Rosa Parks has gotten more public recognition for less actual accomplishment than any person now living. She could stand to be just a little bit humble.
Rosa Parks really tries my patience. She's been set up as the greatest person in America, an untouchable icon. She's probably the number one living person about whom even almost joking is unacceptable. Indeed, she insists on this point. Negro, puh-lease. In this country, no one is sacrosanct. We're all equal, remember?…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Louis Gross
Al Barger:
I am familiar with Walter Williams in general, but haven't read his books. What gets me about Williams and Tom Sowell is that they seem to hate black people more than white people do. I know they REALLY don't, but that is the stance that they have adopted for some reason. Similar to their predecessor of sorts Booker T. Washington, they aren't going to win any converts like that and those that they do (who hang out at http://www.lewrockwell.com and similar) are not to their credit. Liberalism and statism are bad, but racism is bad too, and I have little use for someone as brilliant as Williams or Sowell who can't or won't make that case. Tony Brown is somewhat better in that regards ... I hate that his PBS show seems to have gone away.
On libertarian in general, I am primarily a social conservative, the opposite of the likes of you. However, government programs of the last 50 or so years have tended to undermine socially conservative principles. I would prefer a government that would reinforce those principles, something that libertarians would clearly hate as much or more than our current one. But no government (or rather an extremely limited one) is better than one that will do everything it can to separate me from my church and my family.
Mac Diva:
Not a blogger, as I do not have the time or the techno savvy. So I just harass bloggers in my spare time.
27 - Al Barger
I don't see how you get the idea that Williams or Sowell "hate" black people at all. Where do you get that?
28 - Louis Gross
I see that my statement "seem to" and "I know that they REALLY don't" were obscured. Williams and Sowell spend a lot of time denouncing the flaws of blacks but dedicate none whatsoever to the flaws of mainstream culture. Like this whole anti - affirmative action bit. Not liking affirmative action is one thing, not liking Jesse Jackson is fine, but geesh, there are far more pressing problems with this society than that. So when they make their obligatory affirmative action - Jesse Jackson denigration in every column, it seems like a minstrel show. As if two white people not getting into MIT this year and Jesse Jackson making a little money are SUCH OFFENSES TO DECENT CIVILIZED SOCIETY or something. You'd think that as LIBERTARIANS they would have objected to Rudy Giuliani's stop - and - frisk policy or something, but nope.
29 - Louis Gross
Al:
I have spent so much time on this thread, I failed to give my opinion on your original column. Well consider this:
The very reason why Rosa Parks is so embraced IS that she did something of so little consequence. Blacks who play a major role in challenging racism and poverty and in the process seek power, influence, and wealth for themselves are HATED by the white mainstream, most of all conservatives. We have this joke in the black community that goes something like this: "Which black leaders are most popular with whites?" Answer: "The ones that are dead!" Well, Rosa Parks has been for all intents and purposes dead since making her stand. Also, blacks being forced to sit on the back of the bus and drink out of certain water fountains in faraway places like Mississippi and Alabama ... those are things of no consequence that would cause the average white person in Ohio or somewhere to say "Oh my GOODNESS, how could they treat THOSE PEOPLE SO BADLY", view themselves as some sort of racial liberal for wanting those injustices overthrown and lionizing the person who got the job done. Because, after all, it is ONLY riding public transportation (I own a car) in Alabama (I live in Ohio). Easy to be a racial progressive when it doesn't affect me.
But when it comes to THOSE TROUBLEMAKING BLACK LEADERS who advocated blacks MOVING INTO MY NEIGHBORHOOD, GOING TO MY SCHOOL, TAKING MY JOB, TAKING MY CHILD'S SPOT IN COLLEGE, OWNING THE NEIGHBORHOOD GROCRY STORE, BECOMING MY MAYOR, AND MARRYING MY DAUGHTER, then THAT'S when it affects ME. In OHIO. So THOSE BLACK LEADERS are the ones that I despise, the ones that want to CHANGE the way that I LIVE MY LIFE and force ME and MY KIDS to COMPETE with 30 million outsiders! My kid not getting into college because some rich white kid who lacked the grades is the child of an alum or knows someone on the Board of Regents, no big deal. But some BLACK KID getting in because of race preferences? OH THE HUMANITY! What EVIL BLACK LEADER DEMANDED THAT! What an OUTRAGE, THESE PEOPLE ARE RUINING OUR COUNTRY, everything was FINE before THEY STARTED TAKING OVER? WHY CAN'T ALL BLACK LEADERS BE LIKE THAT NICE ROSA PARKS?!?! What? Me racist? Of course not! If I was a RACIST, I wouldn't be such A BIG ROSA PARKS FAN!
So sir, you are right about Rosa Parks being so loved and untouchable, but you are very wrong for the reason why. She is no different from any of the other black leaders that mainstream America knows and hates ... and the only reason why Parks is treated any different is that she never ran for Congress or sought an appointment from LBJ or Carter like all the rest did.
30 - Mac Diva
Louis, you've spotted the same problem I've noticed with black conservatives and members of the so-called multiracial movement -- they detest people of African descent and want to distance themselves from us. For example, a spokesperson for the multiracial movement had a strange reaction to the Essie Washington-Williams story. She said that the young black house maid made pregnant and left to starve by her employer should have been flattered by the attention because the man was white. Hello?
I have read enough of Walter Williams to know he is fairly typical of his ilk. He is a member of the neo-Confederate movement and has even embraced white supremacists. Furthermore, he wants the South to secede from the union so we can go back to the good ole days. This profile explains the man pretty well. Perhaps with older folks like Williams, the hatred of the African in themselves and anyone else comes from the brainwashing that was so common among the black bourgeoisie not so long ago.
And, you know, Louis, I don't believe people like Williams matter much for people of color. Clowns like him are created for the purpose of reassuring white bigots that racism is just fine, thank you. Barger recently cited Phyllis Schafly as a role model for women. Now, he cites a black neo-Confederate seccesionist as a role model for people of color. He really knows how to pick'em.
31 - Ms. Tek
:*(
32 - Dan
MD, I researched Dr. Benjamin Carson. There is a lot of information on him. Not surprisingly, I could find no hint that he ever benefited from any sort of affirmative action at all. His mother pushed him at an early age, he graduated with honors from a Detroit high school, received an academic scholorship to Yale, then returned to MU for medical school. It seems he got where he is on merit, the same way a white man must do. In fact the good Doctor has advanced a proposal for a "compassionate action" model for preferential admission to selective colleges and universities on the basis of socioeconomic status rather than race. While I'm not a robust advocate of screwing rich kids, this would have the effect of disproportionately helping minorities-- thus pleasing you and Louis, while retaining a colorblindness that would tend to satisfy fairer minded folks like Al and myself.
Unless I'm missing something, your invoking of the honorable and meritorious Dr. Carsons name in a discussion about affirmative action is about as relevant as your apparent obsessive fascination with my penis. A word of caution: as a woman of color, this pre-occupation with sex organs plays to an unfortunate and unflattering stereotype.
For a more relevant affirmative action model, I would suggest you research a Dr. Patrick Chavis.
33 - Al Barger
Diva, I will thank you to not make cheap unwarranted racist stereotyped attacks against a distinguished professor and author such as Walter Williams. You pretty much just called him a self-hating Tom, a "clown."
In fact, Dr Williams is a distinguished professor of economics, with many outstanding books to his credit. He is in fact a proud black American who would no doubt regard it as UNproud, and shameful to constantly go around pleading for the government to come get you what you can't get for yourself.
This comment is particularly dumb: Clowns like him are created for the purpose of reassuring white bigots that racism is just fine
That's just wickedness and dishonesty to de-humanize and de-legitimize a distinguished gentleman, and one of the finest minds around of any race.
Where'd you get that from, anyway? It certainly has nothing to do with his work.
34 - Mac Diva
"Distinguished gentleman"? Walter Williams is a crackpot. And, you are a fool for citing him, Barger.
As usual, your laziness, reflected in your refusal to do research before you open your virtual mouth, is showing. You should have known better than to cite Williams.
35 - Mac Diva
The only penis I have ever expressed an interest in in the blogosphere, Dan's, is mainly non-existent. That gets me off the hook for any unseemly interest in genitalia.
(Winks at those in the know.)
36 - GuitarGirl
Apparently, Rosa Parks was really fighting for Negros right to puruse BS litigation.
I find the whole controversy around Barbershop to be laughable. And folks who spent their time boycotting the movie really need to find something better to do. Somewhere a child needs a mentor. Better yet, a healthy meal!
Ms. Parks suing folks for using her name is a crying shame. Her PR folks really should have a foot embedded in their rears for encouraging that woman to do that. And if she came up with the idea herself, then it may be time for her to retire from public life because she is simply not making sound decisions.
On all the other stuff that this blog touched off..I will let y'all go at it. Good Times and Sanford and Son are about to come on. ;o)
37 - Al Barger
The GuitarGirl is a naughty provocateur.
Diva, this is the just the kind of thing where you discredit yourself. You make hateful racial accusations against a distinguished professor and author, and call him and me names. Yet you cite no statement of his that is wrong, or any analysis of his that is faulty.
Do you think that your mere expressions of disdain with no other argument whatsoever should be taken to constitute anything other than pure ill-bred rudeness? Why?
As to supposed laziness, I'm pretty familiar with Dr. Williams work, but you seem to be pontificating with absolutely no knowledge of his writing at all.
Broadly, you know that he's some kind of black conservative, so you immediately trot out the evil racist Tom stereotypes. There- uppity independent negro knocked back into place, no need to consider his viewpoint or counter his arguments.
It is apparently simply not possible to disagree with you in any significant way on any issue that you can in any way twist into a racial thing without being labeled either a white supremicist or a Tom.
What do you think you accomplish by this? Do you think that you change people's minds to a more liberal disposition with your promiscuous pimping of the cheap racial invective?
And PLEASE quite throwing yourself at Dan. Your public obsession with his penis is (if I may say discreetly) inappropriate for this public forum.
I'd tell you to get a room, but I doubt that MRS Dan would appreciate that.
38 - Mac Diva
Au contraire. You never cite sources, Barger, because you are too arrogant to admit you don't know everything. I cited a summary of the sins of Walter Williams above. More of the same is readily available for anyone who does a simple Googling. The only folks who have anything positive to say about that narrow headed nonentity are neo-Confederates and other white supremacists.
As far as Dan's wee willie goes (not far at all), I make no apologies for insulting him. He insulted twelve million people. I am only insulting one.
I recommend you get a room at the Dew Drop Inn with Mrs. Dan, Barger. If such a person exists, she would appreciate a Johnson that makes it pass the entryway I'm sure.
39 - Louis Gross
Mac Diva (and Barger and Dan):
One thing that Rosa Parks did that I liked was create a charter school in Detroit. In doing so, she was one of the only members of the black political establishment to support charter schools. Meanwhile, failing public school systems in Atlanta, Detroit, and Washington D.C. have done all they can to undermine charter schools, going to the point of the mayor of city of Detroit turning down a $200 million donation from a private individual to build eight charter high schools there (he tried to get the guy to donate the money to the Detroit School Board instead, but of course the guy declined and now the money will probably just go to the guy's offspring).
A recent audit of Saint Louis Public Schools by a firm run by Rudy Crew, David Dinkins' choice to run New York Public Schools before he was run out by Rudy Giuliani, found out that 72% of Saint Louis' public school system employees weren't public school teachers or administrators and that most of their schools weren't operating anywhere near capacity. They recommended firing excess personnel and closing the half empty schools, and "civil rights leaders" are protesting, claiming that the Saint Louis school system's LONG STANDIING crisis has been caused by the state's Republican governor (and of course George W. Bush) refusing to "adequately fund" the school system forcing them to fire all of those unneeded (and virtually black) employees and shut down those schools. Or at least that was the angle that Al Sharpton presented in Jet Magazine.
Read this article about the D.C. public school system ... it is from CNN, not from Fox News or the Washington Times and is an example of why I support charter schools and vouchers. So Rosa Parks opening that charter school in Detroit is AT LEAST the SECOND MOST IMPORTANT THING that she has done for black folks.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/12/23/capital.schools.ap/index.html
This article below contains the results of Florida's first round of (virtually all black) "voucher kids". 58 kids got the first batch, 38 of them are still in private school, 36 of them have improved their performance.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/7552834.htm
Funny how these things don't make national news like information on Halliburton making a little money does.
40 - bhw
What Dan very clearly and logically said was that the number of whites who suffer from affirmative action would be equal to the number of minority group members who benefit from it. This is obviously true.
No, it's not. AA aims to level the playing field by removing the skin color advantage whites enjoy.
The assumption that affirmative action takes something away from whites is telling. Look at it this way: I think AA takes away an unfair advantage, that of a preferred skin color. White people -- and I'm white, so I can speak to this -- don't "suffer" from AA. But we benefit from the color of our skin all the time.
Anecdotal example: I was tied neck and neck for my first job out of college with a black woman, also just out of college. We had essentially identical resumes and skills: liberal arts majors, language studies, good grades, etc. After I was hired for the position, where I was to sit in the reception area for the company, my boss told me I had the edge over the black woman because she and her boss thought their corporate clients wouldn't be as comfortable being greeted by a black woman as they would by a white woman.
That was a great introduction to the realities and subtleties of race, "fair" competition, and "qualifications only" consideration in America.
So I was apparently more qualified because I had white skin and for no other reason. The friggin' tie-breaker was SKIN COLOR. And I loved my bosses' b.s. laying of blame on their clients' racism rather than their own.
That's why we need AA. AA is not unfair to whites and whites do not suffer from its outcomes.
[I give only an anecdotal example, but if you think this type of racial preference doesn't happen all the time, you're sticking your heads in the sand.]
P.S. Rosa Parks has earned the right to *try* to protect her name and image [whether or not she will or should succeed is another legal matter]. I guess she was a more palatable role model when she didn't make any noise and knew her place.
41 - Dew
I know I ma late but Al this is exactly not the point of Affirmative Action and I think this is where its intent gets tainted with most whites.
The purpose of Affirmative Action is to make sure that well qualified Blacks or Minorities in general do not get passed over because of the color of thier skin.
Ex: If the person who has the power to give me the job is racist against me chances are they will give the position to an under qualified White out of simple spite. AA is suppposedly a combatant against that. Again, its intent gets lost in translation.
Forgive me if this is redundant I stopped reading to post that tidbit.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.
42 - Mac Diva
It is not redundant, Dew. I've tried humor and legal theory in an effort to reach Barger and Diminutive Dan. Perhaps you and bhw's straightforward comments will succeed where mine haven't.
43 - Dan
"Anecdotal example: I was tied neck and neck for my first job out of college with a black woman, also just out of college. We had essentially identical resumes and skills: liberal arts majors, language studies, good grades, etc. After I was hired for the position, where I was to sit in the reception area for the company, my boss told me I had the edge over the black woman because she and her boss thought their corporate clients wouldn't be as comfortable being greeted by a black woman as they would by a white woman."
Yes bhw, I've heard the racist boss/reception area/might turn off clients, story before. The only new twist is that your racist boss was eager to tell a total stranger (you) about his potentially illegal, and damaging racist hiring practices. You know, it's not like there aren't some reasonable arguments for discrimination against white men, AKA affirmative action. You don't need to just make things up. Leave that for MD. BTW, did you accept the job?
MD, I guess your silence on the "tale of two Doctors" (comment #32) means your foot is in your mouth once again? Sorry. How was I to know your Doctors position on preferential academic admissions policy was similar to good ol' diminutive Dans' colorblind socioeconomic status plan? (comment #14) Great minds think alike I suppose. Will this make him an Uncle Tom?
44 - Mac Diva
bhw, Dithering Dan is a very sexually frustrated man, so don't be offended by his rudeness. Why, if one believed him, one would believe white people don't discuss racial discrimination among themselves as if there is nothing wrong with it. But, I know many of them do. Doing so is part of white privilege.
Ben Carson comes from a single-parent family that lived in poverty. His mother could barely read and write. He is exactly the kind of person anti-affirmative action advocates would consign to picking up trash while allowing Al Barger to perform brain surgery. Ben told me (yes, I know him) that it frightens him how close he came to not getting the opportunities that allowed him to become the great contributor to America and the world he is. But for affirmative action, including scholarships, no one would ever have heard of the best brain surgeon in America.
45 - Dan
Louis, Doing something about the shameful state of urban schools is a common theme in Dr. Walter Williams' column. A life-long educator himself, he frequently brings to light examples of where charter schools have succeeded fantastically in areas of the Country that Public Schools have failed miserably. A proponent of school vouchers, he also sheds light on the hypocrisy of the liberal educational establishment that fights against them tooth and nail.
46 - HW Saxton Jr
It seems the subject matter here as it
was originally posted has gotten left in
the dust.The original & well made point
here is that Ms.Parks is full of herself
and she's swinging a double edged sword.
Had Outkast put out a song lauding her,
IMHO,rather small contribution to the
Civil Rights movement,not a single word
would've been spoken.The same principles
Rosa claims to represent(the freedom of
expression,amongst others)she has chosen
to deny Outkast.Ms.Parks has gotten her
due several times over by this stage of
the game.There are millions & millions
of Americans out there who quietly have
chosen to live their lives in a state of
color blindness,acceptance & tolerance.
People who appreciate and enjoy diverse
cultural influence(s)and each other,
are intelligent enough to do so consciously,
yet humble enough not to seek out credit
for doing so.Ms.Parks could learn a lesson
from them.
47 - Mac Diva
Louis, Walter Williams, a quisling oft-cited by reactionary white folks, would like to eliminate everything provided by the government. In fact, he is in favor of the South seceding from the Union and forming the kind of government favored by neo-Confederates. In their ideal world, only property owning Christian white men would be allowed to vote. Why would an African-American support such views? Williams and his friend, J.J. Johnson, resigned from the race a couple years ago. They are actually crazy enough to believe that a bunch of racist white men -- the neo-Confederate movement -- have their best interest at heart. Here is a recent column, from, you guessed it, a far Right site, in which Williams pitches secession.
48 - Mac Diva
Oh, Gawd, another one of those 'that black bitch Rosa Parks still don't know her place' folks pipes up. And, some people tell me racism is over.
Interestingly, Barger is over on another thread arguing that David Koresh and Randy Weaver are heroic. That's amazing coming from someone trashing Rosa Parks. Put down the heroine and raise up the wackos. That's our Kenuckian.
49 - Al Barger
Louis, Ms. Parks will get points in heaven for supporting charter schools. Getting a decent education will make a lot more difference to your success than what part of the bus you sat on to get there.
50 - Al Barger
No Diva, I'm not "trashing" Rosa Parks. I acknowledge her original good contribution to the culture- while criticizing how she's not only let her acclaim go WAY to her head, but assumed a right of censorship that I find totally unacceptable.
Nor am I making Koresh or Weaver out to be HEROIC. Constitutional rights are not just for heroes. Religious freaks and anti-social types have the same right as anyone else not to be murdered by the government for no good reason. Again, please don't confuse being a VICTIM with being a HERO.
51 - bhw
The only new twist is that your racist boss was eager to tell a total stranger (you) about his potentially illegal, and damaging racist hiring practices.
Actually, I wasn't a total stranger because it was my *old* boss, who told me about it as we were reminiscing about my one year on the job after I'd given notice.
You know, it's not like there aren't some reasonable arguments for discrimination against white men, AKA affirmative action.
AA doesn't discriminate against white men. Get over it.
You don't need to just make things up.
Yes, you've found me out. I'm a liar.
Now, what do your comments say about you? Hmmmmm.....
BTW, did you accept the job?
Of course. But I didn't know until after I'd given notice, as I mention above, that the deciding factor in my hiring had been my skin color and not my skills.
Oops. There I go again, telling stories.
52 - Dan
"Yes, you've found me out. I'm a liar." And shameless backpedaler as well.
So, I guess this racist boss who wasn't stupid enough to tell you right away that you were hired for your whiteness, decided to wait a year until she was sure you could be trusted...that you were one of them... I thought MD's comment in post#44:
"Why, if one believed him, one would believe white people don't discuss racial discrimination among themselves as if there is nothing wrong with it. But, I know many of them do. Doing so is part of white privilege." ,
...was just more hopeless paranoid babble. But I guess she was right. You were just enjoying some of that "white privilege". Of course, you had given notice by then so what's a poor white girl to do? I know, you can support affirmative action policies. Screwing white men will absolve you of the guilt of that year of ill-gotten gain.
53 - Chris
I know there is a semi-serious discussion going on here, but something has been bouncing around in the back of my brain and I just realized what it was. This earlier statement by MD:
"Why, if one believed him, one would believe white people don't discuss racial discrimination among themselves as if there is nothing wrong with it. But, I know many of them do. Doing so is part of white privilege."
Sounds like the unfunny, pseudo-insightful version of the old SNL skit in which Eddie Murphy passes as white to see what it is like. The one where the white people on the bus wait till the black passenger gets off before breaking out the music and drinks and the banker is just shoving money at Murphy.
How White People Behave, as brought to you by SNL and MD.
54 - Al Barger
In fairness Chris, simple courtesy and politeness requires that we wait until the dark people leave the room before we conspire together on the best ways to continue keeping them down... Alright, then.
Now, I wouldn't say this if there were black folk around, but I have to say that Ted Kennedy is brilliant. I would never have thought of something so devious as making the Republicans the bad cops, setting the melanin people up to absolutely adore the Democrats and LOVE being held down on the pinko plantation. Genius.
55 - bhw
Dan, you are one angry white man. I can see why. If you look around, the country and its power structures sure are run by a bunch of underqualified men and women of color [and us white girls, too], all the result of that anti-white-man crusade, AA. Why, I can't find a single white man in a powerful position ANYwhere.
I guess I need to lie and fabricate stories because there aren't any "real" stories of white girls like me getting the advantage by our skin color.
56 - schwartzshportz
I think Rosa Parks is a heroine and she deserves to be. But there is considerable legend surrounding her that is not true. She WAS NOT some little woman carrying her bag of knitting who just decided one day she wasn't going to move. She was a political activist and part of an organization.
57 - Mac Diva
Well, the bottom line is Ms. Parks has earned her place in history and will not be forgotten. Years from now, after Al Barger is sent on to his torrid reward, no one will give him a passing thought. That seems fair to me. I think conservative white men are just plain jealous when people of color or women achieve more than they do. That is why Barger can applaud Randy Weaver and David Koresh while dissin' Ms. Parks. Never mind that those white men are first rate creeps, they deserve our attention, according to his ilk. And Ms. Parks, or Charles Drew or Andrew Young don't because they're the 'wrong' color and/or gender. That is so-o-o rational.
58 - Ms. Tek
Well, I am female, mixed, and a hard worker.
I lost my job to a Bangladeshi who wasn't even an American citizen because my white boss who enjoyed throwing obscenities was scared I would usurp him.
How do I know this?
A few people at the company liked me and I got wind of what was going down two days before it happened. The lawyer of the company who happened to be a friend of mine showed me the email where my boss asked him to come up with a clause in my termination agreement that I would not "hack or intrude on the network". Mind you... I was not the first IT person they ever fired but I was the first that they wanted to put that clause in for.
Mind you, my boss screamed at me the week before because I showed him how to install terminal services to a workstation by mapping a drive and not having to walk into the server room with a floppy disk. For that, I got abuse.
Yeah, I can see how my female, non-whiteness helped.
I can give you a lot of antidote to corporate America from the eyes of someone who isn't white and isn't male. It's not so fair or hunky dory as people like to think. The thing is sometimes you just have to keep your mouth shut or lose your job.
It's easy to be on the other side and make judgments. I know for truth that if I were a man, I wouldn't have the same issues that I have because from a male that is expected. If I were also 100% white, and male I can't imagine what that must be like. I know that every little problem that I have personally had in the business world would have been a moot point.
Case in point:
I was the global project manger on a roll out we were doing. There was a problem with the software and the quality manager wanted me to authorize rolling out the client when anyway. Now this client would cause the computers to freeze and the only way to fix it was to do a rebuild. My Dutch administration was there when I showed him... (he ended up having to rebuild his machine as we tested it on him since I got sick of rebuilding mine). Urning a meeting with myself an Indian male and 5 white men, (remember, I am supposed to be the project head), I absolutely flat out said no, I would not approve the client for release.
I was told " Well I can see that you are very emotional about this issue so let me take it up with your boss". The Dutchman took my side "She is correct, I had it happen to me as well and I will not release it in Holland. Sorry... I already have too much work to do without rebuilding workstations."
And I remember the guy saying who wanted to take it over my head "Oh, in that case then when will we expect to have it ready?"
Do you have any idea how that feels? It feel really shitty. And this isn't the first company I have run into that mentality with.
Fairness is BULLSHIT.
59 - Mac Diva
Victoria, I added you to the blogroll at Mac-a-ro-nies yesterday. You also have a link there. I tried to email you but the server bounced the message back.
I don't want to give the impression that white people only discuss discrimination with other white people. Sometimes, they tell us about it. Since I'm the kind of person -- bright, articulate, not 'too' black or Indian looking -- some people try to make 'honorary white,' they sometimes tell me. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that just about any white person in the U.S. working in corporate or government workplaces is subjected to at least one anti-affirmative action tirade in a year. People are just not telling the truth when they deny it. Some folks don't like the perks of white privilege, but they know they will get in trouble if they disagree. That is the status quo and it must change.
60 - Ms. Tek
Thank you for the link. =) I did the same in kind. =)
"some people try to make 'honorary white,"
I had to smile when I read that. Because I am mixed and peopel can't tell what I am (I guess the tattoos and the fact that I am not into "rap music" or "R&B" and I don't think "ebonics" is okay, that throws them way off)they do the same to me. Sometimes people think that I am latina. I'm a mongrel mutt and proud of it! I recently lost a friend of mine because she reveiled how much the hated MLK day and how much the thought Rush Limbaugh makes sense... She would often say to me before making statments about black people "I don't mean to offend you but..." and then say something really stupid.
Now, I'm mixed. If you ask me, I'll tell you "mixed" and I'll even get into a nasty fight about it ;), this doesn't mean that I get any less offended when someone says something stupid about black people or white people or whatever. I may have said this somewhere before but I have been in all white schools and in all black schools growing up. I have seen both sides of the fence so to speak. Racism is racisim... but becasue on occasion I can "pass" as they put it, I know that there is a distinct advantage to being a real, live, fully white person. There is still a problem and it needs to be addressed. The problem is that there are still socital,social, and institutional structures still in place that make true equality hard to achieve.
61 - Natalie Davis
I have been on the receiving end of those sorts of conversations, and Spousal Unit, who's Irish, hears this sort of stuff all the time.
Victoria, I've blogrolled you at AF&O too. Cool blog you have.
62 - Eric Olsen
Link on, sisters, link on.
I don't think you need to impugn the imortance of Rosa Parks in any way to question the appropriateness of her asserting the kind of control over the use of her name in a work of art - by black artists, by the way - as she has been allowed to do here.
In this case the disjunction is generational rather than racial - it is fascinating that she equates rap with disrepute.
63 - bhw
Good insight, Eric.
I think that Outkast has the right to use her name in their songs, but I also think Parks has the right to challenge that use. Whether or not the courts agree with her challenge is, well, up to the courts. I don't think the first amendment is in any danger, here.
That said, I don't quite understand the author's diatribe against Parks. She "did so little" by having the balls to start the bus boycott, in a time when lynchings were still commonplace? She's "an ingrate" and "morally bankrupt" because she wants control over her name and image?
Why the outrage? It seems so ... overdone. Must be something to it ....
64 - Mac Diva
Natalie, you have a Christmas link at Mac-a-ro-nies.
One thing that strikes me in this conversation is that the conservative white males involved seem to think the people of color involved don't know white people. That is inaccurate.
I've been around mainly Anglos since elementary school. I was often the only nonwhite in the accelerated classes and even moreso after I got a scholarship to an elite private school in Philadelphia. College, grad school and law school mirrored those experiences. So has work, at newspapers and law firms. I've lived in New Hampshire, Iowa and Oregon -- each of which has minority populations of less than two percent. My longterm significant other and my ex-husband are white. (And, I have a killer crush on a certain blond blogger.)
I suspect the other people of color on the thread also know white people a lot better than most of them know us.
65 - Natalie Davis
Thanks, MD!
Victoria, your last posting cracked me up; I call myself a Heinz-57 mutt when forced to label myself re: pigmentation. Most often, I call (and see) myself as being nothing more than human. I count myself as a member of no color-based group, but I am an enemy of (what I call) pigmentationism, whoever is dishing it out to others.
Re: Rosa Parks, I'm with Eric. She did great things and should be lauded for her accomplishments. I don't agree with her actions against OutKast or Barbershop, but she, like anyone, has the right to lodge a complaint. The complaints are appropriate if a court sides with her, which is unlikely (I hope).
66 - Eric Olsen
In my extended family our generation has made drastic changes in our lineage. My dad is 100% Norwegian-American, my mother 50% Norwegian, 25% English, 25% German. We are about as Northern European WASP-American as you can get. But my first wife is a Western European mutt (more Norgy, German and English in there, but other stuff also), and Dawn is a wild blend of Eastern European-Jewish, and Western European-Appalachian, so my four kids are more Norgy than anything else, but a crazy Euro-blend after that.
My sister has Euro-mutts - of my four first cousins, two married Japanese women, and one an Iranian - they have seriously trans-cultural and trans-racial children. Only my two oldest have ANY Norwegian blood coming from the other parent: the Viking line is now the UN.
67 - Mac Diva
My longterm significant other, Jon, is of Norwegian extraction, Eric. I kid him about all the rats those ships bought to the Pacific Northwest-:).
68 - Eric Olsen
MD, my father's father was from Norway and then became a sea captain on the West Coast and doubtless contributed his share of transplanted rats!
69 - Mac Diva
The wimpy British rats might have arrived here first, but in the U.S., the Norway rat rules!
70 - Eric Olsen
Actually, they probably first came over with the Vikings to Greenland around 1000, so that beats the Redcoat Rat in chronology and testicularity
71 - Dan
Happy New Year everyone. (with apologies for those who choose to recognize another type of calendar year and are offended by my insensitivity of course) I've been away for a few days, but I was curious about how this thread might've turned out. So in keeping with the logical progression of the thread, I would like to offer my NFL Wild Card Weekend football selections against the spread as a kind of New Years gift. Without going into detail, rest assured these picks are based on reliable and relevant statistical data and should "come in" for you around 55% of the time. 55% is "good" but the chance they don't come in is significant too so... don't bet the farm.
Baltimore Ravens +1,
Denver Broncos +3
the other 2 games don't have the same line variance of these two, making them less playable.
Also I'd like to address a comment from bhw: "Dan, you are one angry white man." Actually not. I've long ago transcended most negative emotions by adopting a Buddhist like spiritualness that emphasizes Karmic reward & retribution. The serenity is wonderful and I believe I've already been blessed with some Karmic rewards, so...life is good! From reading some posts in this thread, I would say that "anger" would be a more suitable diagnostic assesment of bhw and members of the BC rainbow coalition above. With the possible exception of MD, who has already been informally diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder on another blog by a trained and qualified Mental Health provider.
I would recommend my Karmic philosophy to them. One kind of selfish payoff they might enjoy is that the Karmic belief releases them from the resentment they have for all the bad white people who have transgressed against them, because they are assured that the wrongdoers will be appropriately punished.
72 - Mac Diva
One dingbat supporting another. The day Sam Vaknin, a philosophy student who runs a rip off web site where he pretends to be a doctor becomes "a trained and qualified Mental Health provider" I'll be the first to congratulate him. Ditto for Doofus Dan becoming a viable political candidate anywhere this side of Hades. (He got the ten percent of the vote available to anyone who signs up. A well-groomed dog has more potential.)
73 - BB
Eric - now I know where you got your name from. You don't happen to have red hair do you?
I can match your heritage. My wife is from Malaysia with Chinese, Indian, Portuguese, Spanish and Phillipino, from which I inherited 5 step-kids. I am half Irish and English (no wonder I'm so conflicted) so we are the ultimate blended family.
Pardon my ignorance but what does "testicularity" mean? Not even Roget's can help me on that one.
74 - Dan
I think he's using it to mean like courage, bravado, or derring-do.
75 - bhw
I would say that "anger" would be a more suitable diagnostic assesment of bhw
Do me a favor, Dan. Reread comment #40, my first on this thread, and show me where you see anger.