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Holder Incompetent, Tries to Hide it by Playing Race Card

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Does anyone remember Johnny Carson as “Carnac the Magnificent?” Well, the image accompanying this post clearly illustrates how Attorney General (AG) Eric Holder, made up via Photoshop, thinks and acts. Isn’t it amazing how fantasy can mimic real life?

Barack Hussein Obama was supposed to lead us into a post-racial America. Instead, his presidency has become a study in corruption and incompetence, with accusations of racism toward anyone who dares state the truth. And his crony, Eric Holder, is furthering Obama’s agenda of incompetence and racism.

Eric Holder has brought the office of AG to a new, immeasurably low level. And that feat was quite difficult, considering that he must be compared to our previously low level AG, Janet Reno. Holder shows a total contempt for the US Constitution, holding it to be an obstacle to his progressive and racist agenda. Holder feels that some minorities, blacks in particular, should be accorded greater rights, privileges and entitlements, especially at the expense of others, notably whites. The racist bias that has suffused the Department of Justice (DOJ), is exemplified in his dropping the New Black Panther Party case. Now we are even hearing some senators call for Holder’s resignation.

On December 17, 2011, Attorney General Eric Holder, who served as a senior legal advisor to the Obama presidential campaign team and was a member of Obama’s vice presidential selection committee, played the race card in an interview published on December 18 in the New York Times. Holder said, “This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him. Both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.” He actually said that! The DOJ provided no evidence to support Holder’s claims. The White House has never returned requests for comment on whether President Obama agrees with his top law enforcement officer’s allegations of racial motivations.

Let’s examine some of the highlights (lowlights?) of Holder’s less than stellar career:

  • Wanted to try Kalid Sheik Mohammed in a civilian court (in NYC), which even Democrats said was a bad idea
  • Tried to close Guantanamo Bay
  • Sued states over immigration laws
  • (Mis)handling of Fast and Furious
  • Dismissed the Black Panther voter intimidation case
  • Decided to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act
  • Sued states to stop voter ID laws

And I’m sure someone will explain how “Wascally Wepublicans” are responsible for Holder’s actions.

Charles Krauthammer explained what he thought was the rationale behind this charge from Holder, “It’s a defensive tactic for his political troubles. It’s clearly a cheap shot of an attorney general who is in political trouble. The reason he is, he is one of the most incompetent attorneys general in U.S. history. He is the guy who has led a department that has been either totally ignorant or disingenuous or worse on the Fast and Furious scandal.”

Krauthammer said this use of the race card was dangerous, particularly when it could stoke racial animosity. “And now he plays the race card,” Krauthammer continued, “I think it’s, to use his word, a cowardly use of the race card and it’s unbecoming. It also is dangerous in a country where it can stoke that kind of racial animosity. He shouldn’t be using it.”

President Barack Hussein Obama, without betraying the slightest concern about Holder’s latest remarks, has often proclaimed his complete confidence in AG Eric Holder.

Are any of Holder’s remarks reflective of Obama and his administration? Well, judge for yourself. None of this [playing the race card] is surprising because Obama had telegraphed his race-oriented mindset in his book, in his church association, and in his projecting statement that small town people “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them.” He has worn race on his sleeve numerous times as president. And it’s getting rather unwelcome. Obama and his administration can’t keep pulling the race card every time they’re in a situation where bad leadership was exercised.

But that’s just my opinion.

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  • jamminsue

    Warren, I am sad to say, your own racism is loud and clear in this article

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Warren Beatty

    Re: comment #1, jamminsue, please elaborate and cite specific examples. And please inform me specfifically of any errors made.

  • Clavos

    These days, the race card is played so adroitly (and reflexively) by the “progressives” as to make it nearly impossible to criticize in any way, even if deserved, any person of color.

  • Zingzing

    and that’s why people of color are never criticized! EVER!

  • Michael Green

    Apparently, when it says, “Personal attacks are NOT allowed,” that is limited only to commenters and not the blogger. So I’ll just say that his arguments would be welcome at any KKK meeting. Got it, Warren?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Glad you put progressives in scare quotes.

  • http://cinemasentries.com/ El Bicho

    #3 offers an interesting perspective. How unfortunate being on a thread of an article by Warren “Xenophobe” Beatty undermines the point trying to be made.

    Was “Himpton” not exotic enough to include with Holder’s name to show how different he is? Or was the inclusion of the picture enough?

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Here goes Warren again –

    Barack Hussein Obama was supposed to lead us into a post-racial America. Instead, his presidency has become a study in corruption and incompetence, with accusations of racism toward anyone who dares state the truth. And his crony, Eric Holder, is furthering Obama’s agenda of incompetence and racism.

    Riiiiiight. This is a classic case of psychological projection. How do we know this? Because Warren’s accusations are solely based upon Obama and Holder ‘using the race card’. Just because Obama and Holder are black and go to church with other black people and ‘used the race card’ (in Warren’s opinion), they must therefore be racist.

    Which is sorta like saying that a woman who says she’s a rape victim must actually be the rapist because she’s the one who made the accusation.

    Warren also said that Obama’s racism is evident by the statement that people in small towns “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them.” Um, hate to break it to you, Warren, but I grew up in a really, really small town – you’ve got some idea just how small – and if Obama said that, then he’s simply being ENTIRELY ACCURATE.

    =========

    Anyway, to address Warren’s list of oh-so-tyrannical miscarriages of justice:

    Wanted to try Kalid Sheik Mohammed in a civilian court (in NYC), which even Democrats said was a bad idea

    Yeah, yeah – so tell me, Warren, exactly how is it that America has the HIGHEST incarceration rate of the civilized world, more than any communist nation, if our civilian courts are so liberally lenient? Hm? And FYI, the ONLY reason that it would have been a bad idea for KSM to be tried in NYC was because there would have been a very real reason for the defense to cry ‘mistrial’ because of the location itself…which would have resulted not in KSM’s release, but the trial being moved to, say, Texas.

    Tried to close Guantanamo Bay

    FYI, Warren, the rights the Founding Fathers included in the Constitution are there NOT because they thought that such should belong to only Americans, but because they believed that such rights belonged to EVERYONE. “…that all men are created equal”, remember? That’s one reason why George Washington refused to allow his men to torture the Hessians, because he knew that it was wrong to do so and that it would only make us look bad in the eyes of the world. It’s really sad that a different George a few years back apparently thought that George Washington was just a naive liberal when it came to torture.

    Sued states over immigration laws

    Hey – it’s the anti-WWB law, which makes “walking while brown” a good reason to say, “Papers, please!” I guess in Warren World it’s SO patriotic for a cop to be able to walk up to someone and ask for their proof of citizenship even though there is ZERO probable cause other than the cop’s suspicion….

    (Mis)handling of Fast and Furious

    Maybe Holder screwed the pooch on this one…but no one outside the DOJ yet knows the whole story. I will withhold judgement on this until I do know the whole story. BTW, Warren, remember how the Bush administration was firing attorneys general for refusing to prosecute voter fraud cases even when the attorneys general pointed out that there was CLEARLY insufficient evidence to do so? Of course, the fact that the Bush administration wanted the prosecutions against Democratic candidates a few months before an election was purely a coincidence, wasn’t it? And when Attorney General Gonzalez gave testimony on the matter that consisted almost solely of “I don’t know” and “I don’t remember”, where was your outrage? Hm?

    Dismissed the Black Panther voter intimidation case

    You mean the SAME one that the Bush administration refused to prosecute because of lack of evidence of a crime?

    Decided to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act

    Yeah, all Americans have the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness…except for those gay people running around and shooting ‘gay rays’ at innocent teenagers and turning them all of a sudden into flaming homosexuals! BTW, Warren, in my experience, those who are racist are much more likely to be homophobic, too. Just sayin’….

    Sued states to stop voter ID laws

    Oh, no!!!! Somebody, Somewhere might be voting illegally!

    BTW, Warren, a recent study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice found just seven cases of voter fraud out of three million votes cast in Wisconsin during the 2004 election, a fraud rate of 0.0002 percent. All seven of these cases involved persons with felony convictions who weren’t eligible to vote after being released from prison.

    But if you’d like to read about a REAL voter fraud case, here’s one. And then there’s this guy named Mitt Romney who voted in the state where he has a residence…even though the ‘residence’ is in his son’s basement in Massachusetts. Then there was Ann Coulter who did much the same thing back in 2008.

    Ah, but silly me, it’s just us LIBERALS who are committing all the voting fraud…never mind that nearly all the DOCUMENTED voting fraud (not registration fraud (which both parties have done)) is happening over on the REPUBLICAN side. But why is it that nearly all the DOCUMENTED voting fraud is happening on the Republican side and not much on the Democratic side regardless of who’s in the White House? Are we sneakier than the Republicans? Or smarter? Or maybe we just aren’t doing it? Nah, can’t be that last one, can it?

    =======

    And one more thing, Warren – if you want to talk voter fraud, I’ve got a standing challenge for BC conservatives – for every case of voter fraud (a felony) that resulted from voter registration fraud (a misdemeanor) by ACORN and any other liberal group, I’ll show you a THOUSAND voters who were wrongfully disenfranchised by Republican groups.

    How ’bout those odds, Warren! A thousand to one! Care to take me up on that?

  • D.Drake

    If all the AFRICAN Americans would simply return to their beloved Africa, then all the BLACK Americans would not get this negative vile wrap that seems to be a stench from those who would DIVIDE.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Clavos –

    You’ve got Dan (not Miller), Warren, and now D. Drake on your side. The old saying goes, ‘lay down with dogs, and you get up with fleas’…the moral being in this instance that if a lot of the people who share your political philosophy seem to be, well, of the type that reflects poorly on the side you’ve chosen, then maybe, just maybe you should rethink where your political philosophy is leading….

  • Cannonshop

    Warren, Holder’s a LAWYER, he’s going to do his best to serve the client he believes he’s working for. Being as his primary experience was prosecuting “civil rights” cases on behalf of minorities, it’s NATURAL that he will, as AG, put his emphasis there, and like most specialists, avoid functions he has little experience dealing with.

    (also, he’s more accomplished than his boss-at least, prior to 2009 or so-he’s actually TRIED cases in front of judges and juries.)

    I’d suggest to you that we haven’t really had a GOOD, Skilled, Attorney General since Bobby Kennedy, but such men are rarities, Holder’s doing the best ANY political appointee is likely to do-and you can’t show me a Republican appointee that’s done a better job IN the job, so maybe you need to lighten up a bit.

  • Arco Conservadora

    “Holder Incompetent, Tries to Hide it by Playing Race Card”

    True but hardly new news.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Hey, Warren!

    Here’s something can really sink your teeth into!

    A Republican lawmaker in Arizona is hoping his state creates a holiday celebrating white people.

    According to a CBS affiliate in Phoenix, state Rep. Cecil Ash made his request felt on the Arizona House floor this week during a discussion about Latino Americans in Arizona.

    After Rep. Richard Miranda suggested that the state should have a Latino American day, Ash made his statement.

    “I’m supportive of this proposition,” he said. “I just want them to assure me that when we do become in the minority you’ll have a day for us.”

    The comment produced some laughs from his fellow lawmakers who thought Ash was being facetious. However, he revealed later that he was not joking.

    “Yes, I think it was appropriate,” he said. “It was appropriate for the mood that was in the House and I think that if and when the Caucasian population becomes a minority, they may want to celebrate the accomplishments and the contributions of the Caucasian population the same way.”

    Gee, Warren – do you think the whites who are in the minority in the MS Delta should also have a “white heritage day”, too?

  • Igor

    #3-Clavos is clearly wrong, since it is Warren who has dragged race in.

    Clavos: “These days, the race card is played so adroitly (and reflexively) by the “progressives” as to make it nearly impossible to criticize in any way, even if deserved, any person of color.”

    Clearly refuted by:

    Warren: “Barack Hussein Obama was supposed to lead us into a post-racial America. Instead, his presidency has become a study in corruption and incompetence, with accusations of racism toward anyone who dares state the truth. And his crony, Eric Holder, is furthering Obama’s agenda of incompetence and racism.”

  • Clavos

    Thanks for proving my point, Igor.

  • zingzing

    so the point of your comment on an article which spends most of its time criticizing black people is that it’s impossible to criticize black people? quite the point you have there, clavos.

  • zingzing

    warren, if you’re gonna plagiarize, don’t link directly to the article you’re plagiarizing right in the middle of plagiarizing it. how much of this article is you playing frankenstein with other authors’ work?

  • zingzing

    oh, i’m referring to the last two sentences on the first page of the article, which are lifted verbatim from the linked article.

  • zingzing

    Holder said, “This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him. Both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.”

    does it bother anyone (including the supposed author,) that warren used what holder said to attack obama, and went so far as to call obama a racist?

    i mean, holder was absolutely 100% right…

  • Glenn Contrarian

    zing –

    It’s like I said above:

    Which is sorta like saying that a woman who says she’s a rape victim must actually be the rapist because she’s the one who made the accusation.

  • zingzing

    the utter hypocrisy and idiocy on display here (most surprisingly from clavos, who doesn’t seem to get how foolish he was to post #3,) is a sad display of the right’s disconnect from reality.

    “Obama and his administration can’t keep pulling the race card every time they’re in a situation where bad leadership was exercised.”

    beyond being a “when did you stop beating your wife” kind of thing, that statement also smacks of playing the race card itself. it’s a cyclical thing that the right plays just as often (and maybe more) than the left. pretending to be innocent is one thing, but it doesn’t mean ANYONE is falling for it.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Is Clavos a member of the right? That’s news to me.

  • Clavos

    Um, right in the very first comment, the author is accused of racism — oh, but wait…it’s my rightwing disconnection from reality that has imbued me with a lifetime of foolishness, zing — oops, isn’t that redundant?

    rightwing = fool.

    leftwing = sage.

    Oh well…

  • Arco Conservadora

    Sometimes, actually most times, it’s just not worth it Clavos.

  • Zingzing

    he’s a sometimes member of the right, Roger. Like sometimes he is an American. whatever’s convenient, I suppose. He has it both ways more successfully than most, I’ll grant.

  • Zingzing

    clavos, so what if the first comment accuses the “author” of racism? it doesn’t make your point valid. Warren certainly does his best to appeal to racist sentiments. And he seems to be of the opinion that just because something is good for minorities, it’s bad for white people.

    And yes, #3 was damn foolish. Warren spent the entire 2 pages criticizing black “progressives” and playing the race card.

  • Zingzing

    Frankly, I’m surprised that the editor didn’t warn him how hypocritical this thing is (also surprised the editor didn’t catch the plagiarism).

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I just don’t read him that way. Besides, Right and Left aren’t preemptive categories. There ought to be a room for independent thinking now and then.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    @27

    Why? If Clavos was the editor, you’ve got a doubly whammy, zing — guilt by association.

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Warren Beatty

    Re: comment #21, zingzing, did you even bother to click on and read the last link in my article? Or, for that matter, any link? I challenge ANYONE to offer a citation(s) of the lying of the links I’ve provided. Specifric examples, not your opinions. Your opinions are worth exactly what I paid for them.

    And it was Holder who said, “This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him. Both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.” Come on, somebody, say that statement isn’t invoking race.

    And it was Holder who dropped the Black Panther case.

    Re: comment #26, zz, you say, “Warren certainly does his best to appeal to racist sentiments.” Again, zz, cite specific examples. Just offering your opinion is (1) wearing a little thin, and (2) making you look rather foolish.

    Re: comment #28, roger, thank you! You make a good point. But the liberal Kool-Aid drinkers are (IMHO) not capable of independent thinking. (Does any liberal see how my opinion is clearly identified?)

    For all of you who are critical (especially zz in comment #27) of my article, the truth hurts doesen’t it?

  • Zingzing

    Yes, Warren, holder played the race card, but you know what? He was absolutely right. You used what he said to attack obama on racial grounds! Come on, man, think. As to your appeals to racist sentiment, you propped up this article on Obama and holder being racists who want to do things detrimental to white people, and you continue to use the old “Hussein” schtick. and while I haven’t read all the links (and you have no reason to demand that I do), it’s obvious that I read at least the one you plagiarized.

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Warren Beatty

    Re: comment #31, zz, (said sarcastically) WOW! You really put me in my place with that comment. (sarcasism off now) zz, comment #31 amounts to little more than you ranting and hoping you stumble upon a point!

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Warren –

    And it was Holder who said, “This is a way to get at the president because of the way I can be identified with him. Both due to the nature of our relationship and, you know, the fact that we’re both African-American.” Come on, somebody, say that statement isn’t invoking race.

    Yep! And when a girl cries out that somebody raped her, that means that SHE is the actual rapist because SHE is the one who pointed it out!

    And it was Holder who dropped the Black Panther case.

    And it’s was Warren who can’t get up the gumption to go double-check his “facts”:

    A Bush appointee to the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights denounced allegations by some pundits that the Justice Department is refusing to pursue a voting rights case against members of the New Black Panther Party because of race, and suggested that the charges being made by right-wing figures are politically motivated.

    Conservative broadcasters and websites have claimed that the Obama administration is dropping prosecution of New Black Panther activists who were videotaped outside a Philadelphia polling station on Election Day 2008, making intimidating remarks; one man was carrying a nightstick.

    Earlier this month former Justice Department lawyer and Republican activist J. Christian Adams testified to the commission that senior officials in the department are not applying voting rights laws in a race-neutral way, by refusing to press charges against African Americans on these issues.

    A recent Media Matters investigation has debunked charges that the Obama administration withdrew criminal charges against the Panthers (in fact, the Bush administration decided not to pursue criminal charges, with Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez testifying that the Bush Justice Department “determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes”; a civil lawsuit was filed in the last days of the Bush administration, and a judgment won by the Obama Justice Department in May 2009).

    Media Matters also found no evidence that any voters in the predominantly-black voting district had been prevented from voting.

    But don’t let any of this make you take off your I-hate-Obama-because-I-hate-Obama blinders, now….

  • Glenn Contrarian

    And Warren –

    Here’s what the “Black Panther” brouhaha was all about:

    A scholar whom President George W. Bush appointed as vice chairwoman of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Abigail Thernstrom has a reputation as a tough conservative critic of affirmative action and politically correct positions on race.

    But when it comes to the investigation that the Republican-dominated commission is now conducting into the Justice Department’s handling of an alleged incident of voter intimidation involving the New Black Panther Party – a controversy that has consumed conservative media in recent months – Thernstrom has made a dramatic break from her usual allies.

    “This doesn’t have to do with the Black Panthers; this has to do with their fantasies about how they could use this issue to topple the [Obama] administration,” said Thernstrom, who said members of the commission voiced their political aims “in the initial discussions” of the Panther case last year.

    My fellow conservatives on the commission had this wild notion they could bring Eric Holder down and really damage the president,” Thernstrom said in an interview with POLITICO.

    And YOU will sit back and assume that she’s absolutely WRONG. You know how I know you’ll assume this? Because it doesn’t matter that she’s in a position to know without doubt – all that matters is that she is saying something that’s against your preconceived notion, that your fellow conservatives and dittoheads were playing political games using race as an excuse, that you are plainly and obviously quite wrong.

    All that anyone has to do is to disagree with you, and you’ll automatically assume that they’re part of the enemy…because you can’t conceive, you cannot in your wildest dreams imagine that you might, just might be wrong about something political.

    That, Warren, is why I’m no longer a Republican or a racist or a conservative…because I can’t stand hypocrisy, and I will not allow myself to refuse to admit when I’m wrong.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/joseph-cotto/ Joseph Cotto

    Warren,

    Your articles do fascinate me. In them, you include many pertinent facts, but never fail to present them in the most outlandish and, at times, childish of manners. As I have asked in many past comments, your purpose is to persuade others to your opinion, correct?

    Seeing as the right-wing is already in your arena, and the far-left would never consider anything against its ideology, that leaves only the center to deal with. Do you honestly believe that moderate voters would seriously consider the content of your articles after you post a picture of Eric Holder in Marie Antoinette-style garb? The same goes for your ongoing “Barack Hussein Obama” bit.

    If you are merely preaching to the rightist choir, then this is fine. However, as I mentioned to you the week before last, RedState or Free Republic would probably be more receptive places for this. Would it be such a stretch to simply present your views in a less polarizing manner? Back during the Bush presidency, I did not like it when leftists used bombastic rhetoric against him, and find it no more favorable to see such nonsense brought against President Obama from the right.

    If we all truly want to see America get back on the right track, then the first thing we have to do is learn to get along with one another.

  • Clavos

    If we all truly want to see America get back on the right track…

    An admirable goal, Joseph, but a near impossibility in this deeply divided nation.

    Even to begin, it’s doubtful a consensus could be reached on a definition of the right (read: correct) track.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Joseph is the ultimate statesman, not to mention a gentleman to boot.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Hussein Dreadful

    Does any liberal see how my opinion is clearly identified?

    Oh, I see how it’s clearly identified all right.

    It’s just not your opinion.

  • http://cinemasentries.com El Bicho

    Warren’s frequent use of Dennis Miller’s sign-off to conclude his rants reveals a lack of creativity and intelligence so there’s no surprise to read charges of plagiarism.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/joseph-cotto/ Joseph Cotto

    Clavos,

    Very true. This illustrates just how far we have fallen as a nation.

    roger,

    Thank you. If we were having this discussion several decades ago, however, my views would be nothing out of the ordinary. Again, this shows just how much America’s public discourse has degenerated.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Hussein Dreadful

    @ 39:

    I don’t go that far, El B, but I do suspect there are go-to blogs and TV shows Warren uses to find out what opinions he should have.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    @41 That’s still going far.

    @40 Joseph, there was another layer of meaning as well. The loss of civility in discourse is not just a matter of manners; it indicates a real rift between classes.

  • Cannonshop

    #42 (wow…life the universe and everything..)

    Roger, your response to #40’s telling-because the ‘class’ divide isn’t necessarily where you think it is. It’s more along the lines of the Anointed, privelaged ones who discount the ability of dirty peasants like myself to take care of ourselves, or distinguish right from wrong. It’s the divide between those who live in a world of theoretical ideals, and those of us who live in the REAL world and keep the lights on and the food coming to our ‘betters’.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    @43

    I was enlarging on Joseph’s context. Was thinking in terms of the sentiment that’s being expressed by the “99 percent.”

  • Clavos

    Cannon IS the 99 percent, but he’s way smarter and much more articulate than most of us.

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Warren Beatty

    Re: comment #35, Joseph:

    You say, “…you include many pertinent facts, but never fail to present them in the most outlandish and, at times, childish of manners.” Specifics, Joseph, or I must regard your comment as your opinion.

    You say, “…your purpose is to persuade others to your opinion, correct?” No that is incorrect. My purpose is to provide facts, and to have a little fun while doing it. Most readers here have already made up their minds, and anything I say/present is quite unlikely th have any effect.

    You say, “…you post a picture of Eric Holder in Marie Antoinette-style garb?” Have you never heard of Johnny Carson? Have you never heard one of his most famous characters, “Carnac the Magnificent?”

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    @45

    But I don’t stand in the way of Cannon to do with his life what he will. I’m not an obstacle to him. If all he wants out of life is to get stinkin’ rich, it’s his business (as long he’s not part of the problem).

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    @43

    “…those who live in a world of theoretical ideals …”

    The liberals don’t live in that world, Cannon, not if you mean “sound theoretical ideals.” Liberalism is a discredit ideological system, four centuries old, but it’s longevity only proves its staying power. You, too, are a liberal in that sense, and so is Clavos, if both of you believe in “making it.”

    As to the modern, truncated version, it’s just vicarious living, IMO, a way of appeasing one’s conscience by being a do-gooder, a compensation.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    … discredited …”

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Warren –

    My purpose is to provide facts, and to have a little fun while doing it. Most readers here have already made up their minds, and anything I say/present is quite unlikely th have any effect.

    Hm. After I posted comments #33 and #34, I notice you didn’t say anything more about the Obama administration letting the Black Panthers get away with voter intimidation. So…what’s your stand on the issue now – are you going to stick by your guns because you’ve already made up your mind, or are you going to (gasp!) admit that maybe, just maybe you didn’t have all the facts at hand?

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Warren Beatty

    Re: comment #50, Glenn, even though it’s a waste of time and effort, you MAY find this source interesting. “Before a final judgment could be entered, however, our superiors ordered dismissal of the claims.” said J. Christian Adams who was a DOJ attorney, who was there.

    Further, this source is quite specific about what administration brought charges and what administration dismissed them. This site says, “Charges brought against three members of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense under the Bush administration have been dropped by the Obama Justice Department,”

    But the souces provided do not fit your conception of reality, so they must be lying.

  • Cannonshop

    #48 Roger, the reason Ideals are Ideals, is that they’re basically impossible to achieve. “Perfect Capitalism”, “Perfect Communism”, “perfect Justice” and “Perfect chairs” are all beyond the ability of the real world to achieve-but people keep trying.

    That makes them “Ideals”.

    In that sense, ALL Ideals are fundamentally discredited. (Even “Ideal Pragmatism”)

    which doesn’t mean people should not have them, just that questioning them, and questioning the means used to achieve them, might be a damn good idea once in a while, esp. when your ideals call for compelling others to act in ways against their own natures.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Too much distance separates us here for me to even try to cover the ground. Even you notion of “human nature” as though something fixed or written in stone. Only the parameters are fixed, but the spectrum from the ridiculous to the sublime is surely extensive enough to cover a whole gamut of possibilities.

    But as I said, you too are infected with liberal ideology in the original sense, and have bought Hobessian picture of man lock, stock and barrel.

    I’ll be covering that topic in my next presentation, so perhaps we can continue this discussion at that time.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Hussein Dreadful

    When did the BC Politics section become the University of Roger? Did I miss an email?

  • Cannonshop

    #53 Roger, I base my views on observation-what people DO, as opposed to what they say they believe in.

    VERY few manage to become the kind of folk they’d like to be. Most have to settle for TRYING to be the kind of folk they’d like to be, and honestly, the more Ideological someone is, the less tolerable they become as a person.

    People are fundmentally flawed-you either overcome those flaws, or you don’t, or you find some happy medium in accepting the flaws and make them advantages.

    That’s the neat thing about PEOPLE. Systems on the other hand, are also fundamentally flawed-but Systems, unlike People, don’t learn, don’t change without human intervention, and even the most perfect systems will still HAVE flaws that have to be coped with. “Utopia” itself means “No Place” for a reason.

  • Cannonshop

    #54 LOL Yes.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Warren #51 –

    If you had been careful to read the mediamatters investigation that I referenced, you would have found a MORE COMPLETE quote of Adams than the one you posted:

    Adams admits he did not talk to the attorneys he said made the decision not to pursue additional charges. During the interview, Kelly asked Adams, “So, what happened at the Department of Justice to get you to the point where you literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory?” Adams said: “[W]hat happened was — and it’s been — there’s been testimony — we were ordered to dismiss the case. We were told, ‘Drop the charges against the New Black Panther Party.’ ” Kelly asked, “Who told you that?” Adams responded, “Well, the testimony’s been that Steve Rosenbaum and Loretta King, two political officers at the department, ordered the dismissal of the case [emphasis added].” Kelly then asked Adams, “Did you, personally, speak with Mr. Rosenbaum and Ms. King about the dismissal of this case?” Adams responded: “No. Chris Coates and Bob Popper did. Two other attorneys.

    In other words, Adams is using second-hand information – also known as ‘hearsay’.

    Furthermore, from the same reference:

    [Bush Administration] Assistant Attorney General Thomas Perez explained that the Bush administration’s Justice Department “determined that the facts did not constitute a prosecutable violation of the criminal statutes” but did “file a civil action on January 7th, 2009.”

    How many times to I have to show you that it was the BUSH administration that decided not to file criminal charges? And that what WAS brought forward were civil (and NOT criminal) charges,and that the only suspect who did brandish a weapon was found liable?

    Your turn, Warren – and I will hold your feet to the fire on this one.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    @55

    You’re still beholden to a skewed, truncated model, and the very observations you speak of are themselves colored in terms of it.

    We don’t see with our eyes, Cannon, but with our language and concepts.

    But as I said, it’s too early to pick up this discussion with you. Let’s both take a rain check till later.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Cannonshop –

    VERY few manage to become the kind of folk they’d like to be. Most have to settle for TRYING to be the kind of folk they’d like to be, and honestly, the more Ideological someone is, the less tolerable they become as a person.

    People are fundmentally flawed-you either overcome those flaws, or you don’t, or you find some happy medium in accepting the flaws and make them advantages.

    That’s the neat thing about PEOPLE. Systems on the other hand, are also fundamentally flawed-but Systems, unlike People, don’t learn, don’t change without human intervention, and even the most perfect systems will still HAVE flaws that have to be coped with.

    I agree strongly with everything you said there…but I’d add a sentence in that having a system is usually better than having no system at all, and oftentimes the worst thing one can do is to get rid of the system altogether instead of keeping the good and fixing the bad.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/joseph-cotto/ Joseph Cotto

    roger,

    Indeed, the class divide is very telling. When humans are comfortable in either the social or financial senses, they tend to have a more agreeable temperament. This is, in my view, the chief reason why affluent individuals tend to be amongst the most moderate of voters.

    Warren,

    If I were to write about every example noted in your article, then I would have to paste the whole thing to this comment. However, generally speaking, your summarizing the racial sentiment held by Holder and inferencing how this impacts his job performance is, to me, factually sound. However, you use bombastic rhetoric to make your points, and constantly refer to the President as “Barack Hussein Obama”. This makes it obvious that you allow your political views to trump the quality of your writing, which is something that all political columnists must be wary of. As for Johnny Carson’s Carnac the Magnificent, yes, I have seen him on several occasions. He was an Eastern mystic who dressed in regal clothing, hence my Marie Antoinette remark. Most modern Americans, however, know nothing about Carnac and would probably interpret your picture as a faux royalist insult.

  • Igor

    52-Cannon: methinks you need to reread Plato, assuming you read Plato previously. Maybe not a valid assumption.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    #54

    Yes, Dreadful, you did miss something. The email was sent out, but you didn’t make the cut.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    @60

    Of course they would be, Joseph, since everything’s going their way. But what should we do with the rest?

  • Igor

    45-Clavos: IMO Cannon isn’t smarter than the average person, and IMO you confuse his extreme aggression and ironic glibness for articulation.

  • Clavos

    “extreme aggression and ironic glibness…” in words, which are what the pixels are depicting for all of us here, are part and parcel of articulation.

    And Cannon articulates better (and more cogently) than most (including you, Igor) on these threads.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You’re being unnecessarily feisty and on the defensive, Igor. You’ve got to give credit when credit is due, whether you agree with the man or not.

    Indeed, you must have an inflated opinion of “the average person.” If these threads are anywhere near a representative sample, you needn’t look any further. I’d pick my targets much more carefully if I were you.

  • opinion1

    I’ve listened to Eric Holder and I personally believe him to be a racist himself. Why hasn’t anyone pointed that out? And as for fast and furious…he is ultimately responsible and therefore should be demoted. Anyone else would have been fired. Its sad that he can do whatever he wants.

  • Igor

    67-opinion1: sounds like you’re proud of your nose for racism. What did you sniff out in Warrens original article?