The Middle East Media Research Institute has translated a sermon aired on Qatar TV this past Friday. This is amazing:
We must know that [wife] beating is a punishment in Islamic religious law. No one should deny this because this was permitted by the Creator of Man, and because when you purchase an electric appliance or a car you get instructions - a catalogue, explaining how to use it. The Creator of Man has sent down this book [the Koran] in order to show Man which ways he must choose.
Ok, I will admit I haven't read the Koran, but apparently it says that beating your wife is permissible and even encouraged. And this cleric is comparing a woman to an electric appliance or a car, and the Koran as an owner's manual for a wife. I wonder if beating your car is permissible, and if insurance will cover the damage. He continues:
We shouldn't be ashamed before the nations of the world who are still in their days of ignorance, to admit that these [beatings] are part of our religious law. We must remind the ignorant from among the Islamic Nation who followed the [West], that those [westerners] acknowledge the wondrous nature of this verse. There are three types of women with whom life is impossible without beatings.
You're saying it's Ok to beat your wife, and I'm the ignorant one? I wonder how may types of women there are that don't require a beating?
In America six million women are beaten by their husbands every year. These are their own official statistics. 4000-6000 women die as a result of their husbands' beatings. London police, every year, answer 100,000 phone calls and complaints of attacks against wives. In France, their slogan is, "Beat the wife morning, noon and night, and don't ask her why – she knows the reason." But they use their media to blow this out of proportion. They blow what is happening in the Muslim countries out of proportion. They bring a woman from South-Eastern Asia with a swollen face and present her on TV, claiming this was done by a Muslim who attacked his wife. They forget that Islam is a religion that forbids beating the face even of beasts. It is forbidden to beat even a donkey on its face.
Hey, guess what? When men beat their women here, it's called assault and it is punishable by prison time, which will likely include some “salad tossing” for the offender. Well, at least women get the same protections as a donkey when it comes to beatings in the face.
The intelligent people in the [West] admit that a woman does not feel comfort and is not happy unless she's under a man who commands, forbids, controls, and leads. This is the nature of people according to Allah's creation. Allah has created woman, whether Muslim or infidel, so she is happy under a strong man who will protect her and lives with her. It is not surprising, then, that a French woman came before a judge in the land of false freedom and equality and said: "I don't want this husband." The judge asked her: "Why?" and she replied: "He didn't lead me, didn't oppress me, didn't castigate me, didn't talk to me violently, didn't say: Don’t do this, do that." The judge replied: "Don't [his actions] support those who call for equality between man and woman?" The infidel woman answered, "No, no, I don't want him to compete with me, I want a man who leads and rules me."
I think that Hillary Clinton is fairly intelligent. Let's ask her how she'd feel about Bill commanding, forbidding, controlling and leading her. She'd tear his nuts off if he tried that. If she hasn't already, that is. And as for the French woman? Hey, he's using a French woman as an example. Surrender is in her genes, it's not her fault.
This is the nature according to which Allah created people, but they contaminated and replaced it with licentiousness and evil. A woman there knows that she lost the battle, and was mislead in the worst way, and she became like gum that the husband chews and throws into the filthy garbage can.
Nice metaphor, er simile.
[The Koran says:] "and beat them." This verse is of a wondrous nature. There are three types of women with whom a man cannot live unless he carries a rod on his shoulder. The first type is a girl who was brought up this way. Her parents ask her to go to school and she doesn't – they beat her. "Eat" – "I don't want to" – they beat her. So she became accustomed to beatings, she was brought up that way. We pray Allah will help her husband later. He will only get along with her if he practices wife beating.
The second type is a woman who is condescending towards her husband and ignores him. With her, too, only a rod will help. The third type is a twisted woman who will not obey her husband unless he oppresses her, beats her, uses force against her, and overpowers her with his voice.
Ok, now we have the three types of women with whom life if impossible without beatings. What the hell is that? Being an American, it's hard to believe that this is still the predominant way of thinking in Muslim countries. It boggles the mind.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Eric Olsen
Thanks Evil, again, the bottom line is that Islam is in dire need of a Reformation, of admitting that the words of the prophet are confusing, contradictory and in need of interpretation, as is the Bible. And those words were written in a specific time and place, under a spcific moral code, and that code must be allowed to evolve as humanity does.
We interpret the Constitution and that was written only two+ centuries ago.
The subjugation of women, the conjoining of chuch and state, and the perceived static nature of dogma, and absolute exceptionalism are the foundations of Islam's failures, now with hundreds of years of proof against that failure.
2 - Douglas Mays
WOW, never really understood religion, except it seems a good excuse to kill.
This Islamic/Koran stuff I can't get a grip on at all. Woman beating? Send an army load of dykes on bikes that direction and beat a few guys asses. Like hamburger stuffed in their underwear...
I hate that shit...
peaceloveguidance
3 - Mac Diva
Considering that spousal abuse is of epidemic proportions in the United States, and probably always has been, this culture must be in need "in dire need of a Reformation," too. Furthermore, since rape is a much more significant problem in the U.S. than elsewhere else, maybe our culture is in need of even greater reformation.
Efforts to promote racism against Muslims/Arabs by claiming that problems that are cross-cultural are theirs alone are dishonest and pathetic. When the U.S. has solved the glaring problems of rape and spousal abuse, not to mention the nearly 30 percent gap between wages for men and women, then Americans can beat their drum. Until then, they need to clean up their own back yard.
4 - Mac Diva
Typo: Anywhere else.
I also meant to point out that this sermon, by one cleric, is being treated as if it represented all of Islam, when obviously it doesn't. Any interested party could easily post a sermon by someone on the religious Right that is equally offensive, but not representative of all of Christianity.
I am beginning to wonder if every thought in some people's heads has some kind of racial, ethnic, sexual preference or religious animus attached to it. One can get that impression from reading some Blogcritics. If they are not hating on one minority group, they're hating on another.
5 - Douglas Mays
Mac Diva,
I guess one thing to point out is that in the USA it is law that one can't go beating a woman (or anyone else). One can be sent to the big house for such crimes. the USA is way ahead of the game in that department....
peaceloveguidance
6 - Mac Diva
Muslim countries have laws against assault, too. And, as was long the practice in the U.S., those laws are ignored when people want to ignore them. Even today, there is a vestige of that in the U.S. Spousal abuse is a major problem among policemen. So, they are often sympathetic to the abuser, not the victim. Spousal abusers do not get prosecuted as often or as seriously as they should. This is the kind of complexity that occurs in reality, not the Americans good/Muslims bad sophistry of the entry above.
Nor does this piffle hold up when looked at from a comparative religion perspective. There is plenty in the Bible that has been interpreted to support male supremacy. To take Islam to task for the same thing while ignoring Christianity's role in oppressing women is ignorant, meanspirited, biased or all three.
7 - Evilwhiteguy
Leave to MD to completly miss the point and cry racism. I wish I could say I didn't see this coming, but I did. MD, your defense of Muslim law allowing for the beating of wives is pathetic at best and stupid at face value.
And it's not represented by all Islam? This guy's speech was on TV in Qatar. Television in Muslim countries is controlled by (guess who?) the government. This speech was pre-approved by the Muslim government there. If it weren't, it wouldn't have aired. Nothing that's not state-approved airs on television there. Comparing that to a speech by someone on the "religeious right" who has full rights to free speech in America is null and void. The speech I posted has full Muslim state-sponsored approval. Nothing like that exists here.
Are you even reading what I wrote? Spousal abuse is ILLEGAL here. Yes, it happens here, but it is condoned in Muslim countries. Wake up and smell the coffee. That's not racism, that's a fact. I didn't say wife-beating only happened in Muslim countries, I said it's only LEGAL AND ENCOURAGED there.
And here's another clue for you, since you don't seem to have any. Muslims are a religeous group, not a race, therefore racism agains Mulslims isn't possible. Muslims worldwide consist of any number of races, black, white, Arab, etc. So take your race-baiting elsewhere, it isn't going to fly on my post.
8 - Evilwhiteguy
And as for this:
"Nor does this piffle hold up when looked at from a comparative religion perspective. There is plenty in the Bible that has been interpreted to support male supremacy. To take Islam to task for the same thing while ignoring Christianity's role in oppressing women is ignorant, meanspirited, biased or all three. "
Sure, the Bible suppports male supremacy. That's how things were a few thousand years ago. But guess what? Christianity has progressed since the sixteenth century. See, there was this guy named Martin Luther who nailed a list of complaints up on his church's door back in 1517, which brought on the REFORMATION. Muslims have yet to experience this, since to do so would be to sign your own death warrant. As for your charges of being ignorant, meanspirited, biased, or all three, I submit to you that you qualify for all three.
9 - Mac Diva
You said:
Being an American, it's hard to believe that this is still the predominant way of thinking in Muslim countries. It boggles the mind.
Yet, you've offered not an iota of proof that wife beating is "still the predominant way of thinking in Muslim countries." Quite the opposite, you've taken one cleric's sermon and tried to convert it into a smear of millions of people all over the world.
Then, you ignore a world, and American history, replete with oppression of women. As if that ignorance is not enough, you now babble about the Reformation having something to do with gender equality. It did not. One would have a hard time fathoming a more silly claim. But, there is a more silly claim. That, somehow, this has something to do with freedom of speech. It does not. Obviously, someone does not know the definition of freedom of speech. The claim of the entry is that Muslim countries support wife beating. Again, a single speech from a single source in a single country proves nothing of the sort. Nor does the speechifying of a male supremacist cleric here or one there differ significantly. They are both supporters of oppressing women, just using different sources for rationalization.
The truth of the matter is easily grasped by reasonably bright people. Oppression of women is a problem worldwide. Religion is sometimes used as a tool to support male supremacy. The religion used for that purpose can be just about any -- Christian, Muslim, Jewish, animist, etc. To claim that only Muslims are oppressors of women is to lie and lie big.
Two weeks ago, I had to, at length, debunk the demented raving of a Right Winger trying to justify slavery. He revealed the same kind of failure to grasp what the issues are, lack of knowledge of history of any kind and jingoistic inclinations as evident in this entry.
As for the claim that dehumanizing Muslims is not the intent of the entry, it is laughable. Propaganda of this type serves no other purpose.
10 - bhw
Hey, according to this cleric's wife-beating criteria, I hit the trifecta! I'd be, like, the Hedda Nussbaum of Islam.
Allah is good.
11 - Douglas Mays
Mac Diva, OK, I just got back to blogcritics and saw your comment #6 responding to mine. Cool. All I'm trying to say is that I know nothing about any religious anything. Nor do I care to. It is all a fucked up deal. Anyone trying to tell me how to live can F.O. and D. I absorb good theories that might apply to a peaceful, healthy and successful life. But, don't mess with anything else in my life, or else...
Tapping into the faith in something bigger inside yourself is my deal. Be aware of the energy from all living things on this planet.
The violence against women is something in this world that really pisses me off. Any guy who would go and hit/violate a woman for any reason (there is no good reason unless she had a gun pointed at him or something) should get his ass kicked.
Then, there is the problem I had. Here in Seattle when a call is made to the police for domestic disturbance, someone has to go to jail. No questions asked. This aspect of law came about when a judge let a domestic abuser go, he then immediately went home to kill. He did. Judge made a bad judgement.
My problem was that my wife has severe bi-polar disability. Before we married she would have an occasional "episode" of screaming, breaking things, etc. Well, heck, the neighbors call the police. They show up. I go to jail. Simple, take the guy. Makes sense as a general rule. I am released the next day after it is figured out, no charges. They need the time to take a look at wife's rap sheet (bi-polar? You probably have a rap sheet...) and check on the circumstances (no hit marks, etc.). But hell, even a minute in jail sux.
I mean, I am so anti-violence against women it sux even being thought of as such for just a second. It is like I have a computer chip in my system that will never let me commit any sort of violence against any woman.
Wife is now on meds that control the problem quite well. No problems for years. She is not experiencing the pain caused by such a disorder. We are doing well as a married couple. Love, look to the core of the person...
Anyway, no matter what religion, violence (sexual violence included, be aware of coersive rape! Fucking some guy just to get rid of him!!! That will make me commit some sort of violence against a male!!!!!) against women is sick and must not exist in any culture.
peaceloveguidance
12 - Eric Olsen
We are all aware that there aren't ANY differences between Christianity and Islam, that there isn't a single doctrinal, practical, or cultural difference; that Islam, as practiced anywhere it has a say in govermental affairs, has yielded nothing but peace, prosperity, good relations with the non-Islamic neighbors, and a bounty of opportunity and freedom for women, non-Muslims, and Muslim reformers.
Every day of the motherfucking week, you hear one Christian, Jewish, Hindu or Buddhist religious figure after another deliver reasoned discourse on the pleasures and necessities of wife-beating, on the need to keep women uneducated, covered from head to toe, subservient, out of sight and under control.
And to say otherwise is racist, religionist, bigoted, blasphemous, and an abomination. Allah fucking rules.
13 - Evilwhiteguy
"you now babble about the Reformation having something to do with gender equality" - I never said any such thing.
"To claim that only Muslims are oppressors of women is to lie and lie big." - I never said anything like that either.
I find it pointless to try and reason with an unreasonable race-baiter who attributes things to me that I never wrote. It seems you also do that a lot to Al Barger, I saw him mention it elsewhere on the site.
Saying I said things I didn't discredits any point you might have had, if you actually had any.
14 - DJ 7
Neurotics build castles in the air and
psychotics live in them.MacDiva delivers
their newspapers.
15 - Douglas Mays
DJ7, ah shoot, MacDiva is alright. I wouldn't thrash on her.
peaceloveguidance
16 - Mac Diva
The best way not to have illogical, bigoted arguments shot down is not to post them. The premise of this entry -- a sermon by a single cleric shows wife beating is supported by all Muslims -- hasn't a leg to stand on, unless one supports the bigotry. If one does, nonsense such is this is to be praised. Actually, this entry is nothing more than the use of a falsehood to dehumanize Muslims. It is very much like the slavery is beneficial entry of a couple weeks ago, not providing any accurate information, but meant to incite hatred against a group of people. Not surprisingly, those who want that group of people, Muslims, to be hated support this kind of propaganda.
As I said before, Americans have one of the worse records of rape and domestic violence in the world. Instead of projecting onto other peoples, Americans need to clean up their own back yard.
17 - Douglas Mays
Thank you, Mac Diva. Well said. I'm with you 100% on your statement (#16).
peaceloveguidance
18 - Evilwhiteguy
There's nothing bigoted about my post, it is a verbatim quoting of a Muslim cleric. And how is directly quoting a cleric a falsehood?
I had nothing to do with the slavery post you keep referring to, I didn't even read it, but you're trying to make it sound like it was mine, it wasn't.
I don't want Muslims to be hated, but it's beneficial for people to see what exactly it is that they stand for. There's nothing bigoted (I see you've changed your card from racist to bigot now that you've been proven wrong again) about that.
Rape was not mentioned in my original post, and has nothing to do with this discussion.
And as I have said before, domestic violence is illegal here, and state-sponsored in Muslim countries. That's the difference.
I've got an idea. Why don't you move to Qatar for a few years and then report back to us on how you were treated there? Oh, and while you are there, try saying anything you post here in public and see where that gets you.
19 - Al Barger
You might say that the rantings of this one cleric do not represent the beliefs of all Muslims. Fair enough.
However, the Arab/Muslim world does have a very strong general reputation for being especially brutal to their women. I won't claim the anthropological expertise to make any informed judgment of how much those cultures deserve their bad reputation. It does, however, seem consistent with most of what things I have seen.
America does have higher rates of certain types of crime than some other countries. However, I doubt the factual basis of your claims that we have extraordinarily high incidence of crimes against women.
In short, I suspect that if I were a woman, I would be even more glad than I am that I live in America rather than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.
20 - Douglas Mays
Evilwhiteguy, OK, great, you answered a question for me to assist in making a judgement. "domestic violence is illegal here, and state sponsored in Muslim countries". You probably said that above, but I just did some speed reading on this thread.
With that knowledge that means that we would have a high reported violence against women rate here. You can report it! And get response. We probably lead the world in tackling this problem. No matter what, we would be the highest reported sex crime nation in the world. So in a Muslim country this shit goes on all the time unreported. No stats.
So anyway, I guess I will give Mac Diva some perspective on statistics. But I'm with you Mac, let us just start at home and totally clean this shit up.
peaceloveguidance, goddammit!!!
21 - Eric Olsen
Now I understand: this post should not exist because it may foster ill-will towards Islam - anywhere and everywhere the mentality expressed above exists and is n fact sanctioned by the state, that ill-will is deserved.
And, another point is now clarified: no one may speak on any issue where their own country is imperfect. Okay, time to shut down the site because there is nothing left to talk about. The US is perfect on zero issues, although I am unaware that any state, local or federal body condones violence against women, which strikes me as a rather significant step in the right direction.
And, Douglas is 100% correct about reporting: it would be interesting to see the statistics for every country in the world for actual incidents of violence and sexual assaults against women.
22 - SFC SKI
Eric to the above you should add, "and the convictions and penalties for thoses crimes" as well.
Not all Muslims support wife-beating, especially in America. Maybe that is because in America a wife-beater can face jail time, but in many countries where Islamic Law is the only rule of Law, it is more accepted.
Honor Killing to be the next topic?
23 - Mac Diva
And, an important point has been overlooked. The outfit supplying the interpretation of the sermon, the Middle East Research Institute, calls itself a source for Islamic news. But, in reality, it was founded by Israelis and takes a Zionist slant. Muslims are treated in a propagandistic, 'they are not really people' way. Some 'objective' source.
A favorite of people posting propaganda is not to use sources. Their second favorite thing is to use biased sources. If the source was not biased, and therefore suitable for the purposes of the blogger, I don't believe we would see it being cited.
24 - Evilwhiteguy
"A favorite of people posting propeganda is not to use sources."
You describe your own comment very well.
25 - Evilwhiteguy
From their website:
Founded in February 1998 to inform the debate over U.S. policy in the Middle East, MEMRI is an independent, nonpartisan, nonprofit, 501 (c)3 organization. MEMRI's headquarters is located in Washington, DC with branch offices in Berlin, London, Jerusalem, and Baghdad, and has a project active in Sweden. MEMRI research is translated to English, German, Hebrew, Italian, French, Spanish, and occasionally Turkish and Russian.