Date rape is no joke, but when you have millions and a signed waiver, who's going to prove it?
Girls Gone Wild creator and celebrity-glommer Joe Francis has apparently let his extended 15 minutes of fame go straight from his head to his groin.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - Punky
sorry, that was way too long...hope I made some good points though!
77 - Rob
It's funny reading all the comments. This guy became rich off of these videos. So who's buying them? If this wasn't making him money, he wouldn't be doing it. That's why he bailed out of his first venture. We are in the generation where noone likes to take ownership of anything, which is why we have labels on everything from video games to myspace. Frankly it gets tiresome. Unless he forged their names, blame the drunk girl. If she hadn't "gone wild", then she wouldn't be there on the video, and you wouldn't be paying for it making him even more rich.
78 - Mistress La Spliffe
Dave, next time you enjoy seeing the girls on those ten GGW vids you own, are you going to enjoy them more when you think about the likes of Szyszka, who were too drunk to look good on film while they complained about getting deflowered?
Are you the sort of really good guy who would never hurt a fly that gets off looking at 18 year old girls who *aren't* from a good family with parents are are still looking out for her best interests and personal safety, and who will usually be found at places where these horrific incidents occur?
Sluts get what sluts deserve? What do sluts deserve, Dave? A scumbag like Joe Francis? Maybe a venereal disease? A really good guy who would never hurt a fly like you getting some mileage out of videos of them being drunk retards? Tell us - a Joe Francis vid owner is evidently in the God-like position of telling us what, exactly, the world population of sluts deserves.
79 - P. Floyd
As my wife said, if your dumb enough to be around people like that, and you're dumb enough to be taken advantage of, and dumb enough to go places like a tour bus, what do you think is going to happen. If someone grabs you in an inapproprate way or forces you to do something, you can scream rape, date-rape or whatever right then and now, not 2 months after the fact. That my friends is truely for MONEY! And they know this guy has lots of it. I WILL SAY NOW AS A PARENT, I DON'T APPROVE OF WHAT THIS MAN DOES! But at the same time, these girls should know what they are getting themselves into with a person such as this.
80 - Lyle
Take away his money and fame, and he'd just be some other horn-dog scum bag that you girls would have nothing to do with had they tried the same thing.
81 - Hells Bells
Fifteen years ago, when I was an 18 year old girl who got drunk and did stupid things with my friends, NONE of us would have even contemplated doing what these girls do because there was still a HUGE taboo on girls having sex (and being labelled a slut) and/or behaving in a sexual manner. I'm not saying that girls weren't having sex, but to be inappropriate in such a public forum would not have happened. No matter how drunk we were, we knew that we would regret it BIG TIME the next morning.
Unfortunately, society has changed, sex is everywhere, being famous is everyone's goal, and American society is telling girls that they should give up their morals and self-respect for a chance at 15 seconds of fame.
I feel terrible for these girls - they are receiving very mixed messages, and are not always able to determine the appropriate way to behave (schools and parents tell them that they should be "good girls", their peers and strangers are cheering when they take their shirts off, and the most famous celebrities that they admire and want to become have produced or been "caught" in sex videos with no ill effects to their careers).
What's an 18 year old CHILD to think (do)?
82 - JustOneMan
I thinks this is the fruit of the seeds of the sexual revoltion of 25+ years ago....in addition todays society thinks highly of slutty girls..its big business - from music to clothing...parents are allowing their daughters to slut-up as early as 10yrs old...
So Francis is not "THE" problem but he is a symptom!
83 - Hells Bells
More of those "mixed messages" I was talking about...
As JustOneMan pointed out, parents are dressing their little pre-pubescent girls like sex objects....there are entire stores dedicated to decking out young children like porn stars.
I have a young girl, and I struggle to find decent clothes that don't make her look like she's out looking to turn tricks.
To the parents that buy the stuff.....it's not cute, it's trashy....what message are you trying to impart on your daughters? Why are you teaching them to be sex objects?
No wonder that when they are older, they think that it is ok to behave this way.
Protecting girls from predators like Francis begins a long time before they turn 18.
84 - Personal Responsibility
If you play in the dirt, you will get dirty. I can not imagine an individual so dumb(intoxicated or not) as to sign a waiver form without realizing you are entering a potentially bad situation. These girls that were supposedly "taken advantage of" were most assuredly thinking of how to use this situation to THEIR advantage. But they found out the hard way that the sheep seldom, if ever, outsmarts the fox. Next time, steer clear of the guys with the cameras and stay with your friends. A little personal responsibility goes a long way... Play with a shark and you WILL be bitten.(Yes I love analogies)
85 - Martin Lav
"is it a girls responsibility not to have sex with a guy when shes drunk, or the guys responsibilty not to have sex with a girl when shes drunk... come on people, seriously"
This sums up the problem with our culture. IT IS BOTH, but you as a man have the last say and YOU SHOULD JUST SAY NO.
The men and our country have been raised by too many women and they don't know how to make boys into men.
My Grandfather and Dad would kick the shit out of me if I did anything close to what this guy FranSIS did/does.
Where is the MANHOOD in doing a drunk girl. It's just not right. PERIOD.
86 - Faceless
This is fucking sick. I don't care if the girls get themselves drunk, when that virgin girl said to stop, he should have stopped. He's fucking disgusting, and sounds kind of psycho too.
I also don't think it's fair at all that he films these drunk girls. Yes, they're drunk, but he takes way too much advantage of that and makes money off of it. If they did it without being drunk or stoned or whatever then fine, that's their choice, but most of them are.
87 - theroadoflife
What older (than 18-21) adult in this life has not come to regret an action he/she did as a youth? Unfortunately, experience is the true teacher of us all. In youth,words rarely have real meaning until we have experienced the event first hand.
If hindsight could have been foresight instead, the majority of us would be far better off, with possibly nothing to regret. Just because a person turns 18 doesn't mean that persons mental capacity for sound judgement istantly arrives with ones' birthday into "legal" adulthood.
Youth is just that--young people in body and mind, inexperienced, waiting to enter the adult world to "live life fully and find out what it's all about about." How sad that for some, the events they choose to partake in can destroy them. The supposed 'lucky ones' get to live a long life to relive their moments of bad judgement and hopefully learn a lesson from such, while the unlucky ones die from it at the time.
While I also agree with the concept that we should be responsible for our own actions. It is hard to internalize it when we constantly read of reduced sentences for criminals, who having committed horrendous crimes, get lighter sentences, or even get off because of defenses based on the inability to make correct judgment calls. Some such defenses are based on childhood abuse: driven to drugs and alcohol because of sexual abuse as a child, taught violence by being beaten when young, a lifetime of mental illness, an addict who could not control his/her "physical addiction" etc. How about the "twinkie defense" that got the murderer off...borderline diabetic, he had eaten too many sugary items (including the Twinkies) all day and they clouded his ability to think normally so they found him not guilty of murder--not even involuntary manslaughter. And yet, it is adults that serve on these juries.
What kind of responsibility in judgement can we expect from our children when the backbone of our country--the justice system--lets them off for things like this?
88 - Victor Plenty
Clothing cannot make anyone a sex object. No healthy adult will see children as sex objects, regardless of clothing, makeup, hairstyle, or any other shallow excuse for abuse.
Our problem is that our society suffers from a severe shortage of healthy adults. Our culture is nowhere near maturity in our perceptions of human sexuality. Repeating asinine claims, like saying men and boys can't be expected to control themselves if they see a female's skin, only proves the persistent idiotic adolescence of our cultural values.
If our culture was mature and healthy, sexual liberation would pose no danger to girls or women. Clearly this is not yet the case, and intelligent parents face a tough balancing act. How can we teach girls to stay safe in an ocean of male stupidity, without teaching girls to be ashamed of their bodies?
If I had daughters, I'd want them in karate class by age 5, advanced self-defense training by age 10, and Krav Maga by age 15.
And I would teach them to avoid, like a particularly ugly and foul-smelling plague, at least half the people who have commented on this article.
89 - Monty
I wonder, if all these guys who are saying these girls deserve it cuz they get on a bus against better judgement, might think differently if....
You go out w/some friends, get drunk, meet some other girls, they invite you to check out their big screen plasma w/satelite dish so you can check out the game, but when you get there some guy on the bus jumps you f***s you in the a**. Did you deserve it? Shouldnt you have know better?
You hoary assed slut!
It is not ok to rape someone-EVER!
90 - spud
Joe Francis...just a another fine product from the hallowed halls of USC.
91 - QuitYerWhining
I would like to say that Punky has probably stated things the best and she is a credit to her gender. We all make decisions and we all suffer the rewards and/or consequences. No need to blame everyone else if it goes the opposite of what we had intended.
Oh, and Punky, this side note: what you did on spring break (got on the stage and flashed your tits) is something done everyday by girls going to Amateur Nights across the country - or posing for their boyfriends camera, or camming on Anywebcam.com (to name just one of many) - so no need to beat yourself up over it. Not to be rude or unappreciative (even though I didn't have the pleasure of witnessing it), but seeing boobs are not really that shocking anymore. The internet is full of them.
You go girl. Being wild and crazy is good everynowandthen - especially when you can blame it on youth & inexperience! lol Good to hear from someone who's been there and sort of almost done that.
Signed,
I'll go back to oinking now.....
92 - Lady Dragonfyre
Bottom line we guys have to start learning to use our real brain and not the one that is in our crotch. We need to be the human beings (homo sapiens note the definition means: wise, intelligent) that we are rather than dogs, cats, rabbits or the pigs that some folks act like.
Well said. Likewise, young women have to start valuing the size of their brains more than the size of their boobs.
It seems in style these days for young women to be inane, empty-headed, and completely helpless. The media and other venues only foster this. I don't know whether the media only reflects this new "style" or if the new "style" is only a reflection of the media. I suspect that the two continually bounce off each other, causing this disease to spread exponentially.
93 - QuitYerWhining
ok......you know with the much more serious (than drunk teenagers away from home trying to prove how kewl they are)things going on in our unstable world today - might I offer this bit of comic relief:
A SHOCKING new video from Girls Gone Wild!
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2753127
94 - Martin Lav
"Society seems to have taught young women that their value is based on their level of attractiveness and how desirable they are to men. Is it any surprise they (including my "former self") act this way? We are all to blame here."
Absolutely true Punky.
We love to humiliate and be humilidated.
95 - Sarahhh
Some of these comments make me very happy, because I'm seeing that there are plenty of men and women who have a problem with this and how women are viewed in our society.
I used to feel the need to wear push up bras with low cut tops, it's ridiculous. I hated feeling like I had to wear them to get a man's attention. I hate feeling like I have to be anything less than I am to interest a guy.
Anywaysss, it's nice to see that people DO realize there's an issue with it.
Joe Francis is wayyy out of line.
96 - Karl Chase
These little whores want pity when they get drunk and get laid and later regret it. Screw that. If he gets a bit himself so be it, the girls went there wanting more than the drunken girls just kissing thier girl friends or showing thier boobd, they expected more and go twhat they deserved. Trashy lil whores need to come to Austin.
97 - Karl Chase
I have see guys charged with rape for un consensual sex because the girl was drunk, but so was he. She knew not what she was doing and neither did he, thats not fair.
98 - Victor Plenty
Calling women "whores" reveals a fearful man. Any man who does this is clearly afraid of women. He attempts to hide his fear by demeaning women and insulting them, hoping it will him look big, tough, and strong.
Sadly, this pathetic tactic only serves to highlight a man's smallness, his insecurity, and his weakness.
99 - Karl Chase
Who is this slut Dawn Olson?
100 - Karl Chase
Victor you know not of what you speak about. I fear no woman or man. But women who put it out just because they are drunk and not called nice things. They knew going into getting drunk that something might happen. It's been all over the news about date rape drugs and all the stuff happening these days. A girl needs to have people with her to help her keep her judgement, and if she dismisses them then she gets whats comming to her.
101 - Victor Plenty
You are dripping with fear, Karl Chase. You know it, and you will always know it.
This is the curse you have laid upon yourself. Meaningless trash talk on the Internet will never free you from it.
102 - Bliffle
All America awaits the "Dawn Gone Wild" video.
103 - Victor Plenty
Is that the one where Joe Francis gets spayed with a rusty spork?
104 - nugget
Karl Chase is an idiot. Molded rebuttals with gross immorality as the adhesive ingredient are always too easy to see through. Keep lying to yourself Karl. Morality and justice are very real.
105 - Purple Tigress
From the comments there seems to be a continuing prejudice against women who get drunk along the lines of if she was drunk she was asking for it.
If the woman said no and was able to say no, then it should be considered rape. If she was so intoxicated that she could not say no, then she was also raped.
Alcohol is a drug that has been used for date rape and has been condoned as such with a wink and a snicker.
What other crime is considered the victim's fault if the victim was drunk? If a person is drunk and that person is robbed by people who helped get him drunk, the crime would still be robbery. If a person was drunk and that led him into circumstances where he was murdered, then it would still be a crime and there would be less excusing of the behavior of the murderer.
Conversely, if a person is drunk and kills another person while driving the driver is still responsible as the cause of a crime. A drunk person is responsible for actions that harm or are detrimental to the public welfare.
The whole girls gone wild is basically the exploitation of women and an indication of the difference between the status of women and men.
Some people do not believe in drinking and this, just as Mel Gibson's current woes, would make a strong case to support their cause.
106 - Martin Lav
It is not an manly or honorably thing to have sex, consentual or not, with a woman that is obviously drunk. While technically or legally protected, it just isn't right. Period.
107 - Pam
I think a bunch of college girls should get together and gang up on the ugly Joe Francis. His face is beyond homely. Anyway, they should shove a giant black dildo up his stinking asshole and make sure it gets onto the Internet.
108 - joe
Bride burning, women for sale from Asia, children sold from devastated lands, thank Allah-Buddha-Christ, all we have to worry is girls getting drunk and showing their boobs.
Soon I will be a Pop of a little girl, hope I can teach her respect for herself and her society and not let her grow up to be a woman who thinks the world revolves around her, even though I am sure her mom and me will.
109 - Phillip Winn
Whether Joe Francis is acting reprehensibly in creating the videos is debatable. The events described in the article, if true, are undebatably assault and rape. Nobody here knows whether they're true or not based on anything more than the statements from witnesses in the article above.
Those defending Joe Francis are making my skin crawl. Rape and assault, folks, rape and assault. Not getting someone drink to lower their judgement and videotaping the result: rape and assault.
110 - Gabriel
I think most of the point of views expressed here are correct.
That guy IS an incredible asshole who probably couldn't seduce a girl if he wasn't rich and if the girl wasn't drunk. Going down on a girl who is obviously NOT enjoying herself IS rape, though it's not the sordid "dragging a girl in an alley to force sexual intercourse" idea of rape we have in the common unconscious.
True also is the fact that this girl obviously was at least willing to go show her tits to a camera for a lame reason like getting in a movie, whichever type of movie it might be. When you start drinking and you don't stop past a certain point, you can't be held entirely responsible for what might happen with you, but yon can't act like it happened out of the blue.
As a québécois, where the legislation on alcohol is more loosely interpreted, my entourage and myself have started drinking around the age of 16 or so. Because of that, we get our drinking experiences a little earlier and by the time we are old enough to go out, we can manage to drink responsibly (or not) depending on our choice. When somebody becomes too drunk for its own good, the people around this person (male or female) should act responsibly and tell the aforementionned person to go home. This avoids ugly fist-fights as much as rape-like one-night-stands.
I also want to say that if you describe a girl who gets drunk and is willing to be part of these kinds of movie a slut, that's weak. Come on, such a behavior is only a symptom of lack of self-esteem and other deeply rooted problem. A poor girl who doesn't know better might be more suited.
Anyways, slut or poor little girl, all I know is I don't try to hit on these girls. I would feel miserable if I could only have succes with boozed-up women. Plus they stink and the sex is lousy.
111 - Staci Schoff
This was really interesting, thanks.
Some dumb videos of drunk girls flashing their boobs is only mildy annoying to me, but the predatory nature of Francis' behavior is really disturbing.
112 - Bry
Go figure a bunch of college age girls get drunk and then do something they regret so they attack the guy. He was just filming what really happens and shouldnt be punished for it.
113 - seagypsey
Here's a thought. I don't live in the U.S. so I don't know what the drinking age is in various places. It must be 18 because they are always asked if they are at least 18. If any girls drink and/or are drunk and underage they should be prosecuted. Raise the legal drinking age to 21. It could put him out of business. That's assuming a 21 year old drunk female has any brains yet. Just think if these drunk girls are driving.....
I have seen a couple of the videos in question and many of these ladies are "doing" each other. Why don't they just say no to each other?? It aappeared that they were enjoying what they were doing. Hmmm.
114 - Ping
If the woman was raped, why have charges not been filed?
115 - Lady Dragonfyre
seagypsey,
The drinking age in the United States is 21.
However, the age of majority here is 18; that's why Francis made the girl affirm on camera that she was 18.
If Mr. Francis provided alcohol to this girl, he can be charged criminally for it, even though she drank of her own free will.
116 - NIKKI
JOE IS A RAPIST. I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT. I HIRED A PRIVATE DETECTIVE AND FOUND 5 OTHER GIRLS. I TRIED TO PRESS CHARGES, BUT DID NOT HAVE ENNOUGH EVIDENCE. WISH I KNEW THEN, WHAT I KNOW NOW. HE IS SICK AND DEMENTED IN THE HEAD. SHE IS NOT THE ONLY GIRL WHO'S VIRGINITY HE TOOK. HE GETS OFF ON IT. HE GETS OFF ON THE FACT THAT SHE SAYS NO, THE INOCENT, SWEET ONES. SOME ONE HAS TO STOP HIM.
117 - Chas
What is truly disgusting is that Joe Francis is featured on "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" type shows on VH1 like he is just another celebrity. I'm a 32 year old male and would be disgusted by the thought of taking advantage of a intoxicated 17 year old child. The worst thing that vilely smirking, greasy-haired piece of human garbage does is hurt the image of all American males around his age. That he can get rich from this rape-lite industry he created is disgusting. I hope that he goes to prison for the rest of his life and is passed around so often by 2000 inmates that he never has time to put his pants back on. He obviously is from the same genetic cess pool as Ted Bundy. I wonder if any of the parents of the girls has two things- a sence of pride and sniper rifle training?
118 - Jstn
Wow. Great site, with, with lots of well thought out comments. I haven't much to add, except that I feel the need to apologize for my gender, after being exposed to the actions of a scumbag, like Francis. I have to wonder how he'd feel if he had someone like him hanging around his own 18 yr old daughter.
119 - bobby
you should show 1 day of uncencored action and if they miss it ch! to bad for them dummys really think about it the ratings are already high but 1 day of uncencored action they will go off the charts
120 - kelly
nothin ineed to say
121 - justpeachy
As a woman I feel a great deal of responsibility to behave in a way that respectfully represents all women. Having said that, I feel that the ultimate blame lies with women and girls and their parents to instill in them the importance of self-respect (especially nowadays when every schmuck has a video camera). I think all people (men, women, black, white,christian etc) have the same responsibility. I'm equally disgusted by Joe Francis as I am by the women who let him humiliate them. Believe me, I'm no stranger to drunken debauchery myself, but if I saw some guy heading toward me with a nose job as bad as Mr. Francis', I would run in the other direction before I even saw the camera. Or at least call some girlfriends over so we could share a laugh at his expense.
122 - Zilla
When Girls Gone Wild first hit the scene, I didn't even know Joe Francis' name. I just knew there were loads of girls screaming, flashing their breasts, and you could buy it all for $19.95. It was awhile later that I realized they were not paid anything but a T-Shirt, didn't have a stake in the profit, and they signed waivers to such an effect. It blew my mind.
Over the years, as any marketing phenom, it's gotten bigger, raised the stakes to keep 'em buying. The culture is changing, and I've heard girls that are very sober expressing desire to be picked for GGW, and hoping they'll make final cut so they can buy the DVD to show off. Francis knows this, and he capitalizes. It has always bothered me, on different levels.
Some people think he is a genius, and if you're talking on strictly marketing terms, he sure is. Still, I'm not sure how many individuals out there WOULD capitalize on what he does, in the way he does. The ones who would are the 'sell by whatever means necessary/greed is good' types, who deplorable for obvious reasons. He made a personal choice to found his company on the basis he did, and personally, I can't help but think someone who would do so has a sensitivity gene or two missing.
If he were a straight porn director who paid his actors for the product, I'd have much less problem with him, and much less suspicion.
Thing is, our media is skewed and hard to trust these days, so no media portrait of Mr. Francis can be touted as accurate. I think it will have to take someone with a conscience and great cunning within the GGW inner circle to capture film of Mr. Francis' alleged mysogyny and hatred of women to lend any weight to any claims. I have faith in time, and I truly do believe that before long, the guy will indeed crash and burn.
As for the girls, there are so many variables in each of their situations, that to herd them all under one statement or another is very unfair to me. I think some do sign the waiver, get their T-Shirt, buy the DVD featuring them, and never regret a thing. I think some do the same to fill some need they have right then in that time, then come to regret and learn from it later. Some I think are indeed very weak, very naive, and get themselves into a situation that screws them up for a long time. The bottom line is that rape in an atmosphere like that is not a crazy notion.
Furthermore, a girl being drunk or making a misguided choice does not make her body become open territory for any predator. No amount of alcohol renders a woman's body no longer hers, and no amount of alcohol changes the meaning of the word 'No'.
Mr. Francis could not have made the money he did without the women who delivered what was required. They do not profit the way he does, they do not gain the lifestyle he has, but still they keep doing it. For now they do anyway.
It's a hard topic, especially factoring the sexual climate of the culture which, as loathesome as he might be, Mr. Francis did not create all by himself. He profits from the influence it has on the girls, and there's not much anyone can do about it while the majority of the girls more than willingly feed this monster.
I don't find brests offensive, I don't think I'd find GGW so offensive if the dynamics were different. I find it so dumbfounding to think most of these girls would not go near a porn film, and yet they would be paid for doing the same acts they do for a T-shirt or a pair of panties on GGW. That many of these girls brag about their GGW escapades but will still turn their noses up at porn actresses for being 'whores'. I often wonder why, when there is a larger group of women in pornography harnessing the power of their bodies, the market for them, and reaping a profit from it. Mr. Francis has hit on a goldmine in this respect, and the thing that bothers me most are the young girls who do not seem to understand this bottom line, and what they're really giving away.
I don't think this country is going to hell in a handbasket of debauchery and hedonism. It's a cultural climate, and the climate always changes. Right now, I think the climate is harder to bear BECAUSE of the sexual aspect, and our innate discomfort when confronting it as a country.
It is discomforting to think that Mr. Francis is NOT on the level, that he exploiting GIRLS, I.E. children. He is about marketing and money, he is not about morality or sensitivity, which is something I think we can all agree on. He does not seem to have much any desire to express any concern for his subjects, his attitude indeed seems to be that if they agree, he will cash his check accordingly. I think his attitude will indeed lead to his downfall.
I think the more this man is covered in the media, which I actually hope he will be, then perhaps a new consciousness toward him will change with the climate. That the girls who would formerly indulge him will turn on him, and not deliver. That the people who buy his product will get an increasing feeling of discomfort in what they're contributing to, and go somewhere else for the fantasy they want to indulge.
123 - Mike Thetiger
Joe Francis is a genius.
124 - IvanMonet
If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
Teach your daughters to be more chaste.
Joe is an azz, that is not crimal, even if he is a scumball. These girls are responsible for the effects of their actions.
125 - David
Joe Francis is a Big Professional at what he does.
Girls be aware and be inform.