JC--I just read your post. Goodness, you're in as deep as me. How can I say anything to you, when I'm just as lost in my Sag? I told her "see ya never" four weeks ago, and 4 days ago, she's begging, showing up at my door, telling me all sorts of things to get me to agree to see her again and to "be together"--again. Sucker, me, I saw her and now she's calling me every night, wants to see me all the time (I won't let her), and wants to plan this/that. Thing is...I think because I kept away, we're back to the "chase" mode...like when we first met. If you let a Sag catch you AND keep you, you become boring. If you want to keep them chasing, keep running, and stop every once in a while and allow yourself to be "caught". But how long can this chase mode continue? I know I'll get tired of running soon enough, and when my Sag gets bored because I'm not acting like prey, but want to be caught, we'll call it quits again; I'm almost certain. That's when I'll take my re-injured heart back from her to heal, and then find someone who will be there when I want to stop running, and just want to stand still with them. Because, frankly, I doubt the last woman standing for me will be my Sag. I'd like it to be, but yeah..I doubt it. History has shown me otherwise.
So for now, JC...you and I are both back in the "game"...but boy, I hope neither of us gets burnt too badly.
Good luck to you...update as we go. I'm sure my stories will get dramatic before too long. You? ;)
hi elsa, i'm a sagittarian ("sag man" sounds a bit strange -- like something's supposed to sag, heh) and boy, it's almost scary how much i can relate to what you said.
yup, i want to love and be loved, but at the same time i have this almost insane need not to be tied down. so i guess this is true for most sagittarians?
commitment was always a scary thing for me, and while i love my wife, many of our disagreements stem from the fact that i'm obsessed with my need to be free. her sign's pisces, by the way.
i dunno if it's true for most sadges but i generally find it easier to deal with ideas than emotions. i always want something new.
ok, i'm babbling, heh. thanks for this article!
78 -
JC
Aug 08, 2006 at 4:26 pm
DualFish: Yeah, I'm back. I ran and he caught me, now I'm sprung again. I can't do the whole, "maybe I'm interested, maybe I'm not". I love hard and smother with affection.
He's in Georgia now and we txt a couple of times and spoke a few. I called a lot today and he hasn't responded.
We'll see if I can calm down this week and do the whole chase thing. I'm in love, but sometimes a mess cause I don't get the communication or all the attention I desire.
79 -
DualFish
Aug 09, 2006 at 2:32 am
JC: Don't you love how we start by being chased by the Sag and end up doing the chasing ourselves in the end? I've learned the hard way to let mine go and be free as she likes. Heres's an example: she and I both work in front of computers all day--different fields, but I see her online and she sees me. Many-a-times I'd say "hi, how are you" to her, only to be treated with either a "hi, baby!" for no apparent reason...or a "hi, hang on, busy". Hot and cold. So nowadays, I just do nothing. I see her online...HOURS go by (we're both online since 9 a.m.)...before she finally gets annoyed at waiting for me to initiate contact...sometimes it gets to be 2-3 p.m. when she'll suddenly say, "You there?" YUP, I'm here, but I'm not chasing YOU. So I say, "Yep"...and she's all chat chat chat, but if I respond at all and get a little into the conversation, then she's suddenly, "hang on, brb"...and off she goes again. Hot and cold.
Exhausting. My advice? Stop chasing. Go and have your own life. Pretend as if you two are NOT talking at all. Let him be in Georgia and you live your life as if you two had not re-united. Let him call you. If he texts, respond...but wait a while before you do. If he calls, take your time calling back, unless it's "urgent". Yea, you want to love hard...and so do I, but you know? What "love hard" might mean to you and me...is not the same to the Sag's, I've learned.
Personally, I'm tired of the "chasing" game. In fact, it's become a touch boring for me, and the stability of just being with someone who wants you there and doesn't mind telling you and showing you would be just great!
Oh, and JOEY...Sag and Pisces, eh? I'm a Pisces. What is it with you Sag's and chasing us Pisces? ;)
DualFish
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satori
Aug 09, 2006 at 8:57 pm
can we turn this into group therapy? you all seem to be telling my story in one form or other. I'm pisces. I'm starting to hate him... yet I crave him. I hate this game and I don't want to play. He feels like an addiction. I feel bereft because loving him after knowing all this makes me feel like less of a person.
81 -
JC
Aug 10, 2006 at 12:16 pm
That's exactly what they are......an addiction. You hate it but you kind of love it.
82 -
DualFish
Aug 11, 2006 at 12:45 pm
I second and third that! Addictive relationships--it's a real thing. Google it. I have...
dearie me, am I the only one having a very happy long-term relationship with a Sagittarius here?
No I don't find him too rushed in bed. Definately faster sex than with previous Pisces lovers of yore but to be honest sex that goes on for hours gets a bit boring for me.
I love Sagittarius men unashamedly, and for the most part I've had extremely happy relationships with them. Perhaps this is because I have Jupiter rising and I'm pretty independent myself so even though I am a Cancerian and like security I don't really feel the need to cling.
There are things about Sagittarius I knew when I married him
* tendency to not just be able to say "I'm sorry" or give a short, simple answer but must instead launch into a convoluted (and often hilarious) theory instead.
* tendency to go out for a simple task(buy some bread) and come back three hours later via Galapagos Islands with some interesting but unrelated gadgets.
But overall even though I left him plenty of space I've never known him to really want to leave home. The only exception was when he changed jobs and really liked all the people at work and was going out with them all the time until I got irate and put my foot down and we compromised (x days of the week for friends, x days of the week for spending time with wife).
Maybe it helps that he has a Taurus Rising but he's been constant and faithful and patient and stood by me through illness and struggle (queue: "How can you love me, I'm just a crazy bitch!" "True, but you're MY crazy bitch...")
A lot depends on your chart and its inherent needs, and a lot depends on the chart of the individual Sag, but I have never found Sag to be inherently rubbish in relationships or incapable of sustained intimacy and commitment.
84 -
B
Aug 13, 2006 at 5:01 am
Aww thanks Nia. That's what i needed. I thought i was nuts or overlooking something, but i really am happy with my sag. I've never been so happy, and i've had a fare share and variety of men. With the exception of his cheating, we've passed it, and i never feel stupid for being with him, so i guess that's a good sign right? We're going to marry soon also. I do feel right about it, and now with ur indirect blessing, i feel very comfortable with it. Thanks Nia, and all the best girl.
85 -
lovewarrior
Aug 13, 2006 at 7:11 am
Hi, i'm taurus but have stationary venus in aries trine mars in sag and jupiter in 7th and it seems every man i've dated has a sag influence be it sun,moon,asc,etc. Noticed a few other taureans on here with saggi beaus which kinda soothed me as we're so often told we're incompatible (maybe we are but maybe thats the attraction). Of my 2 closest friends 1 is sag and the other sag rising and my sister is a double (sun & moon). Cant seem to escape the energy and mostly i dont want to even when they're driving me completely insane.
I think what attracts me is their sense of fun (sometimes bordering on recklessness admittedly) and their refusal to bow down to the man. They say what they think and do what they want and i guess i'm admiral of that until it clashes with what i want. Then i rant and rave and completely lose it and you know what they never bat an eyelid, just carry on as before. They even seem to get a kick out of my rants and raves, they like people who are not afraid to say what they think and dont mind if it differs from their own views cos they're learning and sag's love to expand their minds. They also have a quite lovable optimism and faith in the future that greatly appeals to my over analytical virgoan (have a stellium in virgo-moon,jup,plu,uranus in 7th)neurosis'. In short they cheer me up and give me hope. I think for me it helps if they have a receptive moon as i personally feel that moons are more important in compatibility. But i need their energy in my life and it seems i cant avoid it even if i try.
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satori
Aug 13, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Nia, you said, "Perhaps this is because I have Jupiter rising and I'm pretty independent myself so even though I am a Cancerian and like security I don't really feel the need to cling." I'm sure you didn't intend to infer that we DO cling, but it does sound that way. I've got a fair bit of Leo-Aries independence myself. My experience is that attempts to enforce boundaries or have and express feelings are interpreted as clinging by the sadges in my life.
Also, your sadge married. The sadge I'm thinking of will never marry. I'm sure there's a spectrum from Peter Pan to sadges who show their boy/girl-ishness in more mature ways. I think this discussion follows the former and while it's nice to hear sadge can be expressed so beautifully, that's not really what the pain you see expressed here is about. it's about the lower expression that many of us are dealing with.
87 -
JC
Aug 14, 2006 at 10:49 am
That's my problem. I'm a leo and I want praise and compulsive attention. If you don't return my calls or txt immediately I assume your insulting me. I can be very extreme and clingy which I'm working on.
It's obvious I have to show I have a full and fulfilling life, outside of my relationship with him, so he can see he is not being chased.
Satori I certainly didn't mean to infer that EVERY Cancerian clings but I have known a great fair few who do. I cling to material things, and it's taken me a long time to let people go partially because I know how annoying I find it when people want too much of me.
It's all relative though, all part of the spectrum. What is normal intimacy to one person is another's clinginess and suffocation. I think people should be true to their needs, and wanting to hang onto something/someone is not intrinsically wrong at all. Everyone has needs after all, and it's good to honour them. It just becomes a problem when the other person doesn't like it and tells you to loosen your grip, please and that's a problem that can plague Sagittarius/Aquarius and Cancer.
It's all about keeping a balance. Physically I have a very hands on relationship with my partner - when we're home alone chances are I'm in his arms and around his neck like a koala while emotionally I'm a lot more laid back and try not to be limiting. Luckily this is something that suits both of us.
My experience is that attempts to enforce boundaries or have and express feelings are interpreted as clinging by the sadges in my life.
That sounds both unfortunate and frustrating. Have discussion and compromise been options?In my experience people who feel frightened of the emotions of others generally feel frightened of their own, and I think it’s found across every Sun sign.
In the past I’ve certainly had relationships with people where my nature and theirs clashed in ways that proved to be frustrating and unresolvable for both parties, not because either’s needs were wrong but simply because at that time they were incompatible.
The sadge I'm thinking of will never marry. I'm sure there's a spectrum from Peter Pan to sadges who show their boy/girl-ishness in more mature ways. I think this discussion follows the former and while it's nice to hear sadge can be expressed so beautifully, that's not really what the pain you see expressed here is about. it's about the lower expression that many of us are dealing with.
Although I wouldn’t classify the lack of desire to marry/settle as necessarily immature I can totally understand the pain of people feeling let down by their partners and I don’t mean to knock that at all. The point of my post was not to invalidate that experience but to reassure people that not every Sagittarius is a lousy lover and commitmentphobic and that yes, it is possible to have happy relationships â€" so that they aren't freaked out and put off at the start by thinking it will all end in tears.
Regarding Cancers and whether or not they cling, look to the sign position of the Moon (which Cancer rules). For example, I have a Cancer man friend (ex-boyfriend actually) who I have known for 30 years. And he does not cling and never has. However, his Moon is in (detached) Aquarius... :)
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B
Aug 15, 2006 at 1:00 am
Thanks again Nia. I've only read all the negatives, and i am a realist, so i knew there had to be somethings wonderful about the sag man. I felt it, and experience it everyday with him, so i really just wanted to know whether there were other cases of that, and that it wasn't just all in my head.
I too am the same at home. He loves the affection i show him, and as touchy feely as i am, i also understand that this is a man who strongly has and undertakes his interests and hobbies.
When we r in each other's company, i feel fantastic. He is sweet, soft-spoken but direct, enlightening and just beautiful to gaze at.
So in conclusion, the male sag can be a great man, it's just up to him. My partner told me that 5yrs ago, he was not this eager to commit or felt the need to love, cuz he just felt he wasn't ready. So really, i guess it's a matter of meeting a sag at the right time...when they're ripe.
91 -
JC
Aug 15, 2006 at 10:09 am
Well things are going okay with my Saggie man and I. The only thing is (here is TMI coming) I lost my virginity to this Sag man and I'm a novice sexually. The one thing about my sag is the coming to quickly and I read that in astrology books that Saggie men come quickly and sex is not intense for them. I am a very emotional person. I cry during sex and I want sex to last at least 30min and not 7 or 10min.
The fourplay is good, but the actual sex is over very quickly. It's very intense and emotional but doesn't last long.
Does anyone else experience this with their Saggie men.
I can’t remember that sex being too short was a problem associated with any of my Saggi lovers. If I’d attach an astrological significator to coming quickly then I’d attach it to Moon in Aries. (I’m not saying every Aries Moon fires its shot too soon, but anecdotal evidence from several astrologers suggest that it’s a pattern they’ve noticed; Also my husband him of the Aries Moon and Mars doesn’t have that issue, but then there’s also a Taurus Ascendant and Venus in Capricorn to compensate).
How old is your Saggie? One thing Z continuously says is that he was very different at 22 than at 30 (when I met him, and when he’d slowed down and patienced up considerably). Age is a big factor, and people tend to be very different after their Saturn return. On the other hand I know another fabulous Sag who got married and had children in his 20s and is spending his forties happily unmarried, enjoying a succession of relationships that won’t lead to a wedding or more children, and that’s fair enough.
I don’t think you should settle in relationships, sexually or otherwise, for something that is less than what you want/need because it won’t make you happy, or your partner happy.
Entering sex, discovering your sexuality â€" those are joyful things! Exciting things! A wonderful time to learn about your needs and desires and what gives pleasure, as you are already doing. There is no need on this journey to limit yourself to one man, especially if he’s not giving you what you need. The world is full of men!
Everyone, everyone, has different needs and sexual styles. It’s like personality â€" there’s some room for compromise but ultimately if it isn’t working then stop trying to make it fit and move on to something that flows more easily, more joyfully. The world, after all, is full of people who you can learn things from â€" inside the bed and outside of it.
I don’t think there’s one right way to have sex. If you want to cry and cuddle and make love as your souls entwine, then that’s fair enough. There are certainly plenty of people who want the same things, and will be able to meet that need. Perhaps, it’s also something that your current lover wishes to do, and there’s certainly techniques aplenty about how to delay the male orgasm and last longer (off the top of my head I remember Tracy Cox talking about it on The Sex Inspectors; there’s certainly books out there about it). Tantric sex is another avenue you may want to investigate â€" as it’s all about the deep connections and Sag tends to love learning about new things/ideas so you may both get a kick out of it.
Ultimately though, perhaps the things you want and make you happy are not compatible with one another and cannot be made to fit. In that case there’s no shame in that, nor letting each other go and allowing people who fit those needs better to come into your life instead.
Lol B, now I have Ripe Sagittarius Men! Come get your perfectly ripe Sagittarius Men here! Come get them before they fall off the branch and spoil! running through me brains.
I think it's very true what you say - Sag is a wonderful beast but you need to meet them in the right context, at the right time. I used to wonder why most of the people I got attached to had a Sagittarius Moon and then I realised I loved them all because they were so freaking hilarious.
So in conclusion - Sagittarius, It Doesn't Have to End in Tears ;)
94 -
DualFish
Aug 16, 2006 at 5:34 pm
I have to vent: will things NEVER calm down with my Sag and me? EVER? She was begging and pleading with me, only last week, that she wants to have 'peace' between us and can we try to take things slow? Sure, fine. In a matter of 8 days, she starts to flake out on plans--again--and then she says, when I finally told her that she's being flakey and unreliable again..she goes, "We need a break". She does this all the time! I finally told her to grow up and not to come to me to kiss her boo-boo's better, because I'm not her mommy and she needs to take it elsewhere. What a moron!
Besides which, I think I have a better than average understanding of Sag's, since my Moon is in Sag. But it doesn't help with this one, that's for sure.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
DualFish
95 -
Daisy
Aug 16, 2006 at 7:06 pm
wow.
how I love to tune in to hear the latest drama. This is better than a soap opera anyday!
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satori
Aug 18, 2006 at 2:09 am
It's been my experience that a lover who tells you they just want to be friends is probably incapable of sustaining either type of relationship.
97 -
DualFish
Aug 18, 2006 at 5:23 pm
My Saggie is a certified dummie. I'm tired of her 'games'. One day she loves me, next day she's 'angry' with me..it's like, she doesn't even need me there really to play out her 'drama'.
I tried to reason with her--again--to be like, look this cyclical thing between us is not normal. Can we talk about it? Her response, "I'm not ready today". What a control freak! So many times I've said to her I don't want to talk to her at all, and she's harrassed me, calling/texting/emailing/instant messaging...and I've said, "LEAVE ME ALONE" and she wouldn't listen. Now that I'm saying, "Look this not talking again thing is dumb, lets not do it again," she says, "Today, this is how I feel." Okay, WHATEVER. As if I'm waiting for her mood to change, and mine will HAVE to change along with it. NOT.
So I told her I'll leave her alone, if she leaves me alone permanently, too. She said, "Don't worry, I will". Yes, I've heard THAT one 5 million times, until two weeks pass, and she comes around and stalks me again. What a dummie.
I blocked her from my instant message. I'm going to change my tel. #'s, too. I was obviously delusional to think I could talk reason to this one...
DualFish
98 -
satori
Aug 19, 2006 at 12:35 am
ah, DualFish, I really hear you. the supposed love of my life that I've been dealing with hangs up on me on a whim. the last time, he asked me if I was okay (after telling me about another woman he'd been talking with and admitting there was an interest there) and when I paused before answering HE HUNG UP! not the first time, just an example. then he didn't speak to me for a week!
recently he decided we were moving too fast (hadn't seen him in person in a month) and we need to "just be friends". I said it sounds like we're done. "well if that's the way you want to interpret it". so today I called and left a message (I knew he wouldn't answer) telling him I need to get over him and told him not to contact me for a month. we have a child together so that complicates things (we were never married).
thankfully I know he WON'T contact me, probably ever again. he'll be on to the next one. good effing riddance.
I go back and forth between grief and anger.
99 -
JC
Aug 20, 2006 at 10:28 pm
Looks like my Sag is back to his old behavior. He was supposed to come by today. I bought wine and all kind of treats, he didn't even call to say something came up or something happen. Just no notificatiion.
Why are they so heartless when it comes to their partner's schedule and plans.
Selfish and wishy washy.
And comes to quick. What am I doing
100 -
satori
Aug 21, 2006 at 1:44 am
well, if it helps, I truly understand and I am SO, SO sorry. your feelings matter, and you have value and are worthy of respect.
101 -
JC
Aug 21, 2006 at 9:03 am
Thanks.
Looks DualFish is going through the rollercoaster too. I called and called all day yesterday and his phone was off. No call from another phone to say "Baby I can't make it". Just left me hanging in my apt waiting with a hot dinner all alone.
This is ridiculous. You would think you give a man $300 2 weeks ago so he can fly to the south to be with his child, that he'd be more apt at showing appreciation for me.
But he comes back and just spends time with me for 1 day out of the week, then promises to see me on Sunday, but leaves me hanging.
You're right, your feelings are valuable and DO matter! So if your partners are treating in you in ways you find unacceptable the most elegant solution might be to dump their asses. Because you can go on all you want about how something is not right but as long as you stay with that person you are indirectly also telling them it's OK, that you're willing to put up with it and that they won't have to deal with the consequences of acting like asshats.
Love, especially love of your life is not supposed to make you feel like shit unless you like the drama and the pain. It takes two people to create a particular dynamic (I speak from painful personal experience) and it's created by someone doing something unacceptable and the other person letting them get away with it, thereby reinforcing the message that it's all right to continue doing it. And if you really don't like it, then put down some boundaries and ground rules and stick to them, at which point the other person has the choice to either change or leave.
It sounds much easier to say than to put into practice of course, but usually it's the only way.
If you don't want to dialogue with someone, simply don't engage. Don't answer when they ring, or if you do just put down the phone. Don't answer their letters. This is more effective than saying LEAVE ME ALONe because as long as you're saying anything you're still talking and this encourages further dialogue. On the other hand blank silence does work because eventually they get the message of no reinforcement at all and then they stop.
If my husband didn't show up for plans he'd made with me and didn't call, I'd read him the riot act. If a lover pulled the same stunt then they'd have to work their little asses of to convince me to see them again. I'm all for being understanding and forgiving, and there are times when people forget or get sidetracked or something. But if it becomes a repeat pattern... in my opinion life is too short to put up with that bollocks.
Best of luck
103 -
B
Aug 21, 2006 at 12:27 pm
Nice advice, but i begin to wonder, perhaps saggies are different in the UK. Just wondering. U are blessed though, u realise that??? But u are also wise...
104 -
DualFish
Aug 21, 2006 at 12:45 pm
Yes, apparently, every time we dialogue with our Sag's, they get us back on the roller coaster. Listen, I'm all for the excitement of a roller coaster ride, but if that's all I'm ever on...high high's, and low low's, I'm bound to vomit eventually, get a headache, a brain contusion, and lots of aches and pains. LOTS. I've already done the verbal vomiting, and my brain hurts from thinking, "WHY does this keep happening?" At the end of the day, best to get off the ride and get on something more stable, more calm, and less nauseating.
Satori--that sucks that he won't even be responsible to his own child. But then again, why am I not surprised? Sag's are BIG children themselves and it's all about "me, me, me".
JC--sorry to hear your Sag is up to his old ways again. Honestly, these people won't change--and when I say "change"...I mean learning to treat their partners as valuable, and treating them well. If they didn't do it to begin with, they're not about to start now. Although, frankly, I think that's a load of crap (bollocks, per Nia) on their end, because they CHOOSE not to change, not because they can't. They get what they want, how they want it, and on their own selfish terms, so why bother changing?
I read in a book this morning, "A person can only change if he/she wants to, and if you stay around hoping they will change, realize that a person won't even try to change if a situation doesn't become uncomfortable enough for them TO change--as in, you leave, and if they love you and realize they need to change to get you back, then they might. But as long as they get what they want, they won't change. There is no real incentive to do so, especially if you stick around, take their crap, and hope for the best." I think that's VERY true.
Sags: Selfish. Self-centered. Inconsiderate. Rude. Thoughtless. Self-serving. Liars. Players. And did I mention, selfish?
Chaps my behind...
DualFish
105 -
JC
Aug 21, 2006 at 5:55 pm
More Drama: I called today cursing him out saying why did he not call, then he called later saying he was in jail for a day because of a ticket and a warrant because of old tickets.
Then the police picked him up and took him to jail for the night and took his phone.
Then he had his brother call me, but supposedly the brother called the wrong number, so then he got me and his brother on the phone to tell me that he really did get arrested.
Then he got mad at me, because I said it's always something with him, and he said- Your mad that I didn't come to dinner! Then he said I have to go to work, bye!
He was really nasty and short with me and made me feel like I was a wicked bitch because I was still upset. He thought well I'm telling you now what happened so just suck it up.
106 -
JC
Aug 21, 2006 at 5:55 pm
More Drama: I called today cursing him out saying why did he not call, then he called later saying he was in jail for a day because of a ticket and a warrant because of old tickets.
Then the police picked him up and took him to jail for the night and took his phone.
Then he had his brother call me, but supposedly the brother called the wrong number, so then he got me and his brother on the phone to tell me that he really did get arrested.
Then he got mad at me, because I said it's always something with him, and he said- Your mad that I didn't come to dinner! Then he said I have to go to work, bye!
He was really nasty and short with me and made me feel like I was a wicked bitch because I was still upset. He thought well I'm telling you now what happened so just suck it up.
107 -
satori
Aug 22, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Maybe it's my capricorn, but where's the healthy shame over being in JAIL?? My friends and I have a term we use when we realize we've been dominating the convo: "Oh, sorry I went All About Me!"
You should forget whatever petty concern YOU have cos whatever is going on with him trumps yours. always. He's the center of the universe, I guess, except I've heard God is far more magnanimous.
and DualFish-- amen. thanks for venting cos it makes me feel all "OH YEAH" inside.
Nia... we're venting here. we all seem pretty intelligent and really do know the score. Sometimes people need somewhere safe to vent, somewhere people really do understand what you're talking about. We already know the Dr. Phil thang on this one. When we're done going 'round, we'll be done. We all intellectually know the score. Right here is where we're venting our spleen.
108 -
JC
Aug 22, 2006 at 3:19 pm
I am so hurt. I apologized (Like a dummy) for my indifference towards him and he's treating me like dirt.
I have to be strong and leave him alone once and for all.
Nia... we're venting here. we all seem pretty intelligent and really do know the score. Sometimes people need somewhere safe to vent, somewhere people really do understand what you're talking about.
Fair do. :) Vent away. It's your pity party and you can cry if you want to.
I'm sorry if my advice is obsolete and indeed as you say, people are allowed to go 'round as long as they want to.
Also my glib tone masks the fact that I really do have deep sympathies for people who are in unsatisfactory relationships, being a veteran of those myself. However I do get irked by the whole *blame it on the Sag* attitude as opposed to *Some people are asshats, regardless of sun sign*. Actually, I get pretty irked with the whole *blame someone else* thing(unless it's the Blame Canada song in the South Park movie, which is just funny) because it's not constructive to recognising your own part in the drama you're creating, or its re-creation with that person or the next one who comes along.
On the other hand I apologise for my Virgo-Rising desire to make things all constructive and practical - if that's not what you're after that's your sacred right and fine enough by me.
I'm sorry if I offend and I probably should have let this thread go a while back but I admit to being somewhat mesmerised by the drama.
110 -
JC
Aug 23, 2006 at 10:55 am
This particular blog is about Sagittarius people and your dealings and queries regarding that sign. It just morphed into variuos people commenting on their experiences with Saggies
Do not overanalyze or critizize our little discussion.
Somethimes you need to vent. We are logical and know that we add some dysfunctionto a relationship as well, but for right now we just want to vent.
Can we live? Geesh!
111 -
satori
Aug 23, 2006 at 11:11 am
Yeah... (sarcasm on:) thanks Nia, for slamming us about our self-pity. that really helps people who are hurting, who are trying really hard to rise above self-pity and be healthy. I've been really strong about fending off unwanted communications from the sadge in my life, but it took a Virgo rising to break the floodgates and make the Pisces cry. GOOD JOB. thanks.
112 -
Shock
Aug 23, 2006 at 1:10 pm
Well... after seeing a lot of comment posted on
this blog , i feel as if the rest of the signs have made up a certain level of dishonety tag attached to the sags.i mean i madly love a leo woman with all my heart and cant to seem to take eyes of her.i m a sag and so is my father, believe me he has never cheated in his entire life nor has he gambled.Its just the fact that only some sags are truly born with their entire traits.they are simply like a wild stallions who need to be cared and tendered all the time . and loyalty and honesty is what u get . im not a drinker ....helll i dont even drink tea.i never gamble,and am quite popular in the social circuits.and for all the leo women who truly possess their qualities for real,you bring out the best in sagittarians.once u understand a sag he'll give u years of wonderful experiences
113 -
JC
Aug 25, 2006 at 12:08 pm
I'm a leo woman to the fullest, Shock. They said leo's can tame the Sag man, but that's bull. He has treated me the worst and gave him the best.
No more whatsoever! They're only good for casual affairs, not long lasting relationships.
114 -
duane
Aug 25, 2006 at 2:40 pm
I had a 3-year relationship with a woman who is a teacher. It didn't work out after all that. Teachers are all the same. Therefore, I will never date a teacher again. They are not good for long-lasting relationships.
115 -
JC
Aug 25, 2006 at 5:16 pm
Duane: Stop making fun of us. We're just venting.
116 -
duane
Aug 25, 2006 at 5:30 pm
OK. Venting is good.
Carry on.
117 -
roger
Aug 26, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Maybe Duane vents through mockery at the Miss Havisham act.
I thought Leos were meant to be the self-centered stars of the horoscope not Sag...or maybe everyone has the capacity to be selfish if they can get away with it, but what do I know, I'm just a Taurus.
Look at all the rewards for being self-centered. Instead of getting dumped, these men have got women twisting themselves into pretzels trying to figure out some way to keep their self-centered guy from running off and treating someone else like dirt.
119 -
DualFish
Aug 27, 2006 at 4:51 pm
I'm still going with, Sag's are selfish--selfish and self-centered as a 5-year old can be. It's all about "me, me, me" with them, and their "needs" are ALL that matter--to them. I've dated all the signs, btw, and Leos are definitely in need of attention, but I've found them to be generous and be able to reciprocate the attention they seek. In my experience, the other selfish sign is Aries...but I'm not going to generalize, because I've only ever dated two.
As for Sags...as long as you do what THEY want, and what makes THEM feel good at a constant, they'll come around for you often...but the minute you stop "giving" to them, they disappear and seek good times elsewhere. Heavens forbid reality should come knocking and take them out of their La La Land where everything is just peachy--that's when you'll see the back of them. My response to that is: Buh Bye.
That's been my experience, and yes, I've dated other Sag's, too.
DualFish
120 -
Taurus 32
Aug 29, 2006 at 9:30 am
I am TAURUS female trying to arrange time with Mr SAGGY what a nightmare if I wasn't so in to him I think I would give up! I guess it that cheeky smile and gift of the gab he as been gifted.
121 -
JC
Aug 29, 2006 at 3:23 pm
I am officially done. No joke.
We have reached the end. I haven't spoken to him in 8 days and I am fine.
We are through and I feel good about it. It's a relief and now that I am sure I know I can work on myself and get ready for something wonderful to come into my life.
122 -
lillie
Aug 29, 2006 at 9:31 pm
You go girl. He's the looser here. You deserve better.
Dear JC and DualFish, well done on saying goodbye to those who made you unhappy! I certainly hope that the next time round someone who will enters your lives.
Although what DualFish says of her experience with Sagittarius really makes me curious, since DualFish has a Saggi Moon herself and I would have thought it would spark more affinity. Unless the Sun and Moon are in square or involved in some messy configurations in the chart so the Saggi moon gets projected outwards or something... I don't know.
But I was thinking about all this quite a bit over the weekend, and generically about the energy we put out there and what comes of it and who we attract.
So DualFish if you decide Saggies are not for you - then fair enough. Most Aries aren't really for me not because Aries sucks but because we tend to rub each other up the wrong way (the behaviour that my Leo friend brands *Magnificent* I tend to classify as *Irritating*; so each to their own and so on).
I don't often get along with children. I don't always know how to be playful or meet them on their level and their questions are laregely a source of irritation rather than amusement, and often children don't naturally click with me either. (On the other hand they love my husband- Saggittarius Sun and my colleague- Sagittarius Moon and Rising, and are all over them from the get go). And I thought maybe the energy I put out there to the kids is off putting, too heavy, too clunky, too full of my anxieties and insecurities. And this weekend when I was knee deep in visiting small folk (including kids I met, but not bonded with before) I decided to change the energy I put out there and it really made a difference. We really clicked and connected and had masses of fun and got along in a very different way.
This was a powerful experience for me, and it's made me think a lot more deeply of all my relationships and how the present/future ones might be transformed by changes in me.
But I am the veteran of having relationships with Saggitarius and I remain close friends with the vast majority of my Sagittarian exes. I have to say for the most part, those relationships were excellent. They were tender and kind and respectful and exciting and oh my god hysterically funny. So obviously, not every Saggitarian is a loser, nor are they all selfish. Indeed many of them have Sun conjunct Neptune and if they're not all over the place getting drunk and drugged out then they can be very very sensitive and giving indeed.
Indeed, I know lots of other Saggi men who were not only married but devoted to their spouses. My Sagittarian uncle and Scorpio aunt have been married for forty years and he's just as adoring of her now as he's been ever since I can remember. A Sagittarian friend was married to his Cancer wife for thirty something years, and totally in love with her up until she died of lung cancer (instead he took early retirement so that he could help look after her). A Sagittarius friend has put on hold his own desire to have children because he's chosen to stay with a woman who cannot have any. When we were dating, and I was ill, my husband used to drive to his house from work then go shopping for soups and DVDs, drive over to my house, cook me food and cheer me up, spend the night for the pleasure of listening me retch and cough and then drive to work from my house in the morning to work (thereby doubling his commuting time). This wasn't just a one time thing, since that winter I was ill quite often. Incidentally, I also remember that after my Dad died my Sagittarian uncle used to take me out each afternoon to teach me how to ride a bike. I was an adolescent and clumsy and he must have been very tired but I never knew it because he was nothing but patient and caring and never grumbled. Do these sound like the actions of selfish, self-indulgent men? I think not. I also know lots more examples like this from different Saggitarians who were loving and giving and kind beyond the call of duty, but I've cited here the examples of people I know best.
So I really wonder out of all the great Saggitarians out there, who I know for sure exist, why you seem to draw the losers? (Genuine question, no snark)
124 -
JC
Aug 30, 2006 at 10:59 am
I wonder that as well. I don't think it's all attributed to their sign. The man himself revealed who he was from the beginning and I chose to accept it.
He was just a flaky loser period, no matter what his astrological sign was.
He was a waste of 7 months of my life, but I'm not bitter. I had some beautiful experience, I had some fun and I learned that I can be a wonderful woman to someone.
No bitterness, no anger. Just live and learn and move on.
125 -
Bashful
Aug 30, 2006 at 1:50 pm
You guys with Sag problems should read a book called "why men love bitches"....from what I've read and experienced it might as well be called why Sags love bitches. I loved one and treated him kindly until he did something to hurt me. From that day on, I treated him like shit half of the time and starting then, he became basically my love slave. Tolerating everything I was doing, and even excusing it in some cases. It is wrong to treat the one you love badly but I learned early on that with this sag, it would be no other way; it was either him being hurt or me being hurt. And as a scorpio, I do not enjoy/do well with hurt. Too insecure and sometimes cold to deal with that.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - DualFish
JC--I just read your post. Goodness, you're in as deep as me. How can I say anything to you, when I'm just as lost in my Sag? I told her "see ya never" four weeks ago, and 4 days ago, she's begging, showing up at my door, telling me all sorts of things to get me to agree to see her again and to "be together"--again. Sucker, me, I saw her and now she's calling me every night, wants to see me all the time (I won't let her), and wants to plan this/that. Thing is...I think because I kept away, we're back to the "chase" mode...like when we first met. If you let a Sag catch you AND keep you, you become boring. If you want to keep them chasing, keep running, and stop every once in a while and allow yourself to be "caught". But how long can this chase mode continue? I know I'll get tired of running soon enough, and when my Sag gets bored because I'm not acting like prey, but want to be caught, we'll call it quits again; I'm almost certain. That's when I'll take my re-injured heart back from her to heal, and then find someone who will be there when I want to stop running, and just want to stand still with them. Because, frankly, I doubt the last woman standing for me will be my Sag. I'd like it to be, but yeah..I doubt it. History has shown me otherwise.
So for now, JC...you and I are both back in the "game"...but boy, I hope neither of us gets burnt too badly.
Good luck to you...update as we go. I'm sure my stories will get dramatic before too long. You? ;)
DualFish
77 - joey alarilla
hi elsa, i'm a sagittarian ("sag man" sounds a bit strange -- like something's supposed to sag, heh) and boy, it's almost scary how much i can relate to what you said.
yup, i want to love and be loved, but at the same time i have this almost insane need not to be tied down. so i guess this is true for most sagittarians?
commitment was always a scary thing for me, and while i love my wife, many of our disagreements stem from the fact that i'm obsessed with my need to be free. her sign's pisces, by the way.
i dunno if it's true for most sadges but i generally find it easier to deal with ideas than emotions. i always want something new.
ok, i'm babbling, heh. thanks for this article!
78 - JC
DualFish: Yeah, I'm back. I ran and he caught me, now I'm sprung again. I can't do the whole, "maybe I'm interested, maybe I'm not". I love hard and smother with affection.
He's in Georgia now and we txt a couple of times and spoke a few. I called a lot today and he hasn't responded.
We'll see if I can calm down this week and do the whole chase thing. I'm in love, but sometimes a mess cause I don't get the communication or all the attention I desire.
79 - DualFish
JC: Don't you love how we start by being chased by the Sag and end up doing the chasing ourselves in the end? I've learned the hard way to let mine go and be free as she likes. Heres's an example: she and I both work in front of computers all day--different fields, but I see her online and she sees me. Many-a-times I'd say "hi, how are you" to her, only to be treated with either a "hi, baby!" for no apparent reason...or a "hi, hang on, busy". Hot and cold. So nowadays, I just do nothing. I see her online...HOURS go by (we're both online since 9 a.m.)...before she finally gets annoyed at waiting for me to initiate contact...sometimes it gets to be 2-3 p.m. when she'll suddenly say, "You there?" YUP, I'm here, but I'm not chasing YOU. So I say, "Yep"...and she's all chat chat chat, but if I respond at all and get a little into the conversation, then she's suddenly, "hang on, brb"...and off she goes again. Hot and cold.
Exhausting. My advice? Stop chasing. Go and have your own life. Pretend as if you two are NOT talking at all. Let him be in Georgia and you live your life as if you two had not re-united. Let him call you. If he texts, respond...but wait a while before you do. If he calls, take your time calling back, unless it's "urgent". Yea, you want to love hard...and so do I, but you know? What "love hard" might mean to you and me...is not the same to the Sag's, I've learned.
Personally, I'm tired of the "chasing" game. In fact, it's become a touch boring for me, and the stability of just being with someone who wants you there and doesn't mind telling you and showing you would be just great!
Oh, and JOEY...Sag and Pisces, eh? I'm a Pisces. What is it with you Sag's and chasing us Pisces? ;)
DualFish
80 - satori
can we turn this into group therapy? you all seem to be telling my story in one form or other. I'm pisces. I'm starting to hate him... yet I crave him. I hate this game and I don't want to play. He feels like an addiction. I feel bereft because loving him after knowing all this makes me feel like less of a person.
81 - JC
That's exactly what they are......an addiction. You hate it but you kind of love it.
82 - DualFish
I second and third that! Addictive relationships--it's a real thing. Google it. I have...
Crazy.
DualFish
83 - Nia
dearie me, am I the only one having a very happy long-term relationship with a Sagittarius here?
No I don't find him too rushed in bed. Definately faster sex than with previous Pisces lovers of yore but to be honest sex that goes on for hours gets a bit boring for me.
I love Sagittarius men unashamedly, and for the most part I've had extremely happy relationships with them. Perhaps this is because I have Jupiter rising and I'm pretty independent myself so even though I am a Cancerian and like security I don't really feel the need to cling.
There are things about Sagittarius I knew when I married him
* tendency to not just be able to say "I'm sorry" or give a short, simple answer but must instead launch into a convoluted (and often hilarious) theory instead.
* tendency to go out for a simple task(buy some bread) and come back three hours later via Galapagos Islands with some interesting but unrelated gadgets.
But overall even though I left him plenty of space I've never known him to really want to leave home. The only exception was when he changed jobs and really liked all the people at work and was going out with them all the time until I got irate and put my foot down and we compromised (x days of the week for friends, x days of the week for spending time with wife).
Maybe it helps that he has a Taurus Rising but he's been constant and faithful and patient and stood by me through illness and struggle (queue: "How can you love me, I'm just a crazy bitch!" "True, but you're MY crazy bitch...")
A lot depends on your chart and its inherent needs, and a lot depends on the chart of the individual Sag, but I have never found Sag to be inherently rubbish in relationships or incapable of sustained intimacy and commitment.
84 - B
Aww thanks Nia. That's what i needed. I thought i was nuts or overlooking something, but i really am happy with my sag. I've never been so happy, and i've had a fare share and variety of men. With the exception of his cheating, we've passed it, and i never feel stupid for being with him, so i guess that's a good sign right? We're going to marry soon also. I do feel right about it, and now with ur indirect blessing, i feel very comfortable with it. Thanks Nia, and all the best girl.
85 - lovewarrior
Hi, i'm taurus but have stationary venus in aries trine mars in sag and jupiter in 7th and it seems every man i've dated has a sag influence be it sun,moon,asc,etc. Noticed a few other taureans on here with saggi beaus which kinda soothed me as we're so often told we're incompatible (maybe we are but maybe thats the attraction). Of my 2 closest friends 1 is sag and the other sag rising and my sister is a double (sun & moon). Cant seem to escape the energy and mostly i dont want to even when they're driving me completely insane.
I think what attracts me is their sense of fun (sometimes bordering on recklessness admittedly) and their refusal to bow down to the man. They say what they think and do what they want and i guess i'm admiral of that until it clashes with what i want. Then i rant and rave and completely lose it and you know what they never bat an eyelid, just carry on as before. They even seem to get a kick out of my rants and raves, they like people who are not afraid to say what they think and dont mind if it differs from their own views cos they're learning and sag's love to expand their minds. They also have a quite lovable optimism and faith in the future that greatly appeals to my over analytical virgoan (have a stellium in virgo-moon,jup,plu,uranus in 7th)neurosis'. In short they cheer me up and give me hope. I think for me it helps if they have a receptive moon as i personally feel that moons are more important in compatibility. But i need their energy in my life and it seems i cant avoid it even if i try.
86 - satori
Nia, you said, "Perhaps this is because I have Jupiter rising and I'm pretty independent myself so even though I am a Cancerian and like security I don't really feel the need to cling." I'm sure you didn't intend to infer that we DO cling, but it does sound that way. I've got a fair bit of Leo-Aries independence myself. My experience is that attempts to enforce boundaries or have and express feelings are interpreted as clinging by the sadges in my life.
Also, your sadge married. The sadge I'm thinking of will never marry. I'm sure there's a spectrum from Peter Pan to sadges who show their boy/girl-ishness in more mature ways. I think this discussion follows the former and while it's nice to hear sadge can be expressed so beautifully, that's not really what the pain you see expressed here is about. it's about the lower expression that many of us are dealing with.
87 - JC
That's my problem. I'm a leo and I want praise and compulsive attention. If you don't return my calls or txt immediately I assume your insulting me. I can be very extreme and clingy which I'm working on.
It's obvious I have to show I have a full and fulfilling life, outside of my relationship with him, so he can see he is not being chased.
88 - Nia
Satori I certainly didn't mean to infer that EVERY Cancerian clings but I have known a great fair few who do. I cling to material things, and it's taken me a long time to let people go partially because I know how annoying I find it when people want too much of me.
It's all relative though, all part of the spectrum. What is normal intimacy to one person is another's clinginess and suffocation. I think people should be true to their needs, and wanting to hang onto something/someone is not intrinsically wrong at all. Everyone has needs after all, and it's good to honour them. It just becomes a problem when the other person doesn't like it and tells you to loosen your grip, please and that's a problem that can plague Sagittarius/Aquarius and Cancer.
It's all about keeping a balance. Physically I have a very hands on relationship with my partner - when we're home alone chances are I'm in his arms and around his neck like a koala while emotionally I'm a lot more laid back and try not to be limiting. Luckily this is something that suits both of us.
My experience is that attempts to enforce boundaries or have and express feelings are interpreted as clinging by the sadges in my life.
That sounds both unfortunate and frustrating. Have discussion and compromise been options?In my experience people who feel frightened of the emotions of others generally feel frightened of their own, and I think it’s found across every Sun sign.
In the past I’ve certainly had relationships with people where my nature and theirs clashed in ways that proved to be frustrating and unresolvable for both parties, not because either’s needs were wrong but simply because at that time they were incompatible.
The sadge I'm thinking of will never marry. I'm sure there's a spectrum from Peter Pan to sadges who show their boy/girl-ishness in more mature ways. I think this discussion follows the former and while it's nice to hear sadge can be expressed so beautifully, that's not really what the pain you see expressed here is about. it's about the lower expression that many of us are dealing with.
Although I wouldn’t classify the lack of desire to marry/settle as necessarily immature I can totally understand the pain of people feeling let down by their partners and I don’t mean to knock that at all. The point of my post was not to invalidate that experience but to reassure people that not every Sagittarius is a lousy lover and commitmentphobic and that yes, it is possible to have happy relationships â€" so that they aren't freaked out and put off at the start by thinking it will all end in tears.
89 - elsa
Regarding Cancers and whether or not they cling, look to the sign position of the Moon (which Cancer rules). For example, I have a Cancer man friend (ex-boyfriend actually) who I have known for 30 years. And he does not cling and never has. However, his Moon is in (detached) Aquarius... :)
90 - B
Thanks again Nia. I've only read all the negatives, and i am a realist, so i knew there had to be somethings wonderful about the sag man. I felt it, and experience it everyday with him, so i really just wanted to know whether there were other cases of that, and that it wasn't just all in my head.
I too am the same at home. He loves the affection i show him, and as touchy feely as i am, i also understand that this is a man who strongly has and undertakes his interests and hobbies.
When we r in each other's company, i feel fantastic. He is sweet, soft-spoken but direct, enlightening and just beautiful to gaze at.
So in conclusion, the male sag can be a great man, it's just up to him. My partner told me that 5yrs ago, he was not this eager to commit or felt the need to love, cuz he just felt he wasn't ready. So really, i guess it's a matter of meeting a sag at the right time...when they're ripe.
91 - JC
Well things are going okay with my Saggie man and I. The only thing is (here is TMI coming) I lost my virginity to this Sag man and I'm a novice sexually. The one thing about my sag is the coming to quickly and I read that in astrology books that Saggie men come quickly and sex is not intense for them. I am a very emotional person. I cry during sex and I want sex to last at least 30min and not 7 or 10min.
The fourplay is good, but the actual sex is over very quickly. It's very intense and emotional but doesn't last long.
Does anyone else experience this with their Saggie men.
I want my sex life to get better and last longer
92 - Nia
Dear JC,
I can’t remember that sex being too short was a problem associated with any of my Saggi lovers. If I’d attach an astrological significator to coming quickly then I’d attach it to Moon in Aries. (I’m not saying every Aries Moon fires its shot too soon, but anecdotal evidence from several astrologers suggest that it’s a pattern they’ve noticed; Also my husband him of the Aries Moon and Mars doesn’t have that issue, but then there’s also a Taurus Ascendant and Venus in Capricorn to compensate).
How old is your Saggie? One thing Z continuously says is that he was very different at 22 than at 30 (when I met him, and when he’d slowed down and patienced up considerably). Age is a big factor, and people tend to be very different after their Saturn return. On the other hand I know another fabulous Sag who got married and had children in his 20s and is spending his forties happily unmarried, enjoying a succession of relationships that won’t lead to a wedding or more children, and that’s fair enough.
I don’t think you should settle in relationships, sexually or otherwise, for something that is less than what you want/need because it won’t make you happy, or your partner happy.
Entering sex, discovering your sexuality â€" those are joyful things! Exciting things! A wonderful time to learn about your needs and desires and what gives pleasure, as you are already doing. There is no need on this journey to limit yourself to one man, especially if he’s not giving you what you need. The world is full of men!
Everyone, everyone, has different needs and sexual styles. It’s like personality â€" there’s some room for compromise but ultimately if it isn’t working then stop trying to make it fit and move on to something that flows more easily, more joyfully. The world, after all, is full of people who you can learn things from â€" inside the bed and outside of it.
I don’t think there’s one right way to have sex. If you want to cry and cuddle and make love as your souls entwine, then that’s fair enough. There are certainly plenty of people who want the same things, and will be able to meet that need. Perhaps, it’s also something that your current lover wishes to do, and there’s certainly techniques aplenty about how to delay the male orgasm and last longer (off the top of my head I remember Tracy Cox talking about it on The Sex Inspectors; there’s certainly books out there about it). Tantric sex is another avenue you may want to investigate â€" as it’s all about the deep connections and Sag tends to love learning about new things/ideas so you may both get a kick out of it.
Ultimately though, perhaps the things you want and make you happy are not compatible with one another and cannot be made to fit. In that case there’s no shame in that, nor letting each other go and allowing people who fit those needs better to come into your life instead.
Best of luck.
93 - Nia
Lol B, now I have Ripe Sagittarius Men! Come get your perfectly ripe Sagittarius Men here! Come get them before they fall off the branch and spoil! running through me brains.
I think it's very true what you say - Sag is a wonderful beast but you need to meet them in the right context, at the right time. I used to wonder why most of the people I got attached to had a Sagittarius Moon and then I realised I loved them all because they were so freaking hilarious.
So in conclusion - Sagittarius, It Doesn't Have to End in Tears ;)
94 - DualFish
I have to vent: will things NEVER calm down with my Sag and me? EVER? She was begging and pleading with me, only last week, that she wants to have 'peace' between us and can we try to take things slow? Sure, fine. In a matter of 8 days, she starts to flake out on plans--again--and then she says, when I finally told her that she's being flakey and unreliable again..she goes, "We need a break". She does this all the time! I finally told her to grow up and not to come to me to kiss her boo-boo's better, because I'm not her mommy and she needs to take it elsewhere. What a moron!
Besides which, I think I have a better than average understanding of Sag's, since my Moon is in Sag. But it doesn't help with this one, that's for sure.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
DualFish
95 - Daisy
wow.
how I love to tune in to hear the latest drama. This is better than a soap opera anyday!
96 - satori
It's been my experience that a lover who tells you they just want to be friends is probably incapable of sustaining either type of relationship.
97 - DualFish
My Saggie is a certified dummie. I'm tired of her 'games'. One day she loves me, next day she's 'angry' with me..it's like, she doesn't even need me there really to play out her 'drama'.
I tried to reason with her--again--to be like, look this cyclical thing between us is not normal. Can we talk about it? Her response, "I'm not ready today". What a control freak! So many times I've said to her I don't want to talk to her at all, and she's harrassed me, calling/texting/emailing/instant messaging...and I've said, "LEAVE ME ALONE" and she wouldn't listen. Now that I'm saying, "Look this not talking again thing is dumb, lets not do it again," she says, "Today, this is how I feel." Okay, WHATEVER. As if I'm waiting for her mood to change, and mine will HAVE to change along with it. NOT.
So I told her I'll leave her alone, if she leaves me alone permanently, too. She said, "Don't worry, I will". Yes, I've heard THAT one 5 million times, until two weeks pass, and she comes around and stalks me again. What a dummie.
I blocked her from my instant message. I'm going to change my tel. #'s, too. I was obviously delusional to think I could talk reason to this one...
DualFish
98 - satori
ah, DualFish, I really hear you. the supposed love of my life that I've been dealing with hangs up on me on a whim. the last time, he asked me if I was okay (after telling me about another woman he'd been talking with and admitting there was an interest there) and when I paused before answering HE HUNG UP! not the first time, just an example. then he didn't speak to me for a week!
recently he decided we were moving too fast (hadn't seen him in person in a month) and we need to "just be friends". I said it sounds like we're done. "well if that's the way you want to interpret it". so today I called and left a message (I knew he wouldn't answer) telling him I need to get over him and told him not to contact me for a month. we have a child together so that complicates things (we were never married).
thankfully I know he WON'T contact me, probably ever again. he'll be on to the next one. good effing riddance.
I go back and forth between grief and anger.
99 - JC
Looks like my Sag is back to his old behavior. He was supposed to come by today. I bought wine and all kind of treats, he didn't even call to say something came up or something happen. Just no notificatiion.
Why are they so heartless when it comes to their partner's schedule and plans.
Selfish and wishy washy.
And comes to quick. What am I doing
100 - satori
well, if it helps, I truly understand and I am SO, SO sorry. your feelings matter, and you have value and are worthy of respect.
101 - JC
Thanks.
Looks DualFish is going through the rollercoaster too. I called and called all day yesterday and his phone was off. No call from another phone to say "Baby I can't make it". Just left me hanging in my apt waiting with a hot dinner all alone.
This is ridiculous. You would think you give a man $300 2 weeks ago so he can fly to the south to be with his child, that he'd be more apt at showing appreciation for me.
But he comes back and just spends time with me for 1 day out of the week, then promises to see me on Sunday, but leaves me hanging.
This really make me feel like crap.
102 - Nia
Dear people with problematic partners,
You're right, your feelings are valuable and DO matter! So if your partners are treating in you in ways you find unacceptable the most elegant solution might be to dump their asses. Because you can go on all you want about how something is not right but as long as you stay with that person you are indirectly also telling them it's OK, that you're willing to put up with it and that they won't have to deal with the consequences of acting like asshats.
Love, especially love of your life is not supposed to make you feel like shit unless you like the drama and the pain. It takes two people to create a particular dynamic (I speak from painful personal experience) and it's created by someone doing something unacceptable and the other person letting them get away with it, thereby reinforcing the message that it's all right to continue doing it. And if you really don't like it, then put down some boundaries and ground rules and stick to them, at which point the other person has the choice to either change or leave.
It sounds much easier to say than to put into practice of course, but usually it's the only way.
If you don't want to dialogue with someone, simply don't engage. Don't answer when they ring, or if you do just put down the phone. Don't answer their letters. This is more effective than saying LEAVE ME ALONe because as long as you're saying anything you're still talking and this encourages further dialogue. On the other hand blank silence does work because eventually they get the message of no reinforcement at all and then they stop.
If my husband didn't show up for plans he'd made with me and didn't call, I'd read him the riot act. If a lover pulled the same stunt then they'd have to work their little asses of to convince me to see them again. I'm all for being understanding and forgiving, and there are times when people forget or get sidetracked or something. But if it becomes a repeat pattern... in my opinion life is too short to put up with that bollocks.
Best of luck
103 - B
Nice advice, but i begin to wonder, perhaps saggies are different in the UK. Just wondering. U are blessed though, u realise that??? But u are also wise...
104 - DualFish
Yes, apparently, every time we dialogue with our Sag's, they get us back on the roller coaster. Listen, I'm all for the excitement of a roller coaster ride, but if that's all I'm ever on...high high's, and low low's, I'm bound to vomit eventually, get a headache, a brain contusion, and lots of aches and pains. LOTS. I've already done the verbal vomiting, and my brain hurts from thinking, "WHY does this keep happening?" At the end of the day, best to get off the ride and get on something more stable, more calm, and less nauseating.
Satori--that sucks that he won't even be responsible to his own child. But then again, why am I not surprised? Sag's are BIG children themselves and it's all about "me, me, me".
JC--sorry to hear your Sag is up to his old ways again. Honestly, these people won't change--and when I say "change"...I mean learning to treat their partners as valuable, and treating them well. If they didn't do it to begin with, they're not about to start now. Although, frankly, I think that's a load of crap (bollocks, per Nia) on their end, because they CHOOSE not to change, not because they can't. They get what they want, how they want it, and on their own selfish terms, so why bother changing?
I read in a book this morning, "A person can only change if he/she wants to, and if you stay around hoping they will change, realize that a person won't even try to change if a situation doesn't become uncomfortable enough for them TO change--as in, you leave, and if they love you and realize they need to change to get you back, then they might. But as long as they get what they want, they won't change. There is no real incentive to do so, especially if you stick around, take their crap, and hope for the best." I think that's VERY true.
Sags: Selfish. Self-centered. Inconsiderate. Rude. Thoughtless. Self-serving. Liars. Players. And did I mention, selfish?
Chaps my behind...
DualFish
105 - JC
More Drama: I called today cursing him out saying why did he not call, then he called later saying he was in jail for a day because of a ticket and a warrant because of old tickets.
Then the police picked him up and took him to jail for the night and took his phone.
Then he had his brother call me, but supposedly the brother called the wrong number, so then he got me and his brother on the phone to tell me that he really did get arrested.
Then he got mad at me, because I said it's always something with him, and he said- Your mad that I didn't come to dinner! Then he said I have to go to work, bye!
He was really nasty and short with me and made me feel like I was a wicked bitch because I was still upset. He thought well I'm telling you now what happened so just suck it up.
106 - JC
More Drama: I called today cursing him out saying why did he not call, then he called later saying he was in jail for a day because of a ticket and a warrant because of old tickets.
Then the police picked him up and took him to jail for the night and took his phone.
Then he had his brother call me, but supposedly the brother called the wrong number, so then he got me and his brother on the phone to tell me that he really did get arrested.
Then he got mad at me, because I said it's always something with him, and he said- Your mad that I didn't come to dinner! Then he said I have to go to work, bye!
He was really nasty and short with me and made me feel like I was a wicked bitch because I was still upset. He thought well I'm telling you now what happened so just suck it up.
107 - satori
Maybe it's my capricorn, but where's the healthy shame over being in JAIL?? My friends and I have a term we use when we realize we've been dominating the convo: "Oh, sorry I went All About Me!"
You should forget whatever petty concern YOU have cos whatever is going on with him trumps yours. always. He's the center of the universe, I guess, except I've heard God is far more magnanimous.
and DualFish-- amen. thanks for venting cos it makes me feel all "OH YEAH" inside.
Nia... we're venting here. we all seem pretty intelligent and really do know the score. Sometimes people need somewhere safe to vent, somewhere people really do understand what you're talking about. We already know the Dr. Phil thang on this one. When we're done going 'round, we'll be done. We all intellectually know the score. Right here is where we're venting our spleen.
108 - JC
I am so hurt. I apologized (Like a dummy) for my indifference towards him and he's treating me like dirt.
I have to be strong and leave him alone once and for all.
109 - Nia
Nia... we're venting here. we all seem pretty intelligent and really do know the score. Sometimes people need somewhere safe to vent, somewhere people really do understand what you're talking about.
Fair do. :) Vent away. It's your pity party and you can cry if you want to.
I'm sorry if my advice is obsolete and indeed as you say, people are allowed to go 'round as long as they want to.
Also my glib tone masks the fact that I really do have deep sympathies for people who are in unsatisfactory relationships, being a veteran of those myself. However I do get irked by the whole *blame it on the Sag* attitude as opposed to *Some people are asshats, regardless of sun sign*. Actually, I get pretty irked with the whole *blame someone else* thing(unless it's the Blame Canada song in the South Park movie, which is just funny) because it's not constructive to recognising your own part in the drama you're creating, or its re-creation with that person or the next one who comes along.
On the other hand I apologise for my Virgo-Rising desire to make things all constructive and practical - if that's not what you're after that's your sacred right and fine enough by me.
I'm sorry if I offend and I probably should have let this thread go a while back but I admit to being somewhat mesmerised by the drama.
110 - JC
This particular blog is about Sagittarius people and your dealings and queries regarding that sign. It just morphed into variuos people commenting on their experiences with Saggies
Do not overanalyze or critizize our little discussion.
Somethimes you need to vent. We are logical and know that we add some dysfunctionto a relationship as well, but for right now we just want to vent.
Can we live? Geesh!
111 - satori
Yeah... (sarcasm on:) thanks Nia, for slamming us about our self-pity. that really helps people who are hurting, who are trying really hard to rise above self-pity and be healthy. I've been really strong about fending off unwanted communications from the sadge in my life, but it took a Virgo rising to break the floodgates and make the Pisces cry. GOOD JOB. thanks.
112 - Shock
Well... after seeing a lot of comment posted on
this blog , i feel as if the rest of the signs have made up a certain level of dishonety tag attached to the sags.i mean i madly love a leo woman with all my heart and cant to seem to take eyes of her.i m a sag and so is my father, believe me he has never cheated in his entire life nor has he gambled.Its just the fact that only some sags are truly born with their entire traits.they are simply like a wild stallions who need to be cared and tendered all the time . and loyalty and honesty is what u get . im not a drinker ....helll i dont even drink tea.i never gamble,and am quite popular in the social circuits.and for all the leo women who truly possess their qualities for real,you bring out the best in sagittarians.once u understand a sag he'll give u years of wonderful experiences
113 - JC
I'm a leo woman to the fullest, Shock. They said leo's can tame the Sag man, but that's bull. He has treated me the worst and gave him the best.
No more whatsoever! They're only good for casual affairs, not long lasting relationships.
114 - duane
I had a 3-year relationship with a woman who is a teacher. It didn't work out after all that. Teachers are all the same. Therefore, I will never date a teacher again. They are not good for long-lasting relationships.
115 - JC
Duane: Stop making fun of us. We're just venting.
116 - duane
OK. Venting is good.
Carry on.
117 - roger
Maybe Duane vents through mockery at the Miss Havisham act.
I thought Leos were meant to be the self-centered stars of the horoscope not Sag...or maybe everyone has the capacity to be selfish if they can get away with it, but what do I know, I'm just a Taurus.
118 - Victor Plenty
Look at all the rewards for being self-centered. Instead of getting dumped, these men have got women twisting themselves into pretzels trying to figure out some way to keep their self-centered guy from running off and treating someone else like dirt.
119 - DualFish
I'm still going with, Sag's are selfish--selfish and self-centered as a 5-year old can be. It's all about "me, me, me" with them, and their "needs" are ALL that matter--to them. I've dated all the signs, btw, and Leos are definitely in need of attention, but I've found them to be generous and be able to reciprocate the attention they seek. In my experience, the other selfish sign is Aries...but I'm not going to generalize, because I've only ever dated two.
As for Sags...as long as you do what THEY want, and what makes THEM feel good at a constant, they'll come around for you often...but the minute you stop "giving" to them, they disappear and seek good times elsewhere. Heavens forbid reality should come knocking and take them out of their La La Land where everything is just peachy--that's when you'll see the back of them. My response to that is: Buh Bye.
That's been my experience, and yes, I've dated other Sag's, too.
DualFish
120 - Taurus 32
I am TAURUS female trying to arrange time with Mr SAGGY what a nightmare if I wasn't so in to him I think I would give up! I guess it that cheeky smile and gift of the gab he as been gifted.
121 - JC
I am officially done. No joke.
We have reached the end. I haven't spoken to him in 8 days and I am fine.
We are through and I feel good about it. It's a relief and now that I am sure I know I can work on myself and get ready for something wonderful to come into my life.
122 - lillie
You go girl. He's the looser here. You deserve better.
123 - Nia
Dear JC and DualFish, well done on saying goodbye to those who made you unhappy! I certainly hope that the next time round someone who will enters your lives.
Although what DualFish says of her experience with Sagittarius really makes me curious, since DualFish has a Saggi Moon herself and I would have thought it would spark more affinity. Unless the Sun and Moon are in square or involved in some messy configurations in the chart so the Saggi moon gets projected outwards or something... I don't know.
But I was thinking about all this quite a bit over the weekend, and generically about the energy we put out there and what comes of it and who we attract.
So DualFish if you decide Saggies are not for you - then fair enough. Most Aries aren't really for me not because Aries sucks but because we tend to rub each other up the wrong way (the behaviour that my Leo friend brands *Magnificent* I tend to classify as *Irritating*; so each to their own and so on).
I don't often get along with children. I don't always know how to be playful or meet them on their level and their questions are laregely a source of irritation rather than amusement, and often children don't naturally click with me either. (On the other hand they love my husband- Saggittarius Sun and my colleague- Sagittarius Moon and Rising, and are all over them from the get go). And I thought maybe the energy I put out there to the kids is off putting, too heavy, too clunky, too full of my anxieties and insecurities. And this weekend when I was knee deep in visiting small folk (including kids I met, but not bonded with before) I decided to change the energy I put out there and it really made a difference. We really clicked and connected and had masses of fun and got along in a very different way.
This was a powerful experience for me, and it's made me think a lot more deeply of all my relationships and how the present/future ones might be transformed by changes in me.
But I am the veteran of having relationships with Saggitarius and I remain close friends with the vast majority of my Sagittarian exes. I have to say for the most part, those relationships were excellent. They were tender and kind and respectful and exciting and oh my god hysterically funny. So obviously, not every Saggitarian is a loser, nor are they all selfish. Indeed many of them have Sun conjunct Neptune and if they're not all over the place getting drunk and drugged out then they can be very very sensitive and giving indeed.
Indeed, I know lots of other Saggi men who were not only married but devoted to their spouses. My Sagittarian uncle and Scorpio aunt have been married for forty years and he's just as adoring of her now as he's been ever since I can remember. A Sagittarian friend was married to his Cancer wife for thirty something years, and totally in love with her up until she died of lung cancer (instead he took early retirement so that he could help look after her). A Sagittarius friend has put on hold his own desire to have children because he's chosen to stay with a woman who cannot have any. When we were dating, and I was ill, my husband used to drive to his house from work then go shopping for soups and DVDs, drive over to my house, cook me food and cheer me up, spend the night for the pleasure of listening me retch and cough and then drive to work from my house in the morning to work (thereby doubling his commuting time). This wasn't just a one time thing, since that winter I was ill quite often. Incidentally, I also remember that after my Dad died my Sagittarian uncle used to take me out each afternoon to teach me how to ride a bike. I was an adolescent and clumsy and he must have been very tired but I never knew it because he was nothing but patient and caring and never grumbled. Do these sound like the actions of selfish, self-indulgent men? I think not. I also know lots more examples like this from different Saggitarians who were loving and giving and kind beyond the call of duty, but I've cited here the examples of people I know best.
So I really wonder out of all the great Saggitarians out there, who I know for sure exist, why you seem to draw the losers? (Genuine question, no snark)
124 - JC
I wonder that as well. I don't think it's all attributed to their sign. The man himself revealed who he was from the beginning and I chose to accept it.
He was just a flaky loser period, no matter what his astrological sign was.
He was a waste of 7 months of my life, but I'm not bitter. I had some beautiful experience, I had some fun and I learned that I can be a wonderful woman to someone.
No bitterness, no anger. Just live and learn and move on.
125 - Bashful
You guys with Sag problems should read a book called "why men love bitches"....from what I've read and experienced it might as well be called why Sags love bitches. I loved one and treated him kindly until he did something to hurt me. From that day on, I treated him like shit half of the time and starting then, he became basically my love slave. Tolerating everything I was doing, and even excusing it in some cases. It is wrong to treat the one you love badly but I learned early on that with this sag, it would be no other way; it was either him being hurt or me being hurt. And as a scorpio, I do not enjoy/do well with hurt. Too insecure and sometimes cold to deal with that.