imagine they live in.

    Dave: Your comments in #209 simple serve to confirm what I’ve written in the previous paragraph. The fact that many unremarkable European political ideas and politicians “whose platforms would be completely untennable in the US” is wonderful evidence for the truth of that.

    “Libertarianism IS the US mainstream”

    HaHa ahahahahahahahah.

    Oh my, I need to sit down before I wet myself!

    What delightful insanity!!

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    It was funny. Admit it.

    STM

    But I made you chuckle.

  • Doug Hunter

    “Go live in Iraq. Now real law but plenty of risk.”

    I support, and almost everyone does, the laws against assault, murder, and property crimes. Another weak argument from an individual who thinks way to highly of their own intellect. (I guess it does partly explain why you think you are qualified to use the government to control others)

  • Zedd

    Doug

    In America, the government IS the people.

    Something tells me that with all of your talk, you don’t place giving and participating in charitable activities as a high priority. You just hope that everyone else will do so.

    May I ask how old you are??

  • STM

    Zedd wrote: “In America, the government IS the people.”

    That’s true in theory Zedd, but it’s no longer really the case in practice. I no longer believe the US is a genuine democracy. With no caps on campaign funding (which really should be funded in equal measure by the government itself) for the two major parties, the party elected to power tends to be the one with the most backing from corporate/lobby group interests.

    That means it represents those interests, rather than those of the people, who in truth are now disenfranchised to a large extent from the process of true democracy as it was envisaged by the founders of the United States. Time for some absolutely vital reappraisal over there Zedd before it’s too late.

  • Clavos

    Too true, Stan.

    These days, the government in America IS the lobbyists; and not just the corporate ones, by a long shot.

  • Morte Cerebrale

    Amazingly succinct blog.
    I quote from my YT profile……”Before I get any shit about “who gives a fuck about Norway” and receive even more threats of invasion (I swear I’m not making that up) my adopted country’s lost a few of its young people in US actions lately. Guys whose only crimes was to actually believe the lies offered by the politicians over here..
    So.. Norway is where those kids families still live and try to adjust to the horror of losing them as some kind of involuntary blood sacrifice to The Knesset and US Congress.”
    Thanks again for a to-the-point, point of view. I actually must profess ignorance about candle-lit vigils in Iraq… I now watch interviews of Sarah Palin with amazement and disgust. Are we heading into a new dark ages?

  • The Magical Negro

    At the very least, I’ll give you kudos for admitting that Clinton was an idiot for turning his back on Rwanda.

    Beyond that, all I saw was the standard idiotic bile that spews from the lips of the “Blame America First” crowd. “Oh, terrorists aren’t all that bad! WE’RE the bad guys!”

    Something your drive-by media doesn’t like to highlight: most of those civilian deaths in Iraq? Those come from IEDs… and Americans don’t lay down IEDs. I never laid any IEDs while I was in Iraq. I never shot any civilians.

    I would tell you to get bent and go to a socialist country to have your fucking health care, but it already looks like we’re going down that path. So I’d like to thank you and your cronies for ruining our country.