The Michael Jackson child molestation trial touched upon almost everything we ponder: celebrity, fabulous wealth, the media, sensationalism, law, image, race, sex, eccentricity, a whole lot of cosmetic surgery, and oh yeah, he's a singer or something. We followed it.…
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— go to most recent comments76 - bhw
Yeah, the mother/family seems shady, but so does MJ....
Unfortunately for the kids involved, it's a lose-lose proposition. Either the violations happened, in which case they've been scarred, or their mother is pushing them to lie, in which case they're scarred.
The real shame of it will be if MJ is guilty in fact but the defense is able to present reasonable doubt because the mother is a grifter.
77 - james
I'm sorry but this case has got way to many contradictions in it the prosecuting family will and are digging their own graves. If happened what they say happened then why are they all telling a different account from each other and why if you notice was star arviso finishing sneddon's questions for him if this kids family aren't scripting themselves then i'm a monkeys uncle and as lyn says just because somebody's different to what we ourselves percieve as normal doesn't mean he's a bad person (eccentric and childlike i'll give you)if a persons not doing any harm then we should let them get on with their choice of lifestyle. I just think because he's had a bad child hood he wants to do as much as he can to give under priviliged kids the childhood he didn't have and act like a surrogate father figure to them. If you believe he molested this kid then you may as well say he molests his own kids COME ON!. Right :-) that's me off my soap box folks all i can say is that the truth always comes out whatever the truth may be eventually.sorry for the rant but it's how i feel ttfn :-))
78 - Eric Olsen
James, I agree: if he's not doing any harm then let him do his thing in peace, but it is far from clear he hasn't been doing any harm
bhw, agree totally: sucks all the way around. If he is found not guilty, they will probably go to civil court a la OJ, nad perhaps win there with the lower standard of proof.
79 - Sandra Smallson
This case will not be lost on a technicality. By that I mean, if MJ is found "not guilty" in this case, no matter what you think of him, it is safe to say he is not guilty if the Prosecution's case continues to disintegrate as it is doing at the moment. You can think what you want of the 1993 case. That never came to Trial so everyone can draw conclusions from the settlement as they see fit.
If Jackson wins because the family have been found to be liars and the evidence put together just does not hold up to what the accusation is, then, that's that! The defense is not just poking holes in the allegations, so you can not say, MJ might have done it but the defense are good.
The defense is poking holes in the Prosecution's case and using those holes to support their defense that this is a sting. A set up. Now, they may present testimony or evidence during their run, to support this alternative view point they have provided. I hope they do. If all this is done and Mj is found not guilty, then it is BECAUSE he is not guilty of the allegations.
The defense points seem so little but they make a huge point..little things like wine..
Star is confused..one minute it is red, one minute it is white, one minute he looked in the can, next minute he saw just the top..and he had never tasted wine till he got to Neverland, or saw girly mags etc.
I know what 9plus year old boys these days get up to and it should come as no shock if it is alleged that Gavin and Star tried the alcohol themselves or checked out the porn themselves. No computers in Neverland. Gavin had a computer and all he did on it was what? Look up academic sites? Till Mj showed him porn sites right? Yah right! Come, Come, Boys... Go sell crazy someplace else kids, I'm all booked up here.
80 - Eric Olsen
I think it highly possible there was a "sting" aspect to it, at least from the mother's point of view, but that also some/all of the allegations are true, hence the possibility of dueling scummatry
81 - james
Hi sandra and all.it is 1.30pm here in telford england and await the next screening of the sky news reconstruction which is on at 2.30pm is anybody else watching these reinactments and what do they think about the way the are being done?. And for the people who think he hasn't been in touch with the real world i quote a line from "childhood":People say i'm not okay cause i love such elementry things it's in my fate to compensate for the childhood i've never known". now to me that shows an awareness of what people think of him so with this knowledge do you think he would really write about these things and then do exactly what people think he is doing? even if your not an mj fan maybe you could read some of the words in his songs as they are very revealing about the superstar that is mj also another line from they don't care about us is "i'm tired of being a victim of shame you put me into a class with a bad name i can't believe this is the land fom which i came". Any views on this also?:-)
82 - Eric Olsen
good points James and I am eager to hear what you think of the reconstructions, which i have not yet seen. But self-awareness does not equate to immunity from compulsions
83 - james
As a fan of mj i appreciate peoples views which is why i have decided to join your debate eric.(didn't realize it was your website i'm impressed!).I am following only official court releases and statements so that i get the actually facts of what is going on if you can get to see sky news then the reconstructions which are very good will be on at 9.30am and 2.30pm english time(i'm assuming theres not only people from the uk on here).I will try and give the best interpretation of the sky news program that i can without sounding totally biased because i expect you would like neutral opinions. ok i'm gonna get ready to see the next installment i think star arviso is the witness again for his second day this week.ttfn:-))
84 - Eric Olsen
thanks James, very cool of you
85 - Sandra Smallson
I am following the reconstructions James. They are fantastic. If you can't have the real thing, this will do. Now, I am more interested in what is being said than the mannerisms of the actors because that's just a matter of interpretation..However, I must admit that when you read the transcripts and watch the reconstruction, the actors are saying and acting just as you visualise the speaker acting while you are reading it yourself.
They are depicting most of the emotion accurately according to my interpretation anyway.
Eric, there is a point which I think is very important before people can argue that it is still possible for both sides to be telling half truths at least. These "alleged molestations" happened in the aftermath of the "disaster" that was the Bashir Documentary.
I find it astonishing that educated people and even semi literates can not see that these allegations have all the hallmarks of a sting. A complete set up.
In this time when there was panic, mayhem and confusion in the Jackson camp, admited by all parties..MJ is alleged to have then molested Gavin FOUR TIMES? During this time when Sneddon decides to start another witch hunt, MJ chooses this time to molest this Gavin boy? Quite frankly, it is no coincidence in my opinion that the molestations are said to have happened after the investigation started. It is a SET UP. Plain and simple. Jackson has been with these boys for months on end and all of a sudden when he is being investigated by a man with wacko bloodlust, and what little is left of his reputation is in shreds after Bashirs hatchet job, he begins to fondle lil' Gavin. It is preposterous and the fact that it came to Trial shows that the American legal TV dramas truly base their storylines on the reality that is the American legal system. Anything can happen. It's all entertainment.
Of course I am enjoying reading about it and having debates online and with friends at home BUT..the more I hear, the more I feel justified for my position on this case. Perhaps, something will happen and I might think otherwise but it better happen soon because it's looking like I am right. Also looking forward to DR Katz(spell?)...Perhaps he can give us a psychological explanation as to why the accounts of the crime differ so much from when they told him to during the Trial. One would think what they told Katz should be far more accurate if anything did happen since it was nearer the time of the crime. Why they insist on not remembering that, and insist on us believing that accounts in Trial are more accurate is a mystery to me and I dare say anyone with any sense.
86 - james
Well folks this could be the start of the end for the arvizo family. Star arvizo has just totally wrecked his credentials as a prosecution witness. Firstly i don't know if you know that star arvizo told police that michael jackson had shown them the adult magazine barely legal, and that the particular picture was of a blonde woman in shorts pulling her top up. The court showed him the alleged picture and star arvizo said it was the one. BUT! what the boy failed to notice was the picture was from a copy of the magazine that was in fact bought 3 or 4 months after the family left neverland expalin that one ha ha!. And he also admitted lying under oath. Now if the allegations you are putting forward are true you would have no reason to lie.So why did he under oath go ahead and lie?.It sort of makes you look forward to the rest of the family testifying because they have all put a good case forward for the defence what ever people thoughts, tell me this doesn't look one sided?.And before i forget star also said that there were not any computers at all in neverland, the only person he said had a computer was this tyson bloke on mj's security team which i might add the boy himself said the computer was only on when tyson was on the computer. So on the one hand he said mj showed him porn on the internet and then the next said there wasn't any computers in neverland which on is it?. I will let you draw your own conclusions on todays events what does anybody else think about this and is there anything i might of missed?
87 - Sandra Smallson
What I think of the whole madness, is directly above your post, James. Please, What site do you read your transcripts from? Sky? Or?...
88 - Eric Olsen
isn't that the testimony from yesterday, though? I talked about it here
89 - Sandra Smallson
Yes, it's yesterday's testimony Eric, which is why I am curious as to where James is reading his transcripts.
90 - james
Sorry about missing your post sandra and others i'm full of the flu and probably overlooked it.I get some of my facts from mjjsource.com,(ok you could argue they would be biased but i think they are taking both sides because they print both negative and positive court recounts),sky news.com and reluctantly from the smoking gun.Are you in the united staes eric? if so here in england we get the information later than you (i think, not sure now, bloody hell i sound like star arvizo ha ha!).I agree about the half truths to a certain degree but i think it is clear (at the moment) that the allegations of molestation hold no ground, sorry if repeating myself can't think straight at the moment:-)
91 - james
Oh by the way sorry for the typing problems i am rsa qualified but my keyboards old and when i start typing i haven't noticed the unprinted letters.If any of you know any better sites i would be grateful as i want the most accurate info thanks again:-)
92 - Eric Olsen
no prob, James, thanks - AP seems o be the quickest in getting reports up, but they aren't transcripts
93 - james
Iv'e just been reading the mounting evidence section of your site (eric).And the stuff about the scandel of finding his fingerprints on his own stuff is quite funny and witty. I might be wrong but at the start of this forum you seemed quite against jacko have your views changed at all about him and why?.
94 - Eric Olsen
James, the fingerprint story was bhw's, she's funny
I have a wide variety of feelings regarding Jackson and always have. I was a very big fan of his as an entertainer, I have felt sorry for him regarding his lost childhood and emotional fragility, but I also think there is nothing remotely close to an excuse for much of his behavior and find what he has done to his appearance appalling and reprehensible. And I think his relationship with children is unhealthy whether or not he has committed specifically criminal acts.
I don't think this trial is going very well for the prosecution so far, and I am trying to be neutral and honest regarding the progress of the trial, which is somewhat separate from whether I think he did what he was accused of.
But I would also say I am less sure he did the things he has been charged with now than I was at the beginning of the trial, so you are right about that.
There's a long way to go, however.
New story up here, by the way
95 - james
Thanks for your honest answer eric. But i think the subject of his plastic surgery goes to a deep level of his psychie(spelling?) it is well documented that jo jackson was quite ruthless with his children and that he particularly picked on michael about his nose saying it was ugly and that he was nothing. It is also confirmed that joe would beat mj if he didn't do what he told him to do, by this i mean he wasn't allowed to play with his local kids he had to practice and perform from the age of 5yrs old, mj has also said that he was scared of his dad to ridicoulous degree, you shouldn't be petrified of your parents, not at 5yrs old, it is also documented that he had extensive plastic surgery on his scalp and forehead after the infamous pepsi ad tragedy where the pyro technic lights set his head on fire. What youv'e got to consider also is the fact he is an african american so where as scars aren't noticable on us so much he would of had a white scar the full circumference of his head, so yes he did have plastic surgery but it was neccesary, as for his nose mate mj says that because he looked like his dad, he hated looking at his face, this was because of what his dad represented to him at the time, and so changed it erase this memory, yes it is a bit dramatic but in a roundabout way i understand why he has done it oh well back to the case. Hi sandra what are your thoughts on gavin arviso's statements because i missed most of sky news's reconstruction and haven't a clue whether wev'e got any further?:-)
96 - james
correction to last post:i meant scars on caucasion people hope i didn't offend anybody by saying us?:-?
97 - Andrew Ian Dodge
Whoops he is under threat of arrest as he is trying to blow off court again. This time he has a back-ache, the Court ain't buying it.
Michael Jackson in prison should be an interesting thing to watch.
98 - james
Although admittedly not a strong enough reason for missing trial, I think he maybe under a severe amount of stress and this can cause what they call "phantom illness" although psychologically driven it they have what appears to be very real symptoms, i suppose like phantom pregnancies, this is just theory but it's certainly not going to do him any favours, lets hope he sorts himself out.:-)
99 - bhw
Or, he's just a drama queen.
100 - james
to listen to some people on the other forums on this site it's a witch hunt not a modern day trial.ie: A person is a witch if they float?, and if they drown theyr'e not?,now either way the innocent/guilty person loses their life,in other words is somebodys guilt based on whether somebody "thinks" they are thank god we have modern day trials is all i can say!.I know a slightly different version of this is repeated by me on the other forum but i wasn't quite sure which one it applied to?lol!
101 - james
from mjj source.com(c)
Day 8 in Michael Jackson's trial brought the accuser to the witness stand. He said he once considered Mr. Jackson "the coolest guy in the world."
The 15-year-old was not asked about the molestation allegations before court ended for the day, but described viewing adult Internet sites with Mr. Jackson present and said the singer told him to "call me daddy" during the taping of a documentary.
With an expression that appeared to verge on a sneer, the young cancer survivor said ‘yes’ when District Attorney Tom Sneddon asked him if he recognized the defendant.
The accuser followed to the stand his 14-year-old brother, who testified amidst a list of conflicting stories.
Mr. Jackson's defense contends the family has a history of filing false claims to get money.
The boy said Mr. Jackson invited him to Neverland the first time they talked. He said Mr. Jackson called his hospital room as he was being treated for cancer, and they later talked on the phone about 20 times.
Many times the accuser has been heard saying that Mr. Jackson is the reason he is alive today, that Mr. Jackson had a great deal to do with his recovery from cancer. However, today, under questioning by Sneddon, the boy stated that he had been told to say that.
When asked if that was true, the boy said, "Not really. He was hardly there during my cancer," and that other celebrities such as comedian George Lopez visited him more often while he was sick.
"Did you admire Mr. Mr. Jackson?" Sneddon asked.
"I thought he was the coolest guy in the world. He was my best friend ever," the boy said.
Earlier Wednesday, the accuser's younger brother, under cross-examination by defense lawyer Thomas Mr. Mesereau Jr., admitted major contradictions between his testimony and his other accounts of allegedly seeing Mr. Jackson molest his brother.
During questioning by the prosecution the boy told of twice looking through the doorway of Mr. Jackson's bedroom as the pop star molested his sleeping brother.
Mr. Mesereau confronted, pointing out another glaring discrepancy, the witness with a previous statement to sheriff's investigators in which he said that during the second incident he was in the room curled up on a small couch pretending to sleep.
When Mr. Mesereau asked if his account of the second molestation had changed, the boy suddenly interjected that there were actually three incidents, although that has never, ever been alleged.
(Excerpts from Transcripts " March 8, 2005)
ACCUSER’S BROTHER: I was nervous while I was doing the interview.
MR. MESEREAU: Because you were nervous you didn't get the facts right?
ACCUSER’S BROTHER: Yes.
--------------
MR. MESEREAU: Now, you've indicated the first time you ever discussed any alleged inappropriate touching by Michael Jackson was with Psychologist Stanley Katz, right?
ACCUSER’S BROTHER: Yes.
MR. MESEREAU: And you have admitted that you gave Stanley Katz a different description than you've given in this courtroom, right?
ACCUSER’S BROTHER: Yes.
MR. MESEREAU: In fact, you never mentioned the third event that you've described today to Stanley Katz?
Accuser’s Brother: Because I might have forgot about it.
MR. MESEREAU: No further questions.
(End of Excerpts)
Mr. Mesereau also showed jurors a video of Mr. Jackson befriending his accuser, and another of the boy's brother playing TV host for a glimpse at Mr. Jackson's Neverland ranch.
"Hi from Neverland, USA," the brother said on the second video. "I'm the host of the Neverland Channel."
Contrary to all appearances on the video, the younger boy said he felt tired, not excited, when he interviewed Mr. Jackson's elephant trainer and talked to children at Neverland's amusement park, and indicated that Mr. Jackson wasn't as close to his brother as the other video made it seem.
In a musically scored production that was apparently part of Mr. Jackson's personal video archives, the singer is seen with the accuser, then a ghostlike figure with little hair during the time he was undergoing chemotherapy.
Jurors saw the boy in a wheelchair being pushed by his brother. Mr. Jackson walks alongside with his umbrella, then walks with the boy to a tree where he spreads a blanket for them to sit on and look out over the lake at his Neverland ranch.
102 - Kode Indigo Kid
Michael Jackson trial is one of the cases that gives world an idea about the kind of
legal system USA has got "Pretty Stupid" for an example "OJ" trial, after the OJ trial i really think that any thing is possible in USA's legal system and if Michael Jackson is guilty there is posibility that he could be freed and also he can be sent to jail "anything is possible!" all he needs are bunch of good defense attorney maybe one OJ used
because the real decision is to be made by jury "members of the general public
whoose minds can be changed very easily not by some judge who has some real experince in this system".One who have enough money/power/public support wins
other one loses theese trials are not about is Michael Jackson guilty or not?
its about who has more "money/power/public support"
im from india and here in india our legal system is quiet slow and and few may fid it not good enough but sooner or later one reaches justice "Thanks you mahatma gandhi for our democratic system"
we all shod pray that there is justice at the end of the day.................
103 - sandra smallson
Ah! Gav is done on the stand. I learned that he is a liar, a more worldly 13 year old than Sneddon wants us to believe he was. A very rude and know-it-all boy. A vindictive creature who wants to get back at MJ for abandoning him. Its amazing how you can claim to be molested by a man and still want to be his friend and be devastated and angry when he changes his numbers and wants nothing to do with you.
The inconsistensies are too many to mention but it is safe to say, he evoked no sympathy at all. I found him confrontational and well rehearsed which only leads me to stick to my original point that MJ is being framed.
The boy lies even about little things it's ridiculous. When you have a witness trying to give a speech rather than answer the question asked, or trying to justify the non answer he is about to give you or trying sarcasm..you know you've got a rehearsed witness and a damn liar. Let the trial continue.
As an aside..Mesereau's cross examination skills is the reason little kids grow up wanting to be lawyers. The man is inspirational. This should have been televised and Mesereau's bit used in Law schools the world over. My love for trials is returning because of him though I shall still stick to being a solicitor because I just lack the patience that appearing in Court demands. I would fly off the handle in no time..might have slapped the arvizo kids several times...
104 - Eric Olsen
I'm right with you there, Sandra: my mouth would get me into nothing but trouble as a trial attorney. I was pre-law in college, but turned down another street and never went back (yet)
105 - SajjaD jackson
Michael jackson is Innocent!!
he is INNOCENT!!!!!
media wants his money!
^_^
sajjad_michael_jackson@hotmail.com/yahoo.com
106 - swingingpuss
As Bill Maher said "He might not be touching them but he is certainly dating them."
107 - Eric Olsen
exactly SP, I heard him say that too - great line and observation
108 - Tristan
Nobody KNOWS which way a jury will go.
Toss a coin---50-50~
I thought Scott Peterson would get off;
I thought Robert Blake was guilty as hell.......
and OJ ............!!!! heh heh
I keep wondering: if i WAS Scott Peterson--and was REALLY innocent---to be thrown in jail and then tried & convicted for the horrible killing of your wife and unborn child---then to be sentenced to death~~~ I'd probably actually go insane if that was the case.......what a true horror!
And what IS up with that testimony that never made it into the trial about Lacey walking in on a birglary in a home on her street that day..?????
Reasonable doubt IS reasonable doubt---and there was almost NO concrete evidence in the Petersen case---it was almost entirely circumstantial~~~
then to not only CONVICT the man of murdering his wife and unborn child---but to sentence him to DEATH---
on CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE ....????
There is something seriously wrong with our judicial system----
What exactly are we going to do 3 months after we have injected Scott Peterson with a lethal Injection and murdered him---then find out what REALLY happened and who REALLY murdered LACY ~~~ there IS no reversal of an EXECUTION.
The fact that we could possibly EXECUTE one single innocent human being is the only reason we need to abolish the death penalty.
ALL statistics PROVE beyond any doubt that the Death Sentence is NOT a deterrent in capital cases.
Almost every single murder is done in a state of "passion"---and in those states--an individual does NOT stop and ponder: "oh! if I do this I might face the death penalty"~~~~
It is NOT in place as a deterrent---
the reason it still exists is soley for REVENGE...............
Are we still such primitives that we need that as part of our "Justice System" ---- we should be embarrassed and mortified to admit that we are members of a society that has as a practice to show people that they should not "kill people" of KILLING PEOPLE!
That is insanity.
109 - Eric Olsen
Dawn and I were discussing this today, and I was explaining to her that the system is set up to protect the innocent at the expense of letting some of the guilty go free: the "reasonable doubt" thing. It does lead to some strange results.
I agree with you about the death penalty
110 - Acme
We see what we are capable of seeing. This trial isn't about the person, but about the ideas he represented. This trial is about culture and the views it allows.
Satisfied with the entertainment he provided, We never commented on those ideas. Because we never saw the value of those ideas, we now can't see the bigger picture and the steps taken to control our view of that bigger picture.
This case starts in '90 and continued in
'92. This case merely builds on the impression created then.
111 - Eric Olsen
um, so what are those ideas?
112 - DrPat
Billy, Gene is not my lover...?
113 - Eric Olsen
she's just a girl who says that I am a pedophile
114 - DrPat
...but the child is not my fun...
115 - Christopher Willard
Now that Johnny Cochrane isn't around Michael probably can't use the famed Condom Defense (aKa The "Glove" Defense)..."If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"
116 - Madspirit
Wow...I wouldn't let Sandra near a child either. I always say...err on the side of the safety of children. Where there's smoke...there's fire. The man's a fucking freak.
Madspirit
117 - Madspirit
I agree with Tristan about the death penalty. As long as we deal with barbaric behavior by being barbaric....we will remain...barbarians. We are right up there with countries like PRC...Iran...etc.
Madspirit
118 - Michael Linder
It's official. Debbie Rowe to take the stand on Thursday or Friday. The prosecution will try to get her on -- and off -- the stand a quickly as they can to limit defense cross-examination. But Tom Mesereau will do everything in his power to blacken her rep.
In trying to keep her from testifying, Mesereau threatened to play the entire 3-hour rebuttal video that was excerpted for Maury Povich. Talk about judicial blackmal, your honor!
Also, Jackson family lawyer Brian Oxman is off the case! An official filing will be made with the court in the morning.
119 - Eric Olsen
thanks Michael, appreciate your input
120 - Michael Linder
Tom Sneddon gets ready to wrap up his case. But how does it shape up compared to his opening statements? We take a look at the major points of the prosecution's contentions and give 'em a reality check -- and let you assess the possibility of reasonable doubt.
121 - brockman f
mike needs to go to jail for a little while he wouldn't want a grown
ass man sleeping with his son
122 - tom
"States Child Protection Agencies Collude with Judges to Defraud Federal Government" by Nev Moore http://www.sierratimes.com/02/10/18/ednm101802.htm
"National Organized Crime Operating in Child Protection Agenices" by Roger Brown
"The Falsification of Records"
http://www.liftingtheveil.org/falsification.htm
It is the RICO RACKATEERING SCAM ! Learn it !
http://www.familyrightsassociation.com/users/media/expose/expose4.pdf
123 - Eric Olsen
brockman, I am unclear on your statement: is it "grown-ass man" or "grown ass-man"?
124 - E. Hawkins
Did I hear correctly that the present accuser and his family lived in one room or did they mean a one bedroom apartment, I ask because the parents had to engage in sexual relations at times and as we all know, shut eyes are not always sleeping. Even so how can anyone think that kids today don't
know about sexual practices, my kids came home and told me things other children had said and done at six and seven. Let's be real here. The days of innocence left with Wally Beaver.
125 - Dave
michael jackson is a dirty disgusting perv who gets his kicks out of child molestation