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Hate Crimes Law Set to Pass: Justice Weeps

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Not having heard much about it in the last few months, I optimistically hoped that we had heard the last of the draconian “hate crimes” legislation which Democrats have been trying to pass for years. Now it appears that the bill is about to pass the Senate as an amendment attached to the Defense Appropriations bill, and President Obama spoke this weekend to the Human Rights Campaign expressing his eagerness to sign the bill into law, announcing: “I can announce that after more than a decade, this bill is set to pass and I will sign it into law.”

It troubles me at least a little to be on the same side as religious conservatives in opposing this bill and to be going against the majority of the American public who polls show supporting hate crimes legislation by a majority of as much as 88%, but when something is wrong it is wrong and it does not matter how many people support it or how wrongheaded some of those who oppose it are.

As I have written before, and still believe that no matter how well intentioned or how popular, no law which gives special privileges to selected classes of people and punishes individuals for their thoughts rather than their actions can ever be considered just. It is no more right to give a selected class of people preferential treatment under the law than it would be to take away the rights of a group of citizens for their race, beliefs or sexual preferences. To do so perverts and corrupts the law and undermines the Constitution.

Once this law passes, where do we draw the line? What is to stop the passage of myriad other well-intentioned laws which continue the pattern of setting one group above another and criminalizing thought? Will the next step be to outlaw certain political beliefs, to silence dissenting voices in the media and in the pulpit, or to punish anyone who is different just because the majority demands it?

We already have sufficient laws on the books to punish any crime against any individual on the basis of what has actually been done to him or her. Crimes are just as horrible for the victim regardless of what the mindset or motivation of the criminal is. Existing sentencing guidelines already take into account the severity or cruelty of the crime and special circumstances which can include almost anything.

Our legal system works because it assumes that all men are equal under the law and that you get the same justice if you’re rich or poor, man or woman, gay or straight. A victim is a victim and a criminal is a criminal and crimes are punished because they are crimes, not because of who committed them or who they targeted. To create special classes of victims or of criminals and set some people above others, declaring that their suffering is more important just because of who they are makes the law unequal and oppressive and is absolutely antithetical to the idea of a society based on the idea of universal equality.

If you want to right past wrongs and make society more just, then legalize gay marriage and put an end to “don’t ask, don’t tell.” President Obama seems reluctant to do these sensible things, yet he’s willing to shred the Constitution and violate the most basic principles of equality under the law by signing this abominable law. Another example of the tyranny which flows from the tainted spring of one-party rule.

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About Dave Nalle

Dave Nalle is Executive Director of the Texas Liberty Foundation, Chairman of the Center for Foreign and Defense Policy, South Central Regional Director for the Republican Liberty Caucus and an advisory board member at the Coalition to Reduce Spending. He was Texas State Director for the Gary Johnson Presidential campaign, an adviser to the Ted Cruz senatorial campaign, Communications Director for the Travis County Republican Party and National Chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus. He has also consulted on many political campaigns, specializing in messaging. Before focusing on political activism, he owned or was a partner in several businesses in the publishing industry and taught college-level history for 20 years.
  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    “It is no more right to give a selected class of people preferential treatment under the law than it would be to take away the rights of a group of citizens for their race, beliefs or sexual preferences.”

    Are you then opposed to the Americans with Disabilities Act and to the disability provisions of the Fair Housing Act?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dr. D., there’s a huge difference between an actual disability and race or gender or sexual preference.

    But yes, I believe that the ADA should only be mandatory for government offices and should not be imposed on businesses involuntarily. There’s a market for handicapped services, so let those who want to fill that need do so and don’t put the burden on everyone else.

    Dave

  • Doug Hunter

    I agree. There are adequate means in place to give people large sentences without special hate crimes provisions. The left, hence democrats, try to divide the population on race, class, gender, etc. and this hate crimes legislation is just one part of keeping the illusion going and the base motivated.

    For example here are some crime statistics for 2005:

    Loving Murders: 16692
    Hate Murders: 6

    Loving Forcible Rapes: 93,934
    Hate Forcible Rapes: 3

    Loving Ag. Assault: 862,947
    Hate Ag. Assualt: 1,062

    It’s silly that congress is concerning themselves with special legislation for what amounts to less than a tenth of a percent of major crimes. Even that tiny percentage and low numbers must be divided amongst many many categories of ‘hate’ so the animosity between any specifice group is much lower than you may be aware.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Dave –

    Your train of thought got derailed in your article.

    Will the next step be to outlaw certain political beliefs, to silence dissenting voices in the media and in the pulpit, or to punish anyone who is different just because the majority demands it?

    The outlawing of ‘hate crimes’ is NOT about ‘silencing dissenting voices’. Quite the OPPOSITE – and I think you know it!

    If someone tries to ‘silence’ another because of that other’s color/religion/sexual preference/political belief…THAT is a hate crime, sir. Identifying hate crimes and outlawing them isn’t ‘silencing’ opposition – it’s ENCOURAGING opposition! Because just as it’s a hate crime to silence my liberal views, it’s a hate crime to silence YOUR conservative views!

    And frankly, Dave, there’s been FAR more instances of persecution of liberals by conservatives than the other way around. Here’s another example of it. The attorneys general scandal is another example. I can provide more examples if you wish.

    The ‘hate crimes bill’ PROTECTS your right to be DIFFERENT, Dave! This bill weakens the ability of some to persecute others based on the DIFFERENCE of those others. You’re strong in history – which means you KNOW that most tyrannies thrived on persecuting others BECAUSE of the victims’ perceived difference – whether race (many examples), ethnic group (many examples), sexual preference (Nazi Germany), religion (many examples), political beliefs (Soviet Union), educational level (Cambodia), economic status (the French revolution comes to mind)…

    …do you see the common thread? ALL of these were seen as reasons to HATE – and that hate was manipulated, used as a path to obtain and preserve power! The hate crimes bill is meant to strengthen our protection AGAINST such hate…and against those who would manipulate that hate to their own ends.

    Your ‘RINO’ article was excellent. This article is 180-off the mark.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Sorry, Glenn, but your argument just makes no sense at all. A crime is a crime. It doesn’t matter what the motivation was. People should be judged by their actions, not their thoughts. And the point which you seem to have missed is that we start by criminalizing beliefs and thoughts in this context, the next step is criminalizing them even when they are not directly associated with a crime. This has happened in other countries, where merely speaking offensively has become a crime, and it’s the inevitable next step we’re looking at here.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    When a society criminalizes thought, it has taken the single most important step toward controlling it.

    And with it, freedom.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    … [if] we start by criminalizing beliefs and thoughts in this context, the next step is criminalizing them even when they are not directly associated with a crime. This has happened in other countries, where merely speaking offensively has become a crime, and it’s the inevitable next step we’re looking at here.

    Dave hammers the nail on the head.

    In Israel, “incitement” is a crime. That wouldn’t be too bothersome – except for the way it is enforced. Jews who say anything alluding to Arab terrorists or that “Kahane was right” are hauled in for incitement. Arabs – any Arabs – can say what they damn please, calling upon Allah to murder us off, etc., and NOTHING happens to them.

    Incitement laws will make internal conflict more likely by shutting off the valve that pissed off people have now. They have here.

    When a society criminalizes thought, it has taken the single most important step toward controlling it. And with it, freedom. Quoted for truth.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    “When a crime is committed, it doesn’t matter what the motivation was.”

    So there’s no such thing as justifiable murder in self-defense? That’s MOTIVATION, Dave.

    Yes, motivation DOES matter – unless you want to turn your back on one of the main principles of American law enforcement for the past century or two.

    How is this so? In most cases, before someone can be considered even just a suspect, the police have to show three things: means, opportunity, and MOTIVE.

    So is a gang of five young men beating up on a kid to rob him really different from them beating him up because he’s a Jew or black or gay?

    ABSOLUTELY. Because a victim of robbery normally doesn’t take his misfortune out on others…but one who is a victim of racial hatred DOES carry it with him for the rest of his life – and he’s likely to take it out on others of the same race that persecuted him (innocent or not), and the vicious circle begins.

    Yeah, there IS a difference. Want to see the vicious circle at work? Ask Ruvy why he wants to nuke Tehran.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Glenn,

    As much as i would like to see hate-crime legislation passed in the United States, I’m realistic to understand that it will be enforced selctively. The Wahhabi ass-kissing at the top of your government insures that Jews will be fucked over in your country with such federal legislation and the Wahhabi will get a free pass.

    As I’ve told you elsewhere your (not yours personally) goodwill is worthless. American laws enforcement cannot be trusted, and American prosecutors cannot be trusted because your politicians are evil bastards in service to people who are even more evil.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Hate crime legislation is nothing more than pandering to a specific group of people. Hate is hate. Be it racial, religious or sexual intolerance, it still amounts to hate, period. If someone commits an act of violence motivated by ignorance and hate, then impose a reciprocal punishment — the death penalty.

    I’m unhappy with Obama’s speech at the HRC dinner and stand strong with those like Dan Savage who say enough is enough. It’s time for Obama to stop with words and ACT. Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is a disaster and regardless of what military brass may feel, the Commander in Chief can put an end to this entire debate with a stroke of a pen. DoMA is another one. I continue to maintain that any marriage solemnized by a religious official cannot be recognized by civil authorities as legitimate. Therefore all straight church-married couples cannot be accorded the “privileges and benefits” of marriage under the Constitution.

    And speaking of the death penalty, will Governor Rick Perry at least be charged with involuntary manslaughter for the execution of Cameron Todd Willingham? If an investigation reveals a cover up or failure to act by any member of the Perry Administration, heads must roll.

  • Baronius

    Dave – I remember your earlier article on this topic. You completely changed my mind about hate crime law. Again, I tip my hat to you.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Silas, a lot of people were unhappy with Obama’s HRC speech. I don’t know if you follow the Log Cabbin blogs, but they were pretty pissed that he didn’t take a stand on don’t ask don’t tell at the very least. He made promises and he’s not following through on them, and the hate crimes bill isn’t fooling anyone who matters.

    Not to follow you too far off topic, but what’s the problem with the Willingham case? I’ve never heard of it and I’m here in Texas and read the papers from time to time.

    Dave

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Jews will be fucked over in your country with such federal legislation and the Wahhabi will get a free pass.

    We’re not exactly wading knee-deep in Wahhabis over here, you know, Ruvy. Yet another reflection in the extremely distorted lens your mondoscope there in Samaria is fitted with.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    Perhaps you weren’t aware of the prejudice to which Arabs – and anyone who looked like Arabs – were subjected to here just after 9/11. There were Sikhs murdered just because they looked Arabic – i.e. the turban.

  • http://jetssciencepage.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Hate Crime-Here’s a video of a hate crime from last weekend click here

  • Clavos

    If two thugs go around town beating up straight white businessmen, is that a hate crime?

    What if they go to playgrounds and beat 5 year olds of both sexes and all races? Hate crime?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Clav:

    1. If they’re specifically singling out straight white businessmen because they think all straight white businessmen should go back where they came from, the fucking perverts, then yes.
    2. No, and I think the reason why not should be blindingly obvious to everyone.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Was the businessman Jewish, were the little kids hispanic and couldn’t speak english? Were the thugs telling their victim that he was being beaten because of a specific difference from what they were?

    WHY are you trying to dilute the ABSOLUTE FACT that the beating in that video is a hate crime?

    Any beathing where someone is yelling epitaths against a different group than the thugs giving the beating are is a hate crime.

    Is your soul so cold Clavos that you can’t admit that?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    When black were being lynched just for being black they needed help from hate crimes too.

    Now gays need it, it so intensely hurts me that someone I respect can’t see that… or worse but won’t admit it because of political or religious reasons.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    @ #2: Dave, I have to admit that was a bit of a ‘gotcha’ question. I don’t – and I don’t think that any reasonable thinking person would – consider special accommodations for disabled people to be giving them ‘preferential treatment’.

    Unfortunately, you don’t appear to be a reasonable thinking person. “There’s a market for handicapped services, so let those who want to fill that need do so and don’t put the burden on everyone else.” Dear me. With attitudes like that, no wonder segregation and apartheid lingered for so long…

  • Clavos

    I disagree with you on #1, Doc. Even under the circumstances you describe, it’s no more of a hate crime than beating them because it’s fun, or because they want to intimidate them to eliminate competition.

    Assault is assault.

    As to #2, I’m afraid I’m blind. Are they not attacking a specific group of humans for one of their characteristics, age?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    What Dave and Clavos are implying is that I deserve to beaten in the street because I’m gay with no recourse or help from the law.

  • Clavos

    Is your soul so cold Clavos that you can’t admit that?

    If I had a soul, Jet, yes it would be.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    It all comes down to your conviction that homosexuality is a “Choice”. If we choose to be gay we deserve to have the hell beaten out of us.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Are they not attacking a specific group of humans for one of their characteristics, age?

    Are they? You didn’t specify. Or are they attacking them because they’re small and can’t fight back?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    The link in comment #15 speakes for itself.

    Clavos I like and respect you, but I don’t understand your attitude on this subject.

  • Clavos

    What Dave and Clavos are implying is that I deserve to beaten in the street because I’m gay with no recourse or help from the law.

    No, what I’m saying is that you don’t deserve any MORE protection from the law than I do if I’m beaten for my wallet.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    So lynching a black man in the south just because he’s black or burning a jew in germany because he’s a jew is no more of a crime than stealing someone’s wallet?

    That man was beaten because he was gay and if you watch the video again, you’ll note that they gave him back his dropped wallet almost to emphysize he wasn’t attacked for his wallet but because in their eyes he was just a faggot.

    Stealing someone’s wallet DOES NOT put a target on the back of everyone who carries a wallet, but beating up a fag and getting a slap on the wrist for it says it’s okay to beat all of them up. Just like a public lynching in the south without punnishment meant it was okay to string up all niggers a white man didn’t like… and for no other reason.

  • Clavos

    Are they? You didn’t specify. Or are they attacking them because they’re small and can’t fight back?

    Either way, Doc. The end result to the kids is the same.

    Instead of inventing new categories of laws which open up new avenues of governmental control, let’s vigorously enforce the laws already in effect to the maximum permitted. If the present maximum isn’t enough, jack it up.

  • Clavos

    It’s the beating, Jet, that counts, not the reason for it.

    And that’s already against the law.

    Are you advocating that if two thugs beat me up for my wallet they shouldn’t be punished as much as two thugs beating you up for being gay? How about we severely punish ALL thugs who beat up anyone for any reason, instead?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Right-jack it up, that’s how a first grader almost wound up in a juvenile home a couple of days ago for bringing a camping knife with him to school for show and tell because he wanted to show off the spoon, fork and corkscrew.

    They made all weapons in school the same kind of crime no matter who does it, and the kid almost suffered the consequences until he was 18-years old.

    Targeting someone simply because they’re gay for a life threatening beating is a little more serious than someone getting into a bar fight or hitting someone because they insulted a redneck’s wife.

  • Clavos

    They made all weapons in school the same kind of crime no matter who does it, and the kid almost suffered the consequences until he was 18-years old.

    Actually, the kid was busted because the school authorities established a policy, not a law, to have “zero tolerance” for bringing weapons to school — exactly the kind of problem that arises when you allow non professionals like school principals to have too much power. Reasonable enforcement of the law is exactly why we have courts and police.

    Targeting someone simply because they’re gay for a life threatening beating is a little more serious than someone getting into a bar fight or hitting someone because they insulted a redneck’s wife.

    And that’s exactly why the law already distinguishes as to severity of the assault, providing for both “assault” and “aggravated assault;” the courts can and do punish aggravated assault more severely than they punish two drunks duking it out in a bar.

  • zingzing

    dave: “A crime is a crime. It doesn’t matter what the motivation was. People should be judged by their actions, not their thoughts.”

    so raping an 8 year old is no worse than raping a 30 year old? i can agree that rape is rape, but to say that certain groups shouldn’t be protected based on the differences in those groups doesn’t hold licker any more than an 18 year old’s bladder.

    if someone came up and beat your ass just because you’re a middle-aged white conservative, and they let you know that’s exactly why they’re beating your ass, you’d be rightfully pissed. try and deny it, but if you were to be beaten because of your race, or your beliefs, you’d change your tune so fast, your underwear would change color. but as a middle-aged white conservative, you don’t have to deal with that. so you won’t even think of the possibility. (of course, if the liberal fascists, as you declare, take over, you’ll crow about it all fucking day long. but remember, “a crime’s a crime,” as you say.)

    i know you can see the general point against such legislation. they’re extra punishment, nothing more, and very hard to prove. so unless you plan on beating up some democrats or some gay folk just because of their beliefs/lifestyle/etc, you have nothing to worry about. unless you’re a terrorist. then you hate our freedom.

    and doug, “loving forcible rape” is my favorite new band name.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    The difference that you keep trying to deflect attention away from is that in some parts of American Society, it’s okay to beat the hell out of a faggot and not worry about the consequences because most of their peer group would cheer them on instead of reporting them to the police.

    In that same society it is NOT acceptable to beat the hell out of Clavos for his wallet.

    So he’s protected, why the hell should he care about anyone else… and it’s obvious that he doesn’t.

  • Irene Wagner

    People don’t seem to mind that the courts make a distinction between Premeditated Murder and Common or Garden Variety Murder. Assigning heavier penalties for premeditating has everything to do with punishing a person, not so much for the WAY he thinks, as for thinking long and hard about doing a bad thing before doing it.

    I’m the last person who wants to give the government power to punish me for what I think. I completely understand your concerns, Clavos and Dave.

    But I’m wondering why the Hate Crimes idea can’t be just a broadening of the idea of Premeditated Murder to include Premeditated Assault. Could the legislation have been worded differently perhaps?

    Zing. Banned name.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Your answer is in #34 Irene

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    The ku kux klan preaches that it’s perfectly acceptable DESPITE THE LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS to beat maim and even kill jews, niggers and fags.

    special laws had to be passed aimed at them specifically in order to stop the killings etc.

    why?

    Because in their neck of the woods and in their society it was perfectly acceptable, indeed desirable to stand in your front yard and watch them weed out the unwanted trash of their society.

    Well like it or not a similar part of society thinks the same way about gays and the only way to disuade them is to slap an extra penalty on their heads for doing it UNTIL it’s no longer generally thought acceptable in some parts of our society to do so.

    The laws aren’t written to protect those who already have rights, it’s to protect those who don’t have equal protection under the law.

  • Irene Wagner

    Jet. I’m actually fighting AGAINST Clavos who is BC’s most notorious homophobe, as we all know. I’m on your side bud.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    granted and thanks. It’s like arguing with a bridk wall-I’m going to bed and establish an alibi

  • Irene Wagner

    No really Jet, read it again. We’re all trying to figure out what’s fair here. People who were your friends before are still your friends. Put on some dang motown and chill-ax. It’s easy for me to say, don’t take it personally, I know…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    We’re not exactly wading knee-deep in Wahhabis over here, you know, Ruvy.

    So much for what you know, DD. The Wahhabi fund nearly every madrasssa in the world outside of India, Indonesia and Central Asia. So the majority of Moslems who study in madrassas in the states are exposed to Wahhabi influence. I don’t hawve the stats for central California – but you could look that up if it interested you.

  • Irene Wagner

    Hoid it thru the grapevine…just about to loooose my mind honey honey not much longer woulja be my babeee… OK Jet, I’m going to bed too. Take care.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    The ku kux klan preaches that it’s perfectly acceptable DESPITE THE LAWS THAT ARE ON THE BOOKS to beat maim and even kill jews, niggers and fags.

    I know where you are coming from, Jet. The solution is for blacks, Jews and gays to get together, arm and train well – and massacre about 100 or 200 of the klansfuckers. The lesson the klansfuckers need to be taught is that they are not the only ones willing to go OUTSIDE of the bounds of the law, and that they can DIE for CARRYING OUT acts of hatred.

    The assholes are not going to stop hating you or me, Jet. But dead assholes don’t kill. And the other asssholes will take note and take measure. Since most of the klansfuckers are “Christians”, they will want to live rather than die. Therefore, they will think long and hard before seeking vengeance.

    In other words, Jet, your solution comes not from hate legislation but from direct action taken in your own hands to kill and maim those who would kill and maim you. Action taken OUTSIDE OF THE LAW so those who would kill and maim you understand clearly that going outside of the law themselves can be the death of them.

    He who raises his hand to bless you, bless him first; he who raises his hand to kill you, kill him first. A free lesson in Talmud, courtesy of Rav Meir Kahane, z”l, hy”d.

  • zingzing

    ahh, ruvy. same old fucked up answer to the same old fucked up question that has been answered that way throughout history. that’s the way we do it… your “lesson” is well-ingrained and totally unnecessary. might as well tell us to cut our hair should it get too long.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Isn’t it ironic that the same group of people that profess Liberty can’t tolerate anyone else’s ?

    Jet should be free to live in a society that respects him, no matter what his sexual orientation, beliefs or ethnicity are.

    Of course this would be a totally different article if Dave was gay…

  • Clavos

    The difference that you keep trying to deflect attention away from is that in some parts of American Society, it’s okay to beat the hell out of a faggot and not worry about the consequences because most of their peer group would cheer them on instead of reporting them to the police.

    …And passing hate crimes legislation won’t change that.

  • STM

    Dave, Ruvy’s on your side on this one. You’ve scored.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    So lynching a black man in the south just because he’s black or burning a jew in germany because he’s a jew is no more of a crime than stealing someone’s wallet?

    No, Jet. Lynching a black man is no worse than burning a jew or blowing up an irish man and stealing a gay man’s wallet is no worse than stealing a straight man’s wallet. The crimes are the same and the punishment should be the same.

    If the thief doesn’t beat the straight man whose wallet he steals, but goes farther and beats the gay man who’s wallet he steals then he is liable for an additional criminal charge for the additional violence regardless of his motivation.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    The difference that you keep trying to deflect attention away from is that in some parts of American Society, it’s okay to beat the hell out of a faggot and not worry about the consequences because most of their peer group would cheer them on instead of reporting them to the police.

    Then the problem is with those segments of society for not enforcing the existing law. If they won’t enforce the existing law, why do you think they will enforce a hate crimes law? If the criminal isn’t even charged for the crime he’s not going to be charged for the hate crime.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    But I’m wondering why the Hate Crimes idea can’t be just a broadening of the idea of Premeditated Murder to include Premeditated Assault. Could the legislation have been worded differently perhaps?

    In many states, including Texas, they already have sentencing guidelines for “special circumstances” where a crime is particularly heinous, and that can include the motivation for the crime or other actions associated with it at the discretion of the jury and judge. That seems inherently more fair.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Of course this would be a totally different article if Dave was gay…

    No, it really wouldn’t, Jeannie. People who actually have principles don’t change them based on who they want to have sex with.

    Dave

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    #51 ?????

    Are you saying Gay people lack principles Dave?

    And what a narrow mind to think being Gay is just having Sex…

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    #51
    It’s also snowing outside my window right now..:(

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Jeannie, as I made pretty clear in the article, I’m really only interested in the empirical aspect of things. Functionally you’re only gay if you have sex with the same sex. But basically I don’t care and no one else should either.

    Dave

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Dave #54 really?
    Functionally you’re only gay if you have sex with the same sex.

    It’s a BLIZZARD!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Well Dave, I have to leave for now..but I’ll be back..:)

  • Clavos

    Are you saying Gay people lack principles Dave?

    Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired, Jeannie, because that’s not at all what Dave said.

    What he said was that HE would be opposed to hate crimes legislation even if he were gay. Not surprisingly, many conservative gays are, in fact opposed to the concept.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Clavos, #57
    Try reading it again buddy.
    #51
    People who actually have principles don’t change them based on who they want to have sex with.

    People who actually have principles?

    How dare either of you profess that Gay people lack principles.

    I would take one Barny Frank (now there is a man with principles)for a thousand of the greedy unprincipled Republican politicians steeling our resources and future right now by caving in to the (Middle-Man Insures) who are buying our country with corrupt cash and LIES!

    I read Dave’s insulting comment and comprehended correctly….

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    ahh, ruvy. same old fucked up answer to the same old fucked up question that has been answered that way throughout history

    zing,

    You do not have an answer for Jet. I do. Maybe that’s because I actually know what it feels like to be attacked because I’m a Jew – something you would not know. So, in my gut, I can empathize with Jet, even though I am not of his orientation, and I generally do not agree with his politics.

    Legislation is for those who believe in obeying the law – vigilante actions are for those who don’t – like the klansfuckers. It really is that simple….

    That’s why I believe in unconcealed carrying of weapons, the general practice here in Israel. The person who would kill me at least knows that I have a weapon, and know how to use it. If he wants to break the law and attempt to murder me, he at least knows HE CAN DIE in the attempt. That little bit of knowledge can save lives.

  • Clavos

    How dare either of you profess that Gay people lack principles.

    Sorry, Jeannie, but you’re still imputing far more than was intended in Dave’s comment. It does NOT imply that gays are without principles.

    You’re reading a meaning into it that is not there.

    Show us where I said that gays lack principles.

  • Clavos

    Legislation is for those who believe in obeying the law – vigilante actions are for those who don’t – like the klansfuckers. It really is that simple…

    Quoted for Truth.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Now. Dave… Clavos, a man having sex with a man no more makes him homosexual than my having sex (which I have) with a woman would make me straight.

    See that’s why your arguments and attitudes are so screwed up-you STILL maintain that homosexuality is a choice AND IT ISN’T.

    What makes me gay is which sex my hormones react to. I can see a woman and think she’s sexy, but my body doesn’t react to her, I see a hunk and my hormones react.

    The sensless pity in this society is that HOMOSEXUAL men are marrying and having sex with women and fathering children in a loveless marraige that’s doomed to break up, hurting the used woman and his loving children…

    All because society won’t accept him/me for what he is.

    For the 7,596th time, being gay is biological-NOT a choice.

    IN THIS SOCIETY WHO THE FUCK WOULD CHOOSE to be gay??????????

    The man in the video on comment 15 was targeted specifically because he was gay-THEY GAVE HIM BACK his wallet.

  • Clavos

    See that’s why your arguments and attitudes are so screwed up-you STILL maintain that homosexuality is a choice AND IT ISN’T.

    Wrong, Jet. I have NEVER said that.

    I believe gays are born gay, it’s not a learned trait. I’ve know a couple of gay boys since they were born, and both exhibited gay sexual preferences from the moment they became sexual, they were never interested in girls.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Okay, then personally that’s how you feel, but politically you maintain it’s a choice.

  • Baronius

    Jeannie, I just wrote up an analysis of your and my interpretations of comment #51. Then I deleted it. It’s obvious that Dave is saying that principles don’t change according to sexual preference. I think if you read it again, without feeling like Dave, Clavos, and I are ganging up on you, you’ll see that.

  • Clavos

    Okay, then personally that’s how you feel, but politically you maintain it’s a choice.

    Oh, bullshit, Jet. That remark makes no sense at all!

  • Baronius

    Jet, are you saying that society has to increase the punishment for gay-bashing in order to change people’s hearts about it?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    It’s a pity we can’t post photos in the comments sections because this is how I picture both of you…

    Click here

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “You do not have an answer for Jet. I do. Maybe that’s because I actually know what it feels like to be attacked because I’m a Jew – something you would not know. So, in my gut, I can empathize with Jet, even though I am not of his orientation…”

    no, i don’t know what it’s like to be attacked because i’m a jew. and i can empathize with jet as much as you can. what do you know about my life? do you know i’ve never been attacked for who i am or what i believe? do you even know my heritage? do you know everything i believe? here’s a hint: i have been attacked for my beliefs. and you would, if you knew the story, probably be pretty proud of me. but you don’t know the story. you just make up your own.

    and you don’t HAVE to answer for jet either. he can answer for himself. and going out an massacring people, i’d bet, isn’t the first thing that would leap to his mind. he can say different if he likes. but i wasn’t answering for jet at all. i was responding to you. and i think that going out an willy-nilly killing people is the wrong answer.

    like it or not, they have the right to think the way they do. if you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this or that klan member is guilty and deserves punishment, put them in jail. what you suggest is just killing everyone with a hood on. you’re no better than they are at that point, and would deserve the same fate (or at least to rot in jail for a really, really long time).

    you are exactly what you hate, ruvy. that you don’t realize that is the sorta funny thing.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Baronius, Please read the comment again.

    Dave typed these words:

    People who actually have principles don’t change them based on who they want to have sex with.

    People who actually have principles?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Tell me the following is wrong guys!!!

    100 YEARS after blacks were CONSTITUTIONALLY declared free and equal to all Americans. they

    …were forced to eat and drink separately from whites

    …they had trouble registering to vote

    …they were discriminated against for work

    100 years later and JUST 45 years ago, even though they were protected by existing laws they were still being singled out for lynching, cross burnings and having their houses burnt down for moving into the wrong neighborhoods.

    100 years later after the AMERICAN CONSTITUTION said they were equal to whites both houses of Congress had to pass special legislation guaranteeing them rights that THE CONSTITUTION SAID THEY ALREADY HAD.

    sound familiar Clavos?

    The weren’t “SPECIAL RIGHTS” they were rights that whites refused to honor, so additional protection was needed…

    …just like gays need it now.

    argue that

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “Legislation is for those who believe in obeying the law – vigilante actions are for those who don’t – like the klansfuckers.”

    and you. and then the “klansfuckers” would come back and kill you, maybe your family as well. then your extended family would kill some more klan members (dicks?), then the klan would wipe out your… blah blah blah.

    vigilante actions are just dumb. what are you, a comic book hero? you think this is the movies?

  • zingzing

    jeannie, much as it would please me if dave were bad all over, he’s no homophobe. read it again. he’s saying that if you believe in a certain thing on principle, it doesn’t matter if you’re gay or straight, you’ll stick to your principles. he’s not saying gay people don’t have principles.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Jet #71,

    Great response!

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Let’s hope that’s not the only reply to it. Unfortunately if it makes sense ignore it is the SOP around here.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Zing #73,

    Read it again…People who actually have principles don’t change them based on who they want to have sex with.

    So, who is it that doesn’t actually have any principles?

    So Dave actually has principles, but the rest of us are faking it..ehh

    I read this loud and clear:)

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Jeannie, Dave isn’t homophobic. As a matter of fact he’s so fair-minded politically he recruited me as a BC writer.

    Even though he hasn’t responded to 71

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Jeanie, click my name and check out my political page complete with news tickers!

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Jet #77

    I am not saying that Dave is homophobic, I am saying he’s wrong…now, about your page!

    I’ve seen it… 😉

  • zingzing

    jeannie: “So, who is it that doesn’t actually have any principles?”

    people who don’t have principles. nothing more, nothing less.

    “So Dave actually has principles, but the rest of us are faking it..ehh”

    that isn’t what he said. he just said he wouldn’t change his mind on the subject even if he was gay. (i’m not sure that’s true… but meh.) he isn’t saying you (or gay people) lack principles.

    “I read this loud and clear:)”

    well, you’re reading something that isn’t quite there.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    Jet,
    Very colorful and LIBERAL. I like it!

  • zingzing

    actually, i’d have to say that there aren’t many “principles” i’d stick to based on “principle.” context is very important to any individual event, so to stick to “principle” all of the time can get pretty ludicrous.

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ Jeannie Danna

    OK Zing, I’m going now, but tonight I’ll come back and read what’s not there!

    HA HA :)

  • zingzing

    you do that…

  • Clavos

    argue that

    No need to, Jet, you made my argument for me. Gays are just as protected by those laws as blacks are, ergo no need for new ones.

    BTW, my objection is to enacting any new laws willy-nilly. For far too long, we have done just that, with the result that we have too many laws already, many of which are not enforced properly. As a general principle, I think better, more vigorous enforcement of existing laws is preferable to passing even more laws.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    zing,

    I know the history of the city I was raised in a bit better than you. There was a time when the Jewish Veterans of Foreign Wars were real men. Immediately before the outbreak of WWII, when Yorkville in Manhattan was filled with Nazis, the JVFA used to go out to play “baseball” – with the heads of the Nazis. They took the blond bastards and turned their hair red – blood red. And the fuckers deserved it – they were the fifth column in the USA openly supporting the Nazis and the murder of all the Jews in Europe. That is what the JVFA should be doing to the Arabs who support the murder of Jews today. But that was the thirties and forties. If the Ameerican government isn’t willing to get rid of the garbage, Jews should. But the “good old days” are gone – so the Wahhabi trash will remain – and Jews in America will die as a result.

    Vigilante actions are designed to deal with people whose attitudes are that they are above the law – and whose actions are below the basic bar of civilization. Some examples: lynching blacks from trees, dragging gay men from a truck, and beating them to death – fun stuff for the klansfucker types.

    ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION, JET?

    The people who regard themselves as so far above the law that they don’t give a shit if they kill you, WILL NOT BE DETERRED BY SOME DAMNED LAW!!! THEY WILL BE DETERRED BY BEING KILLED OFF!

    Man! I don’t get what your problem is, zing! You do not reason with a rabid dog – you kill it. And the klansfuckers and their ilk are rabid dogs in your society.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    WRONG Clavos-Gays are just as protected now as Blacks were before their ADDITIONAL 1960s Civil Rights were enacted… at which time congress had to put into law ADDITIONAL protections for their rights and against crimes that (by what you’re saying) they ALREADY had under the constitution.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Well Ruvy, I’ll just go out to the nearest gun show and buy an unregistered machinegun-thanks for the suggestion.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “I know the history of the city I was raised in a bit better than you.”

    but do you understand the ramifications of your actions? apparently not. and, if you know (at least some part of) the history of the city better than i do, i know the current reality better than you.

    “Man! I don’t get what your problem is, zing! You do not reason with a rabid dog – you kill it. And the klansfuckers and their ilk are rabid dogs in your society.”

    my “problem” is that i don’t think i’m worthy of judging who lives and who dies. neither are they, and neither are you. if you go and kill someone, that’s on you. i ain’t going to do it. if someone is guilty, put them in jail. put all the guilty ones in jail. but don’t kill someone for their beliefs (isn’t that what we’re talking about here?) without them acting on those beliefs in a way that is directly detrimental to you.

    if a klan member (since when is the kkk really back anyway?) kills a black man just because he is black, he should be punished for killing as well as punished for spreading hatred. but just because a klan member hates black people doesn’t mean you have a right to kill him.

    if you’re sure a klan member is going to kill you just because of who you are, you can kill that klan member. it’s called self-defense. but if you kill a klan member just because he’s a klan member, then you’re worse than that klan member. might as well be one.

  • Baronius

    Jet, I think your comparison between the legislation of the 1960’s and hate crimes law is apt. Those civil rights laws are a mixture of good and bad ideas. Then as now, the urge to do something was stronger than the sensibility to write clear, prudent law.

    For example, we never had a national debate about literacy tests for voting. They were being misused, and so they were abolished. But we’ve never talked out the pros and cons of their nondiscriminatory use. Another example is the aggressive expansion of the Commerce Clause. Was that such a good idea in retrospect?

    Additionally, the authors of the 1964 Act maintained that it would never be used to enforce quotas. Either they were being deceptive, or they wrote the law poorly.

  • Baronius

    Zing, that last paragraph is gold.

  • zingzing

    baronius, i’m not sure if you’re kidding or if we actually agree on something…

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Jet, I didn’t respond to #71 because the comparison is ridiculous.

    And please stop using the lame “being gay is biological argument” — it’s a cop-out. You should have the same rights whether you’re gay by biology or by choice. Sexual orientation should not be a factor in anything regardless of its origin.

    Dave

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Well Zing with a little editing we have: if you’re sure a fag basher is going to beat and possibly kill you just because of who you are, you can kill that fag basher. it’s called self-defense. but if you kill a fag basher just because he’s a fag basher, then you’re worse than that fag basher. and you might as well be fagbasher-basher yourself.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Dave the point was that the majority of those against gay rights legislation view homosexuality as a choice and should punish it as a crime like up until recently they did in Georgia and other southern states, just as you should be punnished if you choose to steal Clavos’ wallet or you choose to rape a little boy or you choose to steal from your workplace.

    all are crimes under the law and here comes the argument “well next they’ll be demanding the right to have sex with animals and then where will it end?”

  • zingzing

    yeah, well, jet, it’s still true. just because someone hates gay people doesn’t give you the right to kill them. (otherwise, you’d have to kill a whole lot of people…)

    killing someone because of what they believe is what we’re trying to stop, not promote.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Cute, by the way, how you ignored the point in #71 and focused on a side issue.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Dave you didn’t respont to 71 because you didn’t read it, there’s not a single reference to biology vs choice in the entire comment… had you read it, you’d know that.

    your mask is slipping

  • Baronius

    Zing, we agree.

    Jet, no one’s made the jump to the biology/choice argument, and it’s probably not worthwhile to do so anyway.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Condense the argument down to the point kids, Clavos does not walk down the street in fear for his life because he carries a wallet.

    I on the other hand fear having the hell beaten out of me for being gay, and once was after coming out of a gay bar with a friend who was not only beaten, but pushed out in front of a cab and hit, just because of the establishment we were coming out of.

    The guy in this video can tell you that

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Did you read 71 Baronius?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    The details from the video in #100 are from the associated press not some slanted gay site and that’s the NYC police commisioner speaking

  • Clavos

    Jet,

    Actually the civil rights laws of the 60s protect you every bit as much as they protect blacks; they even include a phrase regarding “sexual orientation.”

    The point is, passing another law, even if the penalty for gay bashing becomes death, is not going to relieve you of the fear, because the law will not deter those who are bent on gay bashing, any more than the law against first degree murder and the death penalty for that offense do — people still get murdered, by the dozens, daily, and assholes will continue to bash gays, even after the law is passed, which it will be despite my objections.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    There is no place in the 60s Civil Rights legislation that mentions “sexual orientation” and you know it.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jet,

    On the one hand, you complain about violence against gays. On the other hand, you refuse to do anything against it that has some legal imprimatur. Among Jews, we call that argument, “good Jewish boys don’t fight”. And the good Jewish boys who don’t fight get called cowards – or fags – by the goyisher bastards who beat the shit out them. Jet, nobody calls me a coward to my face – or a fag – and gets away with it without a fight. I may lose that fight and walk away hurt – but I will fight. No SOB will stain my honor. And if I have to I will kill.

    My own attitude was only amplified and validated by what I learned in the Jewish Defense League. To be blunt with you, if death is what you face, death is what you deal out. If you are unable to deal out death (which is a pretty accurate description of your case), join a gang or organize a gang that will. Gays face real threats and an relying on cops to protect your rights, whatever they are, is like expecting a goy to protect mine – a joke. And the bottom line with ALL law is that is only as good as its enforcement.

    Contemplate the fate of a gentleman named Milk before you answer (or refuse to answer), Jet. I didn’t forget the massacre in San Francisco. The people who killed Harvey Milk were out to kill people just like you.

    Do I have to remind you what the Gay Pride parade in New York commemorates? It wasn’t about prancing around and giving flowers to the cops, Jet, in case you forgot. It was about answering thuggery with thuggery.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    This video has nothing to do with bashing, this child was murdered and I defy you to watch it all the way through

    Click here

    It is important, despite how you feel about Ellen watch it and see what our children are being taught at a young age.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Ronnie Paris Jr. thought his 3-year-old son, Ronnie Paris, was “soft” and told a friend that he “didn’t want him to be a sissy.” The boy’s aunt testified that his father “was concerned that the child might be gay.” Ronnie Paris Jr. was determined to change that. So he regularly boxed with the child in an effort to toughen him up, slapping him in the head until he cried.

    He was going to beat the gay out of him, even if it killed the boy. And in this case, the prosecutor maintains that it did.

    Remember this jerk was beating a three year old child

  • Clavos

    Jet #104:

    You are partially correct, and I stand corrected: there is no Federal protected class defined as “sexual orientation, although a number of states have passed such statutes.

    I said “partially correct” because I did not know that and you wrote “and you know it” in your comment.

  • Baronius

    Jet, I read 71. My 90 was a reply to it.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Baronius, I missed that because I forgot to “refresh” the page after posting a comment so it didn’t appear.

    kudos

  • http://tciwatch.com Chris Burke

    Is it just me? I thought with Obama in office, hate messages in the US would subside. I feel like I’m hearing more about prejudice and races more than ever. Everyone is accused of being racist these days. I would like all nations to move closer to the center where we are all one color. The US is a land to live and let live, neh? Bringing a law will reinforce that there is a problem to be solved. Do americans believe that there is a problem with race? In the UK, black and white people are indistinguishable. It’s not an insult to be black and we all sound and act the same. In america there seems to be a ditinction between races. Am I ignorant on this?

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    I don’t follow Log Cabiners currently, Dave. I’m considering a return to the GOP but in an opposition role as I am not happy with the current GOP hierarchy starting with the token African American chairperson who only serves in that role thanks to Barack Obama. The party must be purged of the radical right and return to its roots.

    Evidently, evidence was forwarded to Perry’s office which cast doubt upon Willingham’s guilt. An investigation has been initiated and Gov. Perry has fired members of the board of review in an effort to stall the investigation. If the evidence presented becomes conclusive, blood is on Rick Perry’s hands. In those states where there is a death penalty, I think people need be very cautious and implement a system whereby the Governor, as final arbiter, must be held to a high standard when signing a death warrant.

  • Baronius

    Silas, as I argued on the RINO thread, religious activism is part of the Republican Party’s roots.

  • zingzing

    chris: “In the UK, black and white people are indistinguishable.”

    c’mon. you wish.

    “Am I ignorant on this?”

    apparently… i like your optimism, but holding up the uk as some sort of post-racial paradise is just ridiculous. it may be better than the us in that regard, but for heaven’s sake… “indistinguishable?”

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Jet, Ronnie Paris, Jr. was given 30 years in prison for this crime, considerably more than the typical sentence for 2nd degree manslaughter and child abuse which he was convicted of.

    Perhaps because Paris was afflicted with a fear of homosexuality characteristic of african american culture he should have been given a lighter sentence? To hold him accountable for his homophobia would be racist, after all.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    dave: “Perhaps because Paris was afflicted with a fear of homosexuality characteristic of african american culture he should have been given a lighter sentence? To hold him accountable for his homophobia would be racist, after all.”

    he beat his kid to death. that’s 30 years right there.

    “a fear of homosexuality characteristic of african american culture”

    characteristic? oi. maybe fair. unfortunately.

    “To hold him accountable for his homophobia would be racist, after all.”

    no.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Zing the fact that he can dilute and disuade it at all gives me headaches and heartaches.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Did the kid in #106 deserve to be shot in the head by his classmate?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    This is another example of why gays live in fear of hate crimes… click here

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jet, you made your point about why gays live in fear in America. Only a dimwit wit no brains would fail to see why. Can you give an example of gays who kick ass – you know, like Rav Meir Kahane, may his memory be for a blessing, and may his blood be avenged….

    That is what you need, Jet – someone to kick ass and kick ass hard – not some damned shyster making arguments in a courtroom…..

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Wow!!

    I shut Jet Gardner up! Forty minutes of silence from a guy who cannot shut up!!! Still looking for an example, Jet? Or are you still looking away now that big, bad, evil Ruvy is wide awake and commenting again? You must have real trouble with the idea that when you face death, you deal out death.

    I realize that you couldn’t do that dealing with four Somali thugs. And yes, I realize that you have faced death, and faced death down. But you do have persuasive power. You are not stupid. Stop acting like the “good Jewish boy who will not fight.” If you expect gays to get real respect, gays who can (I realize you are not able to anymore – that’s no shame) have to be willing to kick ass big time and not take prisoners. Those who hate you must be made afraid of you. Until they are, YOU WILL REMAIN A VICTIM.

    Best,
    Ruvy

  • Jordan Richardson

    So what are you suggesting, Ruvy? A pack of homosexual thugs hitting the streets with balaclavas and weaponry? How do you propose the homosexual community “kick ass big time?”

    Considering that you probably believe you kick ass big time, I guess they could do what you do: post comments on the internet while wearing attractive sweaters.

    Sounds like a plan!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jordan,

    So what are you suggesting, Ruvy? A pack of homosexual thugs hitting the streets with balaclavas and weaponry

    I don’t “kick ass big time”, Jordan. Old farts with heart conditions don’t go out leading raids. But, I do stand guard in the village and volunteer with the Israel Police – and push my ideas to any Israeli who will listen – and more and more do listen.

    As for what I suggest, let’s put it this way. The coversation in the Stormfront Bar in Shitface KY should go this way:

    Brad: Hey guy! How’s it goin’ at the junk yard? Whattya say we kill us a fag tonight? [winks conspiratorially]

    Chad: I don’t know, dude. Remember Chester, from the last time we went huntin’? They found him with his balls stuffed in his mouth and his dick shoved up his asshole – in a pile o’ mud. I can’t tell you it was fags fer sure, but what they did to him kinda leaves a message, ya know? Cathy is good with the kids, but I really kinda like the side action I get with Sue, if ya know what I mean? [nods ever so slightly to the busty brunette serving beer at the end of the bar] Cain’t do that with yer balls in yer mouth and yer dick up yer asshole, dude, if you get my broad meaning there [smiles at his own “joke”]. Whattya say we uh “table the rezolution” fer now, Brad? Hey! Lemme buy you another beer!

    Sue! Another beer for my buddy here from the Resurrection Church!

  • http://cockroachpeople.com Rey Lopez-Calderon

    It’s a pity that this article focuses on the validity of penalty-enhancements vis a vis thoughts and motivations (1st amendment) for hate crimes, something settled by the Supreme Court over a decade ago unanimously. It’s also a pity that the author makes no attempt to prove why thoughts aren’t fair game in the first place–as if mens rea weren’t at the heart of most of our criminal jurisprudence.

    What *is* strange about this law is the federalization of hate crime investigations (you know, the whole point of the Shepard-Byrd Act). The wisdom of such federalization is certainly open to debate.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Stop pounding your chest Ruvy, I was so bored with you I fell asleep last night.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Speaking of Blacks civil rights-this is from today’s news!!!

    A Louisiana justice of the peace who refused to issue a marriage license to an interracial couple last week says he’s no racist but has drawn a sharp rebuke from civil rights organizations in the state, The Daily Star of Hammond reports.

    The couple say they plan to consult the U.S. Justice Department about filing a discrimination complaint.

    Keith Bardwell, justice of the peace in Tangipahoa Parish, defends his actions by saying that it is his experience that most interracial marriages do not last long, The Star says.

    “I’m not a racist,” Bardwell says. “I do ceremonies for black couples right here in my house. My main concern is for the children.”

    Beth Humphrey, 30, and her boyfriend, Terence McKay, 32, both of Hammond, said they tried to get a marriage license last week but were told the JP will not sign licenses for interracial marriages.

    “I simply can’t believe he can do that. That’s blatant discrimination,” Humphrey says, according to the newspaper.

    Louisiana ACLU Executive Director Marjorie R. Esman called Bardwell’s move both “tragic and illegal,” the newspaper says.

    Pat Morris, local NAACP president, says she was shocked to hear that the choice of a spouse is still an issue in the parish.

    Bardwell, who has been a JP for 34 years, says the state attorney general told him years ago that he would eventually get into trouble for not performing interracial marriages, The Star says.

    “I told him if I do, I’ll resign,” Bardwell says. “I have rights too. I’m not obligated to do that just because I’m a justice of the peace.”

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Jet –

    Want to know what’s really interesting? Bardwell registered as a Democrat for his first three terms as a Justice of Peace. His fourth term – which began not long after President Obama was elected – he registered as a Republican.

    Gee, now WHY would an obvious racist feel more comfortable with Republicans than with Democrats? Hm?

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “I shut Jet Gardner up! Forty minutes of silence from a guy who cannot shut up!!!”

    oh god. shut up, ruvy.

    and stop being such a macho blowhard. it’s absolutely ridiculous. and so paper-thin, you could spit through it.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Glenn that should be obvious, because republicans play on the common ignorance of simple folk like bible beaters, racists, gun totters who think the constitution gives them the right to buy armor-piercing bullets because most deer wear bullet-proof vests and South Florida boat owner/dealers.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Zing, he “shut me up” at about 3AM Eastern time. I get easily bored around then.

  • Baronius

    Come on, Jet. You’re better than comment #129.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Baronius –

    Jet was being humorous – that much should be obvious since deer don’t normally wear South Florida boat dealers.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    groan… sigh

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    I promise when my prescriptions kick in I’ll try to be funnier Baronius.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    However Glenn I do know of a south Florida boat dealer whose a dear

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Jet? What happened!?!? You stopped at ‘dear’ – did you go out without your bullet-proof vest! I told you to be careful around there!

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    I know, I know, no excuses. I just wasn’t wearing protection just then… ahem

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    “I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends… that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them.”

    Adlai E. Stevenson Jr. (1900 – 1965),

  • Baronius

    Jet, I’m not complaining about the humor, or the lack of it. I’m complaining about the one-dimensional stereotyping. There have been a lot of objections raised to hate crimes law on this thread, and none of them used the phrase “queers ain’t worth protectin'”.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Sorry Baronius, Ruvy told me to get them before they got me… or was it give back what they’re giving? or… uh… I’m stereotyping them like they stereotype me.

    something like that 😉

    it’s either that or just go
    (:^PbPb~~~~~~~~

    but I get my keyboard all wet when I do that.

  • Clavos

    Gee, now WHY would an obvious racist feel more comfortable with Republicans than with Democrats? Hm?

    Must be because Republicans and their party are racist.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    all right whose posting comments under Clavos’ name?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    I used to be a republican before Jerry Falwell and the NRA bought the franchise.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    I couldn’t handle Anita Bryant singing their themesong

  • Baronius

    Jet, if you’re going to get distracted every time Ruvy tells you to kill someone…

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Baronius – that’s pretty good….

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Where could you get more level-headed advice than from Ruvy?

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Clavos –

    I did not say that Republicans are racist – please don’t put words in my mouth. What I HAVE said time and again is that there are far more racists in the Republican party than in the Democratic party…and that they are tolerated by the Republicans FAR more than they are tolerated by the Democrats.

    I won’t go so far as Cobra did and say that when some within their own party do or say something racist, the silence of Republicans who are NOT racist make them ‘unindicted co-conspirators’ (though the rest of his comment was brilliant). I WILL say it means that they are afraid of speaking up, of being rejected by their fellow conservatives…and console themselves by telling each other that ‘the other guys are just as bad’.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Glenn the republican party has now become the party of leftovers. After you put all of the people who consider everyone else’s point of view along with their own, and who make rational decisions, there is only one way to outnumber that group politically.

    Collect all the leftovers and fool them into thinking you’re on they’re side.

    Therefore the GOP is now made up of…

    -People waving pre-manufactured “handmade” signs with photos of hands holding tiny baby feet, trying to convince you that abortion clinics are full of leering doctors with butcherknifes gleefully chopping up tiny squirming babies into strips to feed to their dogs.

    -Rednecks who think that banning the sale of their hunting rifles and their way of life, is superglue-linked to being able to buy a semi-automatic machinegun at a gun show without showing I.D. or a permit to own one, or being able to purchase armour piercing bullets for fending off revenuers.

    -Bornagains trying to convince you to fear homosexuals roaming the streets wearing pink peddlepushers roving for little boys to kidnap, convert and recruit them to their evil ways.

    -Oil company execs trying to hide their billions in profits, and screaming that global warming is a myth because the winters are getting colder earlier-ignoring that when you put more ice in a glass of water… it gets colder, much like breaking up the polar ice caps is doing to our oceans thus our weather.

    -Jesus freaks that desparately need everyone to fear them because they claim to speak from God, lowering our nation’s intelligence and knowledge base because of their demands to teach the Bible instead of Science.

    -and ASSHOLES that still maintain that Hawaii isn’t a state and so Obama can’t be president and never will believe it even if God handed down a valid birthcertificate to them.

    I rest my case.

  • Baronius

    OK, Jet, maybe that earlier post’s cliches and stereotyping weren’t beneath you. I still think you can do better though.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    YOu didn’t like 149?

  • zingzing

    jet, you forgot people who like saying the word “liberty” over and over.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    My bad

  • Baronius

    Jet, your 149 read like a temper tantrum rather than an analysis. I mean, listing born-agains, Jesus freaks, and pro-lifers in three categories didn’t add any information. It just gave you an opportunity to complain about the people you don’t like three times. It was identical to your comment 129.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Why is it that anything I post that someone doesn’t like automatically gets classified as a fucking temper tantrum.

    There’s a damn good reason why I’ve stayed away from BC except to write articles and that’s the main one.

    I now return you to your reading pleasure and I’m gone…

  • Baronius

    Jet, I just don’t know how to respond when someone complains about Jerry Falwell and Anita Bryant. Disco music isn’t very good, either, and Ford Pintos can sometimes explode.

  • zingzing

    disco’s awesome.

  • Clavos

    What I HAVE said time and again is that there are far more racists in the Republican party than in the Democratic party…and that they are tolerated by the Republicans FAR more than they are tolerated by the Democrats.

    I fail to see the distinction, but that’s probably because I’m a racist.

    If they’re tolerated by the Reps, the Reps must approve of racism, ergo the Reps are racist.

    Ask Cobra.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jet,

    My message remains the same; stop whining and do something that will END your victim status. In your case, that means encouraging other gays to take direct, and where necessary, violent, action. Whining about people beating up gays will only PREPETUATE that victim status. ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS.

    If you can’t figure that out, you will be able to figure nothing out.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    That may work in Israel Ruvy, but here in the U.S. the jails are already overcrowded as it is and I look terrible in flourescent orange.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior.
    Sir Francis Bacon (1561 – 1626)

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Update: Daniel Rodriguez, 21, and pal Daniel Aleman, 26, the two captured on surveillance video repeatedly punching, kicking and stomping on Price, have been charged with felony assault as a hate crime.

    The bruises on Price’s face are healing, but his feelings toward Rodriguez and Aleman remain raw.

    “I hope they rot in jail,” Price said. “I don’t understand how someone can do this to somebody. They almost killed another human being.”

    Price said he was on his way home when Rodriguez and Aleman, both of whom he recognized from the neighborhood, began taunting him.

    Speaking in Spanish, the pair of thugs called Price a “stupid faggot” and “dumb faggot,” he said.

    “They didn’t know I spoke Spanish,” Price said.

    He ducked into a bodega to grab cigarettes, but when he emerged, Rodriguez and Aleman confronted him again.

    “I know where you live, faggot,” one of the men said, Price recalled.

    “You better run away before he kills you,” the other said.

    Moments later, the pair pounced.

    Price said he doesn’t remember much from the attack, only that he was surprised when he realized he was still alive.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    In taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior.
    Sir Francis Bacon (1561 – 1626)

    Go ahead and explain that to the homosexuals the Nazis murdered off in death camps, Jet. I got your message. You would rather be a victim (or afraid of becoming one) than do something about it. You don’t have to explain further at all.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    You’re absolutely right Ruvy, excuse me a sec while I go out and kill and maime

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    An interesting concept…

    If I take revenge-I’m a criminal
    If I think rationally-I’m a wimp
    If I object (no matter how carefully worded)-I’m having a temper tantrum

    That tells me more about all of you than myself

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    So let me get this straight…

    Desecrating a synagogue with swaztikas or racist slurs on a minority church should be viewed the SAME WAY as writing “John loves Suzy” on the school house wall? Simple vandalism?

    This is truly “Glennbeckistan”, isn’t it?

    –Cobra

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Clavos writes:

    “If they’re tolerated by the Reps, the Reps must approve of racism, ergo the Reps are racist.

    Ask Cobra.”

    Ask Edmund Burke, Clavos.

    “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

    –Cobra

  • Clavos

    Evil has already triumphed, Cobra.

    In innumerable ways.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Am I evil Clavos?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    I have that quote on the banner of my politics page Cobra… kudos

  • Clavos

    Am I evil Clavos?

    Beats me, Jet. Are you?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    This is very disillusioning Clavos, I thought you knew everything :)

  • Clavos

    Naw, I just pretend to.

    But don’t let that get around — Oh, wait…

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    That’s what makes you so lovable…

  • Baronius

    The man who knows what he knows is wise. The man who knows not that he knows not is a fool. The man who thinks he knows what he knows not, he’s just a jerk. I hate him so much, going around knowing not, and not knowing he knows not, I just wanna smack him.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    That is what you need, Jet – someone to kick ass and kick ass hard – not some damned shyster making arguments in a courtroom…..

    Sorry I’m late to comment on this, Ruvy. Being on the mend and only able to type with one hand is horrific for me. Your comment is right on the money. We need more activists in the LGBT community who are courageous enough to stand up and expose the corruption rampant within the LGBT community itself.

    It’s no secret inside the Washington Beltway that LGBT (more specifically gay white males) staffers are in the majority on the Conservative side of the aisle. It is also no secret within the Beltway that there are many, I repeat MANY, legislators who are good Right-wing, God fearing, “family types” who lurk in the shadows in their self-loathing preying on those gays less fortunate than themselves. They hate their identity so much that they treat their respective male sex partners like chattel or slime. It’s time to expose every last one of them for the duplicitous pieces of shit they really are.

    Barack Obama has paid no more than lip service when it comes to Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. He’s proven that politics drives him more than that which is right under our Constitution. We need to wrestle control of Congress away from the lobbyists and fringes on both sides. We need to become proactive in our own communities, parading into our local Congressional offices. It’s time to summon our members of Congress home for a reality check. Either they get with the program and start responding to the real issues of the day or they get the hell out.

    Unfortunately, Americans are lazy and too self-absorbed to appreciate that the ultimate power does rest with the ballot box. It would tear us away from our television sets, Dancing with the Stars and our collective bag of potato chips.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    thinks about where Silas’ one hand has been, drops the potato chips back into the collective bag, and decides to have something that comes in a single serving container

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Is there a way to wash one hand very well?

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    While I sympathize, the root of the problem is not that the laws are unfair to minorities but that they are not being enforced properly. I don’t see how adding another charge of a hate crime changes anything.

  • Clavos

    Bingo, EB!

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Silas,

    A good place to start would be to review the text of the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell Don’t Pursue” Legislation from 1993.

    Read the language of the text, specifically:

    “THE PROHIBITION AGAINST HOMOSEXUAL CONDUCT IS A LONGSTANDING ELEMENT OF MILITARY LAW THAT CONTINUES TO BE NECESSARY IN THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES OF MILITARY SERVICE.”

    Now, remember 1993? Democrats controlled the House, Senate and White House, and what was the vote count on this legislation with THAT kind of language, that President Clinton signed?

    Passed in Senate (63 to 33) on September 9, 1993
    Passed in House (301 to 134) on September 28, 1993

    Exactly what kind of vote count would you get on repealling Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell if it went to the floor of the House and Senate TODAY, in the midst of the Health Care fracas, right before the cap and trade war?

    I certainly empathize with your position. I listen to my mother, who tells me how she spent half of her life riding at the back of bus in the Jim Crow South, relegated to second class citizenship. It took almost 200 years for African-Americans to get full civil rights in every state.

    I too, would like to see this policy thrown out. But like they say, all politics are local.

    What’s the position of YOUR Representative in Congress on DADT? Your state’s Senators?
    Blaming President Obama for not waving a magic wand and making a law voted in by a LARGE margin by a Democratically Controlled Congress disappear in the first 9 months of his administration is unrealistic, IMHO.

    El Bicho writes:

    “While I sympathize, the root of the problem is not that the laws are unfair to minorities but that they are not being enforced properly. I don’t see how adding another charge of a hate crime changes anything.”

    What’s your theory?

    As I said before, I believe there’s a difference between hanging a noose on a front yard tree of a Black family that just moved in, and egging that same family’s car on mischief night.

    What I find the most ironic about the hate crimes debate, is that the loudest opponents of the measures are the supposed “law & order” conservative-types, many of whom have absolutely no problem when law enforcement uses race and ethnicity to profile.

    It’s also ironic that these anti-hate crimes folks have perhaps unwittingly, positioned themselves as pro-bono advocates for the “hate criminals” themselves. If one believes that trying to intimidate a racial, religious or ethnic population should merit the same penalty as a misdemeanor graffiti violation, what other conclusion should one draw?

    –Cobra

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Silas,

    I have tried to get Jet to see that action, real and direct action, is the only route to go in terms of removing the very real and visceral fear American homosexual men live under. He doesn’t want to know. Having seen how legislation that outlaws incitement to violence is unevenly enforced here in Israel, with the result that Jews live in fear of Arabs attacking because the Israel Police will not lift a fucking finger to help them, and will arrest Jews who resist Arab attack, it is not hard to see (especially with the idiots in power now) how gays and Jews will NOT be protected under the “hate crimes” bill where others will be.

    You do not ameliorate your situation by whining, demonstrating or complaining. You follow the lesson of American blacks – who resorted to violence to answer violence and hav been feared for some decades in the States. THOSE WHO DO NOT CARE TO OBEY THE LAW AND WHO WILL ATTACK GAYS MUST LEARN VISCERAL FEAR OF THEM.

    When extra legal violwence is suppressed through a “balance of terror” in the population, then you can address the issue of ultimate sovereignty lying in the ballot box, which is what addressed above. That is how a man perceived to be black, Obama, got elected in the first place.

    I hope your hand heals soon.

    Ruvy

  • Baronius

    Ruvy, a practical matter.

    You live in a part of the world where people take to the streets chanting, “we will kill you”, then come back later and kill you. Most of us don’t have that experience.

    There’s nothing wrong with self-defense; if memory serves, Jet bulked up as a youth for exactly that purpose. But the “kill him before he kills you” strategy doesn’t work, legally or practically, unless the person is clearly trying to kill you.

    Tom, Dick, and Harry are walking down the street. They pass Jet. One of them says “queer!” and the others laugh. Tom is ignorant, Dick is bored, and Harry is trying to convince Tom that the one time he tried to kiss him didn’t mean anything. Should Jet kill them?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    On don’t ask don’t tell, if the military actually enforced their rules against members having sex with each other regardless of sexual preference then don’t ask don’t tell would be much less of an issue.

    Dave

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Dave if the military actually enforced their rules against members having sex… We wouldn’t have a military!

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Thank you Baronius, If those three called me a fag, I’d ignore their ignorance. There’s a difference between being called one and being beaten to a pulp for being one.

    As a point of order we actually do go out in groups for protection of each other. fortunately you wouldn’t be able to tell I was gay by looking at me-ergo jeans t-shirt tennis shoes and no jewelry, and I don’t dye my hair pink or purple… well I got blond highlights once but that didn’t last long.

    Gays beating the piss out of anyone that called us a fag probably wouldn’t work considering that fear DOES NOT earn respect from the general public. It just shows you’re as ignorant as them if not more so.

    Starting an organization like the Black Panthers won’t work either as we’d be called the Pink Panthers and that name’s already being used.

    The gay color by the way isn’t pink-it’s lavendar with is a equal mix of pink an blue. Many think our color is pink because of the pink triangles that gays in the Nazi concentrations camps were forced to wear.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Look, the military has to take a stand; sex could lead to love; love could lead to questions about whether killing people is actually the right thing to do. They know everyone is having sex. But making it hard makes it all the less likely it will involve love.

    Besides, sex is something best kept in its place–a dark place. It’s much better to have everyone seeking out and sharing pornography than actually promoting actual sex based on the real and the personal and the potentially loving. Sex with poor people in poor countries is okay. They’re just objects that way. Kill ’em, fuck ’em; what’s the difference? All objects. Let’s keep everything nice and impersonal.

    Stamp out love so there is less self-questioning and killing is easier.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Yesterday, hundreds of people gathered in College Point, Queens to protest the brutal attack that left a 49-year-old gay man clinging to life. Price’s brother told the Daily News, “Nobody should have to worry about looking behind their backs. Parents have to teach their kids. They learn hatred and all that stuff at home.”

    Based on the harrowing surveillance footage, police have arrested two suspects, Daniel Aleman, 26, and Daniel Rodriguez, Jr., 21, and their supporters were watching the parade. A 15-year-old friend of Rodriguez’s said, “This whole rally is so pathetic. I don’t think this is a hate crime because he doesn’t have nothing against gay people.”

    Well, another friend of Rodriguez’s spoke to WABC 7 last week (video below), essentially saying that Price deserved to be be beaten up because he allegedly propositioned Rodriguez and blew him a kiss, “I mean, I don’t want no man blowing me a kiss either. Things happen. I been beat up too, but you don’t see me and my family on news crying…Wounds heal.” The friend also showed off his Leviticus 18:22 tattoo: “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”

    According to the tape and witnesses Price did not react to his taunts in any way, nor did he make any gestures toward his attackers other to duck into a deli to avoid them.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Baronius, a practical matter.

    Jet lives in a part of the world where people beat homosexuals to a pulp because of what they are. There is no law – NO LAW – that will instill fear into those who hate homosexuals – none whatever. The ONLY thing that will instill fear into the animals who would beat homosexuals to a pulp is being beaten to a pulp themselves. That statement goes for Jews as well.

    Calling someone a “fag” or a “kike” breaks no bones and causes damage only in insecure people. Attacking a Jew or a gay man (gay women seem to get a free pass on the violence) is a different ball game entirely.

    Gays beating the piss out of anyone that called us a fag probably wouldn’t work considering that fear DOES NOT earn respect from the general public. It just shows you’re as ignorant as them if not more so

    The idea here is not to impress the general public but to instill raw fear in those who hate gay people so that they do not act out the hatred they feel and will continue to feel. The general public’s opinion is only important in that they do not become hostile to gay people generally. By not having a “hate crimes” law on the books, the “hate crime” of beating the living shit out of a “fag-basher” will merely be reported as an assault…. The victim will know why and when he bitches, only the scum in the society will sympathize with him. Everyone else will say, “he had it coming”, even if they disapprove of the beating itself.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Uh huh

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Jet,

    You’re the one continually bitching in post after post about how gays are getting bashed. If all you can do is contemptuously dismiss not merely empathy from one who comprehends that suffering, but also a possible solution, there is nothing more to be said on the matter.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    And that is the END of my responses to you. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Let’s put it this way, so know one can mistake my intent or my meaning.

    If I whined about Jew-hatred the way some here whine about hatred of gays, I would sound pathetic. Jewish lists and media stink from such whining and it sickens me. Instead, I propose solutions to the Jew-hatred – i.e. killing the bastards off so they can’t kill us, and frankly I don’t give a damn if some of you do not like that.

    It’s your problem. I, for one, have no time for whiners.

  • kpokeefe

    What I want to know is how am I supposed to know if the wallet from whom I stealing belongs to a man who is gay. How do you tell?

    So if I steal a wallet from a straight guy then I get charged with a regular state felony, but if I steal from a gay guy then I get charged with a felony by the state as well as by the feds.

    Hell my wife calls me a “fag” all the time. I guess I need to record it in case we ever end up in divorce court. Might be my ticket out of alimony.

    Gees, these laws are beginning to get so complex that we need to take continuing education classes just to walk out our doors every morning.

    At least I know that I don’t have to put up with being called a “cracker” anymore when I go downtown at night on the weekends. BELIEVE, I’ll have my finger on 911 speed dial. “Operator I have a federal crime in progress…Forget the POlice send the FBI” LOL!!!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    K.P.:

    In your scenario you wouldn’t be committing a hate crime. If, however, you were to steal his wallet for no other reason than because he was gay, then that might be a hate crime.

  • zingzing

    ruvy, you talk a big game and play the tough guy, but everyone can see through to your soft, yellow core. your words are empty shells, and thank god for that. proposing “solutions” (funny word, that,) is just more words, nothing more. unless you’re actually willing to go out on the streets and fight (or, heaven forbid, kill,) then you’re no better than that which you rail against. that seems to be a pattern with you, actually.

    jet actually realizes that going out and being some sort of punisher-type belongs in comics, not in reality. so don’t bash on him until you realize that you are no better. and you would be worse if you actually were to do the things you think are right.

    idiot.

  • Ruvy

    We’ll see if Chris Rose or DD edits out your comment “idiot” as a personal attack or not, zing.

    Beyond that, I’m done with this thread. You can scream on if you want to, though. Be my guest.

  • Ruvy

    Well, zing, your personal attack still stands. So much for the objectivity of the comments editors…..

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Mea culpa, actually, Ruvy. I was on watch when he slipped that one in and I missed it. Can’t access the comments tool from this computer so hopefully Chris can do the honours.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    Ruvy complaining about a personal attack? That’s rich.

  • zingzing

    nothing up there looks like screaming to me. just stating the facts. you’re a old man who talks big, but would probably have a heart attack if you actually went out to do anything. or they’d just laugh at you. the way you rage on is ridiculous and childish.

    and i was done with this one too before i saw that you decided to throw a couple of personal attacks at jet because he wasn’t out there killing people. that’s just going too far. shows just how out of touch with reality you are.

    the “idiot” probably stands because everyone agrees.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    The “idiot” still stands because Ruvy loves a good argument and gives far more than he gets.

    Actually, I’ll let Ruvy decide; Ruvy, if you post a comment asking me to remove the word I will, but I will also police every single one of your future comments and meticulously purge anything that even hints at a personal attack. Your call…

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “If I whined about Jew-hatred the way some here whine about hatred of gays, I would sound pathetic.”

    indeed!

  • Ruvy

    Chris, you already police every single one of my comments now and meticulously purge anything that even hints at a personal attack. That’s why I commented on this in the first place. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have even bothered. I don’t mind if a fool calls me an idiot – so long as I get to return the honors.

    Like I said: zing’s personal attack still stands. So much for the objectivity of the head comments editors…. I appreciate DD’s apology and am grateful for his graciousness.

    Have a nice night, Chris.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “I don’t mind if a fool calls me an idiot – so long as I get to return the honors.”

    you just did. and i bow. (and i don’t care if an idiot calls me a fool.) sometimes, the fool speaks the truth but you can’t hear it.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, I’ll take that as a no then. I am so not surprised.

    When you get that chip off your shoulder and manage to stand up straight, I hope the world will seem a nicer place to you.