... and if you ate meat, you ain’t gettin’ any.
It’s not enough to be a vegetarian these days; you have to be a vegan with all the attendant headaches of ‘cruelty free’ accouterments and baggage. Even this is not enough though, as in their moral pique, they often feel the need to convert innocent meat eaters who may cross their paths at dinner time.…
Article comments
26 - STM
Patriotic Vegans of Australia
27 - Catey
It's uncomfortable, even scary, to have your value system questioned. Maybe it's because we dont want to believe we could have been fooled.Or wrong in front of others.
So Ashtoreth has offered us some food for thought, and made us laugh to boot!! Yay!!
28 - Sean Mahoney
Very funny and very true! I too live in Los Angeles and see the vegan kids everywhere. I can always pick them out based on the grey skin tone.
29 - JIM @ BLISS
I am a lacto vegetarian...who owns and runs an artspace/cafe featuring same in Baguio City.
I DO also see humor in what you are saying...don't be affected by the veggie attack you seem to be under.
Jim @ BLISS
30 - Ashtoreth
Jim, you are a peach -
with creme fraiche on top. :)
I am not offended by the veggies at all, even the crabby ones. I enjoy a spirited debate. You are chivalrous to come to my defense.
As my husband and I were discussing (while polishing off some shrimp sauteed in olive oil, doused with spices and steamed to finish), in countries like Southern India where meat is not only scarce, but impracticable due to potential for spoilage, lacto vegetarianism makes sense with the added uses of vegetable protiens from cooked dhal and rice.
If you kill the cow in this case where heat and scarcity is the rule, you kill off a source of vital nourishment for a family or community in the form of fresh whole milk, butter, ghee, and various forms of cheeses. This gives important bio-amino acids, and saturated fats. Milk protein is best absorbed as are its minerals, in its whole form, with the fat.
That is how the Hindus have survived for many hundreds of years. They would not even contemplate giving up the animal proteins they get from cow milk products. The same could be said of peoples who herded goats or sheep.
This kind of lacto-vegetarianism is natural for such areas. Still, it is not the ideal, and the Vedic Indian texts advocate meats (though not obviously sacred cow - way to keep people from killing the cows LOL).
In many cultures there would be 'feast days' when an animal (goat/sheep etc.) would be killed and enjoyed by the people. This was something prized, not passed up. These were holidays, holy-days.
The Chinese treasure meat if they can get it. They often could not. Vegetarianism evolved to help starving people. There is no reason to do that in a Northern Hemisphere country where meat was traditionally raised and eaten by European settlers who also were meat eaters. Even Buddhist monks who eschew meat, were allowed to eat meat if weak from illness and needing to build up their strength.
A vegetarian who appreciates the animal proteins of milk products and even fish is a far cry from the extreme vegans.
Another funny LA-Vegan-culture story... ;)
I had been in a very popular vegan restaurant, putting on my Margaret Mead glasses and investigating a strange culture. My beefy (weight-lifting)husband, who is one step removed from a lion, went with me unwillingly and declared he was earning major brownie-karma points for going along.
He ordered a vegan 'impressionist sandwich' of a Reuben made from Tempeh. While he examined his lunch like it was contemporary art, I naively asked our waiter for some honey for my tea.
"We do not serve honey!" he said, looking disdainfully down his nose.
I was confused. "Why not?"
"Because it enslaves the bees." he replied, irritated at what he imagined should have been obvious. This is deranged. Honey has been prized since pre-biblical days.
I was floored.
To make things worse, my husband muttered under his breath, "Something is missing here...
The waiter turned.
Husband deadpans, "I know. It's the meat!"
If looks could kill. ;))
You'll be a lot healthier in mind and body as a lacto-vegetarian than as a full-on veggie. It becomes a kind of philosophical limbo I find... how extreme can you go?
Still, these are smart people to begin with. (They wouldn't be reading and sparring on BlogCritics otherwise.) ;) Vegans are attracted to veganism intellectually, and then it becomes a limbo-ing addiction. Unfortunately, the harm it does to the body is sometimes hard to repair.
That book on Traditional foods and the Weston Price Site www.westonaprice.com bear looking at. People were healthier, thinner, had less depression, etc. before the food industry/government started promoting what are now mainstream misinformations.
Perhaps the best thing to take from being a vegan is an appreciation of vegetables and vegetable dishes from different cultures, but really, scientifically, this is not enough.
Do you have a website for you art/cafe? I remember such charming places from when I lived in Houston. Very eclectic spirited places. Sounds like the owner is too.
Also, where is Baguio City?
31 - Will
You'll be a lot healthier in mind and body as a lacto-vegetarian than as a full-on veggie. It becomes a kind of philosophical limbo I find... how extreme can you go?
I dunno, my I switched from an ovo-lacto vegetarian to vegan around two months ago and I've felt much healthier and energetic. Maybe because since switching I've been a lot more careful to eat well. Who knows? If I drop dead I'll let you know. Oh, wait, no I won't.
As for honey, I don't find it that extreme. If you don't use animals for food, then you don't use animals for food. I don't really see why bees should get shafted just 'cos they're all... um... bee-like.
I dunno, I just don't find it extreme. I love food, I cook like crazy, I feel great, and I don't really feel like I'm depriving myself.
32 - Ashtoreth
Hi Will,
I should confess, I've experimented with many kinds of vegetarianism in my life, including veganism at one point. I became extremely thin (I was happy at the time LOL) but I also developed serious problems, weakened immune system, asthma, panic attacks, multiple chemical sensitivities - and an acoustic neuroma, a type of intracranial brain tumor which cost me the hearing/balance nerve on my left side.
I am still beautiful, thank god/dess due to the skill of my surgeons. To look at me, you would not know that I've had brain surgery, nor that I am something of a cyborg with titanium in my head.
Which officially makes me a metal-head.
At the time that I was a vegetarian/vegan I was very intellectually engaged and thought I was doing all the right things. It cost me my health, and almost cost me my life. It was in the fight and journey to getting back my health that I learned and applied the principles I've outlined.
I always thought I was healthy. I was deluded. There is a huge difference in the way my body is formed/muscled now than before. My asthma is in remission and I am just generally stronger. Rare red meat became one of my medicines. Ditto butter, along with my natural use of olive oil.
One of the first books I got (when my binocular vision returned LOL as that is part of what you lose with your vestibular sense, as well as not being able to walk, just fall on the floor) was 'The Mood Cure' for information on feeding the brain.
The Omega 3 fatty acids from Nordic Naturals were prescribed by one of my doctors and definitely helped with brain speed and memory. My diet did not provide the quality of proteins and fats for health. Now, it does.
As for the honey, why don't you Google the health principles of honey, bee pollen, propolis, etc. Man and bee go back to almost pre-historic times. Bee keepers tend to be extremely healthy and long lived. They studied them in Russia.
The peasant bee keepers were living into their late 90's or centarians, functioning, tending bees and hiking around. Their customers who they'd sold the 'best' honey too, did not live as long. Turned out the bee keepers kept the 'lesser' honey at the bottom of the barrel and the sludge, the bee pollen, for themselves and their families. These are marvel foods.
In New Zealand they do studies on their bush honey, which is tremendously healing. They grade it for certain properties. They even use it on burns so that the bandages do not rip up the delicate new skin when being changed.
In Ancient Egypt, Hebrew, Greek societies, Honey and bee products were prized. The dead on Greek ships were preserved in vats of honey for storage until they returned home. Wounds were dressed with honey for its anti-bacterial properties, to prevent gangrene and loss of limbs/death.
The American Indians have a tradition of using honey and especially the propolis which is anti-bacterial, keeping the bees healthy as part of healing formulas. 'Wellness Formula' at Whole Foods has propolis in it, and isatis and horehound, the Amerindians used for upper upper-respiratory bugs.
So there you have it. Per vegetarianism and esp. veganism versus a more traditional diet, I've been my own laboratory.
I can attest to the mind-bending paradigm shifts required to entertain, let alone attempt changes based on research, and I sympathize. I would have shrieked and fought as hard as any of you; but when your life depends on it, you do what you have to do.
I hope none of you veggies have to go through the pain, terror, and suffering I did, partly due to my own stubbornness about nutrition principles that were not correct. I hope you remember to think like intellectuals who examine fearlessly, and not dogmatists.
Dogmatists can be controlled. Intellectuals are more wild and dangerous. They can examine, think, and change their mind. They are not easily rounded up as 'sheeple' in political/consumer movements.
As someone who values her brain as much as her beauty, I take the care and feeding of the brain as utmost importance. Interestingly, the brain and the skin evolve from the same embryonic tissue, so when you give the brain the nourishment it needs, esp. the healthy fats, you are feeding your sikin. This from Dr. Nicholas Pericone, dermatologist and skin researcher.
Women get fillers and injections of silicone, restyline, and all kinds of things to fill out their facial architecture, but are terrified of eating enough healthy proteins, and the types of fats that lead to plush radiant skin.
Lads, before I lose you, your looks count too. When you look younger, you are seen as more viable in the job and mating markets. Skip the botox. Eat your fish oils, and butter, and wild salmon (another nod to Dr. Perricone). Take a look at old veggies sometime. They don't age well.
Seriously, read 'The Mood Cure' (see Amazon link above.) There is more information than I could share here.
33 - Elvira Black
Dogmatists also tend to have zero sense of humor along with zero tolerance.
Speaking of pussycats--there are some misguided folks who attempt to feed their cats a veggie diet. Not feasable since they need animal protein to survive.
I can't help but think back to vocal vegan River Phoenix--who of course OD'd on vegan drugs.
On the other hand, I hate needless cruelty to animals, and the way animals are kept and butchered today is doubtless not pretty. I think kosher butchering is more humane.
Vegan or not, plenty of fruit and veggies is doubtless a good thing. Most Americans don't get enough of that.
Great, funny piece!
34 - Ray Ellis
One thing that is often overlooked is we have canine teeth--not exactly biologically designed to be vegan.
35 - Jessica
"One thing that is often overlooked is we have canine teeth--not exactly biologically designed to be vegan."
Huh? Are you sure you're not a vampire? I haven't seen any humans with the sharp canines of a carnivore. Even a gorilla has fangs WAY bigger and sharper than ours! Bears are omnivores. Compare your so-called omnivorous "canines" and "claws" to a bear!
Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6 times their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12 times their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
Carnivores' stomachs are 20 times more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly -- they don't have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
Carnivores don't require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore's digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.
I suggest you check out the link I included as the URL.
36 - Ashtoreth
Jessica, thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your opinions, and it is your health. Meanwhile, I have to get back to the chicken curry I am making. (Seriously.)
37 - STM
The real truth to all this might lie in the fact that humans were eating meat AND vegetables from the year dot.
It seems to me that any argument in favour of vegan eating habits loses sight of the fact that humans intrinsically knew what diet was good for them, and part of that diet included meat.
That's why I don't buy the vegan/vegetarian nexus on a health level. It's generally an ideological standpoint, and fair enough if that's your go.
But like ex-smokers and right-wing "christian" evangelical God-botherers, most vegans and more than a few vegetarians (not all, though, by a longshot) are very annoying in their judgment of people who don't hold to their views.
The responses to Ashtoreth's story might be indicative ...
38 - STM
And I'll add here, if a vegansexual didn't want to have sex with me (and I certainly wouldn't seek it out, and possibly I wouldn't blame them but I digress), I'd probably be quite happy about that - as I do like a little bit of meat in both the literal and figurative senses.
39 - Christopher Rose
So, would a vegan refuse to go down on their lover? ;-)
40 - Silver Surfer
Only if they a) weren't into it; or b) discovered they were eating a bit of meat on the sly (like a surfing mate of mine who was married to a vegetarian and who used to stop for two dirty great Aussie-style hamburgers with bacon and egg on the way to the beach in the morning, and then tell us not to tell his wife).
She suspects, though ...
41 - Ashtoreth
Ok, for all the veggies and omnivores out there here is surprising news.
T-rex is in the barnyard and feathers are flying! ;)
42 - ManInMelbourne
Hello there,
Shall we please stop mud-slinging at each other?
Any vegansexual females in Melbourne interested in a vegetariansexual male??
Cheers,
Vegetariansexual Male
43 - Ashtoreth
You are too cute ManInMelbourne. If I knew of any, I'd send 'em your way. :)
44 - TaraNoelle
Walter Sear you are amazing. But do not fear, there are some vegan women such as myself that are not clueless.