From Yahoo News:
US hip-hop singer Lauryn Hill stunned leading members of the Roman Catholic Church when she accused them of moral corruption, exploitation and abuse from the stage during a Christmas concert at the Vatican.
Hill, 28, launched her diatribe in front of an audience of 7,500 guests at a packed Paul VI hall, used by Pope John Paul II for indoor public audiences.
"I'm not here to celebrate, like you, the birth of Christ, but to ask you why you are not in mourning for his death in this place," Hill said, reading from a prepared statement as she came on stage for her performance as part of a all-star gala concert.
"Holy God has witnessed the corruption of your leadership, of the exploitation and abuses which are the minimum that can be said for the clergy," she added, calling on the hierarchy to "repent".
Stunned hierarchy in the front row at Saturday night's concert included one of the most senior figures in the Church, Cardinal Camillo Ruini, who is head of the Italian bishops conference.
I don't know just what to think of this little display. On the one hand, she's certainly being rude. She was asked to come sing Christmas carols, not give a speech.
On the other hand, she's absolutely right. The whole church hierarchy has been very willful in not doing the right things for many long years. The chosen moral blindness of these supposed spiritual leaders has hurt a great many people.
Also, she's got the right audience. She addressed herself to just exactly the culpable people who badly need rebuking. If she's going to make a public display, these were just the people to make it to.
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Sandra Smallson
I'm appalled by Ms Hill's behaviour. She is no saint herself. This self righteous behaviour needs to be curtailed by people in this world. Ofcourse it is deplorable what some, I repeat, SOME priests seem to be doing to Altar boys etc. What I am sure is annoying to a lot of people is that nothing is being done to the pedophiles, the church in the eyes of many does not seem to be taking action. Well, the church is caught b/w a rock and a hard place. How can they preach forgiveness and judgment is for God, and then proceed not to forgive these priests and judge them?
Why exactly did Ms hill agree to perform for such an audience if she was so appalled by their behaviour? She could have refused to perform and read her statement at that point. I am not defending the behaviour of the priests and bishops but I do not think I am in any position to be throwing stones at anybody when I've got my own sins to worry about. Nobody ever knows what these priests are up to but they will answer to their God. If you go to mass, the fact that the priest might be a pedophile does not tarnish the sacred nature of the mass you have attended, it tarnishes the priest and the priest alone.
I think Lauryn Hill should not have attended the event at all if she had such strong views about the vatican and using that opportunity to attack the vatican is just daft. Is she even catholic?
2 - Eric Olsen
I bet she won't be asked back. This was certainly rude, but maybe they needed to hear it.
3 - ClubhouseCancer
Bravo Lauryn!
People who speak truth to power are always criticised, and always vindicated. It's just too bad she had to ruin the Christmas of the leaders of that organized crime syndicate.
Instead of giving one thought to those evil Cardinals and their feelings, why not keep a good thought for the thousands of victims of the depraved rapists they've supported and employed?
4 - Natalie Davis
Lauryn rules! Gotta wonder, though, why she took that particular gig. I guess this audience did need a hard dose of truth for a change.
5 - jadester
heheh. Man, i'd have liked to have seen the looks on their faces...
6 - Jonathan
Wow. That's amazing, Truly spectacular. Rude or not it's still pretty fucking cool.
7 - bhw
I think Hill was pretty damned balls-y! Saying it right there at the Vatican!
As for the first commenter's points about priests and forgiveness, the church is free to forgive its pedophile priests while they serve out their prison sentences. I don't think repeatedly sending the fox back into the hen house counts as forgiveness. Seems like it counts as willfully ignoring the law and the safety and well being of the children of your church.
8 - Sandra Smallson
I hope Hill is as "Ball-sy" in her own household. Somehow, I doubt it very much. As for the person who refers to the priests or the vatican as "organised crime"..what can anybody say to a person like you? Nothing!
9 - Eric Olsen
Based upon her previous statements here, I am surprised Sandra responded to this the way she did. Are you Catholic, Sandra?
10 - Sandra Smallson
Why are you surprised that I responded to this the way I did? From my previous comments, what did you think my response would be? Plus, what is it about my previous comments that makes you think I would respond the way you thought I would?:) Okay, when you are through with that(please, indulge me:) then, I will respond and answer your question:)
11 - Eric Olsen
Simply because you tend to be suspicious of authority, certainly authoritarians. That's about it.
12 - Sandra Smallson
Oh..ok. I don't know what to say to that actually:) I'll try and explain why I responded the way I did. I am Catholic. However, I dont see the vatican as "authority". So, the issue of my being suspicious of authority does not arise in this case, I dont think. Plus, I dont think I am necessarily suspicious of authority.
I see the vatican as the head of the Catholic church but authority to me comes from God. The Catholic church rules are in the Bible. These are rules that other christian denominations are supposed to follow. Ofcourse some have left for whatever reason and chosen to interprete the rules to suit their own purposes. A criticism of the Catholic church is that it applies those rules too strictly and makes no room for changing times. With all my sins I am sure I agree but those things are not an issue with me because if I say I am a christian and a catholic, these are the rules. No one is forcing me to be a catholic. If I don't like it, I leave it and find another faith. Like Madonna and her kaballah business..lol.
Catholicism is my faith. The Priests and Bishops that are abusing these children should be dealt with in the way in which other pedophiles should be dealt with. However, because I believe that my being a catholic has more to do with God than any Priest's personal life, I feel no need or desire to change faith. If I am not Catholic then I would rather be non-denominational and just float around cos I can't think of any other denomination that I would like to associate myself with.
Therefore, Ms Hill using an invitation to perform in Xmas celebrations to verbally attack the vatican on an issue that the vatican are well aware of and have been attacked from all angles because of, is simply an exhibition of a certain lack of etiquette and class. Her point would have been better made if she had refused the invitation on those grounds and made an announcement to that effect. Going there and making a complete fool of herself might mean she may not be in her right senses due to err..certain things which I am sure are not too hard to fathom. She was just being silly and at her age that sort of silliness is pitiful.
She has made no difference because she is certainly not the first to tell the vatican this, she is definitely not the most influential to tell them this, and she wont be the last to tell them this. They know they have to find a way to practise what they preach which is forgiveness but at the same time to be seen to be dealing with the matter to prevent it happening over and over again. Lauryn's outburst only served to make her look discourteous and a complete fool.
13 - Eric Olsen
Discourteous certainly, but not a fool in my view.
14 - ClubhouseCancer
Hundreds of priests raped thousands of children. These scumbags were protected by their criminal accomplices in the Vatican. And you save your vitriol for Lauryn Hill. Amazing.
Raped. Thousands. Of children.
This cannot be said enough by enough people.
The Catholic Church has proved itself evil to its bloated core. It is part of the Church culture for priests to rape children. Has been for as long as anypne can remember. American bishops are lucky they are not all in prison, as they should be, for assisting in the rape of children.
Not once in your post do you even condemn the church or the rape of children (read it again.)
Here's what you wrote:
They know they have to find a way to practise (sic) what they preach which is forgiveness but at the same time to be seen to be dealing with the matter...
I guess that about sums it up.
15 - Natalie Davis
Catholic as well. I see the Vatican and church leadership as organized crime, you betcha. I support the laity, not the bigoted pedophile-enablers in, as CC put it, clown hats. And the pope... don't get me started.
16 - Al Barger
Describing the Catholic leadership as "organized crime" seems to be really pushing the point a bit.
However, they have resisted for many years with all their might taking responsibility for stopping horrible child abuse in their ranks. Newspaper editorials or demonstrations and even legal actions seem to have minimal impact on this.
Ms. Hill might be considered rude or ingracious or whatever. OK. But hey- all have sinned and fell short of the glory of G-d.
On the other hand, she was directly addressing some of the specific guiltiest parties in the whole matter. They were sitting right in front of her.
At some point, maybe this is appropriate. I don't wish to denigrate the whole priesthood, but these top people have continually personally facilitated the ongoing abuses of thousands of children over many long years. Perhaps they should be getting the idea that they are not safe from rebuke and condemnation even from the pulpits of their own church- nay, ESPECIALLY from their own pulpits.
Until they have THOROUGHLY cleaned up their act, they deserve no peace or respite.
By rights, many of these people should be absolutely in prison as accessories. They're fortunate to get off this easily.
17 - Natalie Davis
Clubhouse Cancer wrote: "The Catholic Church has proved itself evil to its bloated core. It is part of the Church culture for priests to rape children. Has been for as long as anypne can remember. American bishops are lucky they are not all in prison, as they should be, for assisting in the rape of children."
Amen, CC, amen. Jail for the enablers. Jail for Baltimore's Cardinal William Keeler. I wrote him a letter saying exactly that -- he and his cohorts in crime and spiritual violence deserve to be behind bars. Courtesy? For them? As if. I have to pray hard for those more outraged over a concert and fucking etiquette than over the unconscionable sins of the Fathers.
18 - Sandra Smallson
Nothing any of you have said has made a blind bit of difference to my point. I stated several times that I feel these pedophiles must be dealt with and those who condone them have no excuse. However, why should that lead me to condemn the catholic church as a whole? That is a brand of racism. Serious stereotyping here. So, because an alarming amount of young black men are uneducated and criminals, ALL young black men are uneducated and criminals so they should be condemned as such? We all know not all pedophiles are priests so we must condemn the professions and the work places of those other pedophiles as well?
I dont understand how you go from being annoyed at the church for delaying "justice" on these priests, to saying the church should be condemned, it is organised crime and that is basically what it exists for and is the culture of the church? I hope you dont have such outbursts in public because sensible people might begin to think you are suffering from an unhealthy does of paranoia that can lead to all sorts of things. By the way, practise is a variant of practice, though it is chiefly British so I will forgive your ignorance.
Natalie if you believe all that CC says, and all that of the Catholic church, then you do yourself no favours by remaining a Catholic. If you cannot distinguish b/w the priests and the church for what it stands for and those innocent priests that do what they are there for, then you are better off not being catholic at all. How can you agree with CC's inability to distinguish and still say I am catholic? Then what sort of person can believe that thier church is organised crime with a culture to condone pedophiles and still remain a member of that church? Unbelievable!
19 - Sandra Smallson
I feel no need to condemn the Catholic church because there is nothing at all to condemn the church for. Just like Muslims cannot be condemned for those lunatics/fundamentalists who use the Islamic religion to carry out atrocious terrorist activities. I condemn all Pedophiles be them Priests or bank managers. I condemn anybody be them a bishop who allows a pedophile to stay in an environment where they will be able to commit further horrendous acts. I do not condemn the Catholic church in any way, shape or form.
Anybody who feels confident enough to condemn the entire catholic church and go on with this outdated rant of the deranged on how the Catholic church is organised crime, and the Pope is a member of the mafia, and the culture of the church..blah blah blah..we've heard it all before. You are not the first people to chant deranged rants about the catholic church, you wont be the last, you are saying nothing revolutionary.
Some Priests and Bishops have dismissed such Pedophiles. Some haven't. This is a matter of pedophiles and what some of the church clergy/leaders are doing about it which some say is ..Nothing at all, which everybody agrees is wrong..but to tell me to CONDEMN the Catholic church? What a deranged request!
20 - Sandra Smallson
I meant dose of paranoia not does...
21 - ClubhouseCancer
Sandra:
Your post says it all.
This poor sentence makes no sense at all:
"I condemn anybody be them a bishop who allows a pedophile to stay in an environment where they will be able to commit further horrendous acts. I do not condemn the Catholic church in any way, shape or form.
"Sic" means "thus," and is used to indicate that the quoted phrase appears exactly as quoted. I used it cuz I'm not British and I wanted to quote you accurately.
My objections to your post are not personal (note the lack of words like 'ignorance' and 'deranged'), but are intended to ask you to think more deeply about these issues. Blind adherance is at your own peril.
I never mentioned the mafia, and my charges are not "outdated," but rather fresher than today's headlines. I mean that the church is an organized crime organization because they have systems set up to allow child rape to happen and to be covered up. This is a heinous, soul-deadening crime, and these people (the bishops, remember?) committed it at the behest of the church.
Please use yourt brain and think about these things, please. Your post indicates either a lack of cohesive thought or a rush to put it together. No one is calling you a bad Catholic. Please think of the children who have been raped. There are thousands.
22 - Natalie Davis
I call myself Catholic because that is the religion in which I was born, raised, and educated. Officially, I left the church over a decade ago; only recently have I gone back to using the term to describe myself. I have many problems with the institution. Indeed, I do believe that its leaders are involved in organized crime. However, the people, IMO, are the true church, not the leaders. My criticism is aimed at the leaders and at the terribly flawed institution and its traditions. Much of Catholicism is good, many of the people are good, many of the priests are good. Yes, that needs to be said. But Hill's criticisms are valid and need to be said LOUDLY until the institution changes and puts Jesus' mandate over its leaders' vile quest for self-perpetuation at any price. The point was made that the leaders tend to be insulated. That being the case, perhaps Hill's unexpected outburst was just the thing to bring a little truth to these people.
Look, Sandra: NO INSULTS.
23 - Al Barger
Sandra, you shouldn't take Hill's comments as a condemnation of ALL Catholics, or the entire church. Take them in an "if the shoe fits" way- and it surely would fit many of the muckity-mucks of the organization sitting right there in front of her.
Again, remember that the overreaching "organized crime" label was NOT from Hill's remarks.
24 - jadester
it's not the church that is bad, it's (some of) the the people who run it.
And no-one's saying catholics should change faith/the catholic faith is evil, or at least i hope they aren't, as that is close to equivalent to what Islamists say about all other religions.
25 - Sandra Smallson
Al, I did not take what Hill said as a condemnation of the Catholic church as a whole..I took what CC said as a condemnation of the catholic church as a whole. CC, what gives you the right to tell me to look more closely and think more deeply about the church? Who are you supposed to be? You are just somebody with an opinion on the catholic church.
This is my opinion and because it does not agree with yours does not mean I have not looked deeply. I would rather be outright insulting than be patronising or condescending with poorly disguised subtlety.
Natalie, like someboday said.."If the shoe fits..." so, its not a matter of insults. If the shoe fits..one must call a spade a spade. People who go around pronouncing the Catholic church as an organised crime unit and breeding pedophiles should not be amazed if some may find their rants deranged. Does that mean that person is deranged? Oh, well..the utterings are definitely deranged. I make no apologies whatsoever.
Like someone said, its NOT the CHURCH that is BAD, its some of the people who run it. I can't imagine that somebody who proclaims to use his brain disputes such a thing. CC, there is no difference in me calling you deranged and ignorant to you telling me to use my brain and not blindly follow. Thereby, insinuating I am not using my brain and I just follow blindly. I just choose not to pussy foot around the insults.
As far as I am concerned, your posts indicate you are ignorant and your rants are mutterings that only people who are deranged can possibly say or understand. Think of the children who are raped? Ha! You really need to calm down. I am thinking of the children who are raped, but with that brain you advice I use. Posting nonsense about the Catholic church being organised crime and breeding a culture of Pedophiles does suggest that you, Clubhouse cancer, are not using YOUR brain.
I no longer have any interest in continuing this discussion with you CC,. Like I said, you are saying nothing new, or fresh. You deceive yourself if you think you are. So, its a complete waste of my time to argue with you in any attempt to try and make you see sense, that the church is not to be condemned but some of the people that run it might deserve condemnation. Its an outdated mob mentality that even Jesus himself cannot change.
Personally, I have lost interest, but one word of advice, why dont those of you that take my comments sometimes as insults, think deeply and maybe you might come to see them as characterisations instead. I don't think it is too far fetched to read CC's post on this matter and think him ignorant and perhaps deranged. As for you Natalie, I sent no insult you way. I simply found it unbelievable that you called yourself Catholic and agreed with CC. I still do but I have no interest in your justifications any longer.