Ok, America. I warned you over and over again. You didn't listen, you voted for him. When he completely and totally lied about why we went to war, you somehow defended that (2,000 dead!) with Clinton lying about the BJ. This is not a parallel. Clinton lied about he BJ because he was married. You would have lied too, unless you are stupid. Of course, your concern is that he did it in the first place. Well, no one has died as a result of that story. When DeLay got rebuked last year, DeLay responded by having the ethics committee kicked off of the ethics committee. Best part about that, it was his OWN party members he had removed. Ask Colorado Republican Joel Hefley about that. He got kicked off the GOP held ethics committee for reporting ethics problems with Republicans. When your own people are narking you out, you might be a bad person.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Silas Kain
Delicious pancakes? Like the Silver Dollar pancakes that we made using the recipe from our Betty Crocker Children's Cook Book? I figure if we use the word "dollar" more legislators would show up for breakfast.
27 - Anthony Grande
Silas, Bush is one of our greatest presidents and you are telling him to step down???
28 - Recovering Republican
Not like any of you care, but I am the one who has to go to bed tonight and, like every other night since 9/11, it will be alone, and I will cry myself to sleep. And his name was Greg, and I will never get over losing him. Can you tell me where Osama is?
29 - Silas Kain
I said I'd love it if he stepped down but noted that it might not be good for the country. His greatness may be measured by the amount of expectation we have for him.
30 - Silas Kain
My heart goes out to you, R.R. And, for the record, I do indeed care. May Greg rest in peace.
31 - Anthony Grande
."...can you tell me where Osama is."
In a cave, living miserably and crying himself to sleep repeating over and over, "Bush is not Clinton, Bush is not Clinton, Bush is not Clinton, Republicans are not Democrats, Bush and Republicans actually did something. Clinton let me get away with the U.S.S. Cole, Embassy Bombing in Kenya and the first World Trade Center, but Why did I have to mess with Bush??? I could have been so powerful if a Democrat was in office."
32 - Matthew T. Sussman
I last saw Osama on a grilled cheese sandwich.
33 - Silas Kain
Are you saying that you ate him, Mr. Sussman?
34 - RogerMDillon
So far, Bush has let Osama get away with 9/11, AG.
Libs will stop talking about Iraqi Oil when you stop talking about Clinton.
35 - Lono
Once again this dialogue has been hijacked by idealogues. Stay focused on the point, people: are we having pancakes or not? I sure like pancakes.
36 - patricia white
Excuse me...but, can anyone tell me one single thing Bush has done to benefit this country? Every idea he has ends in another mess for Congress to deal with. Any objective human being could see he was not interested in capturing bin Ladin...It was an excuse to accomplish his and daddy's dream... "get Saddam"...never mind, the consequences. Has the capture of Saddam changed anything? Hell, no! Did we eliminate the Taliban? Hell, no! Are we making progress in establishing democracy in Iraq? Hell, no! Is the economy showing healthy growth? Hell, no! Was his plan for improving Social Security a sound one? Hell, no! Has he made positive moves to improve homeland security? Hell, no! (Our borders are a welcome mat for terrorists)! It boggles my mind that this stupid, arrogant, uncaring, unqualified man has managed to get himself into a position whereby he could possibly be the downfall of this great nation. No, that can't be....he simply is not that smart. So, who is to blame...the Carlyle group? Karl Rove? Dick Cheney? Anyone willing to "suck up"? George Bush has the blood of 2,000+ young American men and women on his hands and the scoundrels who worked so hard to put him in the White House share in that loss. If he doesn't deserve to be impeached, then God help us for we are willing to accept the lowest!
37 - Anthony Grande
Patricia, how about the tax cuts??? And have we been attacked since 9/11??? How about No Child Left Behind???
That is only a couple of things. Now I want you to tell me something:
Can you name two things that Clinton did to benefit this country???
38 - Anthony Grande
I mean I can name a 100 things Clinton did to hurt this country, but I can't name two, no one thing that Clinton did to benefit this country.
39 - Anthony Grande
Roger, Bush has let Osama get away with 9/11???
Bush took away his headquarter, Afghanistan, where he fully able to train his terrorists.
Bush took away most of his power. Osama can no longer perform a terrorist attack.
Bush also confiscated his million and millions of dollars. Osama no longer has any financial backing and no longer needs a treasurer because he has no treasure.
Osama has lost credibility among Islamics. Osama, if he is even alive, can no longer go where he wants. He is hiding from the "infidels." Fellow Islamics realize that he doesn't have the guts to be a martyr.
--------
Roger, it makes you happy that we haven't caught Osama yet, doesn't it???
40 - Anthony Grande
All four of those things that I mentioned about Bush doing to Osama are things that Clinton wasn't capable of doing.
41 - patricia white
Tax cuts?...big deal...as he rapidly leads us into the biggest deficit this country has ever had. No Child Left Behind?? I have discussed this with many, many teachers...not one single teacher has had a positive thing to say about it. In fact, we don't even have the funds to support it! Two thngs Clinton did...led us into a thriving economy and left the country in great shape financially...which Bush managed to deplete quicker than a rich kid with a new inheritance. Assuming the attack on Afghanistan was responsible for Osama leaving there...and, what difference did that make? He is surely (if he is alive), calling the plays from wherever his dismal existance may be. Surely, you are not claiming we destroyed the Taliban...they are slowly, but surely, regaining their power in Afghanistan. IF Bush did confiscate millions and millions of Osama's dollars...someone has done a darn good job of replacing those dollars. It is quite obvious that the insurgency is not short on money...have you ever wondered if we are fighting Iran and Syria at the same time we are at war with Iraq...and probably Saudi Arabia and Pakistan..Bush has gotten us into a real Catch 22...and he deserves to be punished for it!
42 - Anthony Grande
Bush inherited a deficit that was on its way downhill.
My A.P. History has mostly good things to say about No Child Left Behind.
The tax cuts have helped our economy. People spend more money when they have more money.
And have we been attacked since 9/11??? Because you know we had 4 terrorist attacks when Clinton was in office. Not including the Waco incident.
43 - Lono
Regarding Anthony's comments:
Patricia, how about the tax cuts??? And have we been attacked since 9/11??? How about No Child Left Behind???
* it turns out the tax cuts look pretty idiotic right now. We are 380 billion in debt last I saw, and the president wants to go to Mars. We have to pay for a war, we have to pay Halliburton, and we have to fix the gulf coast.
re: No child left behind > I'll use Senator Kerry's words on that "I think No Child Left Behind is a great idea, we should fund it though"
No Child Left Behind has been a disaster for most schools because it was (surprise) an unfunded mandate.
This President has failed the American worker on EVERY single front. That is no small accomplishment. He is a horrible and greedy and imcompetent monster.
44 - Dave Nalle
>This President has failed the American worker on EVERY single front. That is no small accomplishment. He is a horrible and greedy and imcompetent monster.<
Every single front except for higher wages, lower taxes taken out of their paychecks, an economy pulled out of recession and less unemployment.
But yah, he hasn't managed to pass social security privatization, so he has failed them in at least one way.
Dave
45 - tommyd
People who outright defend Bush as an American "hero", like a few on this blog, need to get themselves to a doctor right away for a psychological evaluation and/or medication.
No you can't blame everything on Bush, but darn, his presence in the White House and the disastrous course this country is on, is a little more than coincidental.
Bush must go.
46 - patricia white
Anthony - Bush did NOT inherit a deficit. He inherited a nice, healthy surplus. Why is it that everytime a Republican is elected and then screws up, it is because of something the Democrats did before him. Responsible people stand up and admit they've made a mistake, apologize and then make an effort to do something about it. Not Bush, though...he has yet to admit that he has made atrocious mistakes, and the word sorry isn't in his vocabulary, albeit, I will have to admit his vocabulary is very limited - maybe he just hasn't learned the word sorry.
I don't know what your A.P. History is, but it is a well-known fact that the No Child Left Behind Act has only succeeded in creating more problems in our schools.
As for the tax cuts, I'm afraid it also included cuts in too many good programs. How can we justify a tax cut when our troops went to Iraq without adequate armor? Oh, now I remember---to quote Rumsfield - "You go to war with the army you have". Just absolutely stupid,unreasonable and shows a complete lack of concern for the safety of our troops. My grandson is in Mosul, and my son has bought him the equipment he was lacking, but not every soldier has that advantage, and that is just not fair!
I presume you mean we have not been attacked by terrorists on our homeland...One of those four you mentioned was not on our homeland...the USS Cole. After the first WTC incident, I have to agree with you that we should have become more security conscious. The Oklahoma City tragedy was commited by our very own home-grown neo-nazis, and I am glad McVeigh paid with his own life. Waco should never have happened, and I am sorry we stooped to that. How about Clinton and Reno sharing the blame for that one?
Lono - I say let the President go to Mars! Let's send him even before we get our current problems with NASA resolved (if ever).
Dave - Less unemployment? I don't think so! Maybe less than 1 year ago, but not less than when Bush took office. Just think of all the jobs created by Katrina, Rita and Wilma. That should help the stats. As for privatizing Social Security, it is another one of his ideas that convinced me he is completely "over the edge".
tommyd - Yes, that is quite a coincidence. And, true he has had plenty of advice on getting us where are...Colin Powell was the only honorable member of his cabinet, and I'm glad he got out of that corruption.
As you so succinctly put it, Bush must go!!!
47 - Anthony Grande
SO MUCH MISINFORMATION!!! AND LIES!!!
You guys win. I am leaving this thread and never coming back. I can't take it.
48 - uao
Way back, in a different era, a different age, a different world (I am referring to autumn 2000), I recall my hippie friends in the next apartment getting frantic about the chances of Bush defeating Gore.
"It'll be a disaster!" they told me. "Worse than your worst nightmares!"
Having a few years on them, I sought to reassure them.
"Don't worry about Bush. We survived his dad. Even Reagan. If he's elected, nothing is going to change..."
I was so confident in this, I cockily voted for Nader, since Gore was comfortably ahead in California.
5 years later, and I stand here, shocked and awed. A bankrupt country, $3 a gallon gas while Exxon posts $10 billion in profits, a war hatched by a cadre of evil incarnate to defend a pack of fairy tales, anti-Americanism running rampant around the world, in-your-face-cronyism, tax breaks for the rich and humiliation for the poor, a lower standard of living, my Social Security money contributions gone most likely forever, creepy fundamentalist kooks running around like they own the government, a depleted and rickety armed forces, pollution we haven't seen since the 70's, lies and more lies, crackdowns on personal liberties, FCC crackdowns on decency, a persident who makes decisions bases on what a little god-voice in his head tells him, arrogance hypocracy and cynicism, big business run amok, I can't even fathom the very real and very serious damage this administration has caused to our nation. Damage it will take generations to fix, if it ever is. And the thrills just keep on continuing, with an idictment, and saber rattling at Syria, and a head-in-the-sand approach to N. Korea, and no plan whatsoever for disaster recovery, the economy, poverty, health care, and the war itself.
I considered myself a moderate with a libertarian streak in 2000, one who actually pulled levers for Republicans on occasion.
I learned my lesson. Not only has this president earned my full and unwavering contempt, which stops just short of calling some of his actions treasonous, it has permenantly swayed me from voting for any Republican until the party who harbors this enemy of my state ceases their blind defense of him and calls him out for the fundamentalist oil scion he has always been.
A bj in the oval office doesn't seem very important at all now, in retrospect.
Impeachment? Where do I sign?
49 - patricia white
A great post! I wish I had written it. Now we know what Bush meant by "shock and awe"...as for me, I have been in that state since he made his "mission accomplished" announcement wearing his fly boy costume. That was the day I finally fully realized that we were dealing with a hopeless idiot.
Why can't the powers that be initiate impeachment proceedings - or why don't they??? This incompetent @*#&%&* is guilty of war crimes. Have we become such a nation of wimps that we won't do what is necessary to remove him from office? I am genuinely afraid for our country!
50 - Bennett
uao - Very well said! Damn it, them hippies got it right again... Heh!
51 - Dave Nalle
uao, do you watch the news or read a newspaper or have any source of input other than Daily Kos or some other leftist propaganda site? It's hard to tell because your comment reads like some sort of bizarre glimpse of a scary alternate reality.
>>5 years later, and I stand here, shocked and awed.<<
Maybe that explains your confusion on the facts.
>> A bankrupt country,<<
In what sense? Easily repayable debt with a strong economy is far from bankruptcy.
>> $3 a gallon gas while Exxon posts $10 billion in profits,<<
Are you familiar with basic math? If you make a 10% profit on your gas sales and the price of gas goes up by 100%, your 10% becomes twice as much actual money, so a $5 billion profit becomes a $10 billion profit overnight.
>> a war hatched by a cadre of evil incarnate to defend a pack of fairy tales,<<
Huh?
>> anti-Americanism running rampant around the world,<<
That's not exactly a new problem.
>>in-your-face-cronyism,<<
Much like Clinton pardonning every criminal democrat who asked at the end of his administration.
>> tax breaks for the rich<<
If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. The tax break was higher as a percentage for every group BUT the richest, and by a huge margin.
>> and humiliation for the poor, <<
Where does that come from?
>>a lower standard of living,<<
Actually, with the tax cut income easily outpaces inflation and the standard of living is up.
>> my Social Security money contributions gone most likely forever,<<
Except that this - unfortunately - has not happened. And wouldn't you trade your paltry SS contributions for a chance to have a decent retirement income? Any sane, non-brainwashed person would.
>> creepy fundamentalist kooks running around like they own the government,<<
Except that none of them are IN the government - at least not the executive branch. Perhaps they're just delusional.
>> a depleted and rickety armed forces, <<
Huh? Active warfare revitalizes the armed forces and spurs modernization and innovation, which we're already seeing as a result of Iraq.
>>pollution we haven't seen since the 70's,<<
Environmental restrictions are stronger than they have ever been. Were you ALIVE in the 70s? I was and I remember how bad the pollution was. There's no comparison. As for environmental regulation, Bush hasn't reversed a single major policy and has passed the Clean Skies act, which has a lot of positive stuff in it.
>> lies and more lies,<<
OMG we elected politicians again. We need to stop that.
>> crackdowns on personal liberties,<<
On paper in the Patriot Act, perhaps. Not much in practice.
>> FCC crackdowns on decency, <<
Ok, I'll give you that the FCC has been remarkably dim, but they don't exactly have a huge impact on day to day life.
>>a persident who makes decisions bases on what a little god-voice in his head tells him,<<
Or so your leftist leaders would have you believe.
>> arrogance hypocracy and cynicism,<<
OMG we elected politicians again. What are we going to do about that?
>> big business run amok,<<
Yeah, I was really upset when the bank took my children.
>> I can't even fathom the very real and very serious damage this administration has caused to our nation.<<
I can see why not, since you can't even identify it correctly.
>> Damage it will take generations to fix, if it ever is. <<
Generations of hamsters, perhaps.
>>And the thrills just keep on continuing, with an idictment, and saber rattling at Syria,<<
Yeah, I hate it when we threaten nations that actually DO have WMDs and regularly invade their neighbors.
>> and a head-in-the-sand approach to N. Korea,<<
We just had very successful multilateral talks with N. Korea and have worked out some basic agreements whcih ought to lead towards disarmament there.
>> and no plan whatsoever for disaster recovery,<<
Bush did just release a plan for dealing with epidemics, which may be the greatest threat we face. And Wilma was handled quite well - because it was dealt with on the state level as most disasters should be.
>> the economy,<<
You don't like Bush's plan which reversed the recession faster than any previous recession of the same scale.
>> poverty,<<
A strong economy and low unemployment will minimize poverty.
>> health care,<<
I'm all for healthcare reform - Bush appears to share that belief.
>> and the war itself.<<
Surprised you waited til the end for that one. I note you have no specific criticisms left.
Dave
52 - RogerMDillon
Don't forget that Libby was the attorney for Marc Rich. Keep fighting the left/right battle. It's what they want you to do.
53 - uao
I stand by my comments.
54 - patricia white
This post is SOOOO lacking in substance, it gives me the pukes...if it were not so late, I would address every one of your inane statements, but actually they are so unrealistic, it isn't worth it....If I had not read them with my very own eyes, I would not believe a person could be so .....so......so....stupid....
55 - Rob B
There is talk as if Bush was the only one stating that Saddam had WMD. Clinton was saying it years before Bush was. H. Clinton said it, Al Gore (inventor of the internet) said it. Kerry said it. And count them-23 other democrats said he had them. Selective memory at it's best at work here.
56 - Rob B
P White, "Responsible people stand up and admit they made a mistake, apologize and make an effort to do something about it" Like getting on national television, pointing your finger and saying it never happened. Then send your wife on to the morning shows and say it is a "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"....yea, right
57 - Cardinal47
Bush's chickens come home to roost:poll
Latest poll reported in Washington Post Oct 30 shows Bush administration is plummeting in public opinion. A combination of events are dereailing Bush's second term. Bush's chickens are coming home to roost. The indictment of Cheney's Chief of staff is just the tip of the iceberg. Combined with the Iraq debacle and the inept handling of Hurricane Katrina, the ethical issue is now posing major problems for Bush and his cronies
58 - patricia white
Yes, Rob, we all know Clinton went before the nation and lied. That seems to be the only answer anyone can come up with to defend Bush. Clinton is a sex addict...that is his reason for the Monica incident, and any man would lie about that. Yes, they are both liars, but Clinton's lies did not cause the deaths of over 2000 young Americans. The comparison is illogical.
59 - Anthony Grande
What has Bush ever lied about, Patricia??? Clinton is a liar, not Bush. You want to know something that defends Bush, besides the Monica scandal???:
How many laws have Bush or Rove ever broken???? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, NOTHING!!!
60 - MCH
"What has Bush ever lied about, Patricia?"
- Anthony Grande
Well, for starters, he told several lies about going AWOL from the Guards in '71 and '72.
GW has stated that he's "not exactly sure what I did at Dannelly AFB, but I recall going to some meetings." The truth is, he never showed up. Gen. William Turnispeed (Ret.), the commanding officer at Dannelly in 1972, to whom Bush was ordered to report to, is on record that GW "never reported in."
GW has also said the reason he wasn't flying at Dannelly AFB was because "they didn't have the same type of planes." The truth is he had actually been grounded from flying by then for skipping a mandatory physical.
www.awolbush.com
//yahoo.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/
61 - steve
did you miss the special where dan rather lost his job due to poor information? it seems as though you have.
If I could vote for bush again, I would. He should run 4 terms like FDR!!!
62 - RogerMDillon
Bush also has a DUI on his record, which is one more than zero.
63 - Dave Nalle
So, MCH - was he AWOL or a deserter? You seem not to be able to settle on one explanation.
I'm glad no one is expecting me to recall exactly where I was and who I was with 35 years ago. I'm not surprised that Bush might be wrong, and I certainly believe that the rather elderly Turnispeed could have faulty recollection of that time.
Dave
64 - steve
ya ya I know Roger...he also snorted up half of Peru, right? At least he wasnt a pothead like Clinton. Im just kidding. No leader has a record without some kind of blemish.
65 - RogerMDillon
Tell that to your comrade, AG. He is the one claiming that Bush never broke a law.
66 - patricia white
Anthony...welcome back. I thought you left us forever and ever. Two rather costly lies: His insistence that Iraq had WMDs...his piss poor excuse for taking us into this horrible war. Don't say it was a mistake, not a lie. He never had one iota of evidence of WMDs in Iraq. And then he had the unmitigated gall to announce in his State of the Union address that Iraq had purchased yellowcake from Niger...Joe Wilson had reported evidence contrary to that statement, but, Bush in his arrogance and ignorance, thought no one know the difference. Soooo, someone decided to "get" Joe Wilson by disclosing his wife's CIA status....and, according to the Grand Jury, it appears to be "Scooter". Do you actually think Bush's well documented lies have not done irreparable damage to America?
67 - MCH
Re comment #63 by Dave (I had other priorities during Desert Storm) Nalle;
Both, Nalle. He went AWOL for over 30 days, contstituting Desertion according to the UCMJ.
It seems that Turnispeed is not the only one with "faulty recollection," considering that of the 700 members stationed at Dannelly AFB in 1972 when Bush was ordered there, not one (zero, zip, notta) came forward to collect the $50,000 reward Texans For Truth offered for a witness to GW being there.
www.texansfortruth.com
Speaking of "not being able to settle on one explanation" Nalle, it's interesting how your story for not enlisting for the Gulf War changed from your original excuse of being "too old" to "having other priorities."
68 - Dave Nalle
Oddly enough, MCH, I was too old AND I had other priorities. And guess what, it doesn't bother me at all when you keep saying that I had other priorities, because there's no shame in it. We had just had a baby at the time the war broke out, I was past the age which they were actively recruiting, and as I've said before, if I'd volunteered for the war I wouldn't have been through training and deployed until after the war was over. Criticizing me for it just makes you look like an ass and somewhat ignorant. Then as now we had a volunteer military, and not volunteering doesn't invalidate my opinions much as you wish that it did - just as being in the military doesn't make your puerile opinions worth any more than they are.
Dave
69 - MCH
"...I was too old and had other priorities..."
- Dave Nalle
Ted Williams flew 38 combat missions in the Korean War when he was 33 years old (your same age during the Gulf War, Nalle) and the father of two children, in addition to losing two years of his major league baseball career.
Kind of puts your spurious excuse of being "too old and having other priorities" into perspective, Nalle; as well as diminishing your constant, bellicose chickenhawk sabre-rattling...
70 - Dave Nalle
I knew that, MCH. He was in the same unit as my Dad during WW2, btw. Unlike my Dad he remained in the reserves so he got called up for Korea.
But guess what, at the time of the Gulf War I wasn't in the reserves, had no military training or background, and had no reason or desire to serve. And I didn't have to, and there's no shame associated with it despite what you think. Wait, you HAVE the military background. Why didn't you reenlist for the second Iraq War. Were you chicken?
>>diminishing your constant, bellicose chickenhawk sabre-rattling...<<
I'd like you to point to at least one example of this, because it sure doesn't describe anything I've written. Supporting the people of Iraq in their efforts to rebuild is not the same as supporting the invasion.
Dave
71 - The Dude
What's the point of impeachment? I'm enjoying the fact that this cowboy from Texas continues to shoot himself in the foot. No WMDs (bam!). Miers (bam!). Scooter (bam!). Spy in the White House (bam!). FEMA under Homeland Security (bam, bam, bam!). Bushie, you're doing a heck of a job.
I can't wait til years from now, when ol' George is viewed as the worst president in American history. I'm just gonna laugh ....
A sorta related question -- since Scooter is going to jail, why isn't Robert Novaks his "cell mate"? Anyone know?
72 - Baronius
Mr. Dude, like several other posters here, you seem to be listing things as if the number of items will distract from the weakness of each one. How important do you think the Miers withdrawl will be in the long run? Some other failed nominations include John Tower (GHW Bush), Zoe Baird (Clinton), and the guy who was supposed to replace Tom Ridge at Homeland Security (GW Bush). They were all viewed as catastrophes at the time. They are future Trivial Pursuit stumpers, as is Miers.
Neither Scooter nor Novak has been found guilty of anything, but if they both are, how would that reflect badly on the President? Scooter isn't exactly a heartbeat away.
FYI, a few years ago a group of historians did one of those "rank the Presidents" surveys. They were rated on various categories, such as foreign policy. Bill Clinton came in last in moral leadership, just below Nixon.
73 - The Dude
You're right, Baronious, I shouldn't be distracted by the negative aspect of Bush's actions. But sorry, I can't seem to name anything positive about Bush. He just seems like such a fuck-up, at least for the past month or so.
I mean, I usually think there's something good about some person, but my God, how pathetic can he be?
Hope you can understand my pont of view. And if you can convinced me otherwise, please try your best. I mean it.
As for Scooter, you are right again, he's not a heartbeat away from Bush, he's just a member of the Bush administration.
But still, no one has answered my question -- why isn't Novak punished for releasing a name of a CIA agent, an act that even I knew was a crime, and I don't even care about the CIA? Does anyone know the answer?
74 - Nancy
With any luck, the CIA will see to it Novak slips on a bar of soap while standing at the head of the Exorcist staircase in Georgetown. Yeah, Novak is keeping his head reeeeeeeeeeeal low these days; I haven't even seen his pontifications lately in the W. Post, come to think of it. Interesting - maybe he's, uh, checking out one of those secret CIA prisons overseas?
75 - Silas Kain
The justice has been meted out, Nancy. Bob Novak has lost most of his credibility. His standings as a journalist are on the downslide as they should be. Jon Stewart was quite eloquent in the way he chastised the hosts of CNN's Crossfire a while back. Novak has oversold his importance as a conservative political commentator. His editorials are flawed, his stories based in lies and his ego has blinded him on what is best for America. I hope Tucker Carlson took a page from the Novak notebook because he seems to be slipping away from the rhetoric served up by the neocons these days.