The current issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association contains an article whose headline is:…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
The current issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association contains an article whose headline is:…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments9376 - Jacqui (Australia)
Sia, that just made me feel sick. As I said in an earlier post, I just DON'T GET how a woman would willingly drag her daughter to this crap. I get that they are brainwashed, I get that they are sheep, but don't they listen to that teeny, tiny interior voice screaming at how awful it is and think "NOT for my daughter"? Not having kids of my own I guess I don't understand the whole maternal thing, but still, if anyone ever did anything bad to my niece I would would just go off, so can't imagine FORCING a daughter into something so f*cking awful. Then again, I always listen to that little inner voice/gut feeling, and tend not to be a sheep but a vocal, rowdy ratbag. Like a lion trying to think like an amoeba I guess?
9377 - Jacqui (Australia)
I bet all these same caring mothers would be horrified if their daughters decided to be pole dancers or something. How do they justify it's ok to spread 'em for the pap industry (for free, or worse, having to PAY to be violated), but they can't grind around a pole (showing very much less than what they had for breakfast, and no one gets to shove anything in there), and get paid for it? It's like others have said on this blog and on Yaz's blog among others, girls get told that "nice" girls don't flash the old gash, to anyone, but oh, wait, we all not only flash it, we have sh*t poked in it, and are supposed to feel great about it, proud in fact. WTF?
9378 - Jacqui (Australia)
Oh. My. God. I think we need to weigh in here..I have no words for this
9379 - Torrance * Connecticut
Haley, type in www medsmex dot com They have 13 different kinds of birth control pills; I used to order from them; they are fine. Look in the M section; there is one available for $5.88 per month. I'll be ordering from them again if I get a decent tax refund check.
Also, on Google, type in India pharmacy ethinyl estradiol * that is the chemical name for birth control pills. I have also spent countless hours searching online and would print the entire list of websites I have come up with, but always get my posts deleted when I do. I used to religiously order from a Thai place, but they shut down their website last March * I have five years' worth stockpiled but need 130+ packs to last me through Menopause so I keep buying them every single time money permits.
9380 - Kleigh (US)
Haley, i wear contacts too and every year i have to have an exam to reill my script. I was thinking the other day about how eye exams made since to refeill contacts but the forced pap for pills does not. i dont use bc but it makes me angrey as a woman that pple ie doctors think they have the right to trap woman into having an invasive internal unrelated exam. no wonder so many young girls sleep around these days were told get over it are bodys are not r own we have to submit to paps. well it makes woman feel like theres no need to protect there bodys cus the message is it belongs to the doctors.
9381 - haley
Thank you Torrance! They have the one I've been taking for 30 a month, which is a little more than I'd like but is definitely the best I've seen before. I take one specifically for acne/hair loss so I can't just pick the cheapest. Now at least I know I have a back up if the dr. doesn't work out tomorrow.
I'm afraid that I'm going to be so anxious that my blood pressure will be sky high anyway! I had said on my appointment that they needed to call me to cancel if a pap/pelvic was required, and they just called me to remind me of the appointment today. You leave your phone number in the comment box that I wrote that in, so someone had to see it. I don't think I'm all clear though...they could think I'll change my mind when I get in the office. If I could have taken the phone call in person I would have said it again, but I don't have a job where I can be on the phone and I didn't get the voicemail until 6 pm.
The BC helps irregular periods and cramping too, but I plan to mention NO gynegological symptoms and say that I take the pill for acne only. I am also not mentioining the PCOS.
So wish me luck...if it doesn't work, I plan on walking out and buying the pills online.
9382 - Sue
Torrance that is wonderful, and it is a great idea to stockpile.
Sia I liked your points about how the pap is marketed. All those images of smiling, happy, girls with huge groups of friends. Jumping and skipping, carefree. "Good" happy girls who go with their "good" mothers and partake of pap bonding together. Ice cream, shoes, popularity, happy health - all linked with paps.
What the reality is, however, is somewhat different. They should show some clips from a punch biopsy. Or a young woman who has been traumatized, alone, in shock, stressed, dehumanized, humiliated, etc.
9383 - Jacqui (Australia)
Hayley, I will be thinking of you tomorrow, different time zones, so I will just concentrate on you for the whole 24 hour period. I am sure everyone on here will be sending positive action thoughts your way too.
Sue, I think they should have an ad with a pervy old man wearing a trench coat with a bag of lollies hanging around a school with a speculum hanging out of one of his pockets, perhaps dragging along a "captured" and clubbed baby seal. Then maybe a text box with "would you let HIM near your vagina? What about your daughter's vagina? He's more trustworthy than the pap screening associations and doctors, he just doesn't market himself properly"....
9384 - Jacqui (Australia)
We can call him "Bobby Bean Counter", just for Elizabeth! :-)
9385 - Lemonade
My husband and I were both virgins when we got married. I realised I have HPV when I was pregnant. The only way I could have gotten it, bar my husband lying about being a virgin, is when I had non-penetrating activity with a guy (once in my damn life, but yeah) before I was married.
So go for those pap smears, even if only once every 5 years. That one person out of the 1000 who got saved sure appreciated it I reckon. Plus, its not that bad and only lasts a few seconds.
9386 - Jacqui (Australia)
Lemonade, you are entitled to your opinion, and you are more than welcome to have paps and pelvics if you wish, but it seems glaringly obvious that you have either not read ANY of this blog, and that you have not read any of the medical links that have been provided.
It may not be "that bad" for you, but for many women it is an unacceptable procedure for many reasons, for many women it is excruciating. Pray tell, are YOU going to take responsibility for women who are harmed from these and any follow on procedures? Go off and do whatever is best for you, but don't you EVER presume to tell me, or anyone else to blindly go and have a procedure that is not reliable, safe or proven to save lives, and is very likely to do more harm than good. We are all about research, informed consent and helping each other over here, NOT telling others what to do.
9387 - Mary (Aus)
Lemonade did you have an HPV test or just a pap? An abnormal pap doesn't tell you if you have HPV.
9388 - Jacqui (Australia)
Also Lemonade, you blithely trot out the "one person in 1000" that is helped "?" by a pap smear makes it all worth it. What about the other 999? What do you say to them? Sorry your cervix is trashed and you can't have a baby to term? Sorry you really did get cancer, but multiple false negatives didn't pick it up? I've been through REAL cancer, and I can tell you, 4 months in the hospital having chemo, radiotherapy, and the added fun of the side effects of all that is not pretty. What do you have to say to me about how helpful these tests are? Who is going to give me my quality of life back? Why is it ok for me and people like me to go through this simply because our governments are led by the nose by the pap screening authorities, who refuse to give us the most reliable screening methods? To then find out that these reliable methods have been around for DECADES is unacceptable. Pap smears helped to CAUSE my issues. They certainly didn't help me at all.
9389 - ChasUK
Lemonade, you obviously have not had an abnormal smear/pap test result, yes the first pap may only be a few seconds, yes it may not hurt most, may be just uncomfortable for some, but most and some is not all, please do not presume that it is painless for us just because its okay for you! If you have ever had an abnormal result you would know that it is not quite as simple as you make out, just the result is traumatic enough mentally then there are the following procedures (which I have refused) and they are not quick or painless. Try looking at you tube for videos on colposcopy the next test, then maybe the Lletz treatment and others that they perform, its horrific! Perhaps you should take some time to look back at all the links that have kindly been provided by many others on here! I started from page one, very very alarming, and have followed this site since and every link given. Come back when you are educated enough to actually comment. Oh and good luck if you wish to continue on the "happy pappy train", you will need it! Oh and some advice......never ever tell others what they should and should not do, we are informed men and women, you quite clearly are not, so go along to your test/s consenting without being fully informed of the facts.
9390 - Torrance * Connecticut
Jacqui, Lemonade is probably another doctor claiming paps are fine * and is probably male, to boot!
9391 - Scott (UK)
Hmmm... So Lemonade 'found out' she had HPV when she was pregnant, huh? No truly informed woman would ever allow herself to be cranked & scraped when pregnant.
9392 - Kleigh (US)
Sadly pap smears are part of prenatal care hear in the US. alot of obs will refuse all care until you have a pap even tho false positves are very comon esp at this time. doctors hear have set up a system to trap woman who normaly avoid paps. and also they push pelvic exams on prgnant woman at every visit. most dont ask and test for stds and do paps with out the woman knowlage. its just sick and twisted.
9393 - haley
Well I got a y ear presceiption with no pap but it doesn't look like theyll let me out of it forever. Im on my way to work now so I'll post the full story later.
9394 - Scott (UK)
I'm aware of that, Kleigh, and it IS sick and twisted - but I don't know how you would put an end to such abuse. Doctors seem to be able to do exactly as they want, and even if all women did wise up and refuse, the government would probably override their rights. Because when it comes to healthcare, politicians wouldn't be able to find their own butthole if you gave them a map. They listen to advice from doctors... which means doctors DO have absolute power.
Anyway, Lemonade's 'story' sounds like complete nonsense to me. How did you 'realise' you have HPV, did you get an abnormal pap and just assume it was because of HPV? Dear Lemonade, all of us here know that a) pap testing during pregnancy is a very bad idea because hormonal fluctuations can result in an 'abnormal' result, b) HPV infections are NOT an automatic death sentence and c) an 'abnormal' result does NOT mean you have HPV, it just means you have cell changes which can be caused by all manner of things. Like hormonal fluctuations.
Never ceases to amaze me that the people who are so quick to lecture on the 'importance' of this so-called healthcare are the most ignorant.
Plus, Lemonade, some women find the test painful and humiliating - just because YOU don't have a problem baring your beaver on command doesn't mean every woman is the same as you. And for every woman 'saved', there are many more who go through unecessary procedures. The psychological and physical damage done to healthy women is bad enough.
But... here in the UK, we have a state-run screening program. The government spends an appalling amount of money on the administration of the *system*, financial 'incentives' (bribery) for our GP's (to 'make sure' silly, reluctant women who aren't keen on being fu**ed by a stranger 'comply'), testing, colposcopy, 'treatments', follow-ups and further medical intervention for those who have been scarred - mentally AND physically - by these 'harmless' treatments... while nanny state is attempting to 'save' a small number of women each year, precious funding is diverted away from other areas of healthcare. People are dying because of staff shortages, services being cut, drugs being denied because they're too expensive... so, for every life 'saved' by screening, there may be other lives lost to other diseases and conditions because these programs cost a fortune to run and only benefit a tiny minority.
But I doubt, Lemonade, that you can see the big picture.
9395 - Torrance * Connecticut
Lemonade was probably just a troll and we'll never hear from "her" again. Still think it was a guy getting his kicks.
Haley, that is great and for the next year, until the prescription runs out, you can buy whatever you want online. I'll post all the websites you want; they aren't cheap, but they are reliable and you don't have to see ANY doctors unless you need or want to.
9396 - Eline (Europe)
Women's ignorance and the deliberate misinformation is such a shame. HPV is seen as if it would pose a huge threat to women's health. "I am diagnosed with HPV." Congratulations!
When, in fact, HPV has only been linked to cervical cancer and a long-term HPV infection is only ever a co-risk factor. So is a weakened immune system and smoking. "I am diagnosed with smoking."
9397 - Kleigh (US)
And i hate how doctors make woman feel ashamed and dirty about having hpv on top of scaring the crap out of them. it makes woman blam there husbands and boyfriends for cheating or lieing about sex. i wonder how many marrages this test has trashed. most woman have to idea about hpv est what the doctors want us to know.
9398 - Eline (Europe)
Kleigh, it benefits doctors to have women scared. Women who are afraid are more likely to "accept" cervical (over-)screening. And I'm sure that the vaccine manufacturer highly appreciate the fear and fuss about HPV as well...
9399 - Elizabeth (Aust)
Haley, so pleased you got your script, but isn't it incredible how much stress and planning goes into simply getting the Pill, talk about jumping through rings of fire. The strategies have worked well for doctors over the years, but that all falls away as more women refuse to be treated like medical fodder. My body belongs to me and I have a right to protect myself from unnecessary intrusion and risk...giving us all of the information and respecting informed consent means we can make the best decision....whether that be to screen or not. We're then making the decision, not being processed through screening in complete ignorance.
Jacqui, it's no nice to find myself smiling and laughing...this topic fills me with outrage, but now I have a release valve...you.
Over the decades the throw away lines have always been effective at scaring women and driving some into the consult room...some women worried themselves sick about cc, but they simply couldn't bear the thought of the exam. Hopefully, more of these women are getting to the facts and now have this risk in perspective, if you're worrying about cc, you should also be worrying about thyroid cancer, it's more likely than cc. It's cruel to think some women have lived in fear for years...yet men are not trained to live in fear of testicular cancer? I don't think we live in fear of bowel cancer, yet it's far more likely...that's the point, the fear is irrational. It's the extreme over-reaction to this rare cancer that always puzzled me...until I understood this screening program was inappropriate and should never have started...it couldn't work with informed consent. I could also see the powerful influence of paternalistic and vested interests who seized and embraced this program. Anyway, throw away lines are now viewed by more women as predictable and insulting responses from people who know no better or who speak to women in this way to further their own interests.
How many women or doctors worry about thyroid cancer? The routine neck examination is not even recommended...because it would result in lots of unnecessary surgery and the comment is often made, why worry people about a rare cancer? Over-diagnosis would be a major problem with thyroid screening, yet this problem was hidden from women in breast screening. We focus the most resources and apply the most pressure to screen for a rare cancer...and that testing causes huge over-treatment.
So, acceptable for women, damaging our bodies en masse, but common sense prevails with other rare cancers...and even common ones, like prostate cancer.
9400 - Susanne (USA)
Interesting -- and aggravating! -- bit on CBS News' website about a new Consumer Reports study that determines which cancer screening tests are unnecessary and which three are "essential." Naturally, two of those three "essentials" are paps and mammograms and the other is for colon cancer. Prostate screening is on the "don't need" list. Funny how prostate cancer is said to affect and kill about as many men as breast cancer does women, yet screening for it is deemed unnecessary and not altogether beneficial. Makes ya wonder, doesn't it?
9401 - Susanne (USA)
I guess it's OK for the medical community to frighten and bully women into screening tests that may not be all that reliable, either. Sure makes me angry to see stories like that one from CBS News.
9402 - Elizabeth (Aust)
What is unacceptable to the medical profession for men, is acceptable to them for women? A clear double standard at work....
This advice is even more alarming when you know breast screening benefits very few (if any) and leads to significant over-diagnosis. The NCI have said they find it hard to recommend mammograms in light of the evidence.
Also, we know only 5% of women aged 30 to 60 are HPV+....these are the only women who have a small chance of benefiting from a 5 yearly pap test from 30 to 60 or until they clear the virus. So most women are not even at risk and cannot benefit from pap testing...yet they would have us test every 2 or 3 years for most of our lives with the high risk of over-treatment/excess biopsies KNOWING we're not at risk and cannot benefit from testing and certainly don't need these treatments. What does that say about the medical profession?
9403 - Elizabeth (Aust)
And don't try to tell me you're being cautious and still reviewing the evidence...if that's the case, get rid of the incompetents and bring in some doctors who have no trouble seeing and acting on the evidence.
We have a brochure that gives women all the information they need to make an informed decision about breast screening, yet....have women been provided with a copy of the NCI summary? Of course not, we've asked Cancer Australia to redraft the brochure...we see time and again these groups struggling to produce a brochure that "appears" to inform, but never presents the facts in a clear, complete and unbiased way, they have to work around the program...that means continuing to mislead women. To think most must agree this is an acceptable way to treat women. It also shows how much faith they have in the programs when concealing and manipulating the facts is their main concern.
9404 - haley
So here's how my appointment went today:
So I went in and the nurse told me that she had "just seen" my comment about how I wasn't coming for an exam. Her first comment was to tell me that I didn't even need to come in, and I could just transfer my prescription. Then she said, "Wait, you are caught up on your pap smears right?" So I just said yes, I was. The problem then came when she said they would need to transfer my records over to make sure I had a pap on file. I told her I hadn't been to a regular dr. in awhile and that the records would be old. I didn't know what else to do so I told her I had chosen to only screen every 3 years. She came back and said that I should still get the exam this year, because for people 25 and younger it includes STD testing. I told her it was non-negotiable and I absolutely would NOT be getting an exam today. She kind of balked at that and said "Well we're not going to force you dear." Then she admitted I could do the STD tests through a urine sample. She ignored my comment that people not having sex cannot possibly have STDs (all 25 year olds must be sleeping around, right?) but if they want me to pee in a cup, fine.
So I went into my spiel about how I had no risks, the exam is very traumatizing for me, and it has nothing to do with birth control, etc. etc. The nurse actually said I was right about false positives and that's why they changed their screening to every 2 years. She went back to talk to the dr. and said since I was in a low-risk group she could agree to every 3 years for me.
She asked me when my last pap was and I said 2 years ago (it was actually almost 3), and she said that was fine but I'd have to come in next year. The dr. gave me a prescription for a year, but the nurse I was talking to said that my other records would have to be on file for them to refill it. I believe my last one was actually March or April of 2010. The problem with my insurance is that they also have their own pharmacies and you can only use them, so I can't just take the prescription to some other pharmacy and fill it. I'm afraid they'll see when my last exam was and refuse to refill the prescription. I ran right down to the pharmacy after the appointment and got 2 months worth (the most they would agree to give me at once) so I have something in case they won't give me anymore. It was free with my insurance, and the nurse actually got me a refund on the appointment since I didn't even see the dr.
So it wasn't perfect but at least I got some of the things I wanted, and every 3 years is a lot better than once a year.
I also made another appointment right after that one since I was already there to talk to a regular dr. about some sleeping issues. I noticed they didn't have me fill out any forms and didn't mention pap smears at all. They didn't even ask me the standard "do you drink, smoke, wear a seatbelt" etc. questions. She just let me talk about what I was there for and prescribed me something. That was at least nice to see too!
9405 - Alice (Australia)
Jacqui, I really loved how you called the pap-crap PAP INDUSTRY and PAP FACTORY in your comments. So hilarious, and so true! You have a great talent for naming things for what they are.
Also, I really liked the comment #9394 Scott (UK) wrote. Pretty much sums up my thoughts.
9406 - Jacqui (Australia)
Thanks Alice, but I am not sure if they were my comments or not? Been writing stuff in a sleep deprived haze the last week or so!
I too have been meaning to say a big fat thank you to Scott for his fabulous comnments. He joins my other boy heroes - Hex, Graeme and Rob!
9407 - Jacqui (Australia)
Alice - oh yeah, I did do pap industry on this page!
Hayley, I am so glad that you got your prescription relatively unscathed, but what a big fat run-around to do so. If you were a bloke there wouldn't be any of that. Just a straight "OK" after you said NO to paps the first time. No having to explain yourself, no having to quickly make up a convincing sounding lie, no having to belt down to the chemist to get SOME pills now in case you get... *GASP*..... found out for the pap avoiding, trouble making, ill informed rebel that you are.
Shits me to tears. Why oh why in this day and age do women have to revert to this sort of subterfuge, and stress to simply go to the f*cking doctor to get some f*cking medication that we NEED/WANT. (Note - if I was saying this instead of typing it, I would be starting off in a normal tone of voice and be ending the sentence screaming my head off with rage)
9408 - Sue
Hayley thanks for sharing the experience. Good job with all of it and they certainly don't make it easy to keep your knickers on. What I find most chilling is how it was pushed, even after filling out the form declining a pap, AND after telling her you were up to date on paps:
"She came back and said that I should still get the exam this year, because for people 25 and younger it includes STD testing. I told her it was non-negotiable and I absolutely would NOT be getting an exam today. She kind of balked at that and said "Well we're not going to force you dear." Then she admitted I could do the STD tests through a urine sample."
Plus it was only after you said how traumatic the exams were for you, and remained firm, that she admitted you didn't need an exam but could just submit a urine sample. Unbelievable. Now after all that you are still worried because they only gave you two months worth of pills.
They are basically treating women like walking STD carriers. They have replaced paps with STD testing in younger women. They were not concerned about STDs when women flocked in for paps at a young age. Now that the screening age has been raised to 21 in the U.S. (25 in Canada) they have replaced paps with STD testing. They were not concerned with STD's prior to the age being raised. Now they have started pushing STD testing as "routine" and as a "requirement". There has been the usual fear mongering and convincing people they are necessary. And of course they claim a pelvic exam goes with it - but NO - they can simply use urine/blood. Men are only required to submit urine/blood for the exact same tests. So creepy.
Jacqui, Chas, Scott, Torrance, Eline, great job with the lemon troll. And Jacqui I loved your description of Bobby Bean Counter!
9409 - Elizabeth (Aust)
It sounds like someone trying to get away with something, like tax evasion, not a woman who simply wants the Pill. Incredible that women are made to feel like criminals if they don't want cancer screening or choose to follow another program.
An elective screening test for women is now an expected part of every woman's life whether she wants it or not...are you due, up to date, we can allow you to go 3 years...how is any of this appropriate for cancer screening? It seems many doctors are still linking excess and screening with the Pill...they've gotten away with it for decades, so it will take some time to change attitudes. Every woman who rejects coercion and pressure (by any means) helps to break down these attitudes.
I wonder with all that's been reported by the American media over the last year or so...whether more women will feel confident to fight the system...whether that's refusing excess and coercion in the consult room, lodging a complaint, shopping around for an ethical doctor etc...hope so. I can see why many women get their pills online and avoid the hassle and stress of the consult room. Haley, pleased you got your Pills, but no woman should have to jump through unnecessary hoops just to get her Pills. It certainly illustrates how the system controls women and forces them down the screening chute... informed consent for women is light years away, when consent itself is usually ignored. Of course, we don't see Viagra being used to force men into excess or optional extras...you're due, we can let you go 3 years etc...the old double standard.
9410 - haley
Yeah I was telling my best friend about the three years thing and she said her office agreed to let her do paps every 3 years, but she still has to do the pelvic exam part every year to get her BC.
9411 - Jacqui (Australia)
Haley, I just went outside and got on the forklift and did a burnout, then dropped a pallet of TV's into a massive metal bin. I was soooooo angry at your last post. (Sorry, not angry at you, just at your friend's doctor) WTF? Shove your pelvic where the sun doesn't shine Mr. Doctor.
9412 - Jacqui (Australia)
Oh, the TV's were dumped ones for recycling, not new ones. Just thought I better let you know that in case you were all horrified and wondered why so many new TV's have "issues" when you get them home! Although there are probably heaps of angry forklift drivers that work at electrical retailers anyway! :-)
9413 - Elizabeth (Aust)
How big of them to let her off with Pap tests every three years, but insist on pelvic exams every year to get her birth control...can't these doctors read? How many times do they need to be told, routine pelvic exams are unnecessary for the Pill. More than that, they're desperately trying to hang onto that revenue, but the routine pelvic exam should be scrapped, it's harmful. Your friend should send all of the recent articles on this subject to her doctor and say that naturally in light of this concerning evidence, she won't be having routine pelvic exams in future.....do they plan on holding her pills to force her into an unnecessary exam that carries high risk? That might make them uncomfortable...a patient who knows the risks, knows the exam is unnecessary...is more likely to take action if she ends up having unnecessary surgery etc. Women have so much ammunition now and should use it. I'd be sending a letter with attachments ahead of my next appointment....give them plenty of time to read all of those articles.
It's a horrible and unnecessary intrusion on the female body that does nothing more than harm and worry women.
9414 - Kleigh (US)
From what I understand when the pill came out fiminists pushed that all woman have acces to pap smears. and so they wanted the pill to be tied to the well woman pap exam , to make woman take there health seriosly. i think thats when paps almost became a law with doctors. Haley, i hate that they dont even ask just asume all woman are having sex in a sertain age grup and need std tests. its violating and offensive. Thats the problem i have with doctors and this test how invasive it is and how they do not think woman have a choise. its sexist and they dont want woman to know that you can test for stds with urin beacuse they wish to charge for pelvic exams. How dare they make this test mandentory for unrelated pills.
9415 - Torrance * Connecticut
All women would benefit from buying their birth control pills online. If every woman did this for one year and the doctors lost that much revenue, they couldn't do their perverted exams any longer. I hate the whole mess and arguing with doctors who refuse to LISTEN. I dread America suddenly demanding that all people show proof of exams, especially women, or else they'll be fined with that horrid new health legislation.
Jacqui, that forklift you use really cracks me up. My cats just "killed" a large television at my house; would you kindly drive your forklift over there and dispose of it? It's too heavy to lift. Thanks.
9416 - Kleigh (US)
I think alot of pple are scared of ordering pills online esp from other countrys. doctors are comming out scaring people not to order from other countrys. I wonder if woman boycott doctors and refuse to submit for pills , this might stop or make them give woman a real chiose about paps when they show for the pill. I have heard the goverment is trying to crack down on over seas meads. and alot of woman think they will die with out paps that is one of the problems with changing the system that demads woman have paps. And Torrance i am scared too it whould not surprise me one bit. look how the meadical comunity already thinks it owns womans bodys i whould not put it past them to put laws into place to for all woman to have paps they could say that it could cut down on cost spending mony on cancer if woman caght it erly.
9417 - Judy (US)
I am so pleased to have found this website. After having bad experiences with doctors years ago, I have long suspected that many of them, especially gynocologists, are basically con artists who rely on women being meek, unquestioning "good girls" to go along with whatever invasive exams, procedures and surjeries they suggest. As a result, I haven't stepped into a doctor's office in many years. There is such intense pressure here from all sides (the media, insurance company mailings and robo calls, other women, you name it) to have mammograms and "well woman" exams that I really feel sometimes like not participating was my "dirty little secret." It really does makes you feel almost like a criminal. Now that I'm over fifty I would like to have a few things like a blood pressure check, cholesteral test, etc. but just can't deal with the patriarchal, oppressive attitudes that are still so prelevant. It truly is a sad state of affairs and makes me so angry that is has to be this way. It's wonderful to have found this community of like minded, intelligent people and I feel so validated and much less alone in this now. Thank you all for being there!
9418 - Kleigh (US)
Judy, I understand when you say that you feel like a "criminal" for not haveing these exams. I am 28 and i dont go to a gyno or have paps. I keep it to my self only close famely knows like my aunt who told me she refuses paps and mamograms because she thinks its all about money. its as tho its unheard of for woman to question or refuse these tests. and doctors demand we have this done to us. It never made since to me pushing symptom free woman to have invasive vaginal exams and going looking for "pre cancer". I know my own body and i dont need a doctor to invade it every year looking for problems just because i am a woman. I know males that have had testical infections problems but no one ever sugest men have tests done on there genetals. I do think when the pill came out is when all this pap wellwoman crap started. it was a way doctors could use womans bodys for profit.
9419 - Kleigh (US)
And I have been scolded by a woman nurse, when she found out that at 24 i had never had a pap smear. womans rights dont seem to be respected. and how is leep bbqing a woman cervix going to keep her healthy? sadly most woman have no idea how barberic the follow ups are.
9420 - Jacqui (Australia)
Torrance - you know I'll be right over with my trusty forklift to get that tv for you! The mood I'm in with all these doctors forcing exams on women though, you will have to watch out for my potty mouth!
Judy - Welcome, I am so glad you have found us and have a chance to vent, to get REAL information and to be supported. No "just suck it up", "It's part of being a woman", "if you're mature enough to have sex, you're mature enough to have paps", "do you want to get cancer and die?" etc etc etc over here.
9421 - Sue
Judy, welcome, and I can certainly relate to the feeling of being a criminal also. I often feel "hunted" for my income generating reproductive organs.
Sia, and the rest of you inspirational commenters, I have taken some of our ideas and created a new post that links the happy, carefree, "good" girl images used to promote pap tests together with the reality.
9422 - Kleigh (US)
Sue. I think the cone biopsey should be made illegal. there are woman that have almost dies from this. it is inhuman and barberic. no doctors tell woman about false poitves and what the follow ups are. its a shame.
9423 - Sue
Kleigh I agree it should be illegal. I was shocked to see what actually happens. It's no wonder women can't stop bleeding afterwards and sometimes need a blood transfusion, or need to be recauterized. And of course they are going to have problems with birth/pregnancy. Chrissy mentioned the cone biopsy here a while back. Which reminds me, I haven't seen Chrissy post here in a while. Chrissy, I hope everything is okay.
9424 - Jacqui (Australia)
Wow! A doctor stating that you don't need a pap to get birth control. Somebody slap me!
you don't need a pap for bc
9425 - Jacqui (Australia)
Time to contact the NSW government for the last sentence in this article. At least we're not as badly off as the USA, but my God, I wanted to smash the person's face in when I read that sentence. abortion laws in oz