The Mystery of Kwanzaa - Comments Page 2

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• 26 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 11:22 am

  It's an African-American holiday. You can read about it here.

• 27 - andy marsh

  Dec 20, 2004 at 11:36 am

  Thank you bhw - and Merry Christmas!

• 28 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 12:50 pm

  You are friggin' annoying.

• 29 - andy marsh

  Dec 20, 2004 at 1:00 pm

  Now, THAT made my day!!!

• 30 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 1:38 pm

  I can tell by all the exclamation points.

• 31 - andy marsh

  Dec 20, 2004 at 1:47 pm

  Is that part of what annoys you??? What can I say bhw, my fingers stutter now and then!

• 32 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 2:11 pm

  Teasing, Andy.
  
  Relaaaaaaax.

• 33 - andy marsh

  Dec 20, 2004 at 2:45 pm

  I'm relaxed...I'm always relaxed...it's my fingers that get worked up now and then!

• 34 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 2:53 pm

  I really don't like to hear men talk about their fingers that way.

• 35 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 4:01 pm

  Walt, get a life, dickhead.

• 36 - Eric Olsen

  Dec 20, 2004 at 4:26 pm

  I learned most of the facts in the USA Today story in a much more compact and entertaining form when Tim Meadows sang about it on SNL with Vanessa Williams (and another woman I can't place) grooving the back-ups.
  
  And as far as Karenga making the whole damn thing up - why not? the test is not whether or not someone makes up a holiday, it's do people respond, and if they do then it must have served some purpose or struck a chord of some kind.

• 37 - Eric Olsen

  Dec 20, 2004 at 4:32 pm

  I found the transcript here

• 38 - Eric Berlin

  Dec 20, 2004 at 4:35 pm

  I agree with Eric -- there are no standard criteria for the institution of a holiday.
  
  Example: As a Jew I theoretically celebrate the fact that a candle that was supposed to burn for one day burned on for eight.
  
  Now: I'm working on a Joss Whedon Day. Anybody who's with me better hop on board pronto.

• 39 - Eric Olsen

  Dec 20, 2004 at 4:37 pm

  E, I'd say that 8-day burning candle thing was rather noteworthy, bearing in mind the laws of physics and whatnot

• 40 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 5:01 pm

  Joss Whedon day would be great.
  
  What would the celebratory rituals be?

• 41 - Eric Berlin

  Dec 20, 2004 at 5:21 pm

  For sure there would have to be some kind of incantation/ritualistic/paganistic circle involved. If you watch enough Angel and Buffy, you see about 700 of these.

• 42 - Andrew Ian Dodge

  Dec 20, 2004 at 5:39 pm

  BTW tomorrow is the Winter Solstice.

• 43 - Eric Berlin

  Dec 20, 2004 at 5:46 pm

  Eric - Sure, the candle was noteworthy. My only point is that there's no rule. Arbor Day celebrates the trees, Chanukah the eight-day candle, we all know the Story of Christmas, and on and on.
  
  So really, Festivus from Seinfeld was a great model.

• 44 - bhw

  Dec 20, 2004 at 6:16 pm

  Did you see this story in the NY Times about where Festivus really came from? The father of a writer on Seinfeld.
  
  "It was entirely more peculiar than on the show," the younger Mr. O'Keefe said from the set of the sitcom "Listen Up," where he is now a writer. There was never a pole, but there were airings of grievances into a tape recorder and wrestling matches between Daniel and his two brothers, among other rites.
  
  "There was a clock in a bag," said Mr. O'Keefe, 36, adding that he does not know what it symbolized.
  
  "Most of the Festivi had a theme," he said. "One was, `Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?' Another was, `Too easily made glad?'"
  
  His father, a former editor at Reader's Digest, said the first Festivus took place in February 1966, before any of his children were born, as a celebration of the anniversary of his first date with his wife, Deborah. The word "Festivus" just popped into his head, he said from his home in Chappaqua, N.Y.
  
  The holiday evolved during the 1970's, when the elder Mr. O'Keefe began doing research for his book "Stolen Lightning" (Vintage 1983), a work of sociology that explores the ways people use cults, astrology and the paranormal as a defense against social pressures.
  
  Festivus, with classic rituals like familial gatherings, totemic-but-mysterious objects and respect for ancestors, slouched forth from this milieu. "In the background was Durkheim's `Elementary Forms of Religious Life,' " Mr. O'Keefe recalled, "saying that religion is the unconscious projection of the group. And then the American philosopher Josiah Royce: religion is the worship of the beloved community."
  
  

• 45 - Eric Berlin

  Dec 21, 2004 at 12:48 am

  Great story regarding Seinfeld and Festivus.
  
  To go even further off-topic, did anyone see the Seinfeld retrospective special on NBC several weeks ago? Usually this kind of soft-glow "a look back at..." treatment is bile-inducing, but this one was very interesting, and even funny. Interviews with Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld about the early days, the incarnation of the then cutting edge format, and early struggles were fascinating to anyone interested in writing or story development.
  
  Eric Berlin
  Dumpster Bust: Miracles from Mind Trash
  http://dumpsterbust.blogspot.com

• 46 - RJ

  Dec 24, 2004 at 1:16 am

  I recently purchased the first 3 seasons of Seinfeld in DVD. Classic stuff!

• 47 - Natalie Davis

  Dec 24, 2004 at 2:31 am

  Gotta love that Kwanzaa Timmy.
  
  Thanks for posting the transcript, Eric. Brought back a memory of a huge laugh.

• 48 - Eric Berlin

  Dec 24, 2004 at 4:02 am

  Festivus seems to be catching on slowly but surely...
  
  http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/23/xmas.festivus.ap/index.html

• 49 - Eric Olsen

  Dec 24, 2004 at 12:28 pm

  you're welcome Nat, glad it brought back a chuckle
  
  I think Festivus is powerful because it sounds like something that must already exist, ie, it was found rather than made up
  
  I did a story on Winter Solstice and the shared traditions of the winter holidays here

• 50 - Dan Hartung

  Dec 24, 2004 at 12:34 pm

  Well, I've heard a bit about this "Christmas" thing here and there, so I decided to ask one of my Jewish friends about it. "Christmas? I don't know that much about it," he told me. But Christmas is about the birthday of a Jew! Obviously, if the Jews don't know much about it, it's completely made up and the people who are celebrating it are seriously deluded.

• 51 - Phillip Winn

  Dec 24, 2004 at 2:29 pm

  As Dan implies, it's a bit early to judge the success of Kwanzaa. I'm a little bummed about such an exclusive holiday, but I suspect that if Kwanzaa survives over time, it will be come much less exclusionary than it is now, just as many/most/not all of our current holidays have.
  
  I doubt we'll ever get days off for it, though, unless they start giving out Columbus Day holidays again.
  
  /me shudders

• 52 - //kikbwoy//@!

  Dec 24, 2004 at 4:25 pm

  Do African Jews celebrate Kwaanzakah?
  
  
  
  
  
  

• 53 - Victor Plenty

  Dec 24, 2004 at 5:37 pm

  Hey, let's all celebrate a Merry Chrismukkwanzule, combining secular observances of Christmas, Hanukkah, and Kwanzaa with the neo-pagans' Yule festival.
  
  That last bit is not just more political correctness. It anchors the whole thing to a real seasonal event in the physical world, namely, the winter solstice. The solstices and equinoxes undeniably happen every year to everyone, regardless of culture, philosophy or belief system.
  
  Of course, some will say any social or spiritual significance we attach to the winter solstice is still entirely "made up," but at least the time for celebrating it can be determined by objective scientific observation.
  
  Except of course when the astronomers inform us that the solstice doesn't always occur on the same day, and sometimes doesn't even fall within a single day, but stretches across two or more days that can all equally be considered the "shortest day" of the year.
  
  Which just goes to show that no matter what we do, people inclined to argument will always find something to argue about.
  
  Meanwhile, as they say in India, Happy New Year!

• 54 - Oooga Booga

  Dec 12, 2005 at 3:45 pm

  This is just a made-up holiday, which in my opinion, only promulgates more separatisms. Now Blacks have their "Christmas", not the white one.
  
  Pure rubbish - started by a convicted felon, btw.

• 55 - Lono

  Dec 12, 2005 at 3:54 pm

  Actually, Happy Holidays is out too. Turns out it is 'Americanist' and lacks compassion for depressed people.

• 56 - Natalie Davis

  Dec 12, 2005 at 4:06 pm

  Big deal (about the felon rumor) and baloney (about the rest). Kwanzaa is not a "black" Christmas - it has nothing to do with Christmas. If you were to ask people who celebrate Kwanzaa - and they come in all hues; there is no exclusive "club" allowed to celebrate it - most would say they celebrate it in addition to Christmas. The holiday is about inclusion, not exclusion. Of course, you are whining about it being a made-up holiday, so obviously you didn't read the essay or the comments or you would know that *every* holiday/observance is made up in some sense.

• 57 - twa

  Dec 13, 2005 at 11:23 pm

  Kwanzaa, at least, isn't being merged with some other holiday...yet. Chrismukkah my ass. What bullshit. There is no link between the these two holidays nor should any be made. It's a gimmick, and not a subtle one, reflecting Jewish media power centered in Hollywood. How many Jews are there in the U.S.? 8 million? How many Christians are there in the America? At least 150-200 million? Why isn't someone at the Christian Science Monitor calling the Holidays "Hannuistmas"? What a load of crap...

• 58 - Natalie Davis

  Dec 13, 2005 at 11:50 pm

  "Happy Holidays is out too. Turns out it is 'Americanist' and lacks compassion for depressed people."
  
  Now *there* is an idea I can support! Good one.

• 59 - Purple Tigress

  Dec 13, 2005 at 11:53 pm

  I did indeed know what Kwanzaa was and I was once invited to present my cultural celebration of the New Year along with a black woman who explained the significance of Kwanzaa.
  
  Some religious groups and organizations celebrate unity amid diversity, however, this is only possible in a loving and accepting environment where one knew one wasn't going to be belittled.
  
  So I do know that Kwanzaa is not a religious holiday and the woman in question does not celebrate Christmas because she and her family is not Christian or Jewish. She celebrates it to embrace her heritage in the same manner that I celebrate New Year's in January to celebrate my cultural practices and then again in March (religious New Year's).
  
  

• 60 - jackson

  Apr 28, 2008 at 10:49 am

  what is this stuf

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