Yesterday’s ruling by a Federal judge in San Francisco (upholding one’s right not to use of the words “under God” while reciting “The Pledge of Allegiance”) doesn’t affect if I do or do not say the words “under God” in “The Pledge of Allegiance.” Even if this ruling had gone the other way, I choose to say these words as a Catholic; however, that is my particular choice. The actual usage of the phrase is not mandatory, nor should it be. What is at issue here is separation of church and state, not just two little words. While their inclusion in “The Pledge” is not in itself religious, the connotation certainly indicates a united faithfulness. Looking at America in 2005, I see a very different place than when the words were inserted into “The Pledge” fifty plus years ago.
Every day millions of American school children start their schedules with “The Pledge of Allegiance.” As a former teacher and school administrator, I can honestly say that during every morning that I was in front of a classroom (or at the podium before an assembly where “The Pledge” is commonly used to start programs) that I could not be certain that every student was reciting the entire thing. What I mean to say is that unless I went down the aisle and stood next to every child, there would be no way to know if he or she included “under God” in the recitation. I think that is an important thing to note, for any child can be taught to eliminate those words or substitute something else: “under Allah; under Creator; under Shiva,” etcetera.
In church on Sunday I have encountered this kind of thing. During the “The Lord‘s Prayer,” I have heard people (mostly women) insert “mother” into the prayer. In the unifying and communal act of prayer in congregation, people are exercising their rights to say, “Our Mother, who art in heaven; hallowed be thy name.” I never react to it or feel offended by this alteration in the prayer; the change of the words does not harm me as a Catholic or cause me to question my faith. In fact, I actually revel in our American freedom to be individuals, to think and act in a way true to our feelings and beliefs.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Nancy
As with so many issues, lots of shades of grey. Good post. Thanks.
2 - Natalie Davis
Thanks for giving notice to peer pressure in schools. Kids used to beat the crap out of me regularly because I refused to say your pledge at all. I certainly find "under God" offensive, but for me the primary issue is keeping church separate from state overall -- and enforcing people's right not to recite the damned thing at all.
3 - hifi
Nicely said.
The main problem with the Pledge is that it is NOT PATRIOTIC ENOUGH. If some people feel that the religious language of the Pledge does not represent them and so must abstain, then the practice is not serving it's purpose, which is to affirm national unity.
This is particularly unfortunate in the school room where patriotic kids who are abstaining for reasons of conscience are being left out. They can't do it at home by themselves. The exercise of patriotism is about community. These kids are essentially being discriminated against when they can't join with their fellows.
But if we can't have a government sponsored activity that includes everyone equally (a religiously neutral one that supports all worldviews), then let's have a separate but equal policy and give every student the same opportunity to stand and profess their own patriotism and belief. In other words, at least let these kids ride on the back of the bus. Right now, they don't even get to get on, but must watch from the sidelines with their desire to exercise their patriotism neglected.
4 - Ed Myers
Patriotism is honoring the Constitution. Flag adoration is idolatry. So let's replace "I pledge allegiance" with "We the people..." from the preamble to the Constituion.
5 - Dave Nalle
I like my idea of replacing it with "We hold these truths, etc." from the Declaration of Independence - way catchier.
Dave
6 - Ederlore
I was eight years old when we had to use "under God" when doing the pledge. I couldn't see the logic of it then nor do I now. Granted, I wasn't brought up in a church-going household but I couldn't understand what God had to do with the flag. When I pledge my allegiance I do it to the Constitution not a flag. Too many people have lost the concept that the flag is a symbol not the substance of our country. Today, many would choose to destroy that substance to save their version of the symbol. Every country has a flag but, not every country has a Constitution like ours. I don't say "under God" because it begs the question of "who's God?" Do I believe in a higher intelligence? Yes, but I don't feel I have to pronounce that fact to the world simply to prove that I'm a good, patriotic American.
Mike Newdow doesn't want to remove the pledge he simply wants to restore it to the pre-1954 version and I agree. Check out his website
7 - Anthony Grande
If you do not want to say Under God in the pledge then simply do not say it. If you want to give the pledge and don't want to say Under God then say the pledge without it.
At my school when we say The Pledge of Allegience, the same 4 kids sit down. They have every right to do this and know one questions them.
Why must you pigs take that away from the rest of us (the far majority) who are proud to say the our nation is "One Nation Under God"???
8 - RogerMDillion
Then how about we take it out, restoring it to its original form, and if you want to add "Under god," you can.
Same thing.
9 - Anthony Grande
You are right it is the same thing, but guess what: We are the majority and you are the minority so you are the one who has to take it out.
We don't got to kneel down for atheist idiots like you.
10 - Lee Richards
A.G.--
Does God tell you to call other people pigs and idiots or is that your own idea? And if you think minorities' rights don't matter, consider this: Christians are a minority in the world!
Since you mention your school I assume you're a student. I hope you're learning the most important lesson of all:to think for yourself.
You have every right to your opinion. But an opinion without strong reasons to back it up is worthless. The best question you can ask to help find reasons is WHY? Why should I believe something I'm told or have read or heard? Why should I listen to authority figures, etc., etc.
When you look at possible answers to that question, you may discover some GOOD reasons for your opinions and beliefs.
Insults and name-calling won't ever convince anyone;using your brain might.
Carpe Diem
11 - Bushwacker
Anthony
You use so many big words in your posts that when you run out of them, you resort to calling names which by the way is not NECESSARY (look it up in the DICTIONARY). 2 big words and I have more if it would be PRUDENT.
12 - Lyrical Reckoner
When the Supreme Court ruled that Michael Newdow lacked standing in his previous suit RE the Pledge of Allegiance, Newdow promised us it wasn't over.
Will the matter go back to the Supreme Court? Will it even make it back to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals? Will the appeals court reiterate its agreement with Newdow? Who knows?
But, let's look to the future. Suppose it goes all the way to the Supreme Court and that court says the Pledge is just fine as is. Then what?
Here's what might happen
13 - Victor Lana
Thanks to all of you for your posts. What I would hope for is intelligent and repectful discourse on this or any subject. What I mean by this is giving the other side the opportunity to propose its points without being subjected to ridicule. That kind of thing is not collegial or anything close to it.
Why do we have to regress to playground language? It demeans the argument someone is trying to defend. I understand this is a sensitive topic, and I tried to deal with it accordingly in my post.
Again, thanks to all for commenting.
14 - Joey
If my theology indoctrination to Hebrew and early Christian scriptures serves.... the people of "The Way" aren't supposed to swear blood oaths, or oaths anyway... in other words it's against scriptural principle to "Pledge Allegiance" anyway.
In fact, demanding people to enact a Pledge to anything or anyone is against the Word of God.
Surprizing turn of events. Those desiring to erase the pledge out of public schools are actually doing stupid Christians a favor.
I wonder if those responsible for the act of brotherly protection even realize the implications of preventing their "brothers" from stumbling or striking "his" foot against a stone (causing one to sin).
15 - Anthony Grande
"Christians are a minority in the world!"
Since when have Christians been is this conversation??? Did I say anything about Christians??? NO, Did I ever say I was Christian??? NO
What Religion doesn't believe there is a God??? Who are we offending??? Do you know this isn't about Christianity???
What more reasons do I need to back it up then that the far far far far majority of people are proud to say that this truly ONE NATION UNDER GOD???
In a different matter, Christians are NOT a minority.
16 - Matthew T. Sussman
Can little kids just sing "The Preamble" in the same verse as Schoolhouse Rock did?
Because that's the only way I know how to remember it!
17 - DrPat
In a pie chart labelled "Religious Adherents As a Percentage of World Population in 2000", the percentage of Christians in the world is given as 33%.
That's one-third, certainly a minority in any book.
18 - Anthony Grande
So by your standards every Religion is a minority. There are more Christians therefore Christians are not the minority.
Everyone here exept the small small small small small number of Atheists believe that we were created by a God.
19 - gonzo marx
and ocne again, Ant G is proven factually incorrect..this time by DrPat and a pie chart
and yes Ant, we don't get french benefits
Excelsior!
20 - RogerMDillion
"Did I ever say I was Christian??? NO"
Less than 24 hours ago
Comment 98 posted by Anthony Grande on September 15, 2005 02:30 AM:
I do not regulary pray, I haven't been to Church in 10 years and I still know that God exists and Jesus died for our sins, and because of this I consider myself a good Christian. (bold mine)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA