Home / GOPs in Congress Still Making Demands: Do They Know They Lost Election?

GOPs in Congress Still Making Demands: Do They Know They Lost Election?

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As recent legislative events will attest to, the Republicans in Congress aren't opposing President Barack Obama because there's a good reason for it, nor to protect or help our nation’s economy in any way. In my opinion, they're just nitpicking, verbally distracting, and trying to delay majority legislation because they’ve discovered that they still can.

It’s not obvious to the general public yet, but with only a few conservative Democrats defecting to the other side, it's become clear to the Republican minority that important legislation can’t possibly make it through both houses of Congress with a filibuster-proof margin, so they delay and publicly criticize, knowing the media will eat it up, which (they hope) should distract everyone from the obvious fact that the GOP tried it their way for eight years and wound us up in the situation we're in now.

Of even more interest is a complaint from Rep. John A. Boehner (OH) that the bill was passing without anyone reading it.

Uh, John, the bill is basically the same as it was three weeks ago — save a few alterations to soothe a few hesitant Republicans like you. If you or your staff haven't read it by now, you never will — not that you ever intended to. A better question would be how many bulky Republican bills have you hypocritically not read through?

With Republicans in both houses screaming bloody murder at the top of their lungs over the billions we have to spend to clean up President George W. Bush’s disastrous financial mess, maybe they are hoping we won’t remember how much we’ve spent in dollars and lives on a useless and unwarranted war in Iraq. A war, mind you, that our children's children will still be paying for decades from now, just like they claim the bailout will do.

One of the reasons that the general public gave both houses of Congress such bad approval ratings after the Democrats just barely (emphasis on the word “barely”) won the majority of both houses in 2004 was because the electorate didn’t understand the consequences of that slim victory. The U.S. voter didn’t realize or even care enough to learn that without a Bush-veto-proof majority nothing could get done without begging the GOP for cooperation. Cooperation that they weren’t about to give if it meant admitting that the Democrats might have some better ideas on how to get things done, than they did during their own failed tenure, so they blamed the Democratic majority for apparent inaction that wasn't in their power to side-step.

With President Obama achieving the unprecedented legislative passage of a bill of historic proportions only two and a half weeks into his presidency, maybe it’s swiftly becoming a good and timely idea to remind those GOP and conservative Democratic congressmen and senators that either they shut up and get with the majority’s decisions, or lose their seats in the coming mid-term elections. Like it or not, the Republican minority is taking a big gamble opposing President Obama.  If the economy begins to bounce back in two years, they’re all going to look like fools … and deservedly so.

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About Jet Gardner

I like collecting books, music, movies, chess sets and friends
  • Jet aks “GOPs in Congress Still Making Demands-Do They Know They Lost Election?”

    Besides any other ridiculous presumptions in this article, this is just factually WRONG in the very title. Every one of those Republicans won their own elections. Most particularly every Republican member of the house won an election in 2008.

    I’ll note that my local congressman Mike Pence is quite popular and is definitely representing for a majority view in this district regarding these continuing bailouts. NO NO NO.

    And OF COURSE the Democrats who have had control of Congress and the purse strings the last two years, and effectively for most of Bush’s presidency were not responsible for any government policies in the current mess.

    Damn that BusHitler.

  • Arch Conservative

    They know they lost. That doesn’t mean they have to rollover for Barry.

    Maybe the GOP has finally realized that the reason people like me abandoned them during the last election is because they have strayed so far from conservative fiscal principles. They’re actually being fiscally conservative for the first time in a long time. I hope it’s based on principle and not just a desire to play politics and oppose for the sake of opposing.

    I don’t see what all the hoopla is about. The Dems didn’t need the repubs to pass this massive spending bill. They voted for it almost across the board as the gop voted against it almost across the board. So if it’s the bill that’s going to save us all the Dems should quit their bitching about lack of gop support, step up to the plate and take ownership. They’re telling us how it will create 3 million new jobs……….well bully for them if it does…then they get to be the heros while the GOP.

    But if the bill fails to affect any significant economic prosperity by the midterm elections the Dems are going to pay a hefty price. They control both houses of Congress and the White House. there’s no one left to blame and while the mainstream media and people like Jet might allow Barry and company to blame anything and everything that goes wrong in the next four years on Bush, not enough will to save his sorry ass from a Carter like fate come 2012.

  • Jet

    A: this is an opinion piece, and just because you selfrighteously declare my conclusions wrong or ridiculous, DOES NOT make it so, that’s just your MINORITY opinion… so don’t presume to represent the rest of the general public-which you definately don’t. If you did the Republicans would hold the White House and Congress-which you don’t.

    B: Despite how many Republicans won the election, they are STILL IN THE MINORITY, and despite your popular congressman, his and your litle corner of the country are still in the minority-that means the MAJORITY of the voting public obviously disagree with you-like it or not.

    C: Again, as I pointed out before, your Bushit doesn’t wash trying to blame democrats for the Bush years. They didn’t have a majority sizable to overide Bush’s vetos, nor were they elected to shut up Bushit republican filibustering of anything usable in terms of legislature. In order to pass any usable legislation, the Dems had to kiss that asshole Bush’s ass, or fail in the trying.

    President Obama has achieved more than any Republican president in only his first few weeks in office-a fact you can’t dispute without more of your bushit.

    I laugh at your ignorance.

  • Jet,

    Good for you that you’re finally aboard. Believe you me, there’s more of the same coming – sour grapes I mean – from Nally and friends. They’re all frantic, trying to devise ways in which to undermine present efforts. But try as they may – and they all intent on sounding knowledgeable in matters economic – the truth of the matter is, they’re scare shitless. No one can tell me that they KNOW what the future holds: past categories and understandings no longer apply.

    Keep at it, buddy.

  • Jet

    This is terrifying, I almost agree with Arch, except on one important point. As long as a few defecting conservative democrats keep the aspect of a prolonged filibuster alive, we need the GOPs cooperation-and they know it and are laughing their asses off.

    To constantly assert that the Democrats still have to get the GOPs cooperation, is false and misleading.

  • Arch Conservative

    President Obama has achieved more than any Republican president in only his first few weeks in office-a fact you can’t dispute without more of your bushit.

    He has? What are those acheivements?

  • Jet,

    I think you’re putting too much faith in politics as it’s presently practiced.

    Believe it or not, the world is changing and America, if it continues on its present course, is a thing of the past.

    It’s time to think of other solutions. My upcoming article, by the way, the sequel to “The New World Order, Part I,” delves into that.

    It’s about to get published.

  • Arch Conservative

    The last time I checked there was only one GOP in congress.

  • Jet

    From the Washington Post:

    …The feat compares only with President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s banking system overhaul in 1933, which cleared Congress within days of his inauguration.

    …Long before the end of the 100 days that, since FDR’s feat, have been used to measure the opening act of a presidency, Obama and his allies who control Congress can point to a major legislative victory earlier than most new administrations…

    …At about this point in Bill Clinton’s administration, the president and his new team were putting the final touches on an economic plan that had yet to be publicly announced.

    …That economic plan ultimately passed in August, giving the young president a victory. But his $19 billion stimulus plan — one-fortieth of the current legislation — was too controversial to survive the partisan battles…

    … President George W. Bush was similarly without a major achievement by the week of Feb. 8, 2001, three weeks after his inauguration.

    Bush had begun selling his $1.6 trillion plan to cut taxes, and he had announced a plan for a big investment in new weaponry for the military. He was preparing for his first international trip, to Mexico, and gave a speech to military units warning against “overdeployment.”

    Unlike Obama, by this point Bush had not yet held a prime-time news conference. Like Obama, Bush made an [lame]early gesture to encourage bipartisanship: inviting members of the Kennedy family to the White House to see the movie “Thirteen Days.”

  • Arch Conservative

    So Jet………..

    If this bill turns out to have a negative impact on our economy and unemployment and inflation continue to grow over the next two years is history going to remember Obama getting it through Congress as a major victory?

    Because other than this bill all he’s done in the past few weeks has been to make a decision that will see hundreds of terrorist sent to American soil, nominate a few tax cheats, and unsuccessfully attempt to hijack the census.

  • Jet

    Get back to me in two years Arch, when all your predictions can be denyed, then we’ll judge history.

    I swear some of your conclusions are about as ridiculous as denying caucasions driver’s licenses because nearly all automobile accidents are caused by white people.

  • Jet

    As for jerimandering the census, nothing like that happened back in 2000 with the GOP congress…right?

  • Jet

    As for a terrorist attack during Obama’s watch, uh 911 happened during Bush’s watch and look how we all rallied around him (even me)

    You don’t think the same thing will happen for Obama?

    Your arguments are about as stupid as trying to convince America that Obama wasn’t a native citizen so he can’t become president.

    By the way is R&R one of your offspring or just a relative of H&C?

  • I tend to agree with MSNBC’s Chris Matthews that the Dems should let the Reps filibuster if they choose. Ultimately, they will have to give in, and to do so would be finally admitting defeat. They run the risk of really being on the wrong side, if say, they had filibustered the Stimulus Bill, wasting valuable time, then only to see it do the job intended in the coming months.

    I can clearly see that Obama’s victory has been a good thing for all the cons here at BC. It gives them a clear target – one man on whom they can spew their venom. We had that advantage over the last 8 years. I say – let em wail. It’s all meaningless BC BS.


  • Arch Conservative

    I notice you had no comment on Barry picking a tax cheat to head the treausry Jet.

    The fact is that neither you nor I can predict with certainty what this package will do to us. You also seem to evade the idea that the economy is affected by things beyond a presidents control. You want to blame bush and credit Obama for everything that hasn’t even happened yet and my arguments are stupid?

    Stupid was Keith Olbermann’s idea to have Jimmy Carter on his show last night and ask him how we should make the economy better.

  • Jet

    You are just a nit-picking fool Arch, trying to distract from any relevant point.

    Do you actually believe that Obama had time to go through every single page of every single person he was going to nominate? Could you, you hypocrite?

    How about holding yourself up to your own skewed standards-not likely!

    So what your saying is that Obama secretly went out and courted tax cheats to sabotabe his own legacy? Is that what you want us to believe?

    Are you really that niave? Do you really expect us to believe that?

  • Baronius

    Jet, both sides may have gerrymandered before, but no one’s ever messed with the Census. The Obama team hasn’t yet, and I’m really hoping they won’t.

    If the GOP were voting against their historic principles, I’d believe that they were being obstructionist. I was suspicious, for example, of the Republicans who complained about the former-Yugoslavia interventions in the Clinton years. But this is what they’re supposed to do, voting against big budgets. They should be ashamed of everything they’ve done other than this vote.

  • Arch Conservative

    Do you actually believe that Obama had time to go through every single page of every single person he was going to nominate? Could you, you hypocrite?

    No but if I had had found after the fact he was a tax cheat I would have kicked him to the curb and you know damn well if Bush had nominated a tax cheat to head the treasury you and every other moonbat would have been calling him corrupt. But it’s nice to see the lengths to which you will go to excuse the behavior by your savior. You’re a hypocrite and a liberal……gee there’s a real novel combination.

  • Clavos

    …and unsuccessfully attempt to hijack the census.

    He’s not done yet, Arch. The Dems desperately want control of the Census Bureau so they can overturn the Constitutional requirement for an actual count and introduce census by “sampling,” in order to inflate the numbers in groups which are traditionally their supporters.

    That’s one of the two main reasons (the other being the “Stimulus” plan) that Gregg declined his nomination for Commerce Secretary, and it will be one of the big fights of the next few months.

  • Jet

    I think it’s irresponsible that the right is accusing him of messing with a census that hasn’t even taken place for chrissake!

    Anything to distract from his accomplishment.

    Let’s start screaming from the rooftops that the comet that’s going to hit earth is Obama’s fault for not properly funding NASA!

    Let’s blame the plane crash in Buffalo on Obama for not courting Air Traffic controllers enough, or supporting more expensive deicing research!

    We, we, we could have a horific drought next year because Obama hasn’t hired enough Indian rain dancers yet! and and and we’ll have a terrible flood because he panicked and hired too many after reading this comment!

    The rightwing protesters are getting downright ridiculous and more than a bit shrill.

    Carefull, that gets old REAAAAALLLLLL fast

  • Clavos

    You’re getting hysterical, Jet.

    Take a deep breath and check your meds…

  • Arch Conservative

    For someone who’s blamed everything bad in the last eight years on Bush you’re awfully touchy Jet.

    Obama’s nothing but another crooked Chicago politician.

    You can choose to take the cyanide capsule rather than face the stark reality that your faith in this hack was all for naught.

    I don’t really give a damn what you do.

  • Jet

    I didn’t excuse anyone Arch, you’re the one trying to convince us that Obama INTENTIONALLY nominated a tax cheat.

    Nice to know that you’re arrogant enough to believe we’d swallow that load of Bushit.

  • Jet

    Ah, if I make a relavant point, that makes me hysterical Clavos-because you say so. Wow, that must be a heavy burden you carry to be such a oft-pronouncing judge like that. To carry the weight of the fact that everyone waits with baited breath at your next pronouncement of reality.

    I’m glad you’re there for us my friend.

  • bliffle

    The GOPs are pursuing a dangerous course with this obstructionist ploy in congress. They risk being labeled as un-American for opposing a stimulus plan for the general citizen this year, when they were so eager to give carte blanche bailouts to bankers last year.

    The D’s have been polite so far, but it’s going to happen that sooner or later some D will lash out at the R obstructionists, regardless of instructions from The Top.

  • Clavos

    Ah, if I make a relavant point, that makes me hysterical Clavos-because you say so.

    Your “point” was a total non sequitur, which is why I made the comment about hysterical.

    Oh, and it’s bated breath, my friend.

  • Jet

    Or as I like to say Blif, you can only swallow so much baloney before you spit it back in their faces.

  • Jet

    Oh, well that negates my entire point Clavos, thank you saving me further embarrassment… friend

  • Arch Conservative

    I didn’t excuse anyone Arch, you’re the one trying to convince us that Obama INTENTIONALLY nominated a tax cheat.

    NO I was making the point that if Bush had unintentionally nominated a tax cheat to head the treasury you would have been up in arms. Obama does it and it’s no big deal.

    Oh and he nominated not 1 but three tax cheats to be in his cabinet Jet.

    You need to settle down though Jet……..I’m sure there will be countless opportunities during the next four years for you to prove what a complete hypocrite you are where politics are concerned.

  • Jet

    Oh and your reasonable unbiased opinions are safe and secure too Arch?

    How many people do you think you’re swaying with your idocy and fuzzy logic?

    Exactly who said is was no big deal? Even Obama himself said he screwed up-Something Bush would never admit, or you. Have you ever admitted you were wrong?

    Fortunately the political percentages on this website don’t reflect the country as a whole.

  • Let’s see…

    Obama nominating people who might have problems with their taxes…


    Bush appointing people who might be war criminals?

    John Negroponte

    Nope. Not a tough decision for me.


  • C i n d y

    RE #7


  • Jet

    Welcome Cobra, I hope you’re as well versed at ducking bushit, they like to sling it against the walls here when it suits their purposes.

  • Jet

    I think I’m beginning to understand why there’s no “middle of the road” politicos any more. What with the far-far right slinging mud at the left and the far-far left hurling it back again, who the fuck would want to be caught in the crossfire?

    As for those of you predicting the downfall of U.S. democracy, try living somewhere else first.

  • Jet

    Is it me or are Chris and Doc being strangely quiet tonight?

  • Cindy

    The far far left are watching the mudslinging from the sidelines hoping anyone right of them wakes up to the notion that none of it is going to work. I don’t know what the far far right are doing, waiting for the Rapture maybe.

  • The Rapture is Ruptured!

    It’d be interesting to see just how many DC politicos on all sides – Senators, members of the House, former and current cabinet members, agency heads, advisors, lobbyists, etc. are “tax cheats?” How many of them, or us here for that matter, would survive an IRS audit cleanly?

    With pretty much every new administration there has been a plethora of troubles with various cabinet, Supreme Court, and other nominees who have been found to have any number of issues including tax problems, problems with hiring illegal aliens as nannys or housekeepers, etc., conflicts of interest, being subject to some investigation, extra-marital affairs, etc.

    Few people go through the ringer of political life on most any level without some skeletal remains abiding in their closets. Certainly, the particular turn of events in this instance is at best nettlesome and at worst an embarrassment to Obama and which reflects poorly on his vetting system. But, it’s hardly unusual.

    Arch, OA and others are already dancing on Obama’s grave but as yet he hasn’t so much as presented with the sniffles.

    While Jet (welcome back BTW) does seem to have been overly indulging in the Absinthe, it is, IMO, the rabid righties who are hyperventilating here. You are the ones who should be taking a breath and checking your meds.


  • Jet

    Thanks B for the even handed comment. It’s a good thing you printed it three times!

  • Jet


  • Jet

    from USA Today:

    The republicans are still bemoaning their demands for more tax cuts for the rich…

    The bill passed Friday with lawmakers largely voting along party lines, allowing Democratic leaders to deliver on their promise of clearing the legislation by mid-February.

    The Senate approved the measure 60-38 with three Republican moderates providing crucial support. Hours earlier, the House vote was 246-183, with all Republicans opposed to the package of tax cuts and federal spending that Obama has made the centerpiece of his plan for economic recovery.

    Obama “now has a bill to sign that will create millions of good-paying jobs and help families and businesses stay afloat financially,” said Sen. Max Baucus, a Democrat who was a leading architect of the measure.

    “It will shore up our schools and roads and bridges, and infuse cash into new sectors like green energy and technology that will sustain our economy for the long term,” he added in a statement.

    Despite Obama’s early bipartisan goals, Republican opposition was nearly unanimous to the $787 billion package. Conservatives in both houses have been relentless critics, arguing the plan is filled with wasteful spending and that greater tax cuts would be more effective in creating jobs.

  • Jet

    I’m beginning to suspect that Arch never turns his right turn signal off when he’s driving.

  • Strangely, I don’t see spending a trillion deficit dollars and plunging the nation into a depression as an accomplishment to be proud of.


  • Thanks for the warning, but I’m well aware of the atmosphere here. This thing reminds me of some of the obnoxious NY Yankee fans I know. It doesn’t matter to them what their players do,how outrageous their salaries are, what drugs they take (performance enhancing or mood altering), or what they’re being arrested for, investigated on or convicted of…

    They’re Yankees, and they will root for them regardless. They’re the home team, right or wrong. They don’t care about the integrity of the game, or what damage their behavior does to baseball. To many, being a Republican is akin to religion.

    What these GOPers in Congress are doing was supposed to be unspoken, but Rush Limbaugh opened his mouth, and exposed the GOP Campaign strategy for 2010 and 2012: which is hoping for The Failure of the American Economy.

    That’s right. Their hope is that the American people don’t recover. Their hope is that there is more wide-spread suffering, and double-digit unemployment. Their hope is that the Stimulus package, and every OTHER plan or policy the Obama Administration pursues fails.

    Fortunately, not ALL Republicans think this way.

    Gov. Charlie Crist said Friday the federal stimulus bill will bring tens of thousands of jobs to Florida and hopefully plug holes in the state budget.
    “Of the estimated $10 billion Florida will receive, about $1.3 billion is expected to go toward local and state transportation projects, Crist said. He said for every $1 billion spent on transportation, 28,000 jobs are created.

    “It’s all about jobs, jobs, jobs,” Crist said at a news conference.


  • Apparently, Governor Crist cares more about getting and keeping jobs for Floridians than reading RNC Talking Point memos attacking Obama. And he isn’t alone…

    Florida Governor Charlie Crist, who faces a $3.5 billion budget shortfall over the next two years, appeared with President Barack Obama on Monday to promote the bill.

    California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, Vermont Governor James Douglas and Connecticut Governor Jodi Rell also back it.

    Even Governors like Jindal aren’t going to turn down Stimulus money, despite grumbling about it for party appearances. He has a state to run as well.

    You see, many of these right wingers would see medicare and unemployment benefits cut for the hundreds of thousands of people who’ve lost jobs. They would see thousands of police, firemen, emergency workers and teachers laid off. They’d see services cut to the bone for the American people because THIS is what RNC strategy calls for–which is as much of an obscenity as cheering for the insurgents in Iraq, or the Taliban now that Obama is President.

    Come to think of it…

    “Insurgency, we understand perhaps a little bit more because of the Taliban”, (Republican Congressmen Pete) Sessions said during a meeting yesterday with Hotline editors. “And that is that they went about systematically understanding how to disrupt and change a person’s entire processes. And these Taliban — I’m not trying to say the Republican Party is the Taliban. No, that’s not what we’re saying. I’m saying an example of how you go about [sic] is to change a person from their messaging to their operations to their frontline message. And we need to understand that insurgency may be required when the other side, the House leadership, does not follow the same commands, which we entered the game with.”

  • Jet

    Of course you wouldn’t Dave, nor would you be proud of the idiot that got us into this mess in the first place.

    Did you think that his crisis just happened a couple of weeks ago?

    Desparate times call for desparate measures.

  • Jet

    Wasn’t it Bush who was in charge when billions went to banks and wall street fat cats so they could have their multimillion dollar bonuses before the voting public caught on?

  • Jet

    How about the billions that went into the Alqida’s(sic) pockets because Bush was too fixated on Iraq to pay attention to the heroine poppy fields that sprang up again after the Taliban left?

  • So Jet, because Bush made a huge mistake it makes it ok for Obama to repeat it? That makes no sense at all.

    We should repeal TARP, stop the current madness before it goes any farther and look for rational solutions. But fat chance of that.


  • Jet

    Sometimes you just have to have the balls to fight fire with fire Dave. If you have a better solution, why aren’t you in charge of the country?

    It takes a lot less courage to critisize the fire fighter instead of taking his place.

  • Jet

    You right-wing loud mouths need to put up or shut up, if you think you can do better, then call the white house with your more intelligent solutions, or would you geniuses rather let the country flounder in deeper and deeper depression for four years until you can prove to the country that your so fucking better than every other brain in existance and get elected.

    If you’re so damned arogantly sure of yourselves than step up to the plate and run the damned country yourselves instead of running your fool mouths off and acting so superior.


    Shit or get off the fucking pot!

  • Jet

    Anyone else?

  • Arch Conservative

    Your messiah won. The commies are in charge of both houses of congress.

    Why are you so angry?

    Do you really think that if you scream loud enough and often enough that you and your fellow Barry groupies can successfully stifle all those who would point out his very obvious character flaws and incompetencies?

    Despite the bitching and moaning of you and your ilk during the past eight years about how no one could speak out against Bush, which was an absolute horseshit assertion by the way, you and your reps in government want to show the world your true colors by silencing any and all dissent whether it be by using the Fascist doctrine to silence talk radio or by obnoxiuosly outposting those who disagree with you on a blog and telling everyone that they’re choices are to walk down the Obama primrose path with you or shut up.

    However Dave, AL, myself and millions of others have not bought into the mythology of Barry as our national savior. We will express our opinions of him and point out the deceit he engages in and the lies he tells each and every new whether you like it or not. We sure as hell don’t need your permission to speak about “the one” and yes we will laugh at you and ridicule your idiotic attempts to blame everything that Barry fails at or lies about on Bush.

    Based on what we’ve seen so far from Barry he has proven himself to be a complete fraud. A deceitful, snake oil salesman who is incapable of affecting any positive change for anyone but welfare deadbeats, illegals and jihadists. So we will be sharpening our knives and holding his feet to the fire every single day for the next four years.

    If you don’t like it Jet……


  • Paul

    Actually, the Republicans you write about actually DID win the election. Lest you forget, we live in a representative democracy that has a bicameral legislature. Those republicans are in that legislature precisely because they won THEIR elections. Do you seriously propose they turn their backs on the people and districts they represent just because other people won in other areas that have other ideas? As hard as I try, I can’t find an example of a Democrats doing that in the wholesale manner you suggest when they were solidly in the minority. The closest thing you could point to would be almost all of them voting for the war they so strongly oppose now, but they did that because their constituents told them to in great numbers (they practiced representative democracy). Its in the constitution – article 1 – look it up…

  • Arch Conservative

    Paul your post was entirely too logical and reasonable for such an ardent Obamabot as Jet comprehend and accept. For people like Jet, Chris Matthews, and that retard who works at MacDonalds who asked the question at the press conference last week the ONLY thing that matters is what Barry wants to do. After all, he is “the one.”

  • Jet

    That has to be the most pathetic attempt at distraction I’ve seen yet. Good for you Arch.

    A-Obama is not my or anyone else’s Mesiah

    B-No one on the planet except maybe you is dumb enough to believe there are any Communists in Congress.

    C-Let’s talk about your character flaws and incompetencies. The only thing you have going for yourself (if that) is a big mouth with no brain attached to it. You’re more entertainment than intellect around here and you seem to be the only one who doesn’t know it. You’re the smartass in the back of the classroom whose convinced that if you make enough loud and funny remarks no one will realize you don’t know anything, except how to be this website’s “class clown” and with very very very few exceptions, no one with a brain respects any opinion you can type out with two fingers (unless one’s in your nose)

    D-Unlike you, I’ve never claimed to have the solution to any political problem, nor would I presume to act smarter than any politician that’s in Washington. I can and do admit when I’m wrong. If I had the answers, I’d be in D.C. running things instead of here listening to you make a fool of yourself, or anyone else for that matter trying to say they could do any better… because in the end you can’t Bing and you’re not only too arogant to admit it, but you deluded yourself into thinking half the world agrees with you.

    E-Quote: “based on what we see”??? who-what we, is that the royal we, do you presume to speak for everyone now? Like others on this website sooner or later you’re going to wake up to the realization that just because you pronounce something or someone a lie/liar fraud incompetetant etc doesn’t make it so, and only reduces what little credibility you have here (if any)

    Perhaps that’s why you’ve been banned so many times from BC?

    Somewhere in that lame brain of yours is an intellect that is not only respectable, but usable.

    …too bad you only seem to be able to use it as a website’s class clown. Write your own damned articles with your own name on them, or comment here with your own name on it, and let others tear you down if you have the balls.

    Better yet as I’ve challenged others to do:

    Go to Washington and tell them what they’re doing wrong if you’re so damned sure of yourself, or become a frequent guest on Rush Limbaugh and show him what a wimp you think he his. I shudder to think what kind of world this would be if you were in charge, and I sure’s hell don’t want the job.

    Talking about it like you’re lord high God of truth only makes you and others here look more like a fool than your already do.

    …but of course that’s only my opinion!

    ~J e t – G a r d n e r~

  • Jet

    Typical Paul, because a whole district went Republican, along with a few others, the DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY must bend to their will and their stupidity rather than excersize MAJORITY rule.

    Where was that logic when the Democrats had the minority in both houses? Were you bellyaching about them not being represented because they didn’t vote with the Republican majority?

    I didn’t think so
    That’s called being a hypocrite Paul, does Arch have his arm up your ass moving your mouth for you?

  • Jet

    I read every word of #52 Arch, let’s see how well you do getting through #55… I’ll laugh at that.

  • Paul

    Jet, you need to take a breath. I wasn’t proposing that democrats do what republicans tell them to. I just was answering the point that was made, that republicans shouldn’t oppose the democrats because democrats won the election. Republicans have a right to put forward their ideas, and they did that. Your side seems to suggest that they shouldn’t do that and merely go along blindly with the democrats. Seriously Jet, keep up with the arguments.

  • Jet

    Sorry Paul, I was pissed at a speech some idiot congressman gave last night about how his district wasn’t being represented properly because the Democratic Majority wouldn’t let him properly speak for them and make a fool out of himself.

    I was wrong to take it out on you.

  • Arch Conservative

    Well since anyone that does a modest amount of research on this website into past posts can easily discover that I have been much more critical of Bush and the GOP than you or anyone else currently trumpeting Obama’s “grand victory” in getting this spending bill passed has ever been of Obama or the Democrats in Congress it is plain to see who is lacking in the intellect and objectivity departments.

    And seeing as how I actually voted for a third party candidate this past election instead of cheerleading for one of the hapless shills from the two major parties that have BOTH played major roles in sinking us into the economic morass that we are now in and pretending that the other side is completely to blame I’d say maybe it’s you that needs to climb down off your high horse Jet.

    You can spin it all you want and use a never ending litany of flowery language to describe your newfound hero Barry but the simple truth is that you, along with everyone who voted for McCain, voted for the status quo last November.


  • Let the above comment stand as an example of proper conduct for everyone on this site. Let’s all have the guts to admit it when proven wrong, and we might yet generate a useful discussion now and then.

  • Jet

    Fact: wasting your vote on a 3rd party candidate in such an important election is really stupid.

    I’m so proud of you Arch, and the fact that you’re so proud of it speaks volumes

  • Jet

    Congrats Arch, you have a disciple!

  • Arch Conservative

    Fact: Neither Obama or McCain posesses the will or the ability to make this nation a better place to live for a majority of Americans.

  • Jet

    Bush wasn’t mentioned once in #55 Arch, put your glasses on old man.

  • Arch Conservative

    One disciple is a good start. Now if I can come up with a catchy mantra like “hope,” “change” or “yes we can,” I too can hoodwink millions of dupes.

  • Jet

    Or you could change your “handle” to “just two men”

  • Jet

    I’d follow Rush Limbaugh, George Bush, or even John McCain through the gates of hell if they asked me to before I took one or your platitudes seriously Arch.

  • Jet,

    You’re getting hot-headed. My remark (#61) was directed at you. Arch’s wasn’t on the board yet when I posted it.

  • Jet

    kudos and apologies Roger, I was wrong, which is expressed with no sarcasm, just sincerity.

  • No problemo, Jet. Just don’t won’t to be pegged wrong.

  • Jet

    You know they say that divorce is eminent when the couple stops fighting-it means neither cares enough to defend their views on anything important.

    I guess when I stop caring about something, I’ll shut up.

  • Jet

    Oooops, Chris Matthews’ show is on NBC in five minutes, I’ve never seen him, but I guess now I’ll have to see what all the hubbub is about.

    Later kids

  • Jet

    The democrats passed the biggest tax-cut in American history without republican backing or support??? I must’ve heard that wrong!

  • Cindy

    All this chaos is interesting in its potential meaning. But not that interesting as a steady diet.

    Roger, did you submit your article yet? Since I am working at the computer most of the day again, I might have something to look forward to in my continual desire to escape from my boring work.

  • Jet

    One of the most important things I’ve ever learned Cindy, is that an intelligent person is never bored.

    Don’t let me down now beautiful! ;0

  • Jet

    Oh, sorry, that should be ;D

  • Cindy


    Hey Jet is that true? Dems passed a tax-cut?

  • Jet

    The biggest one in history sweetie, the biggest one in history!

  • Cindy (#75),

    Yes, I did; Dave asked for a correction, and I did that, too. So it should show up today.
    Don’t have great expectations, however. All I’m doing there is contemplating the possibilities. It’s not about to set the world on fire.

  • Cindy

    You know they say that divorce is eminent when the couple stops fighting-it means neither cares enough to defend their views on anything important.

    Well, I think my problem is I have no fights at home. Everything is always peachy.

    That is why I need to come here and fight with Roger, Jet.

    I think Roger is worth fighting for! He is coming around I think…I see some fire in him!

    Now he has two of us to fight with! Poor Roger 🙂

  • I’m going through the separation phase.

  • I’s been a while for me and I was reading the comments and I just couldn’t get past one Jet made about Obama not being able to go through every page of the new Treas sec’s job application. One would think that if you were nominating a guy for the job of running the IRS one of the first questions you might ask him would be if he ever cheated on his taxes. But, that’s just me…

    Jet, Obama may not have gone out and specifically looked for tax cheats like Geightner and Daschle and Richards, but he sure found them! And after he did, he told us to just ignore it. “He’s the guy we need!” he said. He sure showed that the other day on TV didn’t he?! Like they said, no wonder dems don’t mind raising taxes, they never pay them anyway!

    Wasn’t there a big stink made during the election phase of this mess about the vetting process of one of the candidates? Aren’t we supposed to learn from ours and others mistakes?

    I heard Sam Donaldson say on TV this morning that by voting no on this stimulus package it’s basically doing nothing.

    Someone please tell me how saving some mouse in San Fransisco is stimulating the economy? No pork, but what do you call mouse loin anyway?

    It’s my personal opinion that this won’t work and in two years the make up of congress will be a little different than it is right now. Then we’ll see how Obama does in his last two years trying to work across party lines.

    The dems own this thing. If it works then god help us all, who know’s where we go from here. How socialist can you become and still be allowed call yourself a representative democracy?

    Have a nice day!

  • Arch and other “Barry” haters really have nothing to base their hatred on. They simply dismiss him as “another crooked Chicago politician” based on nothing.

    I’ve no doubt that Obama has and will make mistakes. He is only human, afterall.

    Conservative “God,” Reagan fucked up, badly and often – at least when he was awake. Cons repeatedly prostrate themselves and kiss Ronnie’s proverbial feet when his most laudable accomplishment was to temporarily bolster the jelly bean industry. Otherwise, he was simply a really bad actor with improbable hair. (Oh, I’m forgetting that he single handedly brought down the evil Soviet empire. What a guy!)

    What his detractors can’t seem to handle or even fathom is that Obama is most likely the most intelligent and thoughtful president – ever. Cons don’t care for “thinkers.” They prefer the “shoot from the hip – scatter gun” brand of politics. They understand that just a bit of thought reveals the conservative POV is basically aimed at maintaining the oligarchy of the rich.


  • Jet

    Andy, what percent of the god-damned bill are you mousepicking about; .000000000000011007% of the total cash outlay.

    Do you realize how damned petty that sounds?

    If you have a better bill, if you have a better solution to this crisis, why the hell haven’t YOU submitted it to congress or the President?

    It’s easy to be the monday-morning quarterback
    it’s hard to actually have to play the game.

    Am I going to have to destroy virtually every friendship on this website to slam that point across.

    You’re all so god-damned eager to critisize, but not one of you wants to ACTUALLY do something about it… or for that matter present a MORE WORKABLE SOLUTION than what’s being used.

    put up or shut up,
    or just keep childishly whine about mice.


  • I did Jet. Like most of the good ideas, it got thrown in the shit can!

    That would be the better solution, but nobody wanted ot hear it! Leave shit like saving mice in San Fran for another time! It’s one little piece of a bill piled full of bullshit! Pointed out because it’s one of the most ridiculous.

    The real question is, why did it have to be there? They just couldn’t help themsleves! None of them. They’re all idiots!

    Or better yet, I’m sure there were plenty of other ideas floating around the house and senate, but these assholes, all of them, had to put all that crack, yeah, it’s gotta be crack, because these morons are addicted to it, in what’s supposed to be a stimulus package. How many bridges to nowhere are we gonna build?

    And I’m not Monday morning QBing. I was against the first bailout. I’m against all bailouts. I think that people that are in houses they can’t afford to be in shouldn’t be in them. I think that banks that lent them that money and are tanking should be allowed to tank. I think if Detroit can’t make cars that people want to buy then they should be allowed to tank too. I think if you cheat on your taxes you shouldn’t be allowed to run the IRS. And I don’t give a rats ass about some SF swamp mouse!

    I’m silly like that, what can I say.

  • Jet

    Baritone, you have a lot of nerve making sense here-you haven’t had your coffee yet; have you?

  • Jet

    I came home too soon from that heart operation Andy, maybe I’m the idiot here for not obsessing over mice, as opposed to the 90% of the bill that’s going to so some good for us.

    I just don’t get it; I’m too damned stupid to figure it out I guess.

    We should go back to the Republican plan of giving the stimulous money to the Corporate CEOs and watching it trickle down…

    …into their pockets and off-shore bank accounts… that is what happened to TARP isn’t it?

    I’m a fool for not realizing that.

    Forgive me?

  • “Cons don’t care for ‘thinkers.’ They prefer the ‘shoot from the hip – scatter gun’ brand of politics. They understand that just a bit of thought reveals the conservative POV is basically aimed at maintaining the oligarchy of the rich.”

    Well, there are notable exceptions: Edmund Burke, the good old William F. Buckley, William Rusher, George Will. But I bet if anyone of ’em got the whiff of what passes for cogent argument or halfway intelligent thought from the mouths of their so-called supporters on these threads, they’d be ashamed of themselves for having been even partly responsible for the conservative movement.

  • Cindy

    The real question is, why did it have to be there? They just couldn’t help themsleves! None of them. They’re all idiots!

    It had to be there as A) a concession to someone or, B) someone figured their own project could be slipped in.

    I think that covers the reason any things are tacked on to legislation, no?

  • Cindy

    Oh and yeah, they’re all idiots. I agree.

  • Arch Conservative

    It’s not even been a month and Jet’s panties have already become unbunchable because a bunch of evil souls who aren’t on the Barry bandwagon have had the audacity to point out what is suspect about the current administration.

    First is the idea that “the one” is OK with having a tax cheat head up the treasury. Yeah Barry said it was a mistake but Geitnhers’s still a tax cheat and he’s still the treasury secretary is he not? So Jet I guess if someone fucked your wife (or significant other, partner whatever you call it) then apologized to you for it but kept right on doing it you’d be fine with it right? That’s the very same logic you’ve applied the Geithner situation.

    Then there’s Jet’s assertion that anyone who isn’t lauding this spending bill as a great victory for all Americans and giving Barry all the credit is being unjustly critical for no good reason. We should all just do as Jet says……shut up, accept it and kiss Barry’s ass. Yes the economy is bad…….we should just spend a trillion dollars without taking even five minutes to examine what the ramifications of doing so might be. Barry’s will be done. That is your first commandment isn’t it Jet?

    I’m not an economist Jet………I’m not a surgeon either but I don’t have to be to be a surgeon to know that while I need a liver transplant and I don’t know the first thing about transplanting a liver, I do know that taking a claw hammer to the general area is not the answer.

    Oh and as for you Btone……….

    “Cons don’t care for “thinkers”

    You’re kidding right?

    It you’s moonbat liberals that inject emotion at the expense of the facts into every situation.

    Every time some bogus lawsuit is filed because someone’s feelings got hurt by another party it’s always the fruitcake liberals cheering that person on.

  • Clavos

    It had to be there as A) a concession to someone or, B) someone figured their own project could be slipped in.

    Once again, Cindy, with excellent perception, gets right to the core.

    Props again, lady!

  • bliffle

    Perhaps this statement by Archie can explain why he is so consistently wide of the mark:

    “I don’t see what all the hoopla is about. The Dems didn’t need the repubs to pass this massive spending bill. They voted for it almost across the board as the gop voted against it almost across the board.”

    Apparently, to Archie these political matters are about a sort of cockfight between the dems and reps, and not about finding the best policy for the american public.

    This notion seems to be echoed in all his posts: dems vs. reps.

    And it’s clear which side he’s on.

    But Archie is wrong: there is more at stake here than whether the dems or reps prevail. Our fortunes, our very futures depend on what happens in DC.

    Is Archie so trivial that he really believes that all that matters in DC is who WINS these battles?

  • zingzing

    i read something a few days ago about how our current situation mirrors the japanese economy of the 1990s. the reasons for the decline and the way in which we have responded so far are the same. the government tried bailouts and tax breaks, but it never got to the root of the problem.

    of course, the way out was for those banks with bad debt to eat that bad debt. that meant that some banks failed, and that their investors were wiped out. thousands of jobs and trillions of yen were lost. but so was the bad debt.

    the longer we try and bail these banks out, the more it’s going to cost us in the end. we’ve already been avoiding harsh realities for 18 months. if this bailout doesn’t have nearly immediate, miracle-like results, then it’s time to bite the bullet and let those banks and businesses that are failing to just go ahead and fail.

  • zing (re your #95)

    You should read Kenn Jacobine’s piece and some of the thread. He does get into it – precisely the point you’re raising.

    In a sense, it’s an eye-opener.

  • Cindy

    (gotta luv Clav)

    …in a purely platonic way, of course (wouldn’t want anyone getting any wrong ideas)

  • Jet

    Oh cool the class clown’s back, still moving your lips trying to read #55? Nowhere did I ever advocate kissing Pres. Obama’s ass, you really should talk to someone about those fantasies Bing.

  • Jet

    #94, good point Blif, but I doubt he read down that far… pity.

  • Clavos

    Apparently, to Archie these political matters are about a sort of cockfight between the dems and reps, and not about finding the best policy for the american public.

    True, but then the “cockfight” is all the pols care about, too.

  • Jet

    The mice Zing, you forgot the Mice! Andy will be so disappointed. 🙁

  • Jet

    Dear god????? How the hell did we hit 100 comments and still stay on subject?

  • Arch Conservative

    Well bliffle I don’t know if it was intentional or not but somehow you missed the post where I stated that it is my belief that BOTH parties are responsible for getting us into this mess and that is why I voted for a third party candidate in the election.

    “But Archie is wrong: there is more at stake here than whether the dems or reps prevail. Our fortunes, our very futures depend on what happens in DC.”

    I contend that I know this better than you, Jet or anyone else condescending to me. Anyone with even an ounce of objectivity who has paid atention to politics in this nation during the past ten year’s must admit that both sides, when they find themselves in power, are more interested in making the other side look bad while seeking praise and adulation for themselves than they are in being honest and putting the American people first.

    For as much as you want to paint me as some rightwing nut…….I am capable of, and in fact have on numerous occasions, critisized Bush and the GOP. The same cannot be said of people like Jet. All his feeble mind can muster is to always laud Democrats and liberals while always bashing Republicans and conservatives. His piehole never stops yapping yet he has no objectivity at all and I am the one who cannot find the mark?

    While Jet and probably you too were waving you little Obama flags and chanting “change we can believe in’ last fall I actually put my money where my mouth was an rejected my own party to support real change by voting for Chuck Baldwin. So I don’t need you or Jet or any other water carrying hack with their head up Barry’s ass lecturing me on what’s really going on in the world.

  • Jet, you’ll notice when I listed the REPUBLICAN Governors who support the Stimulus bill, these right wingers had absolutely nothing to say?

    Of course they don’t.

    The RNC strategy for re-election in 2010 is for the American Economy to FAIL. That some Republican Governors actually want to HELP the citizens of their states is blasphemy. Listen to the rhetoric, and remember my “Yankees” analogy above:

    “I don’t think he’s helped any national Republican ambitions he may have by stepping up to the plate and batting for the other team. … There’s a difference between working in a bipartisan way for the common good and switching sides and putting on the other team’s jersey,” said veteran Republican consultant Alex Castellanos. “At the one moment when we’ve finally found our voice and remember who we are as Republicans, Charlie Crist forgets. It’s stunning.”

    “They may not be saying it outright, but the Republican delegation is very angry. If they got Charlie Crist in a dark alley, all you’d have left is a tuft of white hair,” said Ana Navarro, a Republican consultant from Miami, suggesting Crist has dampened enthusiasm for a potential Senate run in 2010.

    Jet, these right wingers have ZERO credibility on government spending and debt. Not after Bush and Reagan, where obscene military spending for killing brown people (Central America and Iraq) and scaring Communists (Star Wars) and unprecedented tax cuts for the rich exploded both the deficit and the national debt.

    Again, why does REPUBLICAN Governor Charlie Crist back the stimulus?

    “My concern is not about what’s best for one party or the other. My concern is what’s best for the state and what’s best for the people of Florida,” he said Thursday, when he invited a mostly Democratic group of African-American legislators to the Governor’s Mansion to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the NAACP and the 200th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln’s birth.

    “This is our president, and I wanted to show support for what he’s trying to do, to help our students in the classroom, the most vulnerable in our society who deserve health care and the infrastructure benefit that this will bring about,” Crist said.

    Hear hear, Mr. Governor.


  • Arch Conservative

    Sounds to me like Crist’s true concern is to do whatever he can to bolster his chances of becoming an Obama lapdog in some cabinet position that provides Obama the opportunity to appear as if he actually gives a damn what the GOP thinks and provides Crist the opportunity not to have to think for himself for the next four years.

  • “both sides, when they find themselves in power, are more interested in making the other side look bad while seeking praise and adulation for themselves than they are in being honest and putting the American people first.”

    I must agree with Arch on this one. Such has been our collective experience for at least three or four decades, longer perhaps.

  • Jet

    He’s still bragging about wasting his vote on that 3rd party candidate! Sorta like a soldier bragging about shooting himself in the foot to Maj. Frank Burns.

    Someone who named himself Arch Conservative is bitching about other’s supposed objectivity? cough cough gag giggle.

    Um how many times have I admitted I was wrong in the last three hours? Oh right, I’m seeking praise and admiration for myself… silly me I forgot.

    Bing, you forgot that article I published severly critisizing Obama? Selective amnesia?

    Again, BingoBoy you’ve got to seek help about those fantasies of yours… head up Barry’s ass? That going to require a lot of KY!

    Odd, no one seems to be quoting you on the floor of the House or the Senate yet Arch, they still don’t know what a superior political genious you are? Maybe we should all stop right this minute and e-mail our congressmen.

    The class clown, all steam, no substance.

    When’s that article comeing out Bing, the Washington Post, New York Times, Fox News and CNN are waiting!

    Since you don’t seem to understand me, I’ll try your speaking to you in your own language Arch…


  • Jet

    Well I can’t argue with that Cobra and I’m dumbfounded on how to add to it too. Good job!

  • “I don’t think he’s helped any national Republican ambitions he may have by stepping up to the plate and batting for the other team. … There’s a difference between working in a bipartisan way for the common good and switching sides and putting on the other team’s jersey,” said veteran Republican consultant Alex Castellanos. “At the one moment when we’ve finally found our voice and remember who we are as Republicans, Charlie Crist forgets. It’s stunning.”

    Now, that is very telling Cobra. Great quote!

  • Arch Conservative

    It’s odd that you voted for and support a man who’s mantra was “change” yet you ridicule me for actually using my vote to support something different Jet.

  • Jet

    From the John Birch Society website…

    Chuck Baldwin is founder and Pastor of Crossroad Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida. In 2008, he was the Constitution Party candidate for President of the United States. He is the author of two books and the host of the hard-hitting radio talk show Chuck Baldwin Live.

    I admit it, I was wrong again Arch, you can’t get much more center of the road than that! I’m sorry I implied he was anywhere near right-wing…

  • Jet

    I couldn’t have timed that better if I’d tried!

  • Arch Conservative

    He also hasn’t been in Washington for the past twenty years fucking everything up like all those you expect to solve our economic problems.

  • Jet

    But Arch, we idiots expect YOU to solve our economic problems. Well? Get to work, we’ll call congress and the White House that you’re on your way.

    Obama’s supposed to be in Denver from Chicago until tuesday night, so you can sneak right in. I bet a bunch of your supporters (?) here could dress up as Secret Service agents and get you right into the oval office without anyone noticing a slight difference in appearance until it was too late!

    but of course that’s only my opinion!

    ~J e t – G a r d n e r~

  • Arch Conservative

    No….you idiots expect the government or someone else….anybody but yourself to solve all your problems.

    Everyone’s a victim of our evil, uncaring capitalist society right Jet.

  • Jet

    But your’s is the superior intellect Arch! You have all the answers to impart to our foolish leaders!

  • Arch Conservative

    Me? You’re the one calling this spending bill a great victory for Obama and America when you don’t have the slightest clue how it’s going to turn out.

  • Jet

    OH GOD, Arch, you’ve caught me being stupid AGAIN!!! I’m so ashamed

  • Jet – to your comment #88…let’s hope it does. Just be advised, I’ll only believe it when I see it.

    And for the record, you can keep harping on it, like you tend to do, but you know full fucking well, that the mice aren’t the full story here. And pulling one line from a comment, like you and yours tend to do and ripping it apart, all the while, ignoring everything else in the comment because it’s the one line that apparently really bothers you is bullshit too.

    Of everything I’ve “added” to this conversation if all you can find fault in is my comment about Nancy’s mice, then I say I’ve made some pretty good points! Let’s talk about the tax cheat treasury secretary, let’s talk about the tax cheat, the one taking the kickbacks from the health industry, that was almost the next health and human services secretary…let’s talk about how they, the pols that is, the ones in the majority right now that is, promised to post the stimulus bill on line so the people could see it and then reneged on it…I call it “change I’m not seeing”. Business as usual at the capitol.

    I heard another analogy this morning, again from the idiot known as Sam Donaldson. He said, say your Indiana Jones and the bolder is heading toward you, everyone wants to go right, but you want to go left. Do you just stand there? And that’s how he ended it.

    My answer, no, you don’t just stand there, if you’re sure you think you know which way is right, then you go that way. And if you happen to be right, then I guess we can all monday morning QB about who made the right choice. You don’t just follow the crowd. Crowds have known to do some really stupid things en masse, haven’t they?

    I personally believe that the stimulus bill is one of those stupid en masse things.

    Have a nice day…

  • I absolutely disagree with Jet that the Republicans should just “get in line” behind the president’s proposals. It’s not going to happen, and it shouldn’t.

    I found a lot of the GOP rhetoric about the stimulus bill, both in Congress and on this web site, to be dishonest, misleading, and vastly overstated. But any spending bill of that size would get a similar reaction.

    But I think now that all the players followed their appointed script regarding the stimulus bill, we will see other issues play out differently. [Obama had to win this bill, and win it quickly, and he did.]

    Two Republicans on George Stephanopoulos’s show this morning, Lindsey Graham and Peter King, actually came across as more in favor of radical action, including nationalization, for the banking system, than the Dem guests [Charles Schumer and Maxine Waters].

    It’s an easy populist applause line to say of the banks, Let them fail! No more bailouts!

    But without a working banking system/credit market, we are so screwed. And it will take a huge government intervention to make that system work again.

    And you’ll see some Republicans working with Obama on such a plan.

    I expect the Know-Nothings on here to shout it down. Hopefully with the same success they had with shouting down Tarp I and the stimulus bill.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Arch –

    When the Republicans pushed through massive tax cuts starting in the Reagan administration, did they know how it would turn out?

    They thought they did, and they claimed then AS NOW that tax cuts are the cure for all that ails us.

    Never mind that tax cuts without an equal amount of cuts in government spending equals disaster. Three Republican administrations who pushed through huge tax cuts got us into the Great Depression, and Reagan/Bush 41/fiscal-conservative Clinton/Bush 43 tax policy got us into this one.

    The proof? Massive tax cuts…and “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter”, as Dick Cheney said.

    AND WHEN WAS THE BEST ECONOMY AMERICA HAD? Probably the fifties…and if you’ll check, the top marginal tax rate was over 90%…even throughout the Eisenhower administration. By doing that, we were able to pay off the crushing debt left from WWII, and become the greatest creditor nation in the world.

    IF YOUR BELIEF THAT HIGH TAXES FOR THE RICH are a recipe for disaster, then such would SURELY have happened when the rich were being taxed at over 90%. But it didn’t work out that way, huh?

    Wanna be patriotic? Then decide using the facts. To continue to support the conservatives’ failed fiscal policies…is not good for America. It is NOT patriotic.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    handyguy #120- well said!

  • Arch Conservative

    Handy…it’s not that those opposed to the bill in it’s current form are opposed to any and all spending to help “stimulate” the economy. It’s more the political payback and pet projects that will not help that are included in this bill that they are opposed to.

    Just some examples…….

    50 million for the national endowment for the arts……..

    650 million for coupons to switch to digital tv

    600 million to update federal government autos to more fuel efficient models

    300 million for “Violence Against Women Prevention and Prosecution Programs”

    2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstrations

    50 million for Health and Human Services to carry out injury prevention programs

    I could go on and on……

    The point is that these things, while costing billions, are not going to create jobs or stimulate the economy in any direct meaningful way and should not be part of any economic recovery plan.

  • “650 million for coupons to switch to digital tv”

    Now, this is ridiculous. They want to perpetuate a generation of idiots – no other way of accounting for this stupidity.

  • Arch Conservative

    Tell that to the Democrats that drafted it into the bill Roger.

  • I can’t argue with you on that one, Arch. And I don’t see how anyone can defend this nonsense.

  • Arch Conservative

    Oh I’m sure Jet will attempt to.

    It seems as if his first rule of thumb is not to weigh the merits of an issue but just to oppose whatever I say.

    For someone that claims I’m a clown to be ignored he sure spends an awful lot of time responding to me.

  • The original $1.3 billion TV coupon program, which was passed by the Bush administration, ran out of money, so the government was unable to fulfill the number of requests it got. It’s easy to make fun of, but the millions of Americans it benefits are among the poorest.

    $650 million buys a lot of cars. I presume American cars. Which someone has to make. The cost is offset [a little] by using less fuel, with the additional benefit of less pollution.

    None of the items in the stimulus bill is as frivolous as some critics pretend. And most of the ones that can be easily misrepresented as frivolous make up only a tiny fraction of the bill. The larger items are harder to send out distorted press releases about.

  • Well, a TV coupon program is a stupid idea – no matter who had started it. I don’t see how it would benefit the poor to perpetuate the idea that sitting in front of TV constitutes a good lifestyle or provides any kind of encouragement for a person to try to better themselves. It’s just plain pandering, nothing more.

  • I disagree, Roger. The coupon program affects people with older TVs who don’t have cable. That population skews elderly and poor.

    Without help, they would not just have less TV. They would have none at all. Zip. It may be easy for you to make a pseudo-intellectual joke out of that, but it would be a hardship. And it would be involuntary.

    And hey, I would hate to do without television. Lots of great stuff on: News. PBS documentaries. Friday Night Lights. Battlestar Galactica.

  • Arch’s laundry list is pretty much all the things that cons always oppose – their whipping boys.

    The very first one – the NEA appropriation. First, and again, 50 mil is a drop in the bucket.

    The manner in which cons dismiss the NEA galls my ass. Approximately 7% of our population makes their living in the arts. Arts organizations across the country are feeling the heat like everybody else.

    Many museums, orchestral, dance, opera and theatrical organizations have been forced to fold completely. Others have been forced to curtail events and performances. Many have been forced to reduce both performers and support staff.

    I realize that most cons don’t give a rat’s ass about the arts. In their limited and oft demented perspective, the “arts” are about nothing more Robert Maplethorpe and urine soaked crucifixes. Well, they ain’t.

    When it comes down to it, people who work in the arts have the same stake in the future of this country and deserve, perhaps no more, but certainly no less consideration when it comes to government assistance.

    Continuing on another note, had the government allowed the banks, wall street firms, auto makers and in-trouble homeowners to fail – all in some self-righteous notion of capitalist ideology – we would indeed be in duck soup. The blind belief that pure capitalism is the be all and end all – that simply letting the markets decide what will survive and what will not is absurd and destined to failure.

    We have seen in 8 short years the effect of backing away from government oversite. To believe that the private sector will always or even occasionally be honest and fair is idiocy. It is human nature to take the biggest piece of the pie (or the whole fucking pie, for that matter,) when no one is watching.

    The extreme deficit spending that the government is about to extend is troubling and will no doubt be around to haunt us, our children and our grand children. As bad as it is, there is really no viable alternative that will turn the economy out of its downward spiral. The Bush tax cuts did little or nothing to stop this disaster. There is no reason to believe that they will do anything substantive in turning things around now.

    The cons essentially dropped this load of shit in Obama’s lap, and now they rail against him and his administration accosting him for not bending to their will. The cons gave us this cluster fuck. Their insistence that their’s is the only correct path to salvation is pure bullshit.


  • Hope and Change?

    Facism…Alive and well in America..

    Statements like this prove that the US has been taken over by left wing loon facists..”they shut up and get with the majority’s decisions”

    But wait a minute…say we go along with these facist assholes and use their own logic…

    – The overwhelming majority in the US belive that homesexuals are deviants -hmmm make it illegal and lock them up????,

    – Affirmative action is racists- well King Barry wouldnt have been elected…

    -Marraige is between a man and women….unull all current gay marraiges..

    More proof tha Liberalism is a SEVERE MENTAL disorder..

  • I’m sorry, Handy, but I am not a bleeding heart liberal. And I don’t think it was a pseudo-intellectual joke. I meant it in earnest. There may be some validity to what you’re saying, but we all have to be willing to look facts squarely in the face and admit excesses if excesses is what we see – regardless who perpetrates them.

    The kind of crisis we’re facing goes beyond these niceties. In my humble opinion.

  • Hope and Change?

    As the economy tanks and American get laid off by the thousands…King Barry takes a vacation…gee thats real leadership….

    After pushing Congress for weeks to hurry up and pass the massive $787 billion stimulus bill, President Obama promptly took off for a three-day holiday getaway.

    Gee Hope and Change is starting to look like Hitlers Germany

  • Hope and Change?

    Roger…please show me where in the constitution that TV is a right?

    Whats next coupons for WII and XBOX?

  • I agree, H&C. And to argue for it under the circumstances trivializes the whole thing. I want no part of it.

  • Hope and Change?

    Hey Dumb…I mean Democrat supporters how can explain this in the scamulus package…

    $198 million to 18,000 Filipino will receive up to $15,000.

    Hope and change…”only fools believe”

  • Cindy


    Could you explain what “bleeding heart liberal” means in your terms.

    (not arguing here, or being a smart-ass. just trying to understand your meaning, as you mentioned that once before.)


  • The element of the argument that I left out is that the involuntary cut-off of access to TV signals is the result of government action – mandating all-digital TV by a certain date. Thus the attempt at a government solution.

    The reason for the mandatory switch to all-digital, according to a government web site:

    “An important benefit of the switch to all-digital broadcasting is that it will free up parts of the valuable broadcast spectrum for public safety communications such as police, fire departments, and rescue squads. Also, some of the spectrum will be auctioned to companies that will be able to provide consumers with more advanced wireless services (such as wireless broadband).”

  • Ted

    Obama’s stealing the census from Congress has suddenly awakened and enraged the Republicans. Maybe this will arouse them as well to challenge Obama for stealing the Presidency itself. They surely know he is not an Article 2 “natural born citizen” (which is more than merely being a 14th Amendment “citizen”) by virtue of either Obama’s birth to a dad of Kenyan/British citizenship or birth in Kenya itself — as manifested by his unwillingness to supply his long form birth certificate now under seal.

  • bliffle

    Actually, the TV conversion coupon program is not just a stupid idea someone had, it is part of the cost of spectrum re-allocation that the FCC laid out several years ago, and which has been confirmed by successive administrations. The $650million is pretty small compared to the huge commercial and civic benefits that proceed from spectrum re-allocation, and it is small compared to the investments and costs that commercial broadcasters are eagerly embracing to expand their markets.

    The $650million is easily offset by increased usage fees and taxes that the USA will reap (and is reaping right now) from better exploitation of the RF spectrum.

    the $650million is a very small part of a big investment in improved communications that will affect every part of US civil, commercial and private life. For example, lives will be saved by more effective 911 communications calls.

    We only notice this $650million because we see it on the ‘outgo’ side of the ledger now, but the USA has already received fees in excess on the ‘income’ side of the ledger. And there have been many more ‘outgo’ and ‘income’ items in the last 5 years of the coupon program: this isn’t something new.

    Don’t be surprised if this number goes up to $1.3billion in the future, since the estimates I’ve seen the last couple years suggest that number. I suspect the politicians are trying to minimize the bite by splitting it up. Non-recurring expenses like this get special treatment in the Federal budget so they don’t appear to contribute to deficits (a technique mastered by the previous administration and congress to hide massive expenses, which, lamentably looks like it will become a permanent part of governments incorrigible avoidance of responsibility).

    The FCC charter says that it must operate the airwaves on behalf of the American people, thus it CANNOT abandon a broadcast model arbitrarily without providing a migration path for existing users. When FM radio was introduced it could co-exist with AM radio. When TV was introduced it could co-exist with radio. Color TV was carefully designed to be upward compatible with B/W. Stereo FM was the same.

    The only alternative to subsidizing analog TV users would be to surrender the new spectrum utilization that is being allocated.

    Please notice that the converters are NOT necessitated by the advent of Digital TV (DTV), which many of us have been watching exclusively for many years now (since DTV co-exists quite happily with all other spectrum uses), but rather by the requirement to terminate analog TV to re-allocate spectrum to other uses.

    In any case, there will be some small number of analog TV broadcasters that survive the cutoff. I believe there are some religious broadcasters who have successfully made hardship cases.

  • Hope and Change?

    Ted…whats wrong with you? Everyone knows that in the US people of African dissent are not held to the same standards as whites or asians…

    King Barry…proof affirmative action doesnt work!

  • bliffle

    Roger displays some unusual foolishness:

    “#136 — Roger

    I agree, H&C….”

    You should know better, Roger. H&C’s ignorance is fathomless.

  • Clavos

    $650 million buys a lot of cars. I presume American cars.

    Actually, handy, unless the requirement to “buy American” is built into the legislation (and I don’t know if it is), not necessarily. For example, here in Florida, state, county and municipal governments have been buying hundreds of Priuses for years now.

  • If Ted has arrived, can the rest of the Loony Brigade be far behind? When the fringe right runs short on actual arguments, it substitutes paranoid conspiracy nonsense.

    And, H&C, you said ‘dissent’ when it appears you meant ‘descent.’ Not that you ever allowed spelling or grammar to stand in the way of your need to express yourself, however feebly. The sentence and your ‘argument’ make no sense even correctly spelled, of course. But don’t let that stop you.

  • Hope and Change?

    Hankyguy thanks for correcting my typos!

  • Well, Priuses are pretty cool. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the Feds buy a bunch of Chevy Malibu hybrids and Ford Escape hybrids.

    That would be an example where “Buy American” might not be a dumb idea. Most of the time, however, it would be bad policy. I think it got removed from the bill, but I actually am not sure.

  • Hope and Change?

    Why didnt Barrys Scamulus plan include paying Filipinos the $15,000 to pull government employees in ricshaws?

    Real greem job creation!

    Hope and Change = Dopes and Idiots

  • Well, Bliffle; re #144:

    I admit I wasn’t aware of the complexity of the issue- but the question still remains that to talk about it in the same breath as about, or it being part & parcel of, the stimulus package just doesn’t make great sense to me. And no, I am not in the habit of reading the Congressional Register as part of my daily routine. So I suppose I should have just kept my mouth shut. However, the expense item to allow for the TV conversion was brought up along with all the other items in the package, so perhaps I overreacted. I didn’t want to disillusion anyone, but I’m not perfect. Sorry.

  • That’s why we all need you, Bliffle, as I said on another thread, to keep us all honest.

  • Arch Conservative

    You prefer your conspiracy theories to come fromt he left handy?

  • Clavos

    Well, Priuses are pretty cool.

    As long as you don’t mind driving an ugly car. Only Azteks are uglier…

  • The overwhelming majority in the US belive that homesexuals are deviants -hmmm make it illegal and lock them up????,

    H&C. This is not supported by the facts. At all. Not vaguely.

    Ted, just shut up. You give conservatives a bad name.


  • Arch Conservative

    Is the plural of Prius Priuses, Priui or Priusi?

  • “I didn’t want to disillusion anyone, but I’m not perfect.”

    I can’t imagine anyone was under that assumption.

  • Are you capable of anything else other than snide remarks? I think your contribution to the substance of the argument would be better spent.

  • Arch Conservative

    “I didn’t want to disillusion anyone, but I’m not perfect.”

    Who said that?

    I’m betting it wasn’t Barry O.

  • Maybe he ought to have – just to diffuse the argument, no?

  • Arch Conservative

    MMM…. I don’t think he’s capable of showing such humility.

    Jet pointed out that Barry claimed he made a mistake in picking a tax cheat to head the treasury but it just gave one the feeling that Barry was seeking praise for himself on admitting he made a mistake. In the end he did absolutely nothing to rectify the mistake and we still have a tax cheat heading up the treasury.

  • Well, that’s not the best example of leadership, I’d say. I think the American people are quite capable of forgiving, don’t you think, Arch?

  • Well, Obama did say, apropos the Daschle appointment, “I screwed up.”

    W took about 8 years to own up to mistakes and regrets, and then only in a limited and vague way.

  • Hope and Change?

    “I am sorry”, Ted Bundy

    “I am sorry”, Barry Obama

  • Hope and Change writes:

    “Everyone knows that in the US people of African dissent are not held to the same standards as whites or asians…

    Ah, the Southern Strategy rears its head again, but here’s a twist…

    I don’t think H&C is being extreme enough.

    That’s right. David Duke doesn’t code his words about these sorts of things. Listen to his “wisdom” on Michael Steele:

    “I am glad these traitorous leaders of the Republican Party appointed this Black racist, affirmative action advocate to the head of the Republican party because this will lead to a huge revolt among the Republican base. As a former Republican official, I can tell you that millions of rank-and-file Republicans are mad as hell and aren’t going to take it anymore! We will either take the Republican Party back over the next four years or we will say, “To Hell With the Republican Party!” And we will take 90 percent of Republicans with us into a New Party that will take its current place!

    I think the insanity of nominating “Mr. Amnesty” John McCain and now this Black racist — will lead to insurgency in the Republican ranks, and a lot of dissidents getting elected in Republican Party primaries around the country. This will result over the next four years in a real move by millions of Republicans to take the party back to the populist issues that are not only right but can win for the Republican Party…

    …Let’s make this abomination in the Republican Party the last major party of White redoubt, as a rallying cry of resistance!”

    You see, readers? Duke is open and honest about his hatred. He doesn’t wink and nod about this stuff. He lays it all out on the table. Just like the Council of Conservative Citizens in their Statement of Principles:

    We also oppose all efforts to mix the races of mankind, to promote non-white races over the European-American people through so-called “affirmative action” and similar measures, to destroy or denigrate the European-American heritage, including the heritage of the Southern people, and to force the integration of the races.

    You see the difference, readers? The CC of C isn’t just against Affirmative Action… they give you the TRUTH about WHY they’re against Affirmative Action. Republican Congressional Candidate from Tennessee, James L. Hart stands up to be counted as well on his Eugenics/White Supremacist Platform:

    “Eugenics is a moral commitment not a racial affiliation and any race that accepted its moral responsibility to protect the right of it’s children to be born physically healthy and mentally capable could evolve into and become the next more highly evolved species above homo-sapiens. We are responsible for what our children will be. Our present tax and welfare system is redistributing life support systems away from the capable to the incapable and thus reducing the genetic quality of future generations. We are actually encouraging the least capable members of the human race to reproduce by giving them welfare grants and rewards for bearing more children.”

    Yes, folks. H&C is giving you a watered-down, milquetoast, girly-man version of this ideology. Perhaps on other blogs, or on threads a conscious, African-American liberal like myself hasn’t read yet, nobody calls him out about this.

    Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to change H&C. I want him to show the courage of his convictions. I want him to take the cap off and show that shaved head. I want him to take that white linen out of the closet, and that stars and bars rag out of his back pocket. I want him to man up, and stop letting the relative anonymity of the internet blogosphere mask his true colors.

    Just sayin’…y’know.


  • Cobra,

    We can only hope.


  • Hope and Change?

    Hmmmm what would the left wing loon say if someone wrote this….

    “Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to change Cobra. I want him to show the impotence of his onvictions. I want him to take the pick out of his Afro and show that nappy lice infested head of his. I want him to take that dashiki out of the closet, and put that bone throgh his nose. I want him to man up, call out all the thugs and racist scumbags he calls his “Bros”.

    And to stop letting the relative anonymity of the internet blogosphere mask his true colors….”

    Just imagine if someone actually wrote that…

    Hope and change = welfare and food stamps

  • H&C seems to think his crude attempts actually further his cause. When, of course, they in fact have the opposite effect. Not much self-awareness there, I fear.

  • Cobra, you and H&C are two sides of the same fanatical coin. Can I pay for a room for you guys at the Motel 6. I won’t tell anyone.


  • Cannonshop

    But…Jet… did you forget? it’s what the Democrats did after ’94, and ’96, and ’98…all the way up to when they finally got both houses back in ’06.

    It’s what a Minority Party DOES. Now, as you break out the Champagaigne and celebrate Carter’s Economy 2.0, with the printing presses running on overdrive and a debt being tripled that we already couldn’t pay off if we had to, just think-we now have not only a fiat currency backed by exactly jack-shit, but we also have a government that will pass unread legislation (apparently having failed to learn from the PATRIOT ACT-or perhaps having learned the wrong lessons…notably your lot kept it in place when it should’ve sunset) led by a man whose main qualification for office is that he is handsome and has a nice speaking voice.

  • pablo

    Nice post Cannonshop

    Jet is an Obama fan_atic.

  • Not at all Dave.

    People who look more like me are becoming the majority population in America, and it frustrates white reactionaries. Take the “bone through the nose” comment, by H&C…

    Where did I hear a comment like that before? Hmmm? Why, it was none other than the leader of the Republican Party!

    As a young broadcaster in the 1970s,(Rush) Limbaugh once told a black caller: “Take that bone out of your nose and call me back.”

    OK…now it makes perfect sense! H&C was paying hommage to Rush.

    My “shaved-head” reference was of course, an allusion to Skinheads. Now, where have we heard about them in context of this political season?

    On Friday, the ATF busted up an alleged plot to assassinate Barack Obama and go on a multi-state “killing spree.” Agents arrested two men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn. (pictured twice below), and Paul Schlesselman, 18, of West Helena, Ark. (right), and charged them with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms, and threatening a candidate for president.

    Hey, now–those guys were hardcore, huh Dave? Look at the weapons–the swaztika tattoos–those menacing stares! These hooligans were strapped up like a straight-to-DVD “Birth of a Nation” remake.
    No, those boys weren’t wasting any time making “nappy headed” Imus jokes on some blog. Cowart was a member of a group called the Supreme White Alliance.

    Christian, Odinist, National Socialist, Skinhead, Defender, Confederate, other White Racialists are all welcome into Probation with the S.W.A. if considered by a Patched member.

    This is a CLUB. A Club based on Racial beliefs. and for those of you who don’t know what that means, we are in fact Racist’s.

    No mincing of words there, Dave. Look at the pictures. They wear their ideology on their SLEEVES, (if not their bodies via ink.) These fellas are playing on the Varsity level of hate. H&C isn’t even living up to his own rhetoric, yet. School-yard name-calling and taunts about blacks on a blog? That’s all he’s got? LOL! Where’s the commitment? Somebody’s has to step up his game, I guess.


  • Now, I will admit to have owned a kinte patterned neck-tie or two back in the day (not a bow-tie–calm down people!), but I can’t say I’ve ever rocked a Dashiki. Though, it would make a cool look for gigs!

    And come, on folks—welfare and food stamps AGAIN? A well-read extremist already knows the statistical facts.

    The Bush Administration did accomplish something

    Food stamps, the main U.S. anti-hunger program which helps the needy buy food, set a record in September as more than 31.5 million Americans used the program — up 17 percent from a year ago, according to government data.

    And of course, there are more Whites on government assistance than Blacks. You REALLY don’t want me post the statistics comparing the numbers of Whites versus blacks on Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, Welfare and Food Stamps, do you? Not to mention all those White CEO’s begging hat in hand for Corporate Welfare in the form of bail-outs for the Auto Industry, Wall Street and the Banks…oh my. The dollar amounts are staggering. The stereotype rings pretty hollow right about now, considering that Idaho, with a .6 percent African-American population is the nation’s third most economically distressed state. A more accomplished extremist would post anecdotes about individual minorities with problems and build a guilt-by-association case, instead of foolishly using generalities like H&C does. That’s just Bush-league, if you ask me. (pun intended.)

    But, giving facts and statistics won’t change anybody’s mind here. I’m just here to watch the circus, and laugh when the clowns come out.


  • Baronius

    I’ve got to go back for a second to Baritone’s statement that Obama is the most intelligent president we’ve ever had. Ridiculous. Jefferson, Wilson, Nixon, Carter, and Clinton were geniuses. There’s no reason to believe that Obama is in their range, let alone smarter than them. The only reason for saying so is the same reason that a teenage girl thinks that the Jonas Brothers are the greatest band of all time: infatuation.

  • Hope and Change?

    Dave….People who look more like me are becoming the “minority” forced to pay for the entitlement menatality of the growing “third world thinking” population. In addition its funny how non-whites dont think they are racists eventhough “those people” like cobra, make “skin head and klan” comments…

    All Hail King Barry – The Lord of Welfare, Food Stamps and Public Housing!

  • Cindy


    People who look more like me are becoming the “minority”…

    Good, that means there will be less people whose property would need to be redistributed after the revolution.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Cobra #171 – great post!

    Baronius – Is Obama the most intelligent president we’ve had? Probably not – and that’s not referring to my own dislike of ‘measures’ of intelligence. What I would say for Obama instead is that, given who and what he is and where he has lived, he is likely to have a greater innate understanding of the world and the variety of human cultures therein…and thus is far better equipped to navigate the interactions between those cultures. In other words, he certainly has the ability to be the best diplomat we’ve ever had, Ben Franklin notwithstanding.

    But having the ability to do something and actually DOing that thing are two different things. We’ll see.

  • LOL. I don’t make “Skinhead” and “Klan” comments. I simply post the actions and comments of Skinheads and Klanners next to the actions and comments of so-called conservative blog posters to remind the readers where the last exit on the right wing Highway to Hell leads. Engaging in even a mild level of bigotry is no virtue. Diet Coke is still considered soda.


    Well, I would wager that the contemporaries of Jefferson, Wilson, Nixon, Carter, and Clinton (especially the latter two) didn’t consider any of them “geniuses” in their first days of office.

    That being said, Obama’s academic credentials are unquestionable. Both his writing and eloquence are extraordinary, and even has people who hate him complaining that “he relies too much on the teleprompter”, which is silly, because the teleprompter’s mostly his OWN words, (he does have a speechwriter on payroll, like most Presidents) Hell, even Lincoln READ his own handwritten Gettysburg Address, which is viewed by most historians to be the most pivotal Presidential speech (albeit only 269 words.)

    Another point would be to look at what those who wouldn’t be considered “infatuated” with Obama has to say about his intellect:

    David Brooks:

    Brooks also spent time praising Obama’s intellect and skills in social perception, telling two stories of his interactions with Obama that left him “dazzled”:

    Obama has the great intellect. I was interviewing Obama a couple years ago, and I’m getting nowhere with the interview, it’s late in the night, he’s on the phone, walking off the Senate floor, he’s cranky. Out of the blue I say, ‘Ever read a guy named Reinhold Niebuhr?’ And he says, ‘Yeah.’ So i say, ‘What did Niebuhr mean to you?’ For the next 20 minutes, he gave me a perfect description of Reinhold Niebuhr’s thought, which is a very subtle thought process based on the idea that you have to use power while it corrupts you. And I was dazzled, I felt the tingle up my knee as Chris Matthews would say.

    David Broder:

    So for several years, I have been arguing that there are traits much more important to the success of a president than his brainpower. Self-confidence, curiosity, an eye for talent, the ability to communicate, the temperament that invites collaboration — all these and more rank higher on the list of desirable presidential traits.

    I am not ready to abandon that view. But I am struck at how lucky this country is, at the moment, that the president-elect of the United States is a super-smart person like Barack Obama.

    Both Christopher Buckley and Charles Krauthammer describe Obama as having a “first-class intellect.”

    Now, does that put Obama on the same “genius” track as Thomas Jefferson? I don’t know, but the latter “genius” was also a slave-owning hypocrite, so I’ll leave that one be. My point is this, when your “enemies” describe you like Obama’s have, it’s not a hard stretch to believe we’ve elected somebody who’s pretty darn special.


  • “Our standards”…LOL

    Here, is an example of the “genius” of Thomas Jefferson:

    “I advance it therefore as a suspicion only, that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind. It is not against experience to suppose, that different species of the same genus, or varieties of the same species, may possess different qualifications. Will not a lover of natural history then, one who views the gradations in all the races of animals with the eye of philosophy, excuse an effort to keep those in the department of man as distinct as nature has formed them? This unfortunate difference of colour, and perhaps of faculty, is a powerful obstacle to the emancipation of these people. Many of their advocates, while they wish to vindicate the liberty of human nature, are anxious also to preserve its dignity and beauty. Some of these, embarrassed by the question ‘What further is to be done with them?’ join themselves in opposition with those who are actuated by sordid avarice only. Among the Romans emancipation required but one effort. The slave, when made free, might mix with, without staining the blood of his master. But with us a second is necessary, unknown to history. When freed, he is to be removed beyond the reach of mixture.

    Jefferson was not only racist by his OWN words, but a hypocrite by his OWN words, because he himself engaged in wholesale “mixing” with his black female child slave. (When Tommy met Sally) The Y chromosone DNA evidence has put all the debate to rest.

    But, given the context of this current blog thread, I can easily see how at least some of Jefferson’s beliefs posted above would fit in with this narrative. I would ask a question to those who defend or revere Jefferson: Tell me what the great difference is between the above piece and the ones I posted back up-thread from David Duke, the CC of C, and James L. Hunt?

    Given a choice between the two, I’m riding with Obama.

    Yes I can.


  • Hope and Change?

    Based upon post 178..Ill repeat the obvious…

    “One can see how much our standards have been lowered when we see moronic posts such as the one above!”

  • Hope and Change?

    Geee…Jefferson quote a coupel of hundred years old..differnt world but here is one form a few weeks ago….

    BBC News – January 26, 2009

    Witchdoctors defy ban on selling albino parts

    Police in Tanzania have recently arrested almost 100 people suspected of murdering albinos and/or selling their body parts to witchdoctors. Apparently the limbs, hair, and even genitals are used in some folk medicine. The government has responded by pulling the healers’ licenses to practice. The healers are reportedly ignoring the ban.

    “We have so many patients and clients who depend on us,” (herbalist Haruna Kifimbo) told the Citizen (newspaper). “I believe it would have been better if the PM had consulted us before announcing the ban.”

    In the most recent case last Wednesday an albino man – named as Jonas Maduka – was killed in Sogoso village in the north-western Mwanza region.

    He was reportedly eating dinner at home when some people called and asked for his help.

    When he went outside he was strangled, before his assailants chopped off his leg and made away with the limb.

    Hmmmmm…lets use Cobras own logic… gee..In 2009 ….African Doctors are killing people and prescribing the the dead guys balls to their patients.

    Yes it is clear…a very advanced race very advanced…

    H&C…hey isnt Barry a Kenyan? Is that close to Tanzania? Hmmmm look out for healthcare reform!

  • Based upon almost any of your posts, H&C, it’s rather obvious there are no standards

  • You see readers? H&C can’t refute anything that I posted. If anything, he continues to prove my point about the reactionary right.

    I only brought up Tommy Jefferson because Baronous cited him as an example of genius. I reprinted an excerpt from Jefferson’s Letter to the State of Virginia where he proclaimed the racial inferiority of Blacks.

    What does our friend H&C do? He states:

    “Geee…Jefferson quote a coupel of hundred years old..differnt world”

    Then H&C proceed to cut and paste a bizarre story from the BBC about the barbaric practices of some witchdoctors in Africa, adding his own closing quote:

    “African Doctors are killing people and prescribing the the dead guys balls to their patients.

    Yes it is clear…a very advanced race very advanced…”

    Basically, readers..after dismissing the Black inferiority quotes by Jefferson as “two centuries old” and from a “different world”, H&C procedes to post anecdotes about individual minorities with problems and build a guilt-by-association case ENDORSING Jefferson’s racist position, and by comparison, those of David Duke, the CC of C and James L. Hunt.

    H&C did exactly what I TOLD him to do back in Post #171. He stepped up his extremist game. He’s taking the racial rhetoric to the next level.

    By all means, don’t stop now, H&C! Keep on posting, brother! Oh no…let it flow!!!

    You’re the DREAM of every liberal Democrat like me, as you validate many of my claims about the far right. All I have to do is point you out as a prime example of the Conservative Movement in America, and many independent, moderate and undecided readers of this blog will recoil in disgust and make my side and positions seem a helluva lot more palatable.

    I sincerely thank you for your continued support.


  • Cobra, pleeeez, don’t taunt him back to life. We have had a few blessed hours of silence.

    I like your posts, though. Just don’t direct them toward He Who Must Not Be Named.

  • How about H&C, Archie and Al – the dynamic trio!

  • Add Cobra to the list, he’s just as bad only from a different perspective.


  • Hope and Change?

    “I sincerely thank you for your continued support.”

    Cobra what support welfare, food stamps or public housing?

    Cobra did exactly what I TOLD him to do back in Post #179. He stepped up his extremist game, proved that he is “dim of wit”. He’s taking his anti-white racial rhetoric to the next level and believing he is accomplishing meaningful by his silly posts on BC…..aint he a genius!

    Thank you for your support!

    Hope and change = entitlement mentality

    PS = Cobra, do albino balls cure dandruff?

  • Arch Conservative

    Did anyone see the new presidential rankings that came out yesterday? They put W. in the bottom 10. I have no problem with that but how Carter escaped the bottom ten is beyond me. Maybe they just feel sorry for him and don’t want to hurt his feelings by giving him an accurate ranking until after he kicks off.

    I also don’t understand the fascination with JFK, Camelot and all that bullshit baby boomers seem to cling to that puts JFK in the top ten. He didn’t really accomplish anything in his brief time in office other than banging Marilyn Monroe.

    And it will probably be another hundred years or so before historians can gain some true perspective and Regan rightfully’s assumes the number 3 position behind Washington and Lincoln.

  • I’m assuming you mean Reagan, but seriously? Reagan in the top three US presidents? For what?

  • Hope and Change?

    If JFK wasnt killed he would be remembered as a foot note in US and World history…

    Oh wait…he would be remembered as the guy responsible for escalting the Vietnam war…

  • Well, it looks like electing a black man to the White House did not exactly cure all the racial disputations in the United States.

    OK kids, let’s put it this way. And remember, this is a socialist talking – a real live leftist who believes in social equality and equity talking. I’m not some damned slave-owning “liberal” or some stone-age fool who does not believe in the basic things that every civilized country should have – a policy of nationally subsidized health care, a policy of nationally subsidized PAID vacations for all workers, social insurance, child allowances for mothers, etc., and who is willing to pay the taxes needed (and who does pay the taxes needed) to provide all these things.

    It is wonderful that the United States elected a black man to the office of president, in that it helped off-load some of the racism inherent in American society. It’s just a damned shame that the black elected was this black man, as opposed to Alan Keyes, for example. This black man is a man who hung tight with crooked Chicago pols, who learned dissimulation at the feet of a subversive, Saul Alinsky, who worked for one of the smelliest “community” organizations in the States, ACORN, and who is a liar who is unwilling, for reasons of his own, to come clean about his birth, and place of birth.

    Barry Obama has something to hide.

    This is not the man who should be running the United States, or who should have his finger on the nuclear button. This man can be blackmailed.

    But, this is the man you are stuck with. One can argue that this is the man you deserve, but I’m not going there for the moment.

    Yes, Obama is a brilliant speaker – when he has what to say. He is very good at PR. He is young enough to have enough energy to deal with the office of president.

    But the negatives far outweigh the positives – and, to boot, he will not get you out of the economic mess you are in, as he is part of that mess. I have never heard of the man who tips over his own rice bowl.

  • Hope and Change?

    “Obama is a brilliant speaker”


    “Obama is a brilliant READER”

    As the great Joe Biden said about our Barry…

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,”

    nuff said

  • Chris @ #187:

    Archie is invoking the little-known and understandably little-publicized fact that due to a typo on the ballot papers, Treasury Secretary Donald Regan was in fact accidentally elected President of the United States from 1981 to 1989…

    Which may explain that vacant, unpresidential demeanor Ronnie so often had!


  • Baronius

    Arch – Thanks for the heads-up about that survey. Pretty interesting. Some of the results made no sense – like Clinton moving up 5 places in “moral authority”. And what’s with Truman now ranked below Kennedy in “policy vision”? Or were the atomic bomb, the Marshall Plan, and the Cold War so much less visionary than the Bay of Pigs? Still, lists like this are supposed to start arguments.

  • It’s just a damned shame that the black elected was this black man, as opposed to Alan Keyes, for example. This black man is a man who hung tight with crooked Chicago pols, who learned dissimulation at the feet of a subversive, Saul Alinsky, who worked for one of the smelliest “community” organizations in the States, ACORN, and who is a liar who is unwilling, for reasons of his own, to come clean about his birth, and place of birth.

    Ok, Ruvy…you’re obviously one of those folks who can’t accept that Barack Obama won convincingly and above board. I mean, sure, Obama could get away with a falsified birth certificate with every angry right winged news organization and opposition researchers from both the RNC and the Clinton machine digging through every facet of his life since he was a zygote. Suuuure.

    Hey, I’ve got some Elvis concert tickets for next Friday–third row orchestra for a good price…

    ACORN helps poor, inner city residents, so I can see why right wingers hate them so much, but hey since this group engaged in Ponzi schemes, war profiteering, Southeast Asian child sweat-shop labor and doing business with Iran through off-shore subsidiaries…

    Oh, I’m sorry. That’s not what ACORN does. Ruvy, could you tell us what they do that’s as bad in comparison?

    Alan Keyes….
    Alan Keyes?!?


    Alan Keyes Arrested!

    The “Logic” of Alan Keyes

    The PINNACLE of Alan Keyes’ Political Career

    You want THIS guy to be President of the United States of America? Thank God, Obama obliterated Keyes in 2004 70%-27%: the biggest landslide in Illinois Senate History. Obama even won 40% of the REPUBLICAN vote.

    The third video is quite telling, as you get a glimpse of the daughter Alan Keyes kicked out over her sexual orientation.

    But hey, this is Blogcritics, and I’m sure right wingers will think that’s just swell, too.

    And ain’t that a beautiful thing?


  • Cobra,

    For starters, I’m no right winger – for that, you need to talk to someone else. Second – and you may have missed this point – I supported Obama’s election – though not for your benefit, but for mine.

    I sought work as a community activist as a young man, and from time to time interviewed at ACORN. Every single time I interviewed there, I kept getting this feeling in my gut that these were hustlers and hucksters – and learned to stay away from their ads and from them. They talk a great game.

    You don’t like Alan Keyes? Fine – even Colon Bowell would have made a black American president of integrity – even though I do not agree with his policies (as you may have guessed).

    Finally, let’s face it. Anybody who pals around with Hot Rod Rodney of Illinois is no honest man. And from his behavior regarding his school records and birth certificate, this is a man with something to hide.

  • Ruvy,

    I tried to peg you on another thread. I know you’re not a right winger, but Alan K is a joke. Obama may be too, but he’s trying to measure up. I would too, and so would you.

    I was more against him than you can imagine. But I’m trying to be fair. He’s trying.

  • Birth certificate?

    It’s posted online for all to see. From Factcheck.orq, the link:

    “In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document’s authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is “fake.”

    We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as “supporting documents” to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

    Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.”

    President Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School. U.S. Senators often talk to the Governors of the States they’re from.

    There are legitimate philosophical and governance issues to argue with President Obama about. When the subject goes to birth certificates and school transcripts, it honestly sounds no better than the extreme left going after Bush over drug use and college abortions.
    It’s irrelevant.


  • Jet

    I’m just getting around to my mail and the responses to this latest article.

    I appreciate your input

  • Jet

    Re-8: Arch, you are aware (aren’t you?) that the word “congress” includes the house and the senate?

    I’m pretty sure there is more than one in there somewhere…

    Of course I’ve been wrong before…

  • Can someone please tell me why the press is still quoting this loser?

    Cheney Says He Favors Limbaugh Over Powell as Model Republican
    Bloomberg – ?21 minutes ago?
    By Elliot Blair Smith May 10 (Bloomberg) — Former Vice President Dick Cheney said Republicans are better served by conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh than by former Secretary of State Colin Powell.

  • Bliffle

    It tells you how bad Cheneys judgement is and has been. And he was the power behind the throne in the Bush administration!

  • Jet,

    I saw this article, in the digg sidebar, very good. I dugg it and friended you friend.

    Are you watching the C-PAC Show? It’s amazing what a ton of money, and a press that’s in your pocket, will do for you. Ann Coulter almost looked not-insane..well almost. But don’t worry too-much, I still think that they are just a lot of smoke and mirrors.

    :]Good to read you, Jet! Why doesnt my article, “The America we all Want” show in that little widget?

  • Thanks Jeannie, I discovered that this article was getting a lot of readers over the last couple of days, on my own politics site (despite it being a year old), so I checked here and discovered that it’d never been submitted to Google by the editors, so I did it myself last night.

    Check the top of the article you’re asking about and if it has Diggs, it’s been submitted, if not, you’ve got to do it yourself… like I did.

    In fact I’ll look at your list and Digg yours to return the favor…

  • Thank you Jet!

    I know Clavos submitted it to digg, but I didn’t know about google…I’ve changed a lot of privacy settings all over this web, and, sometimes I think I’m invisible to everyone but me!

    I’ve locked myself out-of-my Twitter page, so, now I can find it, but can’t add to it!

    Come over and read my article, if you have the time, OK?

    :]How are you healing after your operation? Quickly, I hope. Well, I gotta run, this computer, swallows me-up sometimes…bye for now 🙂

  • Jet,

    I can’t seem to get this story out there. How, do I submit it to Google myself?

    :} Thanks if you can.

  • Sorry, I meant Digg, It looks like it was already submitted. Keeping an article on their sidebar here is tricky and they fall off it very fast as you can see this one has already along with the Dallas article that was published yesterday!

    In fact like used paper towels in a bathroom, they fall off faster than our names and articles do on BCs home page, leaving only outsiders doing a google search to even know they exist after about two weeks.

    If the digg box at the top of your article says “submit” than the editor didn’t do it when it was published like this one was. If it has a number of diggs you’re fine.

    Do you have a Digg account? You have to register first?

    Even though this article is a year old it still is very relavant, and like I said it is getting a lot of hits on my own site, so I figured why not send some traffic BCs way by submitting it to digg.

    I don’t take it personally when an article isn’t submitted by an editor-they probably have hands full and submitting articles is a pain in the ass.

    Especially in my case as I seem to be logged out by them every single time I “digg” someone else’s article and if I want to digg several I have to keep logging in on their site every time.

  • Jet Gardner

    Merry X-mas to all—Brand and 1 can go suck an egg

  • Which Senators voted no on a FOUR % tax increase to avert the fiscal cliff?

    Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo
    Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del
    Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa
    Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa
    Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah
    Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky
    Sen. Marco Rubio, R-Fla
    Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala

    This fight is over a mere FOUR FUCKING PERCENT tax increase on people who whose tax accountants make it so that they barely pay tax at all anyway!

    All over some GOP asshole’s teabagger tax pledge-and don’t give me the bullshit about the small business owners-99% of SMALL mom & pop business owners don’t make $400,000 (or 250,000 for that matter} in a year and rhe RepubliCAN’Ts know it.

    It’s a GOP ploy that the American people are buying to paint rich people as struggling for every penny.

  • Igor

    Maybe if we raise the taxes enough on those pampered princes they’ll self-deport themselves and we won’t have to accommodate them anymore.

  • After all they are the ones that exported all those jobs aren’t they?

  • Dr Dreadful

    It’s encouraging that the GOP-led House, which had been making dubious noises, passed the bill despite the tantrums of the Tea Partiers.

    The general mood among the Republican reps seemed to be that although they weren’t happy about a lot of the bill, the best course of action was to pass it now as a Band-Aid and there’d be other opportunities to work for what they want later on.

    Astounding as it seems, I do believe they are finally learning how to negotiate and compromise. And hopefully, in the new Congress with its slightly diminished GOP contingent, the Tea Party will have even less influence.

  • Boehner’s misplaced arrogance is an embarrasment to Ohio

  • Igor

    The lesson of the last few years is that the republicans are financially irresponsible.

    Thus, they lose a bragging point they’ve cherished for a long long time.

  • They keep ranting about the national debt after free spending us into it with two wars that they didn’t put on the US budget until Bush was out of office… then tried to blame Obama for.