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If Don Imus Goes, Then Al Sharpton Should, Too

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What’s wrong with Al Sharpton?

Ever since Don Imus spat out some ill-chosen words on the air, the Black Right has built up public outrage and called for Imus’ resignation — or that he be fired as host of his radio program. Apparently no number of apologies from Imus is enough to suit folk like Al Sharpton.

Instead, Sharpton has gotten greedy and is perhaps contributing to the continued cycle of racism in America. Because of his greed, if Imus goes, then so must Sharpton. Martin Luther King, Jr. advocated peaceful protests, while Al Sharpton calls for destruction of individuals’ lives to promote equality.

What Imus uttered was simply stupid. If he was black, I’m sure he’d be blasted for making such a watered-down compliment — if it was one — along with insensitive stereotyping of women, in whatever context it may have been. But Imus is white, so everything is now about race, instead of the stupid comment Imus made.

I’m not black and won’t pretend to claim that I’m outraged by Imus’ utterances. If anything, I thought it was a contextually poor phrase to use on a national radio program. But some people didn’t like his comment. Sharpton blasted Imus immediately. Sharpton told everyone else in America that the only good justice was Sharpton’s justice, and called for Imus to be knocked off the radio waves. The media continue to eat it up like piranhas in a feeding frenzy.

So, really, what’s all the fuss about?

C’mon. So what if a radio personality spits out something that really wasn’t appropriate in terms of context and uttered poorly-chosen words? You know that his comments would be more aptly served in a bar, with its denizens salting down peanuts and drinking frothy and alcoholic beverages. And, it wouldn’t matter if the bar were full of whites or blacks, because somewhere, somebody would make that comment, anyway, and people would’ve laughed.

But, the Rutgers women’s basketball team deserved better applause and especially something that wouldn’t ruin their moment in history. Nobody deserves what the Rutgers team must be enduring now — their shining light of glory overshadowed by controversy. It really is too bad that the women’s team is being delegated to “last week’s” news, now that Imus and Sharpton are butting heads.

I don’t know that I agree Imus should resign or be fired, either. I mean, what he said was stupid, but people do lots of things stupidly to achieve fame, fortune, or whatever inadequacies they have to fulfill. I think American Idol is a ridiculously stupid show, but then again, I’m clinically deaf, so what do I care about people who sing karaoke like Vegas impersonators? But, Imus didn’t do a stupid thing on a stupid karaoke show. He simply and dumbly picked the wrong phrase at the worst of possible times:

“Those nappy-haired ho’s.”

But instead of allowing Imus’ stupidity die a quick death, black politicians — those that Walter Williams calls “black hustlers” such as Sharpton — have seized the opportunity to advance their political cause. Nothing more and nothing less. Like a termite nest swarming with ants, the media has been plagued with calls by Black Right leaders shaming America into believing that the only good thing to do was to have Imus fired or have his resignation provide evidence that somehow, America can make things right.

Except that Sharpton and others wanted to overshadow Rutgers’ accomplishments by glorifying Imus’ stupidity, and now the women’s team must surely be feeling like their moment in history may somehow be tainted by a controversy. And, thanks to Sharpton, the whole issue is now a politically motivated race issue.

What Sharpton and others should’ve done was allow the free market to correct Imus and his stupidity. I mean, as distasteful Paris Hilton might be to most people, she sells because people pay attention to her, no matter how stupid or ugly they might think she is. Imus uses the same mechanism, and like Hilton, is subjected to the laws of free market supply and demand.

If people listening to a radio show are offended by a radio jock’s comments, chances are they won’t listen to him again, anyway. And, if you offend enough people, you just might not have enough of an audience to warrant the existence of a radio show. But, people like Sharpton alternatively live and thrive in promoting people like Imus and their mistakes, and so the cycle continues once again as people are told to be offended, how to be offended, and who should be especially offended: the only way to make things right is to have the offending person’s head on a platter.

When I was a young boy, my father took me to see the movie The Last Temptation of Christ. Prior to watching it, my father explained that there was much controversy surrounded the movie, and that the only reason he wanted to see it was to understand what the fuss was about. After the show, we both agreed that the movie was a waste of time, unworthy of all the hype. My father, a scientist at heart, would later tell me that the movie made lots of money because of the hype, to which I remarked that it sounded like a stupid way to make money.

Anyway, if Imus should be fired for his racially insensitive comments, then Sharpton ought to be banned from the public eye permanently for his racially insensitive comments. Imus’ comments alone would be worthy of a sea of boos cascading throughout America. I don’t think it was racially motivated, and I know it might’ve been insensitive to many, especially blacks, but Sharpton is guilty as much as Imus for being racially insensitive.

Sharpton doesn’t believe in tolerance. Sharpton isn’t interested in tolerance at all. Tolerating another person means to tolerate their views, however different you might think they are. Sharpton and others all agree that Imus is a good man, but a crime was committed and someone has to pay for it. I’m not saying that Sharpton merely needs to absolve Imus of his sins; I’m saying Sharpton only wants one thing: vengeance. Perhaps Sharpton really should be accepting Imus’ apologies and leave the issues for the public to decide. It’s no shock that Imus has said offensive things a time or two in his colorful past, but then again, that’s Imus’ chosen profession. Who are we to judge him for providing for his family, just like Sharpton does?

Both use the media and public to advance their objectives; both are political hot commodities at different intervals; both see the ebb and wane of their ability to reach out to the public. Both are probably mirror images of one another, even if they use completely different mechanisms. Shame on Don Imus for his stupidity. Shame on Al Sharpton for being a political pimp.

If Don Imus goes, then Al Sharpton must, too.

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About Paotie

  • Bailey Houston

    I strongly disagree with the comments made here. All “unfortunate”, “insensitive” and “inopportune comments” means is “We all know its true, but we admit he should not have said it.” The fact is he was wrong. I disagree that Al Sharpton should be fired. To me, that’s just taking the emphasis off of what Imus said and placing blame on someone who does not deserve it at all. Imus used longstanding racist comments such as “Nappy headed” “Hos” and “Rough girls”. And apologizing after countless previous racist comments and, lets be honest, only apologizing because he wants to keep his job, and not because he truly does not believe in what he has said, is not good enough. And he does not have to revert to racist comments in order to provide for his family.

  • G. Chell

    Sharpton and Imus can be compared on equal footing if the former also has a syndicated radio and TV show. Otherwise, there is no comparison between the two!!

  • moonraven

    I think Imus should be lynched.

    I will even donate the noose.

  • MBD

    Al Sharpton: Not one to cast stones…

    In 1987, black teenager Tawana Brawley claimed that six white law enforcement officers had abducted and raped her, scrawled racial insults on her body and smeared her with feces. Miss Brawley refused to speak with authorities or the media, but Sharpton and her other advisers were soon making wild claims. Sharpton compared then-state Attorney General Robert Abrams, a Jew, to Adolf Hitler. All three linked then-Gov. Mario Cuomo to organized crime and the Ku Klux Klan.

    Within a year, a grand jury announced the story was a hoax and specifically cleared the defendants, who sued Sharpton and the other 2 advisers for defamation.

    Sharpton’s involvement is similar to George Bush and the Iraqi uranium purchase forgeries — it’s unclear if he was actively involved in fraud, or just recklessly willing to use information he knew was very shaky to make his political point.

    Following the Crown Heights riot of 1991, and a 1995 arson attack on a Harlem jeweler that resulted in 8 deaths, Sharpton made remarks about the “white interlopers”.

    What is the pot now calling the kettle?

  • Tom


    The man prays for the very thing he supposedly abhors! Racism! Yes Racism! Without it Sharpton would be irrelevant and would no longer be able to prosper over others misfortunes.

    Reverand Al, doesn’t care about blacks; its all about using an issue to get attention to line his pockets!

    It is sad for black people that Al Sharpton is black!

    I really wish black people would stand up and disavow him! Sad to say, when I hear his hypocriscy I start to resent a race of people, which I know is wrong.


  • First I’ve heard of this story. I swear I would have heard it on the news by now.

  • Honestly, I thought Imus retired. I had no idea he was even on the radio anymore until his happened. Sounds like he hasn’t learned much in all his years behind the microphone.

  • Do you have a daughter? How would you like someone to call your daughter a “nappy head ho”. Forgot about Al Sharpton, stick to the issue. You are shifting blame that is all you are doing.

  • James T. Herman

    Sharpton is still rabble rousing?
    Gee and now he attacks a humanitarian like Imus?

    I wonder what “Reverand” Al ever did that did not personally benefit him.

    Oh well, if people support him then they should be doomed with the convicted liar (re: Brawley) 345k jury descion in libel award.

    Oh well, certain people and groups just never progress.

  • Depressed

    Poor Martin Luther King Jr. he must be turning over in his grave when he hears Sharpton and Jackson try to speak!
    Let them fire Imus or censor him……This will only stoke resentment!
    This is between Imus and the people (Rutgers girls basketball team) that he insulted, not that fat bigoted opportunist.
    Sharpton, please go away! Please!

  • RJ

    The funny thing is, Imus was (intentionally or unintentionally, I am not sure) mocking urban Black culture by calling these women “nappy-headed hoes.”

    I mean, does anyone really believe Imus talks this way in his regular life? Of course not! He picked up this sort of vile slang from the “Hip-Hop culture” that is so ubiquitous nowadays.

    Some millionaire rapper (and former gang-member with a rap-sheet a mile long, no doubt) could call them “nappy-headed hoes” all day long, and he wouldn’t be criticized by the MSM or Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. He’s just gonna sell some albums and make some money, while poisoning the minds of our young people.

    But if some White “cracker” like Don Imus makes a stupid off-hand remark, he’s to be sent to the gallows by none other than Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, both of whom are renowned (and wealthy) “civil rights activists” who have a history of making anti-Semitic and racist remarks. In Al Sharpton’s case, his vitriol has actually led to innocent people dying!

    Personally, I don’t like Don Imus. He’s not funny, not nice, and probably should retire sometime soon for everyone’s benefit. But this whole “shocking national scandal” thing has been quite overdone, thank you very much.

  • RJ

    “Sharpton and Imus can be compared on equal footing if the former also has a syndicated radio and TV show.”

    Sharpton certainly does have a syndicated radio show…where do you think he interviewed Imus???

  • RJ

    I think Imus should be lynched.

    I will even donate the noose.

    You’re always the voice of reason, moonraven…

  • Dan

    As much as I like to see liberals eat their own, it’s still depressing to see these double standards played out.

    It was a crude loutish remark. That’s all.

  • sick and tired

    sharpton has made a career out of spreading hatred and racism. it’s time someone shuts him up for good. He has done more to spread racism than the KKK ever thought of. He and jesse jackson should share the same rope and be placed in the same box. The world will be a better place.

  • Agreed! Why should Don Imus apologize to Al Sharpton?

  • Arch Conservative

    I don’t recall Sharpton or any other liberals crying racism when Hillary said “ghandi owned a gas station”, when Joe Biden said “you need an indian accent when you go into a 711” when liberals called Michael Steel, a black republican from MD, Oreo cookie and little black sambo, or when Ray Nagin called for a “chocolate city.”

    The fact is that there is a huge double standard with what white liberals and blacks are allowed to say about race compared to what everyone else is allowed to say.

    Al Sharpton is much more harmful to American race relations than Don Imus could ever hope to be.

    If all of the so called tolerant liberals are not going to be held accountable for the questionable remarks the make regarding race then why should Don Imus be?

  • Chris

    Al Sharpton plainly hates white people and clearly makes money promoting racism against whites. Please boycott any show that has a racists like Al Sharpton. White people need to form a group as Al Sharpton has and fight back – or we will continue to lose rights, jobs and neighborhoods to people like Al Sharpton. The Al Sharptons of the world are creating a whole white underclass based on his racism of giving to “brothers”(ex. diversity, affirmative action).
    If the “brother” gets the job, I guess a white man is now out of a job. This is happening countrywide. Racial extortion. Plain and simple.

  • quckqn

    You guys are nuts! You’re basically saying you think it’s okay to denigrate a race. Imagine if you heard white south africans were constantly discriminated against and called “pasty faced ghosts” on tv, radio, and in the mainstream. Wouldn’t you feel sorry for the white people in south africa? Wouldn’t you think something’s wrong with south africa? Would you choose to immigrate to south africa to be a white minority who can be sure to be called a “pasty faced ghost” by south african society?

    Seriously, the time will come when white people are a discriminated against minority worldwide (they currently are in Japan). Your insensitivity will come back to haunt you.

  • JustOneMan


    “The only people who care about race are racists” JOM

  • guez

    I think Sharpton should definitely be fired from his position as anchor of Imus in the morning.

  • anona

    This book must go too! It is creating racist children!! Oh my, Nappy Hair!!

  • The Haze

    Al Sharpton is a race pimp. Imus is a repeat offender. neither deserve the attention. a definite double standard exsists and moonraven has a knot in her rope that needs loosening.who shall be the first to cast a stone?

  • Courtney

    Clearly you are not black. And clearly you know very little about race relations. What Imus said was not just some stupid, ill timed comment, but a blantant racial slur. By ignoring it we are allowing ignorance to flurish in our country. Truth be told if Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson didn’t stand up – someone else would have because it is inherently wrong and should not be tolerated. He may not fully understand the implications of what he said or even what it totally meant, however, clearly it was a racialized comment which degrades African-Americans. Even if there was no Al Sharpton pointing out racial slurs and injustices in our world, let it be know that racism is alive and well in the United States and you my friend, proved it with your blog. Being ignorant and staying silent is just as oppressing as full force hatred.

  • The Haze

    Clearly you are not black and know nothing of race relations. it was stupid and ill-timed,but a racial slur? listen to it in it’s context. he was talking out of his ass! Ignorance flourishes in “our” country everyday.did you stand up when the Tawana Brawley incident came to light? I don’t remember you protesting against Al and the boys.even if there was no Al Sharpton around to point these things out there would still be …..you. and how do you sleep at night?

  • Brittany

    Imus was DEAD wrong! His comments were as serious as a heart attack. Should he be fired? No. He should be forgiven but we shall NEVER forget. Sharpton is the voice of African American people, he says what WE want to say but don’t hold the VOICE to get it heard. His comments have never been a problem before so they shouldn’t be NOW!

  • pam

    If the Rev Al Sharpton had his way he’d tar and feather Imus. And he calls himself a man of the cloth…..I don’t think so. Be careful Al for the lord knows what’s in your heart and so far it isn’t looking very good.

  • GetyourfactsStraight

    Yo, The Last Temptation of Christ made only 8.5 million dollars and its widest release was 123 theaters. So I wonder if you even saw the film at all if it was in so few theaters. Or perhaps you are one of many who never saw the film and dismissed it without ever seeing it. I doubt it made more money than it cost to make as many films cost tens of millions to make. So you father was wrong. The controversy hurt the film.
    The LTC was an arthouse film and was never designed to be a blockbluster like say The Passion of the Christ which was released in 3,408 theaters and made over $611 million. It’s budget was $30 million. The Passion was a film with anti-Semitic tones especially in the scene where Judas is stoned by demon-like children and the devil follows him throughout the movie. These scenes do not exist in the Bible. And the anti-semitic tones are made more obvious by Mel Gibson’s drunken tirade.

    Perhaps you should have used that film for your comparison not a film that attempts to show Jesus as man and human being with doubts like the Last Temptation of Christ.

  • MCH

    “But this whole “shocking national scandal” thing has been quite overdone, thank you very much.”
    – RJ Elliott

    I view it about the same level as someone who would make fun of the size of Elizabeth Edwards’ rear end.

  • Kerry

    Were Imus’s comments derogatory and insulting? Yes! Were they racist? Well, let’s analyze some things. If Imus had said the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders were a bunch of blonde headed bimbo whores, would that have been racist? I don’t think anyone would have thought so. They would probably have thought it was derogatory and insulting. What if Al Sharpton had said the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders were a bunch of blonde headed bimbo whores? I doubt anyone would have made a big deal that it was racist.

    What is the difference? Was it because a white man said it about black women? Was it because the white man used black vernacular to make his comment? What if he had called them kinky headed whores instead? Would that change your opinion?

    Can a white person say anything derogatory about a black person without it being racist? Or is it that Al Sharpton ALWAYS makes it about race?

  • Bob

    Al Sharpton = Don King

  • Clavos

    I view it about the same level as someone who would make fun of the size of Elizabeth Edwards’ rear end.

    You’re kidding, right, emmy?

    You’ve never made fun of the size of a woman’s ass?

    What are you, a Tibetan monk?

  • brent

    It’s truly pathetic the way the media is able to instigate racial unrest on a slow news day.Anyone,regardless of ethnicity,Who has had the misfortune to not be able to find their remote while they woke up with it still on MSNBC realises this guy is a douchebag.It must be a local thing in the D.C. area but I dont think anyone else finds this guy entertaining,or values his stupid off the cuff remarks.

  • Some of you just don’t get it.

    “In 1983, 50 corporations controlled the vast majority of all news media in the U.S.

    …In 2004, Bagdikian’s revised and expanded book, The New Media Monopoly, shows that only 5 huge corporations — Time Warner, Disney, Murdoch’s News Corporation, Bertelsmann of Germany, and Viacom (formerly CBS) — now
    control most of the media industry in the U.S.
    General Electric’s NBC is a close sixth.”

    In other words, Six WHITE MEN are the FINAL WORD on almost EVERYTHING you see and hear on television and commercial radio. They are capitalist, and the most desired advertising demographic is 25-54 year old whites, particularly white males.

    Ask yourself a question. If white males irrefutably control the media, and the most desired advertising demographic are white males, how does Reverend Al Sharpton garner so much media coverage?

    Because he’s good at what he does…perhaps the best. He both draws attention to stories and issues that white males in charge have little interest in covering (.ie, African-American victimization, police brutality, institutional racism) and draws the ire of the same white males in the most desired advertising demographic.

    You want to sell papers? Put Al’s picture on the front page. You want viewers or listeners to tune in? Tease some angry white talk show host yelling at Al. Works every time like moths to a flame.

    Al Sharpton is the siren… the alarm bell for those who would otherwise be ignored, and he’s the best “heel” that white media producers and editors could have in their pro wrasslin’ style of “confrontational info-tainment.” He cuts both ways.

    Oh sure, there are probably MILLIONS of African-Americans who are upset with what Don Imus had to say, not to mention the Rutgers Lady Knights Basketball team, but you know what? After that press conference today, you just can’t get mad at them (though Brit Hume’s crew on Fox tried.) These are women with dignity, grace, eloquence and bright futures who don’t follow the conservative media stereotype of what black women are supposed to be like. In other words…the Rutgers women aren’t “marketable enough” to the prime demographic.

    And yes, there are plenty of black pundits, scribes, professors and journalists on the air for commentary–but they really don’t fit the stereotype either.

    It’s about Al. Call him what you like, but I’m a conscious black man. I know the history of this country regarding race, and the reality of race today in this society. If Al Sharpton wasn’t around, we’d invent one, and he’d be the one I’d call when it’s my turn on the block.


  • Marah

    It is impossible to compare the Rev. Al Sharpton to Mr. Imus. It would wrong if a black man or woman made the same statement. It is in no way form or fashion a compliment. Certain physical attributes are strictly in reference to the African American community such as “nappy hair”. Therefore the comment was strictly racist and disrespectful.

  • J.J. Hunsecker

    “I doubt it made more money than it cost to make as many films cost tens of millions to make.”

    GetyourfactsStraight, you should get your facts straight. Imdb and Wikipedia list the film’s budget at around 7 mil and was made in 1987-88.

  • Well, I just watched the video on YouTube. I’ve always thought Imus was a dickhead and this certainly confirms it. He ought to apologize in public at a Rutgers womens basketball game.

    It’s probably unrealistic to expect him to be fired or to resign, unless he doesn’t apologize and allows this to drag on and on.

    Sharpton’s just being opportunistic. The issue would get plenty of attention without him volunteering as spokesman.


  • JustOneMan

    News Flash…

    Rutgers Womens Basketball Team signs BIG movie deal with Disney – “Revenge of the Nappy Headed Ho’s”


  • Mike White

    I whole heartedly agree with the comments made in the original post. Al Sharpton could not survive without people like Don Imus. Should Mr. Imus have made the comment? NO!! But then again, taken in context (which many refuse to do), it really wasn’t worth all of the media time spent covering this. Blacks in this country refer to each other using this terminology everyday and we don’t hear from Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.

    Let the Imus listeners determine his fate. As previously mentioned, if Imus listeners are as irrate about the comment as Sharpton wants everyone to believe…….the Imus show will not survive and life will go on. I doubt that will happen. The reason being, Americans without an agenda have proven time and time again they are able to forgive and forget. Sharpton and Jackson should look deep into their own culture and work on curbing such terms being used by anyone (especially Black Americans). As pointed out on the “Today” show this morning, there is a double standard in today’s society.

  • Based on the fact that they listen to Imus on a daily basis my guess is that his listeners aren’t nearly as bright as Sharpton gives them credit for being.


  • Maurice

    These last few comments are right on the money. Imus is an idiot with many idiot followers.

    Makes me think of Bob and Tom and all those sophisticated NASCAR fans of theirs.

  • Clavos


    Interesting analysis, with lots of food for thought.

    One thing occurred to me. You say:

    You want to sell papers? Put Al’s picture on the front page. You want viewers or listeners to tune in? Tease some angry white talk show host yelling at Al. Works every time like moths to a flame.

    Seems like there’s a pretty good symbiotic relationship between Mr. Sharpton and the media moguls here.

    I wonder if it’s deeper than what is apparent on the surface?

    Is there a financial aspect to it? Since Sharpton sells papers/air time for them, are the moguls paying him?

  • Zedd


    What does Al Sharpton have to do with Imus calling young Black women ho’s?

    The free market allows for what is being requested. If your product sucks, you get to loose your business. Imus is the product.

    What makes this particularly offensive is that these young ladies are no less attractive than any other young ladies including those of the other team. Actually there are some cute young ladies on that team. Imus just felt the liberty to SAY what he said because these were Black women and it would be acceptable and funny, he thought, to call young Black ladies HO’S.

  • God Almighty! I have no problem with them if they fire Imus at this point, as long as they promise that doing so will result in my NEVER HEARING HIS NAME AGAIN. EVER.

    I’ve heard enough about him in the past 48 hours to cover a lifetime.

    I didn’t give a shit at all about him beforehand (except when he called Joe Barton a “Congressional dirtbag,” because it’s true), but now I want his name forever erased from any place that I might someday see or hear it. If that means firing him, suspending him, or giving him a new $30 billion contract, so be it.

  • The Haze

    Cobra – We the people have “THE FINAL WORD”. If we don’t look or listen, they will not try to sell. Trying to explain that to a capitalistic society of stepford wives is tough. America has been pampered for a long time and our vanity and ignorance will be our death knell.The media (those six white guys?)knows how to manipulate the masses on all ends of the rainbow,black,white,brown,call it how you see it,but from where I’m sittin’ it’s the color of money. Correct me if I’m wrong here,but wasn’t there a law about subliminal messages in advertisement? Has anyone seen commercials lately? Are they playing close to the edge? Rev. Al sells. bottom line. your skin color means nothing to a true capitalist.When an opportunity arises,do you look at the true color of the opportunity first. We our the power not them. when we learn this,things will change.

  • MCH

    “You’re kidding, right, emmy? You’ve never made fun of the size of a woman’s ass? What are you, a Tibetan monk?”
    – Clavos

    So Clavvy, would it be OK then if Bobby (RJ) Elliott made fun of the size of your wife’s ass, instead of Elizabeth Edwards?

  • Clavos

    Why not? I do-kid her all the time…and some of her friends, too.

    What’s the big deal?

  • JustOneMan

    Where was the human outcry when Hillary imatated blacks in one of her campaign rallyes?

    Didnt say something like…
    “If yall vote for me..das right…I gonna make sho all you nappy headed ho’s have a place in my administration…das right and right on!”


  • Arch Conservative

    “Sharpton is the voice of African American people, he says what WE want to say but don’t hold the VOICE to get it heard”

    So Al was speaking for all black people when he said “If the jews want to get it on, then they can pin back their yamikas and come over to my house.” ?

    Apparently it’s not ok to have racist attitudes toward blacks but it is OK to be a raving anti-semite.

  • Paotie

    Zedd ..

    If most of the women on the Rutgers team were white, it wouldn’t be all that inconceivable that Imus would’ve spat out something like, “those blonde bimbos” and the public outcry would’ve been appropriately contextual with regard to Imus’ stupidity.

    But Sharpton took it to the next level simply because Sharpton’s a political h.u.s.t.l.e.r. and pimp and now the issue is on race rather than Imus’ stupidity.

    Anyway, if you’re offended by Imus, it’s only because you choose to be offended. You can also choose to see the context that it was placed in, and either chuckle at Imus’ stupidity, or become embroiled in Sharpton’s own idiotic rage.

    The choice was yours and always will be as long as we live in a democracy. You believe in God; I don’t. We can laugh and make jokes about your being nuts to believe in God (as per one of your comments to Ruvy in the Finklestein article); or we can laugh at my choice to be atheist.

    Or we can wage war until we’re blue in the face, or dead.

    Oddly, I attended a Monsters of Hip Hop dance showcase in Denver, and among the apparel sold was a brand called, “Nappy Tabs.” Also, if I remember correctly, there used to be a method to diapering tots, and part of the procedure was to use “nappy tabs.”

    I have a sister-in-law who’s son is black and she loves to tell him, “go brush your naps.”

    Are you going to be offended, too? The part Imus said, “ho’s” was contextually inappropriate on the same level as calling white chicks, “bimbos.” Nothing more or less.

    (I’m sure a feminist somewhere was offended by that last paragraph.)



  • BMW

    Interestingly enough I didn’t see this blog or any of the posters here similarly comment on the calls to fire Isaiah Washington, one of the stars of Grey’s Anatomy, after Golden Globe awards when he was publicly taken down by gay rights groups for insisting he DID NOT use a gay slur. Was that free speech too? After all, he was only denying ever using the word, not deliberatelly calling someone hateful names, like Imus did. But the writer was strangely silent about the need for more “tolerance” then.

    The fact that Imus used not one, not two, but three ethnic slurs to describe the Rutgers team (he not only called them “prostitutes” and made disparaging, offensive remarks about their hair but also went on to call them “jigaboos” — a fact many news sources conveniently forget to mention). There is no excuse for this and any public figure who resorts to using such vicious ethnic slurs on-the-air should be fired. PERIOD.

    While it may be true that Jackson used an ethnic slur in the 80s, it was said as part of a *private conversation,* not during a speech, or broadcast on a television (or radio) show or news commentary. While the comments are equally deplorable, it most certainly is not the same as using a radio program or any other broadcast forum to spew ethnic insults. Comparing Imus to rap artists is equally nonsense. It’s just as offensive to assume these women wouldn’t be equally angered and taken aback by a black hip hop artists making the same charges against them in a public forum. Unfortunately if a blond calls another blond ditsy, it doesn’t have the same sting as those same words uttered by a brunette. The fact that Imus is neither black nor a hip hop artist makes his words that much more racist in scope.

    I’m most appalled by the author’s arrogance stating the same words said in a bar would have been laughable. The same words said in a bar would have been equally repugnant and meritous of a punch in the mouth.

    Unfortunately I thought we were long past the days when treating and referring to all black women as prostitutes was considered an acceptable, normal thing to do. Obviously judging from these comments I was sadly mistaken.

  • Paotie

    BMW –

    I despise Grey’s Anatomy, so I don’t watch it. If it’s true that Washington didn’t utter a homosexual slur, and homosexual groups called for his resignation or termination from the program, then that goes to show the point that Sharpton operates in the same medium as the homosexuals that you say are unfairly targeting Washington.

    If hip hop and gangsta artists continually use such “vicious ethnic slurs,” even to others within the same ethnic group, why do you excuse them? Imus did a stupid thing – nobody’s denying that, but you’re following Sharpton and the homosexual groups that you loathe blindly.

    It’s about context. The word, “ho” is ubiquitous to American culture (unfortunately). It’s not necessarily an ethnic slur. Imus, it could easily be argued, took the hip hop genre too far and inappropriately with regard to context. That doesn’t make him or his comments racist. It just makes him look like a desperate PR fool.

    Finally, try to look at BET, MTV and VH-1 videos: oddly enough, many of the videos portray women as being prostitutes, who’s sole purpose in life are to be pimps’ “bitches.”

    Go picket BET, MTV, VH-1.



  • moonraven


    When have you–or any other idiot on ths site–had a RATIONAL thought?

    Just imitating you, Humanitarian Hunchback.

  • #26 – His comments have never been a problem before so they shouldn’t be NOW!

    What? Please.

    Sharpton is an opportunist. End of story. Dante has a place in hell for him.

    Imus said something stupid. He doesn’t have to get fired. He will meet with Rutgers. Let them work it out. Sharpton is only worsening things. Move on.

    Freedom of speech entails everything: good, ugly and stupid. The market and the people will determine his fate. Communism is for suckers.

  • Bisty

    Things That Al Sharpton Has Said:

    1987: Sharpton spreads the incendiary Tawana Brawley hoax, insisting heatedly that a 15-year-old black girl was abducted, raped, and smeared with feces by a group of white men. He singles out Steve Pagones, a young prosecutor. Pagones is wholly innocent — the crime never occurred — but Sharpton taunts him: “If we’re lying, sue us, so we can . . . prove you did it.” Pagones does sue, and eventually wins a $345,000 verdict for defamation. To this day, Sharpton refuses to recant his unspeakable slander or to apologize for his role in the odious affair.

    1991: A Hasidic Jewish driver in Brooklyn’s Crown Heights section accidentally kills Gavin Cato, a 7-year-old black child, and antisemitic riots erupt. Sharpton races to pour gasoline on the fire. At Gavin’s funeral he rails against the “diamond merchants” — code for Jews — with “the blood of innocent babies” on their hands. He mobilizes hundreds of demonstrators to march through the Jewish neighborhood, chanting, “No justice, no peace.” A rabbinical student, Yankel Rosenbaum, is surrounded by a mob shouting “Kill the Jews!” and stabbed to death.

    1995: When the United House of Prayer, a large black landlord in Harlem, raises the rent on Freddy’s Fashion Mart, Freddy’s white Jewish owner is forced to raise the rent on his subtenant, a black-owned music store. A landlord-tenant dispute ensues; Sharpton uses it to incite racial hatred. “We will not stand by,” he warns malignantly, “and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business.” Sharpton’s National Action Network sets up picket lines; customers going into Freddy’s are spat on and cursed as “traitors” and “Uncle Toms.” Some protesters shout, “Burn down the Jew store!” and simulate striking a match. “We’re going to see that this cracker suffers,” says Sharpton’s colleague Morris Powell. On Dec. 8, one of the protesters bursts into Freddy’s, shoots four employees point-blank, then sets the store on fire. Seven employees die in the inferno.

    Who is Al Sharpton to judge what anyone says – he’s a racist himself.

  • MCH

    “Why not? I do-kid her all the time…and some of her friends, too. What’s the big deal?”
    – Clavos

    Well, apparently BC’s editors felt it was a big deal, because at the time they deleted Bobby’s comment that “Elizabeth Edwards has a fat ass.”

  • When have you–or any other idiot on ths site–had a RATIONAL thought?

    If somebody had, MR, how would you know? If your contributions to BC’s threads are any indication, you’ve never had a rational thought in your life. How would you even know what one looked like?

  • Clavos

    Well, emmy, I didn’t see the context of the editorial deletion, so I won’t comment on it.

    I WILL reiterate, however, that I see no harm in it; especially when the subject is a public figure like Elizabeth Edwards.

    Do you have a problem hearing someone say (or write) that Rush Limbaugh has a fat belly?

    I didn’t think so.

  • moonraven



    You just posted precisely the kind of infantile comment that exactly proves my point.

  • You know, it’s probably true, MR, that I took the bait and made an infantile comment.

    But, um, how does my infantile comment exactly prove your point that NOBODY on this site has EVER had a rational thought?

  • BMW

    I have yet to hear a rapper call anyone a ‘nappy-headed jigaboo.’ Imus may as well have gone ahead and used the other “N” word, by virtue of using these two vile, ugly, and (blatantly racist) terms alone.

    I make no excuses for rappers nor the industry that would like to make us believe their genre is the norm and using words like “b*tches” and “ho’s” is okay. It isn’t. But this blurs the point.

    I’m particularly incredulous that you continue to focus on just one small part of his racist statement — the fact he called them “ho’s.” If only it were so simple. To me, while indeed sexist, that barely scratches the surface of the racism of what he said or of the viciousness, since it’s the ‘nappy-headed’ part of the sentence that holds the real venom. To me, that fact alone is illustrative of your naiveté.

    My guess is you’re too young to know the history behind the other words. Not surprising since you probably were never on the receiving end of such comments or the hatred that spurs them.

    Calling someone ‘nappy-headed’ and using the ‘N” word are virtually synonymous in the experience of any black person who has been targeted racially in this country or who knows anything about the history of racism against blacks in the U.S. And then, to make matters worse, Imus used term “jigaboo” too? Why not just go through all the other racist slurs used in this country to describe blacks? Why not add pick-a-ninny? Jungle-bunny? Why not go ahead and call them animals to boot?

    In terms of, “ho,” that one particular word that you seem find okay to use simply by virtue of its frequency in music, who cares that black women were repeatedly raped by their masters in slavery? According to your argument, what matters is today black rappers (who have no systematic history of literally forcibly and violently raping black women) tend to use that term in music. Consequently that automatically makes it okay for men in power to use it too? Um….I think not.

    The term strikes at the core of historic and racist portrayals of black men as sexual animals and black women as licentious, loose, easy and yes, as “ho’s.”

    By the way you might notice black leaders have come out against its use in music too, and yes BET, MTV and VH-1 are indeed frequent targets of concern.

  • JW

    Targets of concern?….what a joke.

    You gotta be nappy headed.

  • Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Imus is being crucified for using the term “nappy headed ho”, meanwhile since this incident occured you cannot turn on th TV without hearing others repeat it?

  • Paotie

    BMW ..

    You’re expanding the Imus/Sharpton issue to include references to “N” words. Imus didn’t say that.

    Conversely, the word, “niggah” is prevalent in American society, even if you think that blacks in this country have a right to monopolize that word. But, you can’t sit there and say that Imus was racist simply because he did everything BUT say the “N” word. That shows Imus knows that you’ll criticize him for being racist by using the “N” word.

    His mistake was using other words that are contemporary in nature within American society itself. Would it shock the hell out of you if every Black man in American referred to other Blacks as “niggahs”, and that eventually, a White man who reads about “niggahs” and sees movies about “niggahs” (Training Day with Denzel Washington comes to mind), would utter the word, “niggah” – by accident? Would it shock the hell out of you that, in his attempt to continue his profession of being a “shock jock” that he would use a word that is already commonplace within American Black society? Even if I subscribed to your premise, we could easily say that Imus inappropriately used the wrong context.

    “You ma niggah” is a phrase that Denzel Washington used with impunity in the movie, Training Day. Surely, you’ve got to see the context of that movie and the context that Imus used.

    It’s just for entertainment. Sharpton is about Hate.

    Don’t confuse the two.



  • moonraven


    After making the infantile comment that you made I would like YOU to now to the LOGICAL and RATIONAL thing and refute what I said.

  • MCH

    “I WILL reiterate, however, that I see no harm in it; especially when the subject is a public figure like Elizabeth Edwards. Do you have a problem hearing someone say (or write) that Rush Limbaugh has a fat belly? I didn’t think so.”
    – Clavvy

    The difference being, of course, that Elizabeth Edward’s only crime is that she’s a Democrat; whereas Lardbaugh has made a fortune attacking people, ie:

    **telling a black caller to “call me back after you take the bone out of your nose”;
    **stating that “Donovan McNabb is overrated because he’s black”;
    **comparing 14-year old Chelsea Clinton to a pet dog;
    **joking that “Mary Jo Copechnee could’ve used a pair of water-wings”;
    **playing the song “Fire, I bid you to burn” on his program during the climax of the Branch Davidians-ATF fiasco in Waco;
    **claiming that the National Organization for Women was “just a bunch of ugly lesbians”;
    **calling Bill Clinton a “draft-dodger,” in spite of the fact that he (Lardbaugh) dodged the draft by receiving a medical deferment for a pimple on his ass;
    etc., etc., etc….

  • James

    I disagree with the point made that the Imus comments were unfortunate or just stupid. It’s not that simple. Secondly, Imus did not even take this matter seriously until enough people started screaming for his head. Imus originally told everyone to shut up and forget about it. If not for the likes of Sharpton, Jackson, etc. this would be a dead issue. Imus’ comments point to a deeper issue in America. Degrading Black women is perfectly fine. As a radio host with a fan base of millions, Imus has a responsibility to be better than that. If Rutger’s women’s basketball team were primarily white does Imus call them a bunch a stringy haired hoes? Maybe, Maybe not. But my guess is, that there would be a similar outcry from the feminist groups. Overall, Imus went to far and its time for people like Imus to get taken to task.

  • Refute what you said about how NOBODY on this site has EVER had a rational thought?

    You’d surely agree, then, that all I have to do is provide evidence of ONE person on this site having ONE rational thought?

    Okay. In the above article, Paotie says,

    “Nobody deserves what the Rutgers team must be enduring now — their shining light of glory overshadowed by controversy.”

    That is a rational thought.

  • Here’s another, even MORE reational thought in the above article.

    “If people listening to a radio show are offended by a radio jock’s comments, chances are they won’t listen to him again, anyway.”

    A better example. Less of an opinion, more of an educated guess.

  • Clavos

    WOW, emmy!!

    You have REALLY set the non sequitur bar high this time!!

    NONE of Limbaugh’s bad taste comments have any bearing whatever on the issue that ALL public figures forgo the right to privacy when they become public figures; none of them.

    What Limbaugh has or has not said on the air has NOTHING to do with whether making fun of Elizabeth Edwards’ obviously big ass or Limbaugh’s obviously fat belly is inappropriate.

    It’s not a crime that Elizabeth Edwards is a Democrat, it’s not even relevant to the fact she has a big ass. Similarly, it’s not a crime that Limbaugh made all those remarks, and THEY’RE not relevant to the fact that he has a big belly.

    However, I see why you’re offended: she’s a Democrat.

    So here’s one to even the score: Pat Nixon is (or was; is she dead yet?) a frump.

    Feel better now?

  • moonraven

    By what standard?

    In the first case, the statement “No one deserves” does not LOGICALLY follow from the situation. It is a statement of emotional empathy.

    In the second case, again, the conclusion is not logical. If someone were offended by what a commentator said on the radio, given the litigious culture of the US, he would be VERY likely to listen again with the motive of putting a lawsuit against the commentator.

    Rational thoughts have to be logical, Michael.

    The fact that this particular article we are commenting on is not 100% garbage like most of blogcritics’ “articles” does not mean that it is rational or logical–just means that in this case the writer did a slightly better job of culling–from editorials already published in places like the NYT and Boston Globe, instead of the usual CNN or conservative blog sites.

  • In the second case, again, the conclusion is not logical. If someone were offended by what a commentator said on the radio, given the litigious culture of the US, he would be VERY likely to listen again with the motive of putting a lawsuit against the commentator.

    I’m sorry, Moonraven, but you have got that entirely backwards. If someone were offended by a commentator on the radio, the logical thing for them to do would be to stop listening to that commentator. The fact that a certain segment of the population does not behave that way (and it’s a very small, albeit very vocal, segment) does not make it logical.

    It is entirely illogical to expect the majority of people to continue listening to something they do not like.

    It is even MORE illogical to suppose that because a small yet vocal segment of the population DOES continue listening to something they do not like, that the entire population of the U.S. would likely behave in that way (which is your clear implication).

    Unless, of course, you can offer evidence to support your claim and refute Paotie’s (and, by extension, mine), as you asked me to do.

  • smb

    sharpton and imus should both disappear from the public eye. problem solved. as a bonus to close the deal…jesse jackson.

  • moonraven

    Michael, You seem to just want to niggle and whine.

    Something logical is when B UNAVOIDABLY derives from A, and C from B.

    You have presented nothing but your opinion here.

    And from reading what you have written, I think maybe you just do not understand what it means to analyze something from a logical perspective.

    It’s probably a result of all education being political and therefore you just “learned” what the folks at the top wanted you to “learn” to keep the power structure in place.

  • Arch Conservative

    People have called me a caricature on this site a time or two and it is amazing that no one has yet called Moonbat the same.

    She is so one dimensional in her consistent exhibition of anti-American, socialist, class warfare, anti-capitalist, racial demagouging, verbal diareah (I don’t know how to spell the name of the green shit that comes out of your ass so the editors need to implement a spell check cause those red lines are really fucking annoying!)

    People criticize my posts and that’s great but I’d just like to issue a challenge to see who is actually more of a one dimensional, ideological hack, me or Moonbat.

    If anyone cared to examine the past posts of both myself and madame Moonbat they would see that she has never uttered a single kind or positive word about the USA or any of it’s citizens, she’s never failed to inject racism or class warfare into an issue regardless of how completely irrelevant those two issues might be, she’s never failed to place all of the blame for problems in nations outside the USA on the USA.

    I on the other hand have criticized George Bush numerous times regarding spending, the management of the war in Iraq, failing to prevent 911, doing nothing to stem the tide of illegals entering this nation and other things. I have also criticized what was recently the republican leadership i congress.

    It’s about time someone called Moonbat on her bullshit and absolute lack of objectivity and perspective.

  • Zedd


    I think that there is an important element that you and a lot of Whites are missing.

    You see the reference to the Spike Lee movie and the “jigaboo” and “nappy” reference is call back to the Buckwheat, mistral show, jet black, big eyed, wild kinky haired caricature. The girls who were considered beautiful in the movie were light skinned with long straight hair. They looked multi racial. THAT is why it is offensive.

    Off course the “ho” reference is the oversexualized unladylike perception of Black females that has plagued us since we were first encountered in Africa.

    These are college athletes; really hard working academic young, YOUNG ladies. These are someones little girls. Can you imagine someone referring to your daughter on the public airways as a hoer? Why?

    No it’s not a tiny infraction. It’s a terrible miscalculation of today’s world and what is acceptable.

    Your light “Blond bimbo” comment does not have the weight of what Imus said even though it is offensive.

    What is sad is that you think it’s not that big of a deal. You wrote an article about Blacks moving on a month ago. How do we?

    You actually shifted Imus’ horrible and disrespectful comment about a people who have been attacked throughout the history of this nation, and used it to attack an African American. You just don’t get it. SHAME ON YOU!

  • Moonraven, You are terribly confused, and I should have realized sooner where you’re going wrong.

    Instead, I accepted the same faulty premise that you did…way back in comment 71 when you said,

    Rational thoughts have to be logical, Michael.

    That is incorrect. The words “logical” and “rational” are not equivalent.

    An argument that is “Rational” is one that makes use of reason and empirical fact, if not necessarily syllogistic logic.

    For example,

    A) It is cold outside.
    B) I will wear a jacket when I go outside.

    B is not an unavoidable outcome. But it is a rational one.

    Likewise, expecting that people who are offended by a radio commentator will probably simply stop listening to him, is a not an unavoidable conclusion. But it is a rational expectation.

    However, deciding that Don Imus needs to be lynched and that you will provide the noose? Neither rational nor logical….

  • Clavos, Great question on whether Al and the corporate media has a deal or not. I really don’t know, however, in Y2K America, fame, sometimes even INFAMY pays. Al Sharpton sells books, gains lecture fees, etc… Look at Ann Coulter, a lawyer who doesn’t practice law. Exactly what is Ann Coulter’s job title? I still haven’t figured that one out, yet, everytime she fires off another one word book title, you can bet she’s going to say something outrageous and inflammatory, getting her appearances on cable news, with the book jacket in tow.

    Now, to clarify some of the statements up here. Al Sharpton’s been on the record AGAINST rap lyrics and hip-hop violences for YEARS now. Need proof? Just do a google search of Al Sharpton and rap. You’ll find:

    “The Rev. Al Sharpton, upset about violence in rap music, asked the Federal Communications Commission on Thursday to punish artists and radio stations connected with violent acts…

    …Artists connected to such acts should be denied airplay on radio and television for 90 days, he told reporters after meeting with FCC Chairman Kevin Martin and two other commissioners.

    He also urged the agency to fine and review the licenses of radio stations “that encourage a pattern of this, including allowing employees to do on-the-air inciting of violence.”

    USA Today

    Here’s excerpts from Sharpton’s 2002 book, “Al on America”: “This hip-hop culture must use their music, their influence to correct
    what’s wrong, not to continue to perpetuate what’s wrong, not continue
    to promote what’s wrong. They have the power to do that. And if they
    really want to have an impact on society, they must change their focus
    and show America the best of us instead of the worst.

    I went to a hip-hop conference in New York, and one of the main topics
    of discussion was a fight for the right to use bitch and ho in lyrics.
    They wanted the right to call a woman a bitch – something the slave
    master called black women with impunity.

    With all the stuff going on in this world, all they’re worried about
    is being able to call a woman out of her name?! That’s their cause?
    First of all, it’s wrong. But second, it is insulting. These rappers
    and “hip-hop impresarios” weren’t worried about unemployment or the
    financial conditions of those who support their records and made them
    stars. They weren’t worried about the education system that keeps too
    many of their fans and families in poverty. They weren’t worried
    about voting rights. They didn’t have any conferences on any of that.
    There wasn’t one seminar entitled “Economic Empowerment” or “Jobs for
    the 21st Century.”

    No, they want the right to call somebody a ho or a bitch – somebody
    who brought them into this world. As far as I’m concerned, they are
    low-down devious things who aren’t worth the millions of dollars young
    people spend to make them stars…

    …You cannot turn on a television or watch a movie and not see the influence of hip-hop. Even suburban America has been bitten by the hip-hop bug.

    Unfortunately, much of what they’re selling is a fraud. They spew
    hedonism, misogyny, and self-hate. They glorify the prison culture,
    the pimp culture, and drug culture. They tell the young that they’re
    not worthy unless they’re “rocking” Chanel, Gucci, or wearing platinum
    and diamonds. Not only is this message immoral, but it is also flawed. It’s a lie.”


    What, you didn’t know Al Sharpton wrote a book about these things, and made these proposals?

    Why DON’T you know, since it was easy enough for me to find them with a 10 second Google search?


  • People have called me a caricature on this site a time or two and it is amazing that no one has yet called Moonbat the same.

    Are you kidding, Arch? I’ve called her that SEVERAL times. In fact, I’ve actually suggested that she’s the Bizarro-world Arch Conservative, and that the two of you should get together.

  • JustOneMan

    This is a bunch of crap..here are some samples of rap lyrics played on MTV that sharpton said is different,Racisms OK if against whites!!!

    Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha”;
    “Kill d’White People”; –Apache, Apache Ain’t Shit, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.

    “Niggas in the church say: kill whitey all night long. . . . the white man is the devil. . . . the CRIPS and Bloods are soldiers I’m recruiting with no dispute; drive-by shooting on this white genetic mutant. . . . let’s go and kill some rednecks. . . . Menace Clan ain’t afraid. . . . I got the .380; the homies think I’m crazy because I shot a white baby; I said; I said; I said: kill whitey all night long. . . . a nigga dumping on your white ass; fuck this rap shit, nigga, I’m gonna blast. . . . I beat a white boy to the motherfucking ground”;
    “Kill Whitey”; –Menace Clan, Da Hood, Rap-A-Lot Records, Noo Trybe Records, subsidiaries of what was called Thorn EMI and now is called The EMI Group, United Kingdom.

    “A fight, a fight, a nigger and a white, if the nigger don’t win then we all jump in. . . . smoking all [of] America’s white boys”;
    –“A Fight”; Apache, Apache Ain’t Shit, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.


  • moonraven


    I guess the BLACK humor of my first post on this thread escaped you.

    But when you begin to post, rationally, points that are discussible, I will get back to you.

    Trust me.

  • Zedd

    Paotie sed: It just makes him look like a desperate PR fool.

    You see Imus doesn’t just represent himself. He represents the products that sponsor him and the stations that he is on. THEY get to decide if they feel like his PR is good for them. What people are calling for is for the stations and the sponsors to make a decision. Do they support his comments or do they not?

    Again, not sure how Al Sharpton comes in as the bad guy in all of this.

  • Clavos

    NBC just announced Imus id off the air permanently.

  • Zedd

    MBD #4

    How does any of what you said make Al Sharpton guilty of the same thing that Imus is?

    Lets put our thinking caps on then answer these questions for me.

    He was duped by Tuwana Bradley like everyone else was. He was wrong. Ooooo K???? How is that racist???

    What are “white interlopers”? Why is that offensive to you?

  • Stinkey

    We all know that Sharpton and Jackson are the leaders of the black folks in America.

  • Zedd


    Help me. Honestly, what shows have you heard “nappy headed ho” on? Not where you assume you heard it…. Where you actually heard it and who said it? That particular phrase. I am curious.

  • Jim F

    We already all knew Imus was is was an idiot. The thing that astounds me is that all the same people who chastize Imus have no problem with the trash that todays black rappers spew out and call music. Rap has done more to revitalize rascism than any other movement in the last 20 years. Cosby had it right last year when he spoke out about this topic. Bottom line is all these rappers suck the money out of moronic individuals who enjoy their songs, in return they teach the youth of america how to speak in vulgar illiteral slang. Apparently, Sharpton has no issues with that. The word ‘ho’ wasn’t created by a white man so apparently a white man is not allowed to use it, at least according to Rutgers team. What a joke.

  • Arch Conservative

    “You actually shifted Imus’ horrible and disrespectful comment about a people who have been attacked throughout the history of this nation, and used it to attack an African American. You just don’t get it. SHAME ON YOU!”

    No shame on you for you’re the hypocrite hear. Those of us attacking Sharpton will be the first to say that what Imus said was wrong but you can’t bring yourself to comdemn Al Sharpton for all of his racist remarks and actions.


    I’m curious to know if you think it was a racist remark when Ray Nagin said New Orleans was a chocolate city before Katrina and will be a chocolate city after Katrina? Was that racist? If it wasn’t then you would also say a white mayor referring to his city as a vanilla city would also not be racist, right?

  • Zedd

    Michael J. West sed:I’ve heard enough about him in the past 48 hours to cover a lifetime.

    Please don’t overlook our successes. Although hearing Imus’ name may be annoying to you, it also says a lot about where American society is. Just a few years ago, African Americans were being killed and beaten for little of nothing and no one would even consider doing anything about it. An entire town would conspire to cover it up, including the law enforcement. NOW when someone gets too comfy about abusing African Americans, thinking that he will get away with it, it is broadcast day in and day out. That is who we have become. That is something to celebrate. Sorry you are bored with it but don’t miss the good things that make life a parade. Don’t miss a chance to tell your children what just happened. This is momentous and you are missing it because you are bored and annoyed with it. This is more significant than the super bowl or the final four. Its the story of our lives.

    The fact that a Black man can come on TV and demand an apology from a White man is a giant leap from our recent past Michael.

  • Oh that explains everything! Moonraven is into black humour!

    Yes, you have indeed disturbingly made many chuckle.

    Michael J. West: It’s impossible to battle pseudo-sophistry. It’s like a dog chasing his or her own tail.

    About McNabb: Well, Garcia showed him.

  • Zedd


    Does that rap group get to say that on the public air ways? Are they sponsored by Sprint, Staples, Proctor and Gamble or GM.

    Put on your thinking cap.

    The issue is not that there are Whites who hate Blacks and want them dead. We all know that there are and we really don’t care.

    The point is that these sponsors were supporting this man. They aren’t any more because America spoke up.

    Try to focus!

  • Jim F

    The ignorance of many individuals in this country simply has no boundaries. Pick your poison:
    KKK, NAACP, Rappers, Imus, Sharpton, OJ, and so on.

    Education is the only thing that will rid us of all these individuals and organizations with their self annointed agendas. If we are lucky the rappers will at least continue to kill each other off as they have in the past.

    If you purchase ‘ho’ music your not entitled to an opinion on this, because more than likely you are either on welfare, mentally handicapped, or selling drugs (while ruining lives) to survive.

  • Zedd


    No that was not racist. He was responding to Blacks who felt that they were being kicked out of the City and that the Hurricane was being used to remove Blacks and keep them out. He was reassuring them that THAT wont happen.

    He said New Orleans was a Black city before the hurricane and it will be a Black city after the hurricane.

    You really don’t know what racism is do you?

    The comment wasn’t about Black superiority nor did it put Whites down. It was intended to insure that Blacks did not feel disregarded.

    Its important for you to get a good grasp on what racism is.

    The important element in racism is POWER. Powerless people cant be racist. They can be prejudice, mean or hateful but not racist. The term is specific to the POWERFUL (in most cases members of the majority) constructing situations which create or support the oppressive system that is in place.

    You won’t like it but THAT is what racism means. People have taken that term and applied it to everything. It was coined to define that specific phenominon.

    Mentioning someones or your own race in a sentence is not being a racist.

  • JustOneMan

    Zedd…clean the spunk out of yer eyes!

    MTV is regulated by the FCC and these are just a few of their sponsors…where the human outcry…

    Acuvue Brand Contact Lenses, GM, Honda, Toyota, Herbal Essences, JCPenney, Pepsi, Taco Bell and Virgin Mobile USA, McDonald’s, Dell, Apple

    When racism is against whites it doesnt matter! This whole thing looks like a fucking minstrel show of blacks and whites in black face singing Mammy…while trying to make a racist issue about an over the hill DJ that NOBODY listens to!


  • Zedd


    I missed the second part of your question to me. Apologies!

    Yes if a White mayor in this country said that it WOULD be racist unless there was a situation or pattern where Whites in America had been displaced for generations, their land had been stolen from them or gentrification was standard where Whites were being forced from their homes so that people of other races can move in and profit from it.

    Everything has a context. You know our history. Why do you allow your thinking skills to be dulled because of your desire to gloss over our racist reality.

    Don’t act dumb just to be right. It’s never worth it. You loose.

    It’s like a criminal who has committed all sorts of vile crimes saying that its not fair that the little old lady (without a record) down the street is trusted and he is not. If his objection is that “I am not committing a crime at this moment so I should be trusted just like her”, you would think he was insane or an idiot.

    Well, Whites have a VERY strong history in this area. They hold the gold medal Arch. No one can share in the accolade because, well, they just cant. Just like the little old lady. Nothing supports that shared status. I know you know that. I am more curious as to why you pretend not to know this. Could you share that with me?

  • Zedd


    What racist lyrics do you hear on MTV? Not the imagined ones?

  • rob

    Stevie Wonder sang “Looking back on when my best friend was a little nappy headed boy”. All that time I didn’t know that he was insulting his best friend, I for one think we should boycott all Stevie Wonder music.

  • rob

    Oh yeah let’s not forget that The Lady Vols soundly beat Rutgers in the basketball game, uh remember the game that sparked all this.Rocky Top you’ll always be…

  • MR:

    when you begin to post, rationally, points that are discussible, I will get back to you.

    I’ve already done that, sweetie. When you are capable of understanding the meaning of the word “rational,” then of applying that meaning, maybe we can chat.

    Not holding my breath, though.

  • The fact that a Black man can come on TV and demand an apology from a White man is a giant leap from our recent past Michael.

    Yes, Zedd, you’re absolutely right. That’s something to be happy about, to revel in, to mark as progress.

    But that doesn’t mean it can’t be just as obnoxious and overblown as anything else.

  • JustOneMan

    zedd read #79…from songs played on MTV…

    Here are some grammy winnin lyrics
    Three 6 Mafia – Like A Pimp
    When I see you bitch you better have my dough
    Like a pimp
    Reach Back
    Like a pimp
    Slap the Hoe

    let me know when you off to collect my money
    If a nigga can’t get it then a nigga will hunt
    Cause playas like me don’t see nothing funny
    bitch better have my motherfucking money
    black eyes and bruisin up a face I den done it
    to let her know these bonified pimps who run it
    She make a G a night but she told me 200
    but that’s what I get fuckin wit a snow bunny
    I told her like this ask that nigga you be callin
    police found a body that very next morning

    Al Sharpton….wheres the outcry…pimping,beating and killing BLACK ho’s!!!




  • JustOneMan

    Oppps wait…”snowy bunny” oh never mind its not racist hes singing about pimping,beating and killing WHITE ho’s!!!

    Real Grammy Material!!

  • MBD

    If this is a contest of character between Imus and Sharpton, it should be clear who wins hands down.

  • Stinkey

    How did not so sharp sharpton and jessie jack ass jackson become reverns and what church do they preach in on Sunday?

  • Liz

    Yet another episode of The Sharpton Files: More Hackneyed Rhetoric Designed to Maintain or Increase Racial Tension

    Oy gevalt!

  • JustOneMan


    “Oy gevalt!” Are you from himey town?

    Rev. Jesse Jackson

  • Liz

    Well done, JOM!

  • MBD

    “How did not so sharp sharpton and jessie jack ass jackson become reverns and what church do they preach in on Sunday?”

    They don’t preach.

    They play (c)rap music.

  • Clavos

    JOM 101:

    Snow(y) bunny can also be a female coke head.

  • Mike White

    With the crazy decision announced today by MSNBC that they will no longer simulcast the Don Imus show effective immediately……the following should be done by those that believe there is a double standard regarding racism in this country. As black leaders have called for a boycott of companies advertising on the Don Imus show…..we need to call for a boycott of every company that pulls their advertising from the Don Imus show.

    As was clearly pointed out, but avoided by the black leaders appearing on this mornings “Today” show the double standard with regard to racism is clearly evident in today’s society. A black comedian can stand before a large crowd and talk about “nappy-headed ho’s” all night and society thinks nothing of it. So what is the difference between the black comedian and Don Imus……NOTHING!! But now this man faces the possibility of losing his job and ending his charitable contribution to many causes. THIS IS WRONG AND NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED!! Al Sharpton and all of the others that flourish when people like Don Imus make a mistake need to be brought to their knees. The only way this can happen is for us “Crackers” and the sensible members of the black community who are tired of Al and his friends to unite and say “NO” to what is being done to Don Imus.

  • Liz

    By the way, one of the Rutgers team members said that this event has ‘scarred her for life.’ Could it be that the team is milking this just a bit? I’ve heard worse comments on the A train at least twice this week, yet we all seem to be trudging through our lives nonetheless.

    Must be some money in there for them somewhere, and maybe Al has a stake in that…

  • MCH

    “Some millionaire rapper (and former gang-member with a rap-sheet a mile long, no doubt) could call them “nappy-headed hoes” all day long, and he wouldn’t be criticized by the MSM or Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson.”
    – RJ Elliott

    The difference being that the rapper is talking about ho’s, while Imus was referring to collegiate basketball players.

  • Liz

    But those popular lyrics promote prostitution,
    glorify violence against women and justify murder. Surely that’s worse than the careless utterance by Don…?

  • Liz

    And I’ll even take it one step further to say that 1) those lyrics were purposefully written and recorded, and 2) The genre is targeted to a primarily African-American audience.

  • JustOneMan


    I guess you didnt go to college..I knew alot of ho’s, was one myself


  • Clavos

    The difference being that the rapper is talking about ho’s

    Which in rapperese, simply means women; no necessarily different from round ball players.

  • Doug Hunter

    The vast majority of people are racists. The smart ones have learned to vaguely deny it and move on, the shallow ones will argue all day about how they had a friend of another race, blah, blah, blah.

    I sometimes wonder whether the latter are dumb enough to believe they can actually fool others or if they have somehow managed to actually fool themselves. I’m oddly reminded of the phenomenon that causes repressed gays to become homophobic.

    So we play out this public opera of bullshit. Repressed whites feign outrage in public what they themselves would say in private. Blacks do likewise with the cover of victimhood allowing them to get their little digs in at THE MAN. We smile, shake our heads, and ask what’s wrong with the world; our dirty little racist secret safely locked away.

  • MBD

    Victimhood is alive and well.

  • I wonder how many people died in Iraq today?

  • Zedd

    All of you that are posting right now actually reflect

    1. Just how old and out of touch you are. Don’t bother to reply you wont get it.

    2. Just how ignorant you are about Black culture. If you cared you would be thoroughly embarrassed but since you think that your culture is superior and needs to be emulated and respected, you don’t care. But your ignorance is abysmal and laughable.

  • Zedd


    “Looking back on when my best friend was a little nappy headed boy”

    That is a cultural phrase that you wouldn’t understand. Its time to accept the fact that you are ignorant about what goes on outside of your tiny world yet everyone knows your culture.

  • The vast majority of people are racists.

    I’m not convinced that ALL people aren’t racist.

    I can guarantee that ALL people are prejudiced, in one way or the other.

    But then, that just stands to reason, doesn’t it?

  • mo

    I was very disappointed to learn that MSNBC has decided to pull the plug on the Imus in the Morning Program. It is unfortunate that Imus used poor judgment in describing the Rutgers Women’s basketball team. His apology was sincere.

    I cannot believe that the network would kowtow so quickly to the pressure from the likes of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, two individuals with their own past racist remarks that were not intended as comedy. Where is their outrage to other blacks who use the same language to describe black women? It makes me wonder about their commitment to being a fair and balanced news network, (Sorry, I was thinking of Fox News Network).

    The only reason we watched MSNBC in the morning was for the Imus program since we cannot get it on the radio. Since they canceled his program we will no longer watch MSNBC, NBC or anything produced by Universal Studios.

    Also the cowardly sponsors who withdrew their support of the program will no longer receive any consideration from me for their products. This also goes for the politicians that also called for his firing so they may get additional black votes. They will find that they are losing votes from whites.

    I hope MSNBC is able to deal with the loss of viewers and the rating fall that will occur when other Imus fans also abandon their network and sponsors.

    Don Imus is a good person who has used his position to raise funds for causes that benefit all races of children and our American veterans who are been ignored by the Bush Administration.

    MSNBC’s actions against Don Imus has caused more damage to race relations by showing that they will succumb to the pressure from a very very small minority of blacks and ignore the majority of blacks and whites that support forgiveness and moving forward to improve relationships.

    Freedom of speech has been further eroded today.


  • MCH

    Can we get an edit on #118 please?

  • Zedd


    Victimhood is alive and well.

    I couldn’t agree more. It seems that another person has made a racist comment and so many are making a victim out of him. So odd don’t you think?

    I often hear people prior to defending a racist action say “off course racism exists, but this situation….”. Heck if racism exists why is it whenever a racist act occurs its never REALLY racism? Unless someone claims to be a KKK, their racist acts are always “a laps in judgement”. Off course they are. That is what racism is. Its stupidity. Its not perpetuated by some guy with horns or a white sheet (I think those are funny). Its regular guys who are nice sometimes who don’t get it. Its people who you like and think you could be pals with, that forget that their world view is not superior. Its people who don’t want to share reality with others; who want to lord their perspective on everyone else and make fun of anyone who differs from them. Its people who don’t respect other’s cultures because they believe that their way is the one correct way to experience life on this planet.

    So yes, its these people that are supported as victims because they don’t have horns growing out of their heads. They are just like you.

  • Just a Casual Observer

    Someone earlier stated that these Rutgers players were somehow rather angelic and therefore must be unlike their male counterparts who predominantly seem to originate in inner city neighborhoods and are quite often appear and act as if they were all gang bangers. Do the black women live in a different environment that is fresh and pristine? I believe Imus referred to their “gang banger” tattoos as one indicator of where their origins may lie. I am not a basketball fan and never will be as long as the players are so visibly and behaviorally linked to their delinquent roots. And don’t be fooled by the fact that they go to Rutgers as making them somehow different. College athletics are all about making money and the scholastic achievements of the players generally take a back seat to to winning.

    As far as Imus is concerned, I don’t listen to him for the same reason I don’t listen to Howard Stern and that’s because they don’t entertain me. Let Imus’s audience determine his fate.

  • Al Sharpton never apologized for his comments or actions during the Brawley fiasco; he hasn’t said a word (yet) about his posturing through the Duke (not a rape) case. Before he asks anyone to apologize for anything, perhaps he should remember that he walks on a two way street. Imus, Michael Richards, et al have apologized, when will Sharpton?

  • As far as Imus is concerned, I don’t listen to him for the same reason I don’t listen to Howard Stern and that’s because they don’t entertain me. Let Imus’s audience determine his fate.


    The rest of the comment was thoughtless crap, but this part is absolutely correct.

  • Zedd #120, come on. Sweeping generalization.

  • …Not that I’m singling you out. :<)

  • jeff ashamed of the US

    Jesse Jackson had an affair and fathered an illegitimate child. Did he ask for forgiveness? Did he get it? Al Sharpton is a racist. Look up all the news about Tawana Brawley. Did he apologize? Of course not. He didnt have to after all he is black. America owes him because of the past. He spends more on his hair in a month than I make on my job in a month. What exactly is his job? Apparentley his job is to exploit rascism and offend. He, by the very definition is a pimp and guess what– that makes the Rutgers girls basketball team his HO’S! C’mon Al keep the ball rolling.

  • The Haze

    Zedd – you need to get together with Courtney(#24) and Raving Moon. you think you know….you don’t. your thinking is obtuse.

  • jeff ashamed of the US

    Al Sharpton’s radio website is on blackamericaweb.com. Hmmmmmmmmm, if there was a whiteamericaweb.com that would be a racist, kkk,aryan site and would be subject to all sorts of economic and judicial persecution. Why? Because we have been programmed to give black america concessions out of guilt from the past. Freedom of speech exists but only in moderation.

  • Recceghost

    Al sharpton is nothing more than a racially motivated bottom feeder who is living off of, and only contributes to, the decline of his own culture for personal gain.

    He is the very essence of what constitutes racsim.

    I think he should be focusing his efforts more on cleaning his own house before pointing out dirt in others. I do not see him calling for the complete and utter banning or firing of just about any given black rapper in the hip hop industry, or for the total humiliation and disintegration of the common black man for that matter, for their constant verbal abuse of their own culture and racially motivated views of others.

    “Equality for everyone”. Can someone please, and I am serious when I ask this, tell me why it is okay for someone of the black community to use the “N” word when they are talking about their own people and why it is okay to degrade their own people in everyway imaginable?…”Equality for everyone”. Why is this considered socially acceptable to black people but in the same context considered racist if the exact same words are uttered with the exact same meaning, context and passion from a white person. And don’t give me the standard line “you haven’t been through what we have been through”. That still doesn’t make it OK for one but not the other…”Equality for everyone”.

    As for Imus, he said a bad thing that should not have been said but show me one person who at one point or another in their life has not said something about someone that was not degrading in some form or another and I will be the first person to raise my hand and say they deserve sainhood. Do I think he should be fired for that? No. I have seen and heard far worse from all walks of live and rarely do you see the outcry that we have witnessed here. In the later stages of Imus’ life he has done alot of good for a lot of people. What true good has Sharpton done that has not been motivated for personal gain at the expense of others.

    I agree, If Imus goes…so must Al Sharpton.

  • wdufkin

    I’ve heard Winphrey use the word nappy before and I truely had no idea that it was used as anything other than a hair type like staight or curley. I actually thought nappy was tightly curled. I just looked it up on dictionary.com and it means kinky. So what’s the fuss. If a black person were to call my kids straight haired ho’s I wouldn’t think it was a racist statement really. I’d be insulted for my daughters to be called ho’s but I’d think that it was a cultural issue. This culture glamorizes sex and isn’t Desparate Housewives a highly rated program? Currently the younger generation uses the word ho in the same way that past generations used the word dame. It’s called slang, I think. It’s definately base either way. Mama and Daddy better teach your children better.

  • Stinkey

    The vaudeville comedy team of jackson and sharpton are the leaders and spokemen for all of the black community in America. How sad.

  • BBW

    ALLENTOWN, Pa. — A radio station fired its longtime morning DJ Wednesday after he encouraged listeners to repeat talk-show host Don Imus’ racially charged comments in an on-air contest.

    Gary Smith told WSBG-FM listeners to call and say “I’m a nappy-headed ho” for Tuesday’s “Phrase that Pays” contest, said Rick Musselman, executive vice president of station owner Nassau Broadcasting Partners L.P.

    Musselman said three of the listeners who called were awarded tickets to a NASCAR promotion at a local club.

    Station management reviewed a tape of the broadcast of the “Gary in the Morning” show and fired Smith, Musselman said.

    Musselman said that Smith was fired and not suspended because he uttered the slur in a premeditated manner, “with full knowledge of the reaction to Don Imus’ use of the exact same phrase.”

    Al Sharpton did not cause this…racism did. Racism is alive and well in America. I live in Alabama and I know what it is like to be discriminated against. Its not that the race card is being pulled; it’s the actual truth.

    You can not place blame on Al Sharpton for citing what is wrong. Al Sharpton is nothing like the KKK. When was the last time he hung someone from a tree? The KKK did in 1982 in Mobile, Alabama. So, please do not compare him to a group of murders. He stands up for what he believes is right whether you agree with it or not.

    The fact of the matter is that people have not let go the past. The African American’s history is very painful, furthermore, these wounds are not allowed to heal due to constant reminder that we are “niggers” and “nappy headed ho’s”. Until it is realized that racism is a learned behavior and we as humans deprogram racism out of our minds…racism will exist forever.

    You can not quote dates that racist events occurred against white people to prove your argument. Please stop quoting racist events….this blog does not have enough space for me to play cut and paste.

  • Frankly, we are fast becoming the epitome of a Jerry Springer society. It seems to have become more important to have an audience and notoriety when confronting conflict than it is to attain resolve and mutual respect. That model seems to serve the needs of the exploited and those who seek to exploit; reinforcing all that relegates objectivity to the outhouse while making the frailty and imperfection of the human condition a spectacle that harkens back to the Coliseum.

    This situation isn’t and shouldn’t be about whether liberals or conservatives, this race or that race, hip hop or honky-tonk, one group or another, are more offensive and therefore more responsible for all that is wrong with America. I am not capable of judging the whole of Don Imus nor am I capable of crafting a recipe to fix all of America…and neither are the countless pundits and partisans who have sought to frame it so.

    I’m not a religious person…but I often find kinship with the imagery surrounding the portrayal of one called Jesus and his teachings of understanding and forgiveness. For all the banter I hear about the Bible and Christian values, it certainly seems to me that we are fast abandoning what many view as the sacred “tablets” in favor of the sacrosanct tabloids. If I’m right, all I can say is heaven help us.

    Read more about the dynamics that lead a situation to become larger than the sum of its parts

  • Jewish American

    Don Imus is a scum bag and is getting his. He does deserve what he gets. It sounds to me he is a racist at heart. What gets me is ANYONE who stands up for Al Sharpton. He is a disgusting human being. He is a racist, an anti-semite, a liar, and a moral lepper. Do some research on his treatment of Jewish Americans. How does he have a job? What Imus did was minor compaired to Sharpton.

  • RJ

    Why is Al Sharpton called a “civil-rights activist” in the MSM, when he is really just a race-baiting anti-Semite who fights not for “civil rights” but for Black advantage in hiring, college admissions, and other areas?

    And pretty much the same thing could be said about Jesse Jackson, except Jackson has had the decency not to instigate race-riots that killed people, or to be found guilty of defamation of character and then refuse to pay the civil penalty, or even apologize…

  • JustOneMan

    “I live in Alabama and I know what it is like to be discriminated against. Its not that the race card is being pulled; it’s the actual truth.”

    Gee your such a fucking victim! Stop blaming “whitey” for your own weaknesses and faults. Its not because your black..maybe its because your unqualified, lazy, dumb and/or not too attractive? No it cant be that its because your black? gIVE ME A BREAK!

    Pretty pathetic human beings!


  • Greg Wayne

    I agree Don Imus shouldn’t have called them women ho’s. I’m also sick of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson making a race issue out of everything someone says and when Mr. Imus called them women nappy headed he wasn’t just talking about the black women because it was white women on that team too. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson needs to stop trying to ban every curse word in the english language because they know that they curse too, nobody’s perfect. I think that these young ladies need to get over it now, its more things in this world to worry about other than someone calling them out of there names. Wow, someone called them a bad name wow!! Women and men call eachother names all the time. GET OVER IT!!!

  • Sharpton has gotten greedy and is perhaps contributing to the continued cycle of racism in America.



    Hee hee…. ha haHAHAHA!!!!


  • New York Cityite

    I totally detest Al Sharpton and have always found him an annoying and abrasive hipocritical loud mouth. I don’t know where he bought his “Rev.” title, perhaps he is self-ordained. The Tawana Brawley debacle was a disgrace and it seems everyone has forgotten his part in all of that, not too mention he barely received a slap on the wrist. I have always wondered, how does he actually make a living? Who pays him to be a feces monger?
    There are plenty of terrific role-model-leaders-spokespersons for black America (to replace Sharpton & Jackson). I wish Oprah were politically motivated. She is kind, honest, generous and compassionate and has an integrity missing from most politicians.

  • Mike White

    Now that CBS has fired Don Imus we can honestly stand up and say……..the nappy-headed reverends posing as civil rights leaders have won. When are the people of this great country going to stand up and say to people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and all of the other so called Civil Rights Leaders that enough is enough. These “leaders” continue to lead “their people” down a road that will NOT allow racism to end. Afterall, if it did they would all be out of work.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Now that CBS has fired Imus, why doesn’t he just call Sharpton for what he is – a lying manipulative nigger bastard (why stop with nappie headed whore?). Imus has nothing to lose – and a shitload of broadcasters who would be happy to see some truth mixed with a little venom – or is it a little bit of truth mixed with a whole load of venom. Imus is just a fool who forgets sometimes that he has to be careful not to repeat the shit his kids have been hearing on Mp3s or radio. But Sharpton is a deliberate rabble rouser who wouldn’t care how many people got killed in riots that he might have stirred up….

  • Jay

    MSNBC & CBS have predictably caved. Now if there is any genuine justice, the ravenous media beast will turn upon and devour Sharpton. It will turn over the forgotten pages of the Tawana Brawley affair, expose Sharpton’s lies and distortions, and his willingness, indeed eagerness, to use and destroy anyone for the sake of his own self-aggrandizement. It will review how Brawley was Sharpton’s puppet, used, cast aside, forgotten; how Sharpton was willing to destroy the career of Steven Pagones with the false allegations he trumpeted; how he was found liable for damages and has never apologized nor paid a cent to compensate Pagones for the harm he inflicted. Finally, it will look at Sharpton’s role in abetting the accuser of the the Duke athletes, who fortunately have been spared complete destruction. The media beast must be fed. Hopefully in Sharpton it will see an irresistable morsel.

  • jeff ashamed of the US

    The media beast won’t turn on nappy Sharpton because they dont have the the balls to stand against black whining. If they did they’d be persecuted like Imus. And dont give me that slavery bull either. England owned the colonies back then–bitch to them for money and equality. And what about the african tribes that sold their own people for monatary gain. My ancestors didn’t own slaves and I dont either— my people and I are slaves to the capitalist system and just want to earn enough to get by and live and be left alone. Maybe it’s time for me to drop out cause the man is holding me down. I’m going to sell crack and do drive-by shootings. It’s time for me to be lazy and use my stupidity as an excuse!

  • bb

    Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, I stop short of calling them Reverends, are two of the biggest hypocrits ever.
    My question is what would Jesus do?

  • jeff ashamed of the US

    In college I never had any classes with basketball players let alone any other jocks. You know why, because most them are only in school for one thing– sports. They get scholarships and get everything handed to them. I busted my ass in school for a 3.55 GPA, while those miserable bastards barely could hold a 1.0! Time has come to stop this insane bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • bb

    I think it is now time to force all radio and tv stations to remove all racially offensive violent music and fire all hosts who play this type of music.Does this sound a bit harsh and foolish? Probably. Just as it is ridiculous to fire Don Imus. Yes he made a stupid remark. Yes it was terribly wrong. Yes he apologized over and over and over again. Forgive him for making a mistake.

  • Stinkey

    Jewish American#138. I agree don imus is a SCUM BAG. How does not so sharp sharpton have a job? Same as jessie jack ass jackson. They prey on the ignorant majority of American blacks as they get in line like sheep being led to the slaughter. Pimp my ride jackson and sharpton and blow it out your ass. Fucking dirt bags.

  • I normally find comfort in cartoons, but for this I turn to Seinfeld. And I loosely paraphrase off the top of my head and by memory.

    “..why must I know where a Chinese restaurant because I’m Chinese…”

    “…I made reserva…appropriate accomodations…”

    “…yeah. I got it off a sca….”

    “…you can’t give something to someone and ask for it back that would make you a….”

    “You don’t see me freaking out whenever someone asks me ‘which way is Israel…”

  • Onion breath

    Not all African Americans are led by Al and Jesse. Some are led by whites looking for promotions as well. Michael Nifong was elected by using the race card, and ruining the lives of some bright young men. Yet, not one black leader has come forward to say they were completely wrong about their judgement of these White Men. Not one Black leader has come forward to recall Nifong. Fact is, it is o.k. to hate the Single White male. The Back bone of America.

  • The Haze

    Stinkey – they are not ignorant. they know exactly what they’re doing. it’s called ridin’ the coattails of race pimps and their excuse is that they’ve been oppressed by whitey so much that this is the only way of gettin’ back.why is everything whitey’s fault? double standard people. that is what sticks in the craw of whites. Liberal whites would rather appease than complain and the rest of us that speak up get labeled “Racist”. If a black speaks up he’s an “uncle tom”right?Prof. Edwards of USC suggested that todays rap lyrics are not as harmful as Imus’s remarks because they don’t reach the same audience that Imus does. Pulease!!! and Sharpton on O’Reily last night suggested that Jesse’s remarks about “Hymietown” were said in private and not meant for the public. C’mon!!

  • Mike White

    It is time for Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to also be fired. Oh wait……we have to first figure out who they work for. Did anyone catch the name of the churches these “reverends” work for? I didn’t think so. They must serve the church of the poor, beaten down black man that can say anything he wants without fear of retribution. I do agree with “Onion breath” (Post #152). Why hasn’t Sharpton or Jackson stepped forward to defend this poor black accuser. Afterall, what happened yesterday in the Duke Rape Case is clearly a case of the rich white men vs. the poor, black, nappy-headed ho”. Where are Al & Jesse. I guess a real nappy-headed ho is not worth their time or trouble.

  • Zedd

    Its funny how Whites whine when they get caught being racist and morph into victim-hood. Imus messed up and called innocent, hard working young ladies ho’s and jigaboos. What is sad is that most posters on these boards are older men. None of you have an ounce of manhood. None of you stood up. You are just a bunch of sick, small men who have not let go of your hateful, jealous, racist ways. You are panicking because the world is changing and the field is become more and more even every day. You are scared because your being White and male will not cut it any more. You will have to work and push and beg and grin like the rest of humanity. Your opinions wont matter. You will be solely judge on substance, which you know in the depths of your under developed hearts that you lack. You’ve got nothing but your appendages and your skin. Unfortunately that isn’t good enough. Look around.

    What made the difference is that a lot of those companies had Black executives in place. Look at all of the commercials (the public relations vehicles in our society and barometers of our society and near future), who are the symbols of success?

    Your and crazed and inappropriate defense of Imus is not what you are really angry about. Its your lost status. YOU ARE SCARED that you are now just viewed like anyone else.

    Racists have never been intelligent. The founding ideas behind racist rhetoric are based on utter ignorance, which most of you display on this thread. Do you not know just how off your views about Blacks are?

    How dare you assume that Blacks need leaders? Who leads you? How dare you assume that Blacks want a ride. Do you not realise that that is the new sick, racist idea about Blacks. Do you not know that its like saying that we all like watermelon and that we all do the jig and play the fiddle. Do you not realise how deeply sick your ideas are about millions of individuals who are just trying to raise their children, fall in love, go to church, advance in their careers, pay their taxes, take care of their elderly parents, travel, send kids to college, like all other people.

    You are truly sick! Do you realise that other people don’t look at the rest of humanity, including Whites who have been the perpetrators of a lot of injury (killing, stealing, robbing) in the way that you do. Do you realise just how isolated you are in your hatred, strange obsessed, and misplaced paranoia about others. Most of the things that have been claimed on this thread just don’t exist. Your warped perception leads you to see things in a highly and laughably distorted way.

    Ask questions. Don’t tell people who they are and what they believe. There is no way you can be right.


    I hope you are proud of bringing all of this out. You started out redirecting the focus from Imus but ended up highlighting just how sick and racist America still is.

    I ask you again, how do we forget?

  • BBW

    “Gee your such a fucking victim! Stop blaming “whitey” for your own weaknesses and faults. Its not because your black..maybe its because your unqualified, lazy, dumb and/or not too attractive? No it cant be that its because your black? gIVE ME A BREAK!”

    Just one man…but I hate to disappoint you. I am none of the above. I am well educated, I hold three degrees: a B.S. Biology, M.S. Secondary Education and A.A. in Biology. I’m not on welfare, food stamps or any other financial assistance. I own my own two story townhouse and I don’t need a damn thing from you. Therefore, that attempt at an intelligent, snappy comeback was unsuccessful ! LOL I am an intelligent beautiful, successful black woman…your worst nightmare. Guess what …there’s more than a thousand more of us….lol

    Now understand this, I am not defending Al Sharpton, I simply stating the truth. This whole issue is nothing but a media game. Imus got caught with his pants down. PERIOD! What he did was wrong but lets not punish him and lets turn the blame elsewhere. Lets blame Al Sharpton and rap lyrics they did it too! Why is Imus being punished!! Its not fair !!! Stop your whining !!!! It’s very painful to see yourself in the mirror and a lot of you are mirroring the image of Imus. Its nigger this, -ho that, please become original because these insults are getting a tad bit old. Children grow up!

  • feverflames

    i dont see what the big deal is, rappers rap about nappy headed hoes and bitches all the damn time and no one gives a shit, it was meant to be funny and people need to chillax already. in my opinion this whole thing is hilarious.

  • BBW

    “Gee your such a fucking victim! Stop blaming “whitey” for your own weaknesses and faults. Its not because your black..maybe its because your unqualified, lazy, dumb and/or not too attractive? No it cant be that its because your black? gIVE ME A BREAK!”

    Just one man…but I hate to disappoint you. I am none of the above. I am well educated, I hold three degrees: a B.S. Biology, M.S. Secondary Education and A.A. in Biology. I’m not on welfare, food stamps or any other financial assistance. I own my own two story townhouse and I don’t need a damn thing from you. Therefore, that attempt at an intelligent, snappy comeback was unsuccessful ! LOL I am an intelligent beautiful, successful black woman…your worst nightmare. Guess what …there’s more than a thousand more of us….lol

    Now understand this, I am not defending Al Sharpton, I am simply stating the truth. This whole issue is nothing but a media game. Imus got caught with his pants down. PERIOD! What he did was wrong but lets not punish him and lets turn the blame elsewhere. Lets blame Al Sharpton and rap lyrics they did it too! Why is Imus being punished!! Its not fair !!! Stop your whining !!!! It’s very painful to see yourself in the mirror and a lot of you are mirroring the image of Imus. Its nigger this, -ho that, please become original because these insults are getting a tad bit old. Children grow up!

  • BBW

    Please, stop the rap thing! The issue with rappers and Imus is not a parallel issue. Imus was speaking specifically about the Rutgers team. A rapper has never stated that “feverflames’ mother is a nappy headed ho!” That argument is irrelevant!

  • Linda

    From reading the other comments on this blog it seems everyone is missing the point that there is a double standard in this country of free speech…you are only protected by the Constitution if you are a minority. The silent majority is being censored by political correctness. Diversity doesn’t include “whites” and the media and society is blatently anti-white. The caucasian race is a minority in the population of the world. There are elements of genocide in our society who want to eliminate the entire white race and they have the “right” to say so. Whites are the target of violent crime and hate speech on a daily basis but we are not allowed to voice the way we feel because we cannot “offend” those who hate us.

  • BBW – if those insults are so old…ho and the other you mentioned…then why are they so offensive?

    that’s what I don’t understand…we hear them every day…every time some wannabe white boy drives down the street in a car with stereo speakers that are bigger than the engine pushing them I hear that crap…why is it okay to sing about nappy headed ho’s on the radio but not speak about it on the radio?

    Just wondering…

  • feverflames

    by the way, what does nappy hair or hoes have to do with race? anyone can have nappy hair, and i know for a damn fact black girls arent the only hoes. so… why is this a race issue again?

  • MK

    HEY, comment #97…If you are going to use an irrelevant Stevie Wonder lyric to prove a point, at least get if fucking right!!!

    “Looking back on WHEN I, was a little nappy headed boy.”


  • BBW

    Andy Marsh

    I am speaking for myself. I can not speak for my entire race. Those words do not offend me. I am in the process of deprograming myself from ignorance.

  • feverflames

    bbw, hair and skin color are not parallel issue either… and now tell me, why is it that blacks cant get along with any race,be it white hispanic or even their own? always so quick to play the damn race card, blacks are the racists, and always blaming others for their misfortunes, i mean shit whats gonna make you ppl stfu you’ve got your own movie channels”black stars” , music channels “bet” , you ppl wanted to be unsegregated, yet you separate yourselves from everyone. if anybody is racist, its blacks, you ppl have proven that a countless number of times, and continue to prove it.

  • that’s another one…as long as you look at yourself as some other race…then it’ll never change…

    I have a cousin who married a black guy…when I lived in AZ one of my neighbors asked me what I would do if my daughter dated outside her race…I really didn’t have an answer…I always figured as long as he’s a decent person…who cares…

    I told my cousin, by marriage, about this and his answer to me was another question…he said…

    Outside her race…you mean like a chicken or a pig or something?

    Until my favorite cousin had put it to me like that…it had never crossed my mind that we’re all part of the human race…the rat race…whatever you wanna call it…

    I mean, I’m no scientist or anything, but I think the human genome is pretty similar across the board no matter the color of your skin…you might have a little more melonin in your skin than me…not much, I am half italian after all…but I’m pretty sure we can even interbreed and not create something bad…

    well nothing bad other than my wife cutting off my johnson!!!!


    Have a nice day





    This whole thing has disgusted me beyond belief… what has happened to this country when we allow hypocritcal bigots like Sharpton to dictate the fate of hard working , genorous Americans like Don Imus.. Who will it be next.??AL Sharpton go back to the Bahamas and stay there we certainly do not need people like you living here. CBS,MSNBC,WFAN,NBC- you are all cowards I will never watch or listen to your stations again because I can do that because I can make that choice- This is America!!!!!!!!!!!

  • rob

    Rosa Parks was a hero.
    MLK was a hero.
    Al Sharpton was, is, and always will be a nappy-headed attention ho!

    If he wanted to raise the level of decency in America, he should start by attacking black hip hop artists. That’s too hard. It’s much easier to attack one white man. He probably fears being assassinated by a black rapper if he tries to shake down that particular corporation.

  • Zedd


    How do you know that Black hip hop artists are not being attacked by Al Sharpton?

    Stop embarrassing yourself.

    Ask questions.

    You think your Whiteness gives you automatic insight that would benefit Blacks. You have no idea just how introspective our community is. There is not a topic that you can bring up that we haven’t discussed ad nauseum.

    Your ignorance and self absorption disallows you to know just how big and developed the rest of the world is. Your tiny little view point gives you a false sense of intelligence and wisdom.

    The issue of rappers has been discussed over and over again since the 80’s in the Black community. Thanks anyway for the advise. THe evolution in the music from gangsta is correlated to the outcry. The current emergence in Rap is more artistic and spoken word influenced. You don’t know this because you are out of touch. In other words, you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Just shhhhhhhhh and ask questions.

  • Stinkey

    Zedd#155. Think maybe you picking all that cotton the sun has warped your brain. Go see your master, do a little jig and maybe he will toss you a watermelon.

  • BMW

    Recceghost: You’ve got to be kidding. Where have you been looking? The black community, including Al Sharpton, has been up in arms about the glorification of violence and the negative portrayal of women in rap music for years.

    Your banter about free speech “equality” is nonsense. Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable Guy can comfortably make jokes about being a hillbilly or redneck, not Chris Rock. Does that mean Foxworthy and The Cable Guy are racist against whites? Of course not. Does that mean it’s okay for someone who is not white to call the white guy sitting next to him a redneck? Absolutely not. If you call your wife “sweetie” does that mean I can do it too? Come on, use your brain, man!

    This has nothing to do with “equality.” It’s about basic common decency and common sense.

    Imus absolutely should have been fired. Period. And not because of anything said by Jessie Jackson or Al Sharpton. In fact, why are you, and the rest of media for that matter, focusing on them at all? They have nothing to do with the shock and anger expressed by women and people of color about this outrage.

    I’ve never been a fan of Al Sharpton, and certainly never dreamed I’d be standing up for him about anything. But contrary to your arguement here, Sharpton has long taken a stand against violence in rap music and even has an annual conference that focuses on fighting the negative images put forth by gansta rap. Other groups have too. Essence, the black women’s magazine, has launched a “take back the music” campaign launching an attack against the recording industry that supports and fosters this genre. Just because BET or MTV (neither of which are owned by blacks, by the way) perpetuates the music and lifestyle, doesn’t mean that every person of color embraces it, or even likes it.

    Here are links to some examples of the above: Al Sharpton and Rap From the Blogcritics archives and
    Misogyny, gangsta rap, and The Piano
    by Bell Hooks

  • Zedd


    FYI Nobody says WHITEY any more. That was used int he 60’s or 70’s I guess.

    As BBW said, no one cares what you think. Reading these comments sort of of supports why that is the case.

  • I say Whitey…but I like to remember those good old Yankee days….you know…when they had the Mick…and Whitey…

    sorry…I couldn’t help myself!

  • Zedd


    What you are missing is that Imus was AT WORK. You can get fired by your boss for saying something that he views to be inappropriate.

    Also, its called the FREE MARKET! Imus is a product. He made himself yucky, now he is no longer marketable.

    Are you caught up now.

    This is not a free speech issue at all.

    Do you know any Black DJs that call White young women athletes red neck hoers solely because of their appearance? If you do, push for them to be fired. I would support your cause. Has Al Sharpton said such a thing on the Air?

  • Zedd

    feverflames acts why this is a race issue.

    Watch the Spike Lee movie and you will get it.

    Do you know what a jigaboo is? Look that up too.

    Thanks for asking and not lecturing.

  • Not for nothing Zedd…but Al Sharpton did just about start a race riot in NYC a few years back…and if I recall correctly he had a few things to say about a few Lacrosse players in NC…not that it has anything to do with what Imus did…but Sharpton is, at the very least a serious rabble rouser and at his worst, he’s a flat our nasty assed racist.

  • Zedd

    feverflames asks why this is a race issue.

    Watch the Spike Lee movie and you will get it.

    Do you know what a jigaboo is? Look that up too.

    Thanks for asking and not lecturing.

  • Steve C, Smithtown NY

    Regarding the Imus firing:
    I am deeply saddened by your decision to fire Don Imus. I was shocked to hear that your once great company allowed itself to be bullied into what is so obviously the wrong decision. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, both men who preach forgiveness, have just illustrated that forgiveness depends upon skin color. And worse yet, you have proven that your company cares only about the almight buck, and not about right and wrong. Anybody who actually listens to and knows Don Imus (and Sharpton & Jackson surely didn’t) knows that he is NOT a racist. So, you fire a man who has done so much for society and CBS, for one unfortunate utterance, which he apologized for, because two men, trying once again to shine the spotlight on themselves, demand it.
    While I realize my small family carries very little weight with you, I can promise you that I am done with CBS and WFAN. In speaking with friends and co-workers, it seems as if everyone is now anti-CBS. I can only hope for two things: Imus gets rehired elsewhere, and buries WFAN in the ratings, and CBS loses enough of its audience, and feels the pain of its cowardly actions.

  • Clavos

    Howard Stern wound up on Sirius, costing XM millions of listeners.

    Imus will probably be snapped up by XM before the end of next week.

    Follow the money folks, that’s all that counts.

  • BMW

    Jeff re your post #133:

    Blackamerica web exists because the slave trade stole any other identifiable ethnic identity from American blacks other than race. They can’t post to Scottish-America.web, fly Italian American flags, join the Hibernian society or qualify for those college scholarships earmarked for whites only…oops, sorry, I mean designated for German Americans or Polish Americans or some other ethnicity synonymous with white. The only group identity left to them after being duly stripped of name, country and cultural heritage was race, i.e. which why they embrace their black or African heritage.

    If black Americans could indeed classify themselves by an ethnicity, such as hailing from Nigeria, or Kenya, or Egypt or embrace their common heritage by any other means than by race, there would be no need for a such thing as a blackamerica web or any other organization that uses race as a cultural identifier.

    Are you that dense that this isn’t obvious? OR are you suggesting that blacks are really nonpersons so that for them having sense of belonging and identity — like any other human being on the planet — isn’t important?

  • Zedd


    Al Sharpton did just about start a race riot in NYC a few years back

    Do you think that Blacks are that stupid? Shame on you. That all they have to hear is a speech and they break off in a riot? The situation and pent up frustration for years regarding race matters caused the riot. Not a speech.

    he had a few things to say about a few Lacrosse players in NC

    So? He is an activist. What do you expect? Is it a sin to be wrong? I was annoyed with the entire thing from the start and thought it was ridiculous to support a stripper and make a big deal out of that issue but HE is an activist. That is what they do. Adjust to that.

    Its not wrong to be an activist. They do give speeches to crowds when they are angry. It just goes with the territory.

    at the very least a serious rabble rouser and at his worst, he’s a flat our nasty assed racist.

    “rabble rouser” suggests again that adult Black people cant asses a situation on their own. They get aroused by a speech and end up misbehaving FOR NO REASON.

    There is something that you have to come to terms with. Compared every group in every country in the world, African Americans have dealt with their historical malignant VERY peacefully. Do you know that in most parts of the world that this country would be in flames, with the history that we have regarding African Americans.

    You dare whine about speeches and “RABBLE rousing”

    Also, what makes him a racist? Now THINK. What country are we talking about? Who in that country are we talking about? Why and how is Al Sharpton THE racist? Do you equate talking about race matters in detail, without stopping as being racist? No one on this thread has stated why Al Sharpton is a racist.

    Help me understand.


  • from Al Sharpton is a Nappy Headed Ho
    Excerpt: pray that black people wake up to the fact that this is not 1950 and the enemy is not white people but greedy, self-aggrandizing, publicity-grabbing, money-laundering, drug-dealing, race-baiting, self-loathing black demagogues like Al Sharpton.

  • Clavos

    “rabble rouser” suggests again that adult Black people cant asses a situation on their own. They get aroused by a speech and end up misbehaving FOR NO REASON.

    ALL people, regardless of ethnicity or national origin can be and ARE manipulated by people like Sharpton.

    Remember Hitler? He manipulated unhappy Germans suffering from a destroyed economy and loss of national pride after a crushing defeat in WWI into what became the Third Reich.

    Hitler was perhaps the most expert and adept rabble rouser of the twentieth century.

    George Wallace? Another one, but not nearly as good as Hitler.

    Paine? Jefferson? Madison? All rabble rousers.

  • Zedd


    Why so quiet. Are you feeling conflicted?

  • rob


    Sorry for bunching up your underwear like that. But it is true that Sharpton is an attention whore with an agenda. He also has a history of anti-semitism and racism. He’s a hypocrite.

    “The evolution in the music from gangsta is correlated to the outcry.”

    Outcry? These “artists” are more interested in their bling and bitches than the “outcry”.

    “The current emergence in Rap is more artistic and spoken word influenced.”

    If that were truly the case in mainstream Rap, it won’t last long. 80% of hip hip record sales come from white middle class suburban teens. They’re not going to catch on to anything artistic.

    Not one kid in my area owns a copy of the first Freeway cd. Now THAT recording stood out. And there will never be another Public Enemy.

    I’m out of touch? You don’t know me well enough to make that call. But thanks for tearing me a new one in your post. It humbled me so. Now I bow to your omnipotence.

    I will refrain from expressing my opinions in this forum. I dare not ruffle the feathers of the great and powerful Zedd. For he is all knowing…or perhaps completely delusional.

  • rob

    Sure blacks have a history of being subjected to abuse and oppression. What about women? Women have been oppressed since the beginning of time. What about Jews? They hadn’t had it so great either.

    Blacks…oh, sorry…African Americans have just as much opportunity in this country as anyone else. I’ve seen the race card being played by blacks many times within the last 15 years of my employment at the same company. Whites in power are scared to death to go against them when they complain even about the most ridiculous things. A friend of mine was fired about a month after he filed a complaint with Human Resources at our company, against a black Supervisor who was treating him very unfairly. H.R. found a way to fire my friend (wrongfully) in a way that it wouldn’t appear to be connected with his complaint.

    By the way, Zedd. Personal attacks are not allowed in these forums. Read the Comment Policy.

  • STM

    BMW said: “Blackamerica web exists because the slave trade stole any other identifiable ethnic identity from American blacks other than race … if black Americans could indeed classify themselves by an ethnicity there would be no need to … (use) race as a cultural identifier.”

    Seriously, what a load of politically correct fu.king bollocks. After a couple of generations, most Americans from whatever background just tend to refer to themselves as Americans. Maybe that’s where the problem is.

    That particularly applies as black Americans were the second largest original non-indigenous group to populate the Americas. Yes, the circumstances weren’t good or right, but they don’t apply today except in some subtle ways and they certainly don’t apply to the thinking of the majority of white people. Certainly, there is no discrimination under federal law, and only notional discrimination under some state laws in places where race IS still an issue.

    Just so you understand where I’m coming from on this, I live in a country founded by people sent by the British to the other side of the world, in chains, on long arduous sea journeys during which many died, mostly transported for the rest of their lives and under threat of instant hanging if they ever returned to Britain. Once at their destination, these people lived in dreadful conditions, worked in chain gangs, were often flogged just for speaking, or killed for running away. Most had committed very minor crimes or none at all. Any of it sound familiar?

    I could easily say that the convict transportation system robbed white Australians of any sense of national/ethnic identity since they came from all over the British Empire. I’m not primarily a descendant of convicts anymore, I’m Australian. In truth, it’s probably given us our identity. But since Britain remains a miserable, cold, class-ridden place, I’m actually glad they were sent here in exile. I’m grateful to be here, through whatever circumstances that came about.

    Perhaps the focus for Black Americans might be better applied to the American part than the black part.

    I mean, it’s 2000 and fu.king 7 … who gives a rat’s about this stuff anymore? It’s just starting to sound really tedious.

    It’s become an artificial construct in a modern country that is now built on immigration and multi-racial multiculturalism. The fact that it was built on slavery as well is irrelevant today, as long as the injustices of the past aren’t forgotten. However, they shouldn’t any longer form the primary basis of cultural identity.

    Many black Americans do themselves a disservice by continuing to embrace the victim culture.

  • rob

    Zedd said – “The point is that these sponsors were supporting this man. They aren’t any more because America spoke up.”

    America didn’t have a chance to speak up. Al and Jessie, the self-proclaimed leaders of the black community, were the one’s that spoke up. They saw the opportunity and ran with it. At least this time Al didn’t incite any riots. He’s losing his touch.

    Also, it would have been fine and just if the companies Imus worked for decided on their own to shut him down. But it was Al and Jessie’s decision to have him fired whether you realize it or not. So I guess free speech will be regulated by Al and Jess from now on. Jews no longer control the media, which is something I’m sure Al is happy about. Now what will he rip on the Jews for?

  • rob

    One mo’ thang.

    I’m tired of hearing people like Della Reese talk about how the girls on the basketball team all had their dreams crushed by this white man. Well, how about all those young black children who lose their lives in gang-related crossfire each year? They don’t have the chance to even build dreams, let alone fulfill them.

    Della Reese was on Larry King last night. She said that aside from the team, what about all the little girls watching the t.v. and hearing that man say those things?

    Well, Della, I don’t think many young black girls watch or listen to Imus. But who is responsible for teaching the young black girls self-respect and self-esteem? The white media? Us white folk have to watch what we say for fear of losing our jobs? But black gangsta rappers can disrespect black women freely and openly without the fear of having the record deal taken away, right?

    I bring my kids up not to be racist. But I told them to NEVER allow anyone cause them to feel as though they are guilty, or to apologize for something they had nothing to do with.

    I hate to say this and I’m sure I’m in for a beating in here for saying this. But if you live in a place where the sound of gunfire keeps you up at night, don’t have kids. If you do, then YOU are to blame for your children’s plight, not the “whites”.

  • Kellarson

    Ok so maybe Imus did say something inappropriate and offensive, but tell me who hasn’t? Your ready to lynch a man who, until recently, most of you did not even know. They are words, and if Rev Sharpton and Jessie Jackson didn’t make this such a big deal it probably would have just blown over. Do I agree with Imus? Ofcourse not, in fact I never really cared for his political views; however I do know that Imus has done more for children (all races) then one could ever imagine. I have listened to radio stations that are mostly black DJs and I have heard the truly racist remarks that are said on those shows and nothing is ever done. I am a white person and I think that it is time that the white person stands up and says enough. As a white person living in America you are made to feel guilty about being white. When Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia or Chapelle make fun of white people we can’t say anything. There are no white Al Sharptons to say anything. Quite frankly I am tired of the double standards. Do all of you know about the show called “South Park” where every single episode makes fun of races, that is owned by Viacom. Now is that being taken off the air or are people laughing. I laugh when I hear black people make fun of white people, its funny, its humor. If you don’t like it you don’t have to watch/ listen to it. By firing Imus and by making a bigger deal then it is, is creating yet another tension between all ethnic groups. How many times has someone been called a “fat slob” on the radio/ television, how many times has our president been called “stupid”. How many times has Keith Ollberman given the Nazi sign? Does he get fired? The Rutgers basketball team seem like a bunch of fine young women, fine and strong. I feel Imus will talk to them and it will be over. They won’t be scarred for life believe me. It was an insensitive comment and nothing more from a shock jock, who cares? I know that I am waiting for Al Sharpton to apologize to the Duke Lacrosse players. You want to talk about kids that lost alot, over a lie that Al Sharpton ran with. These kids were hurt by this and it was far more then just name calling. They lost most of their college careers. Where are the protests for these boys? You guessed it, not anywhere. Grow up and accept that not all people are politically correct, thats life and if you want to start censuring, then you better get rid of most of the rappers and comedians, we can start with them. Get a thicker skin out there, words are only words.

  • The irony of all of this is that Imus said things just as offensive day in and day out. It was just his turn for the perpetual outrage machine to focus its energy and do its damage.


  • jeff ashamed of the US

    bmw thanks for not getting my point

  • BBW

    Its not me that separates my race…its America! Just about everything is broken up into color. Take a look in education…how do they view their testing results? It is viewed by socioeconomical status and race. I would love to forget that I am African American, just stop reminding me.

    P.S. I am a Scientist and you’re right.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    I dunno folks. All this reeks of trying to fish the shit (or brown trout, as Stan Denham likes to say) out of your cultural stew.. The question is not whether or how to fish the shit out, it is why you Americans allow the shit in your cultural stew in the first place.

    Imus was a racist bastard from way back. He should never have been allowed on the air at all. But Americans seem to think that insults are entertainment – to wit, many of the comments on this on-line magazine – and their corporate masters encourage this animalistic mentality.

    Sharpton and Jackson are nothing more than entertainers of a different type, rabble rousers pretending to speak in the name of G-d. So their insults and incitement are protecting in the name of “religious freedom.” It’s your culture, folks, and you are all welcome to it. But keep the shitty culture to your own shores and stop trying to infect the rest of the world with it. It stinks from the shit you allow in it. You know that and so do I.

  • Kellarson

    In response to #175 Zedd who states that noone uses the term “whitey” anymore, well Zedd it has been replaced with “cracker”, where have you been?

  • BBW – it wasn’t America that called it your race…it was you…stop copping out…quit blaming “the man”!

    for comment 185 –

    Zedd – What makes Sharpton a racist? I’d say it’s the things he picks to scream about…at least two of them, Brawley and The Duke case were flat out lies…he never looked at the issue, only at the skin color of the issue. that makes him a racist. And if you really believe that people like him and Jesse can’t start a riot then you’re just an idiot and not worth my time.

    I love the fact that we should compare “every other country” but we can’t compare rappers and Imus!

    Very peacefully? Detroit, Watts, Kansas City, Newark….such peaceful places….always…you remind me of that christmas turkey…full of all kinds of shit!!!!

    Have Jackson or Sharpton ever apologized for what they did to the lacrosse players? that’s one of those rhetorical questions…we all know the answer…don’t we? They don’t have to and you know what, it wouldn’t matter anyway because it would be more insincere than Imus’ apology! Better yet, have either one of them ever apologized when they were wrong??? Yeah, that was another one of those kinds of questions…

    I’m done with you Zedd…anyone that would defend sharpton or jackson ain’t worth talking to….you’re just not.

    And as far as me daring to do anything…go fuck yourself…who are you to tell me what I can or can’t dare to do? How dare you defend the likes of Al Sharpton!

    Have a nice day.

  • JustOneMan

    This is connected to the countries swing to the left. More proof that when the liberals are in control of government and popular culture we lose rather than gain inividual rights and freedoms.

    Freedom of speach and expression is dead!


    PS Until the Rutgers girls all had makeovers so they could be paraded out in public. Before that they sorta did look like “nappy headed ho’s”

  • I read somewhere that Imus had 3 million listeners…in a country of 300 million that means if no one made a big deal out of this than 99% of us wouldn’t have even known about it. Tell me that ain’t some silly shit there!

  • BBW

    Andy Marsh-

    You’re simply not getting my point…im not blaming…I am telling the truth. When will America realize that we are not pointing finger. IT IS REALITY!!! You have never been black…excuse me…African American…you will never be black…so you can not speak from my experience. We have been called everything from a nigger, negro, colored, black and now we are African Americans. Get out of fantasy land, these things happen!!!! I’m not the one who is blaming…look at the title of this blog…now who is blaming who?

  • Zedd


    It is important to make a big deal out of such things. You see we have a sick history in this regard. Reading the comments on this thread tells you that we are a loooooong way from maturing regarding this issue.

    What you miss is that this sort of thing affects how people are treated; whether they are considered with respect; whether their potential is fully acknowledged. Callously treating people like things and inviting your viewership to do the same is destructive to OUR society.

  • it_is_T

    i dont agree with the fact that he shouldt be fired, he should. This isnt the first time hes made a racist comment. Hes been calling people of arab decent “ragheads” for quite some time now. He should have been fired along time ago. And what has Sharpton done in this situation to be fired as well. Demand an apology and resigntaion of a bigot, thats not a problem to me.

  • There it is…I’ve never been black so I can’t possibly understand. But somehow, my cousin’s husband who’s not only black, but lives in an inter-racial household in conservative Phoenix, AZ managed to steer me away from the whole race thing, he gets it….

    Why’s it african american? Why not just american? You label yourself, I didn’t give you that label.

    Should I start calling my self european american? Knowing some of the europeans on BC they’d probably be offended if I did.

    A name is just a name…if I cried every time someone called me a name I’d die from dehydration! and that’s just counting here at BC!

  • Zedd


    at least two of them, Brawley and The Duke case were flat out lies…he never looked at the issue, only at the skin color of the issue.

    I can tell by your sudden out burst of cursing and throwing in the towel that you realise that you don’t know how Al Sharpton is racist do you.

    You don’t knwo what a racist is.

    How cute it is that you think that believing the claims of someone is racist. It only means that your life has been so good and sheltered that you have no understanding of what racism is.

    Also your claiming that Black people are not peaceful is also cute. Its clear that either you are really young or you don’t understand history or world politics. I didn’t say that Blacks don’t live in tough neighborhoods. However even with the places that you have listed, have you been there? Do you know that in most of those neighborhoods it is surprisingly warm and has a flavor of we used to call a neighborhood? I do work in the inner city. I KNOW. Again, you are ignorant of what you speak of. Admit it to yourself and only then will you grow and learn.

    The problem however is that you don’t want to learn. Holding stupid views about Blacks benefits you. You get to think that you are superior, smarter and more responsible. Really informing yourself would erode that notion and who wants to be just one of the masses; not special in any way.

    As for your comment about comparing countries vs comparing Imus and rappers, uhhhhm, I will have to deffer to my original statement that you must be still rather young and don’t have a grasp of what is arguable. Imus is an old White male commentator , who lives in a ranch in the middle of no where. His followers are old and similar to him. How is he to be compared to rappers? HOW? and WHY?

    If you were to compare rappers to 80’s rock bands that would make more sense.

    Anyway, don’t feel defeated or angry, just learn and grow.

    Also stop acting as if you keep up with what Al Sharpton does. You don’t know what he has supported or stood against over the years. You don’t know what he has apologised for over the years. You AGAIN just have this image which you made up in your mind of how he MUST be like and you are wrong.

  • Zedd


    Slow don’t and think.

    Do you get offended when someone says they are Italian? How about Irish? What about German? Or German/Irish?

    Why does AFRICAN American bother you.

    You totally missed what BBM was saying. African Americans don’t know where their ancestors are from in terms of country. They were robbed of that. I know you know this. They do however know what continent they come from.

    Why does that bother you that they acknowledge who they are? Why should what a person calls THEMSELVES bother YOU.

    Its rather odd. Have you figured out what your problem is with that?

    As for your cousin-in-law, his response to you is a coping mechanism that he has developed for himself for when he encounters the issue of race since he chose to marry a White woman. Surely you knew that.

  • The Haze

    We are like we are because of people like you….Zedd. you don’t want fairness or justice and an apology is never enough.If you want blood….you got it.It will never change as long as people think like you.people,people we gotta get over before we go under….sound familiar? A pound of flesh would not make it either. Tell us Zedd….what would it take to make this country a better place to live racially speaking? A black president maybe? you don’t want to live with us,you want to live above us so you can rub the nose in it. sorry does seem to be the hardest word…..for you. homeboy!

  • that’s me…the sheltered little boy…

    you keep believing that…don’t try reading anything…just believe the BS you wanna believe…yeah, I’ve been to every one of those cities…I’ve had a gun pulled on me in one…I’ve seen teens driving stolen cars down the middle of the street in another…I’ve had the cops ask me what I was doing in another one…but yeah, you’re right, I’m sheltered…I’ve only been to about 30 countries too…so very sheltered…

    so it really is a color thing…because Imus is white he has no right to use the words that a black rapper would use…that’s straight up bullshit!

  • Zedd

    Andy (once more)

    There it is…I’ve never been black so I can’t possibly understand

    No. You are ignorant and you don’t get it.

    Admit your lack of knowledge on the subject and then learn. Don’t act like you know and make a complete fool of yourself then attack others because they are correcting your GLARRINGLY obvious ignorance on the subject matter.

    Also I don’t know if you realise that you make giant leaps in your conclusions. If I ask you to explain how Sharpton is racist, you conclude that I am his supporter. That giant leap indicates a clear lack of reasoning ability on your part.

    After reading your contributions, I am certain that you wont understand what I just said but for what it is worth, look into a simple text to help you sort out your thinking skills. It will do wonders for you.

  • Zedd

    STM #190

    You don’t know what you are talking about, PERIOD.

    What you are saying is what should be not what IS.

  • Zedd


    When Chris Rock or Carlos Mencia or Chapelle make fun of white people we can’t say anything.

    Hmmmmm what do these people have in common, let me think hmmmmmm. Oh thats right they are COMEDIANS. They make fun of EVERYONE. White comedians make fun of Blacks too. Its all funny.

    You are not victims by a looooooooooooooooooong shot. Just spoiled brats who haven’t accepted that no one will tolerate White’s disrespect any longer.

    ADJUST and you will be fine.

  • Zedd

    The Haze

    An employee who gets fired for saying something racial is not A POUND OF FLESH.

    Whites are spoiled. Read all of the tantrums and pining over a scum bag. This guy goofed big time and he is paying for it like any employee would.

    My question is why are YOU coming to his defense? Does that not scare you about YOURSELF? Does it not cause you to think that maybe you have issues regarding race that you didn’t know. Off course you don’t think that, you are a product of your time.

    Race matters will heal over time. This incident believe it or not is a healing event.

    You see NEVER in our history have strides in race matters EVER been received positively during that time. Your grand children will look at what happened in this situation and think “off course he needed to be fired, what was the big deal”. Just like you look at the 50’s and the lynchings and say “that was sick”. The people of that time had all sorts of arguments as to why it was understandable to lynch a nigger. They argued like you do today. With the same conviction and the fear that society is crazy like you think TODAY.

    So time will fix this illness that we have.

  • MCH

    “And as far as me daring to do anything…go fuck yourself…who are you to tell me what I can or can’t dare to do?”
    – Andy Marsh

    Yeah Zedd, how dare you disagree with Andy? You must not be aware that he spent 20 years in the Navy.

  • Zedd

    Andy #209

    Just stop. It’s getting embarrassing even for me just reading.

    Lets just stop. I’m getting dizzy from the flush.

    Protest all you like, its natural not to easily admit wrong but make it one of your life’s goals to really know what you are talking about regarding this issue. You are terribly ignorant. You will discover something about humanity and the world that you never knew existed. The world is going to open up for you and you will find beauty in places that you never imagined.

  • I find it every day Zedd…just not here.

  • husky fan

    im not sure if any of you are truly aware of the Rutgers team. They are indeed a scrappy bunch. at one game last year…after a defeat to UCONN…a rutgers player, (who happened to be black) came up to UCONN coach Geno Auriemma and began to yell in his face, taking her pointer finger pivoting it carefully into his suit. pretty classy, huh? Maybe that’s what Imus meant by a “nappy-headed ho?”

  • Thomas Smothers

    This is ridiculous! If this guy said something like that on the air think of what he says off it! My daughter gets called a nappy headed ho, someone is going to get “chin-checked” fast. Rappers say these things about women who are out there acting and carrying themselves like hos; the term isn’t for all women, sort of like all bitches aren’t women? Some of you need to open your eyes, black people aren’t going to take it and particularly, WOMEN of all color ain’t going to take being disrespected.

  • JustOneMan

    Tommy Smothers,

    Please…..”chin-checked”….. “black people aren’t going to take it”…..laughable

    Let me rap it too you “Stop acting like a “nappy headed ho”..


    PS Yo Momma! – in rap of course

  • troll

    Zedd – your gratuitous rudeness does nothing to advance your ’cause’

    and imo even given your definition of ‘racism’ as solely the reflection of institutionalized power relations based on race (which I’m willing to go with for the purpose of argument) you oversimplify the situation:

    you ignore the fact that racist power relations replicate themselves throughout the subcultures in US society making it just about impossible for any but the most sheltered of us to avoid the experience – you assume on scant evidence that whites you converse with haven’t experienced racist oppression and therefore don’t know what it is

    doesn’t that rate as bigoted blindness – ?

    ps – of course he should have been fired…what’s the big deal – ?

  • Hmmmmm what do these people have in common, let me think hmmmmmm. Oh thats right they are COMEDIANS. They make fun of EVERYONE. White comedians make fun of Blacks too. Its all funny.

    Bullshit, Zedd. White comedians don’t make fun of ethnic minotiries and haven’t in 30 years. They can’t get away with it. Their careers are destroyed if they do. Imus is a comedian – albeit not a very funny one – he made fun of blacks and look wher ehe is now.


  • Clavos

    Some points to keep in mind about all this mess:

    This was not Imus’ first time making vile, nasty and even racist comments on the air; those types of comments are his stock in trade. He’s been spewing trash for forty years, and yet politicians and other luminaries have eagerly appeared on his show; in effect endorsing what he does by their very presence on the air with him.

    As you go to the polls in November 2008, remember that these people played along with him: John McCain, Joseph Biden, John Kerry.

    And, the next time you choose a show to watch, remember that Tom Brokaw, Chris Matthews and Tim Russert all were also complicit in giving Imus and his show legitimacy by appearing on it with him.

  • BMW


    I’ll remember this the next time I’m sitting waving my Irish flag at the Saint Patricks Day parade, or when I go to Little Italy for dinner. In fact, I’ll make a point of stopping to tell the next person I see flying the flag of Italy in front his home to stop embracing his cultural heritage and just focus on being American.

    Besides, this defies logic. As you state so clearly in your post you DO know where you come from — AUSTRALIA. You don’t have to link your identity soley to an entire continent or race because that’s all you have.

  • rob

    Wow, Zedd. How open-minded of you to generalize by calling all whites spoiled. And why do you automatically assume that Andy Marsh hasn’t seen anything or has never been to those places. Do you know him personally?

    I’m beginning to think that YOU are a racist. Admit it, you have a genuine hatred toward white people.

    Let’s face it folks. Zedd is right and the rest of the world is ignorant and blind.

  • susan

    Al Sharpton And Jesse Jackson need to step down from their Golden Pulpits……..Become real, work for a living. OH! And say I am sorry to the Duke Players. They certainly owe them one
    “Big Time” They rushed to judge, before they had been to trial. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? We all make mistakes, I am sure Immus feels awful, along with his family. His wife sounds lovely. leave them alone, God forgives, you should too!

  • rob


    I’d love to see 50 Cent take on The Undertaker in a wrestling match. The Undertaker can change his name to Bullet #10 for that match.

    These “oppressed” and pissed-off rappers act so tuff, while there are young female soldiers in Iraq fearing for their lives on a daily basis while defending this country. Those women have more balls than any of these spoiled male gangsta bitches.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem


    Just a point of clarification for you. STM doesn not come from Australia. STM lives in Australia – a country with Irish-Australians, Greek-Australians, Lebanese-Australians, etc. In other words, a land of immigrants, just like America. Except that they did not bring black slaves from Africa – they had white slaves – convicts.

    I don’t think you could get him to live in the United States for anything – and your racial problems are one of those anythings. And after 220 or more comments, it’s pretty clear how serious that particular anything is.

  • troll

    Ruvy – don’t forget that the Aussies had their own indigenous supply of ‘blacks’ for slave fodder as well

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Good catch, troll. I’d have wiser not to written that last sentence in my comment.

  • Clavos

    I don’t think you could get him to live in the United States for anything

    Actually, according to Stan, he did live here (in California) briefly, and he visits frequently.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Clavos, living in a country is very different from visiting – even frequently.

    His mind is in Sydney – not California.

  • Clavos


  • Clavos

    Clavos, living in a country is very different from visiting – even frequently.

    Thanks, Ruvy. I didn’t know that; even though I was born in another country, and have lived (not visited) in a total of three so far…

    But I appreciate you bringing me up to speed.

  • Re #196, education testing results:
    I once asked the Director of Testing for a large school system why race/ethnicity was required information on students’ testing forms and he said, “because the federal government requires it”.

    Now for some self-evident but often-ignored views about racism:

    Nobody ever chose their biological parents.

    Stereotyping is easy, thinking is hard.

    There are good and bad people in all races.

    I am white and grew up in the south. I didn’t know any black people at school, church or in my neighborhood.

    As a young teenager, I started hanging out at a jazz venue “across the bridge” in the black community. I couldn’t go inside because of my age, but I could listen outside the back door. I was accepted by the club’s employees and by the jazz musicians who came out for a break.

    I wasn’t excluded because of race and I wasn’t accepted because of race. They liked me and I liked them because, AS INDIVIDUALS, we were interested in the same thing–music. We had different backgrounds but that wasn’t as important to our friendship as what we could share.

    I learned then to treat others–no matter their age, race, religion, or politics–as individual human beings, deserving of everything that I wanted for myself. Some I like, some I don’t, but it’s because of personality, viewpoint or interests, not prejudice.

    BTW, I met some of the greatest names in jazz there off-stage and informally, who were most patient with my being such a young pest.

  • BBW

    Andy Marsh- KEY WORDS “My cousin’s husband who’s not only black…” -YOU’RE not black!!! Please don’t assume that since you have a black person in your family, you automatically sympathize and comprehend my race. That’s ludicrous. Once again you have no argument.

    Secondly, it became a race issue when Imus also stated that it was like a “Spike Lee thing”. The Jigga-boos v’s the wanna-bees was clearly a skin color issue, dark skin v’s light skin. If you do not understand, please rent the movie “School Dazes”. It’s deeper than skin color.

    Thirdly, no one cares how many countries you have been too. That doesn’t make you an expert on race relations. The fact of the matter is that people have fought, bled, and died because of these names that simply cause you dehydration. Question for you: when you are filling out an application and it asks for ethnicity…do you check American?

  • JustOneMan

    Sharpton needs to call Rutgers Basketball Team out on their racist and bias againg genter and ethnicity!

    Here a quote from Rutgers website –

    “At Rutgers, most minority students are admitted without regard for their race or ethnicity. A small number of students — about 5 percent — are admitted to enhance diversity at Rutgers through their special talents, racial or ethnic background, geographic origin or specialized interests.”

    Code word – “specialized interests” – your BLACK and can bounce a ball or run a 60 yard dash under 6 seconds. Gee how come the womens basketball team does reflect the ethnic make up the school? 80% white 20% Minority!!

    Hey Al and Jesse – “mez dinks wez needs am be an inbestigation”


  • JustOneMan

    heres the link for PROOF

  • The Haze

    Zedd – Your ‘tude is very transparent. bottom line: you are an ass….but a smart one which doesn’t make you more dangerous…just more sad.

  • Jack Smythers

    Imus apologized several times. The so called “Reverend” Al Sharpton is supposed to be about God and forgiveness. A more appropriate name for Alfred Shapton would be “Reverend Hate”. He has produced much slander, bigotry, hatred, and cannot bear to ask fro forgiveness for the harm and damage he has caused to others (eg. Duke Lacrosse team”). He and Jesse are the opposite to Martin Luther King. Al and Jesse are about building racial fires, lynching the white guy, while cashing in on the publicity. Notice that Al says nothing about this whole “Gangsta” culture that stifles today’s youth.

  • Leroy James

    Will “Diamond Merchant” Al Sharpton take over the funding of the “Imus Ranch” for children with cancer now that he got his “dream” and put Imus out of a job.

    Answer: No this “Reverend of God” is too greedy and hateful for that. He’ll run an ad for predatory loans instead (which hurts the little guy). Al Sharpton is to God what Al Capone is to law enforcement.

  • Nancy

    I can’t make up my mind – what’s left of it. On one hand, I’m glad Imus got his; he’s been a-beggin’ for it for a loooooong time. On the other, it IS unfair that rappers & self-anointed scumbags like Sharpton get away with equal or worse comments all the time. I’d like ALL such comments, by persons of whatever race, to be banned; but then, I don’t want to impinge on free speech either. It’s a pity some people have no couth, no taste, & no sense of courtesy to preclude them even making such comments in public.

    Then there’s the incredible farce of Imus’ broadcasters coming out with this pious attitude that he’s Gone Too Far This Time. What hypocritical horsehockey. If they thought it would sell AND they could get away with it, they’d put on someone much worse – because otherwise they’d never have had Imus on to begin with. They only dropped him because sponsors began fleeing the fold & taking their cash with them. Otherwise, if he’d increased ratings, they’d have given him a longer contract. Such lying twofaced encouragement of this sort of thing makes me sick. Part of the blame lies with Imus & rappers & Sharpton & others like them – but a larger part lies with the MSM & media moguls who cater to the worst elements of human depravity to line their pockets, & only back off when public outcry becomes too great, in which instance they always assume a posture of having been hoodwinked by these awful people (i.e. the actual performers or speakers like Imus or the rappers), like they had NO idea what these people they broadcast or publish had been saying. Bullshit. If they weren’t out there marketing these losers for their shock value, there wouldn’t be a demand, because modern advertising is able to create demand in a way not possible 50 or even 20 years ago, but most people these days are of generations that have (for the most part) been conditioned to consume whatever the advertisers pitch them.

    Well, I won’t cry that Imus is gone. Good riddance. Now if someone would only give Sharpton & various rap ‘artists’ their walking papers, too.


  • Nancy

    Actually, we ALL stem from distant African ancestors, so in that sense, no, it isn’t any specific race. We’re ALL ‘black’. You could be more correct I suppose if you say it’s a phenotype, but even that gets amorphous because the lines blur so much. Yet at the same time, forensics does use some measurements & physical characteristics specific to racial ‘groups’ to determine what group skeletal remains would probably belong to. Quite a contradiction, yes?

  • Paotie

    This morning, ESPN in-house idiot, Stuart Scott claimed that Black males calling females “hoes” is really an affectionate term of endearment.

    Maybe the problem isn’t so much that Imus said it; maybe the problem is that Black culture is so used to being put down by other Black people that they’re desensitized to insults from others. But, if a White man uses their own words, somehow, it must make their own words hurt them that much worse.

    What a lovely world.



  • Zedd

    The Haze

    Thanks! I could do without the profanity though. It makes me uncomfortable.

  • Zedd


    You must not watch Comedy Central. Get with the times. White comedians of MY generation make fun of Blacks all of the time.

    Just this weekend this guy had me crying because he was making fun of his experiences in the Black areas of NY City. He was doing the various accents, caricatures and he was making fun of the over dressed Black guys that match from head to toe.

    Perhaps a day outside of the bunker will do you some good.

    People of older generations are nervous to say anything about Blacks because they know that they don’t know what to say because they don’t know Blacks. Younger generations are more comfortable with Blacks of all classes. They know that rappers aren’t really scary and that the nerd in their chemistry class was a Black person. There is still SOME discomfort but its waaaaaay different than it was.

    You can leave the bunker. Put the derringer down and come out for fresh air.

  • Zedd


    Maybe the problem isn’t so much that Imus said it; maybe the problem is that Black culture is so used to being put down by other Black people that they’re desensitized to insults from others.

    I hope you realise that you have a tendency to blame African Americans for the evil of our history and current racist state. What is your real problem and why do you have it?

    There is a culture that is specific to the non hearing community. There are things that you know that you cant even begin to explain to me because its just the way it is. Why not get comfortable with the fact that that is the case with every subgroup. Don’t make it your business to conform them or make fun of them, just accept them and enjoy your life.

    Chastise evil when you see it and don’t try to divert the attention from the evil doer to others.

  • Zedd


    STM (Stan) is a good guy who doesn’t understand the depth that race matters permeate and have formed American society (who would, its really crazy and stupid).


    What I found ridiculous about your comments is how YOU articulately reference history in most of your commentary about Australia. You know the origins of the subgroups of Australia and use their cultures as a way to explain the current situation in OZ. You also speak in detail about British culture and history, explaining current phenomenon with you vast and quite interesting grasp of history. However what you fail to understand is that BBW was saying that AAs don’t have that reference AT ALL. Its like starting from nothing. They were denied the history that flows from your fingers so easily so they have to define themselves based on what they know. They cant say “I am Zulu” or “a Pom” or “I’m Japanese”. They just know that they are African. Even saying that was controversial in the past. So please give them a break! We have people who are proud Italians. Heck there are Italians who don’t even say they are Italian they say they are Sicilian. And don’t forget the Irish. They are a fabric of the American culture. They’ve got pubs everywhere in every town. People celebrate Irishness with them HAPPILY. No one is offended.

    Why the protest against these people who have been so wronged? I don’t understand it. Perhaps you can help me understand.

  • Zedd


    Let me rap it too you “Stop acting like a “nappy headed ho”..

    FLUSH! Hurl, yuck bomb!!


    Stop please! Its really icky and uuuuuugh! You are so off. Stop yourself. You are a fool. Its like speaking broken French in Germany, dressed like a Spanish bull fighter and thinking you are hip. Its just off. STOP!!! Its worse than watching your Dad trying to be hip when your freinds are around.

    I’ve been reading your comments on this thread with one eye open, embarrassed and wincing the entire time. I just cant stand by and watch. Its not even funny any more. STOP. You are dumb in this area. Just let it go. You sound like an idiot.

    Now off course you don’t care because you think that your Whiteness is superior and you don’t have to get anything right about other people and their culture because they don’t matter. Only your culture is significant in the universe…. Crazy isn’t it!

    Anyway, STOP!!!

  • BBW – to answer your question…no I don’t check American…it’s never been an option…neither is italian-american, irish american, scottish american, german-american, swedish-american, portuguese-american…I’m stuck with caucasian…which really has nothing to do with where my people come from…or by definition, the color of my skin either. I must be being discriminated against!

    But if it was an option, considering one side of my family has been here for a couple of hundred years…yeah, I would check American. But normally, I leave it blank…just to piss ’em off!

  • Clavos

    Its worse than watching your Dad trying to be hip when your freinds are around.


  • And reading your comments Zedd, we all can see, you ARE the only one here that really knows how the world turns…

    And frogs fly!

  • Zedd


    You tried really hard. But what the heck are you saying?

    I don’t have a cause. I am just reading these comments which have no bases on reality. Sorry I just am. If a guy from Japan walked up to you and started asking you whats it’s like to rope up a filey or if you’ve been to the Pondarosa, or if you were a wise guy, you would be like “what?”.

    If this guy was upset and started attacking you because HE was off would it mean that you have a cause?

    The posters on this thread are just waaaaaaaaaaay off. I’m reading it and saying “what?”. I try to clear things up and get further attacked and cursed at.

    Welcome to our world.

  • Clavos

    But normally, I leave it blank…just to piss ’em off!

    Glad to hear I’ve got company, Andy…

  • Zedd


    On the free speech thing… this is how I view it. When someone creates a product, it is a form of self expression. The public (consumers, advertisers, investors) has a right to decide if they want to buy it.

    Imus is a product. This product is outmoded and irrelevant for today’s world. The public does not want to buy it any more.

    He is not being censored as a person, its just that he is no longer wanted.

    Thirty years ago a White male could say what he wanted about Women, Asians, Blacks, the disabled and no one would say a word. One would cringe in silence while others laughed.

    Thirty years ago you could buy a typewriter. You’d get frustrated when you made a mistake because it was such a hassle to fix it. If you lost the typed page, you were in trouble.

    We live in a different world. We are refining our tastes and our choices as consumers are getting more adapted to our needs.

    Imus’ situation is not about free speech. He can say the same thing again today, in the middle of town hall and nothing would happen to him. He just cant do that and expect to be paid. Neither can you or I at work.

  • Jerry

    Reverand Sharpton is a racist, the Rutgers girls are not. They have done more for race relations by accepting a sincere apology than Sharpton has in his whole carreer. You wait till Don Imus starts to make amends, have you ever seen him when he is on a mission?

  • Zedd


    You equate Al Sharpton to Hitler? Why?

  • JustOneMan

    “White folks was in caves while we was building empires… We taught philosophy and astrology and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos ever got around to it.” — Rev. Al Sharpton in a 1994 speech at Kean College, NJ, cited in “Democrats Do the Dumbest Things

    Heres the element we are dealing with.

  • Sharpton, CBS/MSNBC execs. Our country is so diverse that you guys don’t even know who to suck up to for ratings anymore.

    If you don’t like it, change the channel. It only becomes an issue if organized means go on the rampage to stomp out ‘nappy headed hos’ in our society.

    Sharpton and CBS are the one’s knocking Rutgers off their championship game virtues. Imus sure didn’t. Imus was impressed with their tough play.


  • rob

    Zedd said, “Imus is a product. This product is outmoded and irrelevant for today’s world. The public does not want to buy it any more.

    He is not being censored as a person, its just that he is no longer wanted.”

    No longer wanted? The day prior to making his comments he was a major cash cow to his employers because he was popular.

    You speak as though you believe that everything you say is Gospel, and no one else’s opinions count. Do you have any friends? I kinda’ doubt it. Who would want to be around you?

    Again, admit that you hate white people. Own up to it. Just say it!

    Lastly, you seem to believe that Al Sharpton has never done wrong. Why?

  • Paotie

    Zedd ..

    In the deaf community, you might be surprised that extreme prejudice exists, and to say, “that’s just the way it is,” sounds counterproductive to say the least. The prejudice within deaf culture is more related to language than anything else – unlike the issue with Blacks, who seem to be stuck as perpetual victims.

    But, you choose to be offended. You can choose not to be offended by Imus. Conversely, Imus is merely an entertainer, much like Jay-Z, NAS and DMX, although NAS and DMX routinely sing about murdering people.

    Sharpton is a hate-monger. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s too bad Obama didn’t get involved and try to keep the peace; we see now what happens when a pimp like Sharpton becomes relevant to the racial problem in America: riots, firebombs and more anger.

    Where is Obama in all of this?



  • Zedd


    You miss the fact that a product has to not only be desired by consumers but by investors and retailers.

    Right now, no one wants to invest or sell him. All retailers get to sell items that they feel represent their image. Investors do the same thing. While profitability is always a factor, image is a component that has a long term result on the viability of the investors, especially if they are advertisers and have products to push.

    One would think that people of character who are disappointed with our current sleaze infested culture would be proud of how industry stood up against a racist bigot. You would think that Whites would be proud that our society has moved so far that we don’t tolerate racists. We shut them down.

    Why are you not proud of America? Why are you angry that a racist was fired?

  • Stinkey

    Would someone please toss a watermelon to Zedd that nappy headed hoe

  • Zedd


    who seem to be stuck as perpetual victims.

    You cant enslave people then change your mind and just lynch and beat them at will then change your mind and just say horrible things about them and if they say you need to stop, you say they are stuck at being a victim. That is just weird and distorted thinking.

    What about focusing on the people that are perpetuating the evil Paotie. What is wrong within you that prevents you from doing that. Check YOURSELF. Forget about African Americans. You’ve got some work to do.

  • Zedd


    Obama spoke out immediately. He said Sharpton needs to be fired. He said he would never go on his show and anyone on his team that suggests that he should will be removed on the spot.

    You just don’t get it.

  • Zedd


    Correction Hehe.

    Obama said Imus should be fired immiediately :o)

  • rob

    I NEVER said that I was angry that Imus was fired. I was never a fan of his. But you say that he’s outmoded and irrelevant in today’s world. Was that before he made the comments, or after. You’re not being clear about.

    I am proud of this country. Where do you get off saying such a thing? You’re really reaching now.

    What I’m tired of is the fact that blacks continually play the victim. Until they stop playing the victim they will never rise up.

    Okay, I’m done with you. You are one-sided, self-absorbed, dilusional, and a racist.

  • rob

    Oh yeah, industry didn’t stand up on their own against a racist bigot. Al Sharpton shook the industry down.

    How an irrelevant piece of shit has the power to do that is beyond me.

  • Paotie

    Zedd ..

    I don’t know. You seem to be stuck in 1860.

    This is 2007.

    I didn’t enslave anyone. The last person I beat up was a large, white man who pushed my girlfriend. I don’t disparage people unless they start with me.

    Deaf people have had it just as bad if not worse – if you want to go that route – as Blacks in this country had it for a long time. Deaf people suffer hardships that Blacks can’t even begin to fathom, and the same could be said vice versa.

    But, I don’t view myself as a victim. If people make fun of me, so be it. If they don’t, so be it. But it’s not always because I’m deaf – it’s almost always because they don’t understand or are uncomfortable with someone who reminds them of their own mortality or the fact they take their hearing for granted. Or sometimes, they want to look like a smart ass for their friends.

    But, if you want to perceive yourself as suffering, that’s your right. I wish there was a way for you to see that you make the choice as to whether or not you’re a victim. You seem to have succumbed to the belief that you will forever be a victim because at one time in this country, somebody close to you was a slave.

    You are becoming a slave to nobody but your beliefs, and the mental enslavement by Blacks who view Sharpton will not help any racial equality movements.

    I know it’s a scary concept, but you will feel enlightened the day you can rise above your victimization, and you will see the beauty of the world without succumbing to the horrors and hatred that run with the past and people like Sharpton.

    C’mon, Zedd. I think you’re a smart person. I think you could do better than being stuck as a victim forever.



  • RJ

    “White folks was [sic] in caves while we was [sic] building empires… We taught philosophy and astrology [sic] and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos [sic] ever got around to it.”


    Did you know:

    There were no written languages developed in sub-Saharan Africa. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

    The more you know…

  • rob

    I said I was done with Zedd, but he still hasn’t answered my question. Perhaps he has no answer, which is fine.

    I’ll ask again: Sure blacks have a history of being subjected to abuse and oppression. What about women? Women have been oppressed since the beginning of time up until 50 years or so ago.. What about Jews? They hadn’t had it so great either. Are blacks more important than the aforementioned?

    Ya’ know, by doing what he’s doing, Sharpton is driving the wedge between blacks and whites even deeper, and he loves it.

    I’m going to start using the word “nigger” on a daily basis and not give a shit who I offend. Even if I get beaten up, I’ll take my beating in the name of free speech.

    Fuck y’all whiney niggaz!

    Y’alls gotsa rise up and kill whitey!

  • RJ


    Becoming a hater in response to haters is probably not the ideal choice to make. Instead, I recommend pointing out their hypocrisy, while refusing to be mau-maued by their vicious tactics.

  • BBW

    Andy Marsh-

    “BBW – to answer your question…no I don’t check American…it’s never been an option…neither is italian-american, irish american, scottish american, german-american, swedish-american, portuguese-american…I’m stuck with caucasian.”

    MY POINT EXACTLY!!!! ::Pounds gavel:: Case dismissed…


    Please dont do that…you may end up a little more than just beat up…you all say “niggers” are violent! lol

  • JustOneMan

    “Where is Obama in all of this?”

    He am be in da house wit da master! He da “Dumbocratic House Nigga”! Shazaam!


  • rob


    Many (too many…one is too many) young black children are killed in gang-related crossfire each year. Are these white gangs?

    Blacks killing blacks every day. It’s a shame. How can whitey help? Tell me, please. How can whitey help the black community when blacks insist and practically strive to enslave themselves? Tell me how I can help, Zedd. I’m being sincere here. What can I do to help? If I knew of downtrodden black neighborhoods that the residents wanted to clean up, take pride in, and needed help in doing so, I’d be one of the first to go into the city and lend a hand. Honestly. I’d work right along side of Sharpton, but I’m sure he wouldn’t show up. Which would be good for me because he’d probably have me killed even though I’m not Jewish.

  • rob


    I totally agree. Those last two ignorant comments were made in jest, though.

    Ya’ know, Howard Stern could say on the air exactly what I wrote and get away with it. If Imus were smart he would have hired a token BLACK FEMALE to hide behind too. How can you call Stern racist and sexist? His side-kick is a black woman.

    Anyway, I’m just trying to get a bit of a rise out of ‘ol Zedd. Is that his real name or did he choose a cracker name like that just to be ironic? I like Zedd. He’s a funny guy.

  • Stinkey

    rob, I like spear chuckers myself.

  • rob

    Honestly Zedd, I admit that I have a lot to learn about black history and their present condition. However, what went on and continues to escalate surrounding the Imus/Sharpton debacle is right there on the surface. No critical thinking is necessary. They’re both wrong. But at least Imus apologized. Sharpton never apologized for any of his wrong-doings, which were certainly more severe than what Imus said on the air.

    The big difference between you and I, Zedd, is that I don’t hate. That and the fact that you use bigger words.

    I’m disappointed in both the black and white of all of this. But part of your problem is that everything to you is simply black and white. No gray area with you, buddy.

  • “White folks was [sic] in caves while we was [sic] building empires… We taught philosophy and astrology [sic] and mathematics before Socrates and them Greek homos [sic] ever got around to it.”

    This is a terribly selective and misguided statement.

  • BMW

    Paotie: You continue to amaze me. Imus called the Rutgers women ‘nappy-headed’ and then his producer called them “jigaboos” on top of that. Sadly you apparently don’t realize both of those terms are just as hurtful and vicious as the “N” word. If you had any clue about the depth of the insult you wouldn’t be writing this post. Adding the term “ho’s” was just icing on an ugly, nasty cake.

    I find your earlier comment likening the comments Imus made to someone calling cheerleaders “blonde bimbos” apalling. That’s a gross understatement. What he said is closer to calling these innocent Rutgers athletes “trailer trash sluts” — with a racial twist.

    Since you’re obviously not aware how offensive what Imus said really is, I suggest you don’t try calling a black woman in a bar (or anywhere else) ‘nappy-headed’ to her face. Telling a child to “go brush your naps” is far from a term of affection. Those words have long been taunts of contempt and humiliation. If your sister-in-law is indeed telling this to her child, that to me is the same catergory as blacks who call each other ‘nigga.’

    I find your lack of understanding about this interesting, but apparenly not unusual. I watched Harry Smith on the Early Show questioning the head of the National Association of Black Journalists early this week (who, along with Al Roker, the National Association of Women and a host of others, also called for Imus to be fired). He obviously missed the point too. Smith kept asking his guest “when is it okay to use that term?” Which term? was the question I was hoping the reporter would fire back. They are all equally repugnant.

    Racist slurs have no place in entertainment. Period. It has nothing to do with “choosing not to be offended.”

    Here’s information from MSNBC that might help you understand the depth of the insult.

  • Jerry

    Simply…..blacks are by far more racist then whites, period. Furthermore, black “idiots” like Sharpton and Jackson only further racism and hate by continually, intentionally pissing off more and more whites with their hate speech. All to continue to create more hate and racism….so they can have jobs. PERIOD.

    When will the African Americans wake up in this country?

  • BMW

    Arch Conservative:

    Your analogies are all wrong. The comments you list are certainly questionable, hurtful (and racist) associations, but they don’t reference a specific racial slur.

    Imus made a nasty, hurtful reference exploiting a characteristic generally (and negatively) attributed to a certain race. Then, adding insult to injury, he added another racial epithet that is rarely used. However, It doesn’t matter that the term is rarely used. It is still racist and ugly all the same. What Imus said was more in line of a radio announcer calling an Asian person a “slant-eyed coolie” on the air. In fact, I feel the same outrage, pain and disgust using this phrase even only in explanation as Imus (and all his supporters) should feel by the words he *intentionally* used in his sorry attempt at humor.

    You asked if Ray Nagin calling New Orleans a “chocolate city” was racist. Calling someone chocolate isn’t a racial slur as far as I know. If Nagin threatened to keep ‘white blue-eyed pigs’ out of New Orleans, that would be a racist slur somewhat on par with Imus’s comments.

  • MCH


    I agree with about 95% of what you’re saying on this thread. Most, but not all, of the opposing comments are pretty ignorant.

    And I think you’re doing a great job standing up to the wolf-pack bullying they’re doing. Keep on keepin’ on, Zedd.

  • Clavos


    Well said.


  • BMW


    Oh please! How arrogant can you be?

    You choose not to be offended by comments because you *can* choose to do so. I’m also deaf. How quickly we forget that it was the ADA that made it easier for us, which took effect because of people doing some heavy duty complaining and getting indignant about pervasive negative attitudes and the lack of a level playing field that made it almost impossible for disabled people to work and live in the mainstream. To hear you tell it, advocates for people with disabilities should have just smiled, remained silent and not allow themselves to be “victimized” by others by demanding things change. They should have just ignored the fact that the cards were stacked against them.

    Since there is free speech in this country, people who thought it was okay to call them “cripples” and “crazies” and who felt that making things accessible for all was too big of an inconvenience to implement should have just been ignored and not be challenged. So what if the prevailing thought was “Let them stay home, hidden and out of sight, don’t let them in our schools and places of business. We don’t want ‘normal’ people to see them and feel guilty…” Who cares what they think anyway? How so very hypocritical.

    Have you ever been denied a job because your hair was too “nappy?” Have you ever been stopped at the airport and strip-searched because of how you look? Do people cross to the other side of the street when you walk by just because you’re deaf? What about getting thrown in jail for life for smoking pot while the rich guy across town who committed murder got off on probation? Probably not. And we’re talking about what’s going on in 2007, not 1896.

    It’s so easy to judge someone and tell them what they should or should not do when you’re not walking in their shoes.

    I also have to say that your earlier comments about Denzel Washington and the movie Training Day defie common sense. Next I guess you’ll be making people offers they can’t refuse because you saw them do it in the Godfather? Or maybe you’ll start calling Italian cops nasty names because Sean Connery did it in the Untouchables?

    I should feel free to tell my pastor that the ten commandments are a “BS list” because George Carliln said so? Jeff Foxworthy calls people Rednecks. So that means we all get free license to do it too?

    There’s a heavy metal song with lyrics that extoll the vitues of beating your wife and hitting her with a two-by-four. Does that mean we should all accept domestic violence as the norm? Should we now talk freely about beating up women with blunt objects on the air because some heavy metal singer said so?

    Besides Denzels’ comments in Training Day reflect the film’s ironic twist of a black cop exploiting and abusing a white rookie cop, instead of vice versa. It had nothing to do with a term of endearment. It was a term of contempt.

  • rob

    “Most, but not all, of the opposing comments are pretty ignorant.”

    That’s a matter of opinion. You shouldn’t state it as fact.

    Well, Bill Maher completely pussed out tonight during his chat with Sharpton. It’s the first time I’ve ever seen Bill nervous. He had the perfect opportunity to call Sharpton on his blatant hypocrisy, but he blew it. Why is everyone so afraid of this guy?

  • STM

    Ruvy wrote: “His mind is in Sydney – not California.”

    True, but I do like California … and Americans generally. Having been there, I put aside any notions I might have had prior to that. I don’t think I’ve ever been treated so kindly on my travels as I was in the US – by blacks, whites, orange people or callathumpians.

    I just wonder sometimes how the people who complain about what a raw deal they get in the states really realise how lucky they are.

    I realise it’s far from perfect, and some people DO get a raw deal, but by and large it’s pretty damn good.

    Just not as good as Australia 🙂

    And to troll: do your research about black slavery in Australia. Exploitation, genocide (in Tasmania) yes, low pay for indentured sugar cane workers from the Pacific Islands, yes, slavery, no. The only true slaves here were WHITE.

  • Zedd


    Who do you think hates?

    Calm down, you are taking the Imus thing too hard. Breath……..

    I don’t hate anyone. I don’t care enough to hate really. You guys don’t understand, we know racism. We live with it.

    I am just responding to you guys’ posts but the Imus thing is not moving to me. Yes he needs to loose his job….next.

    What I am smirking about is your responses to the entire thing and just how irate you are and waaaaaay off about Blacks.

    But hate? Nope. I do however secretly enjoy all of the melt down that is taking place. (Snicker)That is as evil as I get.

    Big words? Me?….. not these days. I’ve toned down quite a bit. It took to much effort to explain what I was saying so I just use the first grade speech. I find it helps with communication.

  • STM

    BMW wrote: “Besides, this defies logic. As you state so clearly in your post you DO know where you come from — AUSTRALIA. You don’t have to link your identity soley to an entire continent or race because that’s all you have.”

    Am I missing something here? That is exactly the point I am trying to make. Yes, my background is anglo-celtic. But I don’t walk around saying I’m an Anglo-Celtic Australian. I know where I come from today: it’s Australia, as you point out. You know where you come from as well: AMERICA.

    I am not trying to minimise what happened in the past, BTW, just suggesting that as African Americans were the second largest non-indigenous group to populate the modern state that became the US and that it is now a long time ago, it might be time just to regard yourselves as Americans.

    I thought that was what the civil rights movement was all about in the 1960s. Wasn’t it about making America colour-blind?? If so, why continue to make a big deal of it?

    I work with a guy who is English. That’s what he is. He’s from London, and grew up there. He has a cockney accent and is a great bloke. He also happens to be black, and is descended from slaves sent to the West Indies, but he’s English. The only discrimination he gets here is because of his poncy-sounding English accent. And he’s annoyingly bloody patriotic when it comes to sporting contests between the two countries.

    This nonsense that leads people to draw lines because of their race only perpetuates the kind of racism that led to the whole sorry thing in the first place.

    If you really want to change attitudes, in 2007, it’s probably time to let it go forever. There’s never been a better time for America to become a truly inclusive society, given the current threat from outside.

  • Zedd


    Try to focus don’t get distracted.

    Are you proud that in 2007, Imus was fired for being a racist at his job?

  • Zedd


    Please tell us all what a Pom is.

    Just stop it. You are reaching. You know darn well what she is saying. You talk of Japanese and Arabs and Poms. You are being hypocritical and are just attacking her because you don’t want to come out in support of this racist. You are hot under the collar because of Imus but know that he is a jerk and you don’t know were to take your steam.

    Your argument is meaningless and you yourself do not practice it. You speak of the various groups in Australia based on their ancestral homes.

    Cut it out!

    BBM – Ignore STM, he is just talking. He doesn’t even believe what he is saying.

  • Clavos

    A Pom is an Englishman, Zedd…

  • Zedd


    If you really want to change attitudes, in 2007, it’s probably time to let it go forever.

    How about you doing that. How about you just letting what you think is whining go. Just ignore it and see what happens.

    You see at every stage of progress regarding race issues, their complaints were ALWAYS thought to be whining and enough. Every generation, every step of progress has always been enough is enough. You are just like every generation of Whites over history. So why don’t you do something revolutionary and just go with the progress. Accept that we are a sick nation regarding race matters and that we need to change.

    What you display currently is nothing new. In generations to come, people will see your views as horrible and evil, like you view the beaters and murderers of the more racist past. You will be the bad guy in the future.

    The people of our past argued just like all of you are arguing. They believed and they objected with the same conviction. They were kind people, who went to church and were people’s grandma’s and baked cookies but they supported the evils of their time with all of their hearts like you do today.

    The challenge is for YOU to let it go.

    There is nothing for Blacks to let go of. We are not perpetuating Imus’ comments or some of the vile comments that you have read on this thread AND SAID NOTHING ABOUT.

    Have you noticed that there are only two or three Blacks on this thread that are commenting on this subject? There are however all manner of Whites who have come out of the wood works.

    Who needs to let it go? Who is being defensive?

    Imus goofed Paotie. Accept that and let it go.

  • rob

    Taking the Imus thing too hard? Irate?

    Not once did I feel irate about anything that was said. Are you watching me? Do you see my facial expressions or monitoring my heart rate?

    I am very proud and happy that a blatant racist was fired for being just that. I am not proud of the fact that a hypocrite like Sharpton thinks of himself as the Leader of the Black Community. That is insulting to blacks.

    Still, I can’t believe that you expect folks in this forum to explain to you why Sharpton is a racist. Do you know anything about Sharpton’s history?

    Do your homework…don’t get distracted. And stop talking down to people as though they are infants. You’re a real cocky fucker, aren’t you.

  • Zedd

    By the way so that we can stop saying nappy headed out of context.

    It means that you have not relaxed the natural curl in your hair. You have an unkempt, tangled afro style.

    Imus was out of context (OFF) and so are all of you who are using it on this thread.

  • rob

    “There is nothing for Blacks to let go of. We are not perpetuating Imus’ comments”

    WHAT?! When was the last time you listened to hip hop? Blacks create and perpetuate rape, drugs, murder, pimping, and disrespect through music. Hip Hop is EVERYWHERE. Young kids are influenced more through that shit than they are by some 60-something ignorant white guy on the radio.

    Wake up.

  • rob

    Thanks for the lesson in hairstyles.

    Well, I’m officially out of here and never to return.

    Blacks need to get their shit together and take responsibility for themselves. The Man aint keeping you down. Blacks DO have something to let go of…………………..

  • Zedd


    If SATAN himself came out of hell to say that Imus is a racist and should be fired, it would not make Imus any less of a jerk and any less deserving to be robbed of his riches from spouting racist garbage.

    Why are you so concerned about Al Sharpton? He is not the subject. Its Imus.


    Why are you wanting a diversion. Focus on the great thing that has happened in our society. We are growing and shedding ourselves from our racist past every day. Amen!!!

    Don’t behave as someone who is defensive and start attacking someone who has nothing to do with the racist act.

    BTW “nappy headed, jigaboo, ho’s” vs “diamond merchant”…. I mean really even you have got to chuckle at the ridiculousness of the comparison. Unless you are in argument mode and blind with fervor. Its silly, come on.

    BTW call me a diamond merchant anytime you are mad at me. I’ll try to survive it.

  • Zedd


    By the way. I am very female. If I were born male, I’d be a drag queen.

  • rob

    I just came back to see what Black Jesus had to say after I made my exit.

    What the hell is he/she/whatever talking about now? Did I refer to your gender once in this here thread? Whatever it is, it’s all-knowing and you should all bow down before it and worship it.

    Okay, I’m really leaving this time…seriously.

  • STM

    I agree that Imus behaved like a fu.kwit. Stupidity is his real crime, and for that he alone he probably deserves to be punted. Calling college students nappy-headed hos is clearly an absurd action. I’d have sacked him too. It’s not even funny. And yes, it does have undercurrents of racism. But the hoo-ha over it is the real story.

  • Zedd


    The initial hoo-ha caused his being fired. Without hoo-ha such things don’t happen in the US.

    I wonder what you would say about the White commenters on this thread in an Australian paper? Don’t have to answer. I am just curious though.

  • Zedd


    Still, I can’t believe that you expect folks in this forum to explain to you why Sharpton is a racist. Do you know anything about Sharpton’s history?

    I know faaaaaar more than you and all of the people who have been commenting on this thread do, about Sharptons history. That is why I am posing the question. No one has answered it.

    Accept to say he said “diamond merchants” and “White Interlopers”. What is that any way? I know that an interloper is something that prevents information from passing through but I am not understanding the racist element in that phrase.

  • Paotie

    BMW ..

    Your ignorance smells.

    *sniff sniff*

    Been wearing Brute, eh?

    It’s quite obvious you’re not deaf, not disabled and completely miss the point of the ADA, it’s implications and scope of applications.

    Your ignorance shows.

    A man with Down’s Syndrome could even understand that the ADA is a watered-down document, already under attack by GOP Justices in the 6th Federal Circuit. And, you would also know that the ADA is a weak mandate, full of broad and ill-defined definitions, and loop-holes large enough for 500 pound obese folks who require 10 pounds of bacon each morning to survive, to dance sailing through.

    Nice try.



  • Paotie

    BWM ..

    One more thing – you’re not gonna win a bitching contest with me about who has it more difficult in finding a job. It’s counterproductive, serves no purpose, and you’ll lose everytime.

    If people won’t hire you because of your hair, then you don’t want to work there, anyway. If people call you crazies and stupid names, so what? You’re not gonna have my sympathy.

    I can relate to how difficult it can be to find a job. I can understand the frustration at repeatedly trying to find employment suited to your educational background. I know this more than you ever will, buddy.

    Let it go.



  • Kellarson


    As you stated to me that Chris Rock, Carlos Mencia and Dave Chapelle are comedians therefore they can say what they want, well so is Don Imus. While he did read the news, he was also a comedian, so what is the difference. To say that I am spoiled because I am white, what a very ignorant thing to say. How do you know if I am spoiled? Because African Americans were treated unfairly in the past; somehow means that now all of you are treated unfairly. Well women were treated unfairly in the past does that mean that I am now? NO. Stop acting like the victim and don’t tell me that you don’t have the same opportunities as everyone else. Spoiled? Lets see I work about 70 hours a week in a job where I am one of the only white people. I have been called a cracker more times than I care to count. I have been discriminated against because of being white quite a bit, so don’t tell me that I am spoiled. But I also have many black friends and those friends don’t act like victims, they don’t see me as white, they see me as a person, and I don’t see them as black. As I said before I will not apologize for being white; nor should I, Reverend Al Sharpton in the 1980’s called Dinkins a “Nigger”, and in the background all of his followers were cheering. Yes this is ultimately about what Imus said, and I say, again, so what? So what if he said that. If I had a child and heard what Imus said, I would just say to my kid, you are above that, he doesn’t speak for all of us. There are people like that in this world and I would move on. Remember the old line sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me, a child’s saying, but it is true. Don Imus shouldn’t be remembered just for this, he should be remembered for his charity work and only a handful of you seem to comment on that. He helped children and was asked to leave on the day of his telethon. If the Rutgers girls have accepted his apology then you should to, after all it was them that he hurt. Jedd, you are acting like a victim and it is not very becoming. Grow up you are an adult, not all white people are bad, you are the one acting like a racist here.

  • D.Mehle

    I’d say that the only people who should be offended are those who use that kind of gutter language, because frankly,I really don’t know what they mean by “nappy headed hos”.Perhaps those in the know should get on MSNBC and enlighten us. in my world nappy means rough fabric
    and hoe Im pretty familar with, I used it to bust up dirt clods in my garden.
    Don’t get me wrong’ I’am quite aware of the way the english language has been bastardized,thats why when “peeps”start crying how English should be required in order to be an american’should first get all americans to speak English if you know what I mean.
    As far as Imus goes,I”ll admit throughout the years I”ve listened to the Imus show simply because it was a “radio varity show”and I was well aware of what I might hear on the program,and if I did not want to hear what he was saying I simply tuned out or turned off.
    Should he have been held accountable for what he said, I’d say yes,but like I said,I was not offended,though I did go out to the shed and apologize to my garden “HOE”.

  • Kellarson

    Well said Dave, AHHH a breath of fresh air.

  • super45

    The length of this blog says it all really. The mainstream media continues their relentless feeding frenzy of sensationalist trash journalism, and all of you gob it up, bite after bite. Most of you wouldn’t even have known that these comments were made if it wasn’t for the major “news” organizations plastering it all over the place, instead of reporting on things the DO effect our every day lives, like crappy medical care for one.

    Americans need to prioritize their anger and focus it at appropriate causes. It proves how freakin’ sad we are in this country when things like this become top news headlines, it only serves to EMPOWER racism, just read through this blog to see what I mean.

    Imus is a fool,looks and acts like a decomposed corpse, and Sharpton is a self serving, mockery of civil rights who wouldn’t be worthy enough to shine Dr. King’s shoes.

  • Zedd


    You misunderstood what I meant by spoiled. I am not talking about your physical output or your economic competency. I am speaking about your perspective. You see when your world view is considered ideal and you don’t care to understand other’s world view; you actually chastise and belittle others for not seeing the world like you do, and you feel that their lives are just simply wrong….. They however know your culture and understand it well and they know that you don’t know much about them and allow you to think that you do, it makes you spoiled.

    Not having people disrespect you in the manner that White American males disrespect every non European culture in the world, based on wrong information and expect that they have a right to do so because of their superior status and natural knowing ability means that they are brats.

    What happened with this war, although you won’t understand what I am saying is an indication of this phenomenon.

    You are clueless yet you don’t get socially reprehended for being so abysmally ignorant about the majority of people on the planet. You however are mercilessly critical of people who don’t know your culture. You view them as mentally inferior for not knowing your ways. As I have said before, people of most other cultures tolerate Whites ignorance and have learned to just snicker after you have left.

    Don’t be so confident about your Black friends and what they think of you. Dave I could be one of those guys. I don’t go around discussing race issues with Whites. I smile and am polite and accommodating. It’s a coping mechanism for us. KNOW that your Black friends see you goofy White ways and will never tell you. Look at the tantrums on these boards. You won’t know how to handle it and you will see it as hate or an attack of sorts like a typical brat.

    I don’t feel like a victim. There is no way that I could excel under the circumstances that we exist in and feel like a victim. I feel very capable; I strive for excellence and am in push mode. You see regardless of racism this is MY life.

    Whites and how they have lorded over people for centuries is a nuisance for sure but this is MY life and I live it abundantly. I don’t think I’m a victim, I think whites are clueless. That is what you miss.

    Saying you don’t get it doesn’t mean that I feel like a victim. You don’t get it!

    Saying you are wrong, doesn’t mean I feel like a victim. You are wrong!

    You see by thinking that I feel like a victim suggests that somehow I feel over powered or inferior in some way. Your culture’s ignorance is and has been an annoying joke for us for centuries. It is baffling and some times tiring. You see when you know something and the ignorant, even stronger person aggressively insists that they are superior and you know nothing, it doesn’t make you feel victimized. It just makes you feel like the person is a strong and powerful idiot. You may get fed up or just tired of him but you certainly don’t feel like a victim to the idiot.

    That is the real picture.

    To help you get it…. When you watch or read about some of the occurrences in the 60’s (40 years ago) and you hear how Whites viewed Blacks, it seems really stupid doesn’t it. I mean it’s really ignorant and irrational. Well, it was really stupid and irrational to Blacks then, like it is to you now. Blacks laughed and made fun of Whites reasoning then. They faked fear and inferiority when they were among Whites but off course they just thought they were stupid, because, well, they were. Well when people make comment about Blacks like they have on this thread that don’t reflect anything about the Black community, comments that are just embarrassingly off, they seem really stupid and irrational. I don’t feel victim hood (why would I. they are the ones who are stupid), I feel that the posters are stupid and ignorant about this issue.

    So lesson one about Blacks. It’s not victim hood, its annoyance or ambivalence, nausea or exhaustion but not victim hood. It’s hard to feel like a victim if the offender is an idiot. You just want them to stop.

  • Zedd


    #310 is actually a response to you.

    Dave Nalle

    Sorry bud I misattributed the post.

  • dumb white guy

    Man, this Zedd person is really full of herself. Get your head out of your textbooks and get out there and experience your culture. Personally I think you’re full of mud.

    Not all white people are stupid, as you choose to generalize. And not all blacks are super-intelligent. Many of them are clueless.

    Get over yourelf already.

  • Zedd


    I got to you didn’t I? That wasn’t my intention.

    Just think about what I have said. Know that you don’t know Blacks like you think you do.

    Know that no one feels like a victim.

    Know that rappers or “leaders” don’t incite anyone to do anything. Just like ACDC didn’t make you do anything (if you are an 80’s kid). I don’t think you started worshiping the devil and wearing women’s clothes and makeup because of the hair bands.

    Know that Sharpton and Jackson are vehemently against the rap lyrics that have been spoken about. Jackson cries tears when addressing this issue.

    Know that neither Jackson or Sharpton are the problem. RACISM is.

    Next time get mad and stay mad at the racist.

  • rj

    Thank god someone finally got rid of that idiot, i would rather listen to the sound of nails on a chalk board then to listen to that old, good for nothing pile any longer. what a racist peice of crap.

  • Zedd says…You misunderstood what I meant by spoiled. I am not talking about your physical output or your economic competency. I am speaking about your perspective. You see when your world view is considered ideal and you don’t care to understand other’s world view; you actually chastise and belittle others for not seeing the world like you do, and you feel that their lives are just simply wrong…..They however know your culture and understand it well and they know that you don’t know much about them and allow you to think that you do, it makes you spoiled.

    What an arrogant fucker you are…to assume that you know anyones life or culture here any better than they know yours…you really are a piece of work!

  • dumb white guy

    Sharpton is anti-semitic. He has incited riots in the past which caused a store owner his life as well as others. He never apologized for that scam involving a teenage girl who was encouraged to lie about being raped, beaten, and left in a dumpster. He is certainly a racist and a hypocrite. He calls himself a reverand. That’s just wrong. He doesn’t care about the girls on the Rutgers team. He saw this as an opportunity to get back into the spotlight.

    The blacks need to pull together, get their neighborhoods cleaned up, think hard before deciding to have children just to perpetuate gang violence, before they go after the whites. Blacks expect us to hold their hands and fix everything for them.

    I’m tired of hearing them whine already,

  • dumb white guy

    “you actually chastise and belittle others for not seeing the world like you do”

    You do the same thing! You’ve got that Sharpton mentality.

  • dumb white guy

    You made a comment to someone about ACDC and 80’s hair bands. They certainly didn’t ifluence me. I wasn’t into that music. I was listening to Coltrane, Robert Lockwood Jr, and Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. Real black ARTISTS.

    Are you trying to compare ACDC to gangsta rap? If so, you should no yourself the kind of negative influence gangsta rap and black prison culture has on young blacks and whites.

    It’s disgraceful and it’s not helping your cause.

  • Doug Hunter

    Zedd, as a member of a victim group feels comfortable, even proud of herself, for spouting racist nonsense especially towards whites. It’s a sad, self destructive coping mechanism. Unfortuantely, any attempt to criticize her method or ways will only reinforce her victim mentality and unleash another of her racist verbal barrages.

  • What’s the difference?

    First of all, I don’t agree with the statement Imus made. But, what is the difference between a white person making that comment than a black person? I watched a spot on MTV on 4/13/07. The skit was call “So, you have to work with a white person”. Then, it proceeded to present, dorky white people and portray them as idiots. Basically, the skit was to educate blacks on how to understand whites. They commented, whites are always happy. Then, an actor comes up and tells the dorky white man that his entire family has just been killed in a horrible death. The man then says something like oh well, that is ok, can’t win them all, or something like that. What does that mean? White people don’t care if their families die a horrible death?
    The point is this, how come black comedians and other media can slam white folks from everything to the way they dance, look, talk, body parts size and any other comment to make a joke and expect everyone to laugh. But, if a white person makes a joke or makes the slightest attempt to fit into the black culture, it is a racial issue.
    So, everyone needs to quit making fun of others cultures, which will never happen. So, don’t take it so hard. Whatever happened to the days of Bill Cozby? He was funny. But, he didn’t drag race into it.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Shavua Tov,

    Wow! I count 320 comments above this one! Paotie, you hit a jackpot with this article! I mean, you haven’t reached Al Barger’s high with his article on the visions of Mary in 1917 Portugal, or the huge pile of comments that Bird of Paradise’s article on Michael Jackson’s supposed conversion to Islam generated, but you are getting up there.

    Race is definitely a problem in the good old US of A. You have hit a nerve similar to the one that Imus hit with his “nappy haired whore” comment. Imus did deserve to get fired. But the “Reverend” Al Sharpton in particular deserves some kind of punishment for his actions. His racial incitement has caused more than one death in the city of New York and he pimped a lie about a girl supposedly being raped and left for dead.

    King David, instructing his son Solomon on his deathbed, described the actions of a man named Shimei who cursed him out as he was fleeing a rebellion of his son, Absalom. When he returned victorious after Absalom’s, death Shimei asked David’s forgiveness for having cursed him out. David promised not to kill him. But he did not forget either the hurt he felt or the oath he had taken to Shimei. Look it up in the Book of Kings I [I Kings 2:8-10] It is instructive how David deals with the problem…

  • sharpton is ripping off the blacks for money,as he yells racism,bigot,coward,thief i hope he burns in hell.now nappy headed hos is a household word what would have blown over now lingers on. just to line his pockets with some coin.what a loser

  • Paotie

    Ruvy –

    I was surprised also at the reaction to Imus’ firing. I wonder if it says more about White America’s frustration with double standards, or if it’s really just the fact a racist idiot like Sharpton got involved and facilitated Imus’ firing.

    But, fortunately, we were able to forget about Anna Nicole Smith for once. What a tragic life, but, c’mon man. She’s dead, her sperm count revealed a lottery winner amidst a pool of would-be-fathers and frankly, I’d just as soon the whole sordid ordeal just go away permanently.

    Crazy days, dude.



  • BMW


    Your arrogance smells much worse than anything I may or may not know or any experience I may or may not have had. But speaking personally as a person with a disability who is also taking care of a disabled family member, I certainly know exactly what the ADA is and isn’t. Of course you completely missed or ignored the point. The ADA with all of its faults came from people refusing to tolerate the same type of negative attitudes from which Imus’s ugly rantings hailed. It came from not tolerating these types of attitudes and challenging the status quo…something you are now calling blacks ‘victims’ for doing now with Imus.

    But that’s okay. Usually people side-step the issue or change the subject when they realize have no arguement.

    My other point, as you already know, had nothing to do with who may have difficulty finding a job. It had to do with dispelling the myth you perpetuate that racist behavior, attitudes etc., were valid back in the 1800s, but here today they holds no relevance. It’s easy for you to say if someone doesn’t like your hair, get another job. If job after job does it too, what do you do? Starve? Yeah, right…

  • Paotie

    BMW ..

    Aww .. disabled, are ye?

    Aww .. a disabled caretaker of another disabled person, are ye?

    Aww .. black, are ye?

    Aww .. a victim, are ye?

    (sounds like a pattern)

    *sniff sniff*

    I smell a rat.



  • Paotie

    BWM ..

    If people don’t hire you because of your hair, then do something about it. I used to have shaggy, long hair because I associated in snowboarding/skateboarding circles as a lad, and nobody would hire me until I cut my hair.

    What the fuck are you talking about?

    “I can’t find a job ‘cos nobody will hire me ‘cos of my nappy hair.”

    Get over yourself, dude.




  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Anyway, if Imus should be fired for his racially insensitive comments, then Sharpton ought to be banned from the public eye permanently for his racially insensitive comments. Imus’ comments alone would be worthy of a sea of boos cascading throughout America. I don’t think it was racially motivated, and I know it might’ve been insensitive to many, especially blacks, but Sharpton is guilty as much as Imus for being racially insensitive.

    Sharpton doesn’t believe in tolerance. Sharpton isn’t interested in tolerance at all. Tolerating another person means to tolerate their views, however different you might think they are. Sharpton and others all agree that Imus is a good man, but a crime was committed and someone has to pay for it. I’m not saying that Sharpton merely needs to absolve Imus of his sins; I’m saying Sharpton only wants one thing: vengeance. Perhaps Sharpton really should be accepting Imus’ apologies and leave the issues for the public to decide. It’s no shock that Imus has said offensive things a time or two in his colorful past, but then again, that’s Imus’ chosen profession. Who are we to judge him for providing for his family, just like Sharpton does?

    Both use the media and public to advance their objectives; both are political hot commodities at different intervals; both see the ebb and wane of their ability to reach out to the public. Both are probably mirror images of one another, even if they use completely different mechanisms. Shame on Don Imus for his stupidity. Shame on Al Sharpton for being a political pimp.”

    After 320 odd comments, the key element, the content of Paotie’s article, seems to have been forgotten. All of you out there who are defending blacks or AA’s or whatever you want to call “Americans of color” need to re-read and pay close attention to the words of this man. He speaks with wisdom and intelligence.

    In comment #320, I essentially called for something far worse for Al Sharpton than being banned from the media. In his words and acts, Al Sharpton has incited murder AND GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT! All of you whining for Imus’ head on a platter seem to have conveniently forgotten that. Under Israeli law, that slimy manipulative bastard would be doing prison time now.

    If Don Imus goes, then Al Sharpton must, too – at the very least.

  • dumb white guy


    You wanted to know why Al Sharpton (he’s not a real Reverend) is a racist, accountable for inciting riots and murder, a hypocrite, and an all-together street thug who came up in the sixties with a microphone by using his own people to make a name for himself.

    Well, follow this link then scroll to the bottom of the page under Controversies. This is not new news. It’s just info. that no one in the mainstream media has the balls enough to bring up while interviewing this piece of garbage.

    Do your homework…stay focused…ask questions, Zedd.

    Fo’ shizzle ma nizzle.

  • dumb white guy

    Post #328 – The link takes you to the wrong page. Here’s the correct URL: Al Sharpton.

  • RUDY



  • Zedd

    Dumb White Guy

    I keep up with what Al Sharpton has to say. I don’t have to read up on him because of Imus.

    Thanks though.

    Perhaps its you who needs to do a more thorough reading on why he says what he says.

    You see if our world was like yours, he would be a strange and paranoid person. But its not. Now you don’t know this because you are sheltered. You won’t even want to believe me because its too painful to believe. You will protect yourself by getting angry at ME instead of the situation.

    We are used to it. Its part of the package. Its been going on for generations.

    Nothing you say is new DWM. We’ve heard it all and laughed at it all for generations. None of it makes sense. Its all irrational. But we understand because you don’t know what its like from our vantage point. You just see the world from your sheltered experience.

    So don’t bother to anger or try to teach me anything. Been there heard all of that. My Dad heard it. My grandma and grandpas heard it and beyond. Its been said and far more has been done. Its all silliness based on your White supremacist world view. You cant help it.

    Either REALLY get serious and try to understand people, starting from the point that they are JUST like you, read books which explain this situation that we are all in from various perspectives. Get the real picture not the abridged, make it nice and make me the hero version. Get the embarrassing, shocking, appalling, deeply considered versions. You will grow beyond your imagination. You will see the world differently. You will love more and feel true freedom.

    Right now, your White supremacist foundation cripples you in ways that you don’t even know.

    Now the other option is to live your life as you are with the views that you have, now knowing that you may very well be WRONG, wrong forever; dumb, clueless, blind, about an important element of your American culture, for the rest of your existence on this planet.

    Its a choice. But don’t let anger and your pride rule you. However if you start your research just trying to prove me wrong, you will eventually dig deeply enough to learn the truth about your world. Its not that hard. You don’t have to go the way of crazy conspiracy theorists. Just solid historical and relevant documents. You will be the wiser.

    Live is wonderful isn’t it!

  • Zedd

    By the way.

    There is a tendency for Whites to morph into the “HATE” or “ANGRY” tag when Blacks disagree with them.

    Its a tantrum.

    I don’t hate anyone at all. I am just correcting misinformation because of lack of proper exposure.

    I am not saying I am superior in ANY way. I say that what you say about Blacks and Black culture is beyond wrong. I think that that is kind because no one will tell you. They will just smile, pat you one the back and laugh at you later. They do that because they know that it is useless to explain (again, see the tantrums on this thread)

    So there is no ANGER or HATRED at all.

    The “HATE” and “ANGRY” diversion is used all of the time. Its been used for generations. In the past people were killed for it. Now it just gets you ostracized and your original point is dismissed and never dealt with.

    Rather bratty isn’t it.

    W-“You are an abominable snow man”.

    Resp -“No I am not”

    W-“You are an angry abominable snow man”

    Resp -“Do you know what an abominable snow man is? An abominable snow man is XYZ”?

    W-“You are so filled with hate and think you know everything. Its people like you who make the world so hateful”

    Resp – sigh!

    Welcome to my world…..

  • troll

    I luv it when you talk Tutu

  • Clavos

    Does he talk like that?

  • troll

    kinda like the ‘conciliation through education and self knowledge’ that Zedd pushes for

  • Clavos


    Obviously, I’m not that familiar with his writings (speeches?).

  • Zedd

    LUV Tutu. Respect Tutu highly!!

  • Paotie

    Zedd ..

    I’m deaf. I once applied for a job as telemarketer. They called and left a message (me mum helped me with that). I showed up for my interview. During my interview, we chatted a bit before the guy realized I was deaf. THen he asked, “why are applying for a job as a telemarketer if you’re deaf?” I told him, “cos a job’s a job a job.”

    He referred me to another guy who hired me immediately for a construction job.

    You, in this context, wouldn’t even bother applying because you’re too fixtated on being a victim. Conversely, whiney-bitch BMW would show up for his interview wearing a wifebeater, nappy hair, and baggy jeans. If he’s not hired, he’ll blame it on the fact he has nappy hair.

    See the difference?

    Let it go.



  • dumb white guy

    Not once did I “feel” angry. Don’t assume that you know what I’m feeling.

    But NOW I’m pissed!

    FACT: I was brought up being thrown back and forth between K & A and the Hunting Park area of Philadelphia. I was pushed around, beaten up, and called whitey constantly. So, I wasn’t exactly sheltered. Back then I didn’t know what being a racist meant until I started getting my ass kicked by blacks for no reason.

    We moved out of Philly when I was 16 to the burbs. I made new friends, some which were black believe it or not. I discovered that the blacks in the suburbs weren’t like the blacks in the city.

    However, things have changed with the suburban black kids with the influence of gangsta rap and prison culture. The white kids pretend to be black which I find amusing more than anything.

    I still keep up with what’s going on with one of the neighborhoods I came up in. The Hunting Park area I came from is being gentrified at a rapid pace, which of course will displace the much less fortunate poor black community. What I want to know is what will happen to these people. I am still in the process of finding out. Maybe I can’t do anything about it, but who knows? Maybe I can.

    So now you can find fault with what I just said and tell me I’m stupid, spoiled, ignorant, and whatever else you want.

    By the way, what makes you think that every white kid who came up in the 80’s was into ACDC and hair bands? You obviiously know very little about the diverse white culture, as you tell everyone we’re clueless about blacks. You are the Queen of Stereotypes and very closed-minded.

    You tell all of us we’re stupid but you offer no solutions. And on the subject of Al Sharpton, every radio show I listen to, when black callers are asked what they think about the wrong-doings of Al, they all defend Sharpton. You say you keep up with Al Sharpton, yet you seem to think he’s never done wrong.

    By the way, you stated that:
    “There is a tendency for Whites to morph into the “HATE” or “ANGRY” tag when Blacks disagree with them. ”

    Why do you generalize all the time when it comes to whites as if we’re clones of one another? THAT’S ignorant. What if I said that blacks have the tendency to RIOT when whites disagree with them, or people like Sharpton encourage them to.

  • BMW

    Ruvy in Jerusalem:

    Let’s be specific. Imus didn’t utter “racially insensitive comments.” He uttered a racist slur. That’s the difference.

  • Clavos

    Semantics. Just semantics.

  • troll

    but with differing emotional content

  • dumb white guy

    On the subject of black and white youths in the burbs. My sons go to a school that is 95% white. Never a problem there outside the occasional scrap between white kids that amounts to nothing. A mile away there’s a school that is 98% black and there is trouble there on a daily basis. REAL trouble. Weapons, fights, teachers being threatened which are at times carried through. The school is in the paper several times a month because of all the problems. Are whites responsible? Or are the parents of these kids to blame?

    Recently in a school in Philly 5 black students jumped and broke the neck of a 60-year old male teacher because he confiscated one of the kid’s Ipods.

    Recently in Philly a black guy was caught on servailance camera punching an elderly woman in the face because she wouldn’t give him her purse.

    When I saw that tape I said out loud, “that no-good fucking nigger!” I actually felt bad about saying it, let alone even thinking it afterwards.

    So, do you see why whites have the attitude toward blacks? We didn’t give birth to them. We didn’t raise them in extremely bad neighborhoods. e didn’t bring them into this world to let society deal with them.

    I’m sorry to say this…but STOP BREEDING if you live in a place that perpetuates gang violence drugs!

    So go ahead, call me a stupid white person.

  • troll

    DWG – that there are segregated schools so close to one another shows how well integration ha worked…

    and while we’re on the topic of breeding:

    ban intraracial marriage

  • BMW


    This is more than stupid. So what you are saying is that black people should be mandated to get their hair straightened or processed because whites interviewing them with may not like their natural hair and not hire them? How racist is that?

    Please do not put words in my mouth I didn’t say. But it’s been well documented in a host of programs…20/20, 60 minutes and more, that a suit and tie wearing black person, with identical credentials as a white guy (processed hair or not), is more likely NOT to get the job. Same with housing. There are numerous examples of blacks getting stiffer jail sentences than whites under similar circumstances (that means all things being equal blacks tend to get stiffer sentences than whites for the same offenses). A prime example is the case I cited about the guy sentenced to jail for life for carrying a small amount of pot — by the same judge who gave a white murderer probation in the same town.

    Blacks don’t need to go to the extreme and wear t-shirts and baggy pants not to get hired. In the case of the Rutgers girls, they were neat, intelligent, attending college, excelling in sports, with hair straigtened and not a ‘nappy-head’ in sight, but even that didn’t save them from getting labeled and put-down in a racist way by a nationally recognized talk radio host.

    I see posters on this board expressing concern for the DUke athletes. Are they concerned about the high school kid with no prior arrests or other infractions who got sentenced to 25 years in prison for touching a teachers aide? Not hitting. Not assulting. Not threatening her life. TwENTY-FIVE YEARS.

    In the 50s blacks could be lynched for speaking their minds. In this day and age, speaking out for what is right can get you targeted by any number of so-called “fair and balanced” news/talk programs. While I’m in no way a fan of Al Sharpton, that fact that he even opens his mouth and puts himself in the line of fire for all of this venome is probably why so many people of color support him. Just a guess, although I doubt sincerely that EVERY black person supports him as you assert in your post.

  • Clavos





  • troll


  • troll

    only way to solve this racial horse shit imo

  • Zedd


    You, in this context, wouldn’t even bother applying because you’re too fixtated on being a victim.

    You are wrong again.

    Again. I don’t think I am a victim Paotie. I don’t’ even understand what being a victim is. I have worked since 15yrs old, volunteered since 12yrs old. I paid for my entire college education. Worked 2 and 3 jobs going to school. Have progressed professionally and have made personal concessions to make a contribution to causes that I am passionate about. Am a widow and work to raise my beautiful children to be truly kind people, engaged and intrigued by life. I do my own yard work. I paint my own hefty suburban house, indoors and out. I fix my own appliances :o). I work with my children so that they maintain A averages. I spend most of my life joking and laughing whether alone or with family and friends. I have taught my children to be totally goofy. We have a blast on a daily bases. I teach them to be rational and reasonable. I have raised them to have good critical thinking skills. I do the soccer mom thing and teach Sunday school. We love make up fashion and shopping but we work on being sane about it (its hard). I LOVE music! I love Dizzy, Ellington, Parliament, Handel, Marley, choral music, more and more music and more than anything South African music! Music is transcendent for me.

    Despite a lot of challenges in my life, I’m deliriously happy most of the time.

    I love to learn and find it rather orgasmic. I’m intrigued by life and find it blissful. I truly believe in living it abundantly. I believe that every square centimeter of this planet is mine; a gift from God for this short time that I have here. I love to love and I have had a great love; one that people write great novels about.

    I was born in Soweto and have seen beauty, joy, depth and complexity that is unexplainable. I have been to rural villages and have been inspired by wisdom unknown. I have seen old faces that say so much with little words, I feel beyond blessed. I was raised in an African American neighborhood in Texas and am blessed to know what I know.

    I know racism and I know what it does. I know cause and affect and I value clarity and understanding. I abhor chosen ignorance (on my part). I abhor half efforts or half comprehension because of denial or fear (on my part). Irrational emotional outbursts scare me or perplex me most of the time. But I don’t know victim hood.

    There are things about my current situation that are beyond challenging and I will not share them with you but I still don’t know victim hood.

    Life is good!

    I think you don’t see what is glaring. You have made Imus into a victim for being fired for being racist at WORK. Your complaints suggest that YOU are being victimized by Blacks.

  • dumb white guy

    Actually, I worked for one of the top Mutual Fund companies for 12 years and the blacks mostly had the upper hand when it came to getting a job and promotions. Granted there weren’t a lot of blacks in the company because most of those who worked there had to take a bus from the city. I frequently heard them bitch because they had to take public transportation. But I had respect for every one of them because they wanted to better themselves and take advantage of the company college reimbursement program. Many of them did.

  • Zedd


    You are lying!

    There is no suburban Black school with that type of crime and misbehavior.

  • Clavos

    It would work.

    A tough sell, though.

  • dumb white guy


    I praise you for all that you have accomplished. I’m being sincere. you’ve been very arrogant in here. You tell people to focus and ask questions. But if anyone asks YOU a question, you are more likely to try to make them feel stupid instead of offering some enlightenment without being condescending. I think you are a very bright and worldly person. But you lump all of us whites into one group with your shallow generalizations. I’m not as smart and experienced as you. But that’s fine. You don’t know me. I’m not a bad person and I don’t consider myself as being stupid or spoiled.

    If I saw a black person, any black person, even if they appeared to be a thug, drowning, I would jump right in without thinking twice about it.

    Maybe some of us aren’t being stupid, but rather, human. Some of us are willing to listen and learn. This has been tiring.

  • troll

    probably have to go with the flip side:

    incentivize interracial marriage

  • dumb white guy

    “You are lying!

    There is no suburban Black school with that type of crime and misbehavior.”

    The school is called Norristown Area High School and everything I said about it is true. [Edited]

  • dumb white guy

    The school is about 2 miles from where I live. In that town teenage prostitution runs rampant and gang-related violence is commonplace. Guns, drugs, prostitution, you name it.

  • Paotie

    BMW ..

    Obese people have the same problem finding jobs. Deaf people have the same problem finding jobs. Hispanics have the same problem finding jobs. Homosexuals have the same problem finding jobs.
    Blacks have the same problem finding jobs.
    And, as surprising as this might sound to you, Whites have the same problem finding jobs, too.

    Oddly, illegal aliens always seem to find a job.

    So, what exactly is the problem here? Are you expecting to have a cushy, $125,000 job? Got an MBA? What’s up, homie?

    Talk to me.



  • BMW

    Dumb white guy:

    The elderly woman assualted in an elevator was in New York City, not in Philadelphia. The kids who assualted the Philly teacher deserve whatever legal punishment that comes to them.

    But what does this have to do with anything? Black kids do bad things. So do white kids. So do Latino kids. There are examples all over the country of people of all races doing bad things.

    In Delaware, a state not far from the beloved Philadelphia you keep posting about, a white guy shot an eight-year old black child in the back for taking peaches from his tree. Is he in jail? Why not?

    This doesn’t mean every black person punches out his teacher any more than it means every white homeowner shoots children in the back to keep them out of his fruit tree. Not every Italian guy is in the mob, no matter how many times you watch the Sopranos on television or Godfather sequels get produced.

    I can go on and on and site examples of atrocities against blacks too. Emmitt Till was 14 when whistling at a white girl got him shot, beaten, eyes gouged and body thrown into the River. The murderers are still walking the streets today, although it’s no secret who they are. That doesn’t make all white folks monsters any more than your example means all black students are cast in the mold of hooligans who attack their teachers.

    Don’t you know that? Or can’t you see past color?

  • Clavos

    In some groups, an even tougher sell.

  • troll

    nothing a jackboot couldn’t take care of

  • Clavos

    Then, why bother flip-siding?

  • troll

    good point – just thought ‘incentives’ would sell better…but if we’re breaking out the billy clubs anyway it really doesn’t matter

  • BMW

    Dumb white guy:

    You actually consider Norristown a suburb? Aye Carumba. Norristown looks an awful lot like a small city to me.

  • Stinkey

    Zedd#157. You said Imus called them jigaboos. Prove it. Now I will call you a jigaboo. Im white, your black. Who do you think will be edited?

  • Clavos

    So we’re back to education. From birth. Maybe a couple more generations actually will do it.

  • dumb white guy


    I get what you’re saying and I stand corrected for the most part. I can certainly see past color. But I guess what I see is what I see. I’m really hoping this all can turn into a positive dialogue.

    By the way, I’ve said some positive things in very recent posts but you didn’t comment on those. Oh, and sorry for mistaking which city that guy beat up the elderly woman. As if it mattered. As far as me posting about my “beloved” Philadelphia, that’s where I grew up. Should I post about a city I didn’y grow up in?

    I realize that there are many black students in the city that want out. A lot of parents are doing whatever they can to get their kids out of that school. And I realize that there are guns, drugs, and violence in predominantly white schools as well. But I only see what I see. Maybe my eyes aren’t open wide enough. I’m willing to learn.

    As far as raising my kids goes, they are boys, 11 and 13, and they’ve seen American History X and Mississippi Burning. They’ve seen documentaries I have on my computer about skinheads and the KKK. My 11-year old did a book report on Rosa Parks when he was 9. Not because he was told to, but because he chose her from a list of unrelated topics.

    Maybe one day they’ll teach me.

  • dumb white guy


    Have you actually been there? It is considered a suburb of Philadelphia. It really isn’t that big at all. A few somewhat tall buildings must be throwing you off.

  • troll

    dunno – segregation runs pretty deep…but change can happen quickly

  • Clavos

    True, it does. But it’s been what? Only two generations so far? A lot has already been accomplished. How many generations did it take to get it so ingrained?

  • dumb white guy

    Oh yeah. And my 13-year old is reading 3 Lives for Mississippi. Great book. Recommended reading.

    I realize that I’m all over the place with my thinking and I contradict myself at times. I am Bipolar. My racing thoughts get in the way. One day I hate whites and the next day blacks. And the next day I hate myself.

  • Clavos

    Maybe one day they’ll teach me.

    Sounds to me you’ve already learned the hardest lesson: open-mindedness.

  • Zedd


    Stop trying so hard. Sorry bud but you don’t rate. Maybe next thread.

  • Zedd


    In some groups, an even tougher sell.

    Depends on the who the customer is; how kind, depraved, ignorant or evolved he is. It depends on his view point.

  • dumb white guy

    …and some days I wish white people would stop breeding!

  • Zedd


    I think you need to change your moniker.

    I agree with Clavos.

  • former dumb white guy


  • former dumb white guy

    I have a confession to make. My original moniker was Rob. Then I said I wasn’t coming back to this thread. Then I returned as Dumb White Guy. I think Zedd caught on to it right away.

    Tomorrow I’ll be William S Buroughs.

  • Dan

    BMW#360: If you really care to know the true nature of which groups are responsible for the most crime, google “The Color of Crime”.

    The study is contemporary. You don’t need to go back to some long ago “Emmit Till” dramatization.

    Remember when people used to say that whites moved out of cities that blacks moved into because they were motivated by hate? Not many say that anymore.

    It’s one of those hopeful myths that dwindle away as more people discover racial truths.

    Of course there is always a fresh crop of youthful idealists, eager to rebel against what they wrongly see as “social injustice”. Blinded by their sense of moral superiority, and guided by liberal indoctrination, they carry the torch of egalitarian fantasy that older and wiser predecessors have abandoned.

    Imus is being schooled. A man of extraordinary integrity would rebel. I doubt that he is that kind of man though. Humbling himself to the likes of Al Sharpton is a pretty clear indication of that.

    Bill Bennett, on the other hand, is that kind of man. He was quoted,(out of context, of course) that if black babies were aborted, the crime rate would go down. Fortunately, for him, there is ample evidence, statistical and emperical, that this is true. He was largely left alone. Most likely because the powers that be calculated that emotional hysterics might not be enough to overshadow the damage that a casual inspection of crime rates would do.

  • Just to clear one thing up, Imus didn’t call them ‘jigaboos’, that was one of his on air crew. I’m not sure of the guy’s name, but in the video he’s sitting next to Imus.


  • Zedd


    You mean who gets arrested and convicted more. Come on, you know your country.

    In Dallas, since a new African American DA has been voted in, 13 exonerations of Black prisoners by new DNA technology have taken place, per his crack down on our “justice” system.

    Who commits more crime is not documented.

  • Zedd


    Imus made reference to the movie which was about Jigaboos and one of his guys said Jigaboos and he agreed.

  • Clavos

    Who commits more crime is not documented.

    Not true.

    Obviously, you didn’t take the trouble to even glance at the report. It’s very eye-opening and completely unbiased, since it’s taken from law enforcement records and is thoroughly annotated.

    Here’s a free download of the report.

    And here’s an article about the report and its conclusions by Professor Walter Williams.

    Read at least the article, Zedd, before you pass judgment.

  • Clavos


    The *&%$#@#$% spam filter has swallowed two of my comments this evening.

    I’m getting paranoid!

  • Zedd

    Its Al Sharpton and has band of rappers. Be afraid!

  • In Dallas, since a new African American DA has been voted in, 13 exonerations of Black prisoners by new DNA technology have taken place, per his crack down on our “justice” system.

    Who commits more crime is not documented.

    There are plenty of stats, and I hope you realize that in an area the size of Dallas 13 exonerations is statistically meaningless, though good news for those exonerated.


  • Dan

    Zed, there were 13 exonerations since 2001, the latest, James Giles, was convicted of a gang rape along with 2 other blacks. The crime occured but it was most likely another black man, James Earl Giles, who lived across the street from the victim. He died in prison serving time for robbery and assault.

    3 of the exonerations weren’t black men.

    From what I can tell, all of the women were still raped by perpetrators of the race that they claimed, but they fingered the wrong guy.

    Several of the exonerated are still doing time for unrelated offenses.

    I do know my country, and I know who is commiting crime by race. A handful of exonerations doesn’t explain away thousands upon thousands.

    the “Color of Crime” study I cited is a thouroughly documented investigation of FBI victimization reports that go undisputed. Naturally it is suppressed in the current liberal social climate. But it’s there. If you could find fault with even some minor statistical methodology, you would possibly be heralded with much fanfare on the cover of the overtly racist “Southern Poverty Law Center” newsletter.

    It’s good that you ask questions Zed, but you should also accept the answers.

  • former dumb white guy

    Numbers don’t help me. I need details. I need to know why. I need to know the circumstances behind each crime. I need to know if all the convictions were fair. I need to know how many of the criminals were actually innocent and wrongly accused. I’ll never see all of that information in a book because most Americans are satisfied with numbers. Numbers are convenient.

  • Dan

    Clavos, wow, thanks for the link to my favorite black economist, Walter Williams. I didn’t know he had anything to say on the report.

    “Some might want to keep silent about the facts for fear that publicizing the true nature and magnitude of interracial crime might give, as I’ve been told, “aid and comfort to America’s white racists.”

    That pretty much says it all. Lot’s of people want to keep it “silent”. Ignorance can then prevail.

  • Joe

    how many white guests has al sharpton had on his show besides imus? i know imus has had a plethora of black guests on his show (harold ford, aaron neville to name a few). after paying a visit to sharptontalk.net, i don’t see much… uhm “unity” there… hell, change the race around and you have a national socialist radio website. lol

  • Zedd


    I meant to say that the Blacks were exonerations since the African American DA pushed and pushed for the re-evaluation of their convictions. The effort began prior to his being placed in office.


    Out of the 13 the Blacks make 23% of the wrong convictions. These exonerations happened after a great deal of pushing.

    The point was, we don’t know who commits more crimes or even more serious crimes.

    The story of the White man who killed a gay prostitute and was put on probation and the Black man who held a White man up and took $2 and ended up in jail for 17 yrs, both convicted in the same judges court in Dallas just ended a couple of weeks ago when the Black man was finally released.

    The uneven sentencing points to a system that is ready and willing to convict Black males. The crimes that are more likely to be committed by Blacks and Hispanics than Whites carry a much stiffer crime. You know that. You know your country.

    I love watching COPS when a White guy offends and he gets called “bud” and is treated like a son who has gone way ward and the Black guy is treated like he is a member of Al Qaeda outside of the twin towers on 911, over the same offense.

    You know your country.

  • Zedd


    You know full well that I studied Sociology. I lived and breathed stats. I also understand social the phenomenon that contributes to those stats. I have a clear understanding of spurious correlations. In this case color is not the cause. We all know that.

    What this reports ALSO says is Blacks are more likely to be convicted of more crimes than Whites.

    In Texas on the highway from Houston to Dallas, you can watch who the state troupers pull over, its almost comical. I had to drive to Houston regularly in the 90’s and it became a game for me to count the number of Black young men (who looked like college kids driving back and forth from school) who would be stopped. When my then boyfriend would be driving we were stopped every other trip. I’m a fast driver. I drove even faster when I was alone. I was never stopped. I made that trip about thirty times.

    It was funny, we would drive with a car of Black men next to us and we would laugh and say “well they are not going to make it X or Y miles”. We would compete as to how long it would take for them to be stopped.

    Now meanwhile White drug traffickers, murderers at large, kidnappers could have been breezing by happily and pink. Funny stuff!

    Blacks are more likely to be pursued by police.

    Why is it that with the insane methamphetamine abuse numbers that our jails aren’t filled to the rim with White drug users and dealers? The numbers of Whites in jail are growing but they should be exploding. Small towns are crumbling because of meth. There are more methamphetamine abusers then crack abusers. Where is the mandatory minimum sentence for its possession?

    Do you realise that in dealing with the meth crisis the federal government has put in place laws which deal with the supply end of meth use. They have made it difficult to get the supplies which make meth. :o) Awe they care.

    When the crack epidemic came out, as you remember, the focus was on conviction. The sentence for the same amount of crack as straight cocaine (a White drug then) was increased to be much stiffer. With the three strikes and you are out program….. you get the picture.

    That was my point Clavos. I am surprised that I had to expound in order for you to understand. We know our country well. Let’s not pretend ignorance.

    Rush gets to apologies for being a drug abuser and go back to making millions. He can afford a doctor to be his pusher and expensive lawyers.

    However what I find interesting is that Imus does something heinous and we end up talking about how horrible Blacks are. With what we have done to them over the ages (not once or even twenty times, its been on going an unending), WHATS to be expected? Surely you are clever enough to consider that. REALLY!

    If you read this post on another thread with more typos don’t think you are crazy, its not you. I goobered. I made a mistake and posted it in the wrong thread. He he.


    Your post suggest that COLOR is the cause. You cant throw something like that out without a WHY, if you are a thinking man. It seems to me that you are just trying to make small points and are not interested in understanding our nation regarding RACE.

    With the crimes of White SOCIETY, the crimes which are the foundation of our culture, and the extensive crime against humanity that Europeans have enacted. With organized crime and international misdeeds, plotting and manipulation of wars, hundreds of thousands of dead as a result, lets not try to compare. The pettiness of the crimes of the POOR are miniscule. You know that that is true. Crimes that are committed and yet look neat and provide for our lifestyle cant be overlooked if you are a person with integrity.

    When you look at data always look at the “whys”. In this case, the WHY speaks with the illness of our nation which you more likely wont want to hear or know about. You will probably throw out some simplistic Rushesque comment and walk away knowing nothing. Why did you even bother to bring up those stats.

  • Zedd

    Clavos #292

    I know what a Pom is goober. I was making a point to STM about his complaint about Blacks and the use of the origins identifying term “African American”.

  • S.T.M

    Zedd wrote: “If I were born male, I’d be a drag queen.”

    Now I’m frightened. Zedd, but it’d be no good m’dear : the adam’s apple is always a dead giveaway.

    Or for those too drunk to notice and potentially at risk of putting themselves unknowingly into a very compromising situation, there’s another clue, as my French mate Claude* says: “Zer ferckeeng feet, mate, you ‘ave to look ‘ard at zer ferckeeng feet. Ooh la la (slaps forehead). I can’t even fink abot zees”.

    He didn’t check “zer feet”, but survived the encounter with male psyche intact to tell a very interesting tale …

    *Name changed to protect the guilty.

  • BMW

    STM wrote: Am I missing something here? That is exactly the point I am trying to make. Yes, my background is anglo-celtic. But I don’t walk around saying I’m an Anglo-Celtic Australian. I know where I come from today: it’s Australia, as you point out. You know where you come from as well: AMERICA.

    Yes, you are missing something. You know your heritage.

    You ask why you need to go around saying you’re an “Anglo-Celtic Australian?” You don’t. Why should you? However if your great-grandparents were taken from places unknown in Europe and left in Zambia, TODAY you might occasionally have a need to describe yourself as something other than Zambian.

    I would also bet that your life experiences would differ from the average Zambian so you would have the need to find people who share similarities and share those experiences. If not, you would be forever wondering why those hair straightening classes leave you bald with serious scalp burns instead of a cute style. Or why your mother is suffering from osteoporosis when no one else in the country is talking about it.

    Here’s the point: People who are Irish, or German or Italian or from another European country tend to get together to celebrate and recognize their common CULTURE. They just happen to be white.

    Black Americans tend to get together to celebrate and recognize their common CULTURE. They just happen to be black.

    On the one hand, it’s okay for the Irish to celebrate their Irish-ness. They can have their Irish Festivals and their Hibernian Societies. Italians can hang out in Little Italy or join the sons of Italy. Germans can have an Oktoberfest. I can party at the Celtic festival — and no one considers these activities racist. But if black Americans do something similar based on the only ethnicity they have, some whites want to scream racism.

    Black Americans can only celebrate their common ethnicity under the banner of African American or black. It’s recognition of their common culture.

    No one is making a big deal of it, except for whites who claim it’s racist — when whites themselves do it all the time. We even have scholarships earmarked exclusively for whites, but no one says it’s racist. Earmark one for American blacks and whites cry foul.

    It’s not about race, it’s about culture. When it comes to blacks, why it is that many whites can’t see beyond race?

    Whites are the ones who seem unable to see or realize that American blacks are responding to their common cultural heritage, not glorifying a particular race. It just happens that in this country that’s their only means of identification.

    To me this entire blog about Al Sharpton illustrates that very problem. Wouldn’t it be nice for Blacks just to be able to identify themselves as Americans? The Rutgers girls were certainly doing just that. Then, out of the blue, some white guy they don’t even know calls them a RACIST slur.

    Whites want blacks to get past race, but are the ones who keep bringing it up.

    My brother lives in London. I also have a friend in London who is black. I know personally that they’ve had vastly different life experiences. I’m wondering why you think you can speak on how or if your black friend has experienced racism. My black friend in London certainly has. So have my black friends here. But I also know that talking about racist encounters is not something blacks tend to share with people who aren’t black too.

  • Clavos

    The story of the White man who killed a gay prostitute and was put on probation and the Black man who held a White man up and took $2 and ended up in jail for 17 yrs, both convicted in the same judges court in Dallas just ended a couple of weeks ago when the Black man was finally released.

    The uneven sentencing points to a system that is ready and willing to convict Black males. The crimes that are more likely to be committed by Blacks and Hispanics than Whites carry a much stiffer crime. You know that. You know your country.

    Anecdotal accounts of specific cases do not prove anything other than what happened in those cases. The entire body of law enforcement (FBI) collected data does indicate that Blacks are more likely to commit crimes, and the data doesn’t indicate that the police are more likely to arrest Blacks, though that is a widely believed myth.

    From the report: “The Color of Crime”:

    This widely-held view that the police are biased is not supported by the evidence. The data suggest the criminal justice system generally treats offenders of different races equally. High arrest and incarceration rates for blacks and Hispanics—and very low rates for Asians—reflect differences in crime rates, not police or justice system bias…

    Most Americans at least suspect that blacks and Hispanics are more likely to commit crimes than
    whites or Asians. The data support this view. However, the crime statistics published by the federal government and reported in the press are incomplete and often confusing. It takes real digging to get a clear picture of racial differences in crime rates—and they can be great.

    Major Findings
    • Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.

    Crime Rates

    • Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
    • When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
    • Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
    • The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.

    Interracial Crime

    • Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
    • Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are
    • Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
    • Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa.


    • Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
    • Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs. Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.


    • Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139 to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39 million.
    • Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are three times more likely.

    These are the major findings only. The full report is nearly thirty pages long, and I don’t want to hijack the entire thread with all that verbiage. The report is available as a free download here.

    Remember that the underlying data for this report are taken from two sources:

    The FBI UCRs (Uniform Crime Reports) and The NCVS (National Crime Victimization Survey).

    The authors use the NCVS as well as the UCRs to demonstrate that the idea that the police target Blacks in their arrests (which police departments nationwide deny) is a myth; and a careful reading of the full report confirms that it is an apocryphal concept.

  • Dan

    No apology necessary Zed, I wasn’t questioning when the DA took office.

    13 x 23% = 3 non-black exonerations. That’s what I said.

    “The point was, we don’t know who commits more crimes or even more serious crimes. ”

    It’s obvious you don’t know, but people who analyse the statistics do. Property crimes are more difficult to assess by race, since the perp is often not seen. Although the demographics of a given geographical area can yield some correlations.

    More serious violent crime though, often involves victims who get a good look at their attackers. When the victims report to the authorities they give descriptions by race. The victims race is also reported.

    Some attempts have been made to conceal victimization reports from the public, but I won’t speculate on the motivation for the effort. Obvious as it is.

    “Uneven sentencing” is a seperate issue, but here again, It’s been thouroughly debunked.

    I remember one such study commissioned by Janet Reno during the Clinton administration on bias in sentencing of death row inmates. It was nationally comprehensive and found a slight bias… against whites. I guess the result didn’t match the intention, so the study was shelved, with very little media scrutiny.

    There have been some discredited bias studies– and a whole lot of anecdotal offerings–, but the fault of the studies has mostly been a lack of control for the seriousness of offense, and the prior record of the defendent.

    The report that Clavos linked to includes a lot of scholarship on the subject, where the studies are controlled for the variables.

    You should read the report Zed, then you will “know your country” better.

    New developments in DNA evidence are wonderful tools for justice. Just ask the Duke 3. Sadly there was a white prosecutor who allowed himself to be used as an instrument of his anti-white constituents racial hate. It makes you wonder what travesty of justice might have occured if Nifong were allowed to sneak the case through to a trial before a jury made up of such people. Durham county is probably a good place for whites to avoid.

  • Dan

    My post above was in response to Zeds #390. I see that things have moved on.

  • Clavos


    The dog ate my homework again…

    (second request)

  • Zedd


    You totally missed my point. No biggy.

    I studied Sociology. Sociology is the discipline that focuses on social statistics. We are the demographers, and pollsters (at least the ones who measure the viability of sample data).

    You really didn’t get what I was saying.

    Anyway, Imus has been fired. America has grown and matured because of it. Black women have gained in that for the first time a large public outcry has been made in their defense and there was success.

    The Lacrosse guys are exonerated! Thankfully for them their parents could afford good attorneys so they did not become STATISTCS (are you starting to get part of my original point). If they were poor, regardless of race, they would have probably ended up in jail for a crime that they did not commit, simply because of public perception. I hope that the parents can recoup their lost funds. I also hope that stripper is put in jail for what she has done. She has caused a lot of financial cost and pain for those kids and families. She has put the credibility of a lot of people into question, and she has in some foolish people’s minds reduced the severity of the racist reality of our nation. I bet the parents of those boys want to beat those kids for hiring that stripper in the first place. This however is a building event for those kids. Some may go into politics, however they will be catapulted in some special way as people, as life would have it. The same is true for the Rutgers girls.

  • Zedd


    What is the name of that Australian movie with those drag queens and the ABBA sound track? Its one of my favorite movies. Its so pretty to look at.

  • Dan

    Zed #391:

    “Your post suggest that COLOR is the cause. You cant throw something like that out without a WHY, if you are a thinking man.”

    My post didn’t suggest a cause. I wasn’t asked. I was only offering a statistical portrait of the true nature of crime, particularly interacial violence, to an ill-informed poster.

    I consider myself to be a “thinking man”, and I consider the “why” of things often.

    One of my biggest “why’s” is why don’t more people have intellectual curiosity? Why is it that some people seem so vested in a hoped for truth, to the point of fearing an investigation of facts.

    If I were black, I would think it would be a relief to know that whites aren’t guilty of disproportionate racial violence.

    Pretend victimhood is only a short term gain. Remedies for it hurt all of us in the long run, And does exactly the opposite of it’s intent. Double standards of speech, for instance, create racial animosity.

  • Zedd

    Facts on Post-Conviction DNA Exonerations

    There have been 192 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States to date. The average length of time served by those exonerated by DNA testing is 12 years. Of the 192 exonerees there are:

    – 110 African Americans

    – 50 Caucasians

    – 19 Latinos

    – 1 Asian Americans

    – 12 exonerees whose race is unknown

    For more than 14 years, the Innocence Project has worked to pinpoint these trends. The Innocence Project has determined that over 75% of the 192 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the U.S. involve mistaken eyewitness identification testimony, making it the leading cause of these wrongful convictions. Additionally, in more than a third of DNA exonerations the misapplication of forensic disciplines, other than DNA, has played a role in convicting the innocent. In these cases, forensic scientists and prosecutors presented fraudulent, exaggerated, or otherwise tainted evidence to the judge or jury which led to the wrongful conviction. Other principal factors in wrongful conviction cases include false confessions or cases where defendants have made incriminating statements, the use of jailhouse informants, especially in return for deals, special treatment, or the dropping of charges, and bad lawyering, a few examples of which are failure to investigate, failure to call witnesses, and the inability to prepare for trial (due to caseload or incompetence). -The Innocence Project

  • Zedd


    Lets be honest. You know that BBW was referring to the history of violence and thievery that Whites have had. You know that she was talking about the cumulative affects of White society on others. You were nit picking. For shame you!

    You are being disingenuous if you say you were just posting facts. You were making a point and you were attributing the stats to RACE otherwise why did you post them.

    You did not address the reasons WHY those statistics exist. Their existence supports the larger issue of our social maladjustments which will end up proving her very point. Being a thinking man you know that. Being a thinking man you are probably also used to conversing with people who don’t think and are used to throwing out half “FACTS” to prove you “point”.

    I will move on as this has gotten a bit tiresome but thank you for engaging me :o)

  • sugababe


  • Zedd


    Oh I forgot to say. Please stop saying when people express a dislike or a concern that they are being victims. That is a bullying tactic to silence them simply because their complaints make you feel uneasy.

    Morphing into that quick conclusion robs you of learning something about others and gaining a better understanding of your world and the human phenomenon in general. People experience the world differently. Respect that. Your lack of experience with their challenges doesn’t give you a right to belittle them. Doing so robs you of your humanity.

  • BMW

    Dumb White guy:

    Yes, I know Norristown. I’m a zydeco dance fan and there are often dances held there (and regionally in other parts of Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York and Maryland). It’s a small city, in my opinion, on the outskirts of Philadelphia.

  • former dumb white guy


  • Dan

    Zed #403: Of course I’m honest. One can afford to be that way when there is no truth you fear, and no non-truth you wish others to believe.

    I don’t think I even accidentaly mis-interpreted what BBW’s post said. She was responding in turn to DWG’s post about his experience’s with black criminality. Her contention seemed to be that all groups are generally equal in interacial violence. I brought her up to date.

    Certainly my comment was meant to make a point. And of course the facts I referenced were attributed to race. That’s the point, that’s what the stats are about.

    The existance of those facts does, I think, tend to “support the larger issue of our social maladjustments”, just not in the way you think they do.

    What about you Zed. Are you honest? For example, does there exist a Texas highway where you and your boyfriend were pulled over by state troopers “every other trip”? That’s a lot. Did you and your friends have the certitude that *every* car occupied by black men would be stopped to the point of being able to place bets on how many miles until the event occured?

    Doesn’t sound likely. The manpower alone…

    Zed #405: I find it a little quirky that you object to my using the word “victim”. I don’t, consciously at least, use it to bully. I certainly don’t feel uneasy about anything. But if we were to continue a conversation that is meaningful, I would probably make the effort to substitute another expression. Just for you.

    ” People experience the world differently. Respect that. Your lack of experience with their challenges doesn’t give you a right to belittle them. Doing so robs you of your humanity.”

    Probably good advice for the right person. Some others on this thread might see you in that role.

  • Clavos


    My comment #395, above was written much earlier today in response to your comment #391, but fell victim to the spam filter. Consequently, it didn’t actually appear here until a relatively short time ago.

  • Zedd


    I read the report the first time around. This does not PROVE anything about the justice system.

    It just says that Blacks get caught and convicted more than anyone. How does this PROVE that the justice system is fair???

  • Clavos


    Don’t lie. If you actually had read the full report, you wouldn’t even be asking that question.

    The NCVS – NATIONAL CRIME VICTIMIZATION SURVEY is the data that proves the validity of the FBI’s UCRs, (Uniform Crime Reports).

    The NCVS takes the data from the statements of the victims who have seen their assailants. If you actually had read the full report and Professor Williams’ article (which I also linked in my original comment), you would know that.

    These are eyewitness accounts from the victims themselves, Zedd. Even allowing for a percentage of them being wrong, the report encompasses data from hundreds of thousands of records.

    You constantly brag about your supposed academic training, yet you don’t even read evidence and data handed to you on a silver platter.

    You’re as closed minded as any white racist.

    You’re not interested in seeking out truth, only in rehashing urban myths, anecdotal “evidence,” and pop “science” you hear about on TV, so you can remain secure with your preconceptions and prejudices intact.


  • STM

    Zedd asked: “What is the name of that Australian movie with those drag queens and the ABBA sound track?”.

    Priscilla, Queen of the Desert. Based of course, on a very simple premise: bunch of drag queens leave comfy and trendy inner-Sydney Paddington and their usual dancing spot on the front bar of The Albury Hotel, hire a luxury coach and head off to the Outback to perform drag shows in high heels and fishnets for sheep shearers, miners, cowboys, abbatoir workers and other assorted rural types whose idea of a good Friday night is to get on the squirt for 10 hours and have good punch-up before either somehow driving home in the “ute” (pick-up) or spending the night as guests of the New South Wales police.

    Yeah, happens all the time, that. Not a bad movie though, especially when Terrence Stamp, complete with red lipgloss and stilletoes, belts the living shit out of the rowdy and nasty cow-cocky.

  • STM

    BMW wrote: “But I also know that talking about racist encounters is not something blacks tend to share with people who aren’t black too”.

    Don’t know about that one … my son is black, or part thereof (obviously, as I’m not).

    He tells me everything; we are rather close, too, and he’s no longer a boy.

  • Zedd


    Yes it seemed highly unlikely. Australians seem to be like Texans. I can’t imagine that taking place here.

    It was beautifully filmed however. I am a huge ABBA fan also so seeing the beautiful and outrageous gowns blowing in the wind with “Dancing Queen” blaring was an experience.

    Thank you!

  • Zedd


    As I said, I read the report. Nothing Earth shattering or convincing about it. You re posted the findings. O….KAY??

    I didn’t read the article. I will at some point.

    You are aware that eye witness accounts are quite unreliable in many incidences. You have heard the saying “they all look alike”. The problem is most pronounced in interracial crime situations.

    EX. The Innocence Project has determined that over 75% of the 192 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the U.S. involve mistaken eyewitness identification testimony, making it the leading cause of these wrongful convictions. (I posted this information already perhaps you missed it)

    If DNA evidence can reveal a greater chance for Blacks to be convicted wrongly even based on eye witness identification, twice as much than Whites in fact, what of the cases where DNA is not a factor. Would the conviction rates be different?

    I will read your article and will let you know what my thoughts are.


    I think you may be getting tired. I know I am. Your arguments are no longer arguments. You miss read my post about my trips and you are adding pivotal words into what I have stated. You are turning the dialogue towards a focus on minutia. They are all there for all of us to see. Adding words which change the meaning or weight of what I stated is sloppy.

    As for victimization, just stop that. Defining a situation, whether you read it to be one which victimizes me or not, does not mean that the act of defining it suggest that I feel victimized by it. You are saying that IF what I say is true, then I MUST be a victim.

    I am not a victim of fools. I experience foolish actions but I am not a victim of them.

    If you feel that I am a victim, that is your choice. I don’t feel like one and never have. Now don’t let your White male tendencies cause you to want to FORCE me to acknowledge something that I don’t feel.

  • Zedd

    STM, I dont know you but I have to tell you, from what I read, you are a giant of a man. WOW!

    Side note: The drag queen comment was to emphasise just how female I am. I don’t think I could be a male. I love girl stuff too much.

  • STM

    Zedd said: “Australians seem to be like Texans”.

    Seriously, they are as far removed from Texans as Englishmen are from Zulus.

    Of course, the other thing is that Texans have really weird accents.

  • STM

    Zedd said: “You are a giant of a man”.

    Lol. Yeah, that’s what my wife says too …

    No Zedd, just joshing.

  • Clavos


    You say:

    EX. The Innocence Project has determined that over 75% of the 192 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the U.S. involve mistaken eyewitness identification testimony

    That figure involves, by definition, erroneous convictions, of course a high percentage will involve mistaken ID by eyewitnesses, but your figures cannot justifiably be stretched from that tiny sample population to the hundreds of thousands of convicted felons.

    Also, the NCVS deals with victim eyewitnesses, while the exoneration project is citing ALL eyewitness, most of whom are bystanders and far less involved than victims.

    Every time the cops here in Miami (almost all of whom are Black and Hispanic, BTW, including the chief and his senior commanders) arrest a Black man, if there is even the SLIGHTEST hint of ANY kind of impropriety, an incredible hue and cry is raised and the arrest is examined minutely.

    Don’t you think that by now the line cops KNOW they’d better be VERY careful EVERY time they make an arrest, and therefore conduct themselves accordingly?

  • former dumb white guy

    I’m still here. I’m just reading and learning and keeping my mouth shut.

  • Zedd


    I did read the article. The information seems compelling.

    The challenge is that the foundation of the entire report stands on eyewitness account. As you know, eyewitness testimonies are highly flawed for a number of reasons. Even with regard to what seems to be a glaring identifier as race there are some challenges with relying on people for making an I.D.

    Another factor is, what came first, the chicken or the egg. There is a perpetuating quality to any engagement even criminality. Does an initial wrongful introduction into the legal system cause a greater likelihood of continued legitimate involvement?

    Also, without knowing how the sample was determined it is difficult to even consider the substance of the report.

    There is all sorts of data about eyewitness accounts that challenges the weight of its significance. Also calculating the racial element in THIS society based on very real historical and cultural socialization of all races, we would expect some skewing. “Cross-racial impairment” is a major concern and has been considered to be highly unreliable in instances where a White person is to identify a Black person. In various tests Blacks have proven to be far more reliable witnesses in “cross-racial impairment”.

    I am not sure what the original purpose of introducing this particular article to this thread however if it was to prove that Blacks have done more injury to society than Whites, that is a none starter and can be addressed in a number of ways, which you can make a hefty contribution to.

    If it was to comment that there is no real racism or injustice against Blacks, neither this reports correlation between arrests of Blacks and eyewitness accounts along with sentencing disparities make that argument. The assumption is that the sample population is untainted by racism or race ignorance and that is not true.

    If the purpose was to prove that the criminal justice system is fair to Blacks, the premise would be that the police got the right person in the first place. Since eyewitness testimony is flawed, especially when it comes to “cross-racial impairment”, that notion becomes quickly dismissed.

    If the purpose is to prove that there is an innate criminality within Blacks, well that is just silly. The reasons for the stats are social. Are we really ready to explore them? Emphatically NO!

    Technology will place us in a better position in the very near future to understand a more accurate picture of crime and social phenomenon. However what will heal the issues that are caused by a racist society are instances like this. Where racist are not rewarded; situations where racists are publicly humiliated.

    I’m curious, would those numbers which represent Hispanics, would those be the German variety or the indigenous variety? (couldn’t resist)

  • Clavos


    Also, without knowing how the sample was determined it is difficult to even consider the substance of the report.

    It isn’t a sample; it’s all crimes committed in the stated categories during the stated time period.

    If the purpose is to prove that there is an innate criminality within Blacks, well that is just silly. The reasons for the stats are social. Are we really ready to explore them? Emphatically NO!

    Emphatically, no that is NOT the purpose. The report merely shows unequivocally that more Blacks are committing the crimes; it doesn’t address the “whys”, which is exactly what we should now be doing, moving beyond the mere fact of the data.

  • BMW


    My problem is this blog. I still question what Al Sharpton said or did ten years ago has to do with Don Imus? Why does Al Sharpton even merit discussion? Because he’s black? So what?

    You have to audacity to post: “Imus is white, so everything is now about race, instead of the stupid comment Imus made.”

    The discussion isn’t about race solely because Imus is white. It’s about race because Imus, who is white, made a RACIST slur on radio and national television. I agree that this should all be about the stupid, hateful and yes, racist comment Imus made. It should NOT be about Al Sharpton.

    Imus is the one who brought race into the picture when he smeared an innocent group of athletes by branding them with a racist, sexist slur. And your response? Calls for some black activist who has nothing to do with what was said (and who incidentally didn’t make a racist slur on national television) to be fired for being “racially insensitive” in the past.

    Don Imus made a racist slur last week. Then, rather than focus on the seriousness of that, you start a blog to demand Al Sharpton, who has nothing to do with the Rutgers team or Don Imus for that matter, get fired too.

    If not because he’s black, why else are we even talking about Al Sharpton, of all people, ignoring the legions of people —black, white and other — who were not only offended but also spoke out about this situation? Why is this blog written as if black people suddenly got offended only because Al Sharpton told them to? How racist is that?

    Even worse, your blog goes on to suggest Imus’s words would be okay if used in another context…like in a bar or out on the streets. You actually refer to them in your original post as a “watered down” compliment. Are you out of your mind?

    I’m still waiting for someone to show me where and when rappers have ever referred to each other as “jiggaboo’s” and called black women “nappy-head.” Even Spike Lee had sense enough to use these terms to illustrate contemptuous internalized oppression in his film.

    If all of this wasn’t enough of an offense, now you stoop to telling black people they are “victims” for standing up and taking a stand against use of racist slurs by broadcasters and demanding accountability from the person who said them — when other groups take similar stands and make similar demands all the time. If they didn’t, they would forever be stepped on and their voices not heard.

    Are Jews victims for demanding an end to anti-Semitism and for not tolerating on-air slurs against Jews? Gays? People with Disabilities? I’ve already pointed out there was no similar outcry when gay activists spoke out in February against an actor for repeating a slur when he tried to maintain that he never used that slur to refer to a castmember. Are those gay rights groups victims too? Or are they simply speaking out against oppression? By the way just an aside about the overt racism in this situation: news reports covering that situation earlier this year at least had the decently not to keep repeating the slur over and over in news reports covering the flap. Conversely blacks last week were subjected to hearing a racist slur repeated over and over again – in addition to reading it in headlines and seeing it endless news clips on the air. They didn’t even get the courtesy of having the word bleeped out, a concession automatically awarded gays when a similar story occurred in February.

    I’m still waiting to read what *specific* racist slur Sharpton used and when he used it. If he used one last week, I didn’t hear it, but then I don’t like Al Sharpton and wouldn’t have heard anything he said in the first place. I personally think the man is a moron, no racist slur intended.

    C’mon Paotie: Don’t you realize that you are minimizing the situation and diverting the discussion from what is important? Sharpton certainly wasn’t the only person who was appalled by what Imus said and who openly voiced his opinion about it. Similarly, there are some Imus supporters who are equally guilty of appalling on-air behavior. Rush Limbaugh, who is white, spoke out in support of not firing Imus. Should we now start a thread urging people to fire Rush Limbaugh for telling a black caller to “take the bone out of his nose” 20 years ago? How ridiculous is that?

    Is Al Sharpton an opportunist? Maybe. I think this too misses the point. The issue isn’t about his racial insensitivity. It’s about what Imus said last week. And what Imus said was a racist slur, no two ways about it. Do we really want to say using racists slurs on the air, whether about blacks, whites, Asians or Hispanics, is tolerable if you’re a talk show host?

    Suppose I concede that we’re talking about Al Sharpton not only because he’s black, but also because Imus appeared on his radio program. The question should then be why was Imus dumb enough to go on Sharpton’s show in the first place? Why not choose Tavis Smiley? Or Juan Williams? Unfortunately those are questions you’ll have to ask Don Imus. If we’re focusing on Sharpton because the press tends to stick a microphone in his face every time there’s some issue that has to do with race, and he obliges with a provocative comment, we should ask the news media why they continue to give him a public forum.

  • former dumb white guy

    I personally don’t think what Imus said is as much a big a deal as it’s being made out to be. The girls on the team need to get over it, Sharpton needs to shut the fuck up indefinitely after he publicly apologizes for his wrong doings, and the majority of blacks need to fix their own problems instead of demanding that white people do it for them. I don’t know how you could say this isn’t about Sharpton. The very day Imus was fired, Sharpton was on t.v. raving about it. If he would have waited a few days after it happened maybe the Rutgers team would have had their glory.

    Who the hell is Sharpton anyway, the Emperor of black people?

  • Zedd


    I didn’t make myself clear. The sample is the group that was questioned for the study. They are a sample of the entire population of people who have had a crime committed against them.

    Thanks for the dialogue.

  • former dumb white guy

    Al Sharpton made a comment in regards to the Rutgers team saying, “leave our children alone!”.

    Where’s Sharpton’s public outcry across the media each time a black child is killed in gang-related crossfire? Because white people aren’t involved?

  • Zedd


    I wish that I could say that I have learned something from this experience. I haven’t. Nothing surprising happened regarding Americas reaction. Predictability sort of keeps you feeling sane though :o)

    What is glorious however is that Imus got fired and that significant corporate sponsors ended up doing the right thing. Its this sort of thing that ads to what will be a better world for my children. Having disregard for minorities without ensuring that you know what you are talking about is a lot more paramount. Yes Imus’ comments were racist but even further, they didn’t make sense. A disregard for our culture and our humanity gave him permission to say whatever he wanted because in his mind, no one cared and we didn’t count. Those girls didn’t have nappy hair, they were no uglier than the other girls (some were actually cute) and the movie was School Daze. If I were to say that Paris is in Italy, I would be considered mentally inferior because its knowledge about something that is significant to their culture. Calling a brunette a blond or not distinguishing between a German and a Swede would be thought to be a sign of shear ignorance on my part.

    The collective ignorance on these boards about the topic and the morphing as you have stated about everything and anyone Black in order to move away from this discussion. This is a people with an extensive record of violence against humanity in place yet romanticized and decorated with flags, mint julep, love stories, Sacajawea, and heroic movies to remove the sting of its evil and filth. 600,000 Iraqis are dead in 4yrs. I wonder if Al Sharpton will be tried for that by those who don’t even know who he is.

    It was good to read you.

  • Paotie

    Zedd ..

    One thing to remember: your narrative tells you how to read and view information. If you’ve got it in your head that White people are inherently racist, then you will read and find things that will support your thesis. An open mind is a hard thing to have.

    Likewise, I admit my narratives cloud my judgement at times. I think you and I want equality; I think we disagree on the mechanism. That is ok. That is what makes America what it is.

    Thanks for the dialogue.



  • Zedd


    Its impossible for Whites to be inherently racist. That would mean that it was genetic and it is not. Besides that is just too simplistic and rather emotional and irrational.

    The world IS skewed. There is an overwhelming Euro centric take. You don’t know that because you have no other culture to compare the status quo to. What you think is normal is not for a large portion of the planet.

    As for being closed minded…… I cant function in this society without being open minded. I would go mad. My ability to communicate with you and extrapolate in detail without using profanity or flying off the handle should signify to you that one has to be open minded to remain calm while communicating with several people who vehemently disagree with her and some who are hurling personal insults and profanity at her. I know that you (pejorative) don’t know. I know that you (pejorative again) are not evil. You just don’t know. I know that because I have had to put myself in your shoes. That requires an open mind. I have to give everyone the benefit of a doubt or else I would be miserable. I am one of those people who smiles at you at the grocery store when we make eye contact. I don’t assume that everyone is racist.

    What I know is that our world has a White supremacist slant. Its amazing that you don’t know that but I understand again that you would have a difficult time coming to that conclusion unless you have taken time to seriously consider it. It is automatically assumed that everyone SHOULD value what Whites value. It sort of sweet and innocent in a sense but it is exhaustingly annoying in another sense. It is the understanding of the innocence of it that makes people who are not White accommodate so well. You however don’t know it. What the accommodating is, is OPEN MINDEDNESS.

    There are groups who have not had a close relationship with Whites who don’t understand this unspoken benevolence. People of the Middle East don’t get why they are just supposed to go along. As a result they are demonized for saying “NO” (because of the spoiled thing that I was talking about). They say, “you must be crazy if you think we will do what you do and live like you do. Why should we? We will die before we do that.” They haven’t been beaten into submission YET (600,000 dead Irqis however….) The West gets baffled by the audacity of it. The East then thinks the West is evil.

    Anyway, I realise its difficult to accept all of this information all at once. Its as if I am talking about traveling in warp drive and living in Mars. It doesn’t add up with what you “know” about your world. I understand that because I was raised and socialized to understand that. I was socialized to be open minded about it.

    Lets hope that your next contribution does not put blame on African Americans for something or other, including acknowledging their history or saying ouch when it hurts!

  • Zedd

    former white guy

    Why not just Google what Al Sharpton has to say about gang violence? You are going to be surprised.

    You really don’t know who Al Sharpton is.

  • Zedd

    If anyone has a chance to watch the re-airing of Ophrah tonight, please do.

    The topic is “After Imus: Now What”.

  • former dumb white guy

    Sure I do. He’s a race-hustling opportunist. Anyone who supports him is uninformed or just plain in denial.

    Imus helps sick children. Sharpton uses children for his own political gain. I don’t care what he says about gang violence because all he does is talk.

  • It’s so obvious that Al Sharpton is only going after rap and hip hop because he realizes his own hypocrisy. File it in the too little too late department. Check out this guy’s take

  • former dumb white guy

    Oxymoron of the week:

    Rap music

  • zingzing

    former dumb white guy is an old man. only someone used to wearing adult diapers would whip out that chestnut of a criticism.

  • former dumb white guy


    I’m only 41, fuckface. But I am old enough to have heard and seen SchoollyD., who happened to be 10 years ahead of his time. Along with DJ Code Money, he pioneered gangsta rap. And he was also a hell of a great guy. I saw him several times and had a conversation with him at a club called Revival.

  • troll

    you can drop the ‘former’

  • Dan

    Zed #415: So then, no clarification on the Texas racial highway? Probably the only semi-graceful way out would be to just say you exaggerated to make a point. You would still lose some credibility, but ‘fessing up would at least show you aren’t impervious to shame. You are right about it “being there for all of us to see”, (#391).

    I’m not even going to make the effort to understand your hang-up with the word “victim”. I’m sure you’ve got all sorts of subtle, schizophrenic, conditions on who, when, and what circumstances someone can use the word. I was actually making a concession to your peculiar sensibilities. I don’t have any “white male tendencies” to want to “force” you to acknowledge anything. I don’t even regard you as a victim.

    Zed #421: Zed your refutation of the “Color of Crime” study (not “story”), indicates to me that you are statistically illiterate. That’s not something to be embarrassed by; a majority of people are.

    I could go through a point by point resolution of your “criticism’s”, but that would be cruel. And probably…pointless.

    Besides, the authors of the study have already acknowledged all the limitations, and anticipated every logical opposition up front. It’s a very comprehensive examination. It’s a delicate subject, and it’s treated that way.

    The striking thing about the study isn’t just the disparity in crime rates. (particularily interacial violence) It’s the magnitude. In context with prevailing societal wisdom, It is beyond belief.

    Yet the study goes undisputed, and unacknowledged.

  • Zedd


    You may have noticed that I also ignored Stinkey. Whey the comments are irrelevant and particularly useless, unless I am in a particularly silly mood, I tend to ignore. As I said, you misread what I said and I just don’t think its necessary to explain, as if guilty. I mean really we are talking about occurrences in my life. You realise that I never said how often my boyfriend drove with me. You just sort of put things together which ever way you wanted to in your mind and ran with it. You are waddling in minutia. Perhaps you should by yourself. Actually, I started to explain what took place in more detail then I realised just how silly it was. It was my experience. If you don’t believe it (shocking, major surprise), I hate to say but, who cares.

    The existence of the stats is not the issue. It is their validity. If you are familiar with research or sampling, you know that stating the method for attaining your data is essential. Just saying that you got it from a good mix of people is not sufficient, especially that sort of data where the diversity and the representative nature of it is crucial. You should know that. Not really sure what you are on about? It seems as if it is really important for you to discredit me. Not sure why. Did I affect you?

    If I feel that your data is informative, I will tell you. I love to learn. I get excited by new information. I cant however feel newly informed if the foundation for the information is problematic.

    You are a guy and its important for you to win. I realise that. However this is not something to address in that manner.

  • Dan

    I don’t think you’ve ignored any of my comments Zed.

    I think winning would be for us to agree about something. And that’s probably not going to happen. Although, maybe on another subject it might.

  • The DWG

    “You are a guy and its important for you to win.”

    I think she’s getting sexist.

  • Clavos

    I think she’s getting sexist.


    She just believes the pop psychology she reads in magazines at the checkout line.

  • Zedd


    Yes I’m being sexist. Women are from Venus and men are dumb. No not pop psychology from magazines. Life experience from marriage and growing up with guys all around me. You cant help it. You are in a frenzy of wanna-be-rightness right now. All crazed like a mad man. Breath!

    Okay you win. You are the supreme universal Al Sharpton guru! You are Imus’ road manager! You sir are the king of the galaxy. sigh

  • Nameless

    Al Sharpton is insane. End of story.

  • Zedd


    In the words of the great Gandalf:

    Silence you fool of a Took!

  • Clavos


    Sorry. Meaningless to me.

  • BMW

    Former dumb white guy wrote: I personally don’t think what Imus said is as much a big a deal as it’s being made out to be. The girls on the team need to get over it.

    It was a big deal. As a former dumb white guy you don’t get to determine what is or isn’t offensive outside of your group. I can say it’s no big deal to call someone a f*g, but I’m not gay so I have no right to determine that. It’s not up to me to determine if it’s okay to call your wife sweetie-pie either.

    What Imus said was offensive to the entire black community. And the community demanded action. It was not about Al Sharpton. Sharpton is just one person among the legions of people who spoke out in offense.

    No one demanded gays just “get over it” when gay slurs were made in February and no one makes similar ‘victim” charges of other ethnic groups when they stand up for what is right. The black community was well within its rights to demand the same respect we accord any other ethinic group and not to be held to an entirely different standard because of race.

  • BMW

    Paotie wrote: Have you noticed that there are only two or three Blacks on this thread that are commenting on this subject? There are however all manner of Whites who have come out of the wood works.

    My guess is that this has more to do with fact that, statistically, there are more whites than people of color on line in the first place.

  • Colette

    You can in no way compare someone who apologizes and never utters the insult again to someone who repeatedly does it and keeps apologizing for it. COME ON PEOPLE GET A GRIP DON IMUS IS RACIST AND HE CAN’T HELP IT.

  • BMW

    Zedd: Please ignore the posts regarding the publication “the Color of Crime.” It’s basically a lot of race-baiting googledy-gook from the New Century Foundation, a white nationist organization.

    If you check out the FBI’s latest crime stats (FBI Uniform Crime Reports) you’ll find: White men are primarily killing white men and black men are killing black men (with most black on black crime involving the drug trade)

    More whites than blacks were arrested in suburban areas for murder, rape, aggregated assault, burglary, larceny, motor vehicle theft, and violent crime in general (table 67).

    The same holds for metropolitan counties (Table 55)

    In cities, more whites than blacks are still arrested largely for rape, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny, car theft and violent crime overall. Blacks have a slightly higher murder rate (a little more than 3,900 for blacks compared with 3200 for whites). Table 49.

    These stats are from the FBI, not a white supremacist group with an agenda.

  • BMW

    Zedd: This article, focusing mostly on youths, might be helpful too:

    Building Blocks for Youth

    Race and the Juvenile Justice System

    In January 2000, the Building Blocks for Youth initiative issued its first report, The Color of Justice, which found that youth of color in California were more than eight times as likely to be incarcerated by adult courts as White youth for equally serious crimes.

    Building Blocks’ comprehensive national study, And Justice for Some, reported that youth of color are treated more severely than White youth at each stage of the justice system, even when charged with the same offenses. In October, 2000, Building Blocks’ third report, Youth Crime, Adult Time, an in-depth study of youth prosecuted as adults in 18 of the largest jurisdictions in the country, found racial disparities similar to the earlier reports, and raised serious concerns about the fairness and appropriateness of the process.

    These reports have built upon a growing body of research showing that youth of color receive disparate treatment in America’s juvenile justice system. In the most recent reporting to the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention of the US Department of Justice, every state but one that reported data found disproportionate confinement of minority youth. More than two-thirds of youths confined in America are minority youth, even though minorities make up only about one-third of America’s youth population.

    In a seminal meta-analysis conducted by researchers Carl Pope and Richard Feyerherm, two-thirds of the carefully constructed studies of state and local juvenile justice systems they analyzed found that there was a “race effect” at some stage of the juvenile justice process that affected outcomes for minorities for the worse. Their research suggested that “the effects of race may be felt at various decision points, they may be direct or indirect, and they may accumulate as youth continue through the system.” They suggest that the race effect in the juvenile justice system may be more common than in the adult system.

    There is evidence that stereotyping is affecting the treatment young people experience at the hands of the juvenile justice system. According to a 1998 analysis by University of Washington researchers, court reports prepared prior to sentencing by probation officers consistently give more negative portrayals of Black youth even when controlling for offense behavior and prior record, thus leading to harsher sentencing recommendations for Blacks. Professor George Bridges concluded that “The children would be charged with the same crime, be the same age and have the same criminal history, but the different ways they were described was just shocking.”

    More Fear, Less Crime, Fear of Minority Crime
    Despite sharp declines in youth crime, the public expresses great fear of its own young people. Although violent crime by youth in 1998 was at its lowest point in the 25-year history of the National Crime Victimization Survey, 62% of poll respondents felt that juvenile crime was on the increase. In the 1998/99 school year, there was less than a one-in-two-million chance of being killed in a school in America, yet 71% of respondents to an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll felt that a school shooting was likely in their community. Despite a 40% decline in school associated violent deaths between 1998 and 1999 and declines in other areas of youth violence, respondents to a USA Today poll were 49% more likely to express fear of their schools in 1999 than in 1998.

    This response is not simply an artifact of highly publicized school shootings. A 1996 CBS/New York Times poll, taken prior to any of the highly publicized school shootings, showed that 84% of respondents believed juvenile crime was on the increase. In a 1996 California poll, 60% of respondents reported believing that juveniles were responsible for most violent crime, when youths were actually responsible for about 13% of violent crime that year.

    In an environment in which fear of youth crime and actual crime are so out of sync, policies affecting young people are bound to be influenced. Since 1992, 47 states have made their juvenile justice systems more punitive by eroding confidentiality protections or making it easier to try juveniles as adults. For example, crime by youth fell more during the 1980’s and 1990’s than adult crime in California, yet California voters overwhelmingly passed proposition 21 in 2000, requiring that youth as young as age 14 be automatically tried as adults for certain offenses. In one estimate, more than 200,000 youths were prosecuted in adult court in America in 1998.12 Some of the policy changes may have been in response to the jump in juvenile homicides with guns from the mid-1980’s to the early 1990’s but other categories of juvenile crime did not increase during that period, and the public had unrealistic perceptions about crime long before those increases.

    At the same time as Americans are fearful of youth crime, they are more likely to exaggerate the threat of victimization by minorities. Twice as many White Americans believe they are more likely to be victimized by a minority than a White, despite the fact that Whites are actually three times more likely to be victimized by Whites than by minorities.

  • BMW wrote:

    Please ignore the posts regarding the publication “the Color of Crime.” It’s basically a lot of race-baiting googledy-gook from the New Century Foundation, a white nationist organization.

    If that’s true, then it logically follows that Professor Walter E. Williams, who read the report and then did his own independent study of the NCVS data must also be a race-baiter, since as he describes in this article, he found the NCVS data and the report to be factual in regard to interracial crime:

    “Last June, Jared Taylor, president of New Century Foundation, in Oakton, Va., held a press conference at Washington’s National Press Club to report on the foundation’s recently released study, “The Color of Crime.” Some of the study’s findings about interracial crime were surprising, so much so that I did an independent verification of the numbers.

    Since 1972, the U.S. Department of Justice has conducted a National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) to determine the frequency of certain crimes.

    One category is interracial crimes. Its most recent publication (1997), “Criminal Victimization in the U.S.,” reports on data collected in 1994. In that year, there were about 1,700,000 interracial crimes, of which 1,276,030 involved whites and blacks. In 90 percent of the cases, a white was the victim and a black was the perpetrator, while in 10 percent of the cases it was the reverse.

    Another finding of the NCVS report is that of the 2,025,464 violent crimes committed by blacks in 1994, 1,140,670 were against whites — that’s slightly over 56 percent. Whites committed 5,114,692 violent crimes; 135,360, or 2.6 percent were against blacks.

    In 1997, there were 2,336 whites charged with anti-black crimes and 718 blacks charged with anti-white crimes, so-called hate crimes. Although the absolute number of white offenders was larger, the black rate per 100,000 of the population was greater, making blacks twice as likely to commit hate crimes.

    Regardless of race, criminal violence is despicable and deserving of condemnation. But far more destructive are the official and unofficial attempts to mislead and conceal. Roughly 400 members of the major print and electronic media were invited to the press conference on “The Color of Crime.” According to Taylor, several asked for advanced copies before they’d consider sending anyone. Only 14 people stayed for the briefing and only a couple reported on the study, most notably The Washington Times and C-Span. One reporter said that he’d like to write a story but he doubted he could get it by his editor.

    If the facts were the other way around, everybody from The New York Times and President Clinton to the NAACP, Jesse Jackson and the Congressional Black Caucus would be shouting about it and demanding that something be done. Some might want to keep silent about the facts for fear that publicizing the true nature and magnitude of interracial crime might give, as I’ve been told, “aid and comfort to America’s white racists.”

    To the contrary, silence is perhaps one of the most effective recruitment tools for racists. They can use our silence for proselytizing disaffected whites with demagoguery about how hate crimes are not important unless a black is the victim and how no one cares about blacks raping white women and assaulting white men.”

    Professor Williams is a highly regarded economist and political scholar who teaches at George Mason University. Professor Williams is also Black.


  • BMW

    Clavos wrote: If that’s true, then it logically follows that Professor Walter E. Williams, who read the report and then did his own independent study of the NCVS data must also be a race-baiter, since as he describes in this article, he found the NCVS data and the report to be factual in regard to interracial crime.

    If he did, he obviously didn’t look at the actual stats from the FBI. Of course you’re quoting stats from 1994 and mine are from the current existing data, 2005.

  • BMW wrote:

    If he did, he obviously didn’t look at the actual stats from the FBI. Of course you’re quoting stats from 1994 and mine are from the current existing data, 2005.

    Actually, BMW, the arrest data is from the FBI’s annual report “Crime In The United States”, it is current through 2003, and published in 2005.

    The NCVS data is collected for the Department of Justice by the US Census Bureau, and the report is published by the Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics. This data is current through 2004, and published in 2005.

    All the data is compiled by and presented by the Department of Justice.

    It’s official FBI data. It’s unbiased. And it’s unequivocal.

  • STM

    Zedd wrote: “Women are from Venus and men are dumb.”

    Zedd! I’m surprised at you, of all people ….

  • Zedd


    Sorry, I was in cut up mode. But uhhhhmmm well all I can say is have a sit down with your wife. She will get you caught up. I’m sure she can write a novel as testimony to my statement.

    I don’t know what goes on.

  • Zedd


    Let it go. Who distributes statistical findings and says my sample was a good representation of people TAKE MY WORD. I’m basing everything on eyewitness accounts a highly proven unreliable source for substantiating the guilt of the accused.


    Move on………. Google some other “evidence”.

  • Hi: I recently wrote about the same issue on my Blog and thought you guys maybe interested in my opinion about the issue

  • STM

    You are probably right Zedd. I suspect my wife does think I’m dumb. But I believe that’s only because she’s madder than a cut snake …

  • BMW

    Clavos Wrote: The NCVS data is collected for the Department of Justice by the US Census Bureau, and the report is published by the Department of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics. This data is current through 2004, and published in 2005.

    Well, if you read your own post, the stats you quote were from 1994 and 1997. Where you picking and choosing these dates to skew the results? I wonder…

    The actual stats from the doj are here. Here is their verbatim quote: Although slightly less true now than before, most murders are intraracial

    From 1976 to 2004 —

    86% of white victims were killed by whites
    94% of black victims were killed by blacks

    Clavos, please note that INTRA-racial means within the same race.

    The actual stats (without the New Century distortions) also show that 65% of black offenders were involved with drug related killings. Again, straight from the report:

    For the years 1976-2004 combined –

    Black victims are greatly over represented in homicides involving drugs. Compared with the overall involvement of blacks as victims, blacks are less often the victims of sex-related homicides, workplace killings, and homicide by poison.

    You’ll also note that crime overall has been going down. By the way, the NCVS report is cited in the article I posted too, and they *interpret* the data very different from you (as I find do most credible sources on this issue).

  • BMW,

    My entire original point, stated in my #395 is as follows:

    The entire body of law enforcement (FBI) collected data does indicate that Blacks are more likely to commit crimes, and the data doesn’t indicate that the police are more likely to arrest Blacks, though that is a widely believed myth.

    That’s it. The rest of #395 is directly cut-and-pasted from the Color of Crime report.

    I only cited the intra racial data when you began to question the source, because, as you point out, it’s a significant proportion of the overall data in the case of Blacks. Remember that the report deals with ALL races, not just anglos and Blacks.

    As to crime overall going down: on a national basis, that’s true, but certain SMSAs are skyrocketing: the DC area and Miami readily come to mind.

    Here in South Florida, it’s rising significantly, but it’s primarily Hispanic (on Hispanic) crime, which is not surprising since Hispanics are 2/3 of the population.

  • Zedd #457:

    Thanks for the advice. Have a good evening.

  • BMW


    This should shed some light on the New Century Foundation.

    New Century Foundation and the American Renaissance Magazine use pseudoscience to give the impression that they provide well-researched, carefully thought-out assessments of differences between races. Contributors to the magazine cite facts and statistics derived from sometimes reputable sources, but taken out of context. The magazine’s writers extrapolate or exaggerate conclusions that the data does not bear out, or that they emphasize data that supports their own racist positions while downplaying or simply ignoring contrary evidence.

    Critics also argue that links between American Renaissance and the New Century Foundation with far right, neo-fascist and racist organizations and individuals (such as the Council of Conservative Citizens, the Pioneer Fund, the British National Party, Don Black and David Duke) are evidence that the magazine’s promotion of itself as “literate and intelligent” is a veneer for a crude and malevolent political agenda.

  • BMW,


  • BMW

    Clavos wrote: The entire body of law enforcement (FBI) collected data does indicate that Blacks are more likely to commit crimes, and the data doesn’t indicate that the police are more likely to arrest Blacks, though that is a widely believed myth.

    Umm…no, it doesn’t, and there is plenty of evidence that police are more likely to arrest Blacks (and that they get harsher sentences for similar crimes). Sorry.

  • STM

    Clav: I’m inclined to agree that blacks do get targeted more often, and are likely to receive higher sentences. There is plenty of evidence, empirical and otherwise, to suggest that the police are more likely stop a car with a black driver in a white neighbourhood late at night, but are unlikely to stop a car driven by a white person in a black neighbourhood in similar circumstances unlesas they’ve been seen to do something wrong.

    I’d think all the above would be true in some states more than others, and some cities more than others. But also, if it’s true that blacks per capita commit more crimes, perhaps the real answer is to find out why that is. People being marginalised and unable to break cycles of poverty would go a long way to explaining that.

    However, I still think the case of African Americans in regard to all of that is better served without the victim industry that can go with it (although that doesn’t mean people’s rights shouldn’t be championed).

    I understand the reasons it exists, and that often there is a case to answer, but in the end it becomes self-defeating.

    I’d also just like to point out to BMW – and Zedd knows this to be true – neither Clavos nor I are racists. We do like rowdy debate, however …

  • STM wrote:

    But also, if it’s true that blacks per capita commit more crimes, perhaps the real answer is to find out why that is. People being marginalised and unable to break cycles of poverty would go a long way to explaining that.

    Exactly. And I agree totally, which is why I quoted Professor Williams in the first place, because that’s HIS point as well.

    Apparently, crime in the US is not decreasing, according to the FBI’s own web site:

    “Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported an increase of 3.7 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention in the first half of 2006 when compared to figures reported for the first six months of 2005. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The number of property crimes in the United States from January to June of 2006 decreased 2.6 percent when compared to data from the same time period in 2005. Property crimes include burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. Arson is also a property crime, but data for arson are not included in property crime totals. Figures for 2006 indicate that arson increased 6.8 percent in the first half of the year when compared to 2005 figures for the same time period.”

    Here’s a link to a table with global figures for the past several years.

  • STM – I was stopped…in Watts…with my girlfriend…now wife of almost 24 years….by the cops…and asked what I was doing in that neighborhood…

    my soon to be wife knew a good place to get chili cheese fries and I didn’t know any better!

    The police officer explained to me what town I was in or more appropriately…what section of town and suggested the nearest on-ramp to the freeway….

    now…I always wondered…and maybe someone could enlighten me…why did the nice police officer invite my wife and I out of Watts….in 1983??? In the middle of the daytime??? When all I was doing was getting my girlfriend some fries????

    I’m just wondering….I’ve really never figured it out…maybe someone can help me out here…don’t jump to any conclusions…make any assumptions….just try to explain to me why the police would want to ask me to leave town…

  • STM

    Mate, I’m sure they didn’t want you in Watts because your personal safety was at risk. It wasn’t really a safe place in those days was it??

    Same as mine was in Santa Barbara when I walked about a kilometre down to a Mexican place that was closed and ended up in a bar next door, and the black guy I was with told me just as we were about to go in: “Don’t worry, I always keep a cut-throat razor on a chain round my neck”, then pulled it out to show me.

    Once inside, he told me: “Everything will be fine as long you don’t look at the women”.

    Well, he was half right … I didn’t look at the women.

  • BMW

    Clavos wrote: Apparently, crime in the US is not decreasing, according to the FBI’s own web site:

    Yes, that is true. I actually think that after the ban on assualt weapons was lifted, these numbers started creeping up. I may be wrong on that. On the rest, I would tend to believe the interpretations of the FBI, the DOJ and leading criminologists well before I’d believe the Census Bureau, a ECONOMIST and a white supremacist group.

    I didn’t read anything about poverty and marginalization in the Williams article, especially after the first stat he quoted — stating 90% of crime was black on white — was blantently wrong.

  • BMW

    former dumb white guy wrote: Where’s Sharpton’s public outcry across the media each time a black child is killed in gang-related crossfire? Because white people aren’t involved?

    My guess is the media isn’t interested in black on black crime and probably doesn’t seek him out for a quote, just like they’ve ignored his calls, along with that of others, to clean up rap and hip hop music. A large number of people in the black community feel the industry in addition to degrading women, is exploiting youth, corrupting morals and most of all not representative of the community as a whole.

    By the way I never said or thought you or Clavos was a racist, although I have to say when someone posts white supremacist garbage on a blog it does give one pause.

  • BMW

    Sorry. I just realized that the last part of my post was intended for STM and Clavos, but I pushed the “send” button way to soon.

  • Zedd

    STM and BMW

    I agree with both of your contributions.

    Its a waist of time to focus on a matter and not try to understand its causes. The groups that promote and distort the stats consist of really small people, people who come from depressed backgrounds or just enscure individuals who are more concerned with proving other ideas which ultimately support the idea that Whites are naturally superior. Its rather sad and embarrasing in the light of what we know about our history and our genetics.

    Choosing to ignore what we know about how and why African Americans have evolved in this country and focusing on the end result after hundreds of years of no such statisitcs being in place, is bizzare at best.


    I am suprised that you didn’t figure out just how much of fringe group this is upon reading the first few lines of the data. Whether extreme liberal or wako conservative, there are tell tale signs with these people.

  • Zedd


    Like STM said, that was the peek of the gang and drug epidemic. You were not safe. They probably saw just how green you looked. During the crack epidemic, addict Whites would come into the hood for drugs. Actually they still do.

    I think you are really trying to say that there is no problem for Blacks.

    My question to you is why is it important to disprove what millions of sane hard working human beings are saying is true, especially KNOWING what country you live in; Knowing that at no time in history have they been believed but that in retrospect the deeds of the past have ALWAYS been exposed. Why is it that in the present it is always unbelievable? I’d love to get your perspective on this.

  • Zedd


    Clavos is very naive. You will realise this after a few more weeks on these threads.

    He wasn’t born here and wants to believe the myth of America really badly. Its a reoccurring theme in a lot of his opinions.

    I don’t think he is a racist at all. He just doesn’t know this country well enough. Truthfully who would believe some of this stuff. American racism is just strange. Its so deeply ingrained and neatly packaged. We have lived “normal” lives for centuries with this cancer festering, always. Its the huge elephant in the room. We just move on, smiling and high fiveing each other therefore many NORMAL people look and think there is no real problem. Its our bizarre reality… sigh.

    When crime statistics indicate that there is a huge problem, they conclude what what normal people would conclude in NORMAL situations. They conclude that something is wrong with these people. They conclude what is the right conclusion in most situations. They don’t understand that we are Alice in Wonderland. Our world is highly distorted and we just go along to survive because we are tired. We are crumbling under the stress and we are also prevailing amazingly.

  • Yes, that is true. I actually think that after the ban on assualt weapons was lifted, these numbers started creeping up.

    Classic example of magical thinking. The crimes that are up are things like rape and burglary and white collar crime. None of them committed with assault weapons. In fact, virtually no crimes int he US use assault weapons, and the ban was utterly meaningless. You’re seeing causal relationships that don’t exist except in your desire for them to.

    And the truth is that crime has been down steadily for 20 years, then we have a slight blip upwards for one year and you think the sky is falling. Let’s see if the trend continues and then look for causation, perhaps.


  • BMW,

    Zedd’s got it absolutely right:


    Clavos is very naive. You will realise this after a few more weeks on these threads.

    I live in a fantasy world of my own making…

  • I wasn’t denying anything Zedd. STM said it was unlikely for a white person to be stopped by the police in a black neighborhood. I was pretty clean cut at the time…I’m sure I didn’t look like a drug user…it was broad daylight…I was just pointing out that it happens…I guess the real question is…should it?

    I would never deny that black folks get there balls busted…figuratively speaking of course…more often than whites by law enforcement…I don’t think I’ve ever seen a video of a bunch of cops beating the shit out of a white person…

    Why are there neighborhoods like Watts? I live in a middle class neighborhood…all shapes sizes and colors…so, normally, a person wouldn’t look out of place based on skin color…but why does a white guy in jeans and a t-shirt look out of place in Watts?

    Somehow, Zedd, you want me to feel like it’s my fault…and I don’t even live in CA! I don’t know who’s keeping you down as they say…but trust me here…it sure as hell ain’t me! It must be bush…fucker that he is!

  • Zedd


    I’m had to rethink my post. I am really sorry. That was rude of me. However, as a child of a man who came here with the American dream in his heart, I understand how it is that the hope for what America is can overshadow the reality to an extent. Especially if your interactions are limited to a certain group of people, like most of us.

  • Zedd


    No I don’t want you to think its your fault at all. I just think that it would be nice to acknowledge it when African Americans say their America is not the same as yours.

    Its what causes Blacks to continue to harp. Every time they say ouch, people come out of the wood works and get offended like it annoys THEM that they have been injured. If you don’t feel heard, you cant heal.

    People will say, “I believe that there is racism but this time……..”. Or “there are racists but this guy is not”. I have never heard a White American, non Jew say “yes that is racist” or “yes he is racist”. There is always a caveat.

  • Apology accepted, Zedd.

    And props to you for having the backbone to do it. It’s an uncommon trait among people these days…


  • There is a caviat in this one Zedd…I’m sorry, but if you want people to listen then guys like Sharpton and Jackson need to shut the fuck up so people like you can be heard!

    I’ve been reading your comments and I get the impression that you think Al Sharpton is some kind of hero…

    Al Sharpton is the preverbial pot calling the kettle black! Sorry, but if you want people to listen, you need a better spokesman!

    I won’t listen to Sharpton or Jackson when it comes to race relations any more than I would listen to Brittney Spears for parenting advice!

    I never defended Imus…I’ve said more than once on these threads at BC that I think he’s an idiot…and that free speech had nothing to do with it…

    but why…all of a sudden…is there all this righteous indignation over someone calling women ho’s? Especially someone that was only heard by about 1% of the population? Like the word doesn’t get thrown around a couple billion times a day over the airwaves already?

    It was an issue between him and them…he lost his job…they accepted his apology…that should be the end of the story…

    I don’t know if Imus is a racist…I’ve never really listened to him…neither did 99% of the country. I keep reading that he supposedly said this kind of shit all the time…how would I know? Why should I care? I already have my opinion of CBS anyway! And all I ever read is…he said this stuff all the time…show me!

    I heard some woman on tv say that what he said was horrendous…and like I said before…I have pictures of the ovens at Dachau…that’s horrendous…calling someone a name is just a little less than horrendous.

    Now my question to you is…if a person uses a racial slur once…does that make them a racist? I’m asking here…I really wonder what your thought on that is.

  • Zedd


    No. I don’t think that if a person uses a racial slur once it makes him racist.

    You see racism has to do with power. Its not being prejudice. It has to do with what your prejudice can accomplish.

    If you have no power and cant influence anyone of power (a manager/supervisor, judge, politician, person who is in charge of an essential service, etc.) than you can not be racist. A lot of people confuse racism with prejudice.

    Imus knows that he has influence. Believe it or not, he is quite regarded in Washington. Looking at the roster of his guests suggests that he has influence else the guests that come on his show wouldn’t bother. He says the things that he does knowing that people listen. He was racist.

    People who don’t know many Blacks personally make up their minds about Blacks from the subtle images of Blacks in the media. Some are self inflicted by ignorant Blacks and some are induced by racists. The images that are perpetuated by ignorant Blacks in many cases equal to the cases of stupidity by Whites however because there is a human element that is attached to the White person, their misdeeds are understandable. When you compound the racist contribution, things get crazy. Add our history and the economic and social legacy and you’ve got a serious problem.

    On Al Sharpton….

    I have dreaded and disliked Al Sharpton for years. I was thrown by the hair and I just get turned off by the preacher tone of many Black activists. Its just a personal pet peeve. He seemed very buffoonish. There are MANY of that variety, as there are many White activists and plain fools out there with loud mouths and very little substance. The unions are full of them.

    It wasn’t until the last presidential election that I started listening to Sharpton. In the past I would just gloss over him and wish that he would sit down somewhere, like a lot of Blacks say about him and Jackson. It was in this instance however that I actually listen and realised that he is very smart. Andy I am not an emotional person and don’t get carried away by the charisma of an individual only. I value substance and look for it. If you paid any attention to the Democratic candidates, he was the only one that was focused and hitting on all of the issues WITH SUBSTANCE. I was shocked!!! He was lucid and on point consistently. I am not sure if he grew up as most activists tend to do and channeled his energy in the right direction over time or if I grew up and just finally listened. That man is intelligent.

    He won’t sugar coat things. We need that! We are so fuzzy now because of spin and more spin. We actually expect to be shmoozed. Sharpton is on top on things not only on race issues but on all political issues. He is focused and unyielding. He was saying things about this administration that no one would say at that time, with clarity and intelligence. He wasn’t whining or bafooning.

    I don’t know what it means that he is a Black leader. I know that he is an activist who is Black. He is charismatic. He began as a pentecostal preacher at 4yrs old.(I guess a loud mouth prodigy?:o). He has a colorful past as James Browns’ tour manager. He knows flare. However lately I would say, he has become less flamboyant and more focused.

    I am a reluctant fan of his. Because of my conservative persona, he makes me uncomfortable. But one cant ignore his intelligence. Listen to him.

    As for him being a racist, no one has been able to tell me how HE is a racist. I think American (non Jew) Whites feel uneasy when race matters are discussed. He wont stop discussing race matters so he is deemed bad by default. Check yourself on this.

    Most Whites that are over 35 grew up thinking that Blacks who speak up are trouble makers. More than likely your kids would get him and not think twice about it. They understand Black culture far better. We don’t scare them :o). They understand the verbal jousting that we do and don’t get scared. They know that we are very tongue and cheek when we parley verbally (you wont get what I am saying)…. Your kids would be fine with him unless they hear you saying really stupid things in front of them. Then the cycle will then continue.

  • Zedd


    Also…. (sorry for the lengthy response)…..

    You see its not hard to hear what Sharpton is saying. He is clear and to the point. It wouldn’t make a difference if Mother Theressa came back from the grave and said the same thing, it wouldn’t be received.

    We are a sick culture. We are not addressing it because we think that if we do, we wont be Super, No.1, Winner Always America. We don’t realise just how crippling this problem is. We are not taking advantage of a large percent of geniuses who rot in the “hood”. That is just stupid. These are our people. We would gain from them.

    Every generation denies and millions slip further and further behind. Some climb out and struggle through their life and their children struggle and their children even as executives, ivy league grads still struggle. Their skin means something to millions of people. People like Oprah slip through the cracks and yet people still say “but she is Black”.

    We are ill Andy.

    Its not Al Sharpton. Its our nation.

    And to explain to you, it wasn’t the use of the word ho. It was that it was hurled at specific young ladies that weren’t hoers and a reference to their hair texture along with the word Jigaboo (might as well say water melon eating jungle bunnies). The word ho was bad enough but the rest was insane. Lets just all agree that he doesn’t need to be making millions while the rest of us who are smart enough not to say such things AT WORK make six figures at best. He needs to go home. Like you said, he’s an idiot. Well than he doesn’t need to get paid.

  • Zedd – the reason that I believe Sharpton to be a racist is some of the things he’s done in the past…the Tawana Brawley thing…yeah, I understand that he was defending a young lady that he believed was telling the truth…but if you can find me a quote where he apologized for his actions, I’ll be surprised…I can still hear him on the news back then…I grew up in Jersey and all we had was NY news back then…

    I’ve just recently read some of the stuff that he spewed back then and it was hateful…and it was aimed at the wrong people!

    And he did the same thing in Crown Heights! His rhetoric pretty much started a riot and caused a death and he’s never answered for it.

    I see him on TV and those are the things I hear from him. All the hatred and bullshit he stirred up when I was a young man…maybe he has changed…you’re right about him not sounding nearly as much like a preacher as he used to…but still…

    you claim to know people…to know all about them…and at the same time you think I don’t know what you’re talking about with the verbal jousting thing…the dozens is a very old game lady! But if you know people so well why do you have so much trouble grasping why white people don’t want to listen to Sharpton anymore? You know, he cried wolf and people died…and now that’s all they hear is another cry about a wolf!

    Pentacostal huh…speaking in tongues and stuff??? that’s out there man!

  • STM

    BMW: “By the way I never said or thought you or Clavos was a racist, although I have to say when someone posts white supremacist garbage on a blog it does give one pause”.

    That’s a bit of nonsense there … tell me what white supremacist garbage I’ve posted anywhere?? As I pointed out in a previous post, my son is black (or partly). Nurturing someone I love from infancy to manhood hardly makes me a white supremacist.

    I’ve also seen Clav here arguing against racists. I think what he’s really arguing against here is victimhood.

  • BMW

    Andy Marsh wrote: Al Sharpton is the preverbial pot calling the kettle black! Sorry, but if you want people to listen, you need a better spokesman!

    Spokesman for whom? Who elected Al Sharpton as a spokesman? I don’t believe there is such a thing. Is George Bush spokesman for white people? Pat Buchannan? David Duke? Why would you assume that one person could ever be spokesperson for an entire group of people?

  • BMW

    STM wrote: That’s a bit of nonsense there … tell me what white supremacist garbage I’ve posted anywhere?? As I pointed out in a previous post, my son is black (or partly). Nurturing someone I love from infancy to manhood hardly makes me a white supremacist.

    Posting information or supporting any publication having to do with the New Century Foundation, Jared Taylor, the American Renaissance or the “Color of Crime” certainly does have white supremacist implications, since those are the underpinings of the organization and its publications.

  • BMW

    STM wrote: That’s a bit of nonsense there … tell me what white supremacist garbage I’ve posted anywhere?? As I pointed out in a previous post, my son is black (or partly). Nurturing someone I love from infancy to manhood hardly makes me a white supremacist.

    I think somewhere above I apologized for my mistake and acknowledged that you were not the person who posted the New Century/Color of Crime information. I think that was Dan.

  • BMW

    STM wrote: I’ve also seen Clav here arguing against racists. I think what he’s really arguing against here is victimhood.

    Standing up for your rights and speaking out against racist slurs is not victimhood. Funny how people of color can be labeled negatively for doing the very things others do without question.

  • Al Sharpton should be fired just like Imus. I think I will go get a rainbow sign and march just like they did in Atlanta but, I might get shot by someone like Imus explained!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • jim

    if the jena six were white would the re. al still be there to help them. why does rasicism work only for the blacks, what about the white peoples rights

  • angry

    This just angeres me to death. Has anyone ever heard Snoop Dogg? his entire albums are full of Hoes and Niggas. and he sells millions.

    But because Don Imus is white he gets the boot.

    I bet anything that Don Imus picked up his terms from Snoop Dogg.

    THINK PEOPLE, where did this come from in the first place?

    Cecil Pigg from Arkansas didnt start saying HO. he says Whore.

    Rufus LeShawn Damarius Walker from Dc says Ho.
    Snoop Dogg from Cali says Ho.

    I believe Don Imus was simply trying to be “hip” and failed miserably.

    i also think this should be a lesson to other jocks. Dont try to be hip. Ignore it and hopefully it will get less airtime, and eventually go away.

  • angry

    does anyone here watch MTV? it used to be F***ing Music television.

    but look how it has been influenced.

    The last good show, Headbangers ball was cancelled and then replaced by a reincarnation that never took off.

    That was the last GOOD music show, imho.

    now i watch GAC and TNN as they have more relevant and better music. LOL.

  • Angry

    The truth is if there was even one WET (white entertainment television)

    or even one UCCF (United Caucasian College Fund)

    NOW THAT would be a rascist organization.

    we have the Hispanic Chamber of commerce and the African American chamber of commerce, and then we just have the plain old chamber of commerce. Now i wonder who pays for that.

  • Angry

    you talk about “one day the whites will be a persecuted minority and then the shoe will be on the other foot”.

    has anyone been to Miami-Dade county in Florida?

    We ARE the minority and are indeed Irrelevant. So it does indeed work both ways.

    I moved to Arkansas to get away from “Being” the minority.

    If i have to go further, i will move to some european country that is 98% White, and leave this place to them. have a nice day.

  • Angry

    or i will move to Brazil or venezuela since those people have a head on their shoulders when i was in college i learned something. The Venezuelans come here to learn and share much with us. So do the brazillians. The Cubans – the ones here are Fidel Castro’s Rejects. they got tossed out of their country because they were assholes to begin with.

    the mexicans are hard workers but not in the least intellectual. I still have respect for them though.

    Blacks are Animals in the cities. But not so in small rural towns, especially in black towns that are isolated. They will welcome you and give you thanksgiving dinner, and tell you about the one theif down the street you should avoid.

    the country black also doesnt quote al sharpton. They truly make you feel welcome. I have noticed the huge difference. Black people here are not Ni***rs. they are simply people living their lives, pretty oblivious to the news about Imus,

    and its all good. really it is.

    They also dont name their kids Demarius. they have normal names like Steve and Bill and Todd.

  • STM

    Angry: “they have normal names like Steve and Bill and Todd”.

    Since when was Todd a normal name??

  • Adam Guzman

    I’m no conservative. And I don’t like conservatives at all, but Al Sharpton should go. He’s a stupid moron. I love black people, but there’s two kinds I hate – those annoying black leaders (and I think this is something that has been around for 20 or so years), gangsta and political rappers, who speak out against Israel.

  • Adam Guzman

    And I’m against anti-white hatred. I’m a Puerto Rican who grew up around white people. What’s wrong with them?