Well, it seems that today's disc golfer needs to carry enough discs to throw a different one for every shot in a round (that's 30 if you're a god and 60 if you're a spazz). That means a bag the size of a small suitcase - way too large to carry on a shoulder easily without becoming a hunchback. So the new bags have complex harness systems like the patented Proline QuadShock system which let you carry the huge bag on your back without collapsing under the weight - sort of like high tech backpacks that ride handily at waist level. They feature massive, padded shoulder straps and belts and fast-release clamps and insulated water bottle carriers and storage compartments and they can hold 30 or 40 discs with ease - each in its own individual protective sleeve. This is, of course, assuming that you don't mind looking like a complete dork while playing what used to be a nice simple sport. And they're not cheap. $50 or more for the bag itself, plus another $50 for the strap system. You could buy a couple of decent golf clubs for that price.
It gets worse. For some players carrying their massive arsenal of discs is too much to handle even with a harness - they've got to have wheels. As far as I can tell no one is commercially mass producing wheeled disc golf bags yet, but more and more players are following a simple design to make their own wheeled bag/carts which are depressingly reminiscent of wheeled golf bags from traditional golf and start with the same basic hardware.
The standard design begins with a relatively inexpensive steel Golf Bag Cart or a fancier aluminum model like the Bag Boy Express. To this you add the accessories which appeal to you the most. In most designs the essential addition is a wire bicycle-style basket to put various junk in. This is accompanied by either a rack to hold your disc bag, or in one design a series of layered folders to hold and display discs. Another popular addition is a cooler or a water jug or even a pony keg for refreshment needs.
There's one accessory you can add to your rolling basket carrying device which really spells the demise of all the things which make Disc Golf a sport - a folding chair or stool to sit on between shots. This really says everything about the decline of the game. First, it means that the competition and exercise aspects of the sport have lost all meaning for you. You don't even have enough motivation to stand up between shots. Second, it suggests that you expect to be playing in a group that moves at such a slow pace that you'll need a chair to sit in while you wait for other players to complete their endless putting rituals and celebratory dances. It means you're one of the guys in the group of 8 I get stuck behind who stretch a 90 minute round into 4 hours and never let anyone play through.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Jon Brakel
I sometimes wonder what the future of disc golf holds and if we will recognize it when it comes. However, I don't think chairs or carts are the problem. Most people use carts and chairs because after their fourth knee surgery the parts just don't move the way they used to. Also, it is not the group of 8 that will be using the chair. Chairs are used during tournaments when you have a four-some or five-some on every hole and you get to "the back-up hole". The backup hole is usually a more demanding hole and during a full tournament the tee will backup with a couple of groups waiting to tee off. That chair can keep your legs fresh during a day where you will play 36 to 54 holes of competitive disc golf...might even save you a throw or two over the course of the day. Will definately cut down on the amount of ice you need to use on your knees at the end of the day!
By the way, there are only 3 or 4 "professional" disc golf promotors and they are not making a decent living. Maybe someday there will be money in disc golf, but today there are 5 or 6 disc golfers that can earn a living playing disc golf.
Everything that I do for disc golf is as a volunteer. Maybe someday being a disc golf promotor or tournament director could lead to a career. Probably not in my working lifetime though!
Take care,
Jon Brakel
PDGA Illinois State Coordinator
Vice President Discontinuum Disc Golf Club
Tournament Director of the Illinois Open Series
2 - MysteryDJ_Motodom.com
Your comments are fitting for a sport that is one huge arm of the very large Frisbee galaxy that started in the 1970's on this earth. Call it minimalism, but that is one of the beauties of all Frisbee sports, its freedom. And at so little cost, no matter what is brought, so much can be enjoyed!
I herald the days that could be coming for disc golf. Like, "let the Tiger Woods of disc golf please come soon!" Because it IS coming. This version of golfing is too inexpensive in every way to not appeal to the masses. And hey, I've seen so many teens throw perfectly well throughout a professional disc golf course with one or two discs. God bless that! What are they out of pocket? Do they have $14? And in return they get to feel like Tiger Woods themsleves all day!? SO you see, it's coming in masses.. through disc golf.
And Tiger, um.. Mr Woods, if you're readin' this.. man, I've watched you since the news started about your talent. God Bless your Dad and Mom for getting you to such great guy status. I'm looking forward to your grand slam that is obviously coming up before you retire. Great job in 2005 majors!!!! 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 1st!! WOW. Hey why not help promote golf by also getting kids into programs of "The First Tee" for DISC golf? I watch BALL golf all the time on TV, because I am such a DISC golf enthusiast. The joy of golf transfers over man, no matter if it is with a DISC or a BALL!
But the other side of the coin, like I said, its even cheaper to get your Ya Ya's out with Frisbee play through simpler games of Catch and Throw, for example. Oh man, I would much rather pitch to another human being than at a disc golf basket! The basket can't catch and return my disc!
Oh, and every Frisbee instructor gets it, (and fearing I might be preaching just to the choir,) I'll leave you with this thought..
How could the world's first wave of Frisbee instructors win a Nobel Prize for Peace? Heck, while their at it, is there a Nobel Prize for "Better Health" that they can go for too?
! :-)
Frisbee instructors are teaching Frisbee to today's youth and uniting them in one idea for a better world -that the Frisbee is a fun, handy, low cost tool, which works perfectly well for promoting better health and yes, peace all across this planet. Like a vaccination for good.
See this for example.. www.motodom.com/Peace.htm about UNICEF giving nearly 10 Million youth in Iraq and Tsunami hit areas -enough Frisbee discs to give one for every two children (pairs!)and Frisbee PE lesson plans for instant classes of 20 children to use in their PE class. It is part of the larger ongoing donation called the UNICEF "School In A Box" instant school program for areas that get wiped out, but whose kids need to get right back into school, if for no other reason, then for trauma therapy.
No doubt, as I write this, Pakistan earthquaked schools are currently getting set up for such relief. I hope so anyways.
So next time you see a Frisbee going through the air in a park.. join in a momentary celebration of peace and freedom in your hearts and minds.
Let the rest of the world pause too and go, "Hmmmm. They have something there!"
Frisbee instructors go on to teach youth how to throw a Frisbee disc straight and far for better health and social responsibility.
Schools | go to www.motodom.com
Tiger | go to www.motodom.com
Cheers!
MysteryDJ_Motodom.com
3 - bhw
This is really a serious article about Frisbee golf? At first, I thought it was satire.
Men are always on a quest to try to make an official "sport" out of everything they used to do with their fraternity brothers.
Frisbee golf, the favorite time-wasting "sport" for supposedly grown men who don't have any actual athletic ability.
No offense, Dave, but I honestly can't take this game seriously. It's what college boys do around campus instead of going to class.
4 - Dave Nalle
>>This is really a serious article about Frisbee golf? At first, I thought it was satire. <<
It's serious and satire at the same time. It's a feast of ambivalence. The point is that Disc Golf is in that weird half-world where it's almost a serious sport, but still mostly just low pressure fun.
My reaction to the issues mentioned in the article is genuine, but at the same time I know they aren't that big a deal.
>>Frisbee golf, the favorite time-wasting "sport" for supposedly grown men who don't have any actual athletic ability.<<
See, there you're wrong. It does take some genuine athletic ability to play disc golf at the level people are playing it at these days. It's not a game just for stoned nerds and hippies anymore, though they still play.
Dave
5 - RogerMDillion
Is Disc Golf Still a Sport if Getting High Improves Your Game?
6 - Dave Nalle
Roger I recently had a discussion of just that. Getting high does indeed seem to have a significant positive impact on putting skill, though too much weed has a negative impact on driving. It will be a sign that the sport has become too serious when tournaments start to rule on Marijuana as a performance enhancing drug.
Dave
7 - Dave Nalle
>>I sometimes wonder what the future of disc golf holds and if we will recognize it when it comes. However, I don't think chairs or carts are the problem. Most people use carts and chairs because after their fourth knee surgery the parts just don't move the way they used to.<<
I didn't necessarily mean there wasn't a legitimate use for such things. But I think we're moving beyond that in a lot of cases.
>> Also, it is not the group of 8 that will be using the chair. Chairs are used during tournaments when you have a four-some or five-some on every hole and you get to "the back-up hole".<<
In informal play, it's the group of 8 which will have the chair, because they expect to be moving slowly from their own size.
>> The backup hole is usually a more demanding hole and during a full tournament the tee will backup with a couple of groups waiting to tee off. That chair can keep your legs fresh during a day where you will play 36 to 54 holes of competitive disc golf...might even save you a throw or two over the course of the day. Will definately cut down on the amount of ice you need to use on your knees at the end of the day! <<
You've got a point there, o defender of chairs, since I've given up playing anything but doubles tournaments and minis due to the exhausting nature of a 3+ round tournament. But for me - despite my advanced age - its more a function of heat and time consumption than my knees. In fact, my knees tend to stiffen up if I don't keep moving them.
>>By the way, there are only 3 or 4 "professional" disc golf promotors and they are not making a decent living. Maybe someday there will be money in disc golf, but today there are 5 or 6 disc golfers that can earn a living playing disc golf.<<
There are at least 3 or 4 professional promoters right here in Texas, not to mention a score of full time course pros. More people than you realize are making a living off of disc golf, I think.
>>Everything that I do for disc golf is as a volunteer. Maybe someday being a disc golf promotor or tournament director could lead to a career. Probably not in my working lifetime though!<<
It may just be that you're in a smaller market. Here in Texas it seems to be becoming awfully big business.
Dave
8 - Jharv
Great article. I can't say I agree with everything in the article, disc golf is still a very inexpensive sport, but I agree that chairs and carts look bad. You'll never see Tiger Woods sitting on his ass between holes.
BTW, I blogged this at http://disc-golf-daily-news.blogspot.com/
9 - Dave Nalle
Cool site, Jhary. I'll add it to my developing list of DG blogs. BTW, I noticed you had some info there on cheap disc golf baskets. You may have missed my article on the subject here on blogcritics. Check out Disc Golf Baskets On the Cheap - it's going to be followed up by another article on the basket I'm building from scratch, and on some of the others I'm trying out.
Dave
10 - Ryan
I really liked the article on this issue, and though I havnt noticed this really much here in Tulsa (and it could be because ive only played for a few years) I would really hate to see this sport come to something as commercial as golf. I just wrote an essay for my Comp I class about the effects of disc golf because of all the things that you just stated it is not anymore.
11 - Dave Nalle
Don't take my rantings too literally, Ryan. It's still a hell of a lot more relaxed and enjoyable than traditional golf and a lot less expensive as well, but there's no question that the sport is growing up.
I've also been impressed by how good the younger players are. Far better at an earlier age than I ever was. I think this probably comes from starting younger and playing more.
Dave
12 - MysteryDJ_Motodom.com
Hey Dave,
Thanks again for the great article. All keep up hope, for either way you like to shade the game, neither one mutually excludes the other shades.
Also, since my link was inept, here's the correct link to the stuff about this amazing UNICEF | School In A Box Program that has given millions of Flying discs and Frisbee PE Lesson Plans not to mention schools, to millions of kids in the middle east who have been hit by either war or natural disasters.
H.O.E.! (Heaven On Earth)
13 - Dave Nalle
Wow, the discs the kids are holding on the UNICEF site look like the old Wham-O '86' model short range approach disc/putter. I used to throw one for all my putts and short drives many many years ago.
Interesting program too.
Dave
14 - Lyle
Dave,
Your shorts are showing. You need to go back and do some research on Jon; he knows more about disc golf than you currently do. You see, he actually participates at a national level in the sport. He actually knows who the promotors are, even here in Texas, and he knows about how much money they make, since he is a promotor in Michigan.
As an acting officer of the HFDS I know many of the state promotors and I have a pretty good feel for how many are making a living at this. The answer would be none. Chris Himming comes the closest and he ain't doin' to well. Even Brian Mace doesn't make a real living at it (I will admit I don't know how much these guys make but I hear what they say about how tough it is). Yes John Houck does make a living at disc golf, but he isn't just a promotor, he's Innova's regional manager (more or less) and primarily moves plastic to local promotors.
As for the number of discs that players use, you didn't even take the time to ask players what they use. Most players use three or four disc types, Overstable, Stable, Approach, and Putter, and then carry two or three of each in case they lose one during a round. Shazam, you've got 12 discs in your bag and you didn't even try.
Comparing the casual disc golfer with the top guys in the sport (the handlful that make a living at it) is foolish. You would actually have to go out and watch them play to realize how naive your comments are.
One more point, go look up Ken Climo. Disc golf had Tiger Woods before ball golf did. Ken has won Worlds numerous times and dominated the sport through the 90s. And... he doesn't whine about it when things go wrong. Tiger could take some lessons.
Before you slam dance a "sport" or someone else who has a differenct view concerning that sport, you should know your facts. BTW - you want exercize... try speed golf.
15 - Dave Nalle
>>Your shorts are showing. You need to go back and do some research on Jon; he knows more about disc golf than you currently do. You see, he actually participates at a national level in the sport.<<
I never said anything against Jon. I appreciated his input.
>>He actually knows who the promotors are, even here in Texas, and he knows about how much money they make, since he is a promotor in Michigan. <<
I know a number of promoters here in Texas too and have for years. I've been playing disc golf for a quarter-century in Texas and playing competitively in tournaments for most of that time. I'm not exactly ignorant.
>>As an acting officer of the HFDS I know many of the state promotors and I have a pretty good feel for how many are making a living at this. The answer would be none. Chris Himming comes the closest and he ain't doin' to well. Even Brian Mace doesn't make a real living at it (I will admit I don't know how much these guys make but I hear what they say about how tough it is). Yes John Houck does make a living at disc golf, but he isn't just a promotor, he's Innova's regional manager (more or less) and primarily moves plastic to local promotors.<<
I think the problem here is our definition of a 'promoter'. I'll agree that none of the ones who make a living at it do nothing but promote disc golf, but there are a number who make a living at it between running tournaments, selling equipment and other promotion-like activities.
>>As for the number of discs that players use, you didn't even take the time to ask players what they use. <
And you know this because you're psychic or standing around while I talk to people? In fact I'm perfectly familiar with what most players carry in their bags.
>>Most players use three or four disc types, Overstable, Stable, Approach, and Putter, and then carry two or three of each in case they lose one during a round. Shazam, you've got 12 discs in your bag and you didn't even try. <<
Did you actually READ my article? That's almost exactly what I said word for word. So, as you said and I said earlier 12-15 discs in a bag. So why are they carrying bags that hold 30-40 discs? I mean, I own maybe 70 discs, but I don't feel a need to carry them all on the course.
>>Comparing the casual disc golfer with the top guys in the sport (the handlful that make a living at it) is foolish. You would actually have to go out and watch them play to realize how naive your comments are.<<
I didn't compare the casual disc golfer to the top pros. I was playing with pros at the tournament I took the photos at which are in the article. Again, you seem to think I'm some retard who played disc golf twice and thought he could write about it. I've been a course pro, I've sold discs for a living, I've played competitively and won tournaments, I've played courses all over the country, and I've been playing the game for 25 years. The fact that I've been unable to play 5 times a week since I had kids means I'm rusty but it doesn't mean I don't know the game.
>>One more point, go look up Ken Climo. Disc golf had Tiger Woods before ball golf did. Ken has won Worlds numerous times and dominated the sport through the 90s. And... he doesn't whine about it when things go wrong. Tiger could take some lessons.<<
Again, you're not reading well. I brought Ken up in the article.
>>Before you slam dance a "sport" or someone else who has a differenct view concerning that sport, you should know your facts.<<
Lyle, this was intended to be a 'light' article. It's satirical as well as semi-serious. Lighten up man.
>> BTW - you want exercize... try speed golf.<<
I love speed DG. Play it all the time.
Dave
16 - Bryan James
Disc Golf Promoters in Texas???
The ones who make a living at it are
Austins David Moody, but I think he has a real job on the side too.
DFW's Brian Mace, works side jobs as well
Chris Himing - Ran himself into debt so bad he had to get a job last year. He worked his way out of most of it and is now going back to full time Disc Golf Promoter.
Houstons's John "Gimp" Edwards - Gives as much back to the sport as he brings in. He is not a promoter to make a living. (although he is out of a job right now)
Austin's John Houck, the only person who has made a living off disc golf for a number of years. However he does make his living off selling discs to all the tournaments and clubs in this region.
There have been a few others that tried to do it, Billy West, and Mark Atwood come to mind. Even I thought about it and realized I can't pay the bills promoting and running disc golf tournaments.
D. Bryan James
PDGA #5380
Former Texas PDGA Coordinator
Tournament Director of the Carrollton Open 1997-2005
17 - Dave Nalle
I'll ask David Moody if he has a job on the side when I see him later this week. I know he keeps some livestock on the side.
I actually saw Billy for the first time in years recently. I remember when he was living off his disc-golf related earnings. I suspect he wasn't living terribly well.
I didn't mean to suggest in the article that a lot of people are making a fortune promoting disc golf, but there ARE people who are at least attempting it.
As with many of the things I mention in the article, I think disc golf is right on the borderline between the amateur and professional worlds. There are opportunities, and they are growing, so the time will come that we'll see more and more people living off their disc golf earnings.
Dave
18 - Mark Atwood
Hi Dave,
I'll go back and re-read your article more thoroughly when I'm done rolling in all my DG related cash. :)
All in all, from my cursory glance, a nice article written in the irreverant style I enjoy. And utilize, in my own column writing.
As Bryan said, I did try to make a go of it in a DG business as a promoter/merchant, starting in late '02 with my company Hill Country Flyers (still the coolest logo in DG). :)
I had a little extra cash at the time and thought if I was ever gonna do it, that was the time. I got a website, cranked up a few new tournaments, took over one traditional event, subbed for another long-running tourney, and essentially tried to eek out a modest living by offering tourney players a professionally run, quality event that gave them good bang for their buck and tried to offset costs with sponsorships, as well as line up fun things for players through sponsorship.
I wouldn't say that HCF was an abject failure, but the sport has simply not matured to the point where that sort of thing is viable...yet. (Oh, and will everyone please stop making assumptions about Chris Himing and whether or not he's broke or solvent based on rumors and assumptions? That's not a lot to ask, is it?)
Brian Mace does do okay, as does Chris, but both are far more involved than just regional tournaments. Both of these two guys are so intertwined in the sport even beyond their state, that its a constant grind. Moreso than I was able to deal with.
John Edwards is doing well with his regional series, and players seem to enjoy his events, although I wouldn't make any claims about how well he's doing financially. I'll leave that to him and to those who are being discussed.
Dave Moody runs a pro shop at Austin's busiest public course, which surely helps him, and has one of the nicest private (or otherwise) courses around at his ranch oustide of Bastrop.
You made a lot of comments about the onset of the maturity of the game in your article. What you are seeing (the "gimmickery" I believe you called it) is a natural symptom of where we're headed, not the absolute end brought about by the sport's growth.
Also, the organizational side of DG, the PDGA has suffered similar growing pains, but continues to be a force for the positive growth of our game.
Now, for the fun stuff...
One of those pics you used was of a friend of mine's merchandise. I'm sure that Kent Bray, the maker of FC Discarts would be happy to tell you that yes, in fact, someone has marketed ready made rolling carts, and they're quite good. Quality parts, attention to detail and an affordable price (I'm the proud owner of one with custom embroidery...an option available on his products), are some of the reasons why people love them. (And I doubt he'd appreciate the name of the link.)
Dave, its just another way for people to collect the toys of the game they love. Not to mention, the comfort for those of us of the over-40 crowd who don't enjoy lugging a bag around all weekend at a 4-round, 2-day event. As for my stool (which fits comfortably on my custom FC Discart), you can have it when you can pry it from underneath my cold, dead arse.
Just let the sport grow and go through what it has to go through. Enjoy what it is about it that first led you to it, and realize that in time, all things must grow, although the process can be painful, and undignified.
Thanks for reading...and for writing.
See ya on the course,
Mark Atwood
Hill Country Flyers
19 - Dave Nalle
Now you know, I'm in the over-40 crowd myself, but I still haven't succumbed to the need for a cart. I do understand why some have them, however. Remember the article was to a certain extent tongue-in-cheek.
I looked all over the web for a source for Disc Carts. Does Kent Bray have a website? Can you give me an address for it or something? I'd have liked to include a link with the article, but perhaps I'll do a followup.
Dave
20 - Joanie
disc golf resorts? Oh my.
21 - Dave Nalle
Yep, resorts. I know of two. There may be more. Check the book link above, or the in-text link in the reference to resorts to get info on one that sounds rather nice.
Dave
22 - Joanie
Sheesh. Will wonders never cease. As for those folks up there who are commenting about frisbees in Iraq and Afghanistan, frisbees were given to the kids of those countries by a group called Spirit of America. Our troops taught the kids how to use them. Amazingly, a frisbee can be used for more than recreation. You can use it to hold water and food, you can use it to dig, and you can effectively thump your little sister on the head with it. Not that I've done the latter.
23 - Dave Nalle
As someone who donated money to Spirit of America I appreciate the frisbee effort, but had sort of hoped they would do something a bit more substantive for the kids in Iraq.
Dave
24 - MysteryDJ_Motodom.com
Wow Joanie, you're on top of it! Seriously.
This site honorably mentions the incredibleSpirit of America donations. What I'm REALLY impressed with though, is that our host Dave, was in the mystery of it all, sufficiently enough ahead of time to have been a donor to the cause! Whew! Hats off to you, my friend. I only first heard the story, BRIEFLY on CNN -when the discs were being shipped out! Nowadays one can google "Frisbees in Iraq," and BAM! it comes up big time. The story was on 2 tons of Frisbees, and my math says that's 14,000 discs? But CNN never said that they were emblazoned with the word friendship in Arabic and English! They're way cool.
And, anyway this site also salutes the (out of body) effort by UNICEF which has touched 5,000,000+ kids in the last 4 years, in the Middle East, with a Frisbee and a Frisbee PE lesson plan for their schools. 5 mill and counting, not 10 mill that I had previously misstated in my enthusiasm.
In my humble opinion though, it seems a large door is open there, now. How can we follow this up somehow? Like Dave said, what if the men could have had the tools to really plant a bigger seed? Like I would guess, show the kids a 30 minute instructional Frisbee throwing DVD through laptops on top of the Humvees.. to instantly teach all the kids how to throw a Frisbee straight and far? And then hand them a one page lesson plan for all children to use in their neighborhoods, to celebrate peace with.. whenever, and wherever they can throw safely. Including creating a very functional Frisbee golf course! (Rather than a DISC golf course, and rather than nothing!) Who knows, maybe the men in uniform did do that!? And taught the kids Ultimate too. And today, the kids in Fallujah ROCK with a Frisbee!? It would seem plausible, since no city on the planet has ever been so infused with discs, and some lessons, especially with a great message like that! Wouldn't it be ironic if the city DOES become the root of some sort of future key peace movement?
Whoa, got a little stirred up there. "Is the mike on right now? We are live? Oh oh."
MysteryDJ_Motodom.com
25 - Dave Nalle
Actually, I read a story recently about the constitutional referendum where they shut down all the streets in Baghdad for a day so people could go vote safely. Kids went on the streets to play soccer and apparently there was at least one game of ultimate as well.
Perhaps frisbees carry with them the spirit of the peace movement of the 60s and spread it wherever they go.
Dave