It's a ridiculous argument to say games like this are targeted towards children. Putting this game on CNN every day and having politicians rip it apart once a week make a kid want this. If your child is playing ANY version of this game and you didn't know about it, you deserve to have child protective services start an investigation in your home. If you have discussed the difference between reality and fantasy with your child and feel he is adequately prepared to play, thank you. You're raising a well-mannered child and (gasp!) are talking to him.
Besides, is this sex scene some huge deal? No, it's not. Certain people want you to believe it is. If you know where to look, you can find a video of the sequence. It's widely available already. It's so ridiculous and stupid to say this is the point where video games draw the line. Nothing there is worse than an R rated film. Genitalia aren't even visible.
For once, people need to stop believing what the 5 o'clock news tells them. If your 8-year old child has GTA: SA and manages to download a mod to see a brief sex scene, that's your fault, not Rockstar's. If you feel that your child is old enough to understand GTA: SA, this doesn't make a difference.
Edited: bhw
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - GamePolitics
I don't think the issue here is whether or not GTA:SA is appropriate for 17 or 18 year olds.
To me, the larger issue is, did Rockstar fail to disclose the sex animation?
The game industry goes way out on a limb battling critics every time Rockstar releases a new GTA or a game like Manhunt. If Rockstar isn't going to play by the ratings rules, or is willing to leave the ESRB vulnerable to this kind of attack, that's a problem that has to be dealt with.
After this mess, which is only going to get worse in the next few weeks, I'm sure the industry will lay down the law....
Of course, it still remains to be seen exactly what happened here. It's not been proven that Rockstar put the content on the DVD, although it seems very possible.
And that's another problem for the industry...they've been "investigating" this for weeks. Seems like the kind of thing you could resolve with a phone call.
2 - Aaman
So how does one access this clip, and is this valid for the XBox?
3 - Matt Paprocki
Here's the way I see it. I understand the ESRB complaint and trouble. However, this was NEVER meant to accessed by anyone playing the game. It was dead code. Tiger Woods '99 on the PS One had the South Park episode Trey and Matt did for Christmas cards. The game was rated E. It slipped out. This stuff happens.
If someone hacks into it, then they hacked into it. Their submission to the ESRB should not cover any mods made to the game, whether or not the code exists on the disc or not. Should all the "Nude" Raider codes be counted against Eidos? No.
Aaman: just search for "Hot coffee GTA" and see what comes up. You'll find it. Not sure if it works on the Xbox, but it does on the PS2 so I don't see why not.
4 - Aaman
Very interesting - from one site,
5 - Tan The Man
It's pretty easy to download real porn off of the internet. If a kid wants to see computer animated porn rather than actual human porn, then I think there's even more of a problem than the one already pointed out.
6 - Matthew T. Sussman
>> Putting this game on CNN every day and having politician's rip it apart once a week make a kid want this.
Kids watch CNN?
7 - GamePolitics
Matt, you can't say for sure that the material was never meant to be accessed.
No one is more edgy than Rockstar. If they left it on there, perhaps it was as a joke, or a way to build some buzz. According to the Dutch modder who unlocked it, only one bit had to be toggled to unlock it.
It wasn't part of the scripted game play as released, that's for certain.
Also, it's really not relevant to compare what happens with a GTA title to the Tiger Woods 99 thing. GTA is a lightning rod for critics. If Rockstar did this, they were really tempting fate. There are legions of critics just waiting to pounce on them, and it puts the entire industry behing the 8-ball.
8 - RJ
"It's pretty easy to download real porn off of the internet. If a kid wants to see computer animated porn rather than actual human porn, then I think there's even more of a problem than the one already pointed out."
Great point, Tan! :)
9 - Matt Paprocki
Right, Rockstar is edgy. They know how to generate media frenzy. They also know that sex in the country is, for whatever reason, considered far more immoral than shooting a digital cop in the head.
To me, it seems like the sequence was created late, they said better not put it in there, locked it up, and shipped them out. If they wanted it in there, they would have left it. They're Rockstar. If anyone is going to do it, it's them.
Besides, God of War did it. Maybe not as graphic as it is here, but the point is sure as hell the same. The only reason this is even an issue is because it's GTA, as you said.
10 - RJ
Rockstar should send free copies of GTA III to all 525 Congressional addresses, and videotape how these members of the House and Senate, and their aides, respond to shooting cops in the head, and clubbing hookers to death.
I expect they would find no dearth of mirth...
11 - RJ
535*
12 - bhw
My guess is that if the publisher really intended that nobody ever see the clip, it wouldn't have found its way on the disc.
Its mere presence basically proves intent, in my opinion.
But whether or not the content is appropriate for the age group is another matter.
13 - jack thompson
I'm the lawyer the video game industry loves to hate. The fact is, Take Two/Rockstar, along with Sony, have used the ESA/ESRB, of which they are both charter members, as foxes guarding the henhouse.
I have said publicly, for years, that the ESRB rating system is a sham, and now it is proven to be even more of a sham than we even knew. The M rating is routinely ignored by retailers, which makes all the cries of all of you gamers that "Oh, it's age rated" ridiculous. When a Target store sells an M-rated game to a 14-year-old, it is clear the rating system is being flouted.
Take Two knew about this Hot Coffee scandal a full 23 days ago, and so did ESA. What have they done? Nothing. This proves further that the ESA/ESRB is not watchdog. It is a lapdog. It's fees are all paid by the companies whom it is supposed to oversee. This is a joke, and it is this arrangement that spawns scandal.
Rockstar was asked, point blank this past week, by countless media, to deny categorically that it put this Easter Egg in the game. It refused to do so. Need more be known?
Finally, brain scan studies out of Harvard, Indiana University, and elsewhere prove the damage done to adolescent and teen brains by these types of games. All of you gamers who cry out: "Oooooh, there is no proof that these games harm anyone" need to google "flat earth society," because you ought to join that collection of know-nothings as well.
The games are rated M because they are harmful to kids, and the companies market and sell them to kids anyway. When you find that the M rating is even deficient because of fraud, you have a recipe for destroying the sociopaths at Rockstar, which is precisely what I aim to do and will do.
You all have a nice day. And if you can, you all get a life. Get outside and get some exercise instead of autostimulating yourselves with your pixelated fantasies. Jack Thompson
PS: If anyone emails me directly, I'll take the appropriate measures.
14 - Justene
Yes, Mr. Thompson is a lawyer and therefore knows better than the rest of you. Not only that, but you may not have an opinion different than his.
Unfortunately, that portion of my bar license fell off in the mail.
15 - Matt Paprocki
Ok, the chances of that being Jack Thompson are a million to one, but just in case:
How many times have you taken a parent to court to sue a company?
How much do you charge?
How many of those cases have you won? Oh wait, I'll answer that: NONE. You're a fraud who takes stupid people's money. Thank you.
Rockstar knew it was there, but it's no an easter egg. It requires hacking into the games code to access it.
And it's not Target's fault a 14-year old is buying GTA. It's the parents. Until someone like yourself realize that, this isn't going to change. How about trying to make parents do what they're supposed to do? Better yet, lets take parents to court for letting their kids play this stuff.
And if they do damage kids, fine. I'll say to this day they don't, and the studies mean nothing. If they did, we would have millions of kids running around carjacking people. Juvenile crime rates wouldn't be at their lowest rates since 1984. They shouldn't have them in the first place. It's irrelavant. Rockstar doesn't market these games to kids. You do.
16 - Matt Paprocki
BHW: No, there's a chance it was submitted to the ESRB. They said no, Rockstar locked it. Taking it out could cause countless problems as far as glitches are concered. That code links everything together. You can't just remove it without testing the hell out of it at that point.
17 - Nick Jones
Downloads and a
minute-and-a-half video available here.
18 - Nick Jones
Mr. Thompson:
As an adult Fan of the GTA series, I find your comments insulting, ill-informed, and fabricated for a particularly slanted agenda.
University studies show brain damage in "teens and adolescents" (those two terms are equivalent, by the way)? Really? Video and computer games cause organic brain damage? I think that's rather unlikely. The only Harvard study I've heard of was of adrenalin levels in players of violent games, and was pretty much debunked years ago. You should see my adrenalin levels when I'm playing a puzzle game, trying to get those last pieces positioned before the clock runs out.
"The M rating is routinely ignored by retailers...when a Target store sells an M-rated game to a 14-year-old, it is clear the rating system is being flouted." Yes, but not by Take Two/Rockstar, as you seem to think, and as much as admit.
I have to go now (off to War of the Worlds), but I would ask Mr. Thompson one more thing:
Have you ever heard the expression, "Bite my ass, it's a peach"?
19 - Geek's Girl
The really cool thing about kids is that they grow up. Yes folks, presuming they survive the horrors that are childhood,kids grow up to become adults. In fact, people are generally adults for a lot longer then they are kids.
So why oh why does everything in this world have to be geared towards kids? Why is it not okay to have stuff (books, movies, games) that are meant for adults? We work hard to provide for our families, give our kids better then what we had growing up. Yet it seems that we're not supposed to have anything that is 'adult' (and I'm not referring to pornography only).
If we adults cannot handle or deal with violence, sex and nudity in films and games then we don't need to go see or play these things. We're adults, we get to make these choices. Hell there are even warning labels on the covers so we don't have to find these things out the hard way.
As for letting our kids experience these things? Well, they are our kids hence we are responsible. I mean we are the parents, we are the adults, aren't we?
20 - gye
i am 13 and i watch the news every day
this mod is so had to do no kid could do it
21 - jack thompson
All you gamers should be insulted by my comments about how you waste your time with your pixelated fantasies. You're supposed to be insulted, to wake you up. Get some lives, people.
Finally, how many cases have I won? Some you haven't heard of because of your preoccupation with your pixelated fantasies.
I was the one on 60 Minutes, and you all were not, for a reason.
You all are worried that we are on to something, especially now that Take Two has been found to have engaged in yet another fraud.
22 - bhw
BHW: No, there's a chance it was submitted to the ESRB. They said no, Rockstar locked it. Taking it out could cause countless problems as far as glitches are concered. That code links everything together. You can't just remove it without testing the hell out of it at that point.
But that's the cost of doing business and Rockstar's problem to solve. They know that people look for easter eggs and publish code to unlock them. The mod thing is encouraged in the market. So Rockstar is still responsible for the content on that disc.
23 - jack thompson
A poster says its would "cause countless problems" for Rockstar if it had takent he Hot Coffee sex scenes out of the game. Oh, I get it now. We can't have problems for Rockstar; but we can tolerate problems arising from kids', teen males, simulating oral, anal, and rough sex. Those "countless problems" we can tolerate. We can't tolerate any problems though for a company that has made hundreds of millions of dollars marketing adult games to kids. Give me a freaking break.
24 - Matt Paprocki
Who gives a rats ass if you were on 60 Minutes? You didn't win anything in court, and you never will. Your case is a joke, and you're the modern equivalant of someone running into a crowded theater and yelling "fire!" Why don't you chase some ambulances while you're at it?
And yes, you're right. We all need lives. I mean, people who watch movies or read books should stop too because those are fantasies. God forbid is we do ANYTHING entertaining anymore. Hey, lets go play Dungeons and Dragons too. Oh wait, that will turn us into Satan worshippers. Funny how it's still around though and no one complains, huh?
BHW: No, this isn't just an easter egg. It requires a mod to work. Is Eidos or Tecmo responsible for the nude hacks? No, of course not.
Besides, we're discussing a sex scene in a game where cops are shot and blown up. What's the big deal about sex in a game like this? This country is so overblown when it comes to sex. This is hardly a major issue. Unfortunately, some people make it out to be.
25 - bhw
But if the sex scene puts it over the ratings' edge, then that's the issue. If the ratings are stoopid to begin with, that's another problem. As it is, the publishers have to adhere to the ratings that exist now, whether or not they make sense.
The defining line for me is that the content is on the disc AND that mods are a well-known and welcomed part of the culture. It's very easy to argue that the content was put on the disc with the intent that a mod developer would write the code to access it.