Jenna Elfman and her gnomish husband wig out over anti-Scientology shirt.
This is the fruitiest story to go down in celebrity annals in some time. According to the world's most prolific and omnipresent celebrity website TMZ, indie film director John Roecker caused outrage, shock and horror when he donned a piece of anti-Scientology apparel while walking in L.A. last weekend.…
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76 - seventy-five
wow.
the idea of a god that is not in yourself leads to worship of a secondary charactor in your life.
who's in charge?
77 - Marc
Ok 76, if you must know who is in charge of my life, it is myself. I used to be Catholic until my former church took such a harsh stance on homosexuals, among other things. I don't believe Jesus ever turned anyone that loved him away. Anymore I consider myself more spiritual than religious. I have found that having a group belief in an ideal can unite people but religion tends to divide people. Again, the only point I was trying to make was that people of all religions have their stories which shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value and these 'sources' can be seen as absurd from one who was not brought up to believe them. I am no longer a puppet of the Pope. I cannot believe a faith that excludes any single person for a personal choice they make. Nor do I think a person should follow a church's doctrine without first questioning it's credibility. Apparently, some Christians are just as touchy about their bibles origins as Mr. Cruise is about his religion. Anyway, to reaffirm I am in charge of me. And I feel closer to my god than I ever have before. Thanks for asking.
78 - Scott Butki
aRGH. Make that Dawn is a good writer. She may be a good reader too but it's hard to determine
that from my vantage point.
79 - Dawn
:) Scott, I knew what you meant - and I am not nearly that great of reader - I am a bit dyslexic. Perhaps Scientology could solve that for me, like it did TOm.
Thanks for the comment either way :)
80 - Alvin Scotworth
A religion is just a cult plus time, and money.
81 - nugget
alvin scotworth:
what's a "cult" without time and money?
82 - Alvin Scotworth
Short lived.
83 - Jerry C
The first ever piece about Scientology, then known as Dianetics, appeared in an issue of Astounding Science Fiction circa 1950. Editor John W. Campbell was pushing Dianetics as he later pushed an anti-gravity device (the Dean Drive) and a whole batch of other crackpot pseudo-scientific ideas. He had also published much of Hubbards science fiction in his fantasy magazine Unknown Worlds and in Astounding SF. I heard the story separate from three of the people present at the time that after WW2 a bunch of New York sf writers including Frederick Pohl, Theodore Sturgeon and Judith Merrill, most of them recently discharged from the military, came back to civilian life they and Ron Hubbard were sitting around talking about how to earn a living, since it wasn't in those days possible to earn a living writing for the sf pulps. They all agreed that the best thing to do was to found a pseudo-scientific 'religion', base it in California and sit back and rake in the dough. As Merrill said to me '...we all thought it a swell idea, but Ron was the only one of us who actually went off and did it'. The first e-meter, used for measuring 'engrams' (bad stuff messing with your head), I ever saw was an old ex-military lie-detector with a different meter pasted over the old one. You were asked very emotive questions like 'do you love your father' and the meter, activated by involuntary tension in your hands, would register how many engrams you had that had to be cleared. Even in those days 'auditors' were making a lot of money with this bizarre mixture of pseudo-science, pseudo-Freudianism and that old-timer religion. Some of the people I've known have not been exactly dumb, but strangely unimaginative, so that all this sf stuff seems amazing to them. I suspect people who have left one paternalistic religion (like Judaism or Catholicism) are drawn to Scientology as a substitute for what they're missing. The made-up, essentially abstract, vocabulary makes it harder and harder for them to come to grips with reality and so they cleave more and more to the very thing which is causing their dysfunction.
84 - Jerry C
Should have checked that posting first -- I heard the story SEPARATELY. I'm not that illiterate, even if I do leave out apostrophes sometimes.
85 - Max Seltzer
The author incorrectly implies that Scientology was the reason why Mimi Rogers and Tom Cruise broke up. Not true. Mimi Rogers was, in fact, the one who introduced Tom Cruise to Scientology, and they still remain in contact. She is no longer an active member of the Church, but she is still a committed Scientologist.
86 - Ferdinand Featherstone
Scientology and Christianity may both have bizarre premises but Christianity lets you know theres the second you walk in the church. Scientology continues to lie about the Xenu stuff, though they have shifted the direction of the lie since the cat got out of the bag.
Hubbard said, "There was no man on the cross". His sacred scripture says that Christianity is an "implant", a form of insanity. In that context how bad is it to call Scientology gay?
Can I criticize Jim Jones and the People's Temple? Can I criticize those Hepplewhite and his followers who lopped their balls off before committing suicide so they could go to the Flying Saucer hiding behind the Halle-Bopp comet? How about the Branch Davidians? How about the Taliban? But I am a bigot if I say something against Scientology because I criticize what some say is a religion.
It is a broad subject and it can't be discussed well in this forum. Go to xenu.net if interested.
87 - Joey
"the idea of a god that is not in yourself leads to worship of a secondary charactor in your life.
who's in charge?" 75 in #76
& to add to #77
"When you bow down before the Lord and admit your dependence on him, he will lift you up and give you honor." James 4:10
It's called Faith.
88 - Christopher Rose
And faith is another word for con trick...
89 - Marc
I do agree with you Joey, it is called faith. It is your faith in the good book which gives you strength, the same way as my faith empowers me. And while I don't necessarily think faith is a con trick (see 88), I do think it is faith which enables many people to get taken advantage of. I think any church which would take a stance against a certain people who love their savior and exile them from their church are manipulating the blind faith of those still in the church into unquestioned obedience. It is a dangerous game to mix politics with religion and it is one I choose not to play. It is good to have faith in things Joey, but is it really safe to let an organized religion dictate that faith?
90 - Joe H.
I find it humorously ironic that due to the current keyword content of this blog, the Amazon products displayed are mostly PRO-Scientology/ist. Isn't the internet funny...
91 - sal m
no discussion of the superstition known as scientology would be complete without a mention of the movie battlefield earth, which is possibly the worst movie - and biggest box office bomb - in the history of film, and makes plan 9 from outer space look like the godfather.
hubbard and his eye-patch are co-writers of this travolta movie that was so bad the empty seats in movie theaters around the country got up and walked out.
travolta played terl - should have been terd - the leader of something. the costumes, sets, plot, dialog, acting are horrendous...if you've seen any of this movie, you keep waiting for an episode of mystery science theater 3000 to break out.
travolta co-produced this pile of excrement because of his affiliation with the hubbard-helmed superstition.
at best this movie looks like the worst of the worse 1980s coke fueled MTV hair band videos.
oh yea, and F-Jenna Elfman and her husband, whoever THEY are...
92 - nugget
hahahaha.
93 - Joey
Marc, I'm not a fan of denominationalism, or religionism either. It pidgeon holes people and in many instances is removed from the Word which invalidates the religion/denomination and their "theology."
Mr. Rose: Faith as a con trick? If you are conned by faith, then one is conning themselves. Faith comes from within. You don't get faith from any other source than your own convictions.
People can practice religion, churchianity... but faith is the internalized summation of many things, not just a sermon that you half listen to once a week or 4 times a year. Sitting in church, shaking the preachers hand on the way out to the parking lot... won't get you anywhere.
I think you may mean religionism, or something akin to a denomination. But faith is like love. It's a strong desire.
94 - Marc
Joey, I agree that a person's faith comes from within. But I don't think the formation of one's faith is automatically there. It is indeed taught or at least guided at a younger age. Can you imagine being a Muslim? The answer is probably the same for a young man living in Saudi Arabia, where practicing Christianity is forbidden. It has a lot if not everything to do with how one is raised. I would imagine a typical person has their own mind set about their religion by the time they are out of adolescence but I cannot help but think that these people are still influenced at least in some way by external factors. What do you think?
95 - JoeH
Yeah, it's very hip to trash Scientology and Tom Cruise these days, but I'm getting off this bandwagon. There are plenty of cooler topics to cover-- and worse people to bash. It's not like Tom Cruise pounced upon poor little Brooke, with a bomb strapped to his chest, or Jenna Elfman is out there on the loose, knee-capping guys for wearing the wrong t-shirt. What a non-story anyway.
I hope Tanya Harding feels safer knowing that nobody's ever accused her of being a Scientologist (Scientologists are probably likewise grateful for this.
If I were to wear a "Ben Roethlisberger is Retarded" t-shirt on the streets of Pittsburg, I'd have a helluva lot more to worry about than any damage Jenna Elfman could inflict upon a grown man, even if HE were a gay man.
Please excuse any insensitivity on my part.
96 - Bonquilonious Bagwhistle
Sal M you are a riot.
97 - Tom
It seems to me if they consider scientology a religion then they should be able to take criticism. Look at what christianity has had to put up with over the centuries. Now the christian religion has as I understand it the opposing religion of satanism. So I propose the creation of a new religion in opposition of scientology. I'll call this new religion FICTIONTOLOGY.
A few rules for fictiontologists:
1. You may not charge anyone for joining or participating in fictiontology. Fictiontologists may make donations.
2. Fictiontology is opposed to scientology.
3. Fictiontology does not endorse any type of violence.
4. Fictiontology accepts that aliens may exist.
5. Fictionotology does not accept aliens relationship with mankind in the manor that scientology would have people believe.
6. Fictiontology believes in the existance of multiple realities.
7. Fictiontology believes dreams are windows into these alternate realities.
8. Fictiontology believes that the origin of mankind was GOD. God is from not just any alternate reality, but is from the prime reality. From the prime reality god dreamed of this universe, its galaxies, solor systems, worlds, and of life. Thus, we exist in an alternate reality from the prime reality. We exist as long as God dreams we exist.
9. Those that die may have their soul move on to another alternate reality. If ones soul becomes more pure from its exitance it will be reborn in a reality closer to the prime reality. Eventually, a soul that truely becomes pure will be reborn in the prime reality.
98 - Solivagus
IMHO:
Most religions have at their core some values which are generally good for civilization. The golden rule, turning the other cheek, etc. Apart from the general bizarreness of Scientology (see the definition of engrams, for example), it teaches its adherents that they should respond to criticism by attacking - fight on someone else's home ground, lest your own furniture be broken. Travolta defended this attitude with "it's the law of the jungle". Apparently the law of the jungle is something Scientologists aspire to! L. Ron Hubbard (I distrust people with single-letter names) also taught that a lawsuit was a weapon of intimidation. They attack psychology and especially psychiatry for a couple of reasons; 1) they represent ideological "competition", 2) if you're against something that seems more immoral than you, you look good by comparison (L. Ron jumped on the anti-communist bandwagon a bit himself in those days). I'm not sure they succeed by the latter reason. They also use hypnotic techniques in their indoctrination (Hubbard studied hypnosis).
They have their own vocabulary so that insiders feel like they share a secret with others, which reinforces the group bond (like a secret decoder ring or the Masonic secret handshake). They refer to their techniques as "tech" and use galvanometers (e-meters), and even started putting "MD" after their names (for "Master of Dianetics") so that people feel smart and savvy. They also indoctrinate people with the bizarre stuff slowly; once you find out how loopy it really is, you've sunk lots of money into it already and if you were to think about how goofy it is you'd experience "cognitive dissonance". Nobody likes thinking that they've been duped, and probably people would tend to accept Scientology in preference to admitting they've made such a big investment in swampland. At least, they might stop going and keep their embarrassment to themselves. And finally, L. Ron Hubbard might have been a paranoid schizophrenic who had such bad experiences with the mental health system that he codified hatred of it in his doctrine. He certainly exhibits some of what I'd call magical ideation.
I had a pair of friends who were majoring in psychology, and they had a friend who became a Scientologist. He started to attack them verbally every time they were over visiting his roommates, and generally became so unpleasant they had to start avoiding him.
Apart from the negative social value (if we respond to attacks with counterattacks, where does the fighting end?), I'm dubious about the wisdom of always attacking your enemies (verbally, legally or otherwise). It's one reason Scientology has made such a bad name for itself (see Operation Footbullet). Most people resent being bullied, and so long as they adopt such aggressive techniques they will earn the dislike (quiet or not) of those who empathize with the people being bullied.
Now, having said all that, Hubbard was a very smart man at times (I actually admire his shrewdness and paranoia), and Christianity has had the Inquisition (which burned people alive for daring to think that the Earth orbits the sun) and crusades. Even pacificstic Buddhism (at least the Zen kind) was trotted out to support militarism in WWII Japan. And medicine generally, but psychiatry especially, has a fairly sordid history. I personally think it was due to the difficulty of treating some severe psychiatric pathologies; they were willing to embrace some awful stuff in their despair/futility. I shudder to think of the carnival-like atmosphere of the early lobotomies. Schizophrenia is still quite enigmatic. Bipolar is only treatable with some awful mind-dulling drugs (lithium replaces calcium in the brain and slows it down, preventing mania). For what it's worth, I've heard shock treatment is now only done in severe cases of depressive disorders, and only done with the consent of the patient.
The notion of the infallibility of the Pope is also quite dangerous, though I haven't heard mention of it in a modern context. Beware people who think that they are righteous, receive personal instruction from a diety, cannot tolerate dissent, wear their religion on their sleeve, or act on a mandate from the people. Listing modern people who exhibit all those beliefs is left as an exercise to the reader. Anyway, infallibility has not been a particularly durable attribute through history, and the power that comes with the perception of one's infallibility seems to have a corrupting influence.
I don't really like or hate religion. I know that there's more to consciousness and life than we currently understand (or maybe _can_ _ever_ understand). I'm on the fence about duping people into acting for the social good with promises of rewards in the afterlife. I think that the elevation of faith to first place in front of logic or common sense is dangerous ground. That having been said, the religious people I know seem to be more moral to me, which I approve of.
"They say there's enough religion in the world to make men hate one another, but not enough to make them love." -- Angel Heart, the motion picture
Sad but true.
99 - Jeff
I used to feel sorry for people who got mindraped by Scientology, but not anymore.
With all the information available about the tactics these nuts use and the kooky shit they believe, no thinking person with access to the internet has an excuse for getting sucked in by this fruity little brainwashing club that calls itself a religion.
If you belong to this group and believe their crap, you deserve whatever misery that comes with it.
100 - ShortyRoc
Jenna Elfman on Scientology in her own words.
What a complete ditz!
101 - Ferdinand Featherstone
Jeff, I still feel sorry for people who become Scientologists. Scientology has their pitch down to a science. People get sucked in in many ways, but usually it is when the cult plays on their "ruin", some part of their life that has not gone well. They then present themselves as the only cure. The internet has been a big help for the critics, but some poor souls still get stung.
102 - Bryan
Ok i'm gonna start on this and say first of all i'm not religious in the least. And I hate it when people try to tell me that i'm going to hell. one i belive there is no heaven and there is no hell. No god no devil. Od and Evil yes let me explain the difference between your od and the evil. Christans who pray everyday for miracle that don't happen that are od. Peope who make up a new religon based on science are od. Satanists are infact od. a man who rapes ten little girls and kills thier parents are evil. Hell otherwise known as help and heaven otherwise known as haven are other examples. The killer needs help and the od need a haven. So when in fact that heaven, hell, god, and the devil do infact reside on earth. If you think about it all that i said is true. This religion know as scientology is just a religon for christans to fal back on when the aliens come to earth and want to talk. In short it's all just a bunch of bs to make people rich. The End
103 - Mitchell Blatt
I'm going to preface this by saying that I am athiest, and I don't need religion, but I will say that regular religions like Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam have much more validy than this sci-fi cult of Scientology. The 3 major religions I mentioned were actually based on real people and events, albiet many of them were exagerated, but Jesus, Moses, Muhamed, and the rest of the prophets were all true historical figures. Scientology is based on a sci-fi book.
104 - Lydia Breck
These celebrity scientologists are seriously wigging out, I mean, do they get their brains scooped out in the cult or what? Imagine being stuck in a room with Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley and Jenna Elfman. I can think of no greater horror.
105 - Kuba
Hey,
I agree with most of you guys with what you say, some stuff seems a little irrational to me. I probably know scientologists better than any of you. I go to a school that is pretty much filled with them. I don't like religions overall. With scientology I think that there is more "logical" theories than with any other religion. They take their little courses on how life works...and most of them think this is the only way life works....it's kind of depressing to try to make them look at things from other angle. Overall I am trying to say that although they are crazy, they are no more crazy than any other religious people, and I can say that they are much more orginized and they tend to help people quite often.
p.s. I've asked a lot of scientologists about all the beliefs in aliens, and what media makes out if very far from reality.
106 - anti scientologist
how is it that a sci fi writer ..made a religion which seems to be sci fi but somehow there are still followers. sci fi is not real.. im pretty sure science FICTION does not mean religion. fiction means not real.
107 - Ferdinand Featherstone
Kuba, the media reports on Xenu are very close to scripture. The students you speak of just haven't learned about it yet.
108 - DestroyXenu
Their "little courses" are no more than staring contests and desensitization programming. Scientology is a disease that has caused good people to empty out their minds and wallets.
When will people get over using "gay" as a derogatory term? I'm gay and find it insulting that anyone would put "Scientology" and "gay" in the same sentence.
109 - Matt
Maybe they just mean "happy". Kinda like having a fag is just another way of saying smoking a ciggarette.
110 - Morris Kamelgarn
Dawn,
I am not a member of the church of Scientology, even though I did take some courses, so I have no need to defend it. However, one of the points you made in your article is blatantly wrong. Scientology was definitely not the cause of Tom Cruise's breakup with Mimi Rogers. It couldn't be, because she was the one who introduced Tom Cruise to Scientology.
111 - durruti
religion.... ,thank god I am a new born atheist
in my grandfather's home country people killed for their god the serbian were orthodox ,the croats were catholic ,the bosnians could be either orthodox ,catholics or muslim you had your church ,your culture and in the name of their church they killed each other with such a ferocity ,religion is a fucking problem especially when someione tells you he's right and you're wrong ,let us be what we want and desire god or no god ,oer well I don't know ,but scienos are real disguised fascist pigs ,it is my point of view , tey are harmfull and dangerous , they the scienos azre the most expensive religious cult
viva la anarquia!
112 - Sean
The fact that people can support this stuff sheds a very sad light on the fabric of belife and religion in general.Belief is never fact.So a belief can consist of absolutely anything.All it needs is a strong or imaginative leader.It is therefore not surprising that they have a science fiction writer as their founder(mister hubbard).I think scientology seriously gets us to question our more 'true' beliefs ie convensional religion instead of worring about the more freeky shit ie scientology.
113 - Tom Cruise
Scientology is cool you just being nasty.I am going to tell Zeeon from planet looney toons and Ba from under my bed and we going to F$£% get all of you.....
114 - Bob
Without fanatic Muslims, paedophile priests and money grabbing cults life would be so simple.Oh well.What the hell.God bless us all and even you little Timmy.
115 - Xibalba
Scientology is, at the best, a placebo effect. At the worst (which it seems to be locked in 24/7) it is a cult, pure and simple.
The members are brainwashed to believe that auditing works (it's a potpourri of pop-psychology with a primitive lie-detector), that Hubbard's "Tech" is the only way to personal enlightment, and that psychiatry and psychology (the only entities capable of legitimately and legally proving that Scientologists are either brainwashed or insane) are evil.
Scientologist's responses to criticism are typical. They first ask, "What are your crimes?" Then they try to goad you into admitting them. Then they try to lead you into admitting crimes by listing them.
Anyone who believes in the doctrines and dogma of Scientology is either completely and utterly deranged or they need serious help.
116 - Tim
Read #115 Jenna~
117 - Sally Anne
Wow, what happened to freedom of religion, to respect the religious beliefs of others.
Don't abuse your religious rights here in the U.S.
Our planet and nations NOW face possible neuclar war and war for years ongoing, from religious intolerence and yet I see these writings!!!!
WAKE UP and get straight on this right and privilege so you don't loose it.
None of this garbage is accurate at all on the above subject, per my research.
I respect all the great religions of earth and Scientology is most certainly in this catagory.
118 - brooke
dislike other poeples religions is pretty lame.
119 - brooke
you wouldn't believe what Psychiatrists grossly neglect to point out the potential harm of
psychiatric drugs to their patients, such as
tardive dyskinesia, tardive dementia, general dulling of awareness, emotional numbing, and
cognitive dysfunction.often the effects are
permanent with no known cure.
why would they do that?
what are they trying to get out of it?
i dont know,but its killing millions.
you might not want to believe this or
will not believe it, but they are keeping
things from us that they shouldn't.
and if you dont believe it thats fine,
check it out for yourself.
you dont have to go by my word.
120 - brooke
if you want to know the truth.
www.sntp.net
121 - sean
"ultra-sensitive, slightly mental, obsessive follower of the highly-questionable, alien-loving religion Scientology."
umm ive met a Scientologist.
and that person was not anywhere close to being that.
what do people have against them.
just wondering.
i mean im not one,but im just wondering.
i think its gay to be racist against other religions.
122 - NIK PUSAN
They are strange people. All of the ones I've met were Gay/Lesbian Homosexuals. They want to convert you or hate you.
123 - jim s
this is great. hahahah!!!!!!!~~!~! nice friggen article or bit of info. I googled "scientology is gay" and ended up here... this made my day/night/week/month...
124 - Lord Xenu
Can we call it Fictionology? It has as much to do with Fiction as it does Science. The fact that there are numbers of members of this cult just reflects the sad, under-educated state of society today.