Democrats called the Bush administration's responses tepid, and said that it lends credence to the notion that the White House doesn't want to offend some of its most loyal supporters. Democratic political consultant Steve McMahon said, "It seems they are shuffling their feet when they should be running away from what Pat Robertson said. That this president, who projects himself as brave and bold, doesn't want to stand up to his own right wing is ironic.''
The Bush administration shares many of Reverend Robertson's views on several issues, such as stem cell research, abortion and same-sex marriage, and his mostly conservative, evangelical audience is an essential part of President Bush's political base.
The Reverend Backpedals
On Wednesday, August 24, 2005 Reverend Robertson said that his remarks about Mr. Chavez were taken out of context and that he never called for the killing of the Venezuelan president.
"I didn't say 'assassination.' I said our special forces should 'take him out,'" Reverend Robertson said on the "The 700 Club" program, "And 'take him out' can be a number of things, including kidnapping; there are a number of ways to take out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP [Associated Press], but that happens all the time."
Unintended Fallout?
Because of Reverend Robertson's death threat, Mr. Chavez could see his popularity increase, according to Venezuela's top polling company, Datanalisis.
Reverend Robertson's remarks will lead more Venezuelans to believe Mr. Chavez's claims about the Bush administration trying to kill him, said Datanalisis director, Luis Vicente Leon, "The evangelist's declarations are terrible for the U.S. in that they totally back up Chavez,'' he said, "It is absolutely going to have the opposite effect on Chavez than the U.S. wants. It's something that resonates with the country's poor.'' The additional support may also help Mr. Chavez's ruling coalition extend its majority in congress in Venezuela's December elections.
In a May poll conducted by Datanalisis, 71% of Venezuelans said they support Mr. Chavez, which is an increase from 67% percent in April. Mr. Leon declined to comment about how much of a boost Mr. Chavez could get from Reverend Robertson's comments.
The Reverend's Influence
The scope of Reverend Robertson's influence has been the subject of much debate, with some saying that the Reverend's clout with US evangelicals has waned, while others say that he still has prestige with religious conservatives through his Christian Broadcasting Network and as a recognized leader in the push to get conservative judges confirmed.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Tube Pinoy
One correction: Bob Dole was the 1996 Republican nominee. President George H.W. Bush (41) was the 1988 Republican nominee. Very good post
2 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Good catch, Tube Pinoy. Luckily, this post is still new enough that I can edit it myself. Thanks.
3 - gonzo marx
nicely done, as always...
note the anti-assasination Law prohibits and federal employee from said actions...
can anyone else smell a possible "no-bid" contract going to KBR?
nah...who would ever hire mercenaries to do stuff we're not supposed to do...next ya will tell me we have those "contractors" take folks to foreign countries like Syria fro "interrogation"
oh...wait...
ok..maybe KBR could get the "contract"
aAAAaaaarRRRRrrrggGGGGggghhHHHHhhhhh!!
..:::insert sound of skull exploding, then cleaning it off the Monitaur:::..
Excelsior!
4 - Syats
Very good post. Much more informative than any other news site out there.
Thanks a lot.
5 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"However, Reverend Robertson apparently disagrees with Mr. Bush's assessment that Islam is at heart a religion of peace."
I have to agree with Dr. Robertson that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. If it were truly religion of peace, its moderate factions would keep its extremist factions in check. They would immediately muzzle these radical clerics and close down their mosques. But the moderate Muslims are cowards and won't do it, so they deserve the broad negative generalizations and violent revenge heaped upon them by Christians and Jews.
6 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Thank you, gonzo and Syats.
I also took note of the President Ford's executive order prohibiting any U.S. government employee from engaging in political assassinations.
Indeed, one's head could potentially explode thinking about the ramifications of that order in conjunction with notions of PR test balloons and the opacity of our current leadership.
The article is a compilation of quotes and other information gathered from several different news outlets.
I did my best to remain as "spin-free" as possible, so I reported the disagreement about Islam between Mr. Bush and Reverend Robertson without offering my own assessment.
The scriptures of most of the world's major religions, including Islam, preach peace. It is only when people read and misinterpret said scriptures (and twist their meanings for their own Earthly purposes) that religions become associated with violence.
Wrath always begets wrath. It is unfair and counterproductive to paint the entirety of any group with a broad brush, no matter the extremism of its fanatics nor the silence of its moderates.
7 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"The scriptures of most of the world's major religions, including Islam, preach peace."
Oh really, MRT? How do you explain these "peaceful" passages found in the Koran?
[al-Ma'idah 5:51.8] O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
[an-Nahl 16:118.6] And unto those who are Jews We have forbidden that which We have already related unto thee. And We wronged them not, but they were wont to wrong themselves.
[Koran 5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter,and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.
[9.5]So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.73]O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
[8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
[8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
[62.6] Say: O you who are JEWS,if you think that you are the favorites of Allah to the exclusion of other people, then INVOKE DEATH If you are truthful.
*******************
"It is unfair and counterproductive to paint the entirety of any group with a broad brush, no matter the extremism of its fanatics nor the silence of its moderates."
Tell that to the families of the Israeli women and children that have been carbombed by the PA over the years, you fraud. People like you disgust me with your above-it-all egalitarianism. You sit comfortably behind your keyboards and know nothing of the stench of death that has tainted the dignity of the State of Israel since 1948.
I know you are fraud because you'd rather condemn one Christian cleric for his call to assassinate a vicious Communist dictator, the oppressor of millions, yet you are silent over the dozens of radical Muslim clerics who each day, call for the murder and destruction of Jews and their homeland.
Shall I supply the text of just one?
"Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them. Wherever you are, kill those Jews and those Americans who are like them and those who stand by them they are all in one trench, against the Arabs and the Muslims because they established Israel here, in the beating heart of the Arab world, in Palestine. They created it to be the outpost of their civilization and the vanguard of their army, and to be the sword of the West and the crusaders, hanging over the necks of the monotheists, the Muslims in these lands. They wanted the Jews to be their spearhead."
You ignore that and instead focus on Pat Robertson. You are a fraud and most likely, another Jew hating anti-Israeli.
8 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Mark the Sane and Sensible, the subject about which I chose to write on this particular occasion is not currently relevant to your agenda.
Perhaps you should join Blogcritics -- if you have not already -- and create your own blogpost about the issues that concern you. I am sure that such a post would prompt some very lively discussions.
Peace be with you.
9 - Al Barger
Miss Margaret, I'm inclined to think that Rev Robertson is a crazy old fool talking out his hat. However, this essay (probably the most detailed and thoughtful assessment of this at Blogcritics) tends to make me want to cheer him on.
Start with the title "Religious Extremist Pat Robertson Incites International Firestorm." Anything that really pisses off the international diplomatic community probably has some merit.
Plus, when a US Congressman (Rangel) starts publicly calling for a private citizen to be jailed as a "terrorist" for talking public policy on his tv show, then I'd probably be wanting to support that citizen even if they were a damned pinko with a commie flag tacked up on the wall of their garage.
If it was a Republican congressman making such talk about a Democrat, hoo boy would all the lefties be up in arms- and I'd be right in with 'em.
10 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"Mark the Sane and Sensible, the subject about which I chose to write on this particular occasion is not currently relevant to your agenda."
Ms. MRT, I've read the topics of all 28 of your blog articles here and a good handful of them are critical of either Judeo-Christian faith, American politics, or American social policy. How daring! How cutting edge!
Where are the blog articles condemning Muslim extremism and their threats against Jews and Christians? It seems you choose to tackle subjects which are safe and won't possibly retaliate against you. I'm sure the issue of Muslim extremism threatening the lives of Christians and Jews on a daily basis is far more compelling for an erudite thinker as yourself than addressing a questionable crusade to exonerate a drug dealing criminal in Seattle, Washington.
It seems as if your "compassion" for humanity is horribly misplaced. I'm singling you out because the Rev. Pat Robertson is kinderspiel compared to the radical Muslim clerics who everyday are invoking their followers to kill Jews and Americans. Criticizing Robertson instead of the dozens of radical clerics spewing hatred against Jews clearly indicates to me where YOUR compassion lies, and quite possibly, your prejudices as well.
11 - Al Barger
Easy there Mark, PLAY NICE please. Now, I'm with you on being far more concerned about evil mullahs really sending people out on fatwas than I am about a silly coot like Robertson spouting off a little.
Still, you're harshing on Sister Margaret here unnecessarily. I would judge her sense of offense to be somewhat misplaced, but don't be jumping to malicious conclusions.
One thing in defense of some critics of Robertson, definitely including the fairly reasonable Ms Toigo: Robertson is OUR guy. We should and do hold ourselves to much higher standards than the rest of the world. That is, we SHOULD be emphasizing proper criticism of our own people if they're out of line. I wish more Middle Easterners and Muslims would become as self-critical as we are.
12 - Al Barger
Mistakes don't count if you point them out first yourself, right? I went researching this Rangel quote from the original story, and then I eventually figured out it was the Venezuelan vice-president, not the US Congressman as I had originally read it before writing comment 9. Totally my bad.
13 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
Al, I hear you, but ...
"We should and do hold ourselves to much higher standards than the rest of the world."
This idealistic notion doesn't seem to wash anymore. I am somewhat of a Sun Tzu adherent. I try to apply his principles to all aspects of my life, because I see life as a grand battle between myself and others to get what I need and want. What I've learned is that while I've tried to take the "high road," my adversary was taking the "low road" and winning. To me, there is only winning and losing. I can't take any comfort in the knowledge that I played more "fair" than my opponent. Sun Tzu teaches that you must match or exceed the level of your opponent to win.
"That is, we SHOULD be emphasizing proper criticism of our own people if they're out of line."
Instead of tearing down our own team, we need to direct our scrutiny toward our enemies, who are tangible and real and won't pause to play by the Marquis deQueensberry rules or even the Geneva Convention for that matter.
The fact is, we can never expect these extremists to ever consider fairness or self-reproach. They too see everything as winner-take-all. This will be a war that lasts until the last man is standing. I just pray that the last man standing is waving an American flag.
14 - Al Barger
Mark, I would think of it more as doing the right thing by ourselves, really. To paraphrase Rev Robertson's favorite book, what does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world but lose his soul? There's more to life than winning.
That said, there's NO more to life at all if you're dead, so I'ma be granting that survival will at some point trump ethics. The nice Bible quotes won't do us any good if we're dead, so I'm pretty hawkish.
Still, just recognize that Margaret's part of Team America, too. Cut her some slack on the basis of goodwill. Save your harshing for our enemies, rather than perhaps somewhat overzealous domestic critics.
Feel free to unload on that goddam lyin' pinko Michael Moore, though. :)
15 - Doug Hannan
Mark the self-described "sane and sensible" (why are self-descriptions always so hilariously wrong) said:
"I know you are fraud because you'd rather condemn one Christian cleric for his call to assassinate a vicious Communist dictator, the oppressor of millions,"
If you are referring to Chavez, wasn't he democratically elected with over 70% of the vote? Incidentally this popularity level is widely expected to increase as a result of this outrageous incident and the Bush administration's luke-arm response.
Would it be futile to ask you to try and refrain from hi-jacking this thread, and to conduct your discourse in a less "ugly American" vein?
16 - Al Barger
In fairness Doug, Mark's comments, while admittedly somewhat harsh, are clearly germane to the basic topic of the Miss Margaret's column.
17 - Al Barger
Hey, I just found this column linked from the front page of Google News.
Good for you, Margaret.
18 - Magnus
It makes me rather disappointed to hear Americans still using terms like 'pinko' and 'commie' - go get 'em, Rambo!
As for the Sane and Sensible remarks I've read above, they just reinforce why Ms MRT's well-balanced article is so much more interesting and credible than an irate Jew ranting about the cruelty of the world around him.
I just want to make a few comments about another comment in this blog.
- If you're going to extract random passages from a religious text, you're in dangerous territory. Examine the Bible, for example, and you will not have very much difficulty finding passages along the same line as those quoted from the Qur'an above. I'm also curious as to which translation of the Qur'an those passages were taken. Arabic is a very nuanced language, and sometimes easy to misinterpret.
Revd Robertson is a fool, and I think the whole issue has gotten a bit out of hand. I also find the American sense of right and wrong, acceptable and unacceptable amusing:
"Reverend Jackson also called for a Federal Communications Commission investigation, 'This is even more threatening to hemispheric stability than the flash of a breast on television during a ballgame,' he said, referring to the infamous 'wardrobe malfunction' that caused pop singer Janet Jackson's breast to be exposed during the live broadcast of the 2004 Super Bowl halftime show."
I wonder what ABC's reaction (we are contractually obligated to air the show and...) would have been, had Revd Robertson said 'penis' or even just a colloquial 'fuck' on air...
19 - adam
Dear Margaret:
Thank you for your post. A great deal of excellent research went into it. It is by far the best and most informative post on the whole matter. An army of NY Times reporters could not have done it better.
To Mark the Insane and Insensitive: whoa, boy, this lady does not belong on your personal pyre. She shows you respect -- maybe you could return some of the favor, at least in your tone.
20 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Thank you for letting me know that I briefly made the Google news front page, Al.
Eric Olsen has asked us Blogcritics to make our article titles catchy yet specific (and containing a good keyword or two) so that articles posted here will float to the top of the news aggregators. And this method works very well, thus my choice of title for this article.
I am sorry if the text of my article was unclear about which Mr. Rangel called Reverend Robertson's remarks "terrorist statements."
Indeed, the implications would have been somewhat different if it had been Democratic Congressman Charles B. Rangel of New York who'd said that (and even more different if Congressman Rangel was a Republican), instead of Venezuelan Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel.
21 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Mark the Sane and Sensible, I write about what I know, understand and find interesting.
There are plenty of daring and cutting edge bloggers who write "blog articles condemning Muslim extremism and their threats against Jews and Christians." Some of them even post articles here at Blogcritics, where a search utility is provided in the upper right-hand corner of every page.
The issue of "Muslim extremism threatening the lives of Christians and Jews on a daily basis" appears to be compelling to you and you seem to be quite knowledgeable about it, so why don't you blog about that subject yourself, instead of wasting your time and writing talent singling me out for failing to address it?
22 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
To Doug, Magnus, and Adam,
First of all, what is sane and sensible to me probably won't be to you. My blog handle is not intended to be one-size-fit-all to please the collective or curry favor with anyone. Perhaps it is the individual who stands alone and avoids finding common ground is the most sane and sensible.
I sense that you find confrontation distasteful and that you fear offending anyone. You find nationalism to be dangerous. You don't want to be judgemental. But really, straddling an ideological fence and toeing the egalitarian line is the realm of fools. The times we live in are too dire to be anything but partisan. Taking the so-called ideological "high road" will not protect you from attack or grant you immunity from our enemies. There are people out there who want to kill Jews, Americans, and now Britons, and they preach it everyday from mosques around the world. But no, we instead scrutnize one harmless Christian cleric for stating an opinion about a vile foreign dictator from a rogue Communist nation, instead of demanding that our leaders track down and kill these radical Muslim clerics. This reminds me of the anti-American pundits who annually review the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombing and fail to consider the thousands of American lives that were saved by avoiding a ground war on mainline Japan. The "blame America first" voices are ruining this country's morale during wartime and must be countered swiftly and punitively. I place Ms. MRT squarely within this group without hesitation, based on the 28 topics she's written here. Those 28 articles speak volumes about her. There is nothing more I need to learn about Ms. MRT. She appears "nice" on the surface but she is poisoned at the soul because of her obvious and latent hatred for America. These are the people I most despise-- the poseurs. Her viciousness is cloaked in this deceptive collegial discourse. That's my opinion about Ms. MRT, you are free to disagree, I don't care. With me, what you read is what you get. I have no hidden agenda. I just cannot understand how any real American could complain about wishing for the demise of any Communist dictator. I really must question one's patriotism if they think it's wrong to hope for Hugo Chavez's speedy demise. Hugo Chavez would kill you in a heartbeat if he needed to. Why grant him any special consideration? You gain nothing in life that way. We all die someday and turn to dust. No one will care if you loved or hated your enemy.
I have stated elsewhere that people in this post 9/11 environment would be better served studying Sun Tzu's philosophies of engagement or even THE PRINCE, for that matter, rather than, for example, any of those self hating historical texts by Howard Zinn. Also, I am not afraid to say that the US is the greatest nation on earth and it should not bow to threats from terrorist groups or directives from world collectives like the UN. America was at it most proud and powerful immediately following WW2 and it slowly has been torn from within from left leaning insurrectionists, reaching an ugly peak during the 60s counterculture. They poisoned the minds of the young and impressionable baby boomers on our college campuses and we're still suffering for it to this very day. One only needs to look at the current Democrat Party leadership as an example of this disappointing legacy.
23 - Margaret Romao Toigo
I don't think anyone would argue that Mark the Sane and Sensible's agenda is a hidden one when, in fact, it is quite obvious.
What I am curious about is why he does not put some of this sanity and sensibility into a blogpost on the subject about which he feels so passionately.
With a little editing, comments 5, 7, 10, 13 and 22 could be made into a full-fledged article and Mark the Sane and Sensible could then hold court over his very own partisan hatefest.
BTW, what exactly is a real American?
And, is it sane and/or sensible to speak of pride as if it is a virtue rather than a deadly sin?
24 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Magnus asked, "I wonder what ABC's reaction (we are contractually obligated to air the show and...) would have been, had Revd Robertson said 'penis' or even just a colloquial 'fuck' on air..."
According to a July 30, 2001 article in Cable World, Reverend Robertson could get away with doing/saying just about anything on his program.
This comprehensive article in Christianity Today contains even more details (and many links) about Reverend Robertson's most advantageous television contract.
25 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"BTW, what exactly is a real American?"
A person who loves their country unconditionally.
"With a little editing, comments 5, 7, 10, 13 and 22 could be made into a full-fledged article and Mark the Sane and Sensible could then hold court over his very own partisan hatefest."
Are you suggesting that I should "love" those that have pledged to kill me? How does that notion ensure my survival and the survival of my loved ones during wartime?
I don't suffer from that much of an ego deficiency that I require my own vanity blog to impart my views. I prefer to throw my brickbats from the cheap seats in the back. I feel that is sufficient for my purposes.
"And, is it sane and/or sensible to speak of pride as if it is a virtue rather than a deadly sin?"
During wartime, it is clearly a virtue. Funny how you embrace Christian ideals yet OTOH condemn one of God's messengers speaking the truth about a vile Communist dictator. You must think that the life of a vile Communist dictator has value. If you do, how naive of you. They would slice your throat without hesitation if given the chance. How do feel about that possibility?