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Dean’s “Version of the Facts”

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I hope this goes over a little better than last time.

The latest from Howard Dean….

——————-
“What the propagandists on the right have done is make people afraid to say they are Democrats,” Dean told a gathering of Vermont Democrats. “We have to be out there. We have to be vocal. We have to be pushing our version of the facts because their version of the facts is very unfactual.”
——————-

The last sentence blew my mind.

Does the Democratic party realize that there isn’t a “version of the facts”? The entire essence behind factual information is that it is completely devoid of a “version” to begin with. I can’t tell you that my version of the temperature outside is 110 degrees, I can only tell you that it is, in fact, 11o. Truth is what it is, that means it stands apart from bias, opinion, manipulation and perception.

That could very well be the problem with the Democratic party, because believe me, its not lack of vocalness. The public doesn’t want a party’s version of the facts, WE WANT THE ACTUAL FACTS. It is incomprehensibly stupid not only to believe that the way to get votes is to manipulate reality, but also to openly discuss it. Look, you can be a conniving political strategist all you like, but its self-defeating to admit it. You don’t hear Karl Rove giving speeches on the administration’s plan to give obviously false death toll numbers, now do you? (For the record, that’s not a real plan)

Why can’t the Democrats (and Republicans to some degree) realize that when the public polls heavily in favor of values it means we want actual values? No one wants the appearance of values, false values, temporary values, extremist values, or any other political bullshit variation of values. We want our leaders to actually care about what we care about, not cater to the desire for the sake of gaining office.

Like when Dean says he wants to ” position [them]selves as the party of change,” he doesn’t mean he intents to be the party of change, he merely wants the position thereof. We might as well be calling the Democrats the Gold Collar Party (click link for explanation) as reality is trumped by perception. How can a politician honestly claim to desire change when he readily admits to pushing his own “version of the facts”? If Republicans “have never made an honest living in their lives” then what do you call openly discussing your plan to fool voters into believing your agenda through deft manipulation of factual information?

Contradiction is in no short supply for this man, who in the same article criticizes conservatives for “running away from issues” yet advising that the way Democrats can win debates is to “frame” it to their advantage. (Framing a debate is a nice way of saying “stick to the issues we can win on and avoiding all others) The DNC motto might as well be “Shamelessly Calling the Kettle Black.”

As for Dean’s goal of taking the country back “vote by vote, precinct by precinct, door by door, year by year and election by election,” all I can say is never going to happen. You just don’t make headway with the already tired public by throwing more politic feces at them. The time has come (though it has always existed) for genuine leaders to emerge. The “version” people long for is not a “version” at all, but rather truth and honesty. The Democratic party’s recovery (if it happens) will not come in the form of further manipulation but in reasonable and heartfelt politics. No one wishes to hear from a party so self-obsessed that they fear no repercussions from discussing future lies, we wish to hear of the principles and actual beliefs of the party.

RyanClarkHoliday.com

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  • obnoxious

    I can’t believe I have to explain this to you, RCH, but here’s how it really works:
    The public makes it’s mind up based on what it wants to believe. For example, Muslim extremists attack and destroy the WTC. The Muslim bad guy they’ve been hearing about for the past ten years is Saddam Hussein.
    The ‘wise’ politician, Bush, then finds a way to make Hussein guilty, if not directly, then perhaps through citing ‘aid to the terrorists’, and lies about WMD’s to make the threat of aid ‘aid to the terrorists’ all the more grave.
    The U.S. goes to war. The war goes well, but the occupation is a little harder than everyone who wanted to go thought it would be. Extremism is able to spreadthroughout the Muslim world, from Indonesia to North Africa to London.
    The the media reports, factually, truthfully, and complete compliance with all evidence,
    that Hussein had no WMD’s and had not aided Al-Queda in the 9/11 attacks.
    To the majority of the Americans who supported the war at it’s onset, this means that the media is:
    A) Being more honest than the useless idiot in the White House
    or
    B) Somehow aiding the terrorists

    People only want to hear that their preconcieved notions are correct. They do not want to hear that George Galloway is an ELECTED MP because he ran in a majority Muslim (Western and democratric, I might add) distict.
    They don’t want to hear that journalist Steven Vincent wrote an Op-ed piece warning that Shia religious extremists were taking over the local governments in the south of Iraq and that they were operating death squads, and WITHIN THE WEEK he was killed by a shia death squad.

  • gonzo marx

    i can readily agree that facts are facts, and that i woudl love politicions to be much more objective in their dissemination of said facts

    what i find silly is your assertation, both actual and implied, that the GOP is somehow any more accurate in their espousing of facts than the dems

    the ACTUAL facts of the last 5 years do NOT bear this fallacious postulate out

    and observation will show, in the coming months/years, which political faction is cosest to accurate reresentation

    as of now, neither is that close…but the GOP, especially Rove/DeLay et al, are so much further away from objective Reality that it renders you Post not only blatantly partisan, but rather ludicrous…

    examine the Facts, then recognize the fact of who is running the overnment, so their playing fast and loose with objective reality has a much greater impact on the individual citizen than a party chairman

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • Shark

    Thanks to the most lying, manipulative administration in American history, the IRONY in this “essay” is almost as thick as the bullshit.

    ==========

    BUSH/GOP “facts”:

    Saddam was involved with bin Laden and al Qaeda in the plotting of 9/11

    9/11 terrorists attacked us because we’re “a beacon of freedom”

    Saddam has WMDs

    We’ll be greeted with kisses and flowers after the Iraqi invasion

    Mission Accomplished!

    Niger yellow cake purchases by Iraq

    John McCain has a “black” baby

    Swift-boat Vets “facts” that were all lies

    A fake reporter in White House press conferences tossing softballs and wet kisses at Scott McClellan

    Aluminum tubes were proof of a nuclear program in Iraq

    WHOOPS! Iraq’s WMDs were sent to Syria for hiding. (or Iran)

    An International Atomic Energy Agency report indicated that Iraq could be as little as 6 months from making nuclear weapons. (IAEE said no such report existed)

    Ahmed Chalabi and the Iraqi National Congress are a popular Iraqi political force, not a U.S.-sponsored front.

    Bush is waging an all-out “war on terror” (So when do we invade Saudi Arabia?)

    We’re “making progress” against Al Kayda and Islamic terrorists.

    The insurgency in Iraq is in “its last throes…” (Cheney)

    Saddam was capable of launching a chemical or biological attack in 45 minutes.

    The U.S. is obeying the Geneva conventions in its treatment of terror suspects

    The Jessica Lynch fiasco

    ===

    oh, so many lies, so little time!

    Somebody else wanna CONTINUE!?

    ===

    PS: Ryan, I know yer only 18, but here’s some advice:

    1) edit

    2) spell check

    3) proofread

    4) open yer eyes

    5) walk the walk: join the Marines and go to Iraq

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com Steve S

    Do you really believe that there is no presenting of facts in a way that promotes one’s viewpoint? Dean is talking about the skewing of facts. Both sides know about it, both sides do it.

    To pretend this doesn’t exist is very naive and would make it difficult to take anything you say with a grain of salt. I certainly couldn’t take political advice from someone choosing to remain in la-la land.

    Anybody who wants to tell me that the Right is just sticking to facts and not presenting them in a pro-Right light, already has me disinterested in anything else they might have to say.

  • JR

    The facts may be constant, but the narrative is different from person to person. Facts are context-less and therefore boring. The public eats up a good narrative; and that is what the parties, the media, bloggers, etc. are each trying to push. Narratives are sold as “factual”, but they are neither true nor false. Indeed, they aren’t even real; they are just made up stories that fit a selected perceived set facts to a greater or lesser degree.

  • billy

    why get all hung up on the last sentence of deans statements

    the dems version of the facts is … true

    the rpubs version of the facts is . . . a lie

    what more to say?

  • http://www.ryanclarkholiday.com Ryan

    If you can find where i said “Republicans are completely innocent of this” I’ll gladly take the post down. But I wont have to because I never said that. In fact, I even included conservatives in my crit.

  • Bruce

    Anything that Dean, or any of the looney left says, is not worthy of coherent, intellectually honest comment.

  • gonzo marx

    and anything that Bruce, or any of the crypto fascist neocon GOP dittohead pigfuckers says, is not worthy of pissing towards if they were on fire…

    /end sarcasm

    goose, gander

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • Bruce

    Gonzo,

    I rest my case.

    Thanks,

    Bruce

  • Shark

    *Bruce, yer my brave hero!

    * having taken Jessica Lynch’s place in Shark’s imaginary Hero Hall of Fame

  • ss

    Bruce:
    Truelly I am in the presence of a staggering intellect. Although your comment was concise, your use of the phrase ‘looney left’, not to mention the word ‘looney’ by itself, left me shaken by your sublime coherence and intelligence.
    How, sir, may I learn to be as insightful as you?
    Should I watch Hannity & Colmes?
    Will a mere one hour of FOX NEWS (come’n atcha) a day be enough?
    Perhaps I should consult the Scriptures for a more accurate view of the natural underpinnings the world, and a better understanding of the science, engineering, and technology that threaten us at every turn.
    Should I turn instead to Greeks?
    Will learnig of the deep affection and respect that Socrates had for democracy and the common man help me to better understand the thinking of the neocon movement?
    Perhaps Machiavelli?

  • billy

    bruce is obviously deranged. he is one of the few people left that thinks sending troops to the middle east to anger and incite muslims is going to make us safer.

    he also believes our national treasury should be spent rebuilding iraq, but democrats are big spenders.

    someone this detached from reality should not be expected to say anything coherent, nor brush his teeth or bathe.

  • Bruce

    Billy,

    Again, no comment is necessary. There is no hope for you and Gonzo.

    Cheers,

    Bruce

  • Bruce

    SS,

    There is hope for you.

    Keep smiling.

    Bruce

  • http://www.ryanclarkholiday.com Ryan

    This site is more and more a joke. Do people actual debate on here anymore or is the bashing of posters and commenters the preferred avenue?

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Even amidst the bashing I love this site. I am grateful every day for a place where I can come and vent steam and even learn something. Every day that I come here I learn something new about the world, people or myself. The fact that you even had the opportunity to post here and call the place a joke, Ryan, makes me smile. All too often we forget how precious that freedom really is.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    If your original post hadn’t started the bashing, Ryan, the ensuing conversation might have been more constructive.

  • http://hungrytroll.com troll

    hot damn…

    BC has been wallowing in civility for far too long…I was afraid that creeping obsequious comity had taken over

    let’s hear it for good ol’ unwashed vitriol

    bruce is hitler
    gonzo tilts at windmills (a dirty job, etc…a better man than I)
    billy’s name sucks eggs
    Ryan is a whiner

    come one come all…the boardwalk is open

    troll

    “crypto fascist neocon GOP dittohead pigfuckers”…funny!

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    What exactly does “tilt at windmills” mean?

  • Eric Olsen

    a reference to Don Quixote and the pursuit of the quixotic

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    It’s like tilting at the lists, only with windmills instead of the lists.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Thank you, Eric. Perhaps you can answer another question. Why is the “x” in Quixote pronounced like an “h” but it is not the same in the word quixotic?

  • Shark

    Rayn: “…Do people actual debate on here… or is the bashing of posters and commenters the preferred avenue?”

    This from a tolerant, debate kinda guy who writes about the “Gold Collar Nation”:

    “…My vision of America has people who spend more than they make beaten with sticks until they cease to rack up debt…”

    Once again — since Ryan’s hero (George W. Bush) has built the LARGEST deficit in American history while cutting taxes and waging a “war” — the kid is apparently FUCKING IRONY IMPAIRED.

    =====

    Speaking of “Facts”:

    I love the “fact” that Ryan constantly tosses partisan verbal hand grenades (aka “essays”) into a ‘room’ and then cries like a French school-girl when others respond with the same tone.

  • http://hungrytroll.com troll

    perhaps shark’s vision of gonzo smashing his head into walls was a better way to put it…gonzo isn’t imagining his intellectual adversary when he writes over and over:

    ID = metaphysics
    evolution = science

    for example

    but he is fighting the good fight and his effort is above and beyond…reason

    thanks for the correction Silas –

    troll

  • Shark

    Troll, wrong meeting room.

    =======

    Dear Silas,

    Please report to Spanish Literature 101 for a little re-education program — followed, of course, by a quick delousing.

    Just tryin’ to be helpful,
    Herr Shark, Minister of Education

  • Eric Olsen

    Silas, because the title Don Quixote is pronounced in the original Spanish, while “quixotic” is Americanized, or rather Englishized

  • Eric Olsen

    make that Anglicized

  • gonzo marx

    Quixotic…i’ll gladly accept that

    heartening to read i’m not alone, on occasion

    “one great big festing neon distraction,
    i’ve a Suggestion to keep you all occupied…
    learn to swim.”

    Tool

    Excelsior!

  • gonzo marx

    bah..should be “festering”

    did i mention i do dislike being dyslexic…

    ah well…

    Excelsior!

  • billy

    troll, the first person at bc to piss off liberal and conservative alike. quite a difficult thing to do. have you no remorse?

  • http://hungrytroll.com troll

    hehehe

  • gonzo marx

    hey now..some like our lil troll…

    the reason i am a “better man” than he is because he’s not a man..

    he’s a fucking troll!!!

    now get yer warty ass back under the bridge before the sun comes out and you get to “stoned” to be of any use!!

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    What’s wrong with getting stoned?

  • gonzo marx

    nothing, but when troll does it, he can’t move or type till nightfall again…so damned literal..

    but i digress…

    Excelsior!

  • swineinfestedwh

    Dean’s comment was:

    “We have to be pushing our version of the facts because their version of the facts is very unfactual.”

    ‘Version of the facts’ does not mean lie, and those on the left have every right to skew their interpretation of ‘facts’. God knows the other side is doing it.

    Unless one is talking an absolute truth, a lot of things can be open to interpretation – and Dean is right to insist that other voices need to be heard.

    What the Bush Admininstation and it’s band of cheerleaders has done is to usurp not the facts, but the very logic used to determine how to interpret the facts.

    The problems when you screw with logic are not just limited to national defense. Great examples goven above, by the way.

    Here are some more things the GOP Congress and Bush Administration have stated and supported:

    Global warming becomes a fantasy, requiring no action to correct it.

    Increasing mercury pollution is ‘no big deal’.

    Passing NCLB is a great thing; it’s o good it doesn’t even have to be funded to work.

    Our troops are so superior to the enemy in Iraq they don’t even need proper equipment to fight the battles.

    Our troops are so well taken care in America’s economy that when they come back we don’t need to take care of the injured.

    {Just ask the GOP Congress how they have shortchanged our people on the ground – they’ll make excuses, but I’ll wager nary a one has a kid on the ground in a Humvee}

    Artificially lowering interest rates and taxes on the upper classes creates a strong economy.

    The one time GW Bush calls for ‘all views to be heard’ – oh, ya:
    Creationism and Intelligent Design become valid concepts to teach in science classes.

    The list is endless; this whole government is based upon distortions and lies – it’s not just Iraq.

  • Dave

    What strikes me as amazing is how willing the Republicans are to jump at a poorly selected phrase such as “version of the facts” rather than address the atrocities that are occuring by their own party.

    How about the FACT in his first state of the union that George Bush promised to retire 2 trillion dollars of debt, and instead he’s giving us that much more? That’s a 4 Trillion dollar swing, which is nearly 2 years of total U.S. federal tax revenue.

    How about the FACT that Bush promised to fire the leakers. He didn’t say anything about breaking the law last year.

    How about the FACT that Bush was determined to invade Iraq at the same time he told the American people that he would avoid it by any means possible?

    How about the FACT that there is no WMD?

    Here’s one that never got much news: How about the FACT that we supported a coup in Venezuela?
    Hmmm what about Venezuela is interesting? Chavez was democratically elected, they are socialist, oh yeah… they have oil!

    So here is where facts get versions… We know the administration has ties to oil. Wolfowitz, Rice, Bush (and Bush Sr.), Cheney all have direct ties to oil, construction (of oil wells) and energy. So when you factor in the FACT that oil companies just got tax breaks, became members of OPEC, oil barrell prices are at an all time high, Iraq laws were written to be a pro big business haven, iraqis are not getting jobs (or job contracts) because foriegn contractors are getting them… and about 100 other little details… our VERSION of this is that the war was over OIL and not terrorism (Because Saddam didn’t have WMD and he wasn’t connected significantly to terrorism).

    And suprise suprise! Who is next on the list? Oh is it Iran? Now those guys don’t have very much OIL do they? Doesn’t North Korea already have nuclear weapons? We gonna invade them? Hell no. We’re going after Iran. Wonder why?

  • http://www.ryanclarkholiday.com ryan

    so you’re telling me you honestly believe we’d have a smaller defecit if kerry was currently in office? i dont remember ever condoning or complimenting bush on his fiscal responsibility, i simply remember declaring him and the republicans the lesser of two evils

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    We’d have a smaller defecit by outlawing tobacco subsidies, legalizing hemp and eradicating the money grubbing special interests beginning with those on K Street. Whomever we install in the White House has little to do with it. According to the Constitution, Congress is charged with the responsibility of dispensing the government’s revenues.

    Though the Executive Branch prepares the budget and has veto power, Congress allegedly controls the purse strings. Once a person navigates through some of the filings at the Federal Election Commission it becomes abundantly clear that it is the valued advise of those who represent the special interests that is taken into consideration before the will of the rank and file.

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