While it can easily be argued that deviantART is simply a cross-section of society, with the good, bad and ugly all mixed in, I think there's something else that needs to be looked at. deviantART (known as "DA" to members) allows many different kinds of art, including many things that to the average person would qualify as disturbing evidence of emotional and psychological problems. As a Policy Violation Administrator for 3 years, I saw literally everything you can think of, including underage nudity, grotesque corpse photos gleaned from the web and submitted as 'original work,' thousands of photos of sliced-open arms and other body parts and more. While DA does have certain guidelines for the submission of work, these rules can be ambiguous at times, and interpreted differently by different administrators.
DA boasts an environment where all are welcome to submit their work, be it a professional photographer like Chris Weeks, a renowned painter like Aaron Jasinski, or simply a eighth-grader who wants a place to show pencil or color drawings. Even though the premise is interesting - even revolutionary at the beginning - the trend at DA over the last few years has seen a serious rise in "crap art," or low-grade work done by untrained amateurs with debatable talent.
The frightening thing about such an environment is not the number of poor artists, however. It's the number of emotionally or psychologically disturbed members of the community who are able to find each other through the common interface of forums, comments, and submissions. Administrators can ban troublesome users and remove offensive pieces from public view, but with a community of tens of thousands of people it is nearly impossible to catch everything. Sadly, much of what is caught is whitewashed or simply ignored.
There are always signs. Sarah Kolb, murderer of her classmate, was involved for some months in a harrassment situation, leaving constant insults and even death threats on the userpages of other members. While her and the other parties involved were all banned repeatedly, the comments themselves remain, a terrifying insight to the mind of a killer. Another minor posted a series of photos depicting his minute-by-minute torture of a gecko lizard. The photos spanned a three-day period until the lizard finally died, much to the frustration of his captor. Ben Fawley's userpage shows a 3D rendering of a human skull, with cryptic references throughout his commentary and journal.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Rich Powers
Very, very strange.
Throughout my travels online, I've always read about deviantART being a place for "goths" and weirdoes (I know that's a stereotype, but it does have some base I'm guessing).
But I do have the site bookmarked because it has free high-resolution desktops that I use, most by very talented artists. Never interacted with the community or visited any page outside of the forums...I guess it's for the better.
2 - Shipwrecked
I know that can take some courage to say in a segment of the world that - rightly or wrongly - seems to set few limits. Thanks, and keep up the good work.
3 - magnumforce2006
Funny...
I've basically only ever viewed the site as a good resource for wallpaper and application skins ;-)
4 - rastafeekee
your husband lift my burka and touched my lotus flower
5 - Dave Nalle
I don't see how DeviantArt as a community can be seen as a significant factor in any of these cases. Its nature is pretty passive. It doesn't tell participants what kind of art or what kind of behavior they should be involved in. It seems far more likely that tightly wound artistic types are attracted to the avant garde character of the site, and are also attracted to risky behavior as a separate interest.
Dave
6 - Kit Jarrell
Their passivity in allowing these types of submissions when their main userbase is under 18 is pretty negligent (I mean that in a moral sense, not a legal one).
My point was not that they should be telling people what kind of art to be involved in. my point was that if they are under 18, they shouldn't be able to view that type so easily on DA. When you put all those factors together, you're going to have problems. It's logical. If you have a room with a large number of pedophiles, you don't put pornography on the big screen 24-7.
The point is, DA is not a place for children, and it IS becoming more disturbing by the day. Consider this: a minor is barred from seeing the "Artistic Nude" section, yet will see an ad for suicidegirls.com. There's a problem there.
The things I talked about in the article were real. I saw it every day for over 3 years. I had more seniority than any other Policy Violation admin there, and more than most admins in the entire community. I know what I'm talking about, and there's a lot I left out. The bottom line is, if you're going to have your community open to children, you need to pay attention to what they have access to.
7 - Dave Nalle
But the question is still whether DA is a symptom of the problem or contributing to it.
Dave
8 - Kit Jarrell
I think it's quite possible to be both. I t's a self-perpetuating cycle.
Kids are f'd up, they go to DA, where they see this type of thing, get more f'd up, submit their own work, which tells DA that they like it, so let's give them what they want.
9 - Dave Nalle
This reminds me a lot of the arguments over heavy metal music and dungeons and dragons.
Dave
10 - N/A
Its not all of us here. I'm a member of DeviantArt. I happen to be under eighteen and I object to this kind of "Art"
I do believe all of this, however, and I myself have seen many emotionally disturbed teens that complained about how bad their lives are. These people are usually found in deviantarts big "Photo Manipulation Section" as I like to call it. So its not really all of DA, even though you can still see morbid things in drawings and such from teens of the "gothic nature"
I do not consider a picture of a young teen covered in blood and sharp pointy objects "Art". They do it seeking for pity is what I believe. Theres alot of things I could say about these kinds of people. But I'm gonna keep it fairly clean. But its not all of us here who submit stuff like that.
ImaginaryHangover of DeviantArt
11 - Sya
I've been following this story too, mostly because I was intrigued by the Deviant Art factor, being a member there myself. I don't feel that DA is a good place for children, but so many of their members are, either by age or by maturity level.
I am not really sure I would say DA is to blame for it though as there are people who are into the dark scene, child porn, and a number of other kinks and perversions in any given community. The only difference is that at DA, artists are praised for being twisted.
I was visiting a chatroom the other day at DA and a young girl said to me "We all deserve praise because we are artists."
I failed to see why just because someone claims to be an artist, other members of society should praise them. But this is the mindset of many in todays artistic online communities... that artists are above all others and that their actions and interests are not manifestations of perversion but "art" when it is presented as such.
12 - Kylere
I really supported you Jark, but BEFORE you were "fired, resigned, quit, etc" all this was true on DA, but it was paying your checks and it caused you no public drama about just how pathetic DA is at it's worst, but NOW you want to complain.
It is truly sad that when you could fix this, you did nothing. But now you whine. For shame, your sense of ethics lacks any real value to you.
13 - Bryn
You talk about DA, like it is forcing these children to become like this, to kill, to self-mutalate, etc. When you refuse to talk about the many people that have gotten help through DA's members and not done such things. Your are sensationalizing the bad thigns and ingoring the good things.
Sure bad stuff happens on DA, because of members on DA, etc. But it also happens on SheezyArt, Live Journals, on any place where a person is allowed to express there opinion, there feelings and themselves. Any place that allows people to express themselves can and will be used for the wrong reasons, and the bigger it is the more people will do it. Just because of a small percent of any site or type of site does this then the whole site should be punished? No. Anyway if DA was abolished, people would just go to even more sleezy sites like it and post there. All that would happen is that everyone would go from one art site to another and when they get there they would find all the people that DA banned back with them again. Like again (not to single any out) sheezyart, a DA knock off that in a way ends up getting all the people that DA has banned for good, it gets lots of art thieves, the policy violators, etc. Not that there aren't good people there but it is just known to have alot of that on it.
Take what you are posting your opinion in, Blogs, I am positive that there are places that have horribly racist, sexist, derogetory, etc. blogs but that does not mean that all blogs are bad and should be done away with.
So really, deviantart may be your current beef and you may think that getting rid of DA would get rid of all of these things but it won't. Murders, child porn, grudges, self-mutilation and the likes will exist with or without it. Removing DA would just be punishing alot of good artists who are really trying to let there art be seen and appriciated by more people than close friends or just themselves. Why punish the majority of the Deviant artists on DA for the few things that the scum on there have done.
14 - Dave Nalle
Of course, no one brings up the real objection to DA, it's godawful, inflexible, user-unfriendly interface.
Dave
15 - demabloggery
I taught secondary for ten years and I can tell you in no uncertain terms that kids ARE affected by what they see. There are certainly the primary factors; uninvolved parents, poor social skills, bullying by other kids, but kids don't really have the experience to draw upon when differentiating reality from fantasy. They don't see consquences for their actions, and many times we are simply a prop in an elaborate fantasy we don't even realize is going on.
Marilyn Manson isn't to blame for Columbine. DeviantART isn't either. But don't think for even a second that it isn't a factor, and that no responsible parent would allow a kid with serious issues to listen or watch that bullshit.
16 - Abinadi
This story personally makes me sick. I didn't enjoy your repetition (almost to the point where i would skip whole sentences because I felt I already read it) about "distrubed" teenagers and your oh so holy ex-vantage point of "administrator."
Personally I believe dA is too strict in their policy violations. Messages of extreme hate, blasphemy, and even murder CAN be art, if presented correctly... however these are all whiped clean away in the current submission policy, as well as any explicitly sexually themed work of art.
What exactly do you want a primarily volunteer staff to do? They are keeping up with policy violations better now then they ever have under Jark's command. As soon as an offending piece of art is found by a member or staff member, its sent with its ticket to them. If it comes out clean and back into galleries, then someone can send it back AGAIN. It's not a perfect system, but with the thousands of pieces of art that come through daily, I'm more then a bit impressed by the efficieny of the current Policy Violation team.
I have a few guesses as to who you could be, but to be honest the point is that you have an agenda to ruin deviantart inc. That was the point of this article.. not to help out struggling teens, not to safely allow them an outlet for all their misunderstood feelings, not to help the largest art community in the world... you simply want to destroy it because you can no longer be apart of it. of course it's going to change, everything does, and so does a group of hundreds of thousands of artists.
why do you hate the community you used to love so much? because it isn't the reasons you provided, those have *always* been there.
17 - opalesque
There are a lot of disturbed people at deviantart, but a lot of more normal people too. I would say that the majority of young people there are simply looking for attention of some sort or another... DA itself is not a bad site, though I think the Jark fiasco (the "bad business practices" that the author mentioned) is making people think long and hard about all aspects of the site. Any time you bring that many people (all self-proclaimed artists) together, you're going to have some trouble among them. I don't think that DA has anything to do with murders committed by its members, but rather the darker aspects of DA are due to some people like them coming in... but instead of shunning them, showing people kindness will help them.
18 - Eric Olsen
very powerful and disturbing Kit, although I do understand the extreme complexities of trying to run a generally "open" "community-based" site. I agree that under-18 children are the real issue here, and thin in order to move forward, DA will have to much more severely restrict their access to the site.
Thanks!
19 - Kit Jarrell
opalesque:
"I have a few guesses as to who you could be, but to be honest the point is that you have an agenda to ruin deviantart inc. That was the point of this article.. not to help out struggling teens, not to safely allow them an outlet for all their misunderstood feelings, not to help the largest art community in the world... you simply want to destroy it because you can no longer be apart of it. of course it's going to change, everything does, and so does a group of hundreds of thousands of artists.
why do you hate the community you used to love so much? because it isn't the reasons you provided, those have *always* been there."
Actually, you don't have to "guess" at who I was, as I never was hiding it. My name on DA was euphoria. As for my 'agenda', I assure you that there is not some behind the scenes motive to 'ruin' da. I don't hate the community at all. You seem to be under the impression that I am no longer an admin through circumstances I did not control. However, I made a conscious choice to resign my position, and I'm glad I did.
As for as me not wanting to "help struggling teens", you're showing either your age or your beliefs about personal responsibility. Letting a bunch of "struggling teens" get together while you show them a whole lot of violence, gore, sex, etc and then tell them that's what's "cool"....I think I'm helping them far more by getting the word out to parents that they need to step up and take a look at the site and what it's offering their kids. They need to step up and parent.
20 - datagram
"Comment 8 posted by Kit Jarrell on October 8, 2005 04:14 AM:
I think it's quite possible to be both. I t's a self-perpetuating cycle.
Kids are f'd up, they go to DA, where they see this type of thing, get more f'd up, submit their own work, which tells DA that they like it, so let's give them what they want."
This is riddled with logical fallacies. First off, the entire second paragraph is what is commonly referred to as a 'slippery slope' logical fallacy. This presumes that one thing inevitably leads to another, based more on presumption more so than any real evidence. It is akin to saying something as foolish as, "Banning ethical slurs means no more freedom of speech." To say that kids are already screwed up means that you cannot blame DeviantART (or any influences) for their actions. If they were screwed up before going to DeviantART, it cannot be the root of their delinquency. That is, if these children were screwed up before the fact, then they would still be screwed up with or without visiting DeviantART. Also, just as Ozzy Osbourne music didn't actually tell kids, "Go kill yourself, you stupid punk." neither does DeviantART.
You also fail to see that many of the arguements you present are based on appealing to the emotions and prejudices of the masses (ad populum), or by attacking someone as a person without a connection to the topic at hand (ad hominem). How does 'skulz' child porn connection have anything to do with the topic at hand? You are doing nothing but associating the person on DeviantART with a very disliked subject, though it's relevance to juvenile delinquency on DeviantART is absent. By doing this you make readers believe this person is a terrible man, regardless of whether he really is or not, and subsequently bias their opinions.
Several other problems exist, but I think I have done enough to point out the problem with this text. One last problem I'd like to point out is the argument concerning the rise of "crap-art." This also has nothing to do with the topic, and is entirely subjective. Not everyone is a Picasso or a Van Gogh, and everyone "has to start somewhere." DeviantART is also very open about posting any skill level of art. It is not a site where you come to showcase your masterpiece collection for most users. It provides a reliable and free way to manage, store, and share your art. This is why it is so popular.
If you want to make the case for DeviantART contributing to people being murdered, threatened, or any other number of punishable crimes, you have to make an arguement that makes sense. Most of this argument is based on flawed logic, the belief that one thing leads directly to another, that someone is easily manipulated by graphic images (and that this manipulation would produce undesirable results in youth), that the rise in "crap-art" is to blame for anything, that because a person does something that it directly relates to their interests, and many other problems commonly seen in opinion pieces.
datagram
http://datagram.deviantart.com
oct 2005
21 - CConnor
This may be true. But you say this, and forgot that there's another site which people like this pry on. In fact probably on a site with less rules than DA
A deviant has a chose to turn off viewing Mature art. It is up to the deviant.
You don't need to be on DA to see the same images. Almost every art site will have someone who submits the image. And personal sites will be worse
Plus, people with that mentallity, won't matter if they view anything on various artsites/personal sites
22 - Ahz
I don't see how the kids being murderers and them being members of dA are connected in any way.
Yes, there's "angsty" poetry, pictures, and stories on Deviantart. Yes, there's gore. But isn't it true that if you express yourself and talk about your feelings with people your age, you can deal with those feelings better?
Of course, don't listen to me. I'm just an "angsty underage" of Deviantart who is obviously about to turn into a homocidal maniac because I watch violent flash movies.
But then again, I may have gotten those feelings from every other violent thing in the world, eh?
23 - Roko
Honestly, this article sickens me. I see more generalisations and assumptions than I see in my school, and I didn't think that was possible. You are basically accusing the entirety of DeviantArt to be bad because of a percentage of users that is basically equivalent to or less than the percentage of diagnosed schizophrenics in the United States. (And in this percentage I'm only including those who have committed horrible crimes and such. Because I really see most of the little "goth" types on the site as attention-seekers who probably have some teenage equivalent of Histrionic Personality Disorder.)
DeviantArt is not full of psychotic nutcases looking to hurt people. I've met plenty of people through that site, in the chatrooms or forums, and they've all been nice to me (except for one, but that was due to miscommunication).
In any community, there is going to be a minority of depraved people. The larger the community, the more of them there will be. Simple common sense there.
And about the "art." I can't speak for anyone else, but drawing things of a violent nature often help me to NOT commit any violent acts myself. When I'm pissed off at someone, if I draw a picture that's almost as bad as the stuff in Battle Royal, I feel better. The more I've gotten into my art, the less I've had problems controlling my temper. Precisely because I vent on paper.
This site's even HELPED me. Before I came to DeviantArt, I had horrible, debilitating social phobias and related issues that kept me from participating in life. I couldn't do an oral report at school, and I couldn't even go into a chatroom without having a borderline panic attack. Since then, the community spirit of the site has helped me be more open and friendly to people, and it's been affecting my life. I can go up to cashiers and buy something from them (couldn't before), my hands don't shake hard enough to keep my from typing in chatrooms, and I've stopped getting horrendous participation grades in school. I can TALK to people now, because I came to DeviantArt and was exposed to plenty of friendly people, most of whom don't live on the same continent as me. So don't you dare try to tell me that this community is having a negative effect on my mental health and is going to get me raped and murdered, or turn me into a murderer.
And if seeing certain things messes up kids' brains, DeviantArt is the least of the problems, then. There's the rest of the Internet (especially if the parents have not installed filters on their browsers), there's TV (Dave Chappelle, Cartoon Network's Adult Swim, Playboy Channel) there's music (Eminem, Marylin Manson, NIN, Rammstein provided they understand it, alternative and hard rock in general), there's strangers, there's REAL LIFE (accidents, murders, domestic violence, car crashes, etc.).
But hey, what do I know? I'm a teenaged girl who listens to industrial rock and has a couple of bloody pictures in her gallery. I must be some sort of mentally challenged nutcase, or a wannabe thereof.
24 - Christy
I completely agree. I've been a member of DA since October of 2002. It's gone totally downhill. The scary part of all of this is, that I talked to Sarah Kolb on many occasions. She was posing as "Liam," I did a potrait of "Liam" because I'd talked to "him" many times online. It wasn't until some random person (I'm assuming an acquaintence of Cory or Sarah, since she/he sort of stuck up for them) Im'ed me on AIM one night and sent me the link to The Dark Side Of True Crime (I'm sure you've been there). I'd been threated through DA notes from Liam (Sarah) while I still talked to him/her, and the things she said were not pretty. It took me a long time to stop having nightmares about the situation. But now that this thing with Taylor has come up, I have a feeling they are going to come back. I used to complain about my parents peering over my shoulder while I was online, but I now completely understand why. I've since then taken off alot of information and deviations because of things like this; I watched the dateline tonight on Taylor and it's getting out of hand. My thoughts go out to her family and friends and I hope nothing like this happens again.
25 - Colette
D/A is a place where those who want to express their thoughts and ideas through art can do so just like those who choose to respond to blogs like this one. One could easily find a murder in a chat room or posting in a blog it has nothing to do with art. Maybe they all visit google too so does that make a connection between murder and google. NO it doesn't.