Roman civilization fell in the fifth century A.D. following the devastation of Rome by Vandals in 410. The fall took some time and now, more than 1500 years later, archaeologists are arguing whether it was a collapse or a transformation of society.
The academic battle over what happened then could be transported into the future. If America falls to the terrorist crazies, will it be the collapse of a great civilization and Pax Americana or a natural transformation into another kind of society?
Into this great story of past and future, jump the British archaeologists, Bryan Ward-Perkins and Peter Brown as leading proponents of each side of the story. Ward-Perkins garnered my non-archaeologist's attention with an article in the fine, British magazine, History Today. His article in the June, 2005 issue, "The End of The Roman Empire: Did It Collapse or Was it Transformed?" describes the work of recreating the everyday life of the Roman city of Luna. Luna fell on hard times after the fall of Rome and, finally, died so thoroughly that its fine buildings, temples and villas of stone and marble, its roads and aqueduct were covered and lost. Much of those prosperous times have been studied and excavated. Ward-Perkins is studying the civilization that came afterwards which was housed in wooden houses with far more primitive utensils and tools and, due to the nature of the materials, has been even harder to reconstruct.
Ward-Perkins writes of working with a team of scientists in the 1970's on the "site of Luna, a Roman city in northern Italy, on the coast about halfway between Pisa and Genoa." Luna was part of the Empire and had "the full range of Roman urban amenities...". Which is to say, bath houses with water piped in, paved roads with drainage and a system of sewage removal underneath, fine villas decorated with frescos and marble, public buildings, temples and a theater. The people used sophisticated ceramics in which there was a complex, successful trading system. The Mediterranean was "a peaceful commercial lake for five centuries..." of Pax Romana. Luna was affluent from the production of Carrara marble but, in the 4th or 5th centuries, the quarries were abandoned and were not used for the next 700 years. The great buildings not only fell but were torn apart for building materials (much as some Mayan cities became parts of newer, less civilized dwellings).
Article comments
1 - Baronius
Well, this is a daunting topic. My first thought is that many historians, conciously or not, see history as moving in a certain direction. A little bit of Hegel or utopianism influences their thoughts. This could easily incline someone to see the fall of Rome as progress. Another strong tendency among historians is to see 400AD to maybe a week ago as "Dark Ages". Such people would have to see Rome's fall as a loss.
The fall of Rome must have been devastating to the people of the time. America has been dominant for a fraction of the time of Rome. Many people in the 400's didn't even have an oral tradition of life before the Empire. That said, a lot of things would have mitigated the loss. Christianity. The fairly quick appearance of Charlemagne. Byzantium. And the fact that the Roman Empire didn't fall all at once. It stumbled along after the sack of Rome only somewhat worse than before. (Mainly because it was a mess beforehand too.)
I see the US as much less important than Rome; maybe comparable to Venice at its height. The wealthiest and strongest of several powers for a couple of centuries. A post-US world led by the barbarians would be substantially different from one divided between China, Islam, France/Germany, and the Mexican/Australian Empire or whatever.
Alpha, have you ever read any Toynbee? He talks about the rise and fall of civilizations. I've never read his works, but I think he deals with issues you've raised. He's definitely on my theoretical-free-time reading list.
2 - Victor Plenty
Terrorists are powerless to make civilization fall. Rome was never sacked by any such pathetic handful of lunatics, forced to skulk and hide even in their own homelands. The barbarians who took over Rome would laugh in disdain at the cowardice and impotence of Osama bin Laden and his ilk.
By far the greater danger we face today is the threat of internal collapse, brought about by an irrational fear of terrorism. Costly and futile attempts to prevent any and all imaginable or unimaginable attacks are placing far more strain on our civilization than anything the most ambitious terrorist could ever possibly have hoped to achieve. Even the attacks of September 11 caused very little direct damage to the civilized world, compared to the indirect damage resulting from people's ignorant overreactions, such as canceling all their air travel plans.
When people are hurt or killed in terrorist attacks, of course it's a saddening and fearful event for the victims and their families. However, it is not a sign of civilization's impending collapse. If today's global "Western" civilization is ever destroyed, it certainly won't be because it was conquered by the mentally deficient religious fanatics you seem to fear.
3 - alpha
Victor. I totally agree with you: the danger to America as a "civilization" is that it will bring itself down with fears that lead to a death of freedom, liberty and constitutionalism.
I am not afraid of terrorism half as much as the radical conservatism that purports to fight it.
And yes, Baronius. I have read Gibbon and a little Toynbee. Our situation and time are different but this story of Luna and the battles of researchers are interesting. Thanks for the comment.
4 - Baronius
I'm not persuaded that any of our actions in response to terrorism endanger our democracy. I've always waved my freak flag and worried about governmental power, so it surprises me that other people are panicking about something that doesn't make me nervous. Even if we are overstepping - arguable - our society has shown amazing stamina. We bounced back from J. Edgar Hoover, and the treatment of Germans and Japanese during WWII. I'm not defending those periods in our history. Rather I look at those excesses and see how little long-term damage they did. And we haven't done anything as egregious in the current battle.
5 - Richard Brodie
while still making sure that the empire is strong with the blood of new settlers and immigrants making strong contributions to our society.
This is nonsense. It is America which produces and exports the "strong contributions" to the rest of the world, not the other way around. Rome is in no way comparable to America.
And what if there was a one-world global society and government? Where then would "new blood" come from? The fact is it wouldn't need any if it were sufficiently friendly to diversity (as America is) - and I don't mean trivial racial, ethnic, and religious diversity; I mean intellectual diversity, the freedom of all people to flower in whatever field of economic or artistic production they are inclined to be passionate about. America is the equivalent of such a one-world culture in miniature.
But we are now full. If nothing else, the water supply is nearly exhuasted. And if you don't think we are full at 300 million, when, if ever do you think we would be full? a billion, ten billion, a hundred billion? At some point we reach a level where the only way to accomodate a higher population is to pay the price of a lower standard of living. And I think we probably reached that point fifty years ago.
6 - gonzo marx
Victor sez...
*By far the greater danger we face today is the threat of internal collapse, brought about by an irrational fear of terrorism.*
Quoted for Truth
Baronius sez...
*I'm not persuaded that any of our actions in response to terrorism endanger our democracy.*
well now, i can Understand your Viewpoint here, but i am not as Optimistic
the Reason? .... technology
the tech available now for Big Brother type purposes is so beyond the most fevered Dreams of Hoover, for example, or even Orwell...that the possibilities for infringement on our Rights under the Constitution are not just in jeapordy form our Government, but from multi-national corporations as well
the tech-genie is out of Pandora's magnetic "box", and we can only hold on to the Truth that Hope springs Eternal
for each and every iota of erosion in our Freedom, we give those we Fight against a small Victory...
every time we stand Up, and deliberately Defy their pitiful attempts at Terror, every time we Laugh at their peurile threats, every time we enjoy our Liberty and Freedom and stand against the Fear that would sell either for a false assurance of non-existant Safety...
every time we do any of these things, we bitch slap the bastards and show them you cannot conquer to force a Free Person to cower
all you can do is kill a few of them
bad as that is, and as regrettable the horror...
our Nation was Founded by and Defended by a People who would rather die on their feet, than live on their knees
our Nation (i will NOT use the term "empire" it's an Insult to ANY Free Person) will survive and thrive as long as we NEVER forget that simple Fact
nuff said?
Excelsior!