Because 23% of Americans claim to be Catholic, it should be made crystal clear what excommunication actually is. Some look at excommunication as a thorny punishment from the Catholic Church. It actually is a medicinal penalty that is compulsory to help the sinner repent and turn back to God.
The Church fervently hopes that the former Catholic changes their ways, and returns to “communion” with the rest of the Church. Unfortunately, the 2008 US elections showed a true differentiation.
The mind-boggling part was that fully 54% of American Catholics voted for the party that espoused abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, and same-sex marriage. Cloning during this administration seems a likely probability too.
The items in the above paragraph are the five “non-negotiables” that exist for any Catholic. A “non-negotiable” is an intrinsic evil every time – that is, an act to which evil is essential or inherent, such that no exceptions exist.
Voting for the Democrats was voting for a new heath care system that would have abortions take place as health care. Their vote included embryonic stem cell research (ESCR) – but not adult stem cell research (ASCR). ESCR has produced tumors in experimental animals, and for human research it requires the death of a young human being.
Only one candidate advocated using amniotic, umbilical, and “pluripotent” stem cells, which do not involve killing a young person. And she was only a vice-presidential option.
For Catholics, all issues do not have equal weight, and abortion and euthanasia are at the very top of the priority list – no issue is higher. Therefore, any Catholic voting for a candidate who endorses most (or all, in this case) of the non-negotiables is de facto excommunicated by their own actions from the Catholic Church.
When confronted with this idea, some alleged Catholics become obstinate, agitated at the Church, and even more obtuse in their thinking. Other Catholics understand that this is a method the Church uses to pull them back into the Faith. Understanding this, they will start believing what a true Catholic actually believes.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Al Barger
This article is CRAP!!! The author appears to think that words have meaning and ideas have consequences that have to be followed through. I am Deeply Indignant that someone would think that a Catholic has to believe in anything in particular. I think I should be able to be a Catholic without having to believe in the Resurrection or anything it says in the Bible.
The author should quit being such a bigot.
2 - Baronius
Canon Law #915 applies to those who are "obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin". I don't think that applies to someone who votes once for a pro-choice candidate. If you vote for a pro-choicer because of his stand on abortion, then yes, that's serious. But if you vote in spite of his position, because of some other concerns which outweigh it, and you seek to mitigate the impact of that position through petition or activism, that could be OK.
When would such a vote be acceptable? Maybe when a corrupt pro-life candidate is running against an honest pro-choice candidate for State Treasurer. I don't see how a Catholic could justify a vote for President Obama, though.
3 - Ruvy
Aw, come on, Al. You may have studied theology and all that, but all this guy Kevin wants is for Catholics to act as they say they should act. It's kinda like asking a Jew to keep kosher and keep the Sabbath.
Now, the Catholics do have a mechanism to kick Catholics out of their church (I wish we had something like that), and they do use it from time to time. It's called "consequences", Al, for not walking whatever crooked line the Vatican deems to be the straight and narrow.
Now, it's not for me to argue with Catholics over their religion - it is their religion after all, and they are welcome to it. Catholics can come on here and blow their own horns on why they think their daughters getting an abortion should not bar them (the daughters, that is) from Mass or Communion. It's none of my damned business. But don't get mad at poor Kevin here. He's having enough trouble distinguishing betweeen the effects of estrogen on men and how it is that men are homosexual and not heterosexual.
Give the poor guy a break!
4 - Kevin
Al--Sorry, you want to be Catholic? You have to believe in certain things.
5 - Kevin
Baronius--You don't know how many so-called Catholics make that same mistake. The highest priority issue is abortion, with euthanasia a close second. The pope even reiterated that. And, if you vote for a party that espouses all five non-negotiables, I won't say what you're in for at the end of your life.
That's between you and your Maker.
6 - Kevin
Ruvy--I'm kind of surprised you would even comment on this, not being a Catholic and all. And it seems as if you didn't even read the definition of excommunication either.
By the way, can you think of what might happen to your soul after physical death?
7 - Ruvy
I'm not all that worried about the definition of excommunication, Kevin. It ain't my problem. But my reason for commenting was to do you a favor and point out what you really want to do - get Catholics to act the way they say they should act and understand that there are consequences for not doing so. I've seen your problems clarifying issues elsewhere, and wanted to save you some trouble.
As for your question, "can you think of what might happen to your soul after physical death?", it is a matter that does concern me. Enough that I follow several blogs dealing with the issue, I've written an article on that very issue here at Blocritics Magazine, Life After Death; Scientific Evidence for Death as the Beginning of a New Stage of Life - Dr. Gerald Schroeder at the Israel Center, 1 July 2004, and if you are interested, can recommend you to a You Tube video dealing with just this topic by a man who died on the operating table and came back.
Lemme know.
8 - Kevin
Ruvy--I would say that what you pointed out was pretty close to being right.
Even though life after death 'concerns' you, do you really believe in it? If you do, then you must believe in a God. If you do, then it's imperative you believe in the right one. If you do, then you would have to think the right God left us some kind of instructions on how to get to the proper afterlife.
Better than what you said, I can recommend reading from several people who've been to heaven and hell, and back. I can recommend the right God, with the right instructions on how to get to the right afterlife.
Are you game? Lemme know.
9 - Ruvy
Kevin,
Lose the sales pitch. It gets you nowhere with me.
When the Redemption comes, non-Jews who can't hack what is going on are going to be in a very difficult mental spot. Those of you who can comprehend what G-d wants of you will have an easier time than those who deny the Divinity altogether.
I'm your elder brother in faith, Kevin. Remember that. If you survive the Redemption, your road will get closer to mine (provided I have survived as well - an assumption I do not make), not the other way round. The goal is not to convert you to be a Jew. The goal is for you to decide, on your own, that you love the L-rd with all your heart, all your might, and all your soul, and that you want to follow the Seven Laws of Noah - fully.
That's it.
If you can hack the First Cut of Divine Judgment, you'll get further instructions on how to proceed - or you will be guided on how to seek out those instructions.
In the meantime, the Redemption hasn't occurred yet; and you can argue about excommunication all you want with those to whom it matters.
Just keep in mind what I've told you. The clock is ticking....
10 - Baronius
Kevin, you talk about "the" five non-negotiables. Certainly, the things you mentioned are intrinsically evil, but so are some other things like incest and genocide. It's not like there's a list of five issues upon which every vote must be decided. A person can acknowledge that without dismissing the gravity of supporting a pro-choice candidate.
Additionally, I'm afraid that you may have muddled the issue by slipping a reference to the condemnation of socialism into the article. A pure atheistic socialism is alien to Catholicism, but the Church likewise condemns atheistic capitalism. A person may approve of President Obama's social justice policies (I don't) without supporting, say, cloning.
11 - booniesboy
Al:
Re: "The author appears to think that words have meaning and ideas have consequences that have to be followed through."
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." (John 1:14)
A life lived without meaning or consequences already has begun the hopelessness of hell. Meaning comes to fruition in the eternal consequences of spiritual sloth.
Perhaps another worldly statement might be of interest:
In the movie, "A Thin Red line' a similar statement was made: 'Tomorrow we may die; so let's eat, drink and be merry today.' The hero replied, "If tomorrow we die, then what we do today may be more important than we realize."
The horror of free will, unchecked by moral certitude, is that it can condemn us. God respects our free will so much that we can choose to be parted from Him forever.
12 - Dr Dreadful
Kevin @ #4, Booniesboy @ #11:
Sarcasm detectors for sale here! Going cheap! Made in China!
...
...oy vey...
13 - DM Reed
Al is obviously being sarcastic; he agrees with the author. Why is that not blatently obvious to everyone else?
14 - Dr Dreadful
I don't know, DM, but I've had no takers for the sarcasm detectors.
Think I'll put 'em on eBay...
15 - Baronius
I assumed that Al was being sarcastic, as well. But I've heard similar statements made in all sincerity.
Dread, be careful. If a person's bad enough at deciphering context, he might try to purchase one.
16 - Kevin
Boon--More power to you. I have that same quote by JOHN on a t-shirt that I wear all the time. I think I need to see a Thin Red Line now.
Ruvy--If you thought that was a sales pitch your not out in left field, you're off the field.
It's very difficult for me to believe that being a non-Jew is a problem. Christ was a Jew, for heaven's sake. He's not now.
It sounds as if you believe in an antiquated faith now. The redemption has already occurred, unless you're willing to tell 200,000,000 Christian Americans that they're somehow deluded.
If you're so convinced you're right, someone or something convinced you. How do you know they're right?
Maybe you forget that Jesus actually expanded on the laws that Moses had. That He was the only one who actually said He was God and proved it.
The clock might be ticking for you, but not for God. Time is a non-existant dimension with Him. He already knows your eternal outcome. But you don't. Obviously...
17 - Kevin
Baronius--Incest and genocide may be evil most of the time. But they don't fit the 'intrinsic' label.
We're talking FIVE intrinsic non-negotiable evils here. With abortion being at the TOP of the list, NO ONE should support a candidate who espouses five non-negatiables.
Condemnation of socialism is right up the correct alley. Because of socialism, you're voting for 5 non-negotiables.
Anyone approving of Obama's social policies has no idea what "priorities" are.
You didn't vote for Obama, did you?
18 - Baronius
Kevin - I've never heard that there are Five Intrinsic Evils. I want to see a reference on that. In opposition to the idea, let me site a passage from Veritatis Splendor. It's a bit long, but it's so on-point that I can't resist:
Reason attests that there are objects of the human act which are by their nature "incapable of being ordered" to God, because they radically contradict the good of the person made in his image. These are the acts which, in the Church's moral tradition, have been termed "intrinsically evil" (intrinsece malum): they are such always and per se, in other words, on account of their very object, and quite apart from the ulterior intentions of the one acting and the circumstances....The Second Vatican Council itself, in discussing the respect due to the human person, gives a number of examples of such acts: "Whatever is hostile to life itself, such as any kind of homicide, genocide, abortion, euthanasia and voluntary suicide; whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, physical and mental torture and attempts to coerce the spirit; whatever is offensive to human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution and trafficking in women and children; degrading conditions of work which treat labourers as mere instruments of profit, and not as free responsible persons".
19 - Glenn Contrarian
WAITAMINNIT!
Kevin, did you just say that genocide, while evil most of the time, is not intrinsically evil? Please explain how genocide is not intrinsically evil.
That's one thing I like about the Church of Christ of which I am a member - if someone does something evil, which includes pretty much all felonies and many misdemeanors (including simple adultery), they're expelled from the Church. Of course they can return and are not prevented from doing so.
Now why should the Church be so strict? "Expel the wicked from among you", the Bible tells us. Jesus said, "How can you say you love me, yet do not do what I say?" That should be the standard.
On abortion - we inside the Church do not support it. However, we do NOT judge those who DO support it. Why? Apostle Paul said that he judges those inside the Church, but not those outside the Church.
So to Kevin - do you stand outside bars keeping pregnant women from drinking alcohol? Ever seen what happens when a child has fetal alcohol syndrome? I do - one of my Foster children has it, and he costs the taxpayers a quarter million dollars a year.
If you say you're against abortion because killing children is so evil, IF you are so very PRO-life because life is indeed so precious, then you should also be patrolling against pregnant women who drink or do drugs, and you should be especially against ANY kind of war. AND you should be absolutely FOR strict gun control. AND you should be absolutely against the death penalty.
Need I go on? Dude - if one compares His words to political doctrines, then Jesus was most certainly a liberal.
20 - Glenn Contrarian
Ruvy -
Since we're talking about the value of life here, why is Israel restricting access by Palestinians to WATER?
It can't be because there's not enough water to go around, because:
"In an interview with CNN, Amnesty researcher Donatella Rovera said a drive through the Palestinian West Bank shows the striking disparity in water use, with "Israeli settlements with vast, green, well-irrigated farms and swimming pools and right next to them, Palestinian villages which are absolutely parched.""
21 - Clavos
Doc,
The problem with your sarcasm detectors is they're Chinese made.
They work fine in Chinese, but can't understand English, Brit, or 'Strine, though the Taiwanese customers do seem to be satisfied with 'em.
22 - Glenn Dallaire
Given all the press on the issue of Abortion and the teaching of the Catholic Church, we can assume that most every Catholic knows that abortion is a serious evil which constitutes a mortal sin, and because of this should never be supported.
And, given that abortion is a life and death issue, it obviously takes precedence over all other issues, such as the economy, social security, healthcare reform etc...
A Catholic who votes for a candidate such as Obama who has a public voting record 100 percent in favor of abortion automatically excommunicates him/herself in light of Canons 1398, 1364 and 751, which addresses automatic excommunication for those procuring or promoting abortion and also excommunication for those who deny a formal teaching of the Church.
The exception would be if one was ignorant of the Catholic Churches teaching on the matter, but it would be almost impossible for a Catholic to claim that they are ignorant of the Church teaching against abotion, given all the news coverage on this topic over the past 3 decades.
Glenn Dallaire
-Webmaster of the St Gemma Galgani and St Paul of the Cross websites
23 - Glenn Contrarian
Glenn Dallaire -
So, um, what's the pro-life RCC's stand on capital punishment? It makes sense that if one must be excommunicated for voting for a pro-choice candidate, one must also be excommunicated for voting for a pro-death-penalty candidate. After all, life is life, whether inside the womb or out.
24 - Baronius
Dallaire - Like you, I can't conceive of a situation in which an issue would take precedence over abortion at the presidential level. However, I don't believe that Canon 1398 would apply to those who vote for a pro-choice candidate, but only to those who directly procure or assist in an abortion.
25 - Baronius
I did some looking around online, and apparently the idea of Five Non-Negotiables stems from the Voter's Guides published by Catholic Answers. But Karl Keating, the founder of Catholic Answers, says the following: In brief: Our voter's guide mentions only five non-negotiable issues because that's how many such issues are "up for grabs" nowadays.