Some teenagers came onto a pagan web site and asked if it was ok for Catholics like them to practice witchcraft. I was forced to tell them that in my understanding, the Catholic church wasn't amenable to them practicing witchcraft, no matter how trendy. Anticipating their dilema, I wrote something to help them make up their minds.
Some advantages of witchcraft over Catholicism:
Less rules, more Goddesses
We promote women
Not responsible for the Inquisition
Tired of waiting 2,000 years for Jesus to come back
Save wear and tear on knees
Alll of the magic, none of the guilt
Like to burn things
Really piss off parents without getting tattoo
-----and last but not least,
No Child Molesting Priests!
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - HW Saxton
In all fairness to Catholicism, it does
work well,in a syncretic sense,with many
traditional African religious beliefs.
Much to the chagrin of and more recently
the resignation of this fact to clergy
members the world over.
2 - Natalie Davis
Of course, that assumes that traditional African religious beliefs work well or are beneficial.
Then again, why be fair to Catholicism. It is rarely fair and I have 43 years of experience with it. (Thankfully, I escaped...)
3 - HW Saxton
Whether it works well or is beneficial
depends, of course, on the depth of the
followers belief.
Why be fair? Because I'm too tired and
groggy on pain meds to go on a good long
tirade of the myriad things that are so
very wrong with the R.C. Church at the
present. I quit following it's tenets as
soon as I was given a choice.
Hard to believe but Vodun was only just
recognized as a legitimate religion in
Haiti in 2003 despite the efforts of the
R.C. church against it.
4 - Dave Nalle
For those who want more Goddesses and don't want to embrace the bogus, made-up religion that is Wicca, Catholicism is one of the better options, what with the cult of the virgin and the marionites and the various sects that worship Mary as if she were a god.
Dave
5 - Bennett Dawson
Cerulean, You really need to write for Dave. Letterman, not our Dave.
:=]
6 - Nancy
As an apostasized Catholic myself, I am still constantly amazed at the sheer number of people who leave the religion, and also at the number who leave it angry, disgusted, or disillusioned. With any organization comprised of normally observant members, this would raise a red flag that something is very, very wrong. Ah, but wait: We ARE talking the Catholic church here, an institution infamous for 2 millenia for its arrogance, totalitarianism, and unhestitating use of brute strength or any other means to destroy and subdue its enemies. Witness the caring tactics of the Church against the kids who originally brought up the pedophilia charges. Witness the comments of the current loving pastor/ Pope that these people were all part of a 'conspiracy' against the Church! Ah, yes: "feed my lambs", indeed. Feed them what - arsenic? No one who values freedom, honesty, integrity, or intelligence buys into the Catholic church - or any other organized religion, for that matter. Organized Religion, and the Catholic church foremost among such concerns, is all about mind control, poitical power, and money. Only those unable or unwilling to think for themselves adhere to Organized Religion, and the Catholic church foremost among these. Please note I say "ORGANIZED Religion". Religion in and of itself seems to be innocuous, even benevolent, in general. But I have never seen an Organized Religion of any stripe which could say the same. All the ones I am familiar with are out for whatever they can get, by whatever means, including spiritual and emotional blackmail of members, potential members, and nonmembers alike. Unfortunately, I don't think there's any way to redress this situation, since it seems also to be human nature to flock to anyone who can or will dictate and exercise authority on behalf of the general public. J.C. did well to refer to believers as "sheep".
7 - DrPat
For those who want more Goddesses and don't want to embrace the bogus, made-up religion that is Wicca, Catholicism is one of the better options...
Dave, this argument totally ignores the crucial parameter in Cerulean's list: Really piss off parents without getting tattoo... Anyone with children who've been teens knows this is the real impetus to do anything.
8 - Mark Saleski
i thought all religions were 'made up'.
9 - Aaron, Duke De Mondo
certainly i've made up thousands. one of these days, man, one of em will take off.
10 - Dave Nalle
True enough, Mark. But most religions are made up based on some event or the teachings of some prophet or some long-standing belief system. Wicca was made up in the last 50 years by some chubby lesbians who actually believed the drivel in Margaret Murray's The Witch Cult in Western Europe and decided to base a religion on it.
My problem with Wicca is that it claims to be the survival of an ancient religion when the practices and beliefs which it claims to preserve are demonstrably the a-hystorical invention of a marginally crazy woman who basically made up an entire fictional history of witchcraft out of whole cloth. As a historian that offends me - a lot.
I have more respect for neo-pagans who admit they're recreating ancient religion rather than making bogus claims to be the inheritors of a religion which never actually existed.
Dave
11 - urthshu
My problem with Wicca is that it claims to be the survival of an ancient religion when the practices and beliefs which it claims to preserve are demonstrably the a-hystorical invention of a marginally crazy woman who basically made up an entire fictional history of witchcraft out of whole cloth. As a historian that offends me - a lot.
I've been saying similar for years now, for much the same reasons. Great to see someone else writing it.
12 - Mark Saleski
plenty of religions claim all sortsa stuff.
i think you just don't like chubby lesbians.
;-)
13 - Dave Nalle
Well, since they're lesbians they definitely don't want to have sex with me, so I guess they might as well be chubby if that makes them happy.
Dave
14 - DrPat
I recommend the Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology (ASIN 0517362457), sadly out of print, but often available at used bookstores. It makes a fine balance for Wiccan literature.
15 - Richard
I always pictured Dave as being chubby.
16 - Cerulean
Thanks to anyone who made a postive comment or liked my work! This sure got a lot of responses. I'm the type of person who responds to things a lot and I will need to read these comments over more thoroughly and respond more thoroughly, if I do, or write those never sent letters, when I have time to go through all the emotions involved. Yes, I am a sensitive smartass. Again, thanks to all who said anything positive. Writers live for that.
17 - Dave Nalle
Richard, the one thing I've never been described as is 'chubby'. Chubby implies cute and rounded, and I'm anything but cute and rotund. I'm more of a frankenstein monster type.
Dave
18 - Steve S
There are more than a few Wiccans in Carmel Valley, near where I live. There are forested and winding roads all through the hills and every now and then you'll come to a little stripmall of artist studios. They all live in the hills and sculpt, paint, write, etc. and sell everything from goth furniture to actual statues of Roman gods that are 10 feet tall and probably weigh a ton. They also turn redwood trees into actual tree houses as big as large apartments, VERY nicely crafted. Those sell for upwards of 100,000 each at least.
I don't know any of them on more than an acquaintance level, but many of the creative people out here are Wiccans and are always positive and have a sparkle in their eye. They're always happy. I don't know anything about different branches or subsets of Wiccanery. or is it Wiccianism?
19 - Natalie Davis
Wicca.
20 - Dave Nalle
I never said Wiccans were bad people or non-creative or evil or anything, Steve. They just believe in a religion which ranks just a bit too high on my bogus meter, though still well under scientology, which came from the same 'let's make up a religion' movement of the 1930s - thanks Mr. Crowley.
Dave
21 - Steve S
I was just offering my perspective on Wiccans within the thread, as well, rather than attempting to counter or debate anybody. There are all types of people everywhere, so there will be all types of Wiccans.
22 - Steve S
yes the 'let's make up a religion' movement of 1,800+ years ago was much better.
23 - HW Saxton
Dave,Mr.Crowley wasn't just playing some
"Let's make up a new religion" game.
What Crowley was following was directly
descended from the Magic Lodges of turn
of the century Europe and the teachings
of Eliphas Levi and the "Ordo Templis
Orientalis" and myriad other lodges in
France,Germany and Britain,chiefly.
What Levi and others were following was
handed down from the Middle Ages which
was handed down from the ancient magical
teachings of the Egyptians,the Sumerians
the Babylonians and on and on.Maybe they
got their knowledge from Chutulu and the
"ancient ones" or some such shit.
Crowley put his own demented twist onto
things already known. But regardless of
this, he was not by any means,inventing
anything new.
24 - Richard
Imagine no religion
25 - Dave Nalle
I'm afraid you've been suckered, HW. Cryptohistory was one of my specialties in grad school.
There's a discontinuity in Crowley's history as well. Actually several. First, the groups of the late 19th century like the OTO and the Ancient Order of Hibernia can't actually trace documentable historical antecedents back before the start of the 18th century. The best they can do is establish a tenuous connection to St. Germaine and the Freemasons. But the Freemasons, despite their claims, cannot trace their own ancestry back even as far as the Knights Templar - who were all killed anyway - and in turn the Knights Templars' claims to be descended from the Roman mystery cults is completely unsupportable. And in fact, the Cult of Hermes Trismegistos' claim to any relationship with the already long extinct priesthood of Thoth was almost certianly entirely bogus.
The only shared legacy of all of these organizations is that they benefited fromt he trappings of mystery and having an ancient legacy, so they borrowed the concept and the very mantle of the similar groups which had gone before. But again, nothing was handed down generation to generation - that's just self-serving fantasy.
As for Crowley himself, he was cast out by the mystics of the Victorian era because he departed so radically from their relatively harmless philosophicall approach to magic. Crowley's complete reformulation of their beliefs into his version of philosophical Satanism was an entirely new religion unto itself. This is why Waite and the other mystics and crypto-druids disowned him - they also weren't big fans of the flimflammery and sex magic. And, of course, Hubbard based Scientology on Crowley's philosophy and Wicca was formed to a large extent in reaction against Crowley's anthro-centric viewpoint.
Dave