It’s interesting to me how language devolves and evolves like this and yet the word we even perhaps overuse more than others has not lost its meaning and power, or not in the way that these other words have and giving the finger, if done correctly and with some real power behind it. (And I don’t mean flipping someone off when you’re driving, which is just generally a bad idea because in to many states you could just get shot for doing this and while I’ve done it, it’s really not a good idea and I duck every time I’ve done it.)
Some the best songs are revenge songs, which occurred to me as I was listening to Frankee singing "Fuck You Right Back", which I love because it is responsive and it’s not that she was a nasty person, it’s that she is pissed and the song is responsive to another song called "Fuck You" by an ex. Nor is this any ordinary revenge song because even though so many of them have power ("Come Pick Me Up" by Ryan Adams for example, which I think works well, it still doesn’t have as much power because even though the betrayal and anger show through, it is more betrayal than anger.) Elliott Smith was also very good at using the word fuck in his songs, just casually tossing it in there but it landed like a punch to the gut; if only he knew how affecting and moving his work really was, he would be here today; we cannot know.
The lyrics to "Fuck You Right Back" are such, “but I do admit I’m glad, I didn’t catch crabs.” among other such lines aimed to the recipient. This is truly nasty stuff and the last line, You made me do this and the way it is said really delivers the final punch. She is right too.
If he really didn’t care, as he boasts like a strutting cock, then why is he crying like a bitch and talking shit, as she notes. Why did he write a song about her if he didn’t really care? Logic prevails. He obviously is not quite over it and still has some issues that remain unresolved. I love Fuck You Right Back merely as a responsive title because it is so straightforward and not trying to cover or mask emotion or anger. I love that the anger is responsive and not just naturally aggressive, which would make a difference, or to me would make a difference anyway. No question that the meaning of the song or the message could be lost on the recipient or any doubt as to who the recipient is.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - JoJo
Way to cover up an advertisement with a linguistics lesson.
2 - sade
advertisement for what? sorry, but i'm not clear on this. be well,
3 - jomama
Just this morning I had the idea to start a one person campaign to put the "u" back in "f*cking".
cheers...
4 - LegendaryMonkey
I'm with you, jomama. Let fuck be fuck!
I remember reading somewhere that the origin was actually from a punishment for having illegal (at the time, many many hundreds of moons ago) sexual relations and it was an abbreviation meaning "for unlawful carnal knowledge."
Seems a bit convenient... wish I could source it.
5 - sade
i'm with ya... and use often in posts, but in the spirit of trying to respect others, decided here it didn't matter quite as much, though honestly, if it DID matter anywhere, it was probably here more than anywhere... lol
thanks...
cheers to all
sade
6 - Nancy
Query on a side notion: why do people use the term "making love" for the sex act, when there is no "love" involved: it's just pure screwing, humping, fucking, whatever? Is this coyness, or do they really think that affection has something to do with it? I always wonder.
7 - sade
my guess? probably just to make themselves feel better about something that they feel is cheap; whether it is cheap or not, i can't say. i mean, sex can be fine if people agree that's all it is etc etc... it may not be for me, but whatever.
but my guess? i think those who do call it "making love" are, as i said, just trying to make it sound more romantic etc etc than it really is, or to ascribe some meaning where there is none.
just a guess.
maybe?
sade
8 - sade
there was one song i remember, it went something like "do ya wanna make love? or do ya just wanna fool around...."
Total non sequitor in some ways but anyway, just occurred to me as perhaps a more honest song, albeit a bad one..
do yo remember that song? i forget who sang it A seventies one hit wonder i suspect.
s.
9 - anonymous bowman
I am surprised more dont know of the origin of the phrase "Fuck You" in 1100ad the time of the English Longbow which was made out of Yew, the primary torture by the enemy of the bowman was the amputation of the middle finger prior to execution or further torture of the bowman, from that time on the insult consisted of the showing of the Middle finger to the enemy and the shouting of the phrase "Pluck Yew" at the soon to be skewered enemy by way of showing that they, the english longbowman still had his primary weapon finger and was soon to kill the foe with same... :)(or so my archery instructor told me in the mid 1950s and I have since read in several history books, true?? dont know but it makes a damn good story!:)
10 - sade
bowman:
what an interesting story; i had never heard that, so it's fascinating to me.... thanks for sharing that.. whether true or not, it makes an interesting little story to tell and if true, an intersting piece of history. i really enjoy the book recommended above, though it concludes the origin cannot really be traced, but has a lot of theories, prob. this being one of them. i can't recall now.. but interesting stuff.
cheers, & thanks for sharing this...
sade
11 - Casey
I ran across one article that stated FUCK came from a decree of a king which was used to breed out all the Scotsmen. They couldn't beat them in battle so on the wedding night of any Scottish men and women the English Lord had permission to "have" the woman first. Fornication Under Consent of King or FUCK. Im not sure the truth in the matter, but it could have some truth to it. I have heard about the archer story and I agree that showing the middle finger came from this, but what was yelled, who knows....I guess the debate continues....
12 - Dr Dreadful
Casey: no, that's an urban legend. It's a very old word and has cognates in other languages (it's 'fick' in German) - so it's been around at least since English split from German around 1500 years ago.
13 - STM
Casey: "I ran across one article that stated FUCK came from a decree of a king which was used to breed out all the Scotsmen. They couldn't beat them in battle".
Ah Casey, a quick lesson in history: They did beat them in battle on numerous occasions, and never attempted to breed out the Scots. You've been watching too much Hollywood.
They made a pact with them instead, and got them on their side, much to the consternation of many of Britain's enemies in the years following.
Very smart.
I mean, you can just imagine the French, can't you, in a hundred battles leading up to Waterloo: "Merde ... we have been beaten again by men who wear skirts. And not even good skirts made by Paris Milliners like some of us like to wear. When will our shame and humiliation end?"
Ooh la la.
14 - Dr Dreadful
Stan, a quick lesson on your quick lesson: after the
BattlePact of Culloden (a dreary and horrible place which would have been rendered even more insufferable with a draught up your aft), the English actually banned the wearing of the kilt, even when fighting the French.The reasons for this decision are lost in the mists of time, but it's likely they had to do with the English notion of fair play. A French army confronted with the sight of charging kilted Scotsmen, their staffs swaying as they advanced, would undoubtedly turn tail and flee, thereby not having a chance to stand and make a fight of it.
15 - Jet in Columbus
Oddly enough the root of flipping the bird came from the middle ages, when the French would sever the middle finger of English archers to prevent them from using their bows.
The tradition came from the english flashing that digit to say "See I still got mine!"
16 - STM
Doc, I thought the word in German - romantic of romantic languages that it is - was "boomsen".
"Ja, ja ... (slaps lederhosen), boomsen!!"
I always thought the word f.ck originated in Australia.
It's used in nearly every sentence.
"F.k me, it's 'ot."
"Aorta fix them f.cking roads before some poor f.cker cops it."
"Fair f.cking dinkum".
"F.cking pommies!".
"Mate, you've totally f.cked that."
Also regularly used in conjunction with "whez-me" ... as in "Whez-me f.cking car keys??".
etc, etc
17 - Jet in Columbus
Well, if you can't believe the History Channel who can you believe?
18 - Dr Dreadful
Jet: I don't know, but the History Channel is sometimes not the most reliable of sources. We don't do 'flipping the bird' over in Blighty. Our equivalent is the V-sign. There are two ways of making the sign, one nice (with the pads of the fingers pointing outwards - Winston Churchill famously used to get it wrong) meaning Victory, and one vulgar, with the knuckles pointing outwards, meaning... well, let's just say that no-one ever seems to have had the courage to explain it to Winston.
That gesture is said to have originated at the Battle of Agincourt, where the French heavy cavalry, regarded as the most formidable fighting machine in Europe at the time, was destroyed by a force of lightly-armed English archers. During lulls in the battle the archers would raise their index and middle fingers - the ones they used to draw back the strings on their longbows - to taunt the French with the instruments of their downfall.
19 - Jet in Columbus
I've seen the V on nearly episode of "Are you being served?" of which I have all the DVDs.
Love it.
20 - Jet in Columbus
Doc, somehow though I knew you were from the UK, I thought you live in California?????
21 - STM
They were wearing them again though by the time of the Peninsula War.
Which is undoubtedly the reason why the British won it.
Weren't they also weearing them at Waterloo.
I know some Scots regiments wore checked "trews", but some wore kilts.
They definitely shocked the Germans during the early battles of WWI - even Hitler, musing on the value of propaganda, writes about it in Mein Kampf: about the shocked look on the faces of his mates when, believing German spin that the Poms were but a nation of shopkeepers and softc.cks, they were suddenly subjected to their first battle in which they came up against furious Scotsmen, who'd rather have been at the pub.
Imagine a whole bunch of blokes in skirts and no undies jumping into a trench above your head. Worse, imagine doing it. Those bayonets ... ouch!!
Eek! Either, way you'd just wanna throw yer hands up there and then.
PS, Doc, I have heard that too in relation to the finger (probably also on the History Channel). It has the ring of truth about it.
However, I can report that the favoured "up-yours" salute in Britain is still delivered with two fingers, in the shape of the V - like Winston Churchill's famous V-for-victory salute.
Which in reality was probably an "up-yours" to Hitler.
However, given that American cultural mores are taking over the English-speaking world, the single-digit salute has been enjoying something of a resurgence if the History Channel is right
22 - Jet in Columbus
Me speakum good english just don't type good
23 - Dr Dreadful
Stan... 'bumsen'. German has almost as many words for the sexy time as English does.
Much more than mere sex, Germans seem to be extraordinarily fascinated by (a) nudity, both male and female, and (b) flatulence.
My parents used to have a little plaque hanging on the door of the downstairs toilet which they'd picked up on their honeymoon (the plaque, not the toilet). It said, "Wenn's Arscherl brummt ist's Kerzerl g'sund" - which means "When the bottom buzzes the heart is healthy".
Words we can all live by, I think.
24 - Dr Dreadful
I do indeed live in California now, Jet.
Sadly, despite the fantasies of anyone I meet when I visit home that California is exclusively comprised of palm-lined beaches, from any one of which the Hollywood sign is clearly visible, I actually reside in the endless boring flat bit in the middle.
BTW, how are your eyes doing? Your comments seem to be both more frequent and less error-strewn lately, so I surmise from that there's been something of an improvement.
:-)
25 - Dr Dreadful
The single-finger gesture is apparently much older and in fact Aristophanes - that irreverent old bugger - used it in one of his plays.
Word of caution: if you're ever in the Middle East, don't give someone the thumbs up sign - it's the sign Winston would have made if Hitler had been an Arab!