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Forget Detention, Just Tell Everyone You’re Gay

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It’s been a little quiet in the ongoing battle between Texas and Florida for which state has the title of most intolerant and stupid population. Florida, who was already winning the homophobia category, put the final nail in Texas to win the 2005 top honors with this gem:

In an elementary school in Orange Park, FL, two 6th graders we’re mouthing words to each other while the teacher was lecturing. Not an uncommon occurrence, about on par with passing notes and whispering, something each of us has done at one time or another. While it is often considered rude by teachers, usually students face admonishment, detention or in rare circumstances, a trip to the Prinicipal’s office.

But not in Florida. No, teacher Larry Eager decided to really teach these kids a lesson, by making them get up in front of the class and tell everyone they were gay. That’s right, this brilliant genius, who up until a couple of days ago was teaching children, thought it would be a good idea to get these kids up and make them sit closely next to each other with their knees touching and holding hands and announcing to the class that they were gay.

It goes without saying that this kind of humiliation technique is completely inappropriate for a teacher to engage in, as well as it being a little overboard for kids, who were probably not paying close attention, but also not disrupting class in any way.

But the larger issue is the idea that being gay is some sort of punishment and should be considered a thing that was a threat or humiliation. It just goes to show how deep this kind of bigotry runs in this country.

Remember that guy (from Florida) who beat his 3 year old kid to death because he thought he was gay? Remember those other kids (in Florida) who burned down the home of two gay men? Where do you think that kind of mentality comes from? Right here in this school. This teacher was obviously way out of bounds, but for someone who is obviously educated enough to be a teacher to think that this kind of thing was OK, is wrong on so many levels.

This sort of behavior maintains the idea that being gay is so horrible that you should be traumatized for life or killed because of it. It’s absolutely outrageous that this teacher did this, but I also think it is even more outrageous and contemptible that the teacher resigned. Good riddance you say? You bet, but that means he wasn’t fired immediately. He was put on 97-day probation. To me that says that the teacher was only disciplined because the students and their parents complained.

And that’s at the heart of it. When the school, the community and the church do not openly condemn this kind of thing, but conversely give it tacit approval by not responding with definite action and also turn around and preach discrimination and hated of gays in the houses of god and seats of government – where are people supposed to learn that this is wrong?

Can we really blame this teacher for taking his hatred of gays just a step further than the church, government and community are comfortable with? Actually yes, because it’s his non-thinking, prejudiced action that is at fault, but equal blame must reside with the society that not only allows it t happen, but clandestinely condones it.

This is not the kind of country I’d be proud to call home.

This article originally appeared on The Rudicus Report. ED/PUB:LM

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About Rudicus

  • nugget

    I go to church. Is it my fault too?

    just kidding.

    I don’t condone that action. That man is dumb and if I were in that school’s administration I would have seen to his immediate resignation.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    I’m not blaming church per se, but they do come out especially strong against homosexuals – particularly in Florida and the rest of the south.

  • nugget

    some churches do, yes. Not mine. There are many in the south that welcome homosexuals into their congregations. These are typically the best churches. They are ones that steer clear of political muck and are more likely to snarl at an unapologetic discussant of current affairs. These churches leave the issue of homosexuality as a private choice and leave personal opinions to each member.

    On the other hand, they don’t say “Hey Homosexuals your are welcome here!!!”, because to do so would imply that they are fighting some cause, prefering homosexuals to other types of would-be members.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    Fair enough – non-rhetoric spewing churches are fine, and I agree that ones that are all-inclusive tend to be better – from a diversity perspective.

  • teacher

    Reminds me of the hypochondriac who sees a pimple and concludes it’s a case of leprosy.

  • steve

    Texas and Florida are two of our great states. Their morality is frowned upon by the immoral homosexuals in our great country. They should all be ashamed.

  • http://dumpsterbust.blogspot.com/ Eric Berlin

    There’s a reason why the Germany or Florida game exists.

  • http://rudicusreport.blogspot.com/ Prosthetic Lips

    As a member of a church in Middleburg (shares a border with Orange Park), I can say that many churches are open to homosexuals. However, we also believe that homosexuality is a sin. How, you might ask, can you reconcile this? Well, we all sin (act counter to how God wants you to act), so we all need to be accepted (and corrected).

    If someone is cheating on their spouse, you would discipline them — the same is true for any sin, including homosexuality or stealing. That doesn’t mean that someone who sins cannot go to church, or be accepted, but it does mean that we try to keep ourselves from sinning.

    Do I condemn the teacher? Yes! Wrong is wrong, no matter if the community supports or condones it. The same is true for other wrongs: looting in New Orleans (how many Reebok’s do you really need?), beatings (Rodney King), etc.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    This doesn’t even come close to a religious issue. The teacher is in a public school system, being paid by the taxpayers. He is charged with educating children not instigating immoral behavior. He committed an indirect hate crime. In an ideal world he would be prosecuted for accepting government funds under false pretenses. He was paid to educate not obfuscate.

    P.S. If there is any way to prosecute this guy, to me the fairest punishment would be 160 hours of community service in a cosmetology school.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    I wouldn’t equate homosexuality with stealing and beating people – that’s probably where the problem comes in. But your opinions about homosexuality aside, the point of the article was that these kids weren’t gay, the teacher was using the gay thing as a punishment – which is not only wrong but morally reprehensible.

    And I’m sorry, but no God could call himself benevolent if his policies included bigotry and discrimination as part of the belief system. Plus, why is it that Christians can’t accept that others have different beliefs and that those beliefs are no less valid than their own.

    I do not beleive that your God exists and I think that your belief system preaches hate and division among people and is in fact the single greatest threat to civilization as we know it.

    But at the same time, I do not go around condemning you or trying to change laws to prevent you from living life as a Christian in the privacy of your own home, nor do I beleive that Christians should be stopped, no matter how delusional or dangerous they may be.

    Why is it that you cannot do the same?

  • nugget

    “I do not beleive that your God exists and I think that your belief system preaches hate and division among people and is in fact the single greatest threat to civilization as we know it.”

    Easy there Rudicus. Let’s not let this thread run the wrong way. I understand your point in response to Prosthetic Lips, but if you think Christians are that dangerous, then I wouldn’t be throwing the word “delusional” around so recklessly if I were you.

    Also, I am a christian. I condemn what that man did. do you not want to use me as an example of a tolerant and informed person who is a christian? Or should I be sniffing for an agenda?

    Let’s not bring “all churches” and “your God” into this. Clearly this man was an ignorant wretch. He was punished, perhaps not severly enough, but that’s no reason to start spouting off about churches in the south and bigotry in christianity.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    Fair enough nugget, my bad.

    And yes, Christians who are living their lives and follwing their beliefs and saying that this type of ignorance doesn’t reperesent them, is EXACTLY what is needed, since rants like mine tend to fall on deaf ears.

    Everytime I hear the “sinner” thing, it just get’s my panties in a bunch – I’ll try and control that – thanks for the course correction.

  • Shark

    Is it just me, or is the name “Larry Eager” just too rich for words!?

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Just because there are a few lunatics in Florida and Texas – like Larry Eager – don’t write off the states as a whole. The big secret is that these two states get a lot of publicity for loonies and bad policy, but that’s only because their population is so huge. There are other states – West Virginia, Maryland, Rhode Island, Idaho, New Mexico, Utah, South Carolina – which have far more dangerous crazies per capita, but their populations are small and no one ever goes and spends a lot of time there, so their dirty little secrets stay secret.

    Dave

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    Dave,

    That first bit is a reference to an ongoing game on The Rudicus Report based on an original idea that all the crazy stories seemed to come out of either Texas or Florida and that both were states involved with Bushs.

    I understand about the population thing and certainly there are crazier people elsewhere – it just sees like extremists in larger numbers tend to congregate in these two states. (It’s also in reference to things like weather, voting irregularities, redistricting plans, corruption, bribery, intimidation etc.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Yes, I understand the ‘game’, but it lacks a basis in reality. For most of the improprieties you mention in your little list, Missouri, Rhode Island and Louisiana so completely outdo Florida and Texas that there’s not even any point in considering those larger states. And as for extremists, have you HEARD of Utah and Vermont?

    Dave

  • nugget

    oh now you’re both talking inconsequential jibberish. There are crazy people everywhere. Laundry rooms, the white house, truck stops, preschools, nightclubs, churches, bars, bc.org (shark), etc.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    I’m going to assume that we’re not talking apples to apples and i’m not suggesting that Texas and Florida are the only states with challenges, but at the same time I don’t have a laundry list of nationally covered challenges from the states you mentioned like I do for Texas and Florida, so I’m going on the information I have – it’s not scientific.

    Plus no one named Bush was Governor of any of those states.

  • another extremist

    “Extremists in larger numbers tend to congregate …”

    Extreme weather – the Northeast and Midwest get battered every winter.

    Extreme voting irregularities – NYC, Boston and Chicago (to mention a few).

    Extreme redistricting plans – Massachusetts and Illinois (to mention a few).

    Extreme corruption – NYC, Boston and Chicago (to mention a few).

    Extreme bribery – NYC, Boston and Chicago (to mention a few).

    Extreme intimidation – Los Angeles street gangs (to mention #1).

    Extreme homosexual hyperbole – #15.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    Maybe this is a Blogcritics thing, but I don’t get why everyone keeps focussing on minutia in the posts and not discussing the actual theme or subject of the posts.

    I have no doubt that 50 posts from now there will be a lengthy discussion on the why Texas is better than Utah and vice versa. Maybe these post just serve as a forum for people to engage in dogmatic arguments – I have no idea.

  • wordsmith

    We should put our brains in gear before putting our mouths (or words) in motion.

    Words have consequences.

    Reduce the hyperbole and it will help everyone stick to the subject.

  • http://www.fifthdentist.blogspot.com The Fifth Dentist

    Rudicus:
    Everyone seems to agree that this teacher’s actions were criminally insane. Ironically, I think that fundamentalist christians would view the teacher’s actions as more out of bounds than a person with mainstream views toward homosexuality precisely because they would view the false accusation of being gay more negatively.

  • nugget

    rudicus: Perhaps if the article at hand wasn’t comprised with minutiae spin to begin with, focusing on the main theme wouldn’t be such a heavy task.

    I appreciate your civility thus far, but reaping the benefits of snide generalizations means sowing more in other bloggers that do the same thing. In other words, you chose the company in this thread with your writing. (no one make a joke about that because I’m posting in here, even though it would be funny)

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Rudicus, the fundamental problem here is that you picked your states because they had Bush governors rather than because they were actually particularly known for craziness. If you came out with a real littany of craziness nationwide and then classified it by state and discovered a pattern connecting it to states run by the Bushes that would be entirely different. But what you basically did was to say that only a state full of crazies and extremists would elect a Bush, with no evidence to back it up. If you start from a biased assumption like that people are going to respond to the obvious bias rather than whatever larger point you had to make.

    The gay confession incident in its own right is worthy of an article. Throwing in the backhanded slam at the Bush brothers and their states trivialized whatever genuine point you had to make on that subject.

    Dave

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    What minutiae spin are you referring to?

    If I’m guilty of doing that myself then please point it out to me.

    My commentary is that the culture of hate (my terminology) toward homosexuals and homosexuality propagated to varying degrees by the church (in general), government and community is the predominant influence behind the actions of this teacher and other acts that have occured in various places including Florida.

    And while yes this teacher is crazy and so are the other people that make the news – the culpability must be shared by those who continue to foster those feelings.

    Now if anyone wants to discuss that thesis, let’s have at it.

  • nugget

    TheFifthDentist:

    Doubtful. I’m pretty sure christian fundamentalists only get stirred if they or their family members are personally accused. Whether I believe that is fair or not doesn’t matter. Ostensibly, that is the case in my experience.

  • nugget

    rudicus: dave unveiled your spin aptly enough.

    also, no one disagrees with your thesis. Good luck finding someone who does. It’s not controversial.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    Well Dave,

    I did want to make that point about the Bushs due to my belief that the culture fostered by this administration and by association and action, this family, has not only brought this kind of thing to light, but has highlighted it in the states where they govern or had governed.

    By no means do I want to suggest that it doesn’t happen in other places as that would be silly, and I further agree that this is not scientific by any means and merely represents my opinion. At the same time, I spend a lot time on newswires and based on my observations, as faulty as they may be, there does seem to be an inordinate amount of negative news coming out of those two states.

    Now whether this is a media bias, or selective reading on my part – who can say – until someone does and actual study.

    So I’m happy to admit that I do not have any supporting evidence other than my own opinion on this point about Texas and Florida – besides I did not make the argument that Texas and Florida were worse than other states – simply that they were in competition with each other as Bush states to see which one was worse between the two – and based on news stories from the last year, my beleif is that Florida wins the homophobia category.

    If someone wants to argue that Texas is in fact more homophobic that Florida, please feel free.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    The point you miss, Rudicus, is that your attempt to associate the Bushes with the character of their states – which neither of them even grew up in – is a load of crap. There is no ‘culture fostered’ by the Bush family or the administration. That’s like the right wingers who say that Clinton’s adultery is responsible for teen pregnancy. You’ve created this idea out of whole cloth, with nothing to support it but your partisanship. That doesn’t win you any points in the getting taken seriously competition.

    Dave

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    OK Nugget,

    If everyone agrees with the thesis that the church, government and community tacitly accepts and in some cases promotes hate and bigotry toward homosexuals directly influencing the kinds of crimes we’re talking about – then I’m fine with that.

    My question would then be why would a Christian society(love thy neighbor as thyself etc.), a democratic society (all men are created equal endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights such as life liberty and the pursuit of happiness), and a society that welcomes refugees from the world continue to allow this kind of behavior and continue to sow persecution of a segment of people based simply on whom they choose to love?

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    Dave,

    I beg to differ on that point. When you have governors and presidents actively flouting the laws and/or policies of their own states and/or nation and engaging in political maneuvering to push faith-based agendas in addition to funding faith-based programs that actively encourage this type of discriminatory thinking then they have to accept culpability and are equally liable even if they weren’t born there(which I’m not sure what that has anything to do with anyway).

    There wasn’t a massive and sordid election fraud in Connecticut that stole an election away from the rightful winner. The governor of Missouri didn’t try to create illegal laws to push a faith-based pro-life agenda around a braindead blind woman and then call his brother to violate the very fabric of the constitution in an attempt to override the law when he lost.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Back to the subject matter at hand and this teacher impersonator. What troubles me is that the teacher’s actions were reprehensible yet fathers and teenage males out there whisper behind the scenes that it served those kids right. It seems that few, if any, ‘heterosexual’ males want to show any kind of empathy for gays. Lesbians are another story altogether. Rudicus brings up a very good point:

    But the larger issue is the idea that being gay is some sort of punishment and should be considered a thing that was a threat or humiliation. It just goes to show how deep this kind of bigotry runs in this country.

    Bigotry is a major problem and parents are guilty for closing their eyes to what their children are exposed to. Gays are made out to be perverse freaks. Poor people are made out to be lazy, good for nothing leeches. Every ethnic group has its bigotry against another. This is America, folks. This country was founded as a refuge from bigotry and oppression. Isn’t it ironic that the land of the free is also the land of the emotionally repressed hypocrite? For all of the advances this country has introduced to humanity the one thing we forgot along the way was tolerance.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    “But the larger issue is the idea that being gay is some sort of punishment and should be considered a thing that was a threat or humiliation.”

    I guess the teacher wasn’t the only one who though that being gay was a an insulting punishment because he got fired, didn’t he???

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    If being gay was such a punishment then why is this teacher being punished and critisized???

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    That teacher should NEVER have the right to teach again. Any school district that would even consider hiring this bigoted piece of trash is no different than the personnel office at the Gestapo.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    The Gestapo murdered people who might say something bad about their leader. A school district who highers a qualified teacher is like the Gestapo???

    I have see several times when a boy and a girl that are talking in class frustrate the teacher so the teacher makes them or tells the class that they are going out. So why is that any different if the teacher says you have to tell everyone your going out with a boy???

    It sounds like you gays are discriminating against yourselves.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    The teacher should be prosecuted. Look at the facts. He forces the two boys to sit in front of the class facing each other. He makes them hold hands and touch their knees. He then tells the rest of the class to go out and tell all their classmates that these two kids are gay. Oh, and by the way, this teacher was still in his 90 day probationary period! Mr. Eager committed emotional sexual abuse. He put two boys in a compromising position. He violated their civil rights. There is no justification whatsoever for his actions. Swimming Pen Creek Elementary School is just another example of the rampant anti-gay sentiment overseen by the Clay County School Board. On September 15, the same School Board reached an out of court settlement with a former lesbian student. Why? They refused to publish her picture in the high school yearbook because she was in a tuxedo.

    This School Board has a serious problem before it. There are five members: three are female, 2 are male. All are white. The two boys who were humiliated are not white. 87% of Clay County’s population is white, 6.7% is black and 4.3% is Hispanic. Does the overwhelming white majority have any role in the manner in which this was handled? Why don’t parents express their outrage at Clay County Superintendent David Owens and the Clay County School Board for their complete failure in managing the school system? This isn’t just a problem for Clay County, my friends. This is an issue for Florida and the United States as a whole. This is oppression and discrimination in its worst form and it’s done under the banner of morality. The only moral alternative for Clay County is to oust the members of the school board and demand the termination of Superintendent Owens. Anything less is a travesty.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    The Gestapo murdered people who might say something bad about their leader. A school district who highers a qualified teacher is like the Gestapo???

    I said the Gestapo Personnel Office, not that the School Board was the Gestapo. Qualified teachers should be hired based on their qualifications. In the case of this teacher, he was still under probation. In the case of other school officials who are also guilty of this rampant bigotry, they are tenured. To be quite honest, Anthony, I would just be happy with the hiring of teachers who would actually teach students proper spelling and grammar. But I guess that’s too much two axe.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Anthony’s comment suggests that this is an extension of some sort of common classroom practice. I wouldn’t put this kind of manipulative technique past the educational establishment. I wonder if we can find examples of the boy-girl instances he claims.

    Dave

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    “They refused to publish her picture in the high school yearbook because she was in a tuxedo.”

    Tuxedoes are for boys, not girls. I imagine if a boy was in a dress and refused to take it off then he would be excluded also. See, no discrimination.

    This teacher should not be prosecuted. The parents of these boys should sue his ass off though, because he stole the manhood from these boys.

    I can’t believe those boys actually did it though. If a teacher would have told me to do this I would have shanked him with my pencil.

    You haven’t answered the last two parts of comment 36.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    “I wonder if we can find examples of the boy-girl instances he claims.”

    I have seen it more than once. The boy and girl just blush a little and then get on with life. No one writes about it on the internet.

    I guess it is true that gays are more special than straights.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    I have see (sic) several times when a boy and a girl that are talking in class frustrate the teacher so the teacher makes them or tells the class that they are going out. So why is that any different if the teacher says you have to tell everyone your going out with a boy???

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. In either scenario, it proves that the teacher is incapable of capturing the students’ attention and lacks the discipline required to be a viable member of the teaching profession.

    It sounds like you gays are discriminating against yourselves.
    Oh, young man, your innocence astounds me. It’s your discrimination that precipitates the kind of humiliation that was imposed on these two boys by Mr. Eager.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    “It’s your discrimination that precipitates the kind of humiliation that was imposed on these two boys by Mr. Eager.”

    Silas, I think that Eager should be fired and flogged for what he did. He ruined the manhood and name of two young boys.

    I am just asking, Why are situations when a boy and a girl have to admit that they are going out all over the internet???

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    “It’s your discrimination that precipitates the kind of humiliation that was imposed on these two boys by Mr. Eager.”

    Silas, I think that Eager should be fired and flogged for what he did. He ruined the manhood and name of two young boys.

    I am just asking, Why are situations when a boy and a girl have to admit that they are going out all over the internet???

  • hemophiliac

    “My commentary is that the culture of hate (my terminology) toward homosexuals and homosexuality propagated to varying degrees by the church (in general), government and community is the predominant influence behind the actions of this teacher and other acts that have occured in various places including Florida.

    And while yes this teacher is crazy and so are the other people that make the news – the culpability must be shared by those who continue to foster those feelings.

    Now if anyone wants to discuss that thesis, let’s have at it.

    Culpability?

    According to the CDC, the total number of reported AIDS cases in December 2001 was 816,149.

    Sexual relations between homosexual men accounts for the largest share of AIDS cases.

    The culpability must be on those who continue to spread AIDS among the population.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    “Sexual relations between homosexual men accounts for the largest share of AIDS cases.”

    The actual percentage is 57% according to Avert.org.

  • Winston Jen

    And lesbians have the lowest incidence of AIDS out of any group. What’s your point? Proper education about AIDS and STDs are required to stop its spread.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    If you want to stop the spread of HIV and AIDS then Abstinence is your answer.

  • Winston Jen

    Here’s my answer to yours, Anthony – abstinence works, but abstinence only education does NOT. It leads to oral and anal sex (because most programs only argue against vaginal sex) and most people who take the ‘pledge of abstinence’ break it soon after.

    Also, who are you to tell anyone that they can NEVER have sex? You can encourage them, but deceptive sexual education programs help no one.

  • Bennett

    >And as for extremists, have you HEARD of Utah and Vermont?<

    WTF is tha all about, Dave? I live in Vermont, and if you want extremists, look somewhere else. It’s a damn sleepy State with a few colleges, lots of cows and dairys, and then there’s the rest of us who have to be pretty damn creative to earn a living in a beautiful place to live, devoid of industry.

    Extremists? Show me.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >>It leads to oral and anal sex (because most programs only argue against vaginal sex)

    Not the way they taught me in school. To touch someone in those two spots is considered sex.

    >>and most people who take the ‘pledge of abstinence’ break it soon after.

    That is probabally true. It just shows that we haven’t had enough Abstinence education because people don’t understand how important it is.

    >>Also, who are you to tell anyone that they can NEVER have sex?

    Someone who relizes that AIDS could possibly be the next Plague.

  • hemophiliac

    #49

    “deceptive sexual education programs help no one.”

    So, are deceptive sexual education programs being taught in the bathhouses?

  • hemophiliac

    The culpability must be on those who continue to spread AIDS among the population.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >>The culpability must be on those who continue to spread AIDS among the population.

    hemophilliac, there is hidden agenda behind complete abstinence. Shhh…we don’t want the liberals to know…if everyone follows complete abstinence then there will be no more GAY SEX!!!…SHH!!!… I mean no more gay sex because gays can’t get married.

  • http://www.bhwblog.com bhw

    Practical Joe, aka “hemophiliac,” posting under multiple names is not allowed.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Aha!!! I knew it. What’s up Joe??? I was wondering where you were hiding at.

  • Luke

    Probation seems appropriate to me, what’s the big deal? The teacher was bad, got punished, end of story. Just remember that tolerance means putting up with something you don’t like, so if someone is intolerant, that just means they aren’t keeping their mouth shut about their prejudices like everyone else.

  • MCH

    Anthony Grande and hemophiliac (aka Practical Joe);

    Your homophobic rants are exposing [edited].

  • http://www.bhwblog.com bhw

    When a teacher humiliates students — no matter what the form of humiliation — it’s a sign that s/he doesn’t belong in the job.

    To sexually humiliate students — whether through straight or gay scenarios — shows that a teacher has issues that need to be addressed away from school. This behavior is typical of abusive people, and it’s a good thing that this teacher’s abusiveness has been discovered fairly early in his career.

  • Luke

    anthony said “Someone who relizes that AIDS could possibly be the next Plague.”

    Haven’t they made a vaccine for that already? Why have they not pulled a small pox eradication on that shit?

  • Luke

    I guess he’s homophobic because he doesn’t want his daughter to have sex with a bi-guy carrying aids

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Just remember that tolerance means putting up with something you don’t like, so if someone is intolerant, that just means they aren’t keeping their mouth shut about their prejudices like everyone else.

    Tolerance doesn’t mean that a teacher can take two kids out of their desks and place them at the head of the class for the purpose of public humiliation. I would think, Luke, that regardless of how much you hate us in the gay community, you would be kind enough to agree that children are not fodder for this kind of thing. What Mr. Eager did borders on sexual abuse, period.

  • Luke

    and they put him on probation, whats the problem, they didn’t pat him on the back for a job well done. Also, I think you miss understood me a little, I was just pointing out that there’s a thin line between tolerance and intolerance, there’s plenty of gay hating racist bigots out there who’re tolerant.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    He was put on probation? The guy was still in his probationary 90 day trial in the school district. He was a newbie! The guy didn’t even have the common sense to tread lightly while he was being reviewed. In the end he resigned and that’s unfortunate. I would have liked to see it play out before the Clay County School Board. Especially since both schools involved in “gay controversy” as of late are within District 1. I hope the voters of Orange Park hold board member Vallancourt accountable. The residents of District 1 have not only been embarrassed nationally but their wallets have been made a bit lighter for no good reason.

  • Luke

    Hey, I don’t know everything about what happened, but what if it was a form of ironic punishment, like if the two kids were the class bullies and were saying this and that about student x and calling him gay etc, then the teacher says right, you two are going to be gay for the rest of the lesson and see how you like it, then again I have no idea, just a thought, maybe the teacher is intolerant of intolerant students.

    When I was in highschool the teacher in my computer class forcibly wrote ‘dick’ on a students forehead,
    so he was a ‘dickhead’ and we all had a good laugh about it, because it was getting very near to graduation, and the kid was sneaking up on him with a texter, knowing that any punishment that he could dish out would be meaningless this close to graduation, but after his failed attempt, got a taste of his own medicine, if it happened in America something stupid like a government education dept. enquiry would have happened, for fucks sake, just relax a little, the other teachers probably congradulated him on getting back at one those smart arse kids.
    You guys drag everything to the courts the first chance you get, here that sort of thing is viewed as a last resort for serious things.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Ah, but, Luke, litigation is an industry in America. That’s because we’ve allowed too many lawyers to become legislators. If we had dressed them up in powder wigs and frilly robes, perhaps they’d be a bit humbled. My dad has the best opinion of barristers. He says, Changing lawyers is like changing deck chairs on the Titanic. He’s got a point.

  • Luke

    I’ll take your word for it, I just think your country is fucked up to go to so much trouble over things so miniscule, you guys would be a lot happier if you were more like us, nothing is worth getting worked up about, most people will never see a day in court, teachers can write amusing things on students heads, the students don’t then go home and take a cold shower and cry whilst chanting to themselves “I hafto be clean, but the dirt won’t come off”
    I don’t how you people can live with so much politically correct litigious bullshit crammed up your arse all day.

  • http://dianahartman.blogspot.com/ diana hartman

    i was brought up in catholic school in the 60’s and 70’s…i couldn’t wear pants until 1976 no matter how cold it was, no matter how deep the snow…i was hit on the knuckles for drawing where i should have been writing, made to pull my skirt up to be whacked by a tri-fold ruler for misbehavior…after my mom’s sex talk at age 8, i took her drawings to school (she did illustrations for medical books among other things) and shared them with the other girls — and was held in the principal’s office during recess to copy my spelling words 30 times each…i still don’t understand the connection…
    boys with longer-than-norm hair, girls with shorter-than-norm skirts, overweight kids, kids darker than or as fairskinned as me, they were all fodder for all but my 4th grade teacher, sister mabel, who found something to like about everyone…

    i didn’t take delight in seeing other kids getting punished and think to this day, luke, that it takes a special kind of heartlessness to be the kind of person that does…

    i was able to get the teacher fired who threw my son’s 5th grade backpack across the room because it was “untidy”, and did so despite her tenure (thank you grandma for the best inheritence ever– a lawyer on retainer; and thank you fisher price for making a tape recorder that would fit in a backpack and look like just another toy, it having recorded the teacher’s insults of three other children and still maintained its structural integrity after the throw)…
    during the same school year in the same school, i couldn’t get my hyperactive daughter’s teachers to set her desk away from the other kids to minimize how much she was distracted and was distracting — because they didn’t want her to feel “isolated”, so they suspended her instead…this same child has received not one but eleven “most improved” awards (read: the teacher finally got used to me and decided i was okay)…

    larry eager put on one hell of a display, highlighting his grotesque lack of people skills and an inability to maintain any measure of control in even the most benign setting…he could’ve, and should’ve, just separated the boys…how hard is that?

    luke, i don’t know how you get from larry’s slap on the wrist to any form of “it’s okay to write ‘dick’ on someone’s forehead” but you might want to consider some therapy to work out those issues burrowing deep inside, you know the ones that have you taking so much glee in other’s pain as a way to temporarily ease your own…

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    we put our daughter in private school, and there are at least 5 other gay parents in that school. I don’t know of any gay parent who willingly puts their child in the public school system.

    There was a report I saw from Amnesty International about 5 years ago, maybe a bit longer, that said that the American school system was one of the biggest violaters of human rights in the world, and it was specifically about how gay youth get treated within the system.

    Many of them couldn’t even learn because they were too busy trying to plot safe routes home from school and/or how to avoid certain gangs.

    That report was awhile back, and I certainly hope things have changed for the better, but you know nothing changes overnight, so we still don’t really use the public school system, it’s still filled with too many kids who act out on the intolerance their religious parents instill in them.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    Here’s a good example of the intolerance I’m talking about, how it’s prevalent in society:

    Indiana considers a ban on all medically assisted pregnancies except for women who are married and these women would have to provide proof of their involvement in faith-based or church activities.

    Only God’s chosen can breed in the new America.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Thanks, Steve. Sen. Patricia Miller, a Republican and the 2002 recipient of the Legislator of the Year Award from The Mental Health Association in Indiana, is the author of the bill. She is a registered nurse and Executive Director of the Confessing Movement Within the United Methodist Church. She wields an incredible amount of power in the health care area in her role as a State Senator. In researching the issue, I’ve learned quite a bit about this woman of faith. I don’t begrudge the faith she has, it is admirable. However, she’s taken that faith and used it to feed the fires of homophobia and intolerance. I would hope that Hoosiers would bear this in mind when looking at the delivery of health care within Indiana. It’s dangerous to marry politics, medicine and religion in one package.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    Interesting that this came up in this discussion, I did a post about Miller’s bill on The Rudicus Report this morning.

    Obviously this woman is out to lunch as well, but it got me thinking – how would they enforce the law if it passed. If some homosexual or single parent became pregnant in an out of state or black market fertility clinic – would they make them abort the fetus? Would they confiscate it once it was born and give it to a male/female couple? Would it be a fine or jail time for illegal reproduction?

    Sounds like Gattaca.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Gattaca, Indiana. I like the sound of that. NOT! Rudicus, this crusade of Sen. Miller’s just reinforces my argument that we, the people, need to be more aware of local politics. Too many voters bypass local and statewide elections thinking that the most important votes cast are for Federal offices. Hogwash. Every vote, for every office, is important. Sen. Miller’s reach exceeds the 36,000 people who voted for her. She affects the healthcare of 6.2 million Hoosiers. No one should have that kind of power.

  • http://www.rudicusreport.blogspot.com Rudicus

    As great as that would be, I’ll settle for people knoweldgeable about politics at the national level. I would wager that half of the people in this country (or more) don’t even know what their president is doing, let alone their senators and representatives, let alone their local politicians.

    I don’t think most people even care – maybe we need to re-examine the entire system. Does state based government produce good policy? Would it be more effective to have a federal system – even though currently that would make things potnetially even more unbearable given the current administration?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >Anthony Grande and hemophiliac (aka Practical Joe);

    Your homophobic rants are exposing [edited].<

    Show me where I said I was homophobic.

    bhw, maybe the teacher didn’t mean to humiliate them. The kids just took it as humiliating because they think it is an INSULT to be gay.

    The teacher should not be fired. The parents of the kids should sue because they took it as an insult.

    Personally if it was me I would send a Vendetta after that teacher.

  • nugget

    rudicus said:

    OK Nugget,

    If everyone agrees with the thesis that the church, government and community tacitly accepts and in some cases promotes hate and bigotry toward homosexuals directly influencing the kinds of crimes we’re talking about – then I’m fine with that.

    My question would then be why would a Christian society(love thy neighbor as thyself etc.), a democratic society (all men are created equal endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights such as life liberty and the pursuit of happiness), and a society that welcomes refugees from the world continue to allow this kind of behavior and continue to sow persecution of a segment of people based simply on whom they choose to love?”

    That’s a good question. I’ll get back to you on that. Just dropping in to say I’m not gone.

  • practical joe

    Silas says:

    “It’s dangerous to marry politics, medicine and religion in one package.”

    Actually, homosexuals should be thankful we are a religious society,

    In an atheistic world, humans are only animals.

    And in the animal world, freaks of nature are not protected.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Nice one Joe

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    what a hoot. There are millions of atheists today who do not revert to animal behavior. It is not the fear of God that keeps man civil, rather it is the fear of God that makes man the beast.

    That is well proven in history.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    And has been proven on this site time and again within the last few weeks.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Because I don’t believe in God I’m going to go hump my dog’s leg to maintain the balance of nature.

    Dave

  • Luke

    “i didn’t take delight in seeing other kids getting punished and think to this day, luke, that it takes a special kind of heartlessness to be the kind of person that does…”

    right, i think you completely missed the point, you people are too thin skinned, it just isn’t right for people to get hurt so badly because of things that’re such non-incidents”

    “i was able to get the teacher fired who threw my son’s 5th grade backpack across the room because it was “untidy”, and did so despite her tenure (thank you grandma for the best inheritence ever– a lawyer on retainer; and thank you fisher price for making a tape recorder that would fit in a backpack and look like just another toy, it having recorded the teacher’s insults of three other children and still maintained its structural integrity after the throw)…”

    Yeah, see, i think you’re making everything much worse, someone threw a bag, why is this such an evil act? No one died, it’s a bad example you’re setting for your kids, that if anyone ever does something you don’t like you should sue them, you’re just wrong, extremely wrong.

    “luke, i don’t know how you get from larry’s slap on the wrist to any form of “it’s okay to write ‘dick’ on someone’s forehead” but you might want to consider some therapy to work out those issues burrowing deep inside, you know the ones that have you taking so much glee in other’s pain as a way to temporarily ease your own…”

    See, there it is again, what pain??? He didn’t write on the guys forehead with a stanley knife, ink washes off with water, I just don’t understand your mentallity at all, the kids in the class liked the teacher and thought he was cool, and then one of the kids tried to sneak up on him and write something funny on his head with a texter, the whole thing played out like just two buddies rough housing a little bit, the way you describe it, makes it sound like rough housing is a violent blood sport where the loser is left broken and bloodied and then an iron template is heated up by red hot coals and then branded onto his face leaving him horribly disfigured while I sit and watch with gleeful sadistic pleasure. No, it was a texter, it was a joke, it was funny, no one got hurt, psychologically everyone was fine, no one called their lawyers because it would be an extremely absurd thing to do, no one even had a lawyer, the kid that got ‘dick’ written on his head probably still thinks that teacher was a cool guy, I really really can’t comprehend the attitude of you people, and I don’t think I want to either, if you pal around and make fun of eachother and pull practical jokes and stuff, and everyone has a laugh, what the hell is wrong with that? Every now and then you get made fun of and get practical jokes pulled on you, but you dont’ take it to heart, because if they weren’t your friends, they wouldn’t bother to include you, if no one ever makes fun of you then you have no friends, just from my perspective, it isn’t normal for people to be so easy to hurt, people aren’t that fragile.

    P.S. I’m a nice guy and hurting people or taking pleasure in their suffering is not in my nature, harmless jokes are exactly that, HARMLESS.

  • http://dianahartman.blogspot.com/ diana hartman

    Yeah, see, i think you’re making everything much worse, someone threw a bag, why is this such an evil act? No one died, it’s a bad example you’re setting for your kids, that if anyone ever does something you don’t like you should sue them, you’re just wrong, extremely wrong.

    i didn’t sue luke…i filed a complaint and followed it through…there are codes of behavior expected of teachers…they sign the bottom line in agreement and are subject to the consequences of violating that agreement…

    See, there it is again, what pain??? He didn’t write on the guys forehead with a stanley knife, ink washes off with water, I just don’t understand your mentallity at all, the kids in the class liked the teacher and thought he was cool, and then one of the kids tried to sneak up on him and write something funny on his head with a texter, the whole thing played out like just two buddies rough housing a little bit, the way you describe it, makes it sound like rough housing is a violent blood sport where the loser is left broken and bloodied and then an iron template is heated up by red hot coals and then branded onto his face leaving him horribly disfigured while I sit and watch with gleeful sadistic pleasure.

    this entire paragraph describes the dynamic between two friends, not a teacher and a student…going on at great length about what the guy didn’t do with a graphic description of what didn’t happen has nothing to do with what he did and in fact serves to shift the focus away from what he did…why the extremism?

    P.S. I’m a nice guy and hurting people or taking pleasure in their suffering is not in my nature, harmless jokes are exactly that, HARMLESS.

    harmless is relative as is “nice”…since you’ll never again be a young boy nor would you ever be in larry’s class under larry’s way of doing things, it’s very convenient for you to take the stance you do…nice guys possess a level of compassion and understanding that you don’t seem to have…feeling the need to substantiate how nice you are does nothing for your credibility as your definition of “harm” appears to start at some sort of physical mutilation and end with death (ie: “He didn’t write on the guys forehead with a stanley knife” and “No one died”)…

  • http://dianahartman.blogspot.com/ diana hartman

    the ironic thing about the indiana ban proposal is that most kids in single parent homes started out with two parents…

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    setting aside the ‘gay’ aspect of it, there can be deep psychological scars left from a public humiliation. If the kids were causing problems, they should be sent to the principals office, or disciplined appropriately with detention or a penalyzing grade, but public humiliation of a young child is never an appropriate punishment, ANYONE with a child knows the damage that can do.

  • practical joe

    “the ironic thing about the indiana ban proposal is that most kids in single parent homes started out with two parents…”

    That’s what happens in the animal world.

  • http://dianahartman.blogspot.com/ diana hartman

    And in the animal world, freaks of nature are not protected.

    what constitutes a “freak” in the animal world?

  • practical joe

    Why am I being asked dumb questions?

  • practical joe

    “the ironic thing about the indiana ban proposal is that most kids in single parent homes started out with two parents…”

    I thought ALL kids started out with TWO parents.

    Doesn’t is still take both a male and a female?

    Or do fuzzy-thinking liberals think that has changed?

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Hmmm. Technically, a fetus can be manufactured in a test tube without a “mother” and “father”. It’s a matter of manipulating the nuclei. That’s not fuzzy thinking liberalism, that’s scientific fact.

  • practical joe

    Steve S says:

    “setting aside the ‘gay’ aspect of it, there can be deep psychological scars left from a public humiliation.”

    Is this a change?

    Does this mean there are no “deep psychological scars” suffered from a public humiliation by kids whose “parents” are homosexuals?

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    How about the deep psychological scars children of ultra right wing fanatical parents? Better my parents be a loving, gay couple than bigoted right-wing extremists. Ellen DeGeneres vs. Archie Bunker? Mommy, I’m hoooooome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • practical joe

    Silas says:

    “a fetus can be manufactured in a test tube”

    How irrelevant can you get?

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Why am I being asked dumb questions?

    [comment self-edited to save editors time in editing]

  • practical joe

    Silas:

    Ellen DeGenerate and Ann Heche?

    No.

    Ann Heche:

    “I had a fantasy world that I escaped to. I called my other personality Celestia,” she explains. “I believed I was from that world. I believed I was from another planet. I think I was insane.”

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    How irrelevant can you get?

    I’m a product of my environment.

    Ellen DeGenerate and Ann Heche?

    Say what you want about Ellen. Her words and deeds prove what kind of person she is. This woman is a class act all the way who actually cares about people. She walks the walk and just because she’s a lesbian, you malign her. [remainder of comment self-edited]

    Anne Heche is an opportunistic media whore. She slept with Ellen as a career move. Good people like Ellen get caught up in this kind of thing because they trust completely. Judging people based on sexual preference is just plain silly. There’s more to every individual than the utilization of their genitalia (or the lack thereof).

  • practical joe

    O.K. I get it.

    Ellen DeGenerate is not an opportunistic media whore as long as she stays out of the closet.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    PJ, I can’t debate you. You’ve got your opinions and I have mine. We both have our own prejudices. It comes down to the point that to argue with you would only cause me to go down a path that leads us nowhere and would offend many. So with that I’ll do my best to avoid your commentary.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    Steve S says: “setting aside the ‘gay’ aspect of it, there can be deep psychological scars left from a public humiliation.”

    practical joe asks: Is this a change?

    people were put in the stockade in the public square as a form of public humiliation. It was eventually discontinued as being cruel and unusual punishment, so I would say that public humiliation of a child would be even worse.

    I don’t think it’s a change, I think it’s been going on forever, and I think it’s been wrong the whole time. So no, it’s not a change, but that doesn’t make it right.

    I thought ALL kids started out with TWO parents. Doesn’t is still take both a male and a female?

    No. This is what happens when you use your Bible as your science text book. You get left behind.

    Does this mean there are no “deep psychological scars” suffered from a public humiliation by kids whose “parents” are homosexuals?

    I think any child put through a public humiliation would suffer some scarring, even if the public humiliation was because of dropping a straw wrapper. It’s not the content, it’s the context.

  • http://www.djradiohead.com DJRadiohead

    Silas, well done. I think all of us should sometimes be a little quicker to see that and just stand aside. I had to come that same conclusion on another thread (and I am not known for my thich skin).

    Discussion and debate are great but sometimes invoking cloture is the way to go.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    Ellen has an Emmy winning show, she is wildly successful and has a great campaign going with American Express.

    On the other hand, we have an anonymous commenter who has exhibited a complete inability to comprehend the needs of a child, evidenced amid prejudiced and bigoted views, while passing moral judgement of his Supremacy over someone he doesn’t even know.

    I’m sure Ellen is crushed.

  • http://www.iamcorrect.com Lono

    um, yes… I do blame the church.

  • practical joe

    Let’s blame the church!

    Yeah…

    The church must take the blame for…

    More divorce…
    More pedophilia…
    More drug use…
    More homosexuality…
    More serial killers…
    More violence…
    More rapes…

    More of all those good things liberalism has brought us…

    The list goes on and on… ad nauseam!

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    That the Chuch is the cause of most of man’s social ills, has long been proven.

    Glad to see we are all together in blaming the Church.

  • http://dianahartman.blogspot.com/ diana hartman

    hmm pj, so you’re saying there are no conservatives getting divorced, no republican pedophiles, only liberals use drugs, there are no gay congregants in any church, and democrats cornered the market on serial killers, violence, and rape (pardon my redundancy, er rather yours)…

    oh but wait, the contention was that liberalism brought these things…so, the good hearty stock of conservatism and churchgoing being what it is couldn’t resist the temptation and bit of the forbidden fruit did it?

  • practical joe

    Unfortunately…

    Monkey see — monkey do…

    When you mature a little, you will understand this…

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    a lot of monkeys in your neck of the woods?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >The church must take the blame for…

    More divorce…
    More pedophilia…
    More drug use…
    More homosexuality…
    More serial killers…
    More violence…
    More rapes…<

    Oh yeah Silas and Steve??? I am sure this is all the Churches fault. I would say it is the Liberal problem we have here in America.

    Religion is what seperates humans from animals. It takes away survival of the fittest.

    That neighbor of mine purposely ran over my cat. What is going to stop me from murdering this guy??? The wrath of God.

    I like that girl but she has a boyfreind, why shouldn’t I kill this guy??? The wrath of God.

    Hey, I got the urge of attraction to do something to little 9 year old Katie, what is holding me back??? The wrath of God

    We would have complete anarchy if it weren’t for religion. People need something to look ahead at consequences for their actions.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    I’d like to start typing a whole bunch of crap and epithets to refute all this stuff. What stops me? The wrath of BC editors.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Silas, so your implying that the only why to refute my arguments is by using personal insults.

    And I need to make a change in my words on 108: Instead of saying “the wrath of God” I want to change it to the fear of DAMNATION.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Oh never mind, I will just repost it:

    Religion is what seperates humans from animals. It takes away survival of the fittest.

    That neighbor of mine purposely ran over my cat. What is going to stop me from murdering this guy??? Fear of eternal Damnation

    I like that girl but she has a boyfreind, why shouldn’t I kill this guy??? Fear of eternal Damnation

    Hey, little 9 year old Katie looks real good right now, what is holding me back??? Fear of eternal Damnation

    I could keep going.

    We would have complete anarchy if it weren’t for religion. People need something to look ahead at consequences before their actions.

  • Luke

    “i didn’t sue luke…i filed a complaint and followed it through…there are codes of behavior expected of teachers…they sign the bottom line in agreement and are subject to the consequences of violating that agreement…”

    I guess our cultures are too different, if people are getting along, then what’s to complain about?

    “this entire paragraph describes the dynamic between two friends, not a teacher and a student…going on at great length about what the guy didn’t do with a graphic description of what didn’t happen has nothing to do with what he did and in fact serves to shift the focus away from what he did…why the extremism?”

    I’m trying to point out that what people do doesn’t always need consequences, strange things should be able to happen, otherwise I wouldn’t have this funny thing to talk about, beaurocractic rules and regulations are more like suggestions and guidelines, i think it’s more like that here because there’s less risk involved, people can get away with the small stuff because we’d all be up tight arseholes if we didn’t, and generally people can be trusted to draw the line for themselves, as for my paragraph describing the dynamic between two friends instead of teacher and student, our attitude here is more or less, if people are friends with eachother, that’s a good thing.

    “harmless is relative as is “nice”…since you’ll never again be a young boy nor would you ever be in larry’s class under larry’s way of doing things, it’s very convenient for you to take the stance you do…nice guys possess a level of compassion and understanding that you don’t seem to have…feeling the need to substantiate how nice you are does nothing for your credibility as your definition of “harm” appears to start at some sort of physical mutilation and end with death (ie: “He didn’t write on the guys forehead with a stanley knife” and “No one died”)…”

    I laughed out loud when I read that, I can only reitterate thoe, i’m nice, and it’s harmless, but i’m fuct if I need credibility.

  • http://www.blogcritis.com T A Doger

    Well Anthony,
    Maybe fear of the wrath of god is all that keeps you from raping little girls, but I’d say most people, even most non-religious people, don’t rape because they don’t want to, or they know it’s wrong…

    Also, it’s interesting to compare the murder rates in most western European countries to the murder rate in the US. Those Europeans must spend a lot more time in church than we do… oh. wait. no.

    For the record, I also think it’s ridiculous to blame the church for society’s ills. I read the article you linked to Steve, and I think it confuses correlation and causation.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    No, Anthony, the bottom line is that we cannot debate. First of all, you have the luxury of your youth which causes you to maintain this incredible sense of self-importance. That’s not an insult, I was there once. It’s part of the abundance of hormones that teens enjoy. Time may soften your point of view or it may make you harder. Much of that depends on your experiences over the next few years. It is human nature for a young man of your age to consistently challenge the staus quo. Some of mankind’s greatest advances were the result of such challenges. It’s not a matter of having to resort to personal insults. Your view is that by virtue of my beliefs I am a murderer, pervert and an anomaly to humanity. Strong words? Indeed they are. Am I over exaggerating? Not at all. I can’t force you to look at things from my point of view and I don’t propose to do such a thing. What I can do, however, is make a conscious decision to stop allowing myself to feed into your diatribe. And as of this comment, that’s what I choose to do.

  • practical joe

    Steve S:

    “That the Church is the cause of most of man’s social ills, has long been proven.”

    Of course, there were a few variables left out of this so-called “proof”.

    Like homogeneity of the population.

    It is not a proof by any stretch of the imagination.

    I could show you a much better proof that 2 = 1.

  • practical joe

    Silas says:

    “[Anthony has] the luxury of… youth which causes [him] to maintain this incredible sense of self-importance.

    The self-inportance Silas atrributes to others is more likely to be true of Silas.

    “That’s not an insult“

    But obviously the intention is to be denigrating.

    “I was there once.”

    Still there mentally, Silas.

    “It’s part of the abundance of hormones that teens enjoy.”

    Obviously also intended to be denigrating.

    “Time may soften your point of view or it may make you harder. Much of that depends on your experiences over the next few years.”

    More condescending shit.

    “It is human nature for a young man of your age to consistently challenge the staus quo.“

    Shit compounded by more shit.

    “Some of mankind’s greatest advances were the result of such challenges.”

    This guy is too much.

    “It’s not a matter of having to resort to personal insults.’

    Watta ya know? Silas says he doesn’t resort.

    “Your view is that by virtue of my beliefs I am a murderer, pervert and an anomaly to humanity.”

    I didn’t read that — but if you believe it, wear it.

    “What I can do, however, is make a conscious decision to stop allowing myself to feed into your diatribe.”

    Appears that a diatribe is what Silas does best.

  • http://ezsgblog.com/vtdawson/index.php Bennett

    Anthony:

    I don’t believe in Hell.

    I don’t believe in Eternal Damnation.

    I don’t believe in a God that would have such a place to torture folks.

    I don’t believe that fear of punishment is the ultimate guiding principle.

    I don’t believe is using guilt to control my neighbors.

    I don’t believe that religions that use these things to control their members are doing good.

    I believe that children raised in a loving family can be taught all about what is moral and right and correct without ever being exposed to God-concepts, or religion, or any of the stuff you seem to think is so important. I believe that religion has warped more people than it has helped. I believe that children do just fine without instilling an illogical and unprovable superstitious fear about “punishment after they die”.

    I believe that organized religion is a money-making scam. Spirituality comes from within, and isn’t based on telling other people how to run their lives, or who they should love.

    Spreading hate and trying to tell other people how to live based on some “book” full of parables and questionable history is just silly.

    I know these things are true. I was raised in an “other than Christian” home and I know right from wrong. I know not to steal or cause harm to my neighbor, town, or country. I know that humans can live moral and just and loving lives without any religious faith at all.

    I feel sorry for folks that live in fear.

    PJ: Your attack on Silas is so immature. His comments were true and balanced. You may be to young to see that, but the adults on this site read your words and know you’re grasping at straws. Give it a rest, you’re not impressing anyone.

  • http://www.blogcritics.com T A Dodger

    Still there mentally, Silas.
    Nice to see you’re rising above the fray.
    “Your view is that by virtue of my beliefs I am a murderer, pervert and an anomaly to humanity.”

    I didn’t read that — but if you believe it, wear it.

    1) Anthony says all liberals are responsible for
    More divorce…
    More pedophilia…
    More drug use…
    More homosexuality…
    More serial killers…
    More violence…

    2) Silas is a liberal.

    3) Ergo, according to Anthony, Silas is responsible for
    More divorce…
    More pedophilia…
    More drug use…
    More homosexuality…
    More serial killers…
    More violence…

    Sorry to see you’re having trouble making inferences. Get well soon.
    Andra

  • practical joe

    Bennett:

    I believe you should take your own advice:

    Give it a rest, you’re not impressing anyone.

  • Bennett

    Take a poll, babe.

  • nugget

    “I believe that organized religion is a money-making scam.”

    HAHAHAHAHAH! Nice one Bennett. Can you say paranoia?? Maybe, MAYBE 10% of churches across the United States are fullfledged con-artists in denial, but I think you are a bit scared of…hm, the wind?

    Think what you want about “organized religion”, there are many people and churches in the United States that are poor and not asking for much. Secondly, these churches spend there money doing good in their communities and giving to charities.

    I think you need to tone down the church-hating rhetoric a bit. It’s typical and making you look bad.

  • Bennett

    Nugget:

    I don’t hate churches, and many of them have very nice people doing very nice things.

    Organized religion however, is a concept that supports it’s clergy and enriches the organization, for what?

    For bestowing the favor of a God on its followers?

    Give your money to a battered women’s shelter, an orphanage, a drug treatment center.

    Your god will still love you and you won’t be supporting a bunch of flappers and go-betweens.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    I have seen NO proof that Religion hurts the population. Sure you people may say “oh I never had those thoughts, I don’t need no religion to know that” but guess what guys:

    Rape and Murder happens. This means it is in the Human mind. The human mind is capable of thinking up and doing just about anything. The principles of Religion have seperated the majority these thoughts from action.

    Religion is inbedded in the human mind. Everyone on this thread is descended from very Religious people. Silas and Bennett came from Religious families. The fear of God and horribles of the afterlife is alive in all of you. You can deny it if you want but it is there.

  • Winston Jen

    Practical Joe: “Why am I being asked dumb questions?”

    Because your god did not bless you with a decent brain or critical thinking skills.

  • practical joe

    Let’s look at some of the other haters of Christianity:

    Uncle Adolf

    Adolf Hitler was born and brought up a Catholic. But he left the faith early. On forming his government he immediately began a religious war against Catholics, Protestants, and Jews alike. Hitler considered Catholicism a particularly dangerous religion because it demands the allegiance of man, and allegiance to others was something Hitler could not tolerate.

    Uncle Joe

    Joseph Stalin’s Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools.

    Do these objectives sound familiar?

  • nugget

    bennett:

    I see, but are you sure you’re not downsizing “organized religion” to Catholicism? I can understand a beef with Catholicism. I am a Protestant and I know that most offerings/donations given to churches with a denominational affiliation go through a council (wherein most board members hate each other). Thus, the money is almost always distributed responsibly ” to a battered women’s shelter, an orphanage, a drug treatment center.” Furthermore, in that crazy bible book, that crazy and unfair God guy ordered a tithe (10%) of one’s income to the Church.

    Don’t get me wrong. There are plenty of flappers and go-betweens in the world. Some of them USE the church. But don’t blame idiots’ actions on “the church” or even “organized religion.”

    Lastly, I can’t speak for Catholicism. I don’t understand the whole hierarchy going on there. If joe or anthony want to defend that, they can be my guests.

  • practical joe

    “I don’t understand the whole hierarchy going on there. If joe or anthony want to defend that, they can be my guests.”

    So you are saying that you don’t know about Catholicism, but others need to defend it?

    Is that the same as saying you don’t know if you don’t know?

    And I don’ wanna be yo’ guest.

  • nugget

    no joe, what I’m saying is that I don’t know alot about the Catholic church, but I don’t consider it “the” church of churches. Thus, I don’t see any real reason to go out of my way to defend it. However, I will defend my convictions about the reality of God and Jesus (that crazy jew) as his son who died and was brought to life again. I believe in salvation by grace through faith in God and a belief in the story of the new testament. so…..yea.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Lastly, I can’t speak for Catholicism. I don’t understand the whole hierarchy going on there.

    The priest reports to the Bishop of the Diocese. The Bishop of the Diocese reports to the Archbishop of the Archdiocese. The Archbishop reports to the Vatican. The Pope is God on Earth.

    Secularly speaking, it’s the front line customers who buy from the downline dealers; who report to the upline dealers; who report to the Golden Diamond Double Ruby Platinum Dealers; who report to the Company. In other words check out Amway, Shaklee, Tupperware or Herbalife and you’ll get the drift. Only in the Church’s case, it’s tax-free.

  • nugget

    silas I understand and know all of that. What I don’t understand was the birth of madness. Like, what were they doing? Sitting around in lazyboys wondering, “hey i think we should set up this monarchy within a monarchy, ya know, score real big with it! Ya know, crown Paul over there as Pope..etc.etc.”???

  • Winston Jen

    Why do practical joe and Anthony like 12-year-old girls?

    Because they can turn them around and use them as 12-year-old boys.

    What do you give a paedophile who has everything?

    A new parish.

  • nugget

    I just threw up in my mouth. A little.

  • RogerMDillion

    “Rape and Murder happens. This means it is in the Human mind.”

    That means it was put there by your god. I hope Santa brings you a nice present this year.

  • kittygogo

    Organized religion is for weak people who need someone else to make decisions for them and to tell them how to think, because they are too lazy or incapable of thinking on their own. Weak minded people give money and worship because they believe that they will be saved from the unknown. They believe this because their religion dicatates this is true. It is not faith as much as fear that religion panders too. This fear leads to hatred and fear of other religions and beliefs and fosters violence. This has been true for centuries. Our world would be a better place without organized religion. The energy and money devoted to it could be better spent curing the ills of humanity and helping those who need it. All things that the church supposedly supports, but instead just takes from people, exploits them and feeds them with made-up stories and scares them into giving money. This money is then used to line the pockets of those preaching salvation. It’s called exploitation. I’m not saying this is true of every “religion” but it does seem true of the majority.

    Personally, reincarnaation seems like a better bet. You can either evolve to greatness or allow yourself to wallow in eternity being completely unenlightened and easily swayed by false promises.

  • http://www.blogcritics.com T A Dodger

    The Pope is NOT God on Earth, nor does the Catholic church teach that he is. He is the spiritual leader of the Catholic church, and its cheif teacher and pastor. The church does say that the pope can make some “infallible” pronouncements, which seems a little silly to me, but whatever.

    I don’t mean to jump on you Silas. I agree with most of what you’ve been saying on this thread. This statement just sounded too much like the kind of crap I hear from right wing fundamentalists who don’t think Catholicism is real Christianity.

  • http://www.blogcritics.com T A Dodger

    Sorry, I meant to put this at the top of my last post.

    Silas says:
    The Pope is God on Earth

  • practical joe

    Doesn’t T A Dodger sound just like Silas?

    Are they twins?

    Or is it closer?

  • Howard

    Kittygogo, I’m sorry you have had such a poor experience with organized religion. Certainly there are many cases of failure and fraud in churches over the centuries of mankind. What maybe you haven’t heard is that most of the teachings of Jesus were directed to the relationship of man to man. 60% of God’s 10 commandments dealt with the relationship of man to man. While I know there is life after death, I also know my Savior spent much of his time on earth attempting to make my life on earth a more satisfying and fulfilling experience. Those teachings and experiences are yours for the asking, and not necessarily in a church. A congregation of true believers makes the understanding easier and the living more enjoyable, that’s all.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Point taken, TA Dodger. While St. Catherine did refer to the Pope as Christ on Earth, the official Church stance is that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and serves in His place on Earth until the end of days.

  • practical joe

    I think it’s closer.

  • practical joe

    A church is a congregation of true believers.

    Otherwise it’s not a church.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    1 believer = lunatic

    2 believers = wingnuts

    10 believers = commune

    100 believers = church

    1,000 believers = cult

    10,000+ believers = religion

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    1,000,000,000 believers = Stepford.

  • http://Druxxx Druxxx

    I don’t think liberals or religion has brought about
    More divorce…
    More pedophilia…
    More drug use…
    More homosexuality…
    More serial killers…
    More violence…

    freedom has.

    Give people more choices and there is a better chance they will do things that particular groups think are immoral.

    Under a repressive form of government these things can be more controlled by the state.

  • practical joe

    Let’s see now…

    What is kittygogo if she says that Blacks are weak people who need someone else to make decisions for them and to tell them how to think, because they are too lazy or incapable of thinking on their own?

    Well, someone who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ — is a bigot.

    But kittygogo did not say that about Blacks.

    What kittygogo did say is that organized religion is for weak people who need someone else to make decisions for them and to tell them how to think, because they are too lazy or incapable of thinking on their own?

    Sound familiar?

    So — what does that make kittygogo?

    And her fellow travelers…

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Interesting article in this month’s issue of Journal of Religion and Society which discusses the correlation of religion and social dysfunction. MSNBC’s Tucker Carlson did a piece on it during Wednesday night’s broadcast. I am surprised that there has been scant mention of it here at BC because the report gets to the heart of the matter. The essay brings to light some interesting statistics:

    • Increasing adolescent abortion rates show positive correlation with increasing belief and worship of a creator, and negative correlation with increasing non-theism and acceptance of evolution; again rates are uniquely high in the U.S.
    • A detailed comparison of sexual practices in France and the U.S. observed little difference except that the French tend – contrary to common impression – to be somewhat more conservative
    • In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies (Figures 1-9).
    • the data examined in this study demonstrates that only the more secular, pro-evolution democracies have, for the first time in history, come closest to achieving practical “cultures of life” that feature low rates of lethal crime, juvenile-adult mortality, sex related dysfunction, and even abortion. The least theistic secular developing democracies such as Japan, France, and Scandinavia have been most successful in these regards.
    • There is evidence that within the U.S. strong disparities in religious belief versus acceptance of evolution are correlated with similarly varying rates of societal dysfunction, the strongly theistic, anti-evolution south and mid-west having markedly worse homicide, mortality, STD, youth pregnancy, marital and related problems than the northeast where societal conditions, secularization, and acceptance of evolution approach European norms

    Regardless of where one stands on the issue of religion, the facts are crystal clear. Belief in an organized religion does not necessarily improve society. Like it or not, those are the facts. Rather than one side condescend to the other, we should be approaching our societal problems from a secular point of view out of respect of individual choice. 1,950 Americans have sacrificed their lives in Iraq just so we can snip at each other. We’re sitting around talking about how evil the Muslims are and fundamentalist Islamics are barbaric, blah, blah, blah. It seems to me the Christian adherents are no better as this report clearly indicates. Oh, but I forgot, I’m gay, pro-choice and ‘liberal’. That means that my opinion doesn’t count because I’m no different from a pedophilic, murdering Communist. It’s no wonder Jesse Ventura wants out of the U.S.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    O.K. now since I defended organized religion you guys jumped all over me calling me a fundamentalist lunatic.

    I have never used God or the Bible in my arguments so you guys cannot call me this.

    >
    I don’t think liberals or religion has brought about
    More divorce…
    More pedophilia…
    More drug use…
    More homosexuality…
    More serial killers…
    More violence…

    freedom has.<

    No, freedon brouught about anti-Religion which caused all that shit.

    Silas, that still doesn’t prove nothing against Religion.

    The presence of Religion has kept our society from spilling over. This is a COMMON SENSE fact.

    Even to those who claim they are Atheists, you still have been taught and raised by Religious people. Religion has given us morals.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    In the mind of a man, named David, a slave Jew in Egypt in 1500 B.C.:

    I work all these long days building these Pyramids, working for another man, not going anywhere. I will always stay in this situation I will never be free to move up in life. This knife is pretty sharp, I can cut myself and end it now.

    NO!!! I can’t, I can not go to Heaven if I do such a thing. I must put this knife down.

    Even if God and Heaven did not exist, David put the knife down, lived, raised his children who would eventually rise up against the Pharow, all because he [BELIEVED] that a God and Heaven existed.

    Religion has existed since the beginning of Human time. Religion took away the “survival of the fittest” attitude out of our species. Thanks to that we are a species who cares and helps one another. We don’t kill the guy next to us and take his food. We will SHARE the food with the guy next to us.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Silas, Religion is not about Evolution or Anti-Evolution. It is about having Faith, having morals, having respect for the common man, and thinking about the consequences before you do something.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    I won’t debate you, Anthony. But I will refute facts as you state them.

    I work all these long days building these Pyramids, working for another man, not going anywhere. I will always stay in this situation I will never be free to move up in life. This knife is pretty sharp, I can cut myself and end it now.

    Ding. Ding. There’s no evidence that the Jews were Egypt’s slaves in building the pyramids. Quite the contrary.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Fine, make it a black slave in 1770 South Carolina picking cotton, the point is still there. Ding, Ding.

    And also, if the Egyptians didn’t force Jews as slaves, then who did they use??? Ding Ding!!!

  • kittygogo

    poster 145, I’d have to say I am someone who is intolerant of organized religion because of the reasons that I and other posters have addressed. I was raised catholic (of course), but even as a child I didn’t understand or like the intolerance of religion. Basically, “our way or damnation”. I don’t think god or whomever/whatever, works that way. This is why I believe that the recycling theory works the best for me.

    I don’t pray to god, but I am spritual in that I believe in a higher power, but I don’t go around forcing other people to think like me and I don’t think laws should be changed so that people adhere to my way of thinking. I came to my conclusion all on my own. I don’t need made-up folktales from thousands of years ago to tell me that murdering, rape and incest are wrong. Of course, lots of religions have done all of this and worse, all in the name of god? I’m sure s/he thinks that is just fantastic. Organized religion creates divisiveness, which leads to fear and hostility.

    I’ve never been a joiner though.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >I don’t need made-up folktales from thousands of years ago to tell me that murdering, rape and incest are wrong.< That is not what my stories were about. They were about the fear that religion has put into is not to yourself or others.

    >I don’t pray to god, but I am spritual in that I believe in a higher power,< Same with me

    >but I don’t go around forcing other people to think like me and I don’t think laws should be changed so that people adhere to my way of thinking.<

    Me two, unless the subject harms another.

  • practical joe

    Silas found an interesting article in this month’s issue of Journal of Religion and Society which discusses the correlation of religion and social dysfunction.

    This is what Silas now believes:

    Religious people are more likely to commit crime.

    Religious people are more likely to oppress other people.

    Religious people are more likely to divorce.

    Religious people are more likely to rape.

    Religious people are more likely to watch pornography.

    Religious people are more likely to have AIDS.

    Religious people are more likely to have gonorrhea.

    Religious people are more likely to commit suicide.

    Religious people are more likely to commit road rage.

    Religious people are more likely to commit pedophilia.

    Religious people are more likely to be engage in homosexual acts.

    Religious people are more likely to be serial killers…

    Religious people are more likely to be violent.

    Religious people are more likely to be prostitutes.

    Religious people are more likely to have abortions.

    Religious people are more likely to abduct children.

    Religious people are more likely to have teen pregnancies.

    Religious people are more likely to be Fascists or Communists.

    Religious people are more likely to use illegal drugs.

    Religious people are more likely to have herpes.

    Religious people are more likely to have depression.

    Religious people are more likely to be smokers.

    Religious people are more likely to drive drunk.

    Religious people are less likely to have well-behaved children.

    And on and on…

    Ad nauseam!

  • practical joe

    kittygogo says:

    “I’d have to say I am someone who is intolerant of organized religion because of the reasons that I and other posters have addressed.”

    We all have our reasons for being bigots.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    I am now switching sides. I have had a revelation:

    RELIGION IS THE DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Murder, Kill kill, rape em all!!!

    There is no consequences!!! If you go to jail, just commit suicide!!! There is no God to get mad at you for that!!!

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Back to the subject matter that started this whole debate before it went off on some wild tangent:

    …When the school, the community and the church do not openly condemn this kind of thing, but conversely give it tacit approval by not responding with definite action and also turn around and preach discrimination and hated of gays in the houses of god and seats of government – where are people supposed to learn that this is wrong?

    Rudicus, as you said, that’s at the heart of the matter. The bottom line is that those states where religion is dominant are the guiltiest. I don’t mean to piss anyone off, it’s the simple truth. There are those who think that the Northeast and West Coast are too liberal and permissive. Perhaps they have a point. The difference is that at least they’re freer to be themselves without fear of retribution.

    In the article I noted in Comment #146, I briefly touched upon the conclusions reached by the author. When one studies this essay with an open mind, there are some disturbing statistics to consider. In going beyond the study, it’s apparent that the conservative seizure of terms like family values, morality and pro-life give the false notion that those on the right are expressing the positive message while those on the left are nothing short of heathens. Both sides are at fault for demonizing the other. Family values are not incumbent upon having a man and a woman in charge of the household. Supporting a woman’s right to choose is not tantamount to murder. The left’s apparent surrender of these “positive” terms to the right is part of the problem. We are a nation of laws, not Scripture. While many of our founding principles are based on the Judeo-Christian traditions, they are not exclusive. Being an American is about being in an inclusive society.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Oh wait, I am switching sides again. I have just read 154 and came back to reality.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Comment 157, I now understand what all this anti-Religion rants and lies are about. It is because Religion doesn’t approve of homosexuality.

    You could have just said that, you didn’t have to make a whole bunch of stupid shit up.

    Religion is homophobic because:

    PRINCIPLES OF HUMAN NATURE:

    * Males are born with certain parts and females are born with certain parts and these parts fit together like a puzzle so we can reproduce. No Accident.

    * Fifty-One percent of humans are Female, Forty-Nine percent of humans are Male. If you take in consideration that Females tend live a little longer than Males than it would be 50-50. Hence, one woman for every man. No Accident

    * Only five percent of Americans go against the first two priciples, the majority (Fify-Seven percent) of Americans with AIDS or HIV got AIDS or HIV by going against the first two principles. No Accident.

    * Anyone that goes against the first two principles needs help and support from their peers, not special rights.

    * Genes are inheretied from parents, so since gays don’t reproduce how would a “gay gene” exist??? It doesn’t.

    * Humans aren’t special, we are just animals. So why don’t we see gays among lions or zebras or geese??? Because they don’t exist.

    * The only way a child can be born is by a male and a female. This is no accident, because it was intended that these same two male and female bring up this child.

    * And several references in the Bible.

  • practical joe

    Silas says:

    “Supporting a woman’s right to choose is not tantamount to murder.”

    The medical team with the poison-filled syringe arrives beside the woman’s cot. They have the woman lie face up on her cot in the abortion clinic. They then drive the needle into her abdomen until it enters the fetus. The woman says at first she can feel the child kicking a lot. But after several minutes, the child stops moving. Several hours later, the baby is delivered dead. But to be sure, the baby is dunked for several minutes in a bucket of water.

    This goes on each and every day in “civilized” countries.

    That is what we have come to.

    Aren’t all you abortionists proud?

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Prouder than the NBC peacock!

  • practical joe

    Silas is “Prouder than the NBC peacock!”

    Peacocks include the black-shouldered, in which the male has the wings blue, green and black, the female being very pale; the White; and the Pied, in which the normal plumage of the Indian Blue is irregularly marked with white. The Spalding variety is a hybrid between the Indian and the Green species.

    So which one is Silas?

    The male, the female. or the hybrid?

  • Bennett

    What a laugh riot! You two (AG & PJ) are so far over the edge that there really is no hope at all.

    I agree with Roger’s comment a while back. Anthony, you should join up tomorrow. You already know it all, and the Marines are the only place you are going to learn anything new.

    I’ve nothing for PJ, it would be a waste of energy on a lost cause.

  • practical joe

    A peacock abortionist?

    Or an abortionist peacock?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >What a laugh riot!<

    It is sad that you can laugh after reading 161.

    Just think about that so called “fetus” kicking ecxessively for a few minutes then slowly stopping. Gee, I wonder if it felt any pain.

    YOU SICK PEOPLE!!! YOU ARE SCUM!!! YOU KILL BABIES AND TURN AROUND AND BLAME RELIGION FOR OUR PROBLEMS!!!

    I HOPE THERE IS A HELL!!!

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    It should read “…after reading 160″ not 161.

    Here is a site here

    It talks about how a women pregnant with twins tried to abort them and when she felt the kicking she said, “No, I feel kicking, I know it is alive”

    Only one of the babies survived and is now 24 year old Sarah Smith.

  • Bennett

    Still a laugh riot.

    Do you think that using all caps make your words more interesting or believable?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    An excerpt from my site:

    “I am an abortion survivor,” Sarah continued. “Let my face be that point of reference for everyone to know what is being killed in the womb. When you hear the word ‘choice,’ think of me. My life, my limbs were meant to be torn apart.”

    Another one:

    “I absolutely forgive my mother for the abortion,” she continued. “She was like the majority of women who go for abortions, totally ignorant of what she was doing and uninformed about the consequences.”

  • Bennett

    It’s 8:30 on a Friday evening. Why aren’t you out with friends?

    Come to think of it, you spend way to much time here on BC for a boy of your age.

    Why is that?

    You aren’t changing anyone’s mind here on BC. Don’t you think you could save WAY more “babies” by going out and telling other teenagers about abstinense training?

    C’mon dude, go on out there and change the world already!

    You and your cousin could hold seminars on not doing it together!

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    I am sorry Bennett, today I was spent two hours watching my 2 month year old niece and 2 year old nephew. The thought of my niece and nephew kicking and struggling to survive just makes me feel weak.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    The thought of my niece and nephew kicking and struggling to survive just makes me feel weak.

    Then quit obsessing over it and enjoy the life before you.

  • practical joe

    Selfish Bastard!

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    no, joe, not selfish but sitting there looking at healthy kids and imaging them struggling to survive means Anthony’s a little obsessed with abortion issues, joe. And I say that to be nice, but he sees it in everything, he thinks of it, imagines it, when he sees healthy kids, what does that tell you? Tell him you agree with me and help him.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Smile, Steve. Don’t nip at the bait, it’s not worth it. If you believe in your heart that you are leading the life that God wants you to live, nobody can take that away from you. I’ve grown weary of trying to find common ground. It’s like being an Armenian in Turkey in 1915. They’d just as soon see you dead.

  • practical joe

    I’m beginning to believe that homosexuals are born with a mental aberration.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Steve, yes or no:

    Do you support Abortion???

  • KYS

    I love how pj and ant funnel these threads into the two topics they think they can debate: gay marriage and abortion.

    This thread is about an inappropriate teacher who clearly went beyond what is acceptable classroom behavior. It is a shame to think that they so easily dismiss the topic of every thread they enter to thump their bibles.

    If you want credit, argue the point at hand, and leave your ratings to the appropriate threads.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    I would say that is it is funny how you liberals always call us Bible thumpers just because we don’t want babies to die, but I am not in the laughing mood right now.

    Also, KYS read all the previos posts on this thread and you will see that I came here talking about the teacher and how other people turned this to baby killing.

  • KYS

    Ant, all your other threads follow the same path…I’ll make sure to remind you…

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    KYS, fine, I will copy and paste some of my old comments on this site:

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Comment 33, reposted:

    “But the larger issue is the idea that being gay is some sort of punishment and should be considered a thing that was a threat or humiliation.”

    I guess the teacher wasn’t the only one who though that being gay was a an insulting punishment because he got fired, didn’t he???

    If being gay was such a punishment then why is this teacher being punished and critisized???

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Comment 36, reposted:

    have see several times when a boy and a girl that are talking in class frustrate the teacher so the teacher makes them or tells the class that they are going out. So why is that any different if the teacher says you have to tell everyone your going out with a boy???

    It sounds like you gays are discriminating against yourselves.

    _____________________-

    There are several more, but I think you get my point.

  • KYS

    Both those scenarios are inappropriate. So what exactly is your point?

  • Bennett

    If there isn’t a general rule against reposting earlier comments, there should be.

    I’m waiting for an apology, Anthony. Did you find any evidence of “copy and past” of MY comments from last night?

    You called me a hypocrite, am I?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    KYS, my view on this topic is:

    The teacher should not be fired. Things like this happen all the time. But I do believe that the family can take this teacher to Civil Court because he did take the manhood away from these to boys.

    I personally would lead a vendetta

  • KYS

    Vendetta? As in….a blood feud? Outside of the law??? Please explain.

  • practical joe

    Anthony, keep in mind that when the ignorant can’t attack the message — they attack the messenger.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    A thought for the day:
    I do not want my house to be walled in on all sides and my windows to be stiffled. I want all the cultures of all lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.
    -Mohandas K. Gandhi

    Back to the topic at hand. Mr. Eager resigned, he was not fired. He was in the middle of his 97 day probationary period having just started his employment with the Clay County School System. Clay County officials said that they were still deciding if they would file a report with the Professional Teaching Commission in Tallahassee. To date there is no word on the filing of the report. Failure to file a report is yet another indication of Clay County’s complete failure to be sensitive to gay issues. They’ve already dipped into their bank accounts in the last year to pay for damages imposed upon a lesbian high school student. If I were the parents of the two boys I would be filing civil suits against the Clay County School Board, Mr. Eager personally and the School Superintendent. It’s one thing to disparage the gay community in the public forum where people can spout off their bigotry and ignorance. It’s quite another to inflict it on kids in school. How anyone could ever condone what Mr. Eager did to those boys is beyond me. He violated every trust placed in him as a teacher.

  • Jewels

    “It’s been a little quiet in the ongoing battle between Texas and Florida for which state has the title of most intolerant and stupid population.” Of which I have some agreement.

    Anthony Grande, of which sect of Heaven did you descend? Your comments are on target. I do watch you that you don’t go off in ‘danger territory'; young wiseman that you seem to be, you toe the line with grace. That is the only way to Win the Battle. Good man. You are the Brightest Crayon In the Box.

  • practical joe

    Abortion is killing an unborn child.

    Killing an unborn child is evil.

    Looking into the face of an abortionist is looking into the face of evil.

  • Winston Jen

    I find it more evil to force a woman to go through with a pregnancy. We don’t even mandate blood donations, even though blood donations save lives, so why should abortion be outlawed?

  • Winston Jen

    Also, pj, you should complain to your god, if he exists, because the majority of pregnancies end in natural miscarraiges anyway.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Jewels, thank you for the kind words. People need encouragement like that.

    Silas, do you think Gandhi would be pro-Choice???

    >I find it more evil to force a woman to go through with a pregnancy<

    I find it more evil to take a life away. A woman dosen’t have to go through pregnancy, she doesn’t have to get pregnant.

  • practical joe

    Why should abortion be outlawed?

    Because it kills unborn children..

    What part of killing do you not understand?

    Your claim that the majority of pregnancies end in natural miscarriages is doubtful.

    But regardless, ALL of us die anyway, so why not allow all killing?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    When a someone dies in a miscarriage it is natural and unstopable.

    When someone is aborted it is unnatural and stopable.

  • Bennett

    If someone died in a miscarriage there would be lots of realy small cemetaries out there.

    Nope. Wrong again, Anthony.

    No one “dies in a miscarriage”. What happens is a zygote or fetus fails to develop enough to become a delivered baby. The mother’s body eliminates the unnecessary tissue. Much like an aborted pregnancy.

    Before delivery, no baby, no someone.

    Got that?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Bennett you talk about the first few weeks of a pregnancy and then you go off and talk about delivery. What is in the middle??? What is it man??? Blackness??? Emptiness??? It just skips that part???

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >Vendetta? As in….a blood feud? Outside of the law??? Please explain.<

    Either blood will be spilled or someone will get seriously hurt when a teacher forces me to hold hands with a boy and say I am gay.

  • Luke

    bennett, when you say before delivery, how long before? 5 minutes? a week? To be safe I think the line should be drawn very early, like the first week, when the fetus is just some fungus splattered on the wall of the womb, not when there’re arms and legs and stuff, no one should have to perform abortions every day and be aware of the fact that they’re dismembering little people with all the tiny semi formed limbs and organs to be considered human.

  • practical joe

    When an unborn child has a beating heart and can be seen via ultrasound and is moving and kicking, flushing it out with poisonous chemicals is killing.

    Killing a child is not just evil.

    It is a pernicious form of evil.

  • Bennett

    In the first trimester I have zero problem with abortion.

    Almost ALL abortions are carried out within a few weeks of a woman’s missed menstral period. Not even halfway through the first trimester.

    After the first trimester, abortions are perfomed rarely, but usually because of severe birth defects, NOT because the woman doesn’t want a baby.

    You have been blinded by the bullshit spin of the “moral majority”. Go look it up. How many “partial birth abortions” are carried out each year?

    How many women have abortions past the second month of pregnancy? The zygote is 1/10th of an inch and has no arms, legs, or internal organs at that point. This is the point at which women who accidently become pregnant have an abortion.

    Do you get it?

  • practical joe

    How many women have abortions past the second month of pregnancy?

    Enough to estimate the countless number of arms, legs, heads and other body parts of the children aborted.

    Check it out:

    http://priestsforlife.org/resources/monica/index.htm

    Do you get it now?

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    how long will BLogCritics allow threads on ALL topics to become threads about abortion, under the commentary of practical joe and Anthony Grande?

    I would think it would discourage people from posting articles and I would think it would affect search results and overall just corrupt the place.

  • XxX

    How is it correct to ask a woman to go through the pains of pregancy and giving birth and raising a child, when there is no law in the US to stop the male responsible (for the pregnancy) to walk free impregnating other women?
    Shouldn’t men/women be equally responsible?

  • Luke

    How is it correct to ask a woman to go through the pains of pregancy and giving birth and raising a child?

    How is it correct to ask a baby if it’s ok with being killed? And then go ahead and do it regardless one way or the other, either way you look at it, someone loses their rights, the right to not have a kid, the right to not get killed.

    there is no law in the US to stop the male responsible (for the pregnancy) to walk free impregnating other women

    He’s gotta pay child support doesn’t he? What the hell more do you want. Even if you ignore child support, it’s natural for the man to walk free and impregnate women, that’s just human nature, and with that knowledge in mind, it’s up to the woman to not make it easy for us, and if they do make it easy, then that’s tough shit, who said nature was fair?

  • XxX

    Luke,
    Well said! Nature isn’t fair.
    As much as the child has the right to not get the killed, the woman should also have the right to choose if she is willing to undergo the pains of pregnancy and raising a child.

    In the book “Freakonomics :…” the author argues that, one of the main reasons for the crime rate in America to decrease in the 90’s is, making abortion legal (in 1970’s). Hence, a lot of would-be criminals were unborn.

    How do you think a woman who hates having a baby (wanting an abortion) is going to love the child after its born and work hard to make the child an educated & respectable member of the soceity?

    A woman would seek abortion, if she is unmarried, doesnt think she can afford to support the child, or just plain hates having a child. Why do you want to make a law that forces her to have a child?

  • Bennett

    PJ – It’s no wonder that you continue to hold on to your delusions. If you get your “facts” from a religious website, what can you expect?

    Show me a NIH page (or a similarly unbiased gvt agency) that shows data gathered over a span of years to make your case.

    Otherwise it’s all religious dogma twisted into “factoids” for the little christian soldiers to throw around the internet.

    “The fetus was kicking and screaming as the needle began to explode its little baby heart…”

    Give me a whopper of a lie?

    Nah, I’ll pass. Facts young man, FACTS.

  • practical joe

    FACTS don’t count with Bennett.

    So How about PICTURES?

    All of the babies shown in this Gallery were aborted in either March or April 1987 at the Michigan Avenue Medical Center, 30 South Michigan Avenue, Chicago, Illinois.

    They were retrieved from the trash dumpster behind the abortion mill in the alley off of Monroe Street.

    About 600 babies were retrieved altogether in this 2 month period.

    Most aborted children are hard to track because they are intentionally dumped in trash dumpsters.

    These babies were buried May 11, 1987 at St. Mary’s Cemetery, Evergreen Park, Illinois by the Archdiocese of Chicago.

    http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/monica/mm5.htm

    Do all liberals approve of these killings?

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    >How many women have abortions past the second month of pregnancy< Anually in the U.S. alone there is 164,000 a year!!! Not worldwide, just the U.S.!!!

    Here: http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Comment 204, No one is asking a woman to go through the pains of a pregnancy and child raising. We didn’t force the woman to get pregnant.

  • RogerMDillion

    “How is it correct to ask a baby if it’s ok with being killed? ”

    What baby talks from inside the womb? That might be the voices in your head that you are hearing.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    How does a thread about a probationary, backwoods teacher imposing embarassment on his students get twisted into an abortion debate? When in doubt bring a fag and fetus out. I really wish the extreme right would find other preoccupations.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    Silas, go write a Baby Killing thread and I’ll meet you there.

  • KYS

    Silas,

    It’s the traditional Anthony Grandstanding on his holy trinity: Gays, Abortion, Aids….

    Just smile, nod and back away slowly.

  • http://www.nrlc.org/ Anthony Grande

    (laughing)

    I am assuming you are referring to religion again. Now tell me where and when I got Religious on you. My beliefs against Abortion, Gays, Aids, the Death penalty, ect. are based mostly on common sense.

  • KYS

    Did you read the word “religion” anywhere in my comment?

    Don’t assume, Anthony…you know the old saying…

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    …a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush?

  • practical joe

    A bun in the oven is worth baking.

    That’s the only way we get into this world.

    If society is going to kill, there should be a law to kill the abortionists who kill the innocent.

  • http://ezsgblog.com/vtdawson/index.php Bennett

    Wow. That’s some very wise and useful stuff there PJ. I see things differently now. You have done a great service to humanity by writing that comment!

    What abortionist are you targeting for your first “hit”?

    Do you want to get it on film, like, for the news? Or will this be a “mystery killer” sort of operation?

    Give me the details, man!

  • Luke

    What practical joe says makes perfect sense, if abortionists want there to be a possibility of death in the womb, then there should be a possibility of death outside the womb, abortionists should be entered into a govt. lottery, and if they win, they get to be picked off by a sniper, fair is fair.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    they aren’t comparable. WHile there is debate on when life begins, in one instance there is a ‘host’. The debate is on who has more rights, the host mother or the fetus.

    In the other case there is only a single individual, they aren’t comparable.

  • Luke

    They are so comparable, imagine the US is the host, and this parasite is growing on it, so BLAM! There is disposed of a useless piece of flesh, nice and painless too, didn’t even realize they had been killed.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Time to stop pussyfooting around. If you hard line rightists are that passionate about murdering those who are pro-choice, get the hell out of the United States. This is the land of freedom and opportunity. Everyone is supposed to be on a level playing field. If you can’t at least respect that, go someplace where you will be welcomed with open arms: Iran, the Sudan or Nigeria.

  • MirSusneHum

    All of this chatter over a newspaper article with incorrect facts!

    What was reported did not actually occur, although the teacher did say something he should not have out of frustration.

    He rightly resigned at having lost control, after a dedicated and successful career of over thirty years. He resigned immediately, before any action could be taken and will never teach again.

    He was actually new in Florida, having come from another state.

    He was in a 90 day probationary period of teaching when the incident occurred.

    The parents went to the news media BEFORE contacting administration, so the school was unaware the incident had even taken place.

    I often find myself sitting in immediate judgement upon reading articles in the news media, but having been a target of the media myself over the years, I know that the fourth estate will often misquote, get the facts wrong, or even skew the facts to sound more sensational.

    Unfortunately for the boys involved, having gone to the media has given them a measure of infamy among their peers: not one to their liking.

    As far as the tuxedo incident in the Clay County schools: the student disobeyed policy voted on by the senior class. There are many gay and lesbian students in the Clay County schools who are open about their orientation. There are many gay and lesbian teachers in the Clay schools who are also open about their orientation, many of whom are respected as among the finest educators.

    I am a parent in of students in the Clay County schools, including the school in which the blog-starting incident occured. One of the gay teachers in our schools is the finest teacher my daughter ever had, and will be remembered by his students as a great mentor. He is admired by the entire community.

    Unfortunately, the teacher in the above mentioned article was also admired by the majority of his students, as someone who inspired them to reach their greatest potential and who made learning fun. How sad he had to end his career on this note.