This week, during a speech before an audience at the Brookings Institution, Ted Kennedy made the claim that "Iraq is George Bush's Vietnam." Besides the fact that this comparison seems to be the tactic of the month for Democrats, the question still remains whether or not this is a valid claim.
Is there a comparison between Vietnam and Iraq? Ultimately I believe there is, but its not what most people think. Rather than Iraq being a "Vietnam" for Bush, as Kennedy claims, it is really more accurate to say that Iraq was President Clinton's Vietnam.
Why? Because, during President Clinton's time in office, the US was not able to demonstrate the political will to do what was necessary in dealing with Iraq. President Clinton was not interested in any conflict which could generate American casualties, as was demonstrated by the pullout ordered by President Clinton after Mogadishu. Unfortunately, by the end of 1998, our enemies believed that killing Americans was the way to get us to run.
During President Clinton's two terms served, from 1992 through 2000, our policy in regards to Iraq was containment, not confrontation. This was a tactic which even former Presidential candidate Wesley Clark, a man who served under Clinton and an outspoken critic of the Iraq War, admitted was failing.
In Vietnam, our mission was also one of containment. We were there to keep the North from overrunning the South, but we were never allowed to invade the North and finish the job. Lacking the political will meant that it was just a matter of time before the North could claim victory.
Vietnam was a manufactured quagmire, and so was Iraq before President Bush came into office. I say "manufactured" because it was not like the quagmire that Europe found itself in during WWI, with soldiers dug in and massive deaths resulting from foolish charges on enemy lines.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Mark Saleski
further proof that every problem on the planet is bill clinton's fault.
2 - David Flanagan
further proof that every problem on the planet is bill clinton's fault.
No, but in a finger-pointing society, which we seem to have become, one must expect to have fingers pointed back. You can't declare open season on President Bush and then declare everyone else off limits.
Sorry, but it's a lame argument.
David
3 - Mark Saleski
we've been over this territory before. two wrongs don't make a right...and in this case the fingers pointed back at clinton, and complaints about them, have absolutely nothing to do with 'open season' being declared on bush.
not in my mind anyway.
4 - Andrew
It's pretty convoluted thinking to imply that starting a bloody war is "good" (Bush) while keeping the country out of war is somehow irresponsible (Clinton).
By now it has been shown that there were no weapons of mass destruction. The whole WMD issue and the "nuclear threat" intimated by Bush was bogus at worst and bad intelligence/very bad judgement at best. Most of the world was counseling patience, and now they can say "We told you so."
But... what can you expect when someone like Bush Jr. is elected president. "Mission Accomplished"? Indeed !
5 - boomcrashbaby
Anything Ted Kennedy says is politically motivated, but Ted Kennedy, while I think he is a very effective politician, does not speak for most moderates or liberals.
To be fair, let's just remind everybody that creating an independent counsel to go after Clinton, but setting that counsel to 'expire' upon the end of his administration and deciding to not renew it, upon finding out the Supreme Court was going to hand the presidential office to their pal, was surely NOT based in political motivation.
6 - David Flanagan
Well, Chamberlain kept Europe out of war with Germany, was that good? Was was the death toll of that war? Upwards of 20 million? There are sins of omission and sins of commission.
As for the "bad intelligence," and the missing WMDs, we used and promoted the same evidence that President Clinton did in December of 1998 just prior to launching a missle strike on Iraq. Clinton, Daschle, Kerry, Gephardt, etc, were all crowing over "the Iraq threat." And it was President Clinton who made our official Iraq policy one of regime change.
It's easy to critisize from your armchair, not so easy when you are responsible for the welfare of the entire country.
David
7 - Ms. Tek
Iraq was Clinton's Vietnam, not Bush's.
I know I shouldn't laugh but this IS becoming really funny.
Seriously, every post is about Bill Clinton and if it isn't, then he still comes up anyway.
Billy must get awfully tired running around in you mind all the time!
8 - Andrew
Sorry.
I meant to say "what can you expect when someone like Bush Jr. is appointed president" in my comment above.
We know he wasn't "elected."
9 - David Flanagan
We know he wasn't "elected."
Who is we kimosabi?
David
10 - Craig Lyndall
The elected argument might be the most boring, tired, unnecessary and ignorant arguments out there. It was probably witty the first time.
If you are arguing that there was something fixed in Florida, ok. If you are commenting on the popular vote, then please go look up the electoral college.
If you would like to discuss the needs for the electoral college, we can get into that too. Simply saying that Bush "wasn't elected" is without teeth.
11 - boomcrashbaby
The elected argument might be the most boring, tired, unnecessary and ignorant arguments out there. It was probably witty the first time.
Whether it is boring, tired, unnecessary or ignorant, nevertheless, it is a sentiment held by millions.
For the most part my disillusionment came with both sides fighting to determine which votes to recount and which votes to not recount. How democratic. My disillusionment was further enhanced by the fact that the whole state at issue was Jeb Bush's. Can't get more non-partisan than that. And my disillusionment was sealed with the Supreme Court further disregarding the will of the people and choosing which votes to consider and which to toss.
Before that election, my family was Republican, and my own household was moderate with conservative leanings. Ever since then though, I have been able to see nothing but unethical administrative practices that go entirely against the platform that was campaigned, whether it is the dissolution of the separation of church and state, or the biggest deficit in American history (this from a party that runs on the platform of smaller government) to SCOTUS judges going hunting with case defendants, etc. ad nauseum.
Disregard it as tired, if you want. It is the sentiment of millions.
12 - Craig Lyndall
I understand it is held by millions. I am saying that it isn't meaningful. It is part of a company line. I am undecided as to who I am going to vote for this election. I am traditionally republican, but I am full of criticisms of George Bush.
The election thing is just part of the left-wing, liberal script and not meaningful like the things you mentioned, like the seperation of Church and State and the deficit, etc. I am not saying you shouldn't criticize Bush. I am saying that this particular argument is as meaningless as the right-wingers trying to deflect blame to Clinton.
13 - boomcrashbaby
if millions of people hold a sentiment, how can it be meaningless? What is the definition of meaningful, except that which means something to people?
14 - Craig Lyndall
I can find 1000 people who think Elvis is still alive.
15 - Eric Olsen
Similarly to Craig, i don't know yet who i am going to vote for and I have many issues with Bush, but the "unelected" argument IS meaningless: we work with a system, via that system we arrrived at a winner, end of story - the winner is the president. You can't reject the result because you don't like the result. If I could do that I would reject both the '95 and '97 World Series results.
16 - boomcrashbaby
okay, that's a good point but I don't think it's a fair analogy unless Elvis was leading the country. Politics and administrations affect peoples lives, and well, I guess Elvis could too but when someone says something is meaningless, I just can't read any more into it than it is meaningless to that person.
17 - JR
I can find 1000 people who think Elvis is still alive.
Yeah, and do you wanna tell those people their sentiment is meaningless?
18 - boomcrashbaby
we work with a system, via that system we arrrived at a winner
The whole point of my posts is that millions don't agree with that statement, not just because who they wanted didn't win.
19 - Craig Lyndall
"The whole point of my posts is that millions don't agree with that statement, not just because who they wanted didn't win."
It is ONLY because they are unhappy their guy didn't win.
Like I said previously though, if you want to discuss the need for the electoral college, we can discuss that. But if you want to use the election results as a way to bash Bush, then it has no use to me as an undecided voter.
20 - boomcrashbaby
It is ONLY because they are unhappy their guy didn't win.
oh, and here for 4 years, I thought I was disgruntled at corruption. Thank you for letting me know I'm just a sore loser.
21 - Shark
Iraq = Quagmire
Bush wasn't elected -vs- "It's the system, get over it" = Quagmire
~ NEXT!
22 - Jim Carruthers
This is a rather huge slice of rationalization pie, but a couple of observations, like Vietnam, the aggression against Iraq was based on a contrivance (Gulf of Tonkin) which however has taken less time to be exposed as a lie.
The big difference is that while in Vietnam, the US was propping up a corrupt puppet government and failed, in Iraq, the US is trying to install a corrupt puppet government and seems to be failing.
Now if only Haiti had oil, they'd have it made.
Oh, and Rwanda called and said on the 10th anniversary, thanks for nothing.
23 - Mac Diva
Two words: Gross oversimplification. Starting with the reasons the U.S. was in Vietnam. A neo-colonial, imperialistic war is presented as something it was not. I don't have time to say more at this point. But, there are other commenters on the thread who will break it down for you, Fatuous Flanagan.
As for the attack on Clinton, TBE from FF. (To Be Expected.)
24 - Joe
Alliteration and acronyms, two things the internet doesn't have enough of.
25 - Shark
"Fatuous Flanagan"
Day Two of the new House Rules.