I have a question for all the men out there:
What happened to chivalry?
Maybe it's just me, but I have yet to find a guy who implements the level of chivalry that would easily be classified as appropriate and acceptable in today's society. I don't expect any guy to take off his jacket and cover a puddle so I can walk over it without getting wet, but what I do expect is to be treated like a lady.
What do I mean by this? Here are my top 5 picks for doable, chivalrous acts in today's society:
- Open the car door for me
- If I'm cold, offer me your jacket
- If I am carrying something heavy, carry it for me
- Hold doors open for me
- Help me with my chair when we sit down at a table
Why it is virtually impossible to find a guy who implements all these acts is really confusing to me. The only explanation I can come up with is our culture.
We see it on TV and in the movies all the time, guys who just don't quite get it. Guys who don't hold doors open for women, guys who watch women struggling to carry heavy things but continue to sit on the couch and watch the game, guys who fail to offer girls their jackets if it is cold out. It is like our culture has made it acceptable to bypass basic acts of chivalry and has created a breed of man that lacks the ability to treat a lady like a lady. So much for sweeping women off their feet.
I'm sure there are men that will read this article and say "Chivalry is dead. Get over it. Women wanted to be treated as equals, they got what they wanted, now deal with the consequences." My response? "If you want me to treat you like a respectable man, start acting like a gentleman and treat me with the respect a woman deserves. Would you be happy if I stopped cooking or going out of my way to do nice things for you? I doubt it, so you can be darn sure I am not happy if you stop acting like a gentleman."
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Victor Lana
Well, everyone has a different take on this one, Ashley. Growing up I was "taught" to do these kinds of things by my mother and grandmother. My father taught me that women were to be always treated with respect. I got it from both the male and female sides in my life.
2 - alohaitsaj
Victor, I am glad to hear you were raised to be chivalrous. Maybe it's just my age group, but it is hard to find guys my age who know how to treat women with respect.
3 - zingzing
i do follow the simple requests of chivalry, but i have come to question some of them... sure, carrying something heavy or helping a lady stay warm by freezing your ass off is all good, but do women really have that much trouble with doors and chairs? no, they don't. so, while i'll continue to do these things, i'll continue to wonder what it all means. it's funny how they become very adept with manipulating doors and such when they're pissed off.
also, i will fight dragons for your honor, wherever they be.
4 - Scotty2
I do all of this stuff and have done since I was quite young. So chivalry's not dead, but I hardly see it among my age group (I'm 19). And that's unfortunate.
5 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
So Women fight to be viewed as equals which is not only a just fight but one they shouldn't have to fight...We are all equal! Yet, at the same time, Women want this special treatment, in which I agree with zing, with actions that are losing their meaning. Unless, you are talking about being courteous. In that case, then those actions can be displayed by both sexes. Seriously, imho, Women who want this kind of treatment don't want to be viewed as equals. They want someone to take care of them and I feel that goes against the work that a lot of Women have done in the name of equality.
6 - roger nowosielski
zing, brian - you seem intent on deflating the idea of gesture as an act devoid of any meaning. Courtesy is the general term applicable to all humans, and it has to do with form, with acting in a civil and polite manner. Chivalry is gender specific. Both, however, are of medieval origin (courtesy derives from "court," of course.)
What I fail to understand, though, is why a gesture should have anything to do with, or impact, gender equality. Are you suggesting perhaps that's the sticker price that comes with gender equality?
7 - zingzing
well, i certainly didn't bring up the gender equality thing. there are certainly many double standards that still exist, and the genders really don't have true equality in a lot of ways. so women can still have chivalry in my books. i also still cannot slug the shit out of one, which i'm fine with, although the powerless one feels when one is slugged by a woman still stings.
all i was saying is that the gesture (particularly the car door and chair things) actually belittles women in a way. but the idea is ingrained, i guess. of course it doesn't mean they can't open doors or sit down without some help, but... well, what does it mean? i'll do it because i'm supposed to and i'll do it to be nice, but i have no clue where that shit started.
others, like waiting for a woman to be seated (whether you help her or not) before you seat yourself, seem just as meaningless, but i have no problem, real or imagined. dunno why that one doesn't bother me in the least.
and yet other "chivalrous" acts, such as standing when a lady enters the room would, in most circumstances, be viewed as strange these days.
8 - jeannie danna
When my husband and I first dated, it was the sixties and women were trying to even the field...I bought him drinks and whoever got to the door first, opened it for the other.
that's the way it was
9 - roger nowosielski
" . . .but i have no clue where that shit started."
Sure you do, in the Middle Ages, chivalry derives from chevalier, the horseman, the medieval knight. And so does "courtship," a romantic attachment a knight was expected to cultivate with his chosen lady.
10 - zingzing
i was being a little more specific than that, i suppose. i can certainly understand a man helping a fair maiden down from a horse, but out of a car? come on. unless you're pregnant or lame, that one's just a bit strange. it's nice and it's polite and yadda yadda yadda, but if a perfectly able-bodied woman expects that out of me, well, i like a more independent type. it's special occasion chivalry.
also, i'd bet the ideas of chivalry go back much further than the middle ages, even if they hadn't been codified and celebrated as such.
11 - roger nowosielski
The Tristan and Isolde myth is oftentimes cited as one of the first to address the idea of romantic love; chivalry is part of that.
Anyway, talk to you later. Movie time.
12 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
"What I fail to understand, though, is why a gesture should have anything to do with, or impact, gender equality."
Well, because chivalry is gender specific. So, how does that not impact or affect gender equality. It's lopsided.
And, it depends on the woman that you're trying to be "chivalrous" to. I've had experiences where some women I've met thought that asking to help them carry a heavy load was insulting. Like, they couldn't do it themselves. I can see their point. Maybe, chivalry started from the idea that opening a door or moving a chair was beneath their status. I mean, society has had some strange ideas wrapped around public behaviors and such(table manners,etc).
As for being courteous, it's a gesture that is made by choice NOT by ingrained programming. If you wanna do something silly then by all means. Just don't act all insulted when I choose not to practice those behaviors...
13 - Arch Conservative
I don't know about you Ashley but in my marriage as well as many others out there chivalry is alive and well.
I hold the door for my wife, lift heavy packages and cook my own damn food.
I think we're able to maintain chivalry because my wife didn't go to Smith, Vassar or one of the other muff diving schools we're the jihad to slay chivalry and all signs of traditional masuclinity is in full force so she can appreciate it. I on the other hand, am not some emascualted, politically correct, metrosexual liberal sissy boy. It works out well that way.
Despite it being 2010 I think most people would generally prefer to subscribe to the traditional gender roles of men as provider/protector, women as homemaker/nurterer than the views of a feminzai like Andrea Dworkin who believes "all sex is rape."
14 - Benjamin
What happened to chivalry?! Easy - feminism. Ya'll changed the rules, you made it so we don't know our up from our down. When I get told that treating someone like a "lady" is a form of sexism, fuck-it, I quit.
15 - Benjamin
Arch,
Being a liberal has nothing to do with this [personal attack deleted]. I'm a liberal and still believe in holding doors, changing the oil and all that shit. Fuck man, seperate your politics from your sac huh?!
16 - roger nowosielski
Who acted insulted, Brian. You're imagining things.
17 - alohaitsaj
Whoa, let's tone it down Benjamin. There is a lady present! ;-)
18 - Glenn Contrarian
Arch -
I agree that you need to separate politics from your testosterone. I am quite chivalrous and I've made sure to teach this value to my sons who open doors, carry all the heavy stuff, stand ready to defend, and never EVER raise a hand to a woman. My oldest son made that mistake once - and only once.
Frankly, if you want to see a political difference, see which party supports equality for women, and which party does NOT (you can Google Lily Ledbetter to help you find the answer).
19 - Benjamin
Holy crap! I got my first personal attack deleted! Well it only took me a few years to actually getting to it so....
20 - Glenn Contrarian
Ben -
I normally don't go into the language I used back in my Navy days, but one of the best I heard was "one-eyed purple yogurt slinger".
21 - Benjamin
I will always be a Marine at heart and in mouth.
22 - Benjamin
Glen - awesome!
23 - zingzing
that is disgusting, glenn. disgusting and lovely.
and archie, don't bring politics into everything. and smith is a woman's school, isn't it? you couldn't have gone there anyway. i've been on that campus many times and i've held the door for them, and they seemed to appreciate it as much as anyone else.
24 - Sommerfeldt
Chivalry. I like Roger's word up there in the first comments better - "courtesy". I cook, I do laundry, I clean the place up on my own. I don't have to have a woman do it for me, and I don't expect the little lady I call my woman (actually, I usually call her "babycakes", but for the sake of argument...) to do all those things for me either.
What you speak of as "chivalry" might be dead, but women have no one to blame but themselves. Feminism did actually kill it. I vividly remember opening a door for a woman I did not know in NYC a couple of years back, only to be thanked with a "f-you, sexist" in return.
I'll offer my jacket to a lady, and I'll open doors still, but if this is a requisite for you (article writer) before treating a man with respect, then I see clearly why you think it's lacking in your life.
Respect has nothing to do with chivalry - respect has to be earned, be mutual and be consistent unless the other person does something that robs them of the privilege. The lack of taking on the role as your servant does not count as a reason here, just to be clear.
Chivalry. I say kill it, if it's still moving around. Grow mutual respect and courtesy instead.
25 - djc
"Chivalry is dead. Get over it. Women wanted to be treated as equals, they got what they wanted, now deal with the consequences."
By golly, you answered your own question.