File under cracker jurisprudence:
A judge in Indianapolis has forbidden two parents from exposing their nine year old son to their Wiccan religious beliefs. Indianapolis Star
As part of a custody ruling between the divorced parents, Cale J. Bradford, chief judge of the Marion Superior Court, forbade them from exposing their son to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals." Both parents are avowed Wiccans- but no Wicca for little Johnny.
From the Indianapolis Star:
The parents' Wiccan beliefs came to Bradford's attention in a confidential report prepared by the Domestic Relations Counseling Bureau, which provides recommendations to the court on child custody and visitation rights. Jones' son attends a local Catholic school."There is a discrepancy between Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones' lifestyle and the belief system adhered to by the parochial school. . . . Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones display little insight into the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages," the bureau said in its report.
Judge Bradford is obviously an idiot whose decree will almost certainly be shot down on appeal from both parents. Judges don't get to pick out your family's religious beliefs. (See: US Constitution, Amendment #1) Duh.
Besides that, though, this Domestic Relations Counseling Bureau logic may be even dumber. They're apparently actually arguing against exposing a child to multiple religious traditions. Don't want him having to deal with two conflicting ideas. Might confuse his little brain.
For starters, would the Wiccan stuff be cool with the DRCB if they stopped sending him to Catholic school? That way, he'd just be getting one set of belief programming. Also though, the boy apparently attends a Unitarian church. Those of us less enlightened than Judge Bradford and the DRCB might think that this active three way mix of belief systems would provide the young man an excellent rich background from which he could intelligently sort out his own beliefs.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - HW Saxton
Al,Where do the "Rastafarians" place on
your lists of Mainstream VS Illegitimate
Religions? Curious.
The Mormons rate with the Scientologists
in my book, but I live within spitting
distance of Utah.I have been overexposed
to their doctrine, so it's a kinda sorta
personal thang.
2 - Dave Nalle
How is Wicca not a mainstream religion? It's recognized for tax exemption by the IRS. What other qualification is there in the US? Plus I daresay there are more Wiccans than there are members of many Christian sects.
As for this judge, he's obviously very confused. If both parents are Wiccans and presumably one of them has custody of the child, why are the religious preferences of the school even relevant? If the parochial school doesn't like the child being a Wiccan they can expel him. There are other private schools - even parochial schools - which won't care.
Dave
3 - Al Barger
I definitely give Mormons the benefit of the doubt. They're not as old as some of the other groups, but they rate pretty high on the list for working and playing well with others. This definitely distinguishes them from the heavy handed Scientologists.
Rastafarians seem pretty cool, but I've never known any personally, so I have limited basis of knowledge.
Dave, the problem does not appear to be at all with the Catholic school. The board in question is some kind of consultant group to the court.
4 - adam
Al, I would include the current Republican Party, as hijacked by its Evangelical Talibans, under illegitimate belief systems.
5 - Bryan McKay
To simply lump Islam into the category of "Illegitimate BS" seems remarkably unfair. Certainly there are subgroups of any religion which would fit into that category. These groups, however, are generally in the minority and shouldn't serve to define an entire faith. The Nation of Islam, for example, has very little to do with the actual faith of Islam. Also, let's not forget that for an "illegitamate" belief system, Islam happens to be the world's second largest religion, and some experts predict that if it continues to grow at it's current rate, it will become the largest sometime this century.
6 - gonzo marx
good to see big Al showing what acceptance of personal Liberty is about
JuJu,whose feces Fertilize the World, is most Pleased...
http://gonzo-marx.blogspot.com
under Construction...but go ahead and say hello....i double dog dare ya!
Excelsior!
7 - Dave Nalle
Wiccan thread
>>Dave, the problem does not appear to be at all with the Catholic school. The board in question is some kind of consultant group to the court.<<
If the Catholic School didn't bring the issue up, who has standing to even bring this into court? Normally in this kind of idiocy it's the grandparents, but I see no mention of them in the article.
Dave
8 - RJ
While I don't personally view Wicca as a real religion, but instead more of a bizarre lifestyle, just who in the hell does this idiot judge think he is?
If I get married, have a kid, and want to instill in him/her the "strongly-held religious belief" that all life came from the Maytag repairman, and that the Universe is only 14 years old, who has the right to say that I can't? Answer: NO ONE!
9 - Leoniceno
Yep, idiot judge. Although I'm pleased that Quakers ended up on your 'Mainstream Belief System' list (go Quakers), I'm interested to hear the reasoning behind your placement of Islam on the 'Illegitimate BS' list.
10 - Cerulean
Once again, my work anticipates the news.
I know just how confusing the dichotomy between the Catholicism and Wicca can be :)
That's why I wrote my articles Catholicism vs. Witchcraft Parts I and II.
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/05/03/072724.php
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/05/19/181950.php
Judge Bradford, I dedicate these works to you.
11 - Bastarda
It has to be noted that one person's "Mainstream Belief System" is another's "Illegitimate BS". A belief system is a personal issue and whether you worship the Great Pumpkin, God, Allah, or the stale grilled cheese in your refrigerator, your beliefs are your own and are certainly neither "mainstream" or "illegitimate BS". Once an individual forces or, in this Judge's case, forbids someone from a certain belief system THAT is when the boundaries are crossed. Faith is a personal issue and should not be the responsibility of anyone except the individual. I question the motives of your decision to put Islam into your "Illegitimate BS" category, as it is one of the world's major religions. The Koran is quite an interesting and poetic read. I suggest you read it if you have not already. Fanaticism is prevalent in all belief systems and if you are basing your decision to include it on the "BS" list, then I would also include Christianity, Judaism and the like as they all include their own versions of fanatical nutcases.
12 - Al Barger
Now Adam, that's just silly. Even your hardcore James Dobson is no kind of Taliban. You may thoroughly disagree with the political agenda of some of these people, but they are not theocratic. They are not really that harsh. There's just no legitimate comparison between Pat Robertson and Iranian mullahs.
Fred Phelps would rate ranking in the illegitimate BS column with his God Hates Fags website and such, but he has no access or influence within the Christian community or with Republican leaders.
13 - Al Barger
Islam made the illegitimate BS list on the basis of not working and playing well with others. This is not necessarily a knock on the Quran. Further, someone more knowledgeable might break out some specific sects of Islam that are more sociable.
Bastarda, note that there are some Christian sects on the BS list. At that though, no Christian sect today is in a league with some of the Muslims for violent, anti-social foolishness. I'm putting the Jehovah's Witnesses in the BS list, but they're merely annoying. They're not commiting, funding, or tacitly supporting violence against non-believers.
14 - Nicolette Rivers
I enjoy lots of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. They always have really pretty pictures in the Watchtower of life after God pulls the curtain on it all -- happy smiley people hugging tigers.
15 - Al Barger
Well, perhaps I was being a little harsh in placing Jehovah's Witnesses on the BS list.
16 - RJ
Al:
I've met a few JWs, and while they tend to be annoying in their proselytizing, and are usually irrational peaceniks, they don't seem to do any real harm.
17 - Dave Nalle
JW's remind me why I'm glad I have a security gate.
Dave
18 - garrie keyman
What about having NO belief system: a nonbelief system? What category does that fall under?
Gee, I wonder what the self-appointed gods and godesses of Domestic Relations would do with us and our seven kids should we ever have the distinct misfortunue to fall under their radar.
Hmm.
On the upside, I supposed, we don't "confuse" our kids anymore, like all those years we spent attending Catholic Church (they wouldn't marry us) one week and the Moravian Church (they did marry us) the next (another BS you failed to categorize, along with Hinduism).
Hey, I thought letting kids see separate views was healthy. Isn't that what they call "balance?" To deny children balance should be what judges call into question; to deny balance is called indoctrination.
I'd say the Wiccan, Catholic & Unitarian combo was fine if they parents were okay with it. Yup. Choosing a child's religion isn't up to a judge, but there are certainly lots of people who do think it's up to them.
Try adoption caseworkers and employees of any department of CPS (Child Protective Services), for starters.
Oh yeah, and putting Islam under "Illegitimate BS?" I agree with those waiting to hear your reasoning on that one. Now, that just smacks of personal prejudice, to me.
Other religions to add to your list: Ba'Hai (not sure of spelling); Bretheran in Christ; Mennonite; Pagan; Branch Davidian, Moravian, Eastern Orthodox, Hinduism, and tens of dozens more around the world.
19 - gonzo marx
Mennonite?..hey, leave the Amish alone, they don't bother anyone
neither do most Pagan's or Hindu's
but then again, there is room for All under the shade of JuJu's, may his acreage of flesh be free form the mites of Intolerance, ears...
nuff said?
Excelsior1
20 - Draco
Ok I am going to just put this out there. My grammer is worse than a B-rated horror flick but who cares as long as I say what I want. First you make the comment that there are christianity religions listed in your illegitimate list. I was rasied a southern baptist and not one of those religions is considered christian.
Second, if you want to break down to two lists of religions still practiced today where are the following: Methodist, Luthern, Protestant, Celtic, Odinists, Voodoo, Satianists, Holy rollers, and many more religions that even I don't know or recall off the top of my head.
I think that if you want to go as far to seperate the religions for legitimate to illegitimate or non-pagan vs. pagan than you really need to do two things. 1. review your list of mainstream religions because at least five of them are considered pagan. 2. You really need to include all practiced religions not just what you can remember.
Growing up I have always heard one thing about wits and battles. I refuse to have a battles of wits with an unarmed person. I think you need to retract you statement and collect all your ammunition before you start firing the gun of mainstream vs. non-mainstream religions.
21 - RJ
"Second, if you want to break down to two lists of religions still practiced today where are the following: Methodist, Luthern, Protestant, Celtic, Odinists, Voodoo, Satianists, Holy rollers, and many more religions that even I don't know or recall off the top of my head."
I'm not a religious expert, but aren't all Christian faiths that AREN'T Catholic or EASTERN ORTHODOX considered Protestant?
Or, in the case of Scientology, a cult?
22 - bastarda
Al:
Islam made the list for not working and playing well with others?!?!?! If that be your reasoning, Christianity needs to be moved over there. Need I remind you of the Crusades, the thousand years of Pogroms and "ethnic cleansing" the Catholic Church instilled upon those who would not fold into its masses? NO religion works or plays well with others as they are constantly playing the timeless sandbox game of "My god can beat up your god".
As far as no Christian sects being involved in violent anti-social foolishness one can look to people like David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh, Randall Terry and the countless "bombers for god" who like to light up Planned Parenthoods in the name of good ol' Christianity. Using these examples, does Christianity also not fall into the "does not play well with others category?"
BUT!!! You cannot blame the actions of lunatics and their misguided faith on their religion as a whole. If you are condemning Islam based on those few who do not "play well with others", then you should also condemn those listed in the "Mainstream" category as well, as they harbor individuals with the same characteristics.
23 - RJ
But most Christians publicly and privately deplore the actions of people who, for example, bomb abortion clinics.
Muslims, however, seem to have a very difficult time denouncing attacks on America, Israel, Christians, Jews, Hindus, gays, and non-virgin women...
24 - Al Barger
Bastarda, you're all over the place here. McVeigh was not religious. David Koresh was not violent. The feds ran in on him all crazy with little or no provocation. Nor do I see countless "bombers for god" coming from the Christian side. It's more like a couple of lone losers, with no significant support network. They're rare, and heartily condemned by 99.9% of Christians.
Yes, the Catholic church has definitely had historic periods of not working and playing well with others. Far be it from me to whitewash the sins of cat lickers. However, post enlightenment influence has largely housetrained Christians sufficient to be accepted in civil society over the last few hundred years.
In practice and fairness, I'm judging the religions primarily by the practices of those adherents now living. Whatever historical ill behavior you may wish to emphasize by the Catholic church does not change the fact that the lion's share of pure wicked terrorist violence in the world today comes from Islamic extremists.
This does not mean that all Muslims or every sect is bad, but the whole worldwide terror and hatred reflect badly on all Muslims. Stuff like these stupid deadly Korangate riots looks bad on the family. It just does- whether that suits your political predispositions or not.
25 - Silas Kain
All of this in the name of religion? The judge legislated from the bench but the fundies will say that he was righteous in his decision. That a bunch of hooey.
Dobson has more in common with the Taliban than a preacher like Billy Graham. We're so busy fighting off the fire and brimstone that we've forgotten how to live in peaceful coexistence.