On this date in history, May 13, 1917, three shepherd children from Fatima, Portugal have their first vision of Mother Mary, beginning the Miracle of Fatima.
These visions continued over some five months, leading to "the Miracle of the Sun" involving some kind of odd solar event.
This phenomenon seems particularly noteworthy because I can't understand it. The Catholic church has long since accepted the Fatima visitations as actual miracles. Not being religious (as the term is usually understood), I have no convenient pat explanation.
I'd like to discredit these children, and dismiss it as fantasy. That doesn't really work, however, in that successive parts of this phenomenon were viewed by thousands of people. There were as many as maybe 70,000 folks gathered for the Miracle of the Sun. It stretches credulity to try to convince myself that they were ALL hallucinating.
I'm sure there are rational scientific explanations for all of the Fatima phenomena, perfectly good explanations that don't involve ghosts and gods and such. Right?
![Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima [VHS]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KPTYD44AL._SL120_.jpg)
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Sam Leach
It's one thing you suggesting an `unexplainable phenomenon' may have occured. But the young girl had said before it happened that the Lady in White promised her there was going to be a Miracle. How would she know that??
2 - Al Barger
Yes, it's a significantly mysterious phenomenon. It COULD be that it was a miracle from God, or some kind of naturally occuring psychic power of the girls, or lord knows what.
My main point here, though, is that even as a religious skeptic I can't dismiss strongly documented phenomena simply because they don't conveniently fit into my worldview.
3 - Eric Olsen
Good for you: skeptical even of skepticism. Everything in moderaion, even moderation, which means you can binge from time to time.
4 - Tom Johnson
What would be pertinent to know is if this phenomenon was visible to others outside of the area. I realize that 70,000 people witnessed it, but I'm assuming they were in the immediate area. I only ask this out of curiosity, because there is simply no way that many people could hallucinate the same thing. Were they hallucinating, they'd all have seen different things - cats dancing with mice, flying Cheez Nips, Police made of hamburgers, leiderhosen-wearing ducks, for example. What did people 20 miles away see? I'm assuming nothing, in which case the people gathered had a shared vision and nothing physically happened in the real world. Yes, pointing out the obvious, but it's in order to show how very odd this is, indeed.
5 - Jack
If you are an atheist or merely a rational person, then you have to reject the "miracle" theory. If you reject the miracle theory, then some other theory, regardless of how unlikey, must be true. Even though it's hard to believe 70,000 people could have had similar hallucinations, this is the least improable rational explanation. We know from the historical record that many in the crowd were staring at the sun. Getting your retinas burned can explain why the sun seemed to move and dance in the sky. If you combine this mass hallucination with the power of suggestion (such as lots of people saying they see the sun move), then it's possible that everyone would come to agree that that is what happend. I don't believe there are any credible reports of anyone seeing the sun move who wasn't in the crowd that day. People in nearby towns weren't staring at the sun and weren't susceptable to the power of suggestion like the people in the crowd were. Also the people in the crowd were hoping to see something, and had strong religious faith. All this adds to the power of suggestion. So it's conceivable 70,000 faihful believers could have all had a similar self induced experience. I realize this explanation is not perfect. Does anyone have a better one?
6 - Edward
On Jack's theory..
The Sun miracle was indeed observed in nearby towns. This is a text from an anti-clerical and masonic newspaper reporter.
Being a natural scientist and physician myself, I can't imagine any materialist theory to explain the sun-phenomena of October 13th 1917.
It is ridiculous to deny these occurences just because you can't explain them in a scientific fashion. Remember: a theory can never be proven, only be dismissed if it violates the facts.
You can't prove the validity of atheism or rationalism, so you don't have to reject that a miracle took place. Otherwise, you would base your verdict on materialist dogmatism.
I am not a Roman Catholic, not a Christian, not a Mason, rather a Pagan. But I do take the Fatima Apparitions seriously.
7 - Nancy
I've always been intrigued by this one. And as the old saw says, 'for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible, for those who do, no explanation is necessary'.
8 - alienboy
I share Mr Barger's skepticism, but even if this event actually happened, and there is no reliable evidence of that, to put any spiritual significance to it is surely wishful thinking.
Jack's explanation in Comment # 5 is plausible
9 - Edward
You should not put a spiritual significance to the Fatima sun miracle, but rather consider the possibility. To believe that a miracle happened is a strictly personal conviction, an internal feeling that may be hard to explain to others.
From a scientific point of view, we are dealing with an observation (localized to about 600 square miles) that cannot be repeated or studied again. As such, namely as "single event", it cannot be a subject of modern scientific study. Attempts to "explain" such singular phenomena afterwards - as "sceptics" usually try to do - belong to the realm of pseudoscience if the basic requirements of scientific research can no longer be met.
Wishful thinking is very common, even in academic circles, leading to a virtual world in accordance with preconceived ideas. Realizing at least that the real world may be somewhat distinct, would be a major step forward.
Again, there is no valid reason not to consider the possibility that the Fatima Apparitions and the sun miracle were genuine manifestations of "spiritual order". I don not say you should believe them to be.
10 - Dek Nasty
Fatima. What a joke.
I suppose that the next thing your gonna tell me is that you need to pray to Mary.....who was JUST a woman who DIED...just like the rest of us. Blessed woman-yes, very much so. Diety that should be prayed to? - not unless you want to end up in hell for praying to a false God (those are HIS words, not mine).
Ever take the time to examine the Catholic faith? I did. Extensively. Frankly, because I WAS a catholic and had questions. So, I did a bunch of research, and found out that I spent the first 26 years of my life living a lie, being decieved. The catholic is a HUGE bunch of CRAP that must just infuriate God. How do I know this? I know this because I KNOW the heart of GOD, because I took the time to read His BOOK! If ALL catholics would READ the freaking book, not the "catholic Bible", but a regular King James bible, NONE of them would BE catholics! Trust me, I was one, then I read the book TWICE for myself, cover to cover, and came up with the conclusion for myself: that the church is a fraud and that (probably) most catholics, as sincere as some of them are, are NOT saved according to HIS word.
Want a little proof?
Try this on for size;
Acts 2:38 states that, among a couple of other things, you must be baptised in Jesus name to be saved. If you use a concordance, you will find that the word "babtize" means "to submurse in water". When I was baptised in the catholic church, they "sprinkled" water on my head and said "in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit...." What the HELL is THAT?? As you can see in the book of Genesis, God is a stickler for doing things CORRECTLY, and does not give any room for leeway. I was never submerged at my catholic baptism, nor was the words "in Jesus name" used. So, according to GOD (the only one that matters) I WAS NOT baptised!! Thus, according to his word, NOT SAVED!!!
Think I'm an idiot?? READ THE FREAKING BOOK!!! FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF! The bible says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Don't rely on some child molesting preist!!
PLEASE, if you sincerely love God, and want to be saved, DO SOME RESEARCH AND GET INTO A BIBLE BELEIVING CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!
11 - Edward
The pity of it ! The Orthodox Catholic Church baptizes by total submersion. Which is, by the way, only the beginning of salvation.
Although pagan, but very well informed about the book and the various Christian creeds, I don't like to offend them. Yes, there are differences and sometimes polemics, but that is not a reason to insult each other.
12 - Dek Nasty
Edward,
It really wasn't my intent to offend anyone. I'm just a zealot now that I learned that I was deceived for so long by the catholic church. It pains me, really, that soo many people are taking for granted their salvation because of a church leadership that is misleading and misinforming them. It's just so sad, that it makes me very angry.
ps. quit being a pagan and get on the bandwagon. Time's a runnin out, and you obviously know that.
13 - Dek Nasty
It's a bunch of crap.
It was a vision/shadow of a tall, slender white woman with western features. Any idiot knows that Mary WAS NOT a white, western, slender woman. She was dark, short, with chubby facial features, as are ALL Jewish women of that time. Just like the catholic church has statues of "Jesus" in every church, portrayed as a tall, slender, white male, with feminine features andlong, stringy hair like a chick. Any idiot KNOWS Jesus DID NOT look like that, either. He was probably DARK skinned, short, and Jewish-looking.
Please see my previous postings re: the catholic church.
14 - Al Barger
Alienboy, there IS significant evidence of some very unusual, inexplicable phenomenon. This wasn't some alien seen by one lone drunk cracker in the piney woods. There were THOUSANDS of witnesses.
Dek, you got no room to knock the witnesses of Fatima. It may or may not have been the virgin, but again thousands of people actually witnessed something with their own eyes.
This would be as opposed to you believing in the Bible, which events you certainly did NOT witness. And why would the King James version be presumed right, and the Cat Licker version wrong?
Something happened there, some really freaky stuff that we don't have any explanation for. I'm not presuming to offer one. Nor is this going to make me believe in Jesus. It would take a LOT more than this story to cause me to believe in ghosts and goblins and miracles.
15 - alienboy
Al, I'm sure you're as familiar with the phenomenon of mass hysteria as I am.
Until I see a way more reliable form of evidence than personal testimony, I'm going to rank it with such other fables as the parting of the Red Sea or whatever.
If you want to believe that something happened there, you go ahead and make that choice, but I'm still siding with the skeptics on this one.
16 - Edward
Dek, I appreciate your reaction.
However, to suggest that the Catholic Church has deliberately deceived you with the intention to prevent your salvation goes much too far. The Catholic creed is not based on the Gospels alone, there is much more to consider, like tradition, the writings of the so-called churchfathers and philosophical studies about interpretation. The same applies to Judaism and Islam as well, not to mention many, many other religions not originating from Judaism.
The King James Bible is just a translation of the Septuaginta and so is the Catholic Canisius version; neither of them can be considered to be perfect because translations can't be, especially not if the sources are of remote date and the idiom is not fully understood anymore. It is not only a matter of symbolism or realism, we often simply don't understand what they intended to say.
Most interesting about the Fatima Apparition is that the description given by the children is that of Our Lady of Roses, The Joyous, completely in white (as confirmed by the Apparition in october 1917). Her skirt, full of golden embroidery, was very short, to the knees. She was wearing a golden necklace and tiny golden earrings, but instead of shoes white socks. Needless to say this is quite contrary to the religious pictures and even very indecent in 1917. Regarding the serious messages, the Church would expect Mater Dolorosa, The Sorrowful(blue cloak), or even Our Lady of Carmel, The Glorious (in carmine robe). Our Lady of Roses, in a white cloak, is really paradoxical in this context.
In spite of this obvious deviation of established doctrine, the Catholic Church declared the Apparition to be "worth of credence" (i.e. not at variance with the creed). Most apparitions are not recognized thus.
17 - diana hartman
i wouldn't be so quick to say that 70,000 seeing the same thing makes it real or that 70,000 people couldn't have hallucinated (or believed they saw) the same thing...
what magician was it that made the statue of liberty disappear? and how many thousands of people saw it disappear even though it didn't?
i'm not saying fatima was the work of a magician necessarily but the idea that so many people saw the same thing is no reason to dismiss the distinct possiblity that what they saw wasn't real...
18 - EZ
So God says to himself, Ok about 70,000 is a good number, let's break out the miracle! You like that? Who wants to sign up for this religion now! Best recruitment trick ever.
All in all, it doesn't really matter if it was a real miracle or a mass hallicination, maybe it got a couple thousand people to stop being jerks for a while...
19 - diana hartman
All in all, it doesn't really matter if it was a real miracle or a mass hallicination, maybe it got a couple thousand people to stop being jerks for a while...
for a while? that's no way to run a religion...might as well break out a bunch of kilos of pot and a vat of oreos -- same effect and just as temporary...
20 - Edward
The message of Fatima has nothing to do with conversion to the Catholic faith, with alleged condemnation of political systems other than liberal democracy.
The Apparition demanded from the Roman Church:
"The consecration of Russia (Russian Soul) to My Immaculate Heart - as free of sins - in order to save the world" What does that actually mean ?
It implies that all the bishops (including the Pope) should in fact declare the Orthodox as the true Catholic Church. The Apparition demanded that the West should denounce itself. This message outraged the Vatican and the Western allies of the World War. They tried to keep the message secret, to corrupt it and to play it down - they still do.
The three so-called Secrets are all dealing with Russia, both in a prophetical and spiritual sense and unmistakingly condemn the West.
Whether you like it or not.
21 - Michael J. West
Believe it or not, Dek Nasty, having once been a Catholic and no longer being one does NOT give you carte blanche to belittle the intelligence and judgement of the millions of people who do still follow that faith. Implying that the Catholic Church is not a Bible-believing church is just silly, and having studied the KJV and several other versions of the Bible (there is, btw, no ONE Catholic Bible), I can say that the King James is no more precise or sacrosanct than the other versions. (Why would the best version of a 5,000-year-old text in ancient Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek be a 400-year-old English translation?)
22 - Michael J. West
Having said ALL of that, I'm also a former Catholic (now a Unitarian Universalist). I'm not sure what to think about Fatima either. (And I even went to Our Lady of Fatima Catholic Church when I was a kid.)
Jack in Comment 5 has an interesting theory, but I have one big argument to it: out of all those 70,000 people under the influence of burnt retinas and power of suggestion, you'd think there'd be ONE witness to eventually shake it off and say, "It was just hysteria. Nobody saw what we thought we saw." To the best of my knowledge, nobody ever did.
Even the hardest scientists accept the idea that some things have no apparent explanation. I think the rest of us can, too....
23 - Edward
Nobody knew in advance what kind of miracle would be shown. One of the children, Lucia, pointed to the southern sky, that's all. The sun's altitude was about 45 degrees, but there was a heavy overcast. How could they know the perception of the sun would be altered ?
I'm almost sure all those faithful Catholics expected to see the Lord in Heaven (Revelation, countless pictures in religious books)....
But it was a humble, almost extinguished sun in distress, wildly swept around and even thrown down for a moment. Disappointing for the faithful, but very frightening for the Masons present (unless you know about Freemasonry and their fear for the "Widow", the Queen of Heaven, you won't understand this). And all the masonic-liberal newspapers in Portugal therefore honestly reported what ominous phenomenon they had seen.
The Church was much more reluctant, because they are always afraid for "satanic tricks". The sun miracle had no specific meaning for them, but they soon understood what was shown.
Consequently, neither the Church, nor the anti-clerics, dared to ignore and ridiculize what happened in Fatima.
24 - Reena
What I am wondering about is where are the 70,000 personal testimonies about this miracle. How do we know there were that many people there? How do we learn about Fatima in the first place?
How do we know there weren't people there who did not see a miracle?
And what about the visions the children saw, did anyone else see them? When were the prophecies of Fatima disclosed? Were they disclosed BEFORE the events they supposedly predicted? (A significant length of time before when it could not have been reasonably predicted that the said events would take place?)
I am inclined to believe that there was no miracle at Fatima, I think if something as big as that was witnessed by such a large number of people, it would have been more noticed by the rest of the world.
25 - Bruno
If a miralce WERE to happen, what would it have to be? As to making the STatue of Liberty disappear, is that not what the people were led to believe would happen? Apparently no one at Fatima had a clue what would happen. // I would, howver, be curious to know "how we know 70,000 people saw this", "what records were made" etc. Who controlled all that?