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Do You Know Where The Next Bin Laden Is Coming From?

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…From superpower-in-waiting India, silly!

All Muslims are not Terrorists, but all Terrorists are Muslims

After the death of more than 200 commuters in the coordinated Mumbai train blasts in July, 2006, the city police in an effort to prove that no stone is being unturned to catch the culprits raided the shanties and flats of the Muslim ghettos throughout the metropolis. Houses were searched, cupboards were emptied, and mattresses were turned upside down. While the women were spared, the men in the house – fathers, sons, uncles, cousins – were taken to the nearest police station for further interrogation. Almost all of them were later released.

It is believed that Islamist terrorists were behind the blasts and this logic gave a moral license to the country's authorities to put an entire community to suspicion.

Muslims in India

Islam is the second largest religion in India. True. India has the largest number of Muslims after Indonesia. True. Indian Muslims are the only Muslims in the world who are fortunate to repeatedly cast votes in free democratic elections in their native lands. True. Some of India's top film stars are Muslims. True. There have been three Muslim Presidents in India, including the present one. True. India's richest man is a Muslim. True. The Indian whose company manufactures cheap AIDS medicines for the world's poor is a Muslim. True. India's greatest ornithologist was a Muslim. True. Taj Mahal was built by a Muslim. True.

So what's the problem?

Muslim Pie in India

According to the 2001 Census of India, Muslims constitute 13.4% of the country's population. But they account for just 3% of government employees, and an even smaller percentage are employed by private Hindu businesses. Meanwhile, in the cities, 30% of Muslims are illiterate, vs. 19% of Hindus. Literacy rate of Muslims is 59.1, vs. 65.11 of Hindus. Work participation rate is 31.3, vs. 40.4 of Hindus. The statistics of the Hindus, who constitute more than 80% of the total population, should be kept in perspective while comparing these figures.

Islam in India’s Domestic Politics

Muslims are generally sympathetic to the country's apparently secular political parties. They are advised to vote for these parties if they do not wish to be eaten alive by the Hindu fundamentalists, who happen to have a very impressive following in the country.

Sadly, these secular parties have done nothing to lift Muslims from their pothole of primitive madrasa education and abject poverty. They treat Muslims as mere vote banks.

Muslims Not Wanted

Salman Rushdie in his novel The Moor's Last Sigh observed that if somebody hates India, he just needs to destroy Mumbai. We Indians are quite up to the task.

Mumbai is considered to be the most cosmopolitan city of India. In a land where everything is ancient and thousand-years-old, Mumbai stands out as a New World where old identities can be jettisoned to shape a new one. What New York City is to the world, Mumbai is to India. People from all corners and communities of the country are attracted to this dream city for the realization of a better future. Mumbai is said to accept all in its arms.

Do not believe it. It is a myth. If you are a Muslim, no matter how much money you have, you will find it difficult to rent a flat in any respectable middle-class locality. A Muslim in an otherwise-cosmopolitan Mumbai is bound to end up in a ghetto. The story repeats itself in cities like Delhi, too.

Those Dirty Muslims

Muslims are generally deemed by a majority of Hindus as minorities in bigoted nations are usually considered to be: unclean, uneducated, and unpatriotic. But if anyone in the community tries to get himself out from this cliché, he is quickly dumped back to his old place.

So, why not continue to live within the frames of the stereotype picture?

The Culture of Riots

Indian spirit, if vaporized down to its essence, consists of four essentials: Politics, Bollywood, cricket and Hindu-Muslim riots.

According to a 2005 report in TIME magazine, in all the communal riots since independence, official police records reveal that three-quarters of the lives lost and properties destroyed were Muslim.

It would be seriously biased to only blame the Hindus but it is the Muslim community which always suffers the most.

One of the worst tragedies that could have befallen an independent India was not Mahatma Gandhi's assassination, but the 1992 destruction of an abandoned mosque in Ayodhya in North India, which many Hindus believed and still maintain, was built on the ruins of an ancient temple. The event led to riots breaking out between the Hindus and Muslims throughout the country. Thousands of Indians lost their lives. Muslims were the worst victims. The Hindu fundamentalist leaders who were responsible for this tragedy nevertheless came to power in later years. In spite of the blood of innocent people sticking on to their hands, they remain as some of the most respectable politicians today.

Lesson of the story: In India, you can kill innocent Muslim men, rape their women, burn their children and could still become the country's prime minister. A Musslamaan’s life, or death, do not matter in this country, where everybody’s life is cheap anyways.

Justice to Muslims? No!

When Bombay was still not renamed Mumbai by Hindu conservatives, a riot, as a repercussion of the mosque demolition mentioned above, erupted in the city in 1993. Mr Bal Thackeray, the local politician of the city, was believed to have used his speeches to inflame the 'sentiments' of his thuggish partymen who took up the hint by massacring the Muslims in the streets. The Mussalmans were told to go to Pakistan or else…

More than 1000 innocent Muslims were killed.

One could be sure that some semblance of justice would be delivered to the recent blast victims who happened to be mostly Hindus. Some show of punishment would be accorded, this year, next year, or after fifteen years, to the perpetrators of that heinous attack. But as for the daylight murder of the 1000 Muslims, no justice has been provided yet. There has been not even a single conviction for the murder of thousands of Muslims. Mr Bal Thackeray has meanwhile retired from active politics and is expected to die a respectable natural death.

More Stories of Inhumanity and Injustice

In 2002, the wealthy state of Gujarat (ironically Mahatma Gandhi's home state) witnessed the first live televised riots of Indian history. More than 2000 Muslims were killed in order to avenge the burning of 58 Hindus in a train compartment. The then political party that was governing the state during the time of the riots and which had encouraged this massacre was later re-elected to power by the Hindu majority as a thank-you gift for teaching a good lesson to those Muslims.

It was like Adolf Hitler being re-elected after the Final Solution by the jubilant Aryan Germans.

The Gujarat government, which markets itself as the icon of Hindu pride, had even went so far as to price Muslim lives below those of Hindus, offering $2,050 in state compensation for Muslims killed but doubling that amount for those 58 Hindus.

Besides, the government of that state continues to adopt aggressive postures to deny justice to the Muslim victims of the riot.

If these are not good reasons for the Islamists terrorist to increase their rank and numbers, then what else could be?

India Shies Away

Following the London subway blasts, the British authorities there prepared a comprehensive study titled Report of the Official Account of Bombings in London on 7 July to find out the conditions and causes which prompted otherwise decent middle-class young Muslim men to carry out terrorist attacks. The effort was not to serve an excuse for the Muslims but to identify the areas that create a breeding ground for such acts.

However India doesn’t want this kind of introspection. Any public personality who tries to rationalize the possibility of violent discrimination against Muslims as a cause for the induction of Muslim men among the Jehadi terrorist groups is instantly hooted as pseudo-seculars, Muslim-appeasing and unpatriotic citizens who are bent on destroying the country's fair name.

It is as if the country doesn’t want to remind itself that its earlier sins could come back to haunt its soul.

Strictly For Dummies – A Chemical Formula for Detecting Terrorism

So, according to the accepted wisdom in India, a train blast is always a terrorist attack. But the killing of innocent people by swords and tridents is not. The Hindu massacring of the Muslims is merely a communal riot, an internal problem. But the Muslim blasting of Hindus is of course one more instance of international terrorism.

Problems simplified.

But the Accepted Wisdom is turning to Reality; Our Muslims are Changing…Now

Indian columnists always boasted that their Muslims are decent and civilized. They do not associate themselves with Al Qaeda. They were not in the 9/11 hijack team. They were never a part of the Talibani barbarians. They were not terrorists.

The country could treat them like a doormat but they would still be tame and loyal like the ugly luckless wife of a philandering man who has nowhere to go.

However, the world is changing, and so are our Muslims. Pakistan could be blamed for every terrorist act taking place in Indian cities but it so happens that educated, English-speaking, computer-literate, Muslim men are nowadays planting the bombs and setting the timers in trains and buses. And they are home-grown Indians. And no, they have never traveled to Pakistan or Afghanistan for indoctrination.

India itself suffices.

The Coming Scare

Indian Muslims have begun to pay attention to bin Laden broadcasts in Al Jazeera. They think he makes sense when he rants about injustice and powerlessness and arrogance of the empires. They look around and they nod their heads understandingly. Muslim children are being killed. Yes. Islam is in danger. Yes. Muslims are the victims. Oh, yes. The roots of the rage are growing right under the bloodied soil of this nation. How True.

Indian passport is destined to be a problem in the airports of the western world. Very soon.


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About Mayank Austen Soofi

  • I think a bit of balanced thinking is needed to figure out the situation. The fact is that the Indians as a “nation” have been oppressed for long; and now somehow need to oppress someone to reclaim their “pride”. In a fractured society, the tendency is always to turn on the “other guy” and in case of India, the revivalists have found a convenient scapegoat in Muslims. Of course, any ordinary Hindu would agree with the statement that all Muslims are not terrorists. But what would you do about the instruments of terror that the state wields? They need a scapegoat too!!!

  • nugget

    I’m more worried about my IT job than being bombed.

  • Your IT job is being outsourced to Bangalore. What the hell are ompanies like HP, AOL and CitiCorp going to do when the terrorists firebomb the telephone support centers? Damn, does this mean that Arabians are outsourcing terrorism to India, now?

  • Les Slater

    “All Muslims are not Terrorists, but all Terrorists are Muslims”

    You jest?

    Just as a small sample: There are terrorist training camps in South Florida protected by the U.S. and state governments. There are known terrorists that are not only protected but glorified.

    The U.S. has a history of training terrorists. There has been the unearthing of terror training manuals penned by U.S. agencies.

    I suspect none of these terrorists are Muslim.

  • Raj

    The writer is well known as a sympathiser of Islamic fundametalism on desicritics.org. He is also gay.

    But to the condescending Americans here, tell me, why do you categorise Islamic fundamentalists who wage a jihad on USA or the West as ‘terrorists’ and then the same Islamic fanatics seek to wage jihad on India, you think they are just ‘oppressed’ ?

  • Raj

    Dr.Harangue… if you hold an opinion poll among the muslims of the world and ask them to list their biggest ‘opressors’, I would imagine that India would be distant 4th or 5th on a list, headed by US and Israel.

    So much for your theory.

  • But to the condescending Americans here, tell me, why do you categorise Islamic fundamentalists who wage a jihad on USA or the West as ‘terrorists’ and then the same Islamic fanatics seek to wage jihad on India, you think they are just ‘oppressed’ ?

    You can be oppressed and not resort to terrorism. In fact, it is the oppression which creates an environment where terrorists can most easily be recruited. There’s no contradiction between the presence of oppression and the presense of terrorism in a society.


  • Raj

    David Nalle…the concept of ‘oppression’ is subjective. Indian muslims enjoy equal rights and opportunities as hindus in India. Same as American muslims in US , Eupean muslims in Europe. And yet, muslims all over the globe claim to be ‘oppressed’ by these countries.

    For most muslims worldwide, including those in US and also many Indian muslims, USA is seen as ‘The Great Satan’. So for Indian muslims the very fact that the Indian government seeks to better its relations with the ‘The Great Satan’ , is reason enough to claim ‘oppression’ and vow unending revenge against the Indian nation.

    Why are many UK muslims supporters of Jihad against Britain ? Are they ‘oppressed’ too ?

    But really – this ‘oppression’ theory is a no more than a convenient excuse. Muslims will never run out of excuses to wage war against the infidels, whether they are hindu, christian , atheist or jew. Because waging jihad against the infidels who refuse to bow down to allah is pretty much the essence of Islam.

    Sooner the non-muslim world recognises this, the better. We can only fight the menace of terrorist Islam together.

  • Mayank is a [Personal insult deleted] infidel propogandist just like Adam Ash and Co.

    They have virtually specialised in masochism and blaming their own people for all the ills when it is very clear that the boot is on the other foot.

    How do muslims who rule 55 countries across the world, have substantial presence in atleast another 50-60 and number nearly 1/5th of humanity claim to be oppressed by Jews less than 0.01% of world population.

    plus they also claim to be oppressed by anyone who doesn’t let them cut, slash and stab the infidels at will. They are imperialists of the first degree like the Romans, Alexander, persians, british, french, russians, chinese or mongols before them.

    All of the above fell from the pedestal of power in time. The only difference is they did not impose a rigid faith on their conquered peoples and hence when they fell the native people returned back to their native ways. But islamic imperialism left behind a delusional native population who tore off from their native faiths came to recognise themselves with their erstwhile oppressors. If ever there was any example of “collective stockholm syndrome” the peoples of the islamic world will qualify.

    I hope the Great Martian conqueror Zokaris is taking notes. Once he invades Earth and enslaves the human race he should NOT stick to just looting and collecting tribute. He should impose the Martian religion of Triponosis on his new found subjects and destroy all evidence of indigenous human religions so that the earthlings from then on end up looking upto the Martians as their spiritual guides and remain mental slaves of the martians for eternity

  • There are many arguments about the origins of Islamic extremism, which I concede is violent to a considerable extent. However, I do not wish to get bogged down into all sorts of historical narratives. I’m not an apologist for the violent verses of Koran or Bible or Ramayana. Neither have I wished to be. But I’m very clear about certain specific things: I love my country. In my land lots of my people are killed because they belong to this religion or that. I do not like this. If the murderers, who kill in the name of their gods – be it Allah or Krishna or Christ, are not punished, I feel restless, guilty and angry. You see, I do not like injustice. I respect life. I respect my fellow human beings, Hindu or Muslim not being my concern.

  • Raj

    The biggest problem I have with Mayank ‘Austen’ is his dishonesty.

    “I’m not an apologist for the violent verses of Koran or Bible or Ramayana.”

    Why make an equivalence between a murderous violent cult like Islam with a religion like hinduism ?

    Is the Ramayana an equivalent of either the Koran or the Bible ? Is there a rule that says a hindu must obey whatever is written in the Ramayana, or else he become less of a hindu ? Indeed is there any book of laws (a la Koran) a hindu is supposed to adhere to ? No ? Then why this equivalence, between Ramayana and the Koran, especially when there are verses in Koran that expect the faithful to murder those infidels who do not follow bow down to their allah ? Ramayana’s equivalent is Homer’s Ulyssis and Shakepeare’s Othello, not the Koran.

    “If the murderers, who kill in the name of their gods – be it Allah or Krishna or Christ, are not punished, I feel restless, guilty and angry.”.

    Muslims do indeed kill in the name of Allah. Historically millions have been killed by muslims in the name of Allah, including around 3500 on that fateful day 9-11-2001. They are expected to do so by their religion. When have hindus killed in the name of Krishna ? Infact there isn’t even one incident of a hindu killing in the name of Krishna. A hindu may kill for revenge, to avenge the death of a fellow hindu. Nothing to do with either his God or his religion. Just a very human need for revenge……. but it is only a muslim who kills in the name of his Allah. Because his religion tells him to.

  • Les Slater

    Raj #11

    “but it is only a muslim who kills in the name of his Allah.”

    That’s obviously true, but does not exclude a Christian or Jew killing in the name of God.

    “Because his religion tells him to.”

    It’s not really a religious issue. It has much more to do with politics. Politicians lean on their holy books to justify whatever happens to be their current necessity.

    Just think, there is a whole murderous state whose justification boils down to prophesies from the Torah.

  • That’s a very well-written piece.

  • nugget

    Silas: That means I get my job back! *WIRING FUNDS TO TERRORIST CELLS IN/AROUND BANGALORE*

  • Mayank’s [Edited] language is very deceptive for someone who is not familiar with India or Hinduism or Eastern non-abrahamanic religious traditions.

    Hindu faith has its issues. For example the caste system which is grounded in its scriptures from manusmriti onwards.It is a very Hindu problem. Now there is no way u can compare the Hindu caste system with the islamic or christian or Buddhist sect systems. There is nothing in those scriptures which asks its followers to divide them into sects isn’t it?

    Similarly in the Abrahamanic faiths like judaism, christianity and islam there is a concept of Holy war. That is going to war for the sake of God. There is no comparable concept in Hinduism or any other eastern religious traditions.

    Each religion has its own specific issues, drawbacks, history etc… and as far as i can tell the Eastern faiths like Hinduism, buddhism, sikhism, jainism, shintoism, confucianism or any other animistic faiths etc… DO NOT have a concept of HOly War.

    saying otherwise smacks of either of ignorance or deliberate distortion.

  • Apollo, you have a point but different people have different perspectives and viewpoints. You feel Hidnuism never carried out a holy war. Perhaps you are right. Perhaps you are not. What happened in the great war of Mahabharat? Was it just about fighting for a piece of land? Did not Krishna say that we are fighting for Dharma? So many people were killed in Mahabharata…. What happened in the Lankan war of Ramayana? Lord Ram led a war merely to get back his wife from Ravana? Ravana – whom we call a ‘Rakshasa’ or a ‘Demon’. It is our version of narrative. May be lankans do not think Ravana as a demon..who knows….but yes in Hinduism, most of its followers do not imbibe values from these violent episodes. We are attracted to other aspects of the story: like obedience to one’s parents, love for one’s partner, harmony between brothers, etc.

    My assertion is that there are instances of violence in every religion. We just can not pinpoint on Koran. But I concede that Muslims seem eager to lift inspiration from their more violent verses, rather than the loving ones.

    Having said that, and confessing that Islam has a problem, it still do not give us a right to kill innocent Muslims just because they are Muslims. And it is extremely unholy to refuse justice, later. You see the people who are killed are basically our people only…..

  • Sanjay

    Mayank, the Mahabharata and Ramayana were mythological wars, just like the Iliad from Greek mythology or Lord of the Rings. Are you going to indict Tolkein for orc genocide next?

    According to you, George Lucas should be condemned for his vilification of Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine. Perhaps Lucas should be put on trial for hate crimes, in your opinion.

    Mayank, do you have a problem differentiating mythology from reality? Take your lithium, man.

  • Some more (updated) facts on Indian Muslims from the latest 2001 Census of India*

    1. 44% fewer Muslim students complete senior school compared to non-Muslims.
    2. Only one in 101 Muslim women is a graduate vs. one out of 37 non-Muslim women.
    3. Among the All-India literacy level, only 55% Muslim men are literate vs. 64.5% Non-Muslim men; while only 40.6% Muslim women are literate vs. 45.9 Non-Muslim women.
    4. Many more Muslims ‘drop out’ of high schools than all other religious communities.

    My comment: This country need to do something urgently to improve these alarming figures.

    * These figures were published in the August 14, 2006 issue of the India Today magazine.

  • James Choate

    As an American journalist who has lived for a couple of years in India, I find this well-written article very much in sync with the present Hindu-Muslim conflict going on in that wonderful but complicated country.

  • mayank u cannot compare Myths and legends to actual wars. Ramayana and mahabarata is equivalent to Homer’s illiad and odyssey. have u seen any westerner go to war quoting the illiad?

  • james #19

    2 years in India and u declare urself as a great authority on Indian social conditions.

    Is this the standard of American journalism?

    looks like just like the example in Qana and Jenin u american journalists have a tendency to be led along by ur native media handlers.

    I invite u to return to India and actually do some hard journalism and not propoganda.

  • gazelle

    Raj and Apollo, are you card carrying members of RSS or what?

    you exemplify perfectly one way to justify the persecution of a minority – muslims in this case. others are of course christians and the lower castes.

  • James #19:

    You are soo short-sighted. Any guy(even a good sociologist) would need atleast some 18-20 years in India to figure out Hindu-Muslim eco-system in India.

    Please be sure of what u are saying before complimenting such a myopic article.

    Just for peoples reference this is my opinion on the topic posted on desicitics.org(sister site of this site):

    Indian Muslims have begun to pay attention to bin Laden broadcasts in Al Jazeera. They think he makes sense when he rants about injustice and powerlessness and arrogance of the empires.

    Is this the new muslim appeasers slogan?
    something that goes like :”Ohh God…. if we dont appease them they will hear to OBL and start nodding their heads. So lets give them something more than we already do.”

    What will happen when we give them more:(like the Haj subsidy et al) U guessed it rite! they will ask for even more… In general people do not like to work for what they get.. but they can ask for all what they want… and with people like you around they would get that too.. albeit at the cost of the reminder of the population.. but who cares… all u want is for them not to look at each other and nod their heads when their Fuhrer OBL speaks!!!!

    This is the same thing which our impotent, buttheaded, clowns called politicians think….. Unfortunately i think you belong to the same class.

    As i always say… Unite the nation, dont divide it. Our politicians have successfully divided the natiton in terms of mystic philosophies(aka religion).

    No country can unite properly and prosper unless the people share atleast many of the philosophical values on which the nation was founded(the constitution). Civil war/riots/violence etc follows when there are contradictory and often violent philosophies that govern the people (instead of being governed by theconstituition of the nation). So if u are constituitional Mr.Soof, you would have never viewed this problems along the fractured lines of religion. This article therefore is Unconstitutional(communal), immature and scare-mongering. With all the above factors excused it is one-sided colored glass view of reality!

    if a community of people are not ready to follow the set secular laws of the land and want themselves to be governed by their communities themselves in ALL aspects (i.e. they are a nation in themselves), they are better off ghettoised and marginalized!

    U might need a thick skin to read what i have said… but i also think u also need a good brain to grasp the meaning(which i doubt u would)


  • Raj

    Gazelle…no.. I am not an RSS member. But like 40-45% of India’s population, I support BJP, which is the political wing of the RSS.

    And please, before you let your imagination run riot and carry on with your demonisation of RSS/BJP……… RSS/BJP do not persecute lower castes. Infact lower castes are pretty much part of RSS/BJP. The biggest and most popular hindu leader in India, who is hated by the fanatic muslims and leftists, is a lower caste hindu – Narendra Modi. I am sure you have heard of him.

    Talking of muslims being a ‘persecuted minority’ in India, are muslims a ‘persecuted minority’ in UK as well ? Why is it then many UK muslims have declared Jihad on Britain ?

    What about USA ? Does USA persecuate its muslims ? Why the jihad on USA ? Why do muslims hate US so much ?

    We all know the answers. Nobody is fooled anymore.

  • Raj

    James Choate – what ? 2 years in India and feel qualified enough to pass judgement on us natives ? [Edited]

  • Ramayana is a myth and legend, Apollo? An equivalent to Illiyad of the western civilization??

    Hey the legend of Lord Rama came out from Ramayana. Babri mosque in Ayodhya was believed to be built by Muslims on the ruins of a Rama temple, where Lord Rama was supposed to be born. Many of us Hidnus destroyed that mosque to salvage our religion’s pride. This destruction of a mosque resulted in the most horrific Hindu-Muslim riots in the history of India. Thousands of Indians were killed. One of the major causes of Hindu-Muslim conflict derives from this tale of Rama only which you dismisses as a mere piece of literature.

  • gazelle #22

    Well let me answer u r question this way.

    If i ever throw a book at u. it will not be a Bhagvadgita or any other religious scriptures
    but books such as
    1) Electrical sciences by Mc-Graw Hill or
    2) Unix network programming by Richard stevens or
    3) 2001: A space odyssey

    Hope that answers ur questions. 🙂

  • Mayank #26

    Have u read the ramayana or the illiad.

    Why did Lord Rama go to war against Lanka? and
    Why did the Greeks go to war against Troy?

    Ans – they were provoked by a hostile action of the enemy.

    SO can u see the idiocy in ur logic by now? if u haven’t i feel sorry for u.

  • kishore

    I still dont understand why the world is not able to get the simple point that Pakistan’s ISI has generated these terrorists, for subversive activities, and whatever be the justifications, it is immaterial. ISI is even more powerful and autonomous than CIA, it is even more secretive. Only we intellectual people keep thinking about “root Causes”, “Atrocities”, “Injustices” whereas it is very well known that in USA, there is none, except in a few occassional separate incidents, in UK, there are hardly any and in India, it happens to every one every time. So there are no “Root Causes”, “Atrocities”, or “injustices”, it is a simple formula of taking the revenge and showing the subversive capabilities of ISI of Pakistan.

  • pleasexcusetheinteruption12

    Well I guess there is no hope for the Muslims. All they want to do is kill us. Lets stop procrastinating and just kill them all off now. Then all are problems will be gone. Yipee!

  • thampuran

    Indian president is a musalman, top film stars are muslims, richest man is a muslim. but majority of muslims are poverty stricken…….. thus goes mayanks observation. if you are from poverty community are you legally permitted to blast bombs on all and sundry? twin towers in america was destroyed beacause of poverty stricken muslims? no for other reason. bombs exploded in british rail stations because of poor muslims? no for other reason. years back bombay blasts occured killing thousands because of babri masjid. last time mumbai blasts happened for what? for aazaad kashmir? or for some other reasons? to violence crowded minds reasons will come all the time. one or other. justifying violence is strange because every side will have justifications to do violent acts. also what is the position of hindus in pakistan? or in bangladesh? are they leading a happy life ther?

  • Nancy

    Groups who fancy themselves oppressed or disadvantaged have gotten into the bad habit of blaming everyone & everything else except themselves for their situation. If Muslims want to get on in the world, first they have to stop sending their kids to the primitive madrissas & enroll them in REAL schools. Face it: no one is going to pay anyone big bucks for being able to spout the Koran and nothing else. Like it or not, if they want to succeed, they’ve got to learn how to get along by the rules of the rest of the world, & not just by the rules of their own particular cultural ghettos. The ONLY ones responsible for their future successes of failures are the Muslims themselves; if they aren’t willing to join the 21st century, they’re going to remain in poverty in the 8th.

  • Well said Nancy #32. exactly my views

  • kishore

    I still think the root cause is not yet understood, the root cause is not Poverty, it is not Madrassas, it is not Islam either. The root cause is the ISI of Pakistan, as they are taking the revenge against USA for having used it for Afghan War in 80’s and left it once they achieved their goals. They are the people who are educating the Osama Bin Laden, otherwise, how can a Cave Man know about USA, the WTC, or Pentagon, They are using OBL as a surrogate. ISI is protecting him, They are the people who are selling the Nuclear Technology to the Muslim world and all those who have reason to hate USA. No wonder if they use some other Osama to make a Nuclear 9/11 in USA homeland. They have every reason to do the subversion, with prompt denials. They are the culprits, not Muslims, not Madrassas, not the “Injustices” not the “Atrocities” not the “Islam”. Westerners can’t understand as they are not informed by CIA. CIA knows what ISI is capable of doing. That is why they are asking Bush to give some F-16’s, some 5 Billion $’s etc., as a ransom, for checking the Pakistani ISI. It is all a secret game.ISI is the most admirable “intelligence Agency” of the world. You will never know the true reason, untill you understand their game plan. Subversion always helps, whether it is CIA or ISI or KGB or Mossad or Iranian Intelligence or MI

  • Nancy

    The madrissahs don’t help. It would be the same for schools of any other religion: kids who went to a school that only taught them the Christian bible (and there are a few of those around) aren’t going to get by very well in the modern world, either, unless they incorporate as well a good, broad platform of “regular” classes in math, science, literature, etc. … and frankly, most madrissahs are piss-poor, primitive affairs, indeed. They have a bad rep for a reason, in that they are taught by near-illiterates, and they only teach one subject, and that (usually) very badly, with little or no understanding of the theology involved, etc.

    American blacks are in the same situation: in order to further themselves, as Bill Cosby recently pointed out: they’ve got to stop blaming everybody else & buckle down to ensuring their kids go to schools and LEARN for all they’re worth; and they may need to fight for decent schools as well, while they’re at it, but until they themselves make an effort, nothing is going to happen. No one can sit around and have someone come along and pour knowledge into your head. You & only you are responsible for your success or failure, in that regard. I’ve noticed that throughout the world, those that really, Really, REALLY want an education manage to get one, even if they have no paper, no books, no schools – like Abe Lincoln or Washington Carver.

    At any rate, as I said in the earlier posting, those that won’t join the 21st century are condemned to remain in the 8th. It’s up to them, not the rest of the world.

  • Nancy

    The root cause is very understood: poverty stems from ignorance. Sometimes from laziness or sheer bad luck, but most often from ignorance: no one is going to give a good job to someone who is functionally illiterate. If you want to make a life in today’s world, you MUST know more than how to parrot Koranic (or bible) verses. Madrissahs could be decent schools, IF they instituted curriculums such as those of yeshivas or most christian schools, all of which teach secular subjects as well as strictly religious items…but they won’t, thanks to the ignorance of the virtual illiterates who teach in them, and the thirst for power over their congregations that characterize the vast majority of the imams, most of whom are not too much more educated (except in violence & muslim bigotry), either. I understand there are a few – a very few – madrissahs in Egypt that are cream of the crop in that they have the religious classes, but they also have a rigorous secular curriculum, and turn out students capable of succeeding anywhere, in any capacity. But most madrissahs are a far cry from that, and willfully so, more’s the pity, because in a sense they are their students’ worst enemies.

    In any event, success or failure still lies with muslims themselves, not with the rest of the world. It’s up to them to come up to snuff; if they don’t, or won’t, or can’t … don’t blame everyone else. Again, if you won’t join the 21st century, you’re condemned to live in the 8th.

  • SwayaM

    “Sadly, these secular parties have done nothing to lift Muslims from their pothole of primitive madrasa education and abject poverty. They treat Muslims as mere vote banks.”
    – Muslims already enjoy so many privileges as members of a minority community – if they can’t lift themselves out of primitive madrasa education and abject poverty unlike other minority communities, they need to introspect – the special treatment reinforces the tendencies of their religion that keep them backward. If Hindus enjoyed the same priveleges in the spirit of secularism, they would be marrying multiple partners, burning their widows, getting their kids married at 12, and basically doing all that would keep them backward and poor too.

    “If you are a Muslim, no matter how much money you have, you will find it difficult to rent a flat in any respectable middle-class locality. A Muslim in an otherwise-cosmopolitan Mumbai is bound to end up in a ghetto. The story repeats itself in cities like Delhi, too.”
    – Again subjective! I personally know of several well to do muslims living in the poshest areas of delhi and mumbai. And I am not even taking of Shahrukh Khan, Amir Khan, Salman Khan and several of the who’s who of Bollywood, all muslims. As for those who live in ghettos, it is a human tendency to stick with similar neighbors. It happens not just between hindus and muslims but among hindus and muslims themselves too. Bengalis will stick together, sunnis will stick together. Even here, in the land of the free, whites will stick together and so will blacks…

    “Muslims are generally deemed by a majority of Hindus as minorities in bigoted nations are usually considered to be: unclean, uneducated, and unpatriotic. But if anyone in the community tries to get himself out from this cliché, he is quickly dumped back to his old place.”
    – Again subjective! I wonder how the Shahrukh Khans, Dilip Kumars, Saira Banos, Madhubalas, Abul Kalam Azads, Sania Mirzas, Azharuddins and the list is endless….. made it to the pinnacle of success.

    Indian spirit, if vaporized down to its essence, consists of four essentials: Politics, Bollywood, cricket and Hindu-Muslim riots. – what the heck? are you comparing riots to past-times?

    Could you find no better source than the magazine which cannot even be relied to be accurate about its own country, USA?

    Or maybe the worst tragedy to have befallen India was its partition? So that the Muslims of undivided India could have their own homeland, India paid with its own blood and land? (A land in which lived a majority of Hindus, who had lived here forever, the cradle of their faith and the land of their ancestors as old as human civilization had to give up a part of their holy land.) And still, the remaining part of India remained, true to the tenets of the secularism of Hinduism, a secular nation. When in all fairness, it could have become a Hindu country.

    Lesson of the story should be: In India, you can grant Muslims all the privileges that are not granted to the Hindus and they can rise to the highest position as the country’s President. But that is not enough, because if they are poor and religious and in the spirit of their muslim brotherhood kill the kafirs, that is okay too. After all, it is their religious duty to so. And if they are poor, it is the govt’s fault, stupid!

    Yes the British authorities introspected and found what we in India have know all along. And there is nothing that the rest of us or the govts of India, or for that matter Britain can do about it. The introspection has to come from among Muslims themselves. There are a lot of poor, illiterate people of all faiths in this world but not all resort to terrorism.

    Nobody doubts that Indian Muslims are capable of tapping into the global mulsim terrorist network if they want to and vice versa. Hell, when its happening in Europe and America, of course it can happen in India, India is much harder to police.

    Oh, and you just claimed that it is not just poverty and illiteracy that is drawing the Indian Muslims to terrorism!

  • gazelle

    #27 apollo

    I think what you will throw at me will be the The Constitution of India along with a trishul. although i wont mind some ramanujam.


  • gazelle

    #29 kishore

    so finally you are suggesting the “root cause” is isi. too simplistic. isi may be active in places, like raw is, but there are huge sociological/polical problems which are not caused or explained by isi.


  • gazelle #38

    looks like the book hit u very hard on the head. ur hallucinating already 😉

  • kishore

    the Intelligence Agencies operate like this. “There is a genuine cause to be outraged, such as the Killing of a Muslim or Some Event which has created a huge amount of shock, such as “Babri Masjid Demolition” etc., There could be a number of reasons you can tell that justifies such act, as there was no Muslim Prayers in that Masjid, there was no legal right etc, and there are number of reasons for the opposite party to feel intimidated, but ordinary people can’t do anything about it.

    Those are called as Fault lines. Every nation has faultlines, such as in US, the Whites say, the African Americans should change their ways, and the African Americans feel that they are being targeted, That is also a fault-line, but nobody is exploiting it except ISI of Pakistan, they are converting them into Muslims first, then they will put the seeds of Distrust, then only the they will give them Small Arms, or perhaps, portable Radiological Devices etc., to attack the citizen of that Country.

    Ordinary people like you and me, can only think, and suggest what the people should do, we are also a part of the Faultline. We cannot do anything about it. The thinking beyond Faultline for Subversive activities is teh job of the Intelligence community. That is what ISI is very good at, even better than CIA.

    They do deception, the ordinary people will get endless arguments for what the other party should do, for example, there were a number of people in the west as recently as in ’90s, who were telling that Indian Population Explosion is bad for the country. But the same people are saying now, that Indian Demography is very favourable for its Economic growth. There was a fault-line, but the people defeated it. Likewise, the Terrorists are also going to win ultimately. it may take 2 decades or so, before they could start getting the results. but with their determination, they will ultimately win.

    You can defeat their designs, only when you give them Punishment. But appeasing with F-16’s, 5 Billion $’s etc., is only going to make them more bold., That was what India did to the Pakistan, Appeasing.

    Here comes the leadership, to take the pivotal Role, and show of Bravery, and determination, For example, PV Narasimha Rao, defeated Punjab Terrorism from its roots not because of Appeasing, but because the people like “Sarabjit Singh” who are the true son’s of India, who have also retaliated with tit-for-tat Terrorism against Pakistan, Then entire Sikh Terrorism was totally eradicated, Again the reason for success is not because of Mr.KPS Gill who had suppressed the Terrorists with Iron Hand, though he did a good job by doing it great. But it is the Leadership at the Highest Point which has made this possible.

    Similarly, If we have determination to root out Terrorism, we have to resort to Terrorism against Pakistan and its Society.

    But I doubt whether the Leadership of Bush who calls Musharraff (Who is the root cause of all the evil the world is watching today) his buddy. Also I doubt the PM of India, with limited powers and Pusillanimity, could give the leadership that India badly needs, The ordinary people are of no use, but can only generate huge debates, and no action is possible, no amount of Public pressure could put any Leader to mend his ways and show some leadership, the leadership has to come to them, naturally. What india needs is a strong leadership, what USA needs is a strong leadership.

  • Gopal

    India is not a place dictated by Hindus or Hindu religion.It is a very competitive place where your children need to study for atleast 10 to 14 hours a day ( school + tuition) to get admission to Graduate and Professionla courses. Parents have to rellay scrounge and budget for their children’s success. After passing the exams youths struggle and compete to get jobs and promotion. There is very little room for complacency. It is hard life for the successfull to succeed and to reamin successful.
    Question: How did the successful muslims become successful0 Doctors, presidents, busnessmen, actors, traders and all those who are rich and powerful.

    Question: Why are there so many poor Hindus ?
    Question : In Kerala ( a state of India with 4 million people) hindus/Muslims / Christians are equal- 33 % each. Kerala has 100% literacy rate.
    Why ?

    Situation: If Joseph kills John – it is murder.
    Situation: If Ram kills Raghav it is murder.
    Situation: If Rehman kills Anis- it is murder.
    Situation: If Ram kills Iqbal- it is religious hatred.

    Question: would any Muslims accept a Hindu or Christian son(daughter) in alw and allow them to practice their religion and not force them to convert !!

    Options: Jinnah has been kind to Indinas- he took majority Muslims to Pakistan. Why did he leave his grandson behind !! ( I admire his vision).

  • tum india walay kutay ho tum begairat ho

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