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Democratic Greed Creates Opportunities for Bush

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Today President Bush demonstrated that the domination of both houses of Congress by the Democrats creates a real opportunity for him to look more effective than he has in years, advance his image in the eyes of the public, and perhaps even assure some sort of positive legacy, simply by vetoing the right bills.

President Bush vetoed the $606 billion domestic spending bill which contained over 2,200 personal earmarks for Congressional pet-projects which were pure pork, as identified by laid out several key reasons for doing so.

  • The bill includes $22 billion in spending above what Bush requested for 2008, and even more unnecessary spending in the next 4 years adding up to a total of $205 billion in extra discretionary spending mostly on earmark projects. The rate of increase in spending is three times the rate of growth of the economy.
  • The bill fails to do anything to address to ballooning costs of Social Security, Medicare and other entitlements. President Bush had asked for some simple reform measures which Congress made no effort to even consider.
  • The bill would allow the President's tax reforms to expire, resulting in "the largest tax increase in history," which would be devastating for the economy and for American citizens, and would likely reduce government revenues in the resulting recession.

If the Democrats had half a brain among them, they would have made an effort to keep pork junkies like Chuck Schumer (D-NY), David Obey (D-WI), and Robert Byrd (D-WV) — who loaded this bill with earmarks — under control at least for a year or two. That would have given them an opportunity to play the role of protectors of the public welfare and put the blame for both deficits and cuts in services on Bush. But after 6 years out of power, the greed buildup was too much for them to control and they went hog wild.

Despite excessive war spending, President Bush has actually been pretty successful in keeping domestic spending under control and in producing a strong economy and increasing government revenues through his tax cuts. One result is that he is actually ahead of schedule on his plan to gradually balance the budget and put government spending back on a responsible track. His plan had the budget balanced by 2012 or possibly sooner. So far he has generally exceeded his deficit reduction goals and reached target deficit reduction levels ahead of schedule. The extra spending included in this budget would have pushed back balancing the budget by at least two years and the damage done by the tax increase might push it back indefinitely.

Unfortunately, the votes on this bloated budget were pretty close to the number needed to override a veto in both the House and Senate, so it may return with all the pork and get passed despite the veto. But it's likely all good for Bush, because it creates for him the enviable position of being able to present himelf as the defender of fiscal responsibility and lets him put all the blame for future deficits on the spendthrift Democrats, who are certainly somewhat guilty for climbing on the porkwagon, but who are hardly to blame for all the money sunk into the Iraq War and past years of excessive Republican spending, which adds into the total budgetary mess Bush may well get away with laying at their feet.

At the end of this struggle it's going to be pretty easy to make the argument that the Democrats were totally fiscally irresponsible, went wild for pork, and decided to pay for it by raising taxes and wrecking the economy. It may not be the whole truth, but it's going to be a believable scenario and the Democrats have brought it on themselves. If you're not a George W. Bush fan, you should be pretty angry that simple greed has led them to play into his hands like this.

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About Dave Nalle

Dave Nalle is Executive Director of the Texas Liberty Foundation, Chairman of the Center for Foreign and Defense Policy, South Central Regional Director for the Republican Liberty Caucus and an advisory board member at the Coalition to Reduce Spending. He was Texas State Director for the Gary Johnson Presidential campaign, an adviser to the Ted Cruz senatorial campaign, Communications Director for the Travis County Republican Party and National Chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus. He has also consulted on many political campaigns, specializing in messaging. Before focusing on political activism, he owned or was a partner in several businesses in the publishing industry and taught college-level history for 20 years.
  • Franco


    A little on the scary side when you add all this to the major housing bust that is going to keep effecting the economy negitivly.

    What kind of a tax increase are we looking at?

  • troll

    Dave – I don’t think any of them know any other way to do politics…asking them to restrain spending it’s kind of like asking a lawyer to seek justice

  • and the Apologist shills for the Administration once again…

    hope you get paid well for all the political fellatio


  • troll

    gonzo – I think that Dave comes up with his machiavellian machinations free of charge

  • i get it…so he’s not a whore, just a groupie

    fair enough, i guess…

    and credit where it’s due…“If the Democrats had half a brain among them, they would have made an effort to keep pork junkies like Chuck Schumer (D-NY), David Obey (D-WI), and Robert Byrd (D-WV) — who loaded this bill with earmarks — under control at least for a year or two.” – is perfectly politically accurate…

    one would Hope that such proper Restraint would be enforced in perpetuity…but this crop of DLC stooges followed in the footsteps of the last 6 years of RNC stooges, i do think the numbers show that they demonstrated a bit more restraint than the last batch tho…but given enough time, they would most likely behave just as badly

    keep an Eye on them, and toss them out on a regular basis, imo….attempting to keep one gang or the other in Power rather than housecleaning only aids and abets those who abuse said Power


  • troll

    you mean toss them out the airlock – ?

  • if required, troll…depends on the infraction…eh?

    so much depends on the state of mind now, doesn’t it?


  • Clavos

    Did anyone consider the possibility that the dems deliberately loaded the legislation with pork, because:

    It was a win-win: if Bush doesn’t veto, they’re heroes for bringin’ the bacon back home, and if (as he did) he does, it’s another black mark against those scurrilous repubs (during an election race), who don’t want the people to have anything.

    Just askin’…

  • Hmmm…

    The bill described by Dave in his bulletpoints reads conspicuously like a bill from the pre-2006 Congress.

    Plus ca change…

  • Clavos

    You do link some cool videos, gonzo.

    A most unusual musician. I especially like the “trumpet” with his lips.

    See the length of the fingernails on his right hand?

  • and the Apologist shills for the Administration once again…

    Such shilling as:

    “Democrats…who are hardly to blame for all the money sunk into the Iraq War and past years of excessive Republican spending”

    The article is hard on both sides and you, as usual, are just trying to spin it in a self-serving way.

    hope you get paid well for all the political fellatio

    Not a cent, but at least I can write what I do with a clear conscience.


  • @ #8 – a distinct possibility, but much more effective if there is minimal/no pork vis a vis leading up Nov 08

    Doc D sez – “The bill described by Dave in his bulletpoints reads conspicuously like a bill from the pre-2006 Congress.”

    Quoted for Truth

    both observation i mention here are similar to what i was getting at previously… the good thing about it is that it’s a bit less pork than previously, and we now get some oversight rather than rubberstamping

    @ #10 – glad you enjoyed it, and yeah..like Kaki King, many of these stylists use the nails of their right hands like fingerpicks…

    i do try and have some depth in my Choices, but sometimes it’s just for a Pun…it keeps me searching

    know what i mean…?



  • Maurice®

    Great points, Dave. I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that Bush could ever be made to look good…..

    It is nice that he can veto a bloated bill. I don’t think that will fix his legacy.

    At the risk of copying gonzo:

    you can’t hold no groove… if you got no pocket

  • Clavos

    Ay Mr. Wooten, of the Flecktones!

    Hell of a bass!

  • Kaki King is really interesting. Check out cellist Jami Sieber.


  • oh…so you want cello shots do ya?



  • It was a win-win: if Bush doesn’t veto, they’re heroes for bringin’ the bacon back home, and if (as he did) he does, it’s another black mark against those scurrilous repubs (during an election race), who don’t want the people to have anything.

    I’m operating on the theory that at this point enough people realize that pork is bad that they can see beyond the superficial benefits of a few earmarks for their states. If most people are still snowed by a little flashy spending, then there’s really not much hope, is there.


  • Maurice®

    Dave #17

    Unfortunately many people still love the pork. Here in Idaho, Larry (I am not gay!) Craig was always bragging about the pork he was bringing in for Mt Home Air Force Base. Many people supported him and were happy to have the Federal dollars come to Idaho.

  • Clavos

    Unfortunately, Dave, I think the fact that the legislation you mention in the article was so loaded up with it proves that pork is still the principal diet of both the politicians and the rubes who send them to Washington.

  • troll

    is it not legitimate to view a major part of national politics as a scramble for limited resources and that maximizing pork is a good thing – a score card for the power brokers – ?

    American government and its ‘rule of law’ is based on the assumption that adversarial and competitive interaction driven by a narrow interpretation of ‘self-interest’ will yield the best possible result over all in the long run

    …so stop yer bitchin’

  • I won’t attempt to defend earmarks, although at least they are now clearly labeled as such, with the legislator’s name attached to each one. And the Dems have cut the recent GOP level of earmarks approximately in half, contrary to their porky reputation.

    But the vast majority of the increased spending in the vetoed bill does not consist of earmarks anyway. It is for social services programs, and is related to stated goals of the Pelosi congress.

    From the Baltimore Sun:
    …lawmakers rejected proposed cuts that the White House wanted in healthcare access, education, medical research, job training and grants to alleviate poverty and promote economic development. The bill offers a 4.3 percent increase in these programs, $6.2 billion above last year – while the White House proposed to cut $3.6 billion.

    You can label this pork if you wish. But as I have pointed out before, Dave, Clavos, and others on here would label almost all federal spending pork, and nearly all federal taxes a barely necessary evil.

    Example: The bill would allow the President’s tax reforms to expire, resulting in “the largest tax increase in history,” which would be devastating for the economy and for American citizens, and would likely reduce government revenues in the resulting recession.

    Pure unproven and unprovable silliness. To the tune of about $60 billion per year, most of those tax cuts go to people with incomes over $1 million. Bush’s tax cuts are not holy writ; they can be revised without the economy collapsing.

    The reactions to Charlie Rangel’s recent revenue-neutral tax proposal show the real motivations of his opponents: they immediately branded it ‘the largest tax increase in history,’ a phrase Dave happily cops. Revenue neutral = not a tax increase. Fairly simple concept.

    One can in fact disagree with the right’s extremist views on spending and taxes without being a socialist or a porker.


  • I don’t believe the tax cut expiration is part of the bill anyway. It couldn’t have gotten 50 Republican votes in the House if it were.

    Maybe the bill simply doesn’t extend the tax cuts? But they run until 2010 anyway.

    The Dems are operating under Paygo rules that require bills to pay for themselves somehow. But they would explicitly put expiration of tax cuts into a bill only if they did not expect any Republican support.

    The bill Bush vetoed is the $150.7-billion Labor, Health and Education appropriations bill. Perhaps some fact checking is in order?

  • bliffle

    We ratified corruption in 2004. Stop complaining and try to find your own takeout while we ransack the (diminishing) remainder of the countries wealth.

  • Maurice (if I may address you by your registered trade mark): I believe Larry isn’t gay. I also believe Bill did not have sexual relations with that woman and that the terrorists will get us if we even think about voting Democrat.


  • Further clarification: The $150.7 billion bill and the $606 billion bill are one and the same. The smaller figure is the ‘discretionary’ spending, the rest is Medicare and Medicaid.

  • Maurice®

    Dr. Dreadful (if that really is your name)

    you make me laugh! Would you ever use an airport toilet to poop?!?!

    I have proximity issues and cannot imagine another persons foot getting within a foot of my foot. I can’t imagine using the airport toilet. I would soil myself first!

    Certainly Craig craves the subservient blow job and I am glad he got caught!

    He has been “watched” for over 2 years now because it was suspected that he had “gay” proclivities.

    You are the first person to notice I am registered.

  • Clavos

    “You are the first person to notice I am registered.”

    Correction. He’s the first to comment on it.

    For Maurice.

  • Maurice®

    Clavos my ever present friend –

    Unfortunately I got the following when I clicked your link:

    The url contained a malformed video id

    Fix it and I’ll check it out…

  • Clavos

    My apologies, Maurice.

    This time, hopefully, it’s Fine and Mellow…

  • Ah, Billie!

  • Clavos

    Yes, indeed.

    And with an incredible lineup of musicians backing her up.

  • Maurice®

    Clavos – thanks for the link.

    Nice little Holiday in the morning……

  • heh…”nuff said”, “but i digress”, “Quoted for Truth” and now pertinent musical linkages!!!

    i may be all kinds of a Freak…but it appears that there is a tiny bit of Influence exerted…

    oh my stars and garters…does that mean some folks actually read some of this shyte?



  • troll

    …mostly bots and other forms of AI

  • that implies intelligence, Artificial or otherwise…

    some days i would Agree…other days i wouldn’t

    seems to depend on the Thread as well

    it’s pretty ridiculous to me that the most heated threads lately have the name of Chavez in it, as if that was somehow vitally important in the grand scheme of things at this time

    just another Distraction from the real Concerns, imo


  • troll

    (gonzo…like you my mood these days is determined to some degree by how my broke down old Church feels like treating me at any given moment

    rode hard and put up wet way too many times – and the attitude ‘pain is my friend’ gets tiresome

    …but I was kidding about the bots)

    as for the Chavez threads – for me they are a case study in how ‘fact’ is governed by ideology…gotta have faith that eventually we’ll find out what’s going on there

    I enjoy them and have lowered my expectations for the participants…I’ve seen and participated in plenty of performance art and realize that sometimes it works and sometimes it falls flat

    the participants usually figure out that they have to keep moving and modulating at some point

  • i hear you, troll

    home for the day, myself…can’t even get into my truck to go to work…so heavily medicated, pacing..and standing at the computer attempting to keep my mind off the Pain daemon

    all my Best for you, hoping you feel better soon

    as for the rest…i guess i’m still too much the Idealist, and the “performance art” needs to have relevant Meaning to hold my Interest…

    and the current crop fails abysmally, imo


  • Clavos

    Sorry to break into the mutual admiration society and narcissism, but in IMO, gentlemen, the Chavez threads are VERY relevant (more so than threads about…oh, I dunno….voting boycotts?), since they are about events in a nation which is not only physically proximate to the USA, but which also is headed by a military man who is actively arming as many of his population as he can find weapons for, while doing his level best to oppose the USA and turn former “friends” in the region against US.

    This nation is also one of our principal (if not THE principal) suppliers of oil; and, although we’d like to make ourselves independent of foreign oil supplies (which I wholeheartedly support), we’re a long way from achieving that goal.

    Having a man whose public behavior so far borders on despotic lunacy controlling that oil is, again IMO, most definitely relevant and worthy of our attention.

    [Steps off soapbox]

  • I think the Chavez threads are significant because Chavez has become a ‘wedge’ issue. When he comes up it brings out certain types of commenters and illustrates the larger issue of the struggle of ideologies which is going on in the world. Without discussions like this Americans, who are generally complacent and unaware of international affairs, would have little understanding of the forces of international progressivism which are literally out to destroy the united states. But post an article about Chavez and all of a sudden the response brings those issues to the forefront.


  • fuck the whole Chavez thing..i’m sorry i even brought it up as an example of how Ideology trumps facts or relevance

    sorry to break it down this way..but if anyone can seriously contemplate that Venezuela is any kind of actual threat…well, let’s just say that it’s even less of a possibility than Iraq invading the U.S. by any sane account

    for all those of a neocon/Imperialist bent who are so fucking worried about “threats” to the U.S….allow me to remind them of one simple Fact

    nuclear fucking weapons

    the U.S. has them in droves, and can hit anywhere we want with overwhelming force and utter devastation as effect

    this pretty much rules out ANYONE ever being able to Invade the U.S., or being any kind of serious threat

    now, you want to talk economic threats…THOSE are very real, and being distracted from by all the bullshit warmongering and jingoistic posing/saber rattling

    last time folks were talking about some “despotic lunacy controlling that oil” and that we it was even remotely “relevant and worthy of our attention” we were lied into a quagmire that has cost untold number of lives

    for all that we claim to be a Nation of Liberty and Freedom, we sure as fuck appear to be that nosy fucking neighbor who can’t keep out of other people’s business when it just doesn’t concern U.S.

    propping up dictators all over central and south America (as well as folks like the Shah in the mid-east, or funding the mujahadeen/Taliban, etc) has NOT worked out well for U.S. , now has it?

    how many trillions will we wind up spending in Iraq?

    and all for what?

    no tangible benefit to the U.S. citizenry has EVER been shown, much less proven, for all these imperialist bits of adventurism

    but quite a few corps, including the mercs, make a killing (pun very much intended)

    now..shall we have a real look at what all the blowback has cost U.S. ?


  • troll

    Clavos – I agree that events in Venezuela are important…however I’ve concluded that I have no way to evaluate claims made by either side at this point

    and a difference between the Chavez and boycott threads is that the latter is a discussion about an action (even if radically fanciful) to take re a problem (the malignant nature of the US government/elections)…what are you suggesting should be done about Chavez – ?

  • Clavos

    “Clavos – I agree that events in Venezuela are important…however I’ve concluded that I have no way to evaluate claims made by either side at this point”

    Fair enough, troll. Obviously, up to this point I tend to believe the anti-Chavez partisans (in fact, I guess I IS one!), more than the pro, based on the (admittedly biased) input I get from numerous Venezuelans with whom I have direct contact, both here and in Venezuela, because I do boat business with firms located there.

    “what are you suggesting should be done about Chavez – ?”

    Simple answer: I dunno…Which is the chief reason why I participate in the discussions, hoping answers will come from them.

    I DO think that the Venezuelans who are opposed to him deserve more of an audience than they seem to be getting so far…

  • moonraven

    Oh really?

    President Chavez–who has been elected to that post FOUR FUCKING TIMES has not been invited to the White House since Clinton left office.

    Yet members of the Venezuelan opposition–especially the smarmy little twat (and I stand by that characterization 1000% despite being female) who receives all those millions of US tax dollars for the suberverive organization Sumate–have been invited to the Oval Office to kibbitz with Braindead Bush and have also been invited to commiserate with Condolences Rice and her underlings from Iran-Contra Scandal days in the State department.

    Plus, the opposition controls 80% of the media in Venezuela.

    Plus, the opposition is represented by all the US media–especially by Fox News, CNN, the Washington Times, the Miami Herald and the LA Times.

    That’s not attention?

    Precisely BECAUSE of all that SYMPATHETIC attention given to the opposition , Chavez makes damn sure that he does or says something that puts him way up there in the news EVERY day!

    Chavez is important news because he–and his vision–are important.

    The Saudis are sitting on a lot of petroleum reserves, too, but do you see their King–whose name I don’t even remember and I spend time in the Gulf!–on any list of the most important folks on the planet?

    I don’t.

    But, although Chavez and his project and his vision are important, they are NONE OF THE US’s BUSINESS.

    The Miami Mafia–and the wannabes like clavos– who are blackmailing foreign policy in this country, get SO much attention that they have become second only to the Israeli’s in running the show!

    Gonzo has thrown enough spaghetti at the wall on this site that one of his posts (39) finally hit the bullseye, and I congratulate him. for that!

    He complains about my style of performance art, yet beats us to fucking death with his links to juvenile interest topics. He would be more effective, in my opinion, if he put a more mature face on his comments.

    But that’s really none of my business [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor].

  • Clavos

    “President Chavez–who has been elected to that post FOUR FUCKING TIMES”

    Aptly put; he sure is fucking the Venezuelans.

  • Clavos,

    Sadly, I never got to see Billie Holiday perform live. She was gone before I knew about jazz, or much of anything else, for that matter.

    While living in NYC back in ’69-’70 I did get to see Betty Carter, Miles, Junior Mance, and Bill Evans among a few others live. What a treat. I was too poor – a lowly cab driver – to afford much more. On the rock side I did see Chicago, CSN and Laura Nyro while in the Big Apple.

    Most of the jazz greats of our time are, again sadly, gone. Thanks be to vinyl, tape and digits.


  • moonraven

    Ah–now we finally have the truth: clavos is down on Chavez because he isn’t fucking HIM!

    The Condolences Rice syndrome in evidence, again.

    Too bad–Chavez has faster and better looking fish to fry than you guys.

  • Clavos

    “Most of the jazz greats of our time are, again sadly, gone.”

    Unfortunately true, but there are some awfully good young lions out there, thankfully.

    The Marsalis family comes to mind.

    And this young man (on a rather unusual instrument for jazz) is another.

    And, because I get three links per comment…a short trumpet solo by Clark Terry.

  • Clav,

    Oh, yes. There are a number of very good contemporary jazz artists. I tend toward the singers, but there are a plethora of great instrumentalists as well.

    There is somewhat of a dearth of good male jazz vocalists now. I loved Johnny Hartman and truly rued the passing of Mel Torme’. Amongst the many young distaff jazz singers I like are Jane Monheit, Tierney Sutton and Karrin Allyson. I also like Diane Reeves, Diana Krall and Casandra Wilson who are a bit older, but young enough to be at the top of their game. I always loved Annie Ross, who I guess is still around – she’s done a lot of acting.

    A singer some don’t think of as a jazz singer, who I nevertheless really loved was Morgana King. She, too, is still alive, but I don’t know if she still performs. Her biggest claim to fame appears to have portrayed Vito Corleone’s wife in the Godfather In her day, though, she had an incredible range and unusual vocal quality.

    But, alas, I digress and totally off topic. Sorry Dave.


  • Clavos

    All fine singers whom I too like a lot, B-tone; especially Monheit.

    Annie Ross is still very much around; mostly doing vocalese with Lambert and Hendricks, I think.

    Here’s an oldie (1952) of hers, from before the formation of the trio.

  • sorry to break it down this way..but if anyone can seriously contemplate that Venezuela is any kind of actual threat…well, let’s just say that it’s even less of a possibility than Iraq invading the U.S. by any sane account

    Show me where I’ve EVER suggested that Venezuela/Chavez is a threat to the US? That’s not the issue here at all.

    I do think Chavez is a threat to other nations in the immediate region. I firmly believe that he will eventually attempt to subvert the governments and/or invade most of them, until he provokes a large-scale war in the region. But even that’s not an immediate threat to the US.

    I don’t think the threat he poses to the oil supply is meaningful. The solution to that problem lies in changing our energy sources, not in going to war for oil.

    And I certainly don’t suggest taking any action against Chavez at this point. As I’ve said before, the only reason I post on Chavez is that it continues to be superb bait to bring attention to REAL enemies of the US, who can invariably be found supporting Chavez.


  • REMF

    “And I certainly don’t suggest taking any action against Chavez at this point.”
    – Dave Nalle

    And even if you did, there still wouldn’t be any “action” on your part, just more pontificating and promoting sending someone else to fight your battles for you.

  • Clav,

    I may be wrong, but I believe Lambert has long since passed onto his great reward, as it were (which, I understand is rotting in a box.) The last I heard of Hendricks, who I believe is still drawing breath, was that he was teaching vocal jazz at some eastern college. An interesting note I think I recall about Hendricks is that he said he doesn’t read music. Unfortunately, neither do I.

    Actually, I believe Ross left the group fairly early on. The guys added Yolanda Bavan as their female vocalist. That grouping wasn’t quite as innovative or successful as they had been with Ross. Ross then recorded and performed on her own.

    I know both my sons like Monheit, perhaps more because she’s “hot,” at least as she appeared on her early album covers. The last time I saw her, though, she had put on a few pounds. Still had the chops, though.

    My younger son took a jazz theory class at Northwestern a few years ago. I loved how his professor told the class the way to tell if a song had “swing.” While listening to a song you are supposed to repeatedly chant in rhythm “Who parked the car? Who parked the car?” It seems to work.

    Another little aside. Of all the Rat Pack, the truly best singer of the bunch was, in my opinion at least, Sammy. If you can find it, give his album Sammy Davis, Jr. Sings, Laurindo Almeida Plays a whirl. It’s just Sammy singing and Almeida accompanying on acoustic guitar doing little ballads. It’s really fine.

    I know this is all off topic, but I’d much rather talk jazz, or music in general than politics, the war and all that crap.


  • moonraven

    Diane Reeves is great–it was worth seeing Good Night and Good Luck just to listen to her version of How High the Moon–so many universes apart from the sappy electric guitar of Les Paul and the ghoulish Mary Ford in the 50s that made me hate that song.

    Parker was great, Lester Young was even greater–and Coltrane and Monk were just too good.

    Miles Davis was good when he was blue–when he moved into fusion in the late 60s he lost it. Fortunately, I saw him play several times in the clubs of Seattle and San Francisco.

    I sang with a jazz/fusion quartet in Chicago in the late 60s through 1971–wasn’t any Billie Holiday, but had a lot more fun.

    There will never be another Chet Baker. Who just drifted out a hotel room window one night in Amsterdam, like an angel.

  • Clavos


    You probably are right; Lambert very well may be deceased.

    I hope you have a high speed (DSL or better) connection and a pair of speakers on your ‘puter, ’cause if you do, you’re gonna love KPLU.

    If you do have high speed, pick the “high” link at the top of the column on the left, under “Windows Media.”


  • Moon!

    Who knew? That’s great! I love music. I love jazz. Political foes I suppose, but jazz can bring people together, for a moment or two at least.

    I saw Miles and most of the others while I lived in NYC. That was a bit before his delving in fusion.

    I, too, love Chet Baker. I think there was some talk of his fall not really being a fall. But he was so dissipated by that time, nothing would be a surprise.

    I envy your singing experience. If I could do anything in the world right now, I think I would choose to sing jazz in bars, or wherever.

    For me, seeing Bill Evans several times at the “Top of the Gate” was truly special. Had he survived to his dotage, he would likely have been a prime candidate for scoliosis. He stood about six two or three and weighed about 140 pounds. He played stooped over with his head nearly touching the keys. He was not chatty. But he played.

    Seeing and hearing Diane Reeves in the film was so great. It took me a few moments to realize who she was. I knew the voice, but hadn’t seen her in person. When it came to me, I said Wow! out loud much to the consternation of my wife and everyone else in the theatre. Good film, too.


  • Clav,

    I am on Comcast cable. I checked out KPLU. It’s good. I have been using Pandora Internet Radio (http://www.pandora.com/) which allows you to set up what you listen to to some degree. It’s not great, but it’s okay.

    Of course, I have rather eclectic tastes. While I love jazz, I also listen to a great deal of classical, some opera (since my son is an operatic tenor,) and, some rock, folk, etc. James Taylor is my favorite among the latter. I just haven’t acquired a taste for Country. I guess that makes me un-American. What can I say?


  • Clavos

    I’m pretty eclectic in my musical predilections as well, B-tone.

    Like you, I also like folk, some rock (especially 60s groups), Bluegrass (but not pop country), and classical.

    Besides KPLU online, I also have Sirius satellite radio in the cars and at home.

    Recently, I discovered Amazon’s MP3 download section and have been buying a lot of jazz that way, downloading to the computer, burning a disc and then uploading to the Ipod as well. You can either buy tracks ($0.79-$0.99 ea.) or the whole albums. I buy albums.

    The MP3 downloads are usually much less expensive ($6-$10) than buying the discs, but of course, you don’t get the liner notes.

  • Clav,

    That’s just too much computer stuff for me. I copied a number of CDs from our library – guilty as charged – but that’s not a great way to do it. The library CDs are often in rough shape, and the copies are not always good.

    I’ve taken to buying CDs mainly from Amazon. I usually buy used. Haven’t had any particular problems with them. Hell, I recently bought a book from Amazon for thirty one cents. The shipping was about three bucks.

    I don’t own an IPod. I know I should endeavor to become more computer savvy, but after working on the computer much of the day and doing some blogging, I’ve pretty much had it.

    I get a great deal more satisfaction from gardening and working in the yard. I grow a lot of herbs, hoping to start selling some next year. I can’t possibly make a living doing that, but I enjoy it, and we could pick up some spare change, I guess.

    And, oh yeah, I prefer pork on my plate rather than in legislation.


  • mr caws – “He complains about my style of performance art, yet beats us to fucking death with his links to juvenile interest topics. He would be more effective, in my opinion, if he put a more mature face on his comments.”

    obviously someone not only doesn’t look at the majority of my links (to factual sources) and can’t grok the nuances of my utilization of Music/lyrics to add to my points

    fair enough…it sure ain’t for anybody, and i don’t expect carrion eaters to grasp everything

    you see, mr, my Problem with your stylings are the same as the ones i have with JoM or Limbaugh…

    all bombast, no real substance…more concerned with “gotcha” than solving a problem..or even addressing it accurately…your Choice of how you express yourself..and i HAVE defended you Right to do so, as well as argued against any who would ban or censor you…but you conveniently miss all of that since silly things like inconvenient Facts are to be Ignored for the sake of your bombast

    Vox sez – “Show me where I’ve EVER suggested that Venezuela/Chavez is a threat to the US?”

    show me where i said you did? learn to fucking read and recognize that you don’t rate a moment’s thought or concern, imo

    Vox sez – “I firmly believe that he will eventually attempt to subvert the governments and/or invade most of them, until he provokes a large-scale war in the region.”

    your purely emotional response unsupported by facts are irrelevant, and should such a thing occur as Chavez crossing outside of his borders militarily, then it would be time for the U.S. to get involved on behalf of any neighbor that asked U.S. to

    big difference

    Vox sez – “As I’ve said before, the only reason I post on Chavez is that it continues to be superb bait to bring attention to REAL enemies of the US, who can invariably be found supporting Chavez.”

    oh puh-lease…you can’t seriously contend that Chavistas or sympathizers are any kind of real threat…why don’t you just be honest for 30 seconds and admit that it serves your Agenda to promote distracting contention to pull attention away from real problems

    mr and Vox…two sides of the exact same coin, imo


  • Clavos

    gonzo sez:

    “…it serves your Agenda to promote distracting contention to pull attention away from real problems”

    I know this was really addressed to Dave, gonzo, but as one of the others who has published more than one article about the Venezuelan dictator, I want to be on the record that I DO NOT write the articles about him to “pull attention away” from anything.

    I write them because I know something about Latin America and the caudillos who have run things there for generations.

    The old saying goes, “write what you know,” and that’s what I’m doing.

    I write about what I care about; Latin America, and the problems in Venezuela and Latin America in general are more important to me than problems elsewhere.

    I really can’t get much interested in the problems of the Iraqis, and feel no responsibility for the problems of most of the rest of the world, so I don’t write articles about them, although I do like to comment from time to time on them, as you know.

  • write what you like…it’s still a free country for the time being

    i’ll still hold my Opinion, and will stay away form the bullshit of the Chavez threads

    “knowing something” about a topic is a far cry from knowing the subject…i stay away form topics that i don’t consider myself adequately informed about…especially if all the information on the topic comes from partisan sources

    and nothing i have seen or read on the topic convinces me that ANY of it comes form any kind of objective source…


  • Clavos

    “it’s still a free country for the time being”

    Not really. Not even close, IMO.

    “”knowing something” about a topic is a far cry from knowing the subject..”

    That’s the last time I’ll try to be modest. I know Latin America.

    “and nothing i have seen or read on the topic convinces me that ANY of it comes form any kind of objective source…”

    Well, if that’s your standard, I’m surprised you comment on ANY thread in the politics section.

  • i comment on the ones i know something about, or even have some some kind of interest in and desire to learn more

    but thanks for reminding me about the utter futility of attempted communication, and the frustration generated by the attempt

    it’s why i don’t try and publish here any more, and comment MUCH less than i used to

    soon enough i’ll leave it be entirely

    your welcome


  • troll

    …I on the other hand as should be clear from the body of my work archived here for the eager minds of future generations over whom I expect to wield undo influence most enjoy commenting on topics that I know absolutely nothing about

  • moonraven

    B-tone: It ain’t ALL jazz, baby.

    Last night I went to Bellas Artes to hear the Sinfonica de la Juventud Venezolana Simon Bolivar (another of Chavez’s heavily funded “populist” projects).

    This week in NYC Sir Simon Rattle said that they were “the future of classical music”–and he was right. They–and the 26 year old director Gustavo Dudamel who will next take over the baton of the LA Philhamronic–stood Bellas Artes on its ear!

    The program consisted of Bernstein’s West Side Story–nicely done with all of its echos of Ives and Copland and lots of life, too–and Mahler’s Fifth–of which I have never been a fan as have always thought it was just too many disparate threads and all that Mahler horn stuff is too teutonic for me.

    I had not even thought about that symphony since the last time I saw Death in Venice sometime in the early 80s or so–where the strings movement–adagietto or something was front and center as Bogarde/Aschenbach swooned and preened and passed on to prepare for another lifetime.

    But they actually held my attention all the way through the 5 movements. Then they did 4 encores! All the encores were by Latin American composers–and there were a fair number of folks there waving Venezuelan flags during all that.

    Really a fabulous concert–and now I am kicking myself for not going to hear them in Caracas when I could have gone for almost nothing but did not because I didn’t like the stuff on their program. They proved that they can blow me out of my seat with stuff I don’t even like.

  • moonraven

    Clavos KNOWS Latin America like Nalle KNOWS the MIddle East.

    Being born someplace by accident doesn’t make you an expert on it.

    More to the point, being born in Mexico City doesn’t make you an expert 60 some years later on Venezuela!

    You know NOTHING about Latin America.

    I live here, I give presentations about Latin America. I write and produce theater here about Latin America–and I do not consider myself to be an expert!

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • Clavos

    Born there, grew up there, lived there, worked for Latin American companies (there and here) for more than thirty years. Altogether, my experience with, and in, LatAm is more fifty years’ worth.

    Except for college and military service, I have been connected with LatAm (or living there) virtually all of my life; I have Latin in-laws and Latin (born and raised) nieces and nephews.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • And, residing currently in Miami, one might say that you still live in Latin America.

  • Clavos

    Point well taken, Doc.

    Often, the only time I speak (or write as is the case) English all day is here on BC.

  • MR, I wasn’t just born in the middle east. I lived there for a number of years, was raised in a family where contact with people from that region was constant, and I returned there when I was much older and have ongoing contacts there.


  • moonraven


    I was just funnin’ you, boy. I know you have never beenout of West Texas.

  • moonraven

    Clavos has never been to Venezuela.

    Yet he CLAIMS to be an expert on Latin America.

    Something does not quite sound right.

    Let me know when YOU are being paid to give presentations on Latin America around the world like I am.

    Then we can measure our honorarios. See which one is bigger, more effective, more agile, and pees further.

  • I made a few clandestine trips to Mexican border towns when I was in the US of Army in Texas. Does that give me Latin American cred? Mmmm. Maybe not.

    However, it was on a couple of those trips during which I was introduced to a potent little weed which when set afire and its smoke in turn inhaled brought about a happy new perspective on all things, Latin or otherwise.

    And, oh yeah, appropos of nothing really, I flunked Latin in high school. It’s all been pretty much down hill from there.


  • “I know you have never been out of West Texas.”

    I just saw him in Las Vegas.

  • moonraven

    I suspect that your experience of Mexico, though perhaps more limited, is actually more CURRENT that that of clavos. Of course he will tell us that he was just here last week. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    I did not flunk Latin in high school, but since I scored the highest on the Washington State Latin Exam, was offered a Classics scholarship at UW. I turned it down, accepted one at another university in Math and Physics, but ended up getting my BA from UW anyway–in English and Philosophy.

    Go figure.

  • moonraven

    El Bicho,

    It must have been vox populi you saw in Vegas.

    Or was it…Robert Vaughn?

    Of course, if he is still alive, he would be just a little older than Nalle–about 75 or so, probably….

  • Vaughn is alive and appearing in the BBC series “Hustle” which I think is still in production. He has more hair than Dave. The show just had an episode filmed in Vegas. Maybe that’s the source of the confusion. Other than the hair thing, I can see how one could confuse the two. NOT!


  • moonraven

    Everybody has more hair than Dave, I believe. Of course my own hair is thick, strawberry blond and a few inches below my shoulders, so the benefits of bald have never actually caught my attention.

    IT’s Nalle who told us [edited] that he looked like Robert Vaughn in the kof kof Magnificent Seven. I am still laughing over that one….

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • I worked with Vaughn on a film that never made it out of the can. It wasn’t him.

  • moonraven

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    Considering Vaughn’s singularly absent acting talent, I am not surprised that it didn’t make it out of the can.

    In fact, what I have always been surprised by, is that Vaughn ever made it INTO the can.

  • moonraven

    I don’t think I ever saw that program.

    But I am phobic about bald….

  • I’d say more like a late-career Ray Milland, but not sharing a neck with Rosy Greer’s head.

    As for baldness, it’s CLEAN [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]


  • I’m telling you guys, he’s the spitting image of John Carroll Lynch, formerly of the Drew Carey Show.

  • i dunno…

    i’ve always thought Vox looked closer to this pic

    could just be me… (and that was a Jest, for the humor impaired)


  • Dave looks like, well, uh, Dave.

  • aww..c’mon B-tone..my pic is pretty close to the mark..

    closer than Robert Vaughan for certain


  • Lapdog

    Just for once I’d like to win a popularity contest and I’m pretty sure I can by quoting Frank Zappa…”Jazz isn’t dead it just smells funny”.

    Meanwhile Manu Chao is alive and kicking.

  • Zappa counts bigtime…

    but if yer gonna go there

    objects in mirror are closer than they appear


  • Dave doesn’t have the same je ne sais quoi as Peter Boyle’s Frankenstein. And who can forget he and Gene Wilder’s rendition of “..utn on the riiiii?”


  • What hump?

  • Gonzo’s not so far off. I’ve always thought I looked like some version of frankenstein, with my large forehead and blocky head. I just wish I had Karloff’s beautiful hands.


  • Maurice®

    Clavos #47

    thanks for the great link to Jake Shimabukuro.

    I have not read all the thread here but someone mentioned that Venezuela was not a threat to the US…?

    We do get 15% of our oil from Venezuela. They may not be able to bomb us but they could hurt us economically.

    Apologies if someone has already made this point.

  • moonraven

    I will cheer when Chavez cuts off oil to the US.

  • Moon,

    Did you also cheer when the WTC buildings came down?

    When and if the shit really hits the fan, will you take pleasure in the chaos, destruction and death that may ensue?

  • bliffle

    Clearly, Chavez represents a Grave and Gathering Threat to the USA, so we must invade soon. But first we must invade Andorra, diabolically located in the Pyrenees Mountains between France and Spain. Though it only has a population of 70,000 it has millions of bank accounts of the Rich and Accomplished people of Western Civilization, the “Productive Class” of the west, as pronounced by none other than BC’s own Dave Nalle.

    I don’t need to tell the perceptive readers of BC how dangerous it is to have the financial resources of The West so precariously perched on a mountain top.

    Invade Andorra now! Can we win? Why, it’s a slam dunk!. The liberated Andorrans are certain to greet US liberators with flowers and cheers.

  • moonraven


    When the WTC came down I was giving a teacher training in Metepec. When I came out–by then it was afternoon–(They wanted to interview a Spanish-speaking person from the US and had been told I was in Metepec at a school.)

    I did not know what had happened, and when I was told I indicated that if it was a REAL attack the US had it coming, but that I didn’t trust the Bush Administration as far as I could throw them, so felt strongly that it was an inside job.

    All that was on the news at 10 p.m.

  • moonraven

    I inadvertently erased part of the post–it should have said I was greeted by tv cameras and microphones–after the parentheses.

  • bliffle – great plan, except for one thing. The Bishop of Urgell is going to be pissed.

  • So all those rotten, murderous, money grubbing gringos in the WTC, the Pentagon and aboard those planes got their just reward, huh? That’ll teach those bastards!


  • moonraven

    “The Little Eichmanns”, in the words of Native American scholar Ward Churchill?

    I don’t know if they got their just reward or not, but it was the Bush Gang that gave it to them–whatever it was–not this poster.

  • gonzo marx

    mr sez – “and when I was told I indicated that if it was a REAL attack the US had it coming”

    THAT is sinking to a sub-human new low

    to even joke that over 3000 people should die because YOU think they “had it coming” is so completely reprehensible on EVERY level than one can only Hope that your own gods punish you eternally in ways that would make the Inquisition appear to be a mild S&M party

    unfuckingbelievable to any sentient entity could even type such shit

    i was mistaken earlier…you are FAR worse than Vox could ever be…and obviously have all the human scruples of an upholsterer at Dachau…the World is a poorer place for every breath you consume


  • Lapdog

    And all the grubby, downtrodden, human rights demanding peasants and indigenous troublemakers in (put name of country in Central America, South America, South East Asia, the Middle East and any other place deemed by the US to be part of its ‘interests’, here) all got/get what was/is coming to them.

  • 7 @ 15:23PM — Baritone [URL]

    So all those rotten, murderous, money grubbing gringos in the WTC, the Pentagon and aboard those planes got their just reward, huh? That’ll teach those bastards!

    Well, 500 of them were Jews, so they must have deserved it, right?

    But seriously. Based on her statement in #96, the state department ought to have immediately started proceedings to revoke MR’s passport and citizenship, but I imagine they were too busy. She should certainly be on the no-fly list.


  • moonraven

    I said the US had it coming–can you not read!!!!!? With all the dirty wars the US has infliucted on the rest of the planet–including all the opnes it fomented and supportedf here in Latin America, what goes around comes around!!!!

    I did not say the Little Eichmanns themselves had it coming.

    [Gratuitous vulgarity deleted by Comments Editor]

  • Then why don’t you stop hiding behind the priveleges of your tainted US citizenship and surrender your passport.


  • moonraven

    Nalle, Why don’t you just TURN ME IN!

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • moonraven

    Especially since YOU personally voted for Bush–who can declare any US citizen an enemy combatant and ship her or him off to Guatanamo.

    Send the fuckers here to cart me off, you coward!

  • moonraven

    My US citizen is tainted, all right: with the blood that was shed by my Mohawk ancestors!

    Yours, Nalle, is only tainted by 1.2 million Iraquis–up to now–plus all the other millions slain around the planet in the name of US companies.

    I surrendered my US passport last week in the US embassy in Mexico City.

  • moonraven

    Patriotism IS the last refuge of scoundrels.

  • Why MR, we’re cousins beneath the skin. I have a Mohawk ancestor TOO! My mother’s great grandmother was raped by a Mohawk during a raid.

    I surrendered my US passport last week in the US embassy in Mexico City.

    Well then I give you credit for following through on your convictions. I hope your soul feels all clean and shiny now.

    As for why I wouldn’t turn you in, I believe in the right to dissent. I just didn’t think much of your hypocrisy of being so anti-american while holding a US passport, but you’ve impressed me with the authenticity of your convictions and I wish you luck on your new path.


  • moonraven

    Your grandmother was not raped by any Mohawk–but it’s too damn bad that YOU weren’t, Nalle. I am, in fact, the only clean and shiny being on blogcritics. The rest of you are just a bunch of murdering thugs.

    Tell us about how you danced in the street when all those Iraquis were murdered. Tell us to WHAT TUNE it was.

    I am out of here to eat lunch with a conscience so clean I will, in fact, eat off of it.

  • moonraven

    You do NOT believe in the right to dissent, or you would not have hysterically demanded from blogcritics.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • Martin Lav


    You must have some huge inferiority complex to sit around all day cybering with some unknowns on the net, talking about all your glories of the past. I mean are you our resident Forest Gump or what?

    I did this, I did that, I know everything… [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • moonraven

    that I be banned.

  • moonraven

    I did everything. I do not know everything–just a whole fucking lot more than YOU do. Not that it’s saying a whole lot….

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • moonraven

    And I am STILL doing everything [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor].

  • You do NOT believe in the right to dissent, or you would not have hysterically demanded from blogcritics. (that i be banned)

    Actually, that was never the solution I proposed, it was the one which the management decided was most practical. My first choice was that you be limited to 1 comment per thread per day and a total of X number of comments per day, but that semeed to be too hard to implement.

    Keep in mind that my primary interest in limiting your behavior was and has always been to try to keep the discussion section civil and avoid driving away those interested in discussing the topic at hand.

    No Mohawk actually would touch you except to cut your throat.

    I said my maternal great-great-grandmother, NOT me. I would hope no Mohawks wanted to rape ME. They did scalp her husband, though, so that ought to make you happy.


  • Martin Lav

    I bet Mexico wishes by now that we built that fence at the border…….if only to keep you out….

  • moonraven

    No, [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] I am afraid they have given me a “Constancia” for all that I have contributed to my communithy here.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    Nalle, I am glad to hear about the scalping. Is that why you have no hair? The Mark of Cain or something?

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • 16:31PM – moonraven
    I am out of here to eat lunch

    16:33PM – moonraven
    You do NOT believe in the right to dissent

    Wow – quick lunch.

    Hope it didn’t give you indigestion.

  • Nalle, I am glad to hear about the scalping. Is that why you have no hair?

    You know, I used to make that joke when I lectured on the frontier in my US History I class. To wit that scalpings were inheritable and that accounted for my baldness.

    As for being fat and ugly, I’d rather be ugly on the outside than ugly on the inside, MR. And I see it as karmic payment for being so damned handsome as a young man.


  • Martin Lav

    Is Mexico giving you a small village in Portugal in the hopes you will leave and live there?

    What do I have to do with Palestinians?
    Please explain that one….

  • moonraven

    Oh yeah?

    Well this Native American WASP is out of here.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • troll

    …the paradoxical reaction is complete: ‘moonraven’ – invented to protest us abusive commentors becomes the most gratuitously abusive character around

    yet another example of ‘you are what you resist’

  • Martin Lav

    and when all the animals were eaten, he started on his family, and when all his family was eaten, he started on his foot

    ….and now he is no longer hungry.

  • Well this Native American WASP is out of here.

    Just too much fucking foolishness.

    And yet you’ll be back tomorrow.

    Seriously, nothing better to do with your time?

  • Troll, seriously? Did Moon originally portray herself as a white knight?

  • troll

    …more the indignant injured party

  • moonraven

    I am the Native American Knight, not the WHITE Knight.

    And I will continue to be just as rude and abusive as the ambience here until Nalle is canned as “editor” of this section.

    He impedes any real communication among posters by shouting everyone down who doesn’t agree with his rigid, Texan-centric views.

  • Chris, #123:

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    Except that you missed my quote from it in #126.

    And with that in mind, I’m curious: just how is that a personal attack?

    Obnoxious, yes. But not directed to anyone in particular.

    Only explanation I can think of is that you just deleted it on principle because it’s Moonraven.

    I wonder if some sort of macro could be devised, so that no matter what she writes, it displays automatically on the site as “personal attack deleted by comments editor”?

    Wouldn’t that save you soooo much time?



  • Clavos


    How’dja do that, Doc?

    Hadn’t seen that before, so it took me a few seconds to figure it out.

    Love it, but can’t find how to do it…

  • Martin Lav

    “But I will defend to the death your right to come on here”

    Sounds just like something Dave Nalle would say and has said.

    I love women by the way, especially older women. My first girlfriend was from the Puyallup tribe in Washington State. Beautiful lady. She had a mother that sounded just like you. Hated all white men, for being white and male. As far as I know she died a lonely bitter women, or she moved to Mexico, not sure which. Same thing I guess.

  • moonraven

    Not lonely. Not from the Puyallup Tribe–although since I was born in Washington State I have quite a few Native American friends from the area.

    Not bitter. Lots of lovers or would-be lovers much younger than I am because I am still beautiful.

    Sounds like YOU are the one who got dumped on your ass and is bitter about it.

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • Easy enough to do, Clav. Type a capital I five times and put subscript tags around all but the middle one.

    Remembering of course – as Ruvy so often does not – to close your tags!

    (Haven’t seen him around the site recently, now I think of it. Hope he’s OK.)

  • Moonraven:

    Call me odd, but I’m really not given to supplying new information to people who have just told me to fuck off.

  • moonraven

    [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    Of course, I am enormously superior to you and others in my generosity, as I DO provide facts and information about the geopolitical world SOME of us live in–without expecting someone to either jerk me off or kiss my ass. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • troll

    *And I will continue to be just as rude and abusive as the ambience here until Nalle is canned as “editor” of this section.*

    proving what – ? that you can jerk off with the best of them…if you haven’t noticed – you are the exemplar of negativity setting the vicious ambiance around here these days

    and clearly it isn’t just Dave – who imo won’t and shouldn’t be canned despite his petty offenses and who has the right to express his wacked out views – you go off frothing at the mouth at just about anybody within reach simply for entertaining ideas that you disagree with

    I don’t get it with you – that’s a heavy load of hate and anger you choose to haul around…I recommend a sweat

  • Yeeuuch!!!!!

  • Where is SR when we need him, BTW? To my recollection, he’s the only commenter on BC to have succeeded in posting things the Corvid of Selene has no comeback to.

  • troll

    humbug – you’re here looking for an outlet for the ol’ corpograhia and are a waist of time – we all learned your one note long ago

  • troll

    …left out an ‘r’ somewhere

  • moonraven

    Baronius–In the words of that icon of the US justice system, Robert Blake:

    Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.

    You folks are neck-deep in both.

    Noooooooo sympathy from the beautiful bird. Not a whit.

  • Martin Lav

    Moonie do think I’m Jewish or something?
    Or am I missing your sardonic wit somewhere?
    Why you keep accusing me of killing Palestinians, I have no idea…..

  • Martin, even if you weren’t Jewish before, you are now.

    Whatever she says is gospel. Didn’t you know that?