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Getting the Government Third Worlders Deserve

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When Thomas Jefferson said that “people get the government they deserve,” it was more than just a clever turn of phrase. It also was not an isolated insight but a timeless truth, one expressed by many. William Cowper said,

“When was public virtue to be found when private was not?”

Benjamin Franklin stated,

“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.”

Truth be known, I could probably fill a book with the words of wise ones who have spoken in kind. But, you know, I understand this principle well. I know that people get the government they deserve; what bothers me is that I’m going to get the government they deserve.

You should be bothered, too. With the “people” changing radically through Third World immigration (Ted Kennedy’s 1965 immigration act ensures that 85 percent of immigrants come from the Third World and Asia), it’s legitimate to wonder how demographics influence democracy. And it’s not hard to understand how these folks will shape government, for they have done so before – in their own lands.

Since our largest immigrant group hails from Mexico, let’s look south of the border. Mexico is a thoroughly corrupt country, not at all unique in the Third World but certainly emblematic of it. For instance, they have the dubious distinction of possibly having the most corrupt police force in the world, as Mexican authorities enforce whatever law pays them the most. According to a documentary on the subject, you can buy your way out of a fatal hit-and-run for 450 dollars. But the corruption is so systemic that many of us have heard the stories ourselves. I remember being told of a man who traveled to Mexico and was mugged by the police (a documented example of theft by Mexican police can be found here). Then I heard about a hapless soul who had to sell his home to pay tribute to a family with more clout and a grudge against him; the police payed him a visit and told him he’d be shot if he didn’t. Most recently, an acquaintance told me how he was pulled over for running a stop sign that didn’t exist and had to pay the crooked cop a bribe so he could continue on his way. And this corruption is mirrored in every aspect of Mexican society, in the bureaucrats, the courts and, of course, the politicians.

This is why cultural equivalency doctrine is nonsense. People may complain about corruption here, and while it certainly exists, it’s the exception, not the norm; by and large, we are still governed by the rule of law. We don’t fully appreciate this because in just the same way some of us take our lifestyle for granted – not realizing ours is a life of silk and satin as compared to most of the world – we also take for granted that one will be able to conduct everyday business and others will play by the rules. But in most of the world this is the exception, not the norm.

In other words, if we want to descend into a culture of corruption, all we need do is continue the importation of Third Worlders through immigration, both illegal and legal. Naturalization won’t inculcate virtue; rather, they will bring their passions, ideology and voting habits with them and lend their support to the same kinds of corrupt leftists they supported in their native lands.

As to this, first-time Hispanic voters cast ballots for Bill Clinton by a staggering margin of fifteen to one. So, while Bush once said that family values don’t stop at the border, it certainly seems that free market ones do. Preying on this, there is a tacit offer being made by the traitorous politicians among us:

Listen, come here with millions of your fellow travelers and vote for us, and, oh, oh, the rape shall commence. We’ll give you the wealth of the native people; we don’t know how to say it in Spanish, but we have a nice euphemism: “Redistribution.” And the provincialists who would call it theft are simply too stupid to understand that if we make it legal, it cannot be wrong.

Whenever I sound this alarm, I always receive emails from those who call me an alarmist, if not something worse. They state with assurance that these Third Worlders will assimilate, just as Americans always had.

They dream.

If you want a glimpse of things to come (unless we reverse course), just study states in which Third Worlders have settled. California was once a place where Ronald Reagan reigned supreme, a conservative citadel. Now, with the majority of its population being of Third World and Asian heritage, it’s on the cutting edge of societal devolution. Its senators are Barbara Boxer and Diane Crimestein, and it has become a metaphor for politically correct insanity. Reagan could be resurrected with all his charm and oratorical splendor, and he would not win his home state.

Arizona is another prime example. Once synonymous with Barry Goldwater, it now elects senators such as John McCain and Jon Kyl, amnesty advocates both. Hey, they know their constituency.

What do you think will happen when the Third World invasion hits your region? Is your state possessed of a special aura that will magically transform these groups’ collective ideology? The truth is that once the whole nation looks like California, you’ll be pressing two for English.

If you’re a leftist such as Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton, you welcome this importation of socialist-minded voters. If Lady Macbeth is her party’s nominee, California will be a lock, and if the whole nation looked like the Golden State . . . well, her biggest worry would be competition from the left. Yes, just imagine, if we become Mexico North, we’ll have a Hillary Clinton or Al Gore on the right against a Hugo Chavez on the left. Talk about the lesser of two evils.

Many have opined that this demographic trend spells doom for the Republican Party. This epitaph is premature, however, so be not afraid if you’re comforted by the sight of an office holder with an “R” beside his name. Political parties are remarkably malleable; like water, they take the shape of the vessel in which they find themselves. Sure, the Republicans will initially struggle to “rehabilitate” their image as an entity not given to nanny state, cradle-to-grave giveaways and perennial pandering to minority angst, but they shall persevere. You’ll get your candidates with the R’s. Although they may need to have Z’s to the left of them.

As for those welcoming this cultural suicide, they will learn the hard way that one must be careful what he wishes for; you see, by and large, they know not what they sow. The politicians are blinded by power, the business interests by money, and the Mexicans by ethnic patriotism. And, ironically, it is the last group that will probably be most unhappy as we devolve into Mexico North. The only concerns of politicians and business are, respectively, power here and now and money here and now. Most of these people are fairly old, and life beyond the next few elections or few dozen financial quarters is of no consequence. If they are still around, perhaps assimilating into the culture of the French Riviera by joining the locals in mockery of boorish Americans, their Lear jets will spirit them away to lands of milk and honey and their plunder will buy them all the political favors and favorable court rulings a Master of the Universe could ever need.

The hapless Third Worlders, like most of the rest of us, won’t be so fortunate. Languishing in a nation reminiscent of Blade Runner (that is, assuming America remains intact), they won’t have pockets deep enough in which to keep police, bureaucrats, judges and politicians. They will occupy the second lowest tier in an economic caste system – right above white native Americans.

Of course, one group that will welcome this cultural and economic breakdown is the Islamists. A corrupt, balkanized land where political correctness carries the day is fertile soil for those who prey on desperate souls yearning for meaning and moral order.

Be assured, though, immigration will come to an end. Once the rape of these United States is complete, with money redistributed, productivity and wealth creation squelched and currency devalued, immigrants will stop coming here. People generally don’t go from one Third World country to another.

With the picture I’ve painted, one might think I have stock in the maker of Prozac. Theoretically, though, we could still right the ship. But the first step is the termination of an abusive relationship: Our love affair with immigration. The historical norm is to protect your shores from culturally imperialistic foreign elements, not invite them in. And the only reason this simple truth escapes us is that we have fallen victim to immigration and diversity dogma, to a sinister salesmanship, a leftist juggernaut that could sell a full-length burka to a NOW member. And, in a way, that’s exactly what they’re doing.

Or perhaps it’s more like selling pork carnitas to a jihadist.

No, actually, it’s more like selling death to a civilization.

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About Selwyn Duke

  • Dr Dreadful

    It makes me feel really good knowing that there are people who truly abhor racist ideas and choose to stand against them

    And maybe it’s working, Zedd. Notice how Selwyn hasn’t posted anything new for a while?

    Which is, in a way, a shame. He’s succeeded in promoting a free-ranging discussion and sense of comradeship whose spirit, I suspect, is very far from what he intended.

    Imagine, a Mexican, Brit, Australian and South African conversing about nothing and making the world a better place.

    And don’t forget Ruvy the Israeli. He hasn’t chimed in much here, but I know he’s been reading and, I hope, enjoying the various meanders this thread has taken.

  • Zedd

    Doc, STM, Clav, et al,

    It makes me feel really good knowing that there are people who truly abhor racist ideas and choose to stand against them in the privacy of their own homes or offices, where no one is looking. In my opinion, that is HUGE!!

    It gets exhausting living in a world where by virtue of being born one is attributed all manner of odd and displaced characteristics and is addressed in a disrespectful manner by strangers, based on those extreme distortions through their entire life.

    While I am not from a “third world” country, I know that Selwyn actually means none Whites. While his words don’t hurt, they are tiresome and affect and influence many in our society who hold decision making posts that affect our lives in a variety of ways. Its the pollution of our world that is significant and will affect my lovely children in the future, for no reason.

    So I say, thank you for taking a position to dismiss this manner of foolishness. AND it was fun gents. Imagine, a Mexican, Brit, Australian and South African conversing about nothing and making the world a better place….. :o) NICE!

  • Dr Dreadful

    1st reaction to #115: AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

    2nd reaction to #115: LOL!!!!!

  • troll

    Cheney…Chaney…well the resemblance is clear

  • Dr Dreadful

    I’m telling you, they can’t fool me.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, before George Carlin’s “men with no facial expression” come knocking on the door, I must move to an Undisclosed Location.

  • Zedd


    I am happy to transfer to your theory into fact status. Your explanation of the conundrum which is Bush and Chaney works for me. Whew.. It all makes sense now…


  • Dr Dreadful

    Actually, if you count the various semi-unofficial Doctors, such as Peter Cushing in the 1960s big-screen movie version or the several radio versions, he’s probably on his 14th or 15th incarnation.

    I seem to remember 11 being the limit for Time Lords… although the Doctor being the Doctor, he probably found a way around that a long time ago. Also, since he was already 700-odd years old when we first met him as William Hartnell back in the sixties, it’s highly improbable that he’d survived that long without having to reincarnate a few additional times.

    I have a theory. Perhaps George W. Bush is an incarnation of the Doctor. “Pooti Poot” does sound like the sort of irreverent thing he would say. Or maybe Dick Cheney is an incarnation of his arch-nemesis, the Master. Or maybe both are true, and the two Time Lords are playing some kind of multi-dimensional endgame which we humans are powerless to comprehend…!

  • Zedd

    Speaking about being under the influence of something…… Does anyone remember Bush calling Putin “Pooti Poot”?

    How does one begin to process that?

  • Zedd


    Told you……

    Like you said its a perfect mix. They got it right this time.

    I wasn’t prepared to like it but once watched, I was hooked! And you are right about the lead actor. I hope the next one will be just as charming and compelling. Is he not supposed to have 9 generations? Seems to me he’s going on a 10th.

    I’m so excited that you enjoyed it.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Hey Zedd,

    Just when we were discussing Doctor Who the other day and I was lamenting that I didn’t get cable in time to see it on BBC America, our local PBS station started running the new series last night.

    I loved it! The writers/producers have struck just about exactly the right balance, capturing the spirit of the original show – cheesy dialogue, bargain-basement monsters and all – while leaving scope for modern special effects that complement the story without overwhelming it. They’ve also injected some contemporary appeal in the form of X Files-style conspiratorialism and metaphysical musing, but not too much.

    Christopher Eccleston is great as the Doctor. He cuts back on the sartorial eccentricity but manages to convey a sense of his alienness. He mixes some of Tom Baker’s childlike bravado with Sylvester McCoy’s cheerful disregard for social platitudes. And I think Billie Piper’s Rose makes a perfect companion. Her character is smart and sassy and the interplay between her and the Doctor is great.

    The idea of the homicidal department store mannequins fits right in with the Doctor Who spirit. The director resisted the temptation to use CGI and instead relied on actors in plastic masks, just like in the old days. The result was monsters who were scary but not too horrific for the younger viewers on whom the show largely depends.

    The new series looks as if it’s going to be single self-contained adventures, which is a bit of a shame. One of the great things about the original was the cliffhangers at the end of each episode with the Doctor, or his companion, or both, facing apparent certain death. It guaranteed that you tuned in the following week to find out how they managed to escape. But hey, you can’t have everything.

    My favorite bit of dialogue from the pilot:

    ROSE: If you’re an alien, how come you’ve got a northern accent?
    DOCTOR (indignantly): Lots of planets have a north!


  • Dr Dreadful

    LOL. How about this scenario: Bush is sitting around with Blair, Putin and the others after a hard day’s G8ing. “OK, we gotta give the plebs something. Last year it was me and Angela. Year before that it was me and Tony. I’m so over it. So this year, how about we get the new guy? ;-)”

  • Zedd

    I cant wait for the next G8. Last year was the massage incident, then the Blair/Bush conversation (open mouthed roll eating smacking included), now Sarko the wonder boy is under some sort of influence and about to puke. Its like college spring break!

  • Zedd

    Putin is ruthless, Soviet style. Perhaps he was slipped something ;o)

    I’m sure we’ll know sooner or later. If this is a problem, it will reveal itself.

  • STM

    Maybe it was the vodka. They drink the bloody stuff like water. You only need about five little glasses and you’re walking around on your head, that’s how strong it is.

    The Russians are used to it, but everyone else struggles.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Zedd, I finally got a chance to actually look at the Sarkozy video on YouTube. I don’t think he was drunk – he spoke coherently and without slurring – but he certainly wasn’t entirely himself either. He seemed almost euphoric to begin with, then seemed to pull himself together up until the point where he was clearly trying to stop himself from throwing up.

    Maybe Putin had some good pills back there…

  • Zedd

    Not sure if this tops Bush massaging the German Chancellor last year. That was priceless.

  • Zedd


    Or the French Savior is a drunk. I am sure there are such things as alcoholics in France. We will know soon enough. However it was unstatesman like either way. But after Bush everything is acceptable.

  • Dr Dreadful

    According to the latest news, Sarkozy claims to be teetotal, and the Belgian news outlet that ran the original story is backpedalling. Sarko may just have been euphoric about the election results, or he could have been on something besides alcohol, but I guess we’ll never know for sure.

    Say what you like about French politics – it’s certainly never dull.

    As for the Russian prez drinking Sarkozy under the table: well, Putin has some big shoes to fill. Rest in peace, Boris.

  • More likely Putin wouldn’t stop drinking, and Sarkozy being a Frenchman (or Hungarian) tried to match him Cognac for Cognac and Putin – being a Russian – drank the frog lightweight under the table.


  • Dr Dreadful

    Ah, yes, and just when they thought things couldn’t get any worse their fun was gatecrashed by the hyperactive Father Furlong – played by Graham Norton – and his shellshocked youth group. Didn’t Dougal try to hide by putting a lampshade over his head?

  • STM

    Bloody hell … we’re on Father Ted, now are we.

    FECK! Does anyone remember the one where they went on holiday to a coastal caravan (trailer) park and their van was falling to bits??

    Truly hilarious, but I think you have to be in the right mood to watch it. It’s also a great statement by the Irish about what they think of the clergy and the role it plays in Irish life.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Don’t know about a drinking problem… we’ll see. But considering his party just trounced all comers at the general election – and indications are that another spectacular ass-kicking is still to come in next week’s second round – who could blame him for over-celebrating?

    He probably should have chugged a couple of cups of coffee before the press conference though. Very unstatesmanlike.

  • Zedd

    Drunk Sarkozy! What a winner!!!

  • Zedd


    Did you read or hear that Sarkozy may have a drinking problem. He came to a press conference all late and sauced day (I believe) before yesterday saying that it was Putin who made him late because he wouldn’t stop talking. Its said he was smirking through the entire interview.

  • Zedd

    I really enjoy Selwyn’s articles.

    Whens the next!!

  • Zedd


    The Speed spoof was so funny! It was so ridiculous. It ended uneventfully if I remember.

  • Dr Dreadful

    I used to have a t-shirt with Father Jack’s senile war cry “DRINK! FECK! GIRLS! ARSE!” emblazoned on it. I threw it away when I emigrated, to my eternal regret. It would have been fun to wear it in America and see what the reaction was.

    One of my favorite episodes was when they spoofed the movie Speed: Ted had somehow pissed off the local milkman and Dougal got stuck driving the milk float which had been rigged to explode if it went over 4 mph…

    Then there was the one where Ted managed to alienate Craggy Island’s implausibly large Chinese community due to a misunderstanding involving some unfortunate hand gestures and a piece of Hitler moustache-shaped tape. He ended up having to convince the entire island that he wasn’t a closet racist.

    An absolute classic, held together by the great Dermot Morgan – sadly taken from us far too young.

    …Good grief, Thermoman. I’d forgotten about that one. I think it lasted about 0.0025 of a season before getting canceled.

  • Zedd


    I was born in SA and spent my early childhood there. Grew up here. But some of my summers were at home. Yes SA has a huge British influence. I love traveling to GB because its nostalgic in so many ways.

    Ah Father Ted. Mrs Doyle was a laugh wasn’t she? I have to admit that I get grossed out easily and the crazy older retired vicar (Jack I think)looked horrible, he really creeped me out.

    I’m ashamed to admit that I liked Thermoman. The same actor played Dougal on Father Ted.

  • Dr Dreadful

    I thought you grew up in South Africa, Zedd. Your reminiscences certainly sound a lot like Britain… echoes of the Empire, maybe?

    The clink of milk bottles was certainly an evocative sound. It was particularly exciting at Christmas: the milkman would deliver extra early on Christmas morning (at around 4 a.m.) so that he could get home to his family, and I remember listening to the clink of bottles in the darkness – I could never sleep that night – and knowing that it meant I wouldn’t have to lie awake for much longer before I could respectably get up and start delving into my stocking.

    While I think of it, I’d like to link the subject of tea back to our earlier discussion on British sitcoms. Although actually the one I have in mind is Irish. Did you ever see Father Ted and if so, do you remember the psychotic parochial housekeeper Mrs Doyle, who had a compulsive need to brew tea and would force countless cuppas on the unfortunate priests at every opportunity?

  • Zedd

    My father was not so particular about his tea he just required something tasty with it (tea cakes, scone or ginger snaps in this country… Son to my granny)

    My mom was much more particular. The color had to be just right. A nice light peachy beige with no sugar off course often with bread and marmalade. Took me a while to adjust to marmalade. As my taste buds faded with age, I came to enjoy it. Unlike you gents, I need to sweeten my tea just a tad.

    I prefer coffee but must indulge once I get tea on my mind, I simply must.

    As for the drinking of it being an occasion, I remember the old women back home gossiping in their gardens across the fence with a cup of tea in hand and sharing baked goods. I recall people coming into the house and the first thing being offered being a cup.

    As for the milk Doc, I recall with fondness how our milkman used to deliver the bottles of milk. He was always so jolly. He’d leave them on the steps and collect at a later date. I can still hear them clinking together when placed down. I remember those tin caps. At that time there was no light milk delivered. The cream would float to the top, yum. My 2% milk turns my tea sort of grayish but it still calls me and I answer.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Billy tea. Great stuff. On several occasions in our travels around Australia, we were privileged to enjoy billy tea prepared in the traditional way, using only authentic methods and ingredients: namely, the Box of Tetley, the Galvanized Steel Bucket and the most essential tool of all, the Hot Water Tap Underneath The Tour Bus.

    possibly whilst planning your next attack on the Jerries

    Would that be Jerries as in the German armed forces or as in dunnies? Either meaning seems appropriate.

  • STM

    My old man, obviously from his army days, would make a full pot of the strongest tea imaginable – you could stand a spoon up in it – and down the lot. No sugar (fair enough in a proper cup of tea, but this stuff. Yek!) He also taught me how to make bush tea (in a pot) using an Australian device known as a billy, which is pot with a carrying handle over the top.

    After boiling the water, you drop in the required amount of tea and pick up the pot using the handle, and swirl it around your head like a madman (centrifugal force keeps the water in and supposedly forces the tea leaves to leech their goodness into the water). After that’s done, you whack the milk into the pot and serve a mug to everyone, possibly whilst planning your next attack on the Jerries (his name, not mine) or the Japs.


  • Dr Dreadful

    I’m with you, Zedd, and you, Stan, in thinking that it doesn’t much matter how tea is made as long as it tastes great and is available to chuck down one’s throat ASAP.

    But on the subject of rituals, my Dad had very specific requirements for his tea:

    1. It had to be in his special sixteen-ounce white china mug with a red rose on the side (Dad, for the exclusive use of).
    2. Two tea bags.
    3. The milk had to be the cream from a bottle of gold top*. Since he liked to drink several cups per day, our weekly milkman’s bill was quite something.
    4. Absolutely no sugar – he could detect a single grain of it in a full mug of tea and would send you back to the kitchen to make more.

    His requirements for coffee, thankfully, were not as stringent.

    *For (especially younger) American readers, milk in Britain used to be – still is, in some areas – delivered to the doorstep in reusable glass bottles with metal foil tops. It was not blended, so with full-fat milk the cream rose to the top. The tops were color-coded according to the type of milk: silver for full-fat, red for semi-skimmed, blue for skimmed and so on. Gold tops denoted milk from a Jersey cow – the very best.

  • Dr Dreadful

    I really am taking some strong meds. I was told by my doctor not do anything significant on it

    Bad Zedd. You know the doc specifically said that includes trying to comment on BC while drinking tea with your pinky sticking up. That’s just too much multi-tasking for a drugged-up brain to cope with. Before you realize it, you’ll be convinced Dave’s a neocon, just like MBD insists he is.

    BTW, don’t ask me for a second opinion. I’m an evil doctor, not an MD. 😉

  • STM

    I had the same visions in my head of your grandma whacking a cow out for everyone dropping in. As you would know Zedd, this country of mine is famous for putting cows on stoves. We do love a nice cuppa AND a good barbecue. You shouldn’t be embarrassed though … it’s all part of the fun. To err is human, and it’s always good to steer 🙂 (pardon the pun) Selwyn’s posts away from the right-wing ranting.

  • Zedd


    I’ve taken things to another level these past days. I always make errors in my posts. Its what I do but for the first time I’m actually embarrassed. I think I’ve made at least 100 grammatical and spelling mistakes including omissions of important words just today. Okay my embarrassment is over… It helps when you guys make fun because I can laugh at myself.

    I really am taking some strong meds. I was told by my doctor not do anything significant on it and I told him that it doesn’t affect me but mmmmm I’d better follow his advice and stop driving when I take it…..

    Thanks for the laugh. I was proud of my post. Until you made the smarty pants comment. If there was a hole I would have jumped in it. FUNNY! I’m imagining my grandma cooking an entire cow on her stove. Thanks for that.

  • STM

    I just made meself a nice cuppa … all the tea talk made me want one.

    Thanks for the heads up Clav, it really does work on a hot day but only with tea, for some reason.

  • STM

    “My grandmother and millions like her had a wood/coal burning stove back home, who would put a cattle on every hour for whomever would be popping in.”

    Lol. Bloody hell, then, Zedd … everyone must have been well fed.

    On a serious note, I know you meant kettle. I can’t understand people who carry on about how you should drink tea. You either stick a teabag in a cup, fill it with boiling water and add some cold milk (no sugar, but!), or stick a few spoonfuls of loose-leaf tea into a teapot or a billy (a small cooking tin) and fill the bloody thing up, again with boiling water.

    Fair dinkum. Tea is just bloody tea, and shouldn’t be drunk with yer pinky sticking up unless you are Lord Fontleroy-Smythe (who in truth probably prefers a scotch or 10).

  • Zedd


    I will try hot tea on a hot day. You’ve heard me whining endlessly about Texas heat. I’ll try anything. I’ll let you know how it works. If I pass out, and have to go to the hospital, I’ll send you the bill. You know my insurance issues. You’d better sell a boat dude!!

    BTW you haven’t updated us on your wife. Its been a week since you’ve said anything……..

  • Zedd


    Perhaps its good PR. It perpetuates the idea of the “poshness” of English society. You should also take advantage of it :o)

    I know many people who when trying to be impressive mention that they are tea drinkers (meaning herbal teas). Again my tiny humble granny comes to mind and it becomes an akward moment for me rather quickly because its clear that they are looking for a sign of my being impressed.

  • Dr Dreadful


    I suspect that the bloke you were listening to on the radio may have been the curator of the Tea Museum, which you won’t be surprised to learn is in London. I’ve seen the owner being interviewed on TV. He’s utterly insane.

  • Stan asks:

    “Doesn’t happen with coffee (which is my preferred poison). Tea’s a comfort drink, and bloody good too on a really hot day as somehow, it cools you down.

    Anyone tell us why??”

    Sure can.

    My brother-in-law (who’s a gastroenterologist) explained to me that, counter to what you might think, a hot drink on a hot day actually makes your body “think” it’s hotter than it really is, which causes its natural cooling mechanisms to kick into high gear. The reverse happens when you imbibe a cold drink.

    That’s the science of it, but I still prefer a cold drink on a hot day…

  • Zedd


    I’m convinced that there is something addictive other than caffeine in tea. When you think about it, its not the tastiest concoction but once you get in on your mind, you must partake and EVERYONE who is a todeler understands that.

    What I find to be funny is how many in the US think drinking tea is a prestigious undertaking. I was listening to a Public Radio show with this somewhat effeminate want-to-be gentleman who was speaking on tea etiquette. He went through an elaborate way to make a cup of tea. Insisting that this was the one and only way to make it. He then proceeded on how to drink it. All I could think of was my grandmother and millions like her who had a wood/coal burning stove back home, who would put a cattle on every hour for whomever would be popping in. She always had a batch of scones, or some biscuits made in the event…. She never followed a ritual to make the tea. It just took water and a tea bag or loose tea (old school) and a sieve. The only etiquette was not to sip loudly. She used whatever cup was available, no Royal Dalton to be seen. When we were much younger, she would give us a sip from the saucer. Than me now, with my microwave using self……

    During that show the lines were hit with a barrage of calls and e-mails from Brits, Ozzies and others saying he was full of it. He however managed to attribute commonness to the callers. I simply rolled my eyes.

  • STM

    It’s amazing how in this office, one person will go and make a cup of tea, and then everyone else goes, “Oh, yeah, cup of tea … that’d be nice” and off they choof.

    Doesn’t happen with coffee (which is my preferred poison). Tea’s a comfort drink, and bloody good too on a really hot day as somehow, it cools you down.

    Anyone tell us why??

  • STM

    DD, I don’t mind the London Olympic logo.

    My view on these things: it’s only an Olympic logo, why all the fuss??

  • Dr Dreadful

    Damn, what have I started? Now I want a cup of tea. And they take at least five minutes to make. Oy, the effort. Be right back.

  • STM

    Lol. Actually, Zedd, I did laugh … and I did have a nice cuppa.

    Here’s a great site to go to for many hours of fun: http://www.engrish.com

    Absolute hoot. Do it, dudes, or forever experience the pain of regret.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Never mind, Zedd. Do what we Brits always do in these situations and have a nice cup of tea. You’ll feel much better.

  • Zedd

    I really blew that one….. oh well.

  • Zedd


    I forgot about that R/L think. The joke goes “what do you call a woman with one let” answer: Ilene. “What do you call a Chinese woman with one leg” answer: Irene

  • Zedd


    You have me laughing. The idea of the Cats bailing ship because of not being able to stomach Cat is priceless.

    Cat designed and tailored all his suits to his own specifications.

    ROTFL… Its just too much! I love the British, I really do. That is insanity taken to the inth degree.

  • STM

    Actually Doc, most of us were quite happy for the Poms to win the RWC and the previous Ashes series. It’s always good to have a bit of life injected into sporting contests, even if the winners are Inger-land.

    My mate became insufferable, however. But when we complained, he said: “Now you know what it fu.king feels like, you bastards.” (His view of the Aussie flag: “The only good bit’s in the corner”)

    Just possibly, he had a valid point:) You’re right, England did deserve to win the World Cup. They had a marvellous competition with some of the best mobile forward play I’ve ever seen from a rugby team anywhere.

    Australia were lucky to remain in the contest until the field goal, and I suspect they had to dig into some very deep reserves of strength to keep up. Martin Johnson (charging up the field, knocking over all and sundry like an angry moose with a firework up its bum) was the architect of the victory, BTW, rather than Sir Clive Woodward – a view borne out too by the statements of some players in the aftermath.

    It’s just that if we have to lose, we’d rather it not be to you 🙂

  • Dr Dreadful

    BTW, what think you of the newly-unveiled logo for the 2012 Olympics? Most of my compadres seem to hate it. I personally think it’s quite charming: looks like a couple of robots gettin’ jiggy wit it.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Australia’s highly unfair RWC final loss to England (by a field goal!) in 2003.

    Oh, pah, Stan. Sour grapes. You lost fair and square. So your mate over-enjoyed his little moment in the sun. It’s not often England manages to win a world championship in a major sport. Whereas just about every third Australian seems to be an Olympic medallist… and I think you’re set fair to win the next 378 Cricket World Cups. Surely you can allow us Poms something every once in a while!

    At least it means you’ve only had to invent one of your own sports. That’s the toughest thing about living in the colonies: they think all those nancy-boy games like American football, baseball, basketball and ice hockey are so important…

    Huh. I could have sworn I heard a chorus of voices in the background sighing “Oh, God, please don’t get started on that again.” At least now I know what Clavos, Zedd and zingzing sound like!

  • STM

    Lol. I think it means you like dicking dolls, probably the blow-up or life-sized ones with oval-shaped mouths.

    Don’t pay no mind to them Yankee boys, though.

    BTW, how do you like being a Brit in America? I had a lot of fun being an Aussie there, and just as much fun being an Aussie in the UK (even if I did verbally cop it up the clacker every second day from someone. The old convict jokes REALLY do wear thin, after a while).

    As you know, we love to hate your mob here. My favourite prank on our favourite Pommy mate was after Australia’s highly unfair RWC final loss to England (by a field goal!) in 2003.

    He left the Cross of St George fluttering over his house for about six months, so that eventually it became torn and tattered. A battle flag, he described it as. He never missed an opportunity to remind us of why it was there, either, so …

    One night, we got him really pissed, shaved off his eyebrows (he works in the money market too, so it was a good look) and climbed up on the roof and replaced it with the Aussie flag. We also took his stepladder and had earlier warned all the neighbours about what we were doing and told them not to lend him one. One of them said he’d been thinking about carrying out a similar raid.

    He had to go to the hardware shop to buy a new ladder, because “I’m not having that bloody thing flying over MY home”. Ah yes, what fun it must be being a true-blue Pom in Oz.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Doc, I have been wondering about your BC moniker.

    Does it have anything to with that parents’ nightmare, Doctor Dreadful, and his penchant for cooking and mess-creation?

    Indeed no, Stan. ‘Tis the name of a character I once played in a sci-fi musical our little theatre company once put on. The play, and the character, were dreamed up by my mate who also wrote the script and the music. I played an evil doctor who’d invented a talking bomb capable of destroying the universe (Osama bin Laden’s wet dream, if you will). I went to the famous theatrical costumers Angel & Berman up in London and rented this ridiculous figure-hugging rubber bodysuit, complete with cloak and outsize codpiece. We had a resident special-effects guy who was a mad inventor in his spare time and came up with all kinds of crazy futuristic machines and gadgets. Sounds dreadful (!) but it was a really fun play. Won a couple of awards, too.

    We used to have a website but that went defunct when I cancelled my ISP account on departing Blighty. I’ve been thinking of putting it back up somewhere, but will have to talk to my mate, who’s still running the company, for material on the latest shows to add to it. So if you ever see a URL appear next to my name, it may link there. Watch this space.

    Anyway, according to zingzing and MBD I am no longer Dr Dreadful but ‘doll dicker’. Whatever that means.

  • STM

    And while we’re on bizarre British comedy, has anyone seen Nighty Night? It’s on UKTV here on cable (yes, there’s a channel entirely devoted to British television, as well as the BBC World and News channels – and about 20 channels of US shows). It’s very black comedy, but nicely done. However, none of the new stuff trumps the old, in my view. I still don’t think anything trumps the delinquent, black humour of Minder, however.

    It has to be one of the best shows ever produced anywhere, a fact borne out by its longevity: 15 years. BTW Doc, I have been wondering about your BC moniker.

    Does it have anything to with that parents’ nightmare, Doctor Dreadful, and his penchant for cooking and mess-creation?

  • STM

    Zedd asked:”How in the world did you figure out that they were say “Air Supply”.

    I know it’s a cliche, but it’s also true of many Asians, particularly those of Chinese background, in Asia at least – many mix up the L and R sounds.

    So obviously, with three happily grinning young Chinese malays and a couple of shy native malays standing behind them, I realised they meant Air Supply, rather than Suppry.

    I pretended I was, or rather I didn’t say I wasn’t, and just signed a bit of indecipherable scribble. It made their day, and I bet they’ve still got the napkin.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Zedd reminisced: I like the idea behind Red Dwarf. The early shows were great then it got out of control. The idea of Cat evolving into a gayish Black guy was too funny. I often wondered why they didn’t bother to explain where he got the Motown looking suits from. I think I must have missed the episodes which explained why there was just one “cat” left instead of thousands on the ship.

    I loved Red Dwarf too. The concept behind Cat was that the preening selfishness with which those of us who are owned by cats are all too familiar had evolved, over the course of two million years, into outrageous vanity. However, the trait in Cat was so strong that it was too much even for the other cats to stomach, which is why they left him behind when they abandoned ship.

    Cat designed and tailored all his suits to his own specifications. One assumes that he acquired his notions of high fashion from the ship’s video library.

    Some of my favorite episodes were the ones with the alternate universe in which Arnold Rimmer is a dashing space hero instead of the most unpopular guy on the ship. I still have a t-shirt with ‘Ace’ Rimmer’s catchphrase, which he would utter before setting off on yet another mission involving certain death: “Smoke me a kipper – I’ll be back for breakfast.”

  • Zedd


    Coupling was clever. Loved it!

    Loath the airline based show, I forget the name of it. Its in the Footballers Wife category only not as bad, still, YUCK!! You just want to bath all of the cast thoroughly.

    BBC America is loosing it. Cash In The Attic is on all freaking day, every day. A couple of years ago that network was unstoppable but now….
    They had the best and coolest DIY and real estate shows (which were copied here and done very badly off course).

  • Zedd


    The premise for Ideal sounds insane! I love surreal comedy (not sure if that is a real genre). That cartoon psychopath guy sounds like a hoot.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Haven’t seen Ideal. British TV seems to have been struggling to produce really good new sitcoms in recent years. One of the best is Coupling, which we get on BBC America over here. I don’t know if they’re still making it… probably not, as Jack Davenport has since moved on to pirate stardom with Messrs Depp and Bloom. Arrrrrr!!!

    And going back to classics, may I place a vote for Drop the Dead Donkey, the show set in a Murdochesque cable TV newsroom. Not only was it hysterically funny, they kept it fresh and sharp by not recording each episode until the day before it aired – so that they could write jokes about current news events into the show.

  • Zedd


    How in the world did you figure out that they were say “Air Supply”. I would have been checking every inch of my body for an inappropriate something all day. Never thinking
    “supply” from “suppri”. I need to get out of Texas more.

    Ummm I don’t think you want to look like Keith Richards or any of that lot. Take the compliment and run.

  • Whilst we’re making this enjoyable detour through British TV comedy, I’d like to trump Stan’s nomination of Minder by plumping for Only Fools And Horses as one of the greatest of all time. Another, more contemporary, great comedy is Ideal. Both of them can literally have me rolling on the floor in hysterical laughter!

  • Dr Dreadful

    Don’t like Footballer’s Wives, don’t know if you have it.

    I was so excited to get BBC America and am now so annoyed that Footballers’ Wives is the only thing that ever seems to be on.

    I hate it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a show in which every single character is so terminally unpleasant. Added to which, it’s totally unrealistic: you’re expected to believe that the major London soccer club these women’s husbands play for fields a team almost devoid of foreign players…

  • STM

    Zedd, in a government trip to Malaysia in the mid-80s, because I had longish curly hair, people kept following me around and asking for my autograph. I couldn’t work out what was going on until I went into a cafe for lunch and all the young waitstaff came up to the table and just stood there.

    I thought, “Geez, what’s going on”. Had I made some bizarre cultural gaffe by eating my laksa with a spoon or something.

    But no, they all said in unison: “Air Suppri”. Air Supply. They though I was one of the dudes out of Air Supply.

    Sigh. I wish it had been someone from a band I liked … like Mick Jagger or something.

  • STM

    Zedd: Hazell used to be my nickname. I suspect these days I’m looking more and more like Arthur Daley with a suntan.

  • Zedd


    You know I imagined you looking like that. (Nicholas Ball – Hazell). Glad to know I wasn’t disappointed.

  • STM

    My all-time favourite Pom TV show: Minder.

    A classic, too, Zedd, about a tough cockney ex-con who works for a bloke called Arthur Daley, a con-man London car-dealer spiv who’s also the “import-export business”. You know, pogo sticks from Botswana, or cheap gas masks from Taiwan that always get flogged off at inflated prices. It’s a hoot as Arthur does his hilarious, shonky, shady business deals (minded by his muscle, Terry) and the two of them stay one step ahead of the cops at all times.

    Brilliant script writing I believe by Leon Griffiths who had worked on other scripts for similarly-themed great shows with a bloke named Terry Venables (and that should ring a bell for Doc and Rosey).

    Venables was a soccer player and 1st division coach who also happened to be a typical London wide-boy. He was perfect for these scripts because he knew the lingo. He also wrote Hazell, who looks like me 🙂 Hazell is a cockney version of Phillip Marlowe – it’s another excellent show in the same mould, and another called The Sweeney – about Scotland Yard’s Flying Squad, once upon a time the only armed unit of London’s Metropolitan Police because they were mainly involved in rounding up big-time armed robbers and violent crims.

    Like I say, the key to the appeal of these is in the brilliant scripts and authentic locations around the charming streets of London.

    And yes, Clav … we did send all our second-rate actors over to Hollywood. I can think of one ham in particular, who actually pleasantly surprised me in one movie that was made in LA.

  • Zedd


    Property Ladder is one of my favorites. Don’t know if you have House Under The Hammer.. good stuff.

    Don’t like Footballer’s Wives, don’t know if you have it.

  • Zedd


    Ah the bucket woman…. My first husband would accuse me of being Mrs. Bouquet whenever I was planning a dinner party and getting too particular. My favorite characters were Onslo and his family. Rose with all of her melodramatic love episodes :o) My mom has a special affinity for poor Richard.

    I wished they had shown Sheridan just once.

    I loved the cheesy alien characters in Dr Who as well. The foamy ones were the best. They looked like they were going to stumble and topple over any minute. They always seem to sort of shuffle in a wobbly way when they walked. Personally, The Master was much more menacing and believably evil than the daleks.

    Perhaps Rove also watched Yes Minister and took the conniving to another level.

    I like the idea behind Red Dwarf. The early shows were great then it got out of control. The idea of Cat evolving into a gayish Black guy was too funny. I often wondered why they didn’t bother to explain where he got the Motown looking suits from. I think I must have missed the episodes which explained why there was just one “cat” left instead of thousands on the ship.

    Old favs are To The Manor Born, Open All Hours (or Night) with nurse Gladys Emanuel and her big….. But all time old fav is Allo Allo. It was simply brilliant!! They (we) never could understand the English spy who posed a policeman because of his broken French (broken English to us). I loved how the lower ranking Nazi officer would just abbreviate “Hail Hitler” to “La!” And Rene’ was the most unlikely Don Juan.

  • “Big problem with Aussie TV is the actors … most of ’em can’t act. They take ham to new heights.”

    …And then you ship ’em over here…

  • Zedd


    YES! That’s it. Thank you!! I have been trying to remember the title of that show for years. I’d be in a conversation about television with someone and would try to recall that show and just never squeeze it out of my goobered nogin. You really felt that Arthur’s pain. The acting was indeed good. Thanks again.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Evening Zedd.

    The original Office was just starting when I emigrated. I didn’t watch it much because it was on opposite something else I wanted to see. I’m surprised the US version caught on the way it did, because it’s a piss-take of British TV’s obsession with so-called “fly on the wall” documentaries, in which a camera crew basically follows a group of people around in the course of their daily lives just to see what will happen. You don’t really have those kind of shows in America, except for Cops. Britons love to be nosy neighbors: just about everything has been done, from the health service to airport workers to newlyweds. The joke with The Office is that everyone works in an office anyway, so the viewers are really spying on themselves.

    BTW, the Aussies have a show called Kath and Kim which works on a similar principle. It’s also largely ad-libbed and chronicles the lives and loves of a marginally fictional working-class mother and daughter from Melbourne. It’s hilarious, but I don’t know if we can get it in America.

    Ah, Dr Who and the Daleks… Yes, it’s hard to put your finger on quite why they were seen as so scary, but there is definitely something unnerving about them. From your description it sounds as if the new show has picked up kind of where the Sylvester McCoy era left off, sadly. The charm of the original show, back in the “good old days” was its wonky sets, unconvincing monsters, dodgy special effects, hammy dialogue and cliffhanger endings. It’s not the same if it’s just one more “sophisticated” sci-fi series.

    I think you’ve been watching the first “revival” season with Christopher Eccleston as the Doctor. He will indeed be reincarnated in the next season. The new Doctor is David Tennant – whom you may have seen as the evil Barty Crouch in the last Harry Potter movie.

    I love PBS: I think I would have gone insane in America without it. They do love their “Britcoms”, as they call them. We don’t get Yes, Minister in our part of California, unfortunately. One of the cleverest shows ever brought to the screen, and perfectly cast. I loved how poor Jim Hacker was almost always outwitted by his scheming private secretary, Sir Humphrey Appleby. It made it all the sweeter and funnier on those rare occasions when Hacker actually did get the better of Humphrey.

    Yes, Minister was one of Margaret Thatcher’s favorite shows. She said it painted a more accurate picture of Westminster life than any journalist could.

    My favorite PBS “Britcom” that we get in our area is Keeping Up Appearances, the show about the upwardly-mobile housewife from hell. Does that come on in Texas?

  • STM

    Doc, I’m glad to hear you finally bit the bullet and got cable. I only got it in 1998 because the only rugby games you get on free-to-air were internationals involving Australia … no Super 12, no Six Nations, no English club premiership, no Heineken Cup. Ah, how my eyes were opened.

    Now I coulden’t live without my 300 channels of nothing. I love the pommy Lifestyle Channel shows like Grand Designs and Property Ladder (makes me nostalgic for the Old Dart, it does), and we have a channel here on cable called UKTV. Last night, I stayed up till all hours waiting for the latest re-run of Minder. It’s the latest series, with Ray taking Terry’s job. What a hoot. Last night, Arthur got stuck in a lift while they were putting stuff back in a warehouse they’d broken into to. I nearly pissed meself laughing. Even the dog started barking. I would imagine like most Poms you’d be a fan of the show. Brilliant scriptwriting, and good, hilarious acting.

    Zedd: the show was called Mother and Son, starring Garry McDonald and Ruth Cracknell. Very funny, and one of the few examples of decent Australian television writing. Big problem with Aussie TV is the actors … most of ’em can’t act. They take ham to new heights.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Hey, this “Billybob” character I see in the Fresh Comments box up top… That one’s SR too, right?

  • Dr Dreadful

    STM (that horrid Australian boy) wrote: Well, we know the Poms are revolting …

    Dr Dreadful [fingers in ears]: “Not listening! Not listening! Rule Britannia! David Beckham! PG Tips! Mmmmmmm….”

    Jeez, I’m starting to sound like Maggie Thatcher…

  • STM

    RJ wrote: “Yeah, the UK is a lot better off, right? LOL… :-/”

    Well, we know the Poms are revolting … but I don’t think they’re in much danger of having a revolution. In all seriousness, they haven’t been divided the way America is today since the Maggie Thatcher era (she used a war to to try to cement her position as well).

    And us … well, we just cruise along, hoping it’ll fu.king rain. That’s our main worry at the moment.

  • Zedd


    There was an Australian sit com that I used to watch maybe 20yrs ago with a character named Arthur and a naughty and periodically conveniently senile mother and bum of a brother who the mother preferred. I can never remember the name of that show. Do you recall such a thing?

    They got the elderly mom dynamic so right. The frustration and twilight zone experiences which come with it sometime…

  • Zedd


    Yes it is on BBC America. You just missed the end of the season. They said its coming back in January.

    I was disappointed at first because it seems rather gloomy and dark. However, after a while I got hooked. Just then, it ended. It looks like he will be having another incarnation next season. I liked this last guy though.

    On the last show the daleks are about to take over the earth.

    I never could figure out why they were supposed to be scary. They still look the same on the new series. I felt like such a dork when I got excited when they said “ex-ter-mi-nate!”.

    Tom Baker was my favorite as well. The current version has a lot of his qualities (he’s also cute). The Collin Baker and Sylvester McCoy characters were a bit too campy. Believe it or not, I liked the original black and white version with the old man.

    I’m such a nerd, when I hear the zither music ((((wooooweeeewoooo…)))) come on I get all giddy inside. Perhaps its more a hearkening to my youth.

    You can catch some new episodes on some public television stations. Ours is great in Dallas and has a lot of British Television, although they still play “Are You Being Served” on Sunday nights. After high school, “Yes Minister” is what got me interested in the politics behind politics. I don’t think that show could be done today without some sort of homosexual innuendo.

    Six years? So you never caught the British version of the office? The funniest thing I’ve ever seen on television EVER! I’m laughing just thinking about it. The first time it came on my public TV station I thought it was a real documentary and turned it off. The first time I actually watched it was around two in the morning and I thought I was imagining it. I was in the room by myself and kept looking around to see if anyone was going to jump in and say I was being ribbed. FUNNY!

  • Dr Dreadful


    My online alias should tell you all you need to know!

    Just kidding… Unfortunately I haven’t seen any Dr Who since the revival. I’ve been in the US for six years but we only finally caved and got cable a couple of weeks ago.

    I loved the old Dr Who (especially when Tom Baker played him) but felt that by the end of the Sylvester McCoy incarnation it had departed so far from the original spirit of the show that it was almost a relief when it was cancelled. I did catch the one-off TV movie starring Paul McGann that came out about ten years ago – that was OK, if a bit too pandering to American audiences. Was surprised when nothing span off that.

    As soon as I track down the channel that carries the show I’ll check it out and get back to you. Oddly enough, it doesn’t seem to be BBC America.

  • Dr Dreadful

    OK, Dave, I went back and re-read it. My apologies. I guess I missed the sarcasm in your opener, “Very cogently put, Selwyn.”

  • Kudos for reminding Dave and RJ that the ability to couch your opinions in coherent sentences doesn’t automatically make them bullshit-free.

    Dr. D. That’s exactly what I said about this article in my first comment. You seem to be missing something here. I agree with Ruvy and disagree withj RJ.


  • Zedd


    What do you think of the new Dr. Who? Were you a fan of the original?

  • Zedd


    I think that Selwyn posts these types of articles to “recruit” people who are concerned about immigration to twist their practical concerns into bigotedness. Don’t be a sucker.

    Understand the issue of immigration. Know how NAFTA plays a role in displacing farmers in Mexico and how that contributes to their poverty and their migration. Understand that the idea of there not being people to perform those jobs in this countries, is a lie. Unemployment among Black males is over 8%. They did those jobs for decades if not centuries. They just started wanting to be paid a fair wage. The culprits are the employers. They want people who are afraid and desperate, to manipulate (like Blacks used to be prior to the 70’s).

    This man promotes hatred and there is nothing rational about his argument. His statements about “third worlders” coming to change this nation don’t make sense. The European immigrants of the last century lived much like the people in Calcutta, Lagos, or Bangkok live today, in Europe 60yrs ago. Its ignorance at its best.

    If you want to discuss immigration, there are a number of other threads running in BC that discuss this issue. Unless you also espouse outmoded ideas from the 1800s about homo sapiens or are so under educated that you fall for anything that sounds just complicated enough to intimidate you into belief, otherwise, leave this fool whistling in the wind.

    Its rather odd that adults actually waist their time capaigning for people to hate other people. Worse than highschool. I wonder why?

  • Dr Dreadful

    Ruvy, I have to confess that many of your posts leave me cringeing, but this one made me want to stand up and applaud!

    Kudos for reminding Dave and RJ that the ability to couch your opinions in coherent sentences doesn’t automatically make them bullshit-free.

  • “Actually, in the era you’re alluding to there were some restrictions on immigration and it was just as controversial an issue then as now.”

    That immigration was always controversial I knew, but I think the first formal restriction was the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882; the sort of progressive legislation that Selwyn wishes were back on the statute book…

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Let’s cut this article to one simple sentence, Selwyn. It summarizes your article more than you would like it to, and it is the “truth” you would have your readers buy.

    “The Spics, Niggers, Gooks, Chinks, Ragheads and all the other shit from the Third World are too damned corrupt and crooked to appreciate the wonder that is America, and they don’t deserve to be here; if we let them in and they corrupt our country, we’ll get fucked over but good and it’ll be our own damned fault.”

    All you gotta do is sign on the _______________ dotted line.

    Sixty words that sound just like the nativist shit that could have been found all over America 87 years ago.

  • troll

    answer to #2 = New York

  • MCH

    “I don’t appreciate being called a racist for supporting the enforcement of federal law, and with the majority of the American people in agreement with me. Especially by a fellow conservative.”

    Methinks thou doth whine too much….

  • Graham McKnight

    What filth.

  • Didn’t the USA become great partly because of unrestricted immigration?

    Actually, in the era you’re alluding to there were some restrictions on immigration and it was just as controversial an issue then as now.

    Conservatives usually love to look back and say how great it was in ‘t’ old days. Why not in this case?

    Damned if I know. First generation immigrants are a smaller percentage of the population today – including the illegals – than they were in 1900. Why is all of this an issue at all?


  • When have ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ever cooperated with the law in the past?

    If they had cooperated with the law in the past, this wouldn’t even be an issue, would it?

    If the law conforms to the needs of immigrants, employers and society in general, then the motivation will be to obey it rather than flout it.

    These are not people who break the law out of viciousness or a will to do wrong. They break the law because the law is wrong and out of sync with reality. We need to recognize that and find a way to deal with it.

    Laws are NOT sacred, only rights are.


  • Didn’t the USA become great partly because of unrestricted immigration?

    “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    Conservatives usually love to look back and say how great it was in ‘t’ old days. Why not in this case?

  • RJ

    Yeah, the UK is a lot better off, right? LOL… :-/

  • STM

    “We are a hop, a skip, and a jump away from either a revolution of some kind, or, lacking that, a devolution. Take your pick.”

    If only those founding fathers had realised the price to be paid 200 years down the track from breaking with the Crown.

    It’s never too late to come back, though RJ.

  • The immigration issue is peripheral to the main problems in the country, and while people oppose amnesty, they do NOT oppose a guest worker program.

    In a Time Magazine poll 79% supported the idea of a guest worker program. That’s an overwhelming level of support. In the same poll only 47% wanted to deport illegals.

    What the people want, in this instance, is to keep the illegals as workers while not letting them become citizens with an amnesty.


  • RJ

    “With a legal way to work here they’ll cooperate with the law”

    Dave: When have ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ever cooperated with the law in the past?

    If they had cooperated with the law in the past, this wouldn’t even be an issue, would it?

  • RJ

    “My most recent articles object to the current immigration bill, but for sensible reasons, not the racist crap you have decided to support here.”

    I don’t appreciate being called a racist for supporting the enforcement of federal law, and with the majority of the American people in agreement with me. Especially by a fellow conservative.

    But I guess Pat Buchanan and Mickey Kaus and Peggy Noonan and Ann Coulter were all right: This is the issue that will divide and destroy the Republican Party.

    Hillary in 2008…in a fucking LANDSLIDE!!!

  • RJ

    Let’s look at the larger picture, people!

    -About 3 in 4 Americans believe our country is on the “wrong track”

    -President Bush has a favorable rating of just over 30%

    -The Congress (run by Democrats in both houses) has a favorable rating just over…30%

    -A majority of Americans think we are losing in Iraq, and in the larger “war on terrorism” as well

    -A majority of Americans oppose amnesty, and want stronger enforcement at the southern border

    Basically, the PEOPLE are in rebellion, just not open rebellion (yet).

    They hate the President. They hate the Congress. They hate Republicans. They hate Democrats.

    They think we are headed in the wrong direction, as a nation.

    They want more border security. They want fewer illegals crossing the border. They don’t want their jobs taken by illegals, and they don’t want their jobs outsourced to another country.

    The economy is bordering on recession, energy prices are up, inflation is up, the housing market is in free-fall, our trade deficit is at a record high, our budget deficit is still in the hundreds of billions, our entitlement programs remain unreformed and underfunded, and our Presidential candidates are not exactly titillating the base (right or left).

    We are a hop, a skip, and a jump away from either a revolution of some kind, or, lacking that, a devolution. Take your pick.

    Our immigration/borders debate is merely a symptom of the main problem. We aren’t even a real country anymore.

  • RJ, go read my articles on immigration and dispute what I actually believe, rather than making shit up.

    My most recent articles object to the current immigration bill, but for sensible reasons, not the racist crap you have decided to support here.

    What we need is a strong guest worker program to provide the labor we need while maintaining control over that population. Put the illegals into the guest worker program and let a small number of the best ones move on to citizenship. With a legal way to work here they’ll cooperate with the law, we make it as hard as hell to work without a guest worker visa, and send those who don’t get with the program back to Mexico. No more jumping the border because there will be a system to let them in legally.


  • RJ

    “I wasn’t suggesting letting everyone on earth into the US.”

    So…not everyone. Just the 10-20 million who have easy access to our country because of our undefended southern border.

    [borat]That makes sense, NOT![/borat]

  • STM

    Seriously Dave? What, blond tips and what-not? A few touch-ups here and there? A bit of white pancake make-up?

    In Selwyn’s case, half his luck if he really is of latino background. I actually do have blond hair and blue eyes, and have to cover up all the time to protect from the strong sun. I always need sunglasses and have to wear a long-sleeved wetsuit vest all through summer and whack a litre of sunscreen on my face every time I go for a surf after 10am or before 4pm. In this climate, it’s a drawback to be fair and I’m envious of my olive-skinned son who goes in the surf for 15 minutes and is suntanned for the next year.

    I even used to dye my hair dark once upon a time so people wouldn’t think of me as “blond”. Didn’t work.

    Clav, meanwhile, considering his background, looks suprisingly like a Viking who took a wrong turn in the longboat at the Mexican coast. Erik O’Clavos 🙂

  • RJ

    “As for California, if it’s gone so far down the tubes and abandonned the legacy of Reagan, how is it that their governor is the closest thing we’ve got in contemporary politics to another Reagan?”

    I hope you’re kidding. Arnold is about as much a Reagan conservative as Dubya is a Goldwater Republican…

  • RJ

    “For that matter have you ever spoken to a first-generation Mexican immigrant? If you had you’d realize that one of the reasons they come here is to get away from the oppression of their home country, and once here they treasure the rights we honor that they had to live so long without.”

    Then why did we see all those Mexican flags waving during their MAY DAY protest marches the last couple years, Dave?

  • RJ, that was not the point here. I wasn’t suggesting letting everyone on earth into the US. Duke argued that Mexicans are inherently corrupt and spreaders of corruption because they have a corrupt system in Mexico. I was merely pointing out the flipside of that argument.


  • RJ

    “Has it ever occured to you that people in Mexico don’t like living under a corrupt regime?”

    Has it ever occurred to you that there are literally billions of people around the world who live under corrupt regimes (Zimbabwe, Red China, Venezuela, etc.), and don’t like it, and would rather live in the US, but that we can’t let them all in???

  • RJ

    “More racist filth from David Duke’s evil twin.”

    Name-calling like this is prohibited by BC’s comments rules. Also, it’s a logical fallacy to attack the messenger.

    “I suppose it never occurred to you that one of the reasons “Third Worlders” come here is precisely because they are trying to escape the corruption? Or that Mexican police are corrupt because they aren’t paid a living wage?”

    Sounds like Mexico’s problem. Why is it in the best interests of the United States and the American people to make it our problem?

  • RJ

    Clavos calls the author a racist. Dave says this writer is one of the few non-trailer-dwelling, semi-literate individuals who supports this political position.

    Meanwhile, poll after poll indicates that the vast majority of actual American citizens don’t want to reward the people who broke into this country illegally with easy citizenship. They also would like to see our borders actually defended. They also would like to have our current immigration laws enforced. They also would like to make English the official language.

    But, I guess they are all just racist, illiterate, trailer-park-dwelling scum. You know, like that bigoted moron Lou Dobbs.

    (And this, from some of our most conservative contributors!)

  • Has anyone noticed that Selwyn looks distinctly latino?

    Only in the older photos. In newer ones it looks like he’s upgraded his hair to look a bit more aryan.


  • STM

    Plato, as a Greek and a champion of democracy, enjoyed mass debating as well. Washington, Westminster and Canberra are also full of mass debaters.

    Google images will get you Selwyn, Doc, swarthy fellow that he is.

  • Dr Dreadful

    STM wondered:

    Has anyone noticed that Selwyn looks distinctly latino?

    Which one is Selwyn? There are a lot of portraits at the top of his homepage, none of whom look particularly Hispanic.

    My money is on the really ugly bastard, fourth from the right. Plato, is it?

  • STM

    I think, in truth, some people are too frightened to come and debate us one at a time (as themselves), because what they really prefer is mass debating.

  • Go fer it, mates; I’ve already had my say…

  • Dr Dreadful

    Dave, you’re wearing out your keyboard over nothing. Selwyn won’t respond to your questions as he never returns to survey comments on his screeds.

    So, Stan, wanna hijack this thread as well? Or are we still having too much fun on the other one?

  • STM

    Has anyone noticed that Selwyn looks distinctly latino?

  • Very cogently put, Selwyn. It troubles me occasionally that there are a few nativists like yourself who can put two sentences together and make a historical reference. Fortunately it’s such a tiny minority in the mass of crackpots living in trailers that no one rational is going to get fooled by the few of you who can put pretty words around an ugly attitude.

    To the article. Has it ever occured to you that people in Mexico don’t like living under a corrupt regime? Have you considered how much more abusive their police are towards them than towards a gringo who might have some clout to get them in trouble? For that matter have you ever spoken to a first-generation Mexican immigrant? If you had you’d realize that one of the reasons they come here is to get away from the oppression of their home country, and once here they treasure the rights we honor that they had to live so long without.

    As for California, if it’s gone so far down the tubes and abandonned the legacy of Reagan, how is it that their governor is the closest thing we’ve got in contemporary politics to another Reagan?

    And you seem a bit off on Arizona as well. Kyl is one of the most genuinely conservative Republicans we have in office right now, and McCain isn’t far behind him. Despite all the rhetoric directed against them they are consiervative leaning to libertarian on most issue. Check their ratings sometime. They’re stronger on almost all conservative core issues than 80% of the other elected GOP members. If two such staunch conservatives have thought immigration through and come from states where they’ve had direct contact with immigrants, might it not be significant that they favor a relatively welcoming immigration policy? Maybe they know something you don’t.

    BTW, what state do you live in?


  • More racist filth from David Duke’s evil twin.

    I suppose it never occurred to you that one of the reasons “Third Worlders” come here is precisely because they are trying to escape the corruption? Or that Mexican police are corrupt because they aren’t paid a living wage?

    Why didn’t you present Florida in your analysis of states with large “Third World” populations? Florida has a larger immigrant percentage of its population than Arizona, by far.

    Could it be you left Florida out because the story of Third World immigration here is an unqualified success?