I would like someone to clear something up for me. Or if y’all will vote on this, that would be great. Because no one seems to know if men should get the door these days, and hold it open for women. On a date, sure. But what about in general?
Because I am forever arriving at the door of the gym at the same time as a man and I am utterly baffled about what to do. Should I stand by and wait for him to open the door? And there are two doors! So if he opens the first door and holds it for me, should I open the second door and hold it for him? Or do I pretend to be oblivious to sex and simply reach for the door in an assertive way, and hold it for him?
You would probably be amazed how frequently I think about this, but fact is, I go to the gym a lot and run into this scenario as a matter of routine. And I want this resolved.
Currently, if it’s an older man, say fifty years old and over, I wait for him to get the door. Men of this era were definitely trained to hold doors for women and seem injured when they are denied the privilege. But men in their forties, thirties, and especially their twenties…well I am lost. And frankly, they seem similarly confused.
As for how I feel personally, I consider myself a man’s woman all the way. However, I could also be called a “feminist” considering I sued a boss for sexual harassment when I was 17-years old, way before “Anita Hill”. Could this be why I am confused? Maybe. If you are less confused, could you help me out? Thank you.
Article comments
1 - JELIEL³
Ah there's the rub. I open doors for women because I was raised like that and it's always nice to be nice, civil, makes the world a better place. But don't EXPECT me to, this will turn against you.
I find that women always expect men to get out of the way on sidewalks, for example, even if that means stepping unto speeping traffic when the corrum of women talking together could have just broken formation to let the guy pass by.
Just my 2¢
2 - Dawn
I think whoever gets to the door first opens it for the other. Politeness has no gender.
3 - elsa
I wonder how old the people commenting are. 20's? 30's? 40's? What? Because this is the problem. Attitudes have obviously shifted but where is the tipping point?
4 - Elsa
And another thing I wonder: What do you teach your kids? I teach my son to open doors, and hold them for everyone. That this is what a classy man does. He's six...and a double Libra. That means he is into manners and very comfortable with this.
5 - Robin
Dawn is correct. The person that gets to the door first opens it. Simple as that! As a protocol/etiquette consultant this is exactly what I teach!
6 - elsa
ha ha ha. Then chivalry really is dead! Well, thank you Robin. This is exactly what I wanted to know. What’s apparently obvious to the younger generation is baffling to us dinosaurs. Believe me, there was a time it was very different…
And since I date in my peer group…well I would be appalled at a man who did not open the door to a restaurant or whatever. I would think him a total idiot and since I don’t date dips, I am sure I would never see the guy again!
But at the gym, I typically do exactly as you suggest, although it seems “fumbly” about half the time. I guess I don’t like “running over” men who would like to / are trained to get the door for a woman and allow her to pass first. And there are still quite a few of them out there.
7 - Victor Lana
You know what? I go out of my way to be courteous to everyone. Chivalry is not dead in any way (at least not for me). I see a pregnant woman on the subway, I get up right away. I see a young woman with a stroller coming toward me, I hold open the door. I see a senior citizen in the supermarket parking lot, I offer to put the bags in the trunk of his/her car.
There is no cost to being courteous, but it does have its rewards.
8 - elsa
Well, one advantage of holding the door for a woman - you get to see her ass as she passes in front of you. :-)
And as a woman, you get to show you ass. ;)
9 - Baronius
Well, at least one 40-year-old was taught to open doors for women. (Thank you, Dad!) But I live and work in secure buildings, and you're not supposed to open the door for anyone. Technology and urban alienation team up against manners.
10 - A.L. Harper
Elsa I have a question - how do you know if you're a double libra?
11 - elsa
A.L. - a person is considered a "Double Libra" if their sun and moon are both in Libra. These days, most extend that to mean, Sun, Moon or rising in Libra. Two of the three in Libra = a double Libra. All three in Libra? "Triple Libra". And same for the other signs.
As for finding out your Moon, rising sign, etc. - you can get your chart free at astro.com and various other places online. You'll just need to input your data... birth date, exact time and the city where you were born.
12 - John G. Robertson
Dear Elsa,
I am sending my two cents (or two pence) worth from England. I write from an international perspective " born Canadian, educated in the USA and living in England. I am also a professional protocol and etiquette consultant.
First, please adjust your age perspective by at least a decade. Men currently in their fifties were brought up in the 60s, a time when good manners were already on the wane, well past the time of etiquette classes, or dancing classes, or even school citizenship classes. Sixty-plus may be a more appropriate cut-off point.
In a social or business situation, the person who reaches the door first may confidently open it and courteously hold it for whomever is following. This act of common courtesy is gender-neutral. But if on a date, a woman should allow the gentleman the opportunity to assume this role. If he is oblivious to this simple gesture of respect and consideration, take the honour and hold the door for him. Don’t make an issue out of it, but this is important information to file away about your escort.
Please continue to be aware of issues of courtesy and respect (aka etiquette) and do not hesitate to involve your friends and professional colleagues in this important dialogue. We currently have two adult generations who are oblivious to the basic considerations of polite social intercourse, and are in danger of raising a third. I travel the world recruiting foot-soldiers for civility, one recruit at a time, and invite you to (please) join in.
13 - Jake Harris
Hi, I'm Jake, and I'm 15 from Australia. I have been brought up by my parents to hold doors open for girls of all ages and do other generous acts. I see it as my role, but not one that i assume to show domination of women. It just makes me feel good. Being young as I am, I can see that Chivalry is certainly not dead yet, and I will teach my children the same. But yeah, I'm not all that brushed up on everything i need to know about chivalry (that's why i cam to this website) so i'm not sure whats happening in modern times....
14 - Chelsea
I totally agree. i am in this situation at my high school ALL of the time. The boys at my school are sometimes rude, in a sense, and don't hold the door open for girls who enter into the building. there are very few who do open the door, if they do, i say thank you and smile. i don't think some guys know that openning the door for a young lady is very important or kind to do so.
15 - ew
I'm 43, male, and confused myself. Older mature women appreciate the gesture. If you try to be polite to a young women almost in any form; You get the what the hell are you doing creep look.
16 - Soph
I'm 16, and although I know guys aren't ever really taught about manners & chivalry any more, i wish they were. my grandad opens doors for all women/girls on instinct, and i think its just a really nice thing to do. the whole idea of common courtesy seems to have disappeared in this modern age and i'm glad to hear there are still guys like Jake who have some idea of chivalry.
17 - mark
Elsa I feel you should definitely let the man open the door. Most men will gladly do so as in general we have quite a reverence for you ladies. You are special to us! Also with two doors after you have entered you should keep looking forward but wait for the second door to be opened. I remember one day having a work-related lunch with a married lady I barely knew and she was ahead of me approaching the restaurant but when she neared the door she waited in a most classy way and the same with the second door. I also pulled the chair and we had a very respectful, professional, pleasant time. Anyhow I'm rambling but those are my thoughts.
18 - Nancy
I'm ... not old enough to retire yet (but wish I were). Who opens the door depends on circumstances with me: if I get to the door first, & my hands are relatively unimpeded, I open/hold the door. If I've got an armful, I hang back & wait for the other party to do it. If we both are loaded up, I guess we both wait for a 3rd unimpeded party to come along, or we try to open it with our feet.
I don't give up my seat to anyone younger than I am, unless there's some overriding reason to do so, such as the last stages of pregnancy (note: the LAST stages, not early on) or a disability. I definitely give it up to anyone substantially older, male or female, because I was brought up that way. However, since these days I'm sporting a bionic leg & cane, usually I end up having them give me a seat.
If I invite someone to dinner, I pay. I was taught whoever issues the invitation pays. At dinners I clean my plate, but do not ever take the last portion unless sincerely urged to do so. A friend of mine who grew up in Scandinavia only helps herself to cakes from the MIDDLE; apparently in Scandinavian countries, that way the middle can be filled up with fruit & whipped cream & served again, while if you cut from the edge like Americans do, you ruin the cake. Go figure.
Among women, it's commonly considered rude to ignore others in the ladies room with you. Talking among patrons is normal. Among men, it's just not done. They all pretend they're alone, even when they're elbow-to-elbow at the urinals.
NYC-ers commonly ignore everbody else & avoid eye contact. But if you start a conversation with them, they become very friendly & voluable, especially if you're waxing enthusiastic on NYC - in which case the entire bus/car/train may join in. Around the mid-atlantic rural areas I'm in, when someone (a total stranger in line with you at a store, for example)is short a few pennies' change, it's common to pay the penny or two for them if you have it handy, if only for the reason that it shortens your waiting time so you don't have to stand there while they fumble around finding one. In NYC when I did this, I was met with the same astounded expressions as if I had volunteered to pay off someone's mortgage. Such amazement for what I regarded as a commonplace courtesy was flattering but also a bit depressing.
Interesting to see/hear what's acceptable not only in other age cohorts but other parts of the country or even the same region.
19 - Robert
Do I hold the door open for either gender? The answer is yes -- but with an asterisk. The difference is based on the strong belief, having read a lot of web material on the subject, that women are much more likely to want and appreciate it than men are. Also, I believe in chivalry myself.
Just what I do depends in part on 1) whether it's a "push" or "pull" door, 2) whether the other person is on the same side of the door as me or the other side, 3) how far the person is behind me.
So for example, if I'm approaching a "pull" door and it's a man behind me, I'll hold the door behind me for him to take, but if it's a woman I'll keep it open and stand aside so she can go through first. On the other hand, if it's a "push" door then I'd behave almost the same whether it's a man or women coming up behind me because of the logistics of the situation, except that the distance a woman can be behind me for me to do so is a little longer than for men.