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Fanged Christians v. Tender Christians

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As a lifelong observer of the spectrum of folks who declare that they cleave to Jesus, I have a few thoughts, some more charitable than others.

At one end of the spectrum are what today my dear friend The Blue suggested I call the Fanged Christians – zealots who have co-opted the name of Jesus but do few of the radical acts he required. At the other end are the tirelessly kind and humble, quiet folk who tend to ‘the least of these’ as their devotion of acts in Jesus’ name and service, the Tender Christians.

Alas, our nation is in the grip of the Fanged Christians who have little to do with Jesus’ breathtakingly radical exhortations to Love Your Enemy, Turn Your Other Cheek, Turn Your Other Towers. It is a deep shame that the Fanged get to blurt and bleat his name to cover horrible and even brutal acts of violence and intolerance.

Fanged Christians are people who are willing to call children mutilated by our preemptive acts of war, collateral damage. They are willing to cut Medicaid and to allow an absurd, an obscene minimum wage while lining the bulging pockets of the have-mosts with more filthy lucre. Can you really imagine that Jesus would countenance that the have-mosts should have yet more? It’s preposterous on the face of it.

The beauty of Jesus was that he dared to be tender. His job was to tend to the fragile, the poor, the outcast – because these people were not outcast by God, but by the false powers and contumely of men.

If there were a Satan and he set out to mock the simple, fiercely mild truths of Jesus, he’d devise twisting exactly our sweet hope of the poor, hope of the tempest-tossed, beloved America into the wretched greedy, belligerent travesty it has become today. Satan smirks. Jesus weeps.
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  • http://selfaudit.blogspot.com Aaman

    The warrior versus the priest, et al

  • gonzo marx

    more like the Hypocrite versus the Inspired.

    well done pogblog…

    a good read, as usual

    Excelsior!

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Pogblog,

    I understand your intent, and if I were a Christian, my comments would mirror Gonzo’s.

    But I’m a Jew, and in OUR history, both the Fangèd and the Tender variety of Christian donned hob-nailed boots and stamped in our faces, screaming “damn the infidel for killing our lord!” This they did for over 16 centuries.

    The piece is well written. But praise for the ideas expressed comes just a little harder.

    Sorry.

  • witheld

    simplistic…so when the fangers take scripture out of context they are, how did you put it, “those who have co-opted the name of Jesus”.

    Irony much?

  • Ahrimahn

    If you actually read the New Testament I think you would find that Jesus was not the leftest that you think he was. For example, Jesus regularly told people to go and sin no more. Most liberals consider sin to be a reactionary concept.

  • Ahrimahn

    But I’m a Jew, and in OUR history, both the Fangèd and the Tender variety of Christian donned hob-nailed boots and stamped in our faces, screaming “damn the infidel for killing our lord!”

    Actually I think that so-called “anti-Semitism” had more to do with the Jewish tendency to move into other peoples’ countries uninvited than with the death of Jesus.

  • gonzo marx

    to Ruvy…

    never have i stated i was a “christian”

    if you scan my Comment back to my first appearance on BC you will find that i don’t use the words “believe” in anything i say about my own thoughts or Opinions

    to what i Commented on earlier, and your responsive Comment…

    to my way of Thinking…those that truly Observe what Yeshua ben Miriam (aka Christ) taught, NO type of Persecution of ANYONE would be remotely conceivable…that those calling themselves “christians” would do so shows that they have no clear Concept of, much less adherance to…the Principles he taught

    my point is that actual followers of those Principles are a rare breed indeed…and that much of the bloodshed done in the Name of those Teachings stem from the Church rather than the Philosophy

    Excelsior!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerualem

    I never stated that you were a Christian. But your comments are generally informed by a good understanding of Christianity and a sympathetic view of its precepts.

    This is enough to infer that whatever your religious beliefs are now, they started with Christianity.

    So, if I were a Christian, with that sympathetic view of its precepts, I would have agreed with your statements.

    Nuff said?

  • zingzing

    Ahrimahn: “Actually I think that so-called “anti-Semitism” had more to do with the Jewish tendency to move into other peoples’ countries uninvited than with the death of Jesus.”

    where do you live? people move. white people aren’t native to america… nor south africa… black people aren’t native to america. hispanics aren’t native to asia. asians aren’t native to mexico. arabs aren’t native to america. does it mean they shouldn’t be there? that they have no right to exist there? that idea fuck right off. wherever you are born, wherever your parents take you, wherever you flee to, wherever you find work, life, justice, whatever, that’s where the hell you are, so that’s where you belong. it’s fucking simple. don’t complicate the world with hate. duh.

    “jewish tendency?” what the fuck is that?

    “so-called “anti-semitism”?” um… yeah… i’d say it exists. the holocaust? mmmhmm. that’s called genocide, honey.

    “other peoples’ countries?” who owns a country? ever heard of “america for americans?” that’s just a phrase that says “hate.”

    “uninvited?” were you invited to “your” country? i wasn’t to mine. didn’t get a letter in the mail… “hey! please come to america… oh, you’re already here!? what?! fuck you! fuck you! get out!” whatever.

    people who hate jews just because they are jews are nasty assholes. as bad as people who hate black people just because they are black. it’s fucking disgusting. i’m not calling you a racist or an anti-semite, but your comment smells of intolerance and bigotry. it’s just a foolish thing to say.

  • gonzo marx

    no worries Ruvy…and fair enough

    i was just attempting some clarification for the Record

    Excelsior!

  • Ahrimahn

    where do you live? people move. white people aren’t native to america

    People do move and indigenous people have a right to be angry when foreigners move onto their land without invitation.

  • Ahrimahn

    “jewish tendency?” what the fuck is that?

    Jews originated in the Middle East and yet can be found in areas far away from their point of origin.

  • Ahrimahn

    “so-called “anti-semitism”?” um… yeah… i’d say it exists. the holocaust? mmmhmm. that’s called genocide, honey

    But why did it happen? Because the Jews refused to stay in the Middle East where they originated.

  • Ahrimahn

    “other peoples’ countries?” who owns a country? ever heard of “america for americans?” that’s just a phrase that says “hate.”

    So if a Native American Indian were against non-Native Americans living in North America you would consider him to be engaging in hate?

  • Ahrimahn

    people who hate jews just because they are jews are nasty assholes

    Very few people hate Jews just because they are Jews. Many people hate Jews because they moved into other peoples’ countries uninvited.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerualem

    Well Ahriman, at least you capitalized “Jew.” From your point of view, I guess I’m where I belong, though I didn’t originate there. Two positive points, eh?

    Let’s take two of your statements above,

    1. But why did it happen? Because the Jews refused to stay in the Middle East where they originated.

    2. Very few people hate Jews just because they are Jews. Many people hate Jews because they moved into other peoples’ countries uninvited.

    It would help if you knew a little history – so let’s add some for you. This was published in 1969 – it is called “A letter to the world from Jerusalem.” It is a link within my own article, I am a Jerusalemite, published on right here at Blog Critics.

    A letter to the world from Jerusalem
    by Eliezer ben Yisrael (Stanley Goldfoot)

    (This was originally an editorial published in the Jerusalem Times in 1969. It is still highly relevant considering the current political situation.)

    I am not a creature from another planet, as you seem to believe. I am a Jerusalemite-like yourselves, a man of flesh and blood. I am a citizen of my city, an integral part of my people.

    I have a few things to get off my chest. Because I am not a diplomat, I do not have to mince words. I do not have to please you or even persuade you. I owe you nothing. You did not build this city, you did not live in it, you did not defend it when they came to destroy it. And we will be damned if we will let you take it away.

    There was a Jerusalem before there was a New York. When Berlin, Moscow, London, and Paris were miasmal forest and swamp, there was a thriving Jewish community here. It gave something to the world which you nations have rejected ever since you established yourselves- a humane moral code.

    Here the prophets walked, their words flashing like forked lightning. Here a people who wanted nothing more than to be left alone, fought of waves of heathen would-be conquerors, bled and died on the battlements, hurled themselves into the flames of their burning Temple rather than surrender, and when finally overwhelmed by sheer numbers and led away into captivity, swore that before they forgot Jerusalem, they would see their tongues cleave to their palates, their right arms wither.

    For two pain-filled millennia, while we were your unwelcome guests, we prayed daily to return to this city. Three times a day we petitioned the Almighty: “Gather us from the four corners of the world, bring us upright to our land, return in mercy to Jerusalem, Thy city, and swell in it as Thou promised.” On every Yom Kippur and Passover, we fervently voiced the hope that next year would find us in Jerusalem.

    Your inquisitions, pogroms, expulsions, the ghettos into which you jammed us, your forced baptisms, your quota systems, your genteel anti-Semitism, and the final unspeakable horror, the holocaust (and worse, your terrifying disinterest in it)- all these have not broken us. They may have sapped what little moral strength you still possessed, but they forged us into steel. Do you think that you can break us now after all we have been through? Do you really believe that after Dachau and Auschwitz we are frightened by your threats of blockades and sanctions? We have been to Hell and back- a Hell of your making. What more could you possibly have in your arsenal that could scare us?

    I have watched this city bombarded twice by nations calling themselves civilized. In 1948, while you looked on apathetically, I saw women and children blown to smithereens, after we agreed to your request to internationalize the city. It was a deadly combination that did the job- British officers, Arab gunners, and American-made cannon. And then the savage sacking of the Old City-the willful slaughter, the wanton destruction of every synagogue and religious school, the desecration of Jewish cemeteries, the sale by a ghoulish government of tombstones for building materials, for poultry runs, army camps, even latrines.

    And you never said a word.

    You never breathed the slightest protest when the Jordanians shut off the holiest of our places, the Western Wall, in violation of the pledges they had made after the war- a war they waged, incidentally, against the decision of the UN. Not a murmur came from you whenever the legionnaires in their spiked helmets casually opened fire upon our citizens from behind the walls.

    Your hearts bled when Berlin came under siege. You rushed your airlift “to save the gallant Berliners”. But you did not send one ounce of food when Jews starved in besieged Jerusalem. You thundered against the wall which the East Germans ran through the middle of the German capital- but not one peep out of you about that other wall, the one that tore through the heart of Jerusalem.

    And when that same thing happened 20 years later, and the Arabs unleashed a savage, unprovoked bombardment of the Holy City again, did any of you do anything?

    The only time you came to life was when the city was at last reunited. Then you wrung your hands and spoke loftily of “justice” and need for the “Christian” quality of turning the other cheek.

    The truth- and you know it deep inside your gut- you would prefer the city to be destroyed rather than have it governed by Jews. No matter how diplomatically you phrase it, the age old prejudices seep out of every word.

    If our return to the city has tied your theology in knots, perhaps you had better reexamine your catechisms. After what we have been through, we are not passively going to accommodate ourselves to the twisted idea that we are to suffer eternal homelessness until we accept your savior.

    For the first time since the year 70, there is now complete religious freedom for all in Jerusalem. For the first time since the Romans put a torch to the Temple, everyone has equal rights (You prefer to have some more equal than others.) We loathe the sword- but it was you who forced us to take it up. We crave peace, but we are not going back to the peace of 1948 as you would like us to.

    We are home. It has a lovely sound for a nation you have willed to wander over the face of the globe. We are not leaving. We are redeeming the pledge made by our forefathers: Jerusalem is being rebuilt. “Next year” and the year after, and after, and after, until the end of time- “in Jerusalem”!

    Now that you have reqd that, I want to re-emphasise ONE paragraph and rub your nose in it.

    “For two pain-filled millennia, while we were your unwelcome guests, we prayed daily to return to this city. Three times a day we petitioned the Almighty: ‘Gather us from the four corners of the world, bring us upright to our land, return in mercy to Jerusalem, Thy city, and swell in it as Thou promised.’ On every Yom Kippur and Passover, we fervently voiced the hope that next year would find us in Jerusalem.”

    The Roman savage animals drove us from our homes 2 millennia ago and we are finally returning. Who are you to DARE condemn us for living where we could draw breath, under persecution for two thousand years?

    If I seem just a bit impolite, I will repeat Stanley Goldfoot’s words so you understand very clearly…

    “I have a few things to get off my chest. Because I am not a diplomat, I do not have to mince words. I do not have to please you or even persuade you. I owe you nothing!”

    Remember that Ahriman.

  • zingzing

    ew, that’s nasty. yes, if a native american indian decided that america was “his” land and that white people, black people, asians, jews, hispanics, arabs and penguins couldn’t live here anymore, he’d be a bigotted asshole. simple, isn’t it?

    “But why did it [the holocaust] happen? Because the Jews refused to stay in the Middle East where they originated.”

    what!? no, it happened because of hatred. the jews can live anywhere they goddamn please. so can germans. i don’t have any hatred for the german guy who lives next door. i wouldn’t care if he was from a land where they ate urine and pooped chainsaws. and if the jews originated in the middle east, why are the middle eastern arabs trying to kick them out of there? hmm?

    “People do move and indigenous people have a right to be angry when foreigners move onto their land without invitation.”

    fuck no, they don’t. WHERE DO YOU LIVE? WHAT IS YOUR ETHNIC BACKGROUND? did you get an invitation? THEY DON’T EVEN MAKE INVITATIONS!!!

    “Very few people hate Jews just because they are Jews. Many people hate Jews because they moved into other peoples’ countries uninvited.”

    can anyone tell the difference between an “invited” jew and an “uninvited” jew? nope. so they’re just jews. and “many people” hate jews, invited or univited, because they are jews. what, do the “invited” jews have a stamp on their foreheads? “i was invited! love me, but hate this other jew, you pig.” most of them were born in the country where they live. they have just as much a right to be there as any “native,” because THEY ARE NATIVE!

    you haven’t said anything that makes you look like less of a racist. i’m starting to doubt that you’re not. troubling. what if the tables were turned and it was your people that had been constantly run out and stepped on and massacred and hated for centuries? what then? you should have some empathy for your fellow human beings. judge people as individuals. you’ll be much happier, and you’ll free up some time.

    i feel like you must be joking. that you’re sitting there on the other side of the computer with your spotty teenage friends, skipping 10th grade math classes, saying “hey, let’s wind up this liberal blabbermouth!” the things you say are ridiculous.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    So if a Native American Indian were against non-Native Americans living in North America you would consider him to be engaging in hate?

    Good luck ever getting an answer to that one. It’s only bad when Anglos resent people trying to invade and take over THEIR lands. As long as the skin has a sufficient amount of melanin in it, then that attitude is considered perfectly fine!

    This was a response to the following rant:

    “other peoples’ countries?” who owns a country? ever heard of “america for americans?” that’s just a phrase that says “hate.”

    The people who own a country are the human beings who NOW live in it and love it. “native” means “born in”. Whatever the demographics may have been in the distant past doesn’t count for shit.

  • zingzing

    right on ruvy. that was quite a read.
    btw-my comment refers to Ahrimahn’s comments.

  • gonzo marx

    clue incoming…

    Ahrimahn =
    In ancient Persian religion (Zoroastrianism), Ahriman (aka Arimanius or Angra Mainya) stood high in the ranks of the enemies who opposed Ahura Mazda (aka Ohrmazd or Oromasdes). Ahriman is thought to be the first personification of “the Devil” because Zoroastrians believed in a completely dualistic form of religion.

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • Ahrimahn

    The Roman savage animals drove us from our homes 2 millennia ago and we are finally returning. Who are you to DARE condemn us for living where we could draw breath, under persecution for two thousand years?

    And what does the Roman Empire have to do with the fact that so many Jews apparently felt that they had a right to move to places such as Russia, Germany and Poland? Are you saying that the Russians, Germans and Poles must take responsiblity for the actions of the Romans against the Jews 2,000 years ago?

  • Ahrimahn

    ew, that’s nasty. yes, if a native american indian decided that america was “his” land and that white people, black people, asians, jews, hispanics, arabs and penguins couldn’t live here anymore, he’d be a bigotted asshole. simple, isn’t it?

    If you really believe that then you don’t understand human nature.

  • Ahrimahn

    what!? no, it happened because of hatred. the jews can live anywhere they goddamn please.

    If Jews in the future have that attitude then there will almost certainly be more holocausts. Humans are a territorial species and resent newcomers moving into their lands.

  • Ahrimahn

    can anyone tell the difference between an “invited” jew and an “uninvited” jew?

    When were the Jews invited to Europe? Answer: they weren’t.

  • http://w6daily.winn.com/ Phillip Winn

    Folks, don’t feed the troll. Ahrimahn, where do you live and what is your nationality? Given your statements, I think you should answer that before expecting any other responses to your blog-vomit.

  • Ahrimahn

    what if the tables were turned and it was your people that had been constantly run out and stepped on and massacred and hated for centuries?

    If my people were living in someone else’s country then I would say that they brought it on themselves.

  • Ahrimahn

    Ahrimahn, where do you live and what is your nationality?

    Actually I am one of those “melting pot” types being a mixture of various Protestant and Catholic European ethnicities. I live in the United States and would not blame any Native American who decided to use violence to reclaim the land that I am now living on.

  • Ahrimahn

    you should have some empathy for your fellow human beings. judge people as individuals.

    I do have sympathy for my fellow human beings but I also understand and accept human nature for what it is. Humans are territorial and will fight to maintain control of land that they feel to be theirs. Many Jews regard Israel as a gift from God. Many gentiles feel the same way about their own countries.

  • http://w6daily.winn.com/ Phillip Winn

    Ahrimahn, where do you live and what is your nationality?

  • gonzo marx

    and so the “devil” speaks more

    Excelsior!

  • http://w6daily.winn.com/ Phillip Winn

    Ah, self-loathing is a prize reserved for the truly fortunate. Most people in this world don’t have the luxury of spewing bile from the comfort of a naturally guilt-free lifestyle.

    There’s no such thing as a country that belongs to anyone forever. There never has been, and there never will be. All things change over time, and the idea that any ethnic group is forbidden from wandering beyond some arbitrary border at the risk of genocide is disgusting.

  • Ahrimahn

    There’s no such thing as a country that belongs to anyone forever.

    What about Israel?

  • Ahrimahn

    the idea that any ethnic group is forbidden from wandering beyond some arbitrary border at the risk of genocide is disgusting

    No, it’s human nature.

  • http://w6daily.winn.com/ Phillip Winn

    No, it’s not. Only when Jews are involved do “we” suddenly decide that murder is acceptable, and from there we retro-rationalize and say that we deserve the same for imagined offenses. Utter nonsense.

    There are millions of non-Jewish people in Israel, and they run the risk of being murdered only by insane Palestinaisn who blow themselves up in Israel, consumed with hatred.

  • http://leftistjoe.blogspot.com Joseph Johaneman

    I think the real dividing line that we need to worry about is the line between Progressive Christians and Fundamentalist Christians. A Fundamentalist of any faith is dangerous to the liberty and security of a nation, because they have no problem with the idea of legislating their beliefs and ramming it down the throats of those who don’t necessarily share their views. Fundamentalists don’t see the subtle shades of grey. They see only black and white. Extremists, whether they are Muslim, Jew, Christian, Hindu, or any other religion, need to be reigned in.

    Of course, Religion is one of those subjects that just brings out the worst in people. No matter what you say, someone is going to attack your point of view.

    It’s a shame that most people just can’t have a reasonably honest, open-minded discussion of religion. A theologian once said there’s nothing wrong with being a professional theologian or an amateur theologian, but there’s everything wrong with being a sloppy or ignorant theologian. And that’s what happens with religion. Many people take a side, defend it to the death, and refuse to acknowledge that the other side might have a point. They point to sources like the Bible, The Torah, or the Quran, and say that this is the way it is and that’s all there is to it.

    It’s sad that in a country founded with Freedom of Religion as a primary right, many so-called religous people feel the need to tell me my religion is wrong. It’s true that our society is not secular. It never has been; never will be. But it’s not a theocracy, either. Don’t mandate your God on me. I have my own.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • zingzing

    human nature is horrible. people are evil. just because i say that people should be able to live as they please doesn’t mean that i don’t understand that some people will be pissed about it. i just can’t understand why that’s a part of human nature. it’s infantile, stupid and wrong. look at the middle east. they’re over there fighting over just the kind of crap you speak of. it’s really moronic. that kind of stuff belongs in the past. the world’s too crowded and mobile for that type of attitude to exist anymore.

    you “would not blame any Native American who decided to use violence to reclaim the land that [you are] now living on?” i’m sure you’d be happy. not only do you exhibit racist tendancies, you’re a bit masochistic. or lying.

    “When were the Jews invited to Europe? Answer: they weren’t.” okay, but when were the europeans invited to europe? answer: they weren’t. they walked from some (african) part of some supercontinent… you could say they wandered in the wilderness til they got to europe. people don’t invite people to live places because no one has the right or the power to decide that. you’re arguing a totally useless point.

  • Ahrimahn

    Only when Jews are involved do “we” suddenly decide that murder is acceptable, and from there we retro-rationalize and say that we deserve the same for imagined offenses

    So when the ANC used violence against whites in South Africa, everyone was on the side of the whites? I don’t think so. From what I recall, Nelson Mandela was considered a hero even though he had killed white people who were occupying his ancestral homeland.

  • Ahrimahn

    There are millions of non-Jewish people in Israel, and they run the risk of being murdered only by insane Palestinaisn who blow themselves up in Israel, consumed with hatred

    Many of those non-Jewish people would regard Israel as the problem.

  • Ahrimahn

    the world’s too crowded and mobile for that type of attitude to exist anymore

    That type of attitude will continue to exist regardless of how crowded the world becomes.

  • Ahrimahn

    but when were the europeans invited to europe? answer: they weren’t.

    And I am sure that the Neanderthals were incredibly annoyed about it but they no longer exist. The problem is that the Europeans – unlike the Neanderthals – do continue to exist.

  • Ahrimahn

    i’m sure you’d be happy. not only do you exhibit racist tendancies, you’re a bit masochistic. or lying.

    No, I am just someone who understands and accepts human nature the way it is.

  • http://gratefuldread.net Natalie Davis

    And don’t mandate it for those who don’t want or need a spook in the sky.

    As for the troll, not everyone accepts the limitations of human nature. Some people strive to do and be BETTER. Mr. Ahrimahn should try it sometime.

    I’m with Mr. Johaneman: When contemplating Christians, the line is drawn between progs and fundies, those who love and those who hate, those who think and those who obey.

    Oh, and Mr. Ruvy: Please don’t blame modern-day progressive Christians for the actions of hideous people who did unconscionable things in Jesus’ name throughout history. And thank you – thank you – thank you for your words above.

  • http://www.djradiohead.com DJRadiohead

    I’m with Mr. Johaneman: When contemplating Christians, the line is drawn between progs and fundies, those who love and those who hate, those who think and those who obey.

    This strikes me as an oversimplification.

  • Baronius

    This article is too subtle. Which side are we supposed to root for, the Fanged or the Tender?

    The article contributes nothing to the political debate. It says, in essence, “I hate people I consider evil”. Joseph Johaneman is a little more subtle, but arrives at the same place. Fundamentalists are bad; Progressives are good.

    But what is a religion’s fundamental beliefs? What do progressives want the religion to progess toward? If a religion is true and good, any so-called progession is a movement away from truth and goodness. Also, and this should be obvious, religions are different. (Maybe that isn’t obvious to some people.) A fundamentalist Druid will have little in common with a fundamentalist Calvinist. Terms such as fundamentalist don’t apply across religions.

    But back to Pog’s original point. Jesus didn’t say anything about the right level of Medicaid funding. Virtually nothing about war. Pog is injecting religion into the argument with a “God is on my side” fervor. By refusing to recognize that minimum wage, for example, may be debated by decent people, Pog becomes the moralizer.

  • http://w6daily.winn.com/ Phillip Winn

    A fundamentalist moralizer at that.

    Label doesn’t apply, you say? Neither does it in most of the conversation so far. When a word can mean anything, I say it fits. :-)

  • http://gratefuldread.net Natalie Davis

    Mr. Baronius, where do you see that Mr. pogblog hates anyone?

    Mr. DJRadiohead, duh. It’s a forum. Mr. Ruvy may be in the mood to write long paragraphs here; I am not. I made a brief comment and left it at that. Of course it is more complicated than that. What isn’t?

    NR Davis

  • Justin Berry

    Jesus did address the proper level of medicaid when he said “feed my Sheep”. He did not say ” they are too stupid to manage their social security accounts”. As for war in Romans Chapter 13 it says that no Government exists except that in which God has ordained. Therefore, I can assume if two countries are at war the victor will be the one favored by God.

    Ahrimahn– If a native American takes your place in my land by force, Where will you flee? Do you have an invitation?

  • http:ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Natalie wrote,

    “Oh, and Mr. Ruvy: Please don’t blame modern-day progressive Christians for the actions of hideous people who did unconscionable things in Jesus’ name throughout history. And thank you – thank you – thank you for your words above.”

    Thank you for your kind words.

    If I blame modern day progressive Christians for what they have done, it will not be for the sins of their ancestors centuries ago – it will be for what they have done in the last quarter century or so. There is, unfortunately, plenty of manure to turn in that small patch of time.

  • Baronius

    Natalie (#46), where do I see that Pog hates anyone? He calls people zealots who ignore most of Jesus’ message, and accuses them of bleating Jesus’ name to cover horrible and even brutal acts of violence and intolerance. He compares their actions to Satan. He could be saying these things out of a loving concern, had he not begun by denying any charitable intentions.

    Philip (#45), do I have to send you a nickel every time I use that line?

  • http:ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Natalie, here I go with a long paragraph again!

    It’s Ruvy – a Hebrew nickname for Reuven. My first name, dear. The name the rabbi gave me when he took my “tip” when I was an infant. My last name is an eight letter discombobulation that nobody can pronounce right, much less spell right.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com/ Christopher Rose

    RUVY: I wish you’d write a short dated checklist of the events to happen between now and 2030, according to your religious views and the prophecies you refer to.

    As you already know, even though I like you loads personally (must be my Jewish right leg) I don’t subscribe to those views, for a whole variety of reasons, even though you present them so very well. I’d just like a checklist so I can cross them off as they do or don’t happen.

    In the interests of fairness, I’d like also to get a list from all the other faithists, astrologists, numerologists, abductees and any other crystal ballers so I can keep score of their accuracy.

    I predict that almost none (statistics allows for a small number of positives) of the many prophecies made will ever come to pass and I’m prepared to keep score and buy drinks for anybody that pulls off a good one!

  • http:ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Oy, Chris, if only I could accomodate you.

    I could make a fortune of money doing the lotto tickets here, donate a fortune to charity, print up every single thing I (and others) have written that I thought had value, including a lot of the comments I (and others) have made here, buy a bunch of silver and gold one ounce coins, buy a troy scale, buy a fax machine, do a 4,000 shekel shopping for Sabbath and the coming several weeks and pay all my debts and pay for my relatives to come and settle here, tell my wife to quit her job, hire a housekeeper, and, and, and….

    And I could pay for you and yours to come to Israel and then treat you to a nice dinner (screw the coffee).

    It don’t work that way, my friend. Hakól talúi – everything depends. One choice closes off other choices, so that specific events can’t be called. That is basic physics. This is science, not astrology or numerology, or staring into a crystal ball. The predictions of the m’kubalim are only predictions, not prophecies, but the probabilities of the events occurring may be very high. Remember, divination is forbidden in Torah.

    So for the most part, the m’kubalim are not talking – perhaps because they do not agree. I do not know. I do not move in their circles, and if I did, I’d probably be sworn to secrecy. I repeat this. Diviniation is forbidden in Torah.

    So, given that, what follows is NOT a dated list, but a list of events to watch for. I claim no prophetic ability – I am only writing what I have heard m’kubalim and others say previously.

    These are not in any particular order.

    1. Watch for a strong man to emerge in Europe, most likely from Germany, Austria or some German speaking region there (Switzerland, northern Italy, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, etc.). This person could even emerge from the Netherlands or Flanders. This man will have strong links with Pope Benedict.

    2. Watch for the city of Basra in Iraq, or the village of Botzra in Israel, to be destroyed.

    3. Watch for gas attacks on the major cities of Israel, particularly Tel Aviv, Haifa and in the Galilee.

    4. Watch for an increase in the presence of American and European troops here, eventually culminating in what will finally be an invasion. This will not occur suddenly but gradually. As it does, the sovereignty of the State will erode. Eventually, in one way or another, the entire Knesset, High Court of Justice and the State President will die. (This last sentence is a specific warning made in 1989, not a threat I utter)

    5. Watch for a major and deathly outbreak of a virulent strain of the avian bird flu jumping from human to human. There will be no cure, and no vaccine will work against it. Watch also for the magnetic pole of the planet to move more. This will make it harder to predict migratory paths of birds.

    6. Watch for an outbreak of Moslem violence in Europe, followed by a sustained bloodbath of Moslems being killed by Christians there. This will occur in cnjunction with or after prediction #1.

    7. Watch for a rise in prophecy.

    8. Watch for one or more EMP’s to occur. This will create economic chaos where it strikes, and wreak the system of money and commerce.

    After the occurrence of the EMP’s, you will be unable to “watch” for events. Your (and my) computer will be worhless.

    All these events will occur (if they in fact occur) a lot sooner than 2030 – the year 5790 on the Hebrew calendar.

  • http://gratefuldread.net Natalie Davis

    Re: 50 – “My first name, dear.”

    Yes, Mr. Ruvy, I assumed that. Modern society’s mandated casualness (and disrespect) disgusts me. IMO, there is just something disturbing and potentially dangerous in using first names with those who are not on some intimate (i.e. friendship, trusted acquaintaince, family) level with me. I won’t address a human sans honorific unless he or she has some real relationship with me or there is some level of trust between us or unless I am forced to do otherwise (and FEW qualify for this dubious distinction).

    It’s traditional here for people to take all kinds of disgusting liberties with my name, regardless of my feelings about it. My conclusion: They enjoy hurting me. As such, sir, I assume you’ll do as you will.

    Respectfully,
    NR Davis

  • http:ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Ms. Davis,

    I was not trying to offend you or hurt you. To the degree that I did so, I apologize.

    But I do prefer to be called Ruvy.

  • http://gratefuldread.net Natalie Davis

    OK, and I should add that it did not occur to me that *you* were trying to be hurtful.

    All in all, I suspect the end is near. Can’t help but think that is probably a good thing.

  • Richard Brodie

    Chris: In the interests of fairness, I’d like also to get a list [of other prophecies] so I can keep score of their accuracy.

    Here’s mine:

    1. Due to the absence of a clear MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) understanding with the Muslims, similar to the one which kept our “war” with the Soviets a COLD one, Al Qaida will be emboldened to carry out its American Hiroshima plans to nuke several major American cities, killing 4 million (their estimate) and crippling the U.S. and hence world economies.

    2. The decimation of several big city blue areas will put the red forces firmly in control in the aftermath.

    3. It will be decided that American lives are more valuable than Muslim lives, and in order to make certain that there will never be any additional such attacks, and to eliminate once and for all any further threat to civilization posed by Genghis-Khan-like forces resurging from the Middle Ages, a large portion of our nuclear arsenal will be emptied onto every major Muslim population center in the Middle East, Africa, and South East Asia, thereby reducing Islam from 20% of the world’s population to around 5%.

  • http://selfaudit.blogspot.com Aaman

    4. Magically a bolt of lightning will hover over Richard’s head for days on end, irritating the hell out of him, and giving him a tingle every time he brushes his hair

  • Richard Brodie

    How is it that certain comments seem to get deleted from the Fresh Comments list?

  • Nancy

    Somebody mentioned in a pre-Christmas article on BC that the Mayan calendar only goes up to December, 2012. Wouldn’t ya know the world is going to end the year I can finally start to retire & collect my hard-earned money! Ruvy, who are the US/Europeans going to be invading – Isreal? It seems to read like that, but I’m not sure. Thanks.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com/ Christopher Rose

    I don’t understand what you mean, Richard. But I’m fairy sure your triple doom scenario isn’t going to happen. Give me a timeframe and let’s have a bet. Hmm, betting BlogCritics, that’s an interesting idea…

  • Richard Brodie

    Give me a timeframe

    I’m not going to try and pinpoint it down to the day (neither did Ruvy’s predicition of a Muslim bloodbath in Europe – whose comment survived in the FC list, BTW, and from whom you don’t seem to be requiring a timetable.) But with the understanding that my crystal ball has an inherent error of plus or minus a couple of years:

    1. 2008
    2. 2008
    3. 2008
    4. not really a prediction – it’s already happening!

    There is one Hiesenberg-like effect that could vindicate your statement I’m fairy sure your triple doom scenario isn’t going to happen – and that is, if my prophecy should happen to come to Mr. bin Laden’s attention and get him to thinking about how apocalyptically counterproductive his game plan could turn out to be. He might decide that a brief moment of exultation isn’t worth setting his cause back a millenium or so.

    And BTW I resent your lumping of #2 in as an item of doom :)

  • Richard Brodie

    I don’t understand what you mean

    All recent comments from this thread, including #60 which you just posted, are dropping off the Fresh Comments list after a couple of minutes. I’d really like to understand why that is happening.

  • http://w6daily.winn.com/ Phillip Winn

    Only the most recent comment for any given article shows up there. So this comment will bump yours off, and the next comment will bump this one off, and so on.

  • http://gratefuldread.net Natalie Davis

    Until the end of time…

  • http://pogblog.blogharbor.com pogblog

    I have read each word of the New Testament. A surprising amount of it is tribal — Our Guy is Biggest & Baddest & if you don’t believe what we believe, you’ll boil in sulphurous oils and spend an eternity of ‘conscious torment.’ The usual tribal gobbledegluck. (Check out ‘Timothy’ if you want a horror story with, presumably, biblical certitude. Shiver my timbers.)

    There are some compelling and wise thoughts among the dross, and I’m happy to applaud them. I object to this silly notion that these wisdoms are writ by some Blowhard God and have more credence than their mere good sense or inspiration would accord.

    Ruvy, I agree that many Christians have laid a hideous swathe through the ages. Sadly, they still are and that is what I was distinguishing. I have Christian friends who are truly Tender Christians, and I didn’t want to tar them with the furious brush I use on the ruthless Fanged. Ruthless in the sense of without pity.

    I hate hypocrisy. I feel like the radically kind Jesus gets a hideous rap in our day of War-Mongering Fanged Christians. Anyone who can actually contemplate Jesus dropping napalm (jellied gasoline) on anyone, let me know.

    NRD is inspiringly grounded, a wonderful quality in the often vaporous blogosphere.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com/ Christopher Rose

    Richard, I just wanted to say that you’re so much more persuasive and enjoyable to hang out with when you’re not angry and that I appreciate it. Still wrong, mind, but charmingly so.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalerm

    Nancy, I see that you’re paying attnetion. It was I who mentioned the Mayan calendar ending its long cycle in December, 2012.

    If an EMP is going to wipe out paper money and the worthless tokens we call coins, if pays to have silver and gold on hand, along with a troy scale to weigh it.

    And you read me right. The US/Europeans will invade Israel – this is pulled fom a Talmudic prediction that in the end of days, the sovereignty of the revived Jewish state would be extinguished by an “evil kingdom” for a short period of time.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalerm

    Oh, Chris, regarding those things to watch for.

    Print them up. An EMP (should it occur) will put Blog Critics out of business.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/Tales/tales.html Richard Brodie

    Ruvy, I’m curious. Does your EMP prophecy enVISION, so to speak, a cosmic GRB or a high altitude nuclear blast over the western hemisphere?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalerm

    Richard,

    I’m not relating a prophecy.

    Truth is about the EMP, is that I have no clue. But if it were something that were to “wipe the slate clean”, so to speak, I imagine it should be widespread (or numerous) enough to be rather thorough.

  • http://pogblog.blogharbor.com pogblog

    #57 — Richard may be bald — obviating the Thoresque tingle. (Thor being the primal lightning wielder.)

    #passim .. I am extremely cheerful about the future. An increase in consciousness will cause an increase in empathy — not because it would be nice, but because the more you grok, the more you identify with.

    Today’s Mayan date is 9 Earth . Caban . Earthquake. Heron . East . tzolkin 217 . 01.04.05 wed.

    I see the EMP being lightning in our multi-D holo-brains rather than some sci-fi movie blast. Or let’s say, psy-fi, except true. Ha!

    As we integrate lucid waking and lucid dreaming, we’ll become more sane. And then we can sanely proceed to make this precious planet the remarkable paradise it could be if we put all our mental, spiritual, and other resources to construction rather than destruction. (Luckily, Indoor Exclusive Religions will pop like soap bubbles for the poisonous hallucinations they are in their extremes. People won’t need the crutch.)

    I am giddy with anticipation for the post-prophetic era. With the coming energy pulses, we leapfrog all the apocalyptic end-times, by the way, and then they become moot.

    Why then, you ask, are we saddled with these venomous villains in DC, for instance? Well, in Jungian terms, we gotta deal with the Shadow — integrate the shadow before we can move to the next greater wholeness. It’s a lot better, oddly, to have these folks out where we can see them rather than hidden slimily under the rocks the way they used to be.

    So do be jolly — and stock up on your Vitamin Irony, all but fatally deficient in the American character.

  • gonzo marx

    pogblog makes my “hero of the day” award for his use of the term “grok” in a sentence

    a cookie for any of the gentle Readers who know what modern “objective gnostic” work of Myth it comes from….

    “waiting Is”

    Excelsior!

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    I was sickened to watch those two vipers McCain (R-Ariz)and Dorgan (D-N.D.) trying to act so morally indignant and superior towards Italia Federici, who I think handled herself superbly. I wanted to be there and cheer when she had the guts to get straight into McCain’s self-righteous face and accuse him of conducting a witch hunt. Because that’s exactly what these Abramoff hearings are, though not for the reason she gave (that her Republican environmental organization opposed McCain on oil drilling in Alaska).

    Influence is the currency in which all politicians trade. Dorgan’s and McCain’s viciously indignant posturing about the typical Washington activities of a minor player like Federici, are nothing more than an act intended to deflect attention and scrutiny away from their own activities.

    Trying to immolate this poor young woman for engaging in the kind of “juice” peddling that ALL politicians routinely engage in, with insinuations which reveal that they have already prejudged the case, is a disgusting travesty of objective inquiry.

  • gonzo marx

    so..you LIKE Abramoff and the fact that Federici took money from Tribes that was given to Abramoff so she would “juice” Interior officials about things other than “environmental” issues she is supposedly advocating from a supposed non-profit organization?

    fascinating

    i’m betting that since Abramoff copped a guilty plea to multiple counts in two separate Courts in exchange for naming names and turning evidence, a lot of folks will be pissing themselves in the months to come

    good to let some “sunlight” in on the K street project…gotta luv C-span…that’s fucking Reality Tv for ya…even better, you can download oodles of e-mails form their site concernign the back and forth between Abramoff and others detailing all the greed and corruption

    both sides of the aisle (admittedly more GOP will be implicated/indicted..but some Dems will be nailed too i hope)

    big difference between “influence peddling” and “bribery”

    the best is watching the miserable pigfuckers race to try and figure out how little they can “donate” of from the ill-gotten gains in order to try and save their asses

    i could not make this shit up kiddies…stay tuned

    Excelsior!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalerm

    Gonzo sez,

    pogblog makes my “hero of the day” award for his use of the term “grok” in a sentence

    a cookie for any of the gentle Readers who know what modern “objective gnostic” work of Myth it comes from….

    “waiting Is”

    Pay up, “Stranger in a Strange Land.”

  • gonzo marx

    cookie incoming…

    ——————–> (@)

    nicely done

    FYI Ruvy…if you know that book, then you know quite a bit of where i am coming from

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Would that be a Troll House cookie per chance?

  • http://gratefuldread.net Natalie Davis

    Darling Gonzo Marx: Stranger in a Strange Land, my fave sci-fi classic and the story of my life.

    As to “grok,” run a BC search – you’ll see it is not a new word around these parts.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com/ Christopher Rose

    Stranger In A Strange Land has been a touchstone book for me for about 40 years now, one which I’ve read many times, although not for over a decade now.

    I suspect it won’t have stood up to the test of time perfectly but it is still one of a short-ish group of books whic have heavily shaped my understanding of whatever the hell this is.

    The following is from the Amazon info:

    Editorial Reviews
    Amazon.com
    Stranger in a Strange Land, winner of the 1962 Hugo Award, is the story of Valentine Michael Smith, born during, and the only survivor of, the first manned mission to Mars. Michael is raised by Martians, and he arrives on Earth as a true innocent: he has never seen a woman and has no knowledge of Earth’s cultures or religions. But he brings turmoil with him, as he is the legal heir to an enormous financial empire, not to mention de facto owner of the planet Mars. With the irascible popular author Jubal Harshaw to protect him, Michael explores human morality and the meanings of love. He founds his own church, preaching free love and disseminating the psychic talents taught him by the Martians. Ultimately, he confronts the fate reserved for all messiahs.

    The impact of Stranger in a Strange Land was considerable, leading many children of the 60’s to set up households based on Michael’s water-brother nests. Heinlein loved to pontificate through the mouths of his characters, so modern readers must be willing to overlook the occasional sour note (“Nine times out of ten, if a girl gets raped, it’s partly her fault.”). That aside, Stranger in a Strange Land is one of the master’s best entertainments, provocative as he always loved to be. Can you grok it? –Brooks Peck

    From Library Journal
    In 1939 Heinlein published his first sf short story and became one of the most prolific and influential authors in the genre. Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) is an international best seller and a landmark in more ways than one: it opened the trade best sellers lists to sf writers, breaking down longstanding barriers that will never be seen again. At the same time Stranger became an emblem of the 1960s generation in its iconoclasm and free-love themes. Telling the story of an Earth baby raised by an existing, ancient Martian civilization, the novel often reads as if it were the “Playboy Philosophy” in dialog form. The man/ Martian comes to Earth and broadcasts his ideas by forming his own Church. Heinlein has been rightly criticized for presenting as facts his opinions, which state that organized religion is a sham, authority is generally stupid, young women are all the same, and the common individual is alternately an independent, Ayn Randian-producing genius and the dull-witted part of an ignorant and will-less mob. Yet the book is hard to put down; in its early pages it is a truly masterful sf story. Every library with a fiction collection should have it. Christopher Hurt reads with authority, nicely drawing the characters via barely perceptible changes in intonation, harshness, and pacing. Highly recommended.?Don Wismer, Office of the Secretary of State, Augusta, Me.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/Tales/tales.html Richard Brodie

    gonzo: so..you LIKE Abramoff

    I hate the whole concempt of lobbyists. My diatribe was directed against the hypocrisy of Senators who themselves feed on K street and don’t have the sense and/or courage to make the necessary changes to sweep the whole rotten system away.

    As long as we continue on with the notion that government has to get involved down to the minutest detail in every aspect of human interaction, there will be recurrent scandals, wars of finger pointing, blame casting, blame dodging, witch hunting, and the sacrificial immolation a few victims – followed by back to business as usual.

    I don’t think Federici did anything wrong. She insisted that she took no money for her personal use other than salary and reimbursement. Why would she lie about that and risk perjury charges? He sole crime is to have a name that makes it sound like she belongs to the Mafia. Well, that and giving infuriatingly straight answers that McCain and Dorgan didn’t want to hear and couldn’t handle in any other way than to retort with nasty threats and insinuations.

  • gonzo marx

    fair enuff Richard, and duly noted…i also detest the lobbyist system and consider that it does much to hurt our Republic

    as for Federici…we will just have to disagree

    in my Opinion, the record shows she has at the very least perjured herself to a Senate committee, and appears to be hip deep in the scandal as a “laundry”

    time will tell, and i appreciate the discourse

    Excelsior!

  • gonzo marx

    to Christopher, on our little R.A.H. sidetrack

    Spyder Robinson wrote a very nice short many years ago called RAH RAH R.A.H. which effectively debunks most of the bullshit detractors spewed over the years…hunt it down for a good read

    but let me take a moment to say…”Stranger” still holds up quite nicely

    also, any who think R.A.H. felt the way the review states about women should read “Friday” or one of my favorites “Job:a Comedy of Justice”…even “Glory Road” shows much more accurate depiction of a female R.A.H. character

    while it is accurate to say he invented the waterbed in “Stranger” and that the book was indeed adopted by many in hippie culture…the same year he also had published “Starship Troopers” which those left of center derided him for as being militaristic and borderline fascist

    to me, it shows the strength of his writing that in the same year some thought him a hippie and others a fascist

    the fact remains that he was an Annapolis graduate ( Mechanical Engineer) who was discharged due to tuberculosis, tried to enlist for WW2, when denied he worked in Philadelphia for the military and designed the bombsite used in the B-52’s (including the Enola Gay)…durig the ill fated Apollo 13 mission, it was his “S-curve” orbit (which he had creatred for a book years earlier) that allowed the capsule to even get close to returning to earth…after his death NASA awarded him their highest civilian Honor (with over 80% of NASA personnel crediting his writing as a major factor as to why they chose their profession)

    on and on

    my take? his Insight into human and especially the American psyche, and his ability to blend Metaphor, Analogy, Allegory as well as Science into vastly entertaining Stories places him to 20th century American Literature what Twain was to the 19th century…

    your mileage may vary

    Excelsior!

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com/ Christopher Rose

    gonzo: please re-read my opening sentence. I think he’s a genius and own threadbare copies of almost everything he ever wrote.

  • gonzo marx

    Christopher..oh, i gather you were a Reader of his stuff…no worries!!

    i was just ranitng in response to some of what was in the Review you copied into Comments…and went off a bit

    my apologies for any misUnderstanding…the whole thing was just a bit to exchange some background with Ruvy(or anyone else who gives a shit) since he was polite enough to answer some Question sfor me in other Threads…

    oh yeah…and Suss….of COURSE it was a troll house cookie!!!

    is there any other kind?

    Excelsior!

  • http://pogblog.blogharbor.com pogblog

    Ah, ‘grok.’ Four letter words that end in ‘k’ have a proven power.

    ‘Understand’ or ‘comprehend’ are jellyfish words — while ‘grok’ is a Muhammad-Ali left-uppercut word. It’s also something the Powers That Be can’t do. It’s a subversive and tasty word.

  • http://gratefuldread.net Natalie Davis

    Few are tastier, that’s for sure.

  • http:/ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Gonzo sez,

    *FYI Ruvy…if you know that book, then you know quite a bit of where i am coming from*

    Same here, Gonzo.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    gonzo: in my Opinion, the record shows she [Italia Federici] has at the very least perjured herself to a Senate committee, and appears to be hip deep in the scandal as a “laundry”

    I’m not ready to lynch this young lady based on the picture painted by a media with an agenda, hungry for sensationalist news.

    Federici belongs to a Republican environmental advocacy organization. Does anyone seriously believe that Abramoff is the only lobbyist in Washington D.C. who trades in favors and influence? Justice is not only punishing the guilty. It is also not letting other equally guilty parties get off without punishment.

    So let the e-mail correspondence of every other advocacy group be subpoenaed, and then we shall see whether it is subtantially any different than that which went on between Abramoff and Federici! Of course this will not happen, because nobody wants to see virtually every Congressman behind bars, and the entire government shut down.

  • zingzing

    “nobody wants to see virtually every Congressman behind bars, and the entire government shut down?”

    well… wouldn’t you get some sort of momentary satisfaction? remember when newt shut down the gov’t for a few days to save money/piss clinton off? heady days… heady days…

  • gonzo marx

    Richard sez…
    *I’m not ready to lynch this young lady based on the picture painted by a media with an agenda, hungry for sensationalist news.*

    neither am i , by just what the media has out there…

    what i am talking about are the Senate transcripts from the hearings…ya can find them at C-SPAN’s website…comparing this november’s testimony with ’04 testimony, as well as the testimony from other witnesses…perjury is the LEAST of the possible charges…

    but i do agree…let us see what happens officially via the legal Sysytem

    Richard sez…
    *Of course this will not happen, because nobody wants to see virtually every Congressman behind bars, and the entire government shut down.*

    “nobody”????

    incorrect…i know i would LOVE to see all those miserable pigfucking greedheads from BOTH sides of the aisle be held Accountable to the Law with the same vehemence that have legislated for others ( zero tolerance, 3 strikes, etc)

    lock up whomever deserves it, kick out those in Question..and start all over

    that’s what i call a “good beginning”

    your mileage may vary

    Excelsior!

  • http://www.iamcorrect.com Lono

    My thoughts about the Christian right (aka The American Taliban) are the same as Muslim extremists. They are representing you, and unless you stand against them publically and forcefully and say to the world

    NO, THIS IS NOT WHAT WE STAND FOR

    then all Christians will be perceived as right wing psychotic nutjobs surely as the Arab world is regarded my many. James Dobson is your spokesman, and he is making enemies of rational folk quicker than Bin Laden.

  • Baronius

    Whoa, Abramoff is now being used as a proxy for fanged Christians? I hate to point out the obvious, but he’s not a Christian.

  • gonzo marx

    and i hate to be the one to break it to you Baronius( tho i agree, he is no real “christian”) but he and Scanlon were often seen in DeLay’s office, praying together when they both worked for DeLay

    cited many times by other staffers…but not much of a Story now

    no…i don’t hold him(Abramoff) as an “example”…

    however, there are many instances of those proclaiming their “faith” from the rooftops while defaming it by their actions

    would that more tried to live by the Principles of their Beliefs and less by crowing about how “saved” they are

    Pride cometh before the Fall

    Excelsior!