I'd like to share some thoughts about living through gay history.
Andy Marsh asked some honest and gentle questions of me in my article How Many Current Professional Athletes Are Gay? and I felt honored that he’d asked, because a lot of my straight friends have probably wondered the same things, so I’ve converted it into a sort of conversation.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Andy Marsh
so Silas...are you saying I still can't march with them?
27 - Silas Kain
Sure you can! The intelligent marchers are on floats anyway. Ever see a drag queen march in spikes? It ain't a pretty sight.
28 - troll
anyone hear how Moscow's parade went - ?
troll
29 - Jet in Columbus
Andy #24 You asked the questions on the other string that spurred the article, and I'm grateful that I had a forum to let it out.
Thanks Jet
30 - Jet in Columbus
Silas 25-Actually I was wondering about that too, thanks for clearing it up.
31 - Jet in Columbus
Andy 26 Go get a pair of speedos a size too small (white) and you can.
32 - Jet in Columbus
Silas 27 Puuuuuullllllllease!
33 - Andy Marsh
I stoped wearing those when I quit the swim team...about 150 years ago!
34 - Jet in Columbus
Troll-this was posted on BBC news...
It is a big "if" in the face of strong opposition from politicians who do not question the legal right of gay people to pursue their lifestyles in privacy, but do not want to see them making a show of it.
Clergy from Russia's two biggest faith groups, Russian Orthodox Christians and Muslims, have equally frowned upon the idea.
This week, the issue of the Moscow Pride electrified Moscow's media after a Muslim cleric was quoted as saying the paraders should be "thrashed by decent people".
It is a scenario which alarms Moscow's authorities in a year when Russia is entrusted with both stewardship of the G8 and, from 20 May, the Council of Europe - a body dedicated to promoting human rights.
Privacy and provocation
Inna Svyatenko, chairwoman of Moscow City Council's security commission, does not have a problem with the city's gay community.
BEING GAY IN RUSSIA
In Russian slang, a gay man is "blue" (goluboy) and a gay woman "pink" (rozovaya)
Homosexual acts in Russia were punishable by prison terms of up to five years until 1993
Sasha's story
"This city and civic society here are very protective of our sexual minorities," she says.
Gay people work freely in the city and are greatly respected for their contribution in areas such as retail and the creative professions, according to Ms Svyatenko.
They have their own clubs and, she adds, you need only look out the window of her downtown office to see where a gay lifestyle store opened its doors recently.
But she argues against the parade on three grounds: that much of the gay community allegedly oppose it themselves that similar events in East European capital cities like Riga last year ended in violent clashes that the preferred route would cause massive traffic disruption.
According to her information, most gay people in Moscow do not want the Pride because "it is their private life and they do not want to put it on show" and because such an event could provoke violence.
Inna Svyatenko wants to avoid the clashes seen in Europe last year
"In our fragile society, do we really need to provoke a situation in which the ultra-right and so-called skinheads rise up and the law enforcement agencies are unable to guarantee the safety of the paraders?" she asks.
Of course, the police could suppress any disorder if necessary, she says, but nobody in the city authorities would be prepared to take responsibility for "artificially provoking the disorder".
To allow a parade down Tverskaya Street, Moscow's central artery, would cause massive disruption in a city already choked with traffic, she adds.
"If the gays chose an area on the outskirts of the city or somewhere in Moscow Region, I think the authorities might take a different view," she says.
Inna Svyatenko accuses the organisers of the parade, and their supporters outside Russia, of "wanting to make a name for themselves without any thought for the impact of such an event on other people like them".
"I realise there are certain European countries where these parades have a long history and nobody cares but let's not drag Russia into this - Russia is not ready," she argues.
Breaking the ice
The word "pidor", a corruption of "pederast", is still one of the most common terms of abuse in Russia.
Whatever the local objections in Moscow, the parade would mark the first-ever Pride in Russia as a whole and public tolerance of gay people is still largely confined to a few big cities.
If people had really maintained the status quo in our history... homosexuality would still be a crime
Nikolai Alexeyev
"Russia needs the parade because it will help the country to show that we are a tolerant society," argues Nikolai Alexeyev, the chief organiser of the Pride.
"It will be a very strong attempt to break the ice between society and the gay community. People will understand that there are no reasons to be scared of sexual minorities."
Russian media, in his opinion, distort the image of gay people, portraying them as "perverts and people who only need pity".
Predicting a turnout of some 5,000, he strongly objects to moving the parade away from the centre though he is open to negotiation about the final route.
He also rejects the suggestion that many gay people do not want the Pride. Some gay businessmen, he suggests, are anxious about the Pride's possible commercial fallout, but, "at the end of the day, the fact is that activists and individuals support this event".
The Pride organiser links homophobia in Russia to poverty, saying the "more wealthy people are, the less they care about such things".
But some of the event's most vocal opponents are religious leaders, refusing to accept the validity of "non-traditional" sexual orientation, to use the Russian euphemism.
'Glorifying sin'
Talgat Tadzhuddin, head of the Muslim Spiritual Board in Central Russia, told Interfax news agency that Muslim anti-Pride protests could be angrier than those seen abroad over the Muhammad cartoons.
But his reported call to "thrash" paraders was not taken up by his counterpart in Asian Russia, Nafigulla Ashirov, who went on a Moscow radio station to say the use of violence was unacceptable.
While also rejecting the use of violence, the Russian Orthodox Church in Moscow has condemned the Pride as "homosexual propaganda and the glorification of sin".
Men interviewed in Moscow's new gay store did not believe the gay parade would happen simply because of the mounting hostility.
Its fate will not be decided until two weeks before it is due to be held, when the formal application for permission must be lodged with the Moscow mayor's office.
The mayor's office could not be reached for official comment but is believed to be strongly opposed.
Wilde's legacy
Among foreign figures lending support is Merlin Holland, grandson of Oscar Wilde, who, while not gay himself, plans to be in Moscow.
"I am happy to add my voice to those raised in protest against homophobia; my grandfather was imprisoned in 1895 simply for being a homosexual and our family was almost destroyed as a result," he wrote in a letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin this month.
Nikolai Alexeyev passionately believes in the need to make a stand, whatever the risk of a backlash. The Pride is timed to fall on the 13th anniversary of the decriminalisation of homosexuality in Russia.
"If people had really maintained the status quo in our history, the Cold War would have never ended, Boris Yeltsin would have never come to power and homosexuality would still be a crime in Russia," he says.
Meanwhile, in the Moscow gay store, the little plastic rainbow flags of the international gay rights movement stay firmly on the shelves and the store's business card refers only to "our theme".
Evidently, for some, a "love that dare not speak its name" must remain anonymous in Russia.
35 - Jet in Columbus
ArchBingBat 29-you mean the black Tshirt with the playboy emblem you wear to bed every night doesn't count?
You wear what ever you want, we accept everyone for what and who they are without prejudice...
do you?
36 - Jet in Columbus
Andy #34 wrote "I stoped wearing those when I quit the swim team...about 150 years ago!"
That means you must've appeared in you highschool yearbook in only a speedo-pictures post pictures!!!!!!!!!!!
37 - Andy Marsh
nah...my HS didn't have a swim team...it was a beach club thing...and no...belonging to a beach club does not denote wealth in NJ...it only denotes a desire to go to the beach...there are no free beaches in NJ!
38 - Jet in Columbus
No pictures? I'll mope around the house the rest of the day by teasing bitch!!!
39 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Informative article, Jet. I didn't really know the origin of the "gay pride" parade.
You obviously take an American viewpoint to all of this (duhhh), but it is a big wide world out there.
Take military service here. Nobody really cares about the sexual orientation of the next guy. It has never been an issue here. You serve in the unit and protect your buddies as best you are able in the fog of war. If anyone tried to deface the memory of a fallen soldier at this funeral, his unit would mash in the guy's face until it was as bloody as a liver. This would be irregardless of what the other soldiers in the unit thought of the fallen soldier's sexual orientation, or what the rabbi thought of his sexual orientation. A man who falls for his country desrves the highest respect, and his family deserves all the support possible in the time of their loss. End of disacussion.
A lot of the kids at my younger son's school are gay and they tend to be the strongest kids in the school. Gay bashing can be a tooth-loosening experience there. Bear in mind that this is a religious school. How they reconcile their orientation with the rules in the Torah calling man on man sexual activity "to'evá," an abomination, is a mystery to me. They do not go to the "pride parades," as they are called here. But they are not in some closet of self hatred either.
"Gay marriage" is not the issue here that it is in America, primarily because the state does not load marriage with the benefits that the American state and federal governments do, and primarily because there is no legal "civil marriage" here. If there were, though, I'm sure this argument wuld heat up like water on the fire in a tea kettle, and would come to a very angry boil very quickly.
40 - Jet in Columbus
Thank you for your thoughts Ruvy, as always I value them. I've been doing a lot of pondering and I've come to the conclusion that being Gay became a sin in ancient times because the Jews were vastly outnumbered, so out of survival anything that didn't produce kids and lots of them would naturally be considered taboo, even to the point of having multiple wives. The more kids the more secure your future race of people becomes.
The trouble is bigots have carried that over to today. Hispanics have learned that lesson well and that's why their quickly becoming the largest minority here. Blacks knew it, but have canceled it out by constantly killing eachother in the ghettos.
blessings my friend.
41 - Michael J. West
One of the best articles I've ever read on BC, Jet. I missed my deadline for an Editor's Pick, or I'd have nominated this. It will be a crime if somebody else doesn't.
42 - Jet in Columbus
Thank you Micheal, just your saying that is honor enough my friend...
43 - Andy Marsh
Hey! If this gets picked I want some of the credit Jet!
44 - Jet in Columbus
FOR WHAT?????? GIVE YOU CREDIT FOR WHAT??? Boy that takes a lot of fuckin' nerve! Just because you inspired me to write it, just because your questions were used, just because you made me go into my heart and soul and risked getting shit on by a bunch of assholes who all call me faggot behind my back only to find just how many friends I have on this site instead.
YOU THINK THAT GIVES YOU THE GAUL TO ASK ME FOR CREDIT TO YOU FOR SOMETHING I WORKED ON???????
YOU ABSOFUCKINGLOOTLY RIGHT IT DOES.
love
Jet
45 - Andy Marsh
You're a funny guy...and I mean ha ha funny...not the "other" kind of funny!
and I promise...if we're ever in the same room together...I won't tell that joke when you leave the room! Swear!
46 - Jet in Columbus
That went without saying Andy, but thanks
47 - A.L. Harper
Jet wow I'm...
Beautiful article.
48 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks A.L.
49 - savvyplanners
Thanks, Silas...in some places it also represents "intersex(ed)".
isna.org
Have a good night all.
50 - Richard Brodie
Are there hetero games or hetero pride days?
Of course not. That would be considered the gender equivalent of "racism" - just like the USPTO has issued trademarks on "Black Pride", "Asian Pride", and every other variant of racial, national, and ethnic pride, but refuses to grant a trademark on "White Pride".
It is not politically correct to discriminate, UNLESS it is discrimination against Caucasians. In fact anti-white can be considerd pretty much the definition (and motivation) of "political correctness".
51 - Jet in Columbus
Considering the Gay Games is open to all athletes, and a lot of straights do particate now I don't see the point. Is the U.S. Open discriminatory? It's just a name. It's celebrating the anniversary of Stonewall, and celbrating our differences and similarities...
52 - Arch Conservative
Damn Richard Brodie.........I don't know where you came from but I like your style. You, myself, Mr' Barger and Mr. Marsh are just about the only people on BC who have enough sense to state things as they really are.
Of course it would be wrong to have a white pride parade or a straight pride parade. Just ask a liberal. And of course it's racist, bigoted and narrow minded of you to have an opinion that in anyway deviates from the American liberal view of the world. I'm against gay marriage so of course that means I went out last night and ran down 5-10 homosexuals with my ford pickup while wearing my stihl baseball cap, listening to country music, dipping tobacco and watching a big gaudy cross jingle jangle all night long from my rearview mirror. I'm also against affirmative action so that means I attended a klan meeting last night too, burend a couple of crosses on select lawns, hung a few negros etc.. etc..... I'm against abortion so that means I blew up a couple of abortion clinics last night after picketing in front of them all day long.......
Gee I sure was busy yesterday huh? Well It's tough work being an evil, narrow minded, bigoted, racist, unprogressive American conservative aint it Brodie?
You seem to have similiar views to mine Brodie so be prepared to be labbeled with all kinds of bullshit leftist stingers once you have expressed those views
53 - Jet in Columbus
Typical insensitive babbling from ArchBingBat. I love it when you try and fail to make sense. Don't ever change sweetie...
54 - Dave Nalle
I'm currently celebrating Balding, Middle-Aged Simian day.
Dave
55 - Jet in Columbus
Forgive me Dave; I know there's a good reason why you're telling me that, I just can't figure out what it is?
56 - Joey
All this speedo talk... reminds me of a joke. I can't remember the whole thing (which isn't unusual) But the punch line is something like this...
If you're gonna wear the speedo at beach today, put the potato in the front this time.
57 - Jet in Columbus
I had a green on once, but it turned blue because I didn't put it in the refridgerator with some baking soda. Thay say if you put a little hole in it first the chemical change is slower, but they didn't tell me what size or if you use scotch tape or not.
58 - A.L. Harper
"I had a green on once, but it turned blue because I didn't put it in the refridgerator with some baking soda. Thay say if you put a little hole in it first the chemical change is slower, but they didn't tell me what size or if you use scotch tape or not."
Does this sound naughty to anyone else? I'm just wondering to what you were referring. Because this response is funny as hell!
59 - Arch Conservative
NO it sounds stupid and off topic...[Edited]
60 - Jet in Columbus
Joey, it was in response to 54, 55, and 56 where I couldn't figure out why Dave was telling me he was balding and you couldn't remember your punch line, so I elected to babble right along with you both for a good laugh.
61 - Jet in Columbus
Of coures ArchBoingBat didn't get the joke, which is to be expected... poor thing.
62 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks Suss for editing those errors for me sir!
63 - Silas Kain
"...Well It's tough work being an evil, narrow minded, bigoted, racist, unprogressive American conservative..."
Actually, it lacks creativity and defies accountability. When in doubt, blame it on God. It's His will. His will be done. Jump. Shout. Knock yourself out. Let go, let God. Buy at Wal-Mart.
64 - Arch Conservative
"It's His will. His will be done."
mmmm I have never used either of those phrases on BC
You can try to attribute all kinds of things I never said to me and/or other conservative posters but that doesn't change the fact the it is the left's bread and butter to call anyone who disagrees with them such things. (racist, bigot, etc...)
65 - zingzing
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66 - Jet in Columbus
Silas, it reminds me of one of the most stupid mistakes Christians make. They always say "The Lord giveth and the lord taketh away" to explain away something bad happening, but since they blindly believe everything they read in the bible they keep quoting that passage ad nausea.
THEY'RE WRONG!!!!!!!
Job said it, but in actual fact God took nothing from him-the Devil did!!!"
but they'll keep quoting it like blind little fundamentalist sheep that they are...
67 - Jet in Columbus
ArchBoingBat 64-You may not have said that, but enough other shit has come out of your mouth to make up for it.
68 - Jet in Columbus
Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for-Thank you Zing for...
69 - chantal stone
*feeling the need to defend Christians here*
Here's the deal: the stroy of "Creation", the story of "Job", and other such stories in the Bible, I believe (contrary to most other Christians), were intended to simply explain something that coudldn't otherwise be explained.
Isn't that how most religions started? Early civilisations didn't have the science to explain the unknown, and left with the vastness of the earth and ones own imagination, we have the birth of religion.
The thing is, and MOST Christians miss this point (they still mean well, I think), God doesn't require blind faith. God wants reverence. And I don't even believe He cares if we call Him God, Jesus Christ, Jehovah, Allah or Jimbo....it's more of a sense knowing there's something greater than ourselves, a simple appreciation of Life, the Earth, fellow Man, and of this World that we live in. It's not the great Mystery people make it out to be.
More and more, I'm really beginning to dislike being grouped with other "Christians". *sigh*
70 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks Chantal, no offense intended. Personally I was so full of the love of god in my teens I wanted tp be a presbyterian minister, but after so many people representing the allmighty convinced me to avoid churches, I developed my own relationship with him, but lately in the last 19 months I haven't been able to feel him at all, and in my anger I guess I'm striking out at his absense.
I just don't understand why this won't stop happening to me.
love
jet
71 - chantal stone
JEt---you certainly never offend me....ignorant Christians do that well enough for all of us ;)
72 - Silas Kain
I saw the BEST bumper sticker this morning and it is now my new mantra:
Just His fan clubs!
That pretty much sums it up.
73 - chantal stone
you're right, it does, Silas.
74 - Jet in Columbus
Amen
75 - Jet in Columbus
Michael West 41-I've had some time to read some of your stuff now and all I can sey is the same back atcha- to bad there's no honorable mentions.