My near-death experience, which was both horrifying and enlightening, has forced me to see life differently.
It took me years to come to terms with my near-death experience, which has both haunted and enlightened me. I'd heard of near-death experiences since I was a child and remember seeing the documentary movie, Beyond and Back, when I was only nine years old. The film, narrated by Brad Crandall, made me think about our relevance here in the physical world. It showed re-creation after re-creation of people going to Heaven and meeting Jesus, who didn’t seem as judgmental as the right wing Christians made him out to be.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Ray Ellis
Havingly vividly experienced at least three so-called NDEs, all of them a result of severe trauma, I can assure you that there is no such thing. What happens is this: you leave your body while your brain busily works to repair the damage to its host. In the process, a lot of things happen in your concsience, a lot of which have to do with memories and regrets. They come together in a jumble, sort of like non-linear editing.
On the other hand, coming out of it does leave one with a sense of serenity, and a realization that these discussions are pointless.
The question is not whether a God exists, but how we reconcile our perceptions of him/her/they.
27 - Kimberly
If I may respond here Baritone with great respect for your being both soul and body is keep searching. Keep asking deep within yourself who I believe will find your expectations greater than you could ever expect. Jesus is your friend. I can also say that for myself. This man's near death experience is real for him as many people are now sharing. Let's give him that much OK?
28 - daryl d
Thanks for all the interesting comments on this. I knew it would cause debate and I think it's a good thing. I respect those who don't believe in an afterlife because they are brave to think "outside of the box." But I tell you, there is one.
I also didn't make it clear: I was clinically dead. Does your brain operate when you are dead? Some people say it does, but I think that's not true. I also confirmed with a couple doctors what they were saying and wearing.
Let me also stress that since this experiences, my senses are FAR more stronger than they were before. It's hard to explain, but I can pick up things about people: if they have been abused, if they are abusers, if they are hiding their true sexual orientation; if they are experiencing the loss of a loved one, etc. I pick up a bunch of weird things that I really don't even want to know or care about, I just pick it up.
I also see things in my dream that happen in the future. Most of the things I see are not really that significant, but when something happens that I dreamt about (such as my boss getting his GPS stolen from his car) I get really freaked out.
In no way was my experience a dream. It was completely vivid and real. I also don't think it was a punishment either. Perhaps since I was so close to Brett at the same time of our deaths, I went with him. But I was more of an observer than a participant to what was going on in this place. The pure love I experienced in the tunnel was far stronger than the hatred I experienced in that hellish place. This is why I believe that love is stronger than hate.
29 - Baritone
Kimberly,
I don't suggest that Daryl didn't have the experience. I'm sure it happened. I don't believe he made it up out of whole cloth here. I simply say that it was nothing more than what Ray describes above - a jumbled dream. No doubt one that Freud would have a great time with.
I am perfectly happy with my situation. I feel no need or desire to dig deeper within myself to find what?
While the notion of some kind of blissful and eternal life has obvious appeal, that still doesn't make it a reality. We can succeed in making ourselves believe about anything. I choose to believe in a rational world with no higher power or powers to reckon with. I accept that when I die, that will be it. I will endeavor to live the life I have remaining as best I can. I ask for nor expect nothing more.
B-tone
30 - Kimberly
Baritone,
I understand. I will be signing off and really, I sincerly mean this, I wish you and yours the very best this life has to offer. Your here for a reason and you have much to offer.
31 - Augustine
Daryl,
Your vision of Brett could have been your destiny as well had you not been called back to complete your earthly experience. Becoming religious after such an experience would probably be the best thing you can do for yourself. Seek the truth of the after life. Pascal's wager is really about living your life as if you were sure there was a God.... the minimalist approach is to say it can hurt to be religious. This grace you were given should be meditated on very deeply, dare I say pray about it. Remember that Christ said: "ask and you shall receive"; this applies to your experience as well. As we become confounded by events in our life, we can turn to Jesus Christ for light, wisdom, faith, charity and love
32 - Aaron
When people try to reason away a NDE as the continuation of the brain and a mash of religious memories, they fail to realize that during NDEs people are able to hear and see things that in the present. For example, Dr. Raymond Moody, writes about a person who was declared dead and gone during the out of body experience, the person floated outside the hospital, and the person saw a red tennis shoe lodged along an outside windows edge that could not be seen from any particular angle. After the person came back, they checked the far off window ledge and the shoe was there.
Thanks Daryl for sharing, and remember how important the small acts of compassion are in this life for the next.
33 - Baritone
Kimberly,
I appreciate your sentiments and your wishes, but as you might imagine, I don't believe that I or anyone are here for a "reason." We are simply here. We can, and must, I think try to find our own personal "reasons" for being. It helps one to get out of bed in the morning.
I love my wife and my kids. I get a kick out of all kinds of people. I can revel in a vibrant spring morning or a blustery late fall day, with the leaves blowing about. I am 61 years old. Yet, I love learning. I read a good deal. I love a good film. I love music and other art forms. I've never made any money to speak of, but I have provided decently for my family and myself. I want for little. I still buy a few lottery tickets, though. I'm still reasonably healthy. So, on balance, life remains good for me. I will, in fact, experience and enjoy it as best I can. Not bad for a godless infidel, no?
B-tone
34 - daryl d
Augustine:
I have chosen not to become religious after this experience but have become a lot more spiritual. I'm not a saint, but not a complete sinner either. I am sure that Hell is not my destiny. As I mentioned, I was given the feeling that I was only a "visitor" in this place. Who knows? I've done a lot of good things for other people especially during my days as a social worker. Even though I still have a lot to work on about how I treat and react to other people, I generally don't cause other people pain. Brett did and God bless his soul which I hope eventually found peace.
35 - duane
Baritone fights the good fight, outnumbered, but with reason and patience on his side.
Pascal's Wager was an attempt by Pascal to give non-believers something, anything, to grab on to as a justification to adopt Christianity, knowing full well that "faith" based on bet hedging is superficial and cynical. I doubt that God would be so easy to fool. What do you think?
Pascal hoped that such people would soon find true belief. It's a bit like an arranged marriage; hubby says, "You'll learn to love me." But, of course, very few of the questionless faithful (and very few of the faithless, for that matter) are actually in search of answers. In many cases, the wager remains the crux of the believer's belief.
Daryl D, your appointment with Lucifer is etched in brimstone, ever since that Dennis Miller piece you wrote. Not even Jesus will forgive you for that one. Church for you, young man. Pronto.
36 - Christopher Rose
Whilst it is onbviously true that:-
"For those who WANT to believe, no proof is necessary,
For those who DON'T WANT to believe, no proof wil ever be enough."
What about those who are open-minded enough to be willing to believe but would simply like to be shown some convincing or even coherent reason as to why they should?
The concept that I should believe in some omnipotent super-being that normally exists in some entirely undetectable dimension of existence, that created the entire universe in the space of a few days then simply left it to its fate, but is a creature of love that we will be re-united with after death is something we should simply uncritically accept?
Frankly, it would be insane to accept such a claim without wanting something a little more concrete to go on than the wishful thinking that is usually deployed in support of the idea.
37 - troll
Baritone - you asked earlier about the 'good life'
in the context of the 'death trip' the good life would be the one as free of regret as is possible...I guess
38 - Baritone
troll,
I see what you were saying. I just don't think that such an "instant" is in the offing for any of us.
B-tone
39 - Karly Semone
Thank you for this article. This is, by far, the best piece of writing I've seen on the Internet this year.
40 - Colin White
Disturbing and important article. It left me thinking intensely. I try to stay away from theological debate, it makes me sick and terribly depressed.
Good luck with you.
-Colin
41 - carole
Great article.
Don't know if you ever read the book "23 minutes in Hell" by Bill Weise. (Or maybe it's Bill Wiese.) Horrifying.
I had a bad experience of hell too but that was just a quick glimpse. I saw a show once on television about a support group for people who had had bad death experiences. They didn't have the healing experience after so they were pretty traumatized. And some folks never told their families because they feared their friends would think they were bad people...and they knew they weren't bad. From what I've heard, hell is full of bad people and good people so as a Christian, I can only say it's not being bad or being good that gets one into hell or into heaven...it's having accepted the holy sacrifice of Jesus blood.
42 - Paddy R
Having had an NDE myself, a lot of Daryls' experience I believe is personal to him, although I never experienced the hellish experience he did I did experience the loving experience he did. I believe Daryl had an NDE
43 - Humm...
Well, what I think is interesting is that we are not asked to consider the religious implications of the experience. It is only an account.
As for the question of God, I like the statement in the movie Contact. "I find it difficult to understand why ten percent of the planet thinks the other ninety percent of the planet is wrong." Most societies have some idea of a transcendent deity and NDEs have been documented since the beginning of recorded history.
If anything they should make us question the fabric of reality and what we should expect when what we know is no more... This isn't the only depiction of hell described in a NDE. I have heard at least on other and am sure there are likely more.
I put this in the category of things that make me go hummm... For one not to at least consider the possibilities would prove the reader as one who is not truly intellectually open.
44 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
What about those who are open-minded enough to be willing to believe but would simply like to be shown some convincing or even coherent reason as to why they should?
The concept that I should believe in some omnipotent super-being that normally exists in some entirely undetectable dimension of existence, that created the entire universe in the space of a few days then simply left it to its fate, but is a creature of love that we will be re-united with after death is something we should simply uncritically accept?
Chris,
If you take away the immediate and very stressful situation that this country (and a good part of the world) is undergoing immediately prior to the arrival of the messiah, and concentrate on what you view as what will occur in a better world to come, and what I view will happen in a messianic world, you will realize that the two of us are not that far apart in our visions of the future.
We are both optimists, believing in lengthened lifespans, far improved health for most of us, prosperity for a good part of the world's population, world peace, and reconciliations between peoples.
As for proofs.
In the Galilee is a banana farm, along with many others. The farmer of this particular farm, a secular and non-observant Jew, agreed to comply with all the rules of shmittá (allowing the land to lie fallow every seven years) in the Torah, as well as agreeing to keep the Sabbath for the shmittá year, which is this one.
Not too long ago, a killing frost arrived in the Galilee, and all the banana crop in this district was wrecked - except his.
I doubt that you would view this as any more than a coincidence. But the farmer didn't. He understood that G-d protects those who believe in Him.
So for you, the proofs you demand prior will not come. Therefore, my suggestion to you is this. From what I've seen of your writing, you will never accept the existence of G-d without a supernatural kick in the butt that is really hard and jarring to your mind (not to mention your butt!) - so be ready for that supernatural kick in the butt in the near future.
Cheers!
45 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, all I really need to believe in any god is that they actually turn up, which is not much to ask for.
Faithists appear to be so desperate for evidence to support their fantastical assertions that they will try to interpret the tiniest of events, such as the lack of frost, as proof of the divine.
I'm ready for such a manifestation any time, but I'm willing to wager that you will never live to see it. How about one hundred of my English pounds versus everything you own, if you're so confident of its imminent occurence? ;-)
46 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Faithists appear to be so desperate for evidence to support their fantastical assertions that they will try to interpret the tiniest of events, such as the lack of frost, as proof of the divine.
As I said, the kind of proofs you want will not be forthcoming. You contemptuous dismissal of fact (go to the entry on 25 January) is evidence of this. So, I repeat what I said earlier.
You will never accept the existence of G-d without a supernatural kick in the butt that is really hard and jarring to your mind (not to mention your butt!) - so be ready for that supernatural kick in the butt in the near future.
No bets. First of all, neither you nor I know when the redemption will manifest itself. Secondly, neither you nor I know whether money as we now know it, i.e. pounds, shekels or dollars, will retain value. Thirdly, neither you nor I know what condition we will be in when this event strikes; finally, neither you nor I know whether there will be an EMP that will wipe clean all records of this conversation, and our ability to even communicate.
If I'm right, one of the things that will have to occur will be an EMP - a powerful one.
47 - Christopher Rose
So my suggestion that this alleged superbeing actually manifest itself is never going to happen? At last, something we can agree on!
As to the bet, it's okay that you're too chicken to take it. You like to claim that all this nonsense is going to happen soon but you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is. That speaks volumes.
Your latest claim, that this alleged redemption is going to involve a global EMP, is no more believable than anything else you have to say on these matters.
You're the one that shows contempt, Ruvy; contempt for all that is good, true and verifiable as you so determinedly embrace fairy stories, myths and legends. Frankly, I'd rather buy into the world of Harry Potter or Stargate than your mish mash of dogma and deceit.
Cluck, Cluck, Cluck, chicken...
48 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Chris, as usual, you're not paying attention. What I said is that you would not accept any proofs I offer; and you do not. So, the only time you will realize that I'm right is when the proof is so overwhelming that you are unable to deny it - but that it nearly drives you insane.
At that point you will be in no condition to pay up on any bet that you will have lost....
49 - zingzing
if proof of god's existence can be found in a lack of something on bananas, well, i suppose i could prove chris is a woman with a goldfish.
i wonder if any of those other banana farmers were god-fearing men... ah, hell, who cares about all those other farmers? the prodigals are so much more interesting.
50 - Christopher Rose
No Ruvy, what you said is "the kind of proofs you want will not be forthcoming". The proof I want is that this alleged god shows up, so you are saying it won't happen, just like me!
Why exactly do you think this "redemption" event would be such a terrifying affair? I would have thought it something altogether more joyous...
Troll, are you saying you could prove with a goldfish that I'm a woman or that you could prove I'm a woman that has a gold fish? lol
51 - zingzing
chris--- troll? haha, it is i! zingzing! i am no troll.
as to your question, i suppose i could try to prove you are a woman with a goldfish with a banana. but i just want to prove you are a woman with a goldfish, although that goldfish may as well be a banana. besides, what does it matter what i prove it with, as long as i prove it? far as i can tell, all it will take is a little localized global warming, and that ain't much to ask. at least we all know THAT's real. oh, ha.
52 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
G-d doesn't have to show up. Chris. He's there all the time; He's a part of all of us, and of all of His creation. But the proofs you want will not be forthcoming because you refuse to recognize this possibility. And the proofs I provide, you contemptuously dismiss.
That is why you will need a cosmic kick in the butt to get you to understand Reality.
And as for you zing, try watching this video on Global Dimming and reading this article on Global Cooling. You'll need to put the bottle of liquor down, though, and focus.
53 - Christopher Rose
Zing, sorry mate, I obviously had a brain fart after guzzling Ruvy's heady brew.
Ruvy, once again, I don't at all refuse to recognise the possibility that a god is here all the time, I simply don't take it as given because some people say so.
I've no problem at all in believing it, but as with all such claims, it needs substantiating. You aren't providing proof, you're providing subjective assertions and interpretations, nothing more.
It's not them I dismiss but your shoddy "thinking". You don't understand reality at all, you just try desperately to shoehorn it into the predetermined reality rulebook you've somehow allowed yourself to buy into. You're the one that has a closed mind as you think you know the way things work whereas I have a far more open, if critical mind. You're just naive and gullible.
54 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Chris, we'll try this once more. Optimist that I am, I figure that something will get through to a reasonably intelligent person.
G-d is here, there and all over the place. He's Giving the Party and you and I and the rest of the sentient creatures of the universe are mere guests. The Host of the Party need not show up serving drinks, though I agree with you, it would be nice to have the Divinity filling our wine goblets or champagne flutes in such a way that we could see Him. The catch is that you cannot look G-d in the Face (so to speak) and live.
The Grace you said as a kid before you ate (if indeed you were taught this), and the Grace After Meals that I say now, are recognition that G-d is indeed filling our wine goblets, champagne flutes, fruit bowls, and breadbaskets, not to mention the baked chickens we (my family and I) eat on the Sabbath.
It's His Universe, and we are guests at His Table.
But believing me is not what I expect you to do. You might want to believe Shoulamit Gad, and her daughter, Galia.
There is a video in Hebrew at the lower right of this site with English subtitles. Give yourself some free time when you can pay attention. You'll need to read the sub-titles. The translation is not perfect, but is very good.
Enjoy.
55 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, I've absolutely no idea why or how you are managing to persuade yourself that I'm not understanding you, maybe because it supports your mistaken self image as someone who has a special understanding, as opposed to just being "special".
I didn't ask that this mythical creature serve drinks, just show up. I don't believe what you say, nor any other gullible twit who wastes their time trying to infer this creature's presence from "signs".
Why do you believe that looking at its face would cause you to die? Seems a bit harsh for a creative being to do that...
I think it's long past time that these children's stories were all put away so we humans could get on with the serious business of life and start to work together to make this planet a better place for all.
Nowadays, Judaism, Christianity and Islam have become nothing but pointless diversions that are causing more problems than solutions.
56 - Dr Dreadful
The catch is that you cannot look G-d in the Face (so to speak) and live.
Sounds a bit pagan to me...
57 - zingzing
oh, doc... it sounds a bit pagan because it all came out of pagan beliefs. that may sound like a strike against judeo-christian-islamic beliefs... i mean it's just regurgitated pagan beliefs wrapped up in a new bunch of words... but that's really about the only thing that leads me to wonder whether or not it might all be true. not the specifics, of course, but why have humans believed this stuff for so long? and why is it so easy to trace current beliefs back to the older beliefs? is there some validity to those beliefs?
58 - Dr Dreadful
Excellent and fair questions, zing2, although the answers may not be as supernatural to our modern way of thinking as they seem.
I refer you to this excellent work by Isaac Asimov, in which he points out that in editing the Book of Genesis, the ancient rabbinical scholars were simply trying to assemble their best knowledge of the world and its origins. To their astute but prescientific minds, the observable universe was best explainable in terms of an omnipotent creator of the nature of YHWH.
59 - duane
"Ancient wisdom." Ooooohhhhh.
But that's an interesting take, zing.
Ultimately, maybe, it's all a result of humankind's inability to reconcile the fact that we eventually die.
Once the human brain evolved to the point where it could begin to reason, think about the future and the past, develop deep emotional bonds to other humans, experience the pain of loss, prehistoric philopsophy was invented. This involved the Big Picture --- life, death, cosmology --- and the Little Picture --- cause and effect relationships in the natural world, ethics, morality.
Man realized that he was superior to the rest of the animal kingdom, and assumed that he was given this priveleged position by gods --- the Great Chain of Being --- Man was the dominant species on Earth, but so many mysteries lay beyond his comprehension, that he made the natural assumption that all of creation was the work of someone or something far above and beyond Man.
It is in our nature to try to understand our existence. Complex systems of thought were developed to reconcile all that was seen and believed. Out of this came the belief that something as special as Man has a purpose, known only by the creator race. The promise of an afterlife sat well with all. We will go on. We will meet our dear departed in a better place. Very comforting.
But the belief in an afterlife reflected back on morals and ethics in our earthly existence -- codes of conduct accompanied the basic belief systems. Our reward (or punishment) will be based upon our behavior in the here and now. This is the life blood of organized religion.
As modern science chips away at ancient cause and effect models of Nature, we (generally speaking) still cling to our belief in an afterlife, finding it difficult to accept the alternative that "That's all there is." Everything else --- rituals, morals, ethics, ancient books, creators, prayer, sacrifice --- is tangential to our fundamental wish that we will live beyond our natural lifetimes.
60 - zingzing
"To their astute but prescientific minds, the observable universe was best explainable in terms of an omnipotent creator of the nature of YHWH."
that could be true, but it's still a fantastic leap of faith. such specifics, at least later in the book (genesis, i mean). i dunno what they were trying to explain there... it certainly couldn't have been the universe as they really saw it. i mean, it certainly wasn't (isn't) a conclusion you would come to by OBSERVATION.
61 - duane
Dr. D (#58) explains much more concisely part of my long-winded comment #59. Sorry for the redundancy.
62 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Well kids (Chris, Duane zing, DD, B-tone), I have one question. And all it requires is a yes or no answer.
Did you view the video I suggested to Chris Rose in comment #54?
A simple yes or no will do. No
bullshit answersphilosophical arguments necessary.If you did view the video, thank you for doing so. If you didn't, you have no idea what I'm talking about, and shouldn't be whining about it.
63 - zingzing
yeah, duane, but you bring up some different points. religion certainly was the "science" of its day, and as science answered the questions that religion had previously answered with "just pray to it!," religion had to replace the physical gods (sun, moon, sea, mars, etc.) with disembodied spirits of an unknowable nature.
i'm not saying it was JUST a really good move in the struggle for power... but it was a really good move. in monotheism, there is nothing to prove or disprove, there is only faith. before, it was possible to experiment... to say, "well, let's see if constant prayer brings us water..." or "let's stop praying and see if the sun comes out and warms our crops anyway." the rules of the game changed, and religion won by settling for a tie.
64 - zingzing
ruvy--i get an error when i try to view it. page not found type error.
65 - duane
I tried, Ruvy, but I got an "HTTP Error 404," page not found.
66 - Christopher Rose
I haven't bothered. As Ruvy's own arguments are so deeply uninsightful and lacking rationality, I can't see any reason to explore his source material.
I'm already in Wonderland, so I don't need the looking glass!
67 - Dr Dreadful
The link's a dud, Ruvy.
I have a little more patience than Chris, and did find my way to the host site; unfortunately, the plugin which enables one to view the video works with Windows only - I use a Mac.
I had a look around the site, though, and as a skeptic, I have to say that what Galia's mother has written there sounded a lot of familiar alarm bells.
Turns out that while facilitated communication (FC) has its advocates and is even accepted in some courts, in over 30 studies it hasn't been shown to have any validity at all.
68 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I ran into the same error that you all did. This is what came up. http://www.signsfromheaven.com/files/English_Index.html%22
There is a simple way around this. Go to the tab bar where this erroneous tab appears and erase the %22, or whatever else appears after html from the tab bar. You should get to the site.
Of course, if you are as "open-minded" as Chris Rose is, you won't bother. Meaning you have nothing to say on the issue that is worth paying attention to. At least DD looked, and researched further. Kol hakavód! With him I can attempt to have a discussion.
But not now. It's nearly three in the morning here, and I'm exhausted. Just got back from guard duty in the village.
Another boring three hours that could have exploded into murderous violence at any second. That was 10,800 seconds of waiting.
69 - Dr Dreadful
Another boring three hours that could have exploded into murderous violence at any second.
Sounds a bit like rush hour on the Victoria Line.
Or an England home game...
'Night, Ruve.
70 - Leslie Bohn
On the American sitcom of the '70's What's Happenin', Rerun once fell under the spell of a cult that worships a head of lettuce they call Ralph. Eventually, the whole gang had to convince Rerun they were just out for his money.
Nanu nanu! Please familiarize yourself with this episode and the lessons it teaches about religion. If you don't, you have nothing to say about the issue that is worth paying attention to.
71 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Aw heck, DD, we'll try a few points with you anyway.
The following is a list of the sources skepdic.com used in its piece on facilitated communication.
Note that none of these sources is later than 2001.
Galia Gad exploded on the scene here after 2001.
This is from the site, Galia's first communication with her mother, Shoulamit.
There is no separate direct link to this at this website, so I'm reproducing it here in its entirety for your perusal.
DD, since you were patient enough to try to refute what I provided you, at least go through this site and see what it says. Frankly, not all retards or autistic children have this kind of connection to the Upper World, but many do. Some have no special intelligence at all, and some just have some ability to communicate. And, in some instances, that communication ability has surely been abused.
In this instance, a person who came from the States and probably did not know Hebrew was "guiding" Galia's hand on an alphabet board of Hebrew letters. And because of what was revealed above, Shoulamit believed that facilitated communication works. So do I, for the same reason.
72 - zingzing
i went to the site as well. as i was at work, i really couldn't watch a 61 minute video, and i have a mac here... so i can't really watch it. but... i read some of the site, and i have to say it sounds a bit like phooey.
if i had been able to watch the video, who knows... but the text itself is highly suspect. exploitation and malarkey are a couple of words that spring to mind.
religion is a human construct that was used to bring order and civility to our societies. as a whole, it has accomplished that task, but then has become perverted into an institution that separates us from each other on political levels. nothing good can last forever.
73 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, I am WAY more open minded than you could ever be, simply because I'm aware that there are lots of things that don't make sense.
You, on the other hand, are always so absolutely certain of what everything means, because you have chosen to interpret it through the framework of your dogma.
I don't have any explanation for the story you entered in your #71 and don't see why any is necessary. As Facilitated Communication is a technique used by people that are without functional speech, it is entirely possible that this child had no problem understanding speech herself.
It's equally possible that she got all the information she gave from her mother or the media, I simply don't know - and nor do you.
The difference is that I would expect to find a rational explanation, whilst you prefer to use a little of that "magical thinking" you're so fond of and claim it as "proof" of your beliefs, which is typical of all people "infected" by the god idea and other quaint superstitions.
I may, to your special way of thinking, have nothing to say on the issue that is worth paying attention to, but you have precious little at all to say that is worth paying attention to, except to rebut the semi-hysterical dogma you keep pouring out.
This is the real danger we are all forced to confront, whether it comes from a Jew, a Christian or a Muslim. You could say that the god concept is the work of the devil, as it is clearly destructive to and divisive of our common humanity. *Sardonic laughter*
74 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
zing,
Many years ago an IRS auditor, bored with his job, was watching basketball games at work. It was one of the few things he could do to get himself summarily fired that did not involve breaking tax laws or violating the confidentiality of a "taxpayer". So, unless you are very dissatisfied with your job, and do not need a letter of recommendation from your employers to find a different one, it was wise of you not to seek to watch a 61 video at work.
You went to the site, looked at it, and can at least react to what you saw. That is really all I asked you to do. Thank you.
That, by itself, puts you miles (or kilometers) ahead of our beknighted comments editor and his vaunted "open mind".
If you have time or the inclination to watch this video at home, do so, and tell me what you think. I'd be curious to read your thoughts.
75 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Chris,
Your attitude, a frozen refusal to look at the evidence someone else presents based on your own pre-judgment of it, is common, all too common, in the world of Jewish "intellectuals" I'm forced to endure, where gefilte fish and corned beef is substituted for actual brains and awareness.
So, you are not alone in your attitudes. You have much company.
And my response?
Cluck, Cluck, Cluck, chicken...