What in the world is going on with our kids??? The following all occured in the past week, heck few days really:
Bemidji, Minn. - A high school student went on a shooting rampage on an Indian reservation Monday, killing his grandparents at their home and then seven people at his school, grinning and waving as he fired, authorities and witnesses said. The suspect apparently killed himself after exchanging gunfire with police.
It was the nation's worst school shooting since the Columbine High School massacre in Jefferson County in 1999, when 15 died, including the two gunmen.
Teen's kill list: Start with mom
White Lake Township, Mich. - His mother's name was at the top of his kill list.
After that, he named students, teachers, administrators and two police officers. A 10th name was scratched out. It didn't stop there: He had another list he labeled "maybe," and it had four classmates on it — three boys and one girl.
School "kill list" was a hoax (this one was at my little brothers school and the school we had discussed switching my oldest son to)
Aurora, Colo. - A 13-year-old African-American boy who was trying to "fit in" confessed to a hoax that prompted parents to pull their kids out of Laredo Middle School on Wednesday, officials said.
The boy, a Laredo seventh-grader, created two "kill lists," discovered Tuesday, that included a racial slur and threatened harm to roughly a dozen black students, police said. The suspect included his own name, said Kathleen Walsh, spokeswoman for Aurora police.
WTF???? What are we doing wrong as parents? As a community? As a society?
What happened to the cry, "It takes a village to raise a child?" Are these kids missing some sort of love or nurturing? Are the parental figures missing tell-tale signs? Or will we just never be able to see this type of thing coming?
I don't have the answers, I have far more questions than I can type right now. But I want to know, need to know, what are the schools doing to protect my kids from this? What is my community doing to protect my kids?
More importantly, what am I going to do protect my kids? I can't shield them from the harsh realities of life forever, but I can do something to try to at least alleviate some of the fears that I have and my kids have.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? Help me out here...I will take all the help I can get on this one.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Natalie
It seems to me at least part of the answer is that if US society wasn't saturated with guns, most of these kids would simply engage in a fantasy, then grow out of it. No blood would be spilt.
2 - Eric Berlin
I think there's many factors, but the easy availability of guns does play into it, Natalie.
Even if you hate Michael Moore's guts (and I don't), you must admit that Bowling for Columbine raises important issues that get largely ignored.
Politicians need to be held accountable, and need to stop looking for scapegoats.
Rap music? Please, spare me. Why don't we start with parenting your kids and looking out for them and hanging out with them often enough so that they don't become ticking raging-hormone time bombs?
That would help.
3 - Dave Nalle
The guns have nothing to do with the social pressures which are causing the kids mentioned in this article to feel oppressed and yearn for revenge against their parents, teachers and peers. They would feel that way whether there are guns in America or not.
Currently US gun laws do not allow kids in this age range easy access to guns, and there are severe legal penalties for parents who let kids get hold of guns and use them criminally.
Remember, that a Columbine a major part of their plan was to use bombs to cause mass devastation. They could have done that without the guns - well, if they'd been any good at making bombs anyway.
Dave
4 - Eric Berlin
Yes, there are always social pressures, Dave. But the easy availability of guns is what is turning some schools into killing zones.
A kid is far more likely to snag his father's pistol out of the closet than take on making a homemade bomb.
How many stories about kids blowing up schools have you read about lately? H
How many fatal shootings?
5 - Dave Nalle
Well, recently I've heard about one of each, actually. We had a local school bomber not long ago and then there's this recent school shooting case in Minnesota.
So, what kind of gun control is going to stop these kids from going berserk? Let's play it safe and just ban all private gun ownership. That should solve the problem, right?
Wrong. The pistol and shotgun Jeff Weise took to school were stolen from his grandfather who was a police officer, and therefore would still have had the weapons even if civilians were banned from owning them. So no help there.
Perhaps instead we should look at what's going on over in the UK, where they're considering reversing a 100 year tradition of extreme gun control because people are getting sick and tired of being killed by home invaders and would like a chance to defend themselves and survive.
What you may have failed to consider is how much worse things could be if we didn't have guns to defend ourselves and provide at least some deterrent to uncontrolled violence.
Dave
6 - Eric Berlin
I bet if you look at violent crime data in the US versus Western Europe and Canada, it's extraordinarily higher in the US.
I'm not saying it's all guns, but easy access (to kids and to violent criminals) isn't helping the problem any.
7 - Dave Nalle
Actually, property crime is lower per capita here and it's not heading up the way that it is in most of Europe. The main difference is that our crimes tend to end with a somewhat more extreme punctuation of violence, if you know what I mean. So instead of a lot of drunken wife beating we'll have a lot of drunken wife beating plus some drunken wife beater shooting which they don't have.
Dave
8 - alienboy
Dave, sorry mate but that is pants!
Every kid feels like killing his friends and family at times. Crumbs I feel that way about you sometimes, LOL!
But to say that the ridiculously easy access to weapons in the USA isn't a direct cause of these shootings is naive at best, or a standard argument deployed by people who work for or support the American weapons industry and the NRA.
The only reason I can see that you all like guns so much is your cowboy history; it's some weird cultural hangover from the bad old days when, yes, possibly everyone did need a gun.
Nowadays, it would seem like a sign of political maturity if the so called most powerful nation on earth was able to civilise itself and disarm.
Not all issues can be solved through the barrel of a gun.
9 - T-Square
How many kids live in homes with guns and DON'T go on shooting rampages? I would guess far, far more than do snap and lose it.
If that was truly the problem then I would bet more parents would remove guns from their houses in an effort to "save" their kids from this type of thing.
Look at the 3 kids in each of the posted links/situations:
Minnesota: Kid was shuffled between his grandparents, no steady parental figure. Was bullied and pickedon most of his life.
Michigan: Kid came from a single parent home. Was teased "incessantly" according to reports
Colorado: As far as I know, single parent home. Kid was trying to "fit in" after being teased and may have been trying to avoid an after-school fight by making the list as a distraction.
Nothing has been reported about guns in the home, outside of the Minnesota case. And in that case the grandfather was a police officer, guns would have been in that home no matter the laws n gun control.
What stands out is the teasing and the single parent factors.
Single parents, having been one myself, tend to have a lot of balls to juggle in running the household, keeping the kids on track and working. No, I am not saying that these kids parents were neglectful, I am saying that when the entire burden of raising a family and maintaining a household is on one person a kid may not feel he getting the attention he needs or desrves.
The guns are not the problem, but are sure as hell easier to blame than looking at ourselves.
10 - alienboy
Nobody is saying that the guns are the problem, that's missing the point.
The teasing and bullying goes on everywhere but the violent assaults on schools et cetera is way off the scale in the USA. That wouldn't be so if the weapons were not so readily available.
given that the vast majority of the US population is middle class and urbanised, why on earth do you even need weapons? And please don't say for self protection, that's too glib.
11 - Dave Nalle
Alienboy: "Nobody is saying that the guns are the problem, that's missing the point."
And earlier he said: "But to say that the ridiculously easy access to weapons in the USA isn't a direct cause of these shootings is naive at best"
Contradict yourself much? If guns are a direct cause of the shootings, then they are the problem, aren't they?
Well, of course they aren't. Guns can't cause anything and gun control won't stop these things from happening. Without the guns they'll learn to make bombs, or they'll poison the drinking fountain or they'll catch a teacher alone and beat her to death. Guns are just a tool. The problem is the kids and what made them sociopathic.
Dave
12 - T-Square
Exactly Dave. A gun is simple a means to an end here. No, we don;t hear nearly as much about school teachers being brutally beaten, but it happens far more than you think.
Kids on the playground beat the hell out of each other on a daily basis, but we as a society have become so use to it that its not even news unless someone dies and then its just a blurb on the 6pm broadcast.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people WITH guns.
13 - gonzo marx
actually bullets kill those people..but that's just splitting hairs
{8^)
full Disclosure here, gentle Readers..my paternal grandfather was a gunsmith from Holland , who fled to America just prior to Germany's invasion so he would not be forced into making guns for Nazi's...my Family has been gunsmiths for as long as there have been guns..and weaponsmiths for hundreds of years before that
that being said..."the Right of a well regulated militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" is a Quote from the Second Amendment, as near as i can remember it...
funny how many firearm enthusiasts and the NRA ALWAYS skip the "well regulated militia" part, eh?
we license our Driving as "a priveledge" NOT a Right...we Register our cars...hell, i even have a license for my dog for Bog's sake...
but weapons..bah...we can't even make certain that convicted felons don't have them..they buy them every day at gun shows, even wal-marts...depending on what State you are in
insanity...that coming from lil ole me..whom we all know is quite Insane
however you side on the issue of firearms, all seem to agree that children should NOT have access...and it IS ease of access that enables these disturbed kids to go off on these shooting sprees
but one of the above Commentators was quite correct...more american kids die from accidents involving firearms in the home than do on these school rampages
Parenting is the key...in a Society where adults are either pressured into spending far too much time making their Living to spend that time with their children..or are disinterested and lackadaisical in being involved with their own kids, and so have no clue into their Lives...
what can we expect besides the occaisional time bomb
the good news in all this is that it is MUCH less prevalent than the media would have us think...that's because it makes for more sensational copy, and thus a bigger slice of the news cycle, than the much larger statistical incidence of children accidentally killing themselves and each other with a firearem that was NOT safely secured...
be involved with your kids...safely lock your firearms away
nuff said?
Excelsior!
14 - Anna Lisa
Got to go with personal responsibility ... guns are not the problem; people are the problem. True, people have been buying too many guns motivating the market to respond with more and better product - causing the glut of firearms in our homes. But the kids are going nuts for other reasons and using the guns for what they are made for.
15 - gonzo marx
i agree with ya there Anna Lisa...but my point is that kids are kids..
ya don't let them play with rat poison do ya?..you teach them not to lick their fingers and stick them in a light socket while the switch is on...that it's bad to run over the neighbor's cat with their bicycles...etc..
what i am saying is that Parents need to be Parents..and that those that choose to own firearms need to be Responsible about locking them up safely...and being involved with their children's lives
by all accounts...those two simple steps will halp to avoid the vast majority of these sad Incidents...
know what i mean?
Excelsior!
16 - Anna Lisa
Gonzo - I agree completely.
17 - Dave Nalle
Scary, I agree with both Gonzo and Anna Lisa.
But here's the really good point from Gonzo:
>>the good news in all this is that it is MUCH less prevalent than the media would have us think...that's because it makes for more sensational copy, and thus a bigger slice of the news cycle, than the much larger statistical incidence of children accidentally killing themselves and each other with a firearem that was NOT safely secured...
<<
I was going to say this myself, but lost track of this thread. As far as I can tell there's been a fairly steady decline in overall gun violence in the US, and no more incedence of people going on shooting sprees now than ever before. What's changed is that with our nationwide media and instant access and the constant thirst for something to report on and blow out of proportion, incidents which might have made a minor note in local papers 30 years ago because they happened far away are suddenly national news instead and then worried to death by the bulldogs of the media. It's the same thing with all these child abductions. There are probably fewer child abductions today than a generation ago, but there's so much attention focused on every one of them now that it seems like they are much more common.
Dave
18 - Anna Lisa
It's my understanding also that increased national reporting is behind the impression of increased gun violence incidents. I haven't seen reports of decreasing gun violence, though. Does Dave have a good link on that?
19 - T-Square
Yes, it is all about parenting. But what am I to do about those few who just don't give a damn and don't do even the basics of parenting?
My kids come home and tell me about their friend at school who they bought lunch for because they had no lunch money cause their mom said they were eating too much.
Or the kid who my son gave his "old" gym shoes cause the other kids were teasing him about his shoes. This boy told my son that his mom spent her money on buying a dress for a party and told him he would just have to earn some new shoes somehow.
I can't parent everyone else's kids...I got three of my own to deal with.
You have to take a test to drive but the let anyone with reproductive organs be a parent. ***SHAKES HEAD***
20 - gonzo marx
perfect point T-Square
no easy answer there...all anyone can do is the best that they can
there are NO guarantees
complete safety is a fairy tale the scale of which dwarfs sant and the easter bunny
we do what we can, and hope for the best
has it ever been any different?
i think not...but i hope it can get better...otherwise i would pull my own head off and go bowling with it
hey Diogenes...got a Light?
Excelsior!
21 - Dave Nalle
How many links would you like, Anna Lisa? Not only is gun related crime down, but so are all other forms of violent crime. Here are three good links, but I can provide more. There are also statistics on this available from the FBI, the CDC and a number of other sources.
This site has a bunch of links to the most recent violent crime stats
Here's a good article based on the latest stats from the CDC on violent death, which includes a 2.9% decrease in firearm related deaths, which is part of a continuing trend.
And here's an article from the CDC on the really dramatic decline in weapons violations of all kind, including firearms in the last 10 years on high school campuses
In this last article I think it's very, very telling that the one stat that DID go up was the number of kids who aren't going to school out of concern for safety issues. So during a decade where all forms of school violence declined dramatically, the perception is that violence has actually gone up. Sounds like the media at work to me.
Dave
22 - Anna Lisa
Dave - good stuff thanks
23 - Anna Lisa
Hey T-Square - if you get the sense that your child's school environment actually is getting unusually negative you have the options of getting a transfer or of homeschooling.
But understand that it could be worse. You could be trying to raise a child in Somalia.
24 - T-Square
It's not the school, it's not the teachers, it's not the kids...it's their "parents".
I am perfectly happy with my kids schools.
But I am just one.
25 - Natalie
BTW, that Telegraph article about Britain reconsidering gun control is not representative of general views. I don't know of any surveys - the fact they haven't been done is reflective of the degree of consensus - but I think if you did you'd get 80 per cent plus agreement on gun control.
As for guns in US homes, what doesn't get reported is how often they are used not in dramatic public attacks but pathetic homne suicides.
When I was a journalist in the Australian bush, where guns are necessary for practical purposes (snakes, dying cattle etc) I used to report with great regularity: "A young male was yesterday found dead with a gunshot wound to the head... Police said there were no suspicious circumstances."