Yesterday, I received an email from the American Family Association. I know my opinion is going to upset the liberal readers, but so be it. They have a right to their opinion and I have a right to mine. That's what makes America great. The email was about a situation that happened recently within the Washington Nationals Baseball organization as reported in the Washington Post. Apparently, the Washington Nationals professional baseball club has suspended a volunteer chaplain and rebuked a baseball player because they hold religious beliefs that are religiously incorrect.
Volunteer chaplain Joe Moeller and outfielder Ryan Church were having a conversation concerning Christianity. Church asked Moeller a question about Jesus and salvation. "I said, like, Jewish people, they don't believe in Jesus. Does that mean they're doomed?" Church asked.
Volunteer chaplain Moeller simply nodded his head in agreement. For his "religiously incorrect" thinking even if it was simply a nod of the head Moeller was suspended.
Religiously incorrect? Since when has America had only one religion? Last time I looked, we had religious diversity in this country. Some religions are going to say the others are wrong. What makes this worse is that this was a private conversation between a Christian and a Christian minister discussing basic tenets of the Christian faith. Moeller did not get in front of the entire team and say that Jews are going to go to hell. The fact is that the Christian faith teaches there is only one way to heaven, through Jesus Christ. Faith in Him is a free choice and all Moeller did was nod his head in a private conversation between him and Church.
Moeller should never have been suspended nor Church rebuked. To do such a thing is to claim there is only one religion and it's not Christianity. I find such actions and silent statements abhorrent. The action taken by the Nationals baseball team would have been different if it had been a statement made to the entire team and that the team members had no choice whether or not to attend the "religious service." However, that was not the case; instead, as I have already stated, it was a private conversation between two people.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Lisa McKay
Moeller did not get in front of the entire team and say that Jews are going to go to hell.
But apparently Church did say so on the front page of the Washington Post:
You seem to have left out half the story, Kansasman. I was wondering how a supposedly private conversation between two men led to this, but apparently the "private" conversation was made very public by one of the parties.
2 - Victor Plenty
There are no "thought police" in this incident. A privately owned organization has freely chosen to distance itself from a narrow extremist ideology, without any coercion from the police or any other government agency.
3 - Warren
The essence of Christianity is Christ as "The Way, The Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father but by Me." (quoting the source, there). The alternatives were to tell the truth and get fired, or lie.
I think in the same situation, I'd have used a bit more tact. Something like "Without Christ, everyone's in the same boat. We're all doomed," or words to that effect -- it would have been true without focusing on one particular group of people. If the Nationals don't want Christians to be chaplains, or at least Christians who take their sacred scriptures seriously, then they need to screen the applicants more carefully.
Victor's right, though. The team has the right to fire whoever they want, and hire whoever they want.
4 - Victor Plenty
The essence of Christianity is love for one's fellow human beings, inspired by God's for all of us. The narrow extremist habit of constantly saying everyone will go to hell if they are theologically incorrect is not the essence of Christianity, but a distortion of Christianity.
5 - Warren
"The narrow extremist habit of constantly saying everyone will go to hell if they are theologically incorrect is not the essence of Christianity, but a distortion of Christianity."
Then the first distortion occurred in 35AD when Peter spoke at Pentecost. His message was repent. Of course, so was Christ's. He focused on the fact that everyone needed to repent -- including the most religious of us all. Love for fellow human beings doesn't seem consistant with Christ's statement that the Pharisees were "whitened tombs."
6 - Victor Plenty
Christ made love a commandment. How soon we forget.
7 - The Fifth Dentist
Kansasman: Chaplain Moeller is free to say and preach whatever he wants. Nobody's stopping him. The Washington Nationals are also free to kick Moeller's ass out of the clubhouse when he says something they don't like. The Nationals are a private organization with their own religious views which apparently don't include condemning their jewish fans in Bethesda to hell. Moreover, as I understand it the Catholic church does not take the position that jews don't go to heaven. So it seems to me that if you take a contrary position essentially you're calling the pope a liar because he's getting the word directly from god himself. Is that what you're doing? Because if you are you might be the one going to hell. Brother.
8 - Warren
Christ also made exclusivity statements, one of which I quoted in my first comment. Looks like you forget even sooner, Victor.
9 - The Fifth Dentist
Warren: Just a heads up. I don't know if you're aware of it or not but Jesus Christ was himself a jew and when I spoke to him this morning he said "it particularly pisses me off whe some fucking hick with no understanding of judaism disses my people."
10 - Victor Plenty
Christ said things which extremists interpret as exclusivity statements, Warren. Not being an extremist myself, I choose to honor the message of love which Christ himself identified as the center of his good news.
11 - The Fifth Dentist
Way to go Victor. Christ just told me that you're definitely in. He said these other two cocksuckers are on pretty shakey ground if they don't clean up their act. (Sorry about the "cocksuckers" but those were his exact words.)
12 - alethinos
Congrats Victor, you're "in"! As for thought police... The problem Kansas boy is that such "noddings" or "casual statements" have lead in the past to persecutions of unimaginable horror. No matter your views on Christ NO ONE BUT HE has the RIGHT to judge others - certainly not his depressingly flawed and myopic followers.
13 - Victor Plenty
"Will no one rid me of this ex-girlfriend?"
14 - Warren
Victor,
How DO you understand "I am the Way ... no man comes to the father but by me?" Sounds pretty exclusive no matter how you squint. You don't have to believe him, but he said it.
I'm perfectly aware Christ was a practicing Jew. So were the first Christians -- they pretty much hung out at the synagogues and guess what -- THEY PREACHED CHRIST THERE. The Romans considered Christianity a sect of Judaism for decades, until they were convinced otherwise.
15 - Victor Plenty
I understand it differently than you do, obviously. If I thought you sought to understand views different from your own, I might even explain why. But clearly you seek no understanding, and only ask the question rhetorically, on the path to claiming yet again that your own personal understanding is the sole key to salvation from eternal fire.
16 - The Fifth Dentist
I have a make believe happy land and nobody is allowed in but me and the other members of my circle-jerk club. It's 2005 grow the fuck up.
17 - Rich Powers
I agree with Victor: this is a private organization making a perfectly legal decision. They have every right to do it.
Debating the ethical principles of this situation doesn't accomplish much because it exists outside the public sphere. The best anyone can do is boycott the team if they disagree with this firing.
18 - Les Slater
I am wary of private institutions that make judgments as to what religions are Kosher.
Not that I necessarily support any of the National’s policies, but feel they were in a tough position and made a reasonable choice. I would not only say they had a right to do this but also an obligation.
19 - Kansasman
actually the Supreme Court has said that companies and "non-religious" organizations can not discriminate against any religion...also there is a thing called freedom of religion.
victor-
Love includes telling those we love the truth. I agree there has benn many through out history that has made God's inclusivness into a thing of hate, which is sad. the best example: one only has to look back at the Catholic Churches and the Crusades of 11-14 centuries.
The problem with telling the truth is that some people are offended because they don't want to hear that what they are doing is wrong, so we have to figure out a way to balence the two.
P. S. God is spelled with a capital "G" unless you aren't talking about the God of gods.
20 - Kansasman
Victor -
to clarify my last statement to you (post 19) to fire someone based on religion is unconstitutional, so according to the Supreme Court they would not have a right to dismiss him for that, if he was paid...but he was a volunteer.
21 - Warren
"If I thought you sought to understand views different from your own, I might even explain why. But clearly you seek no understanding, and only ask the question rhetorically, on the path to claiming yet again that your own personal understanding is the sole key to salvation from eternal fire."
Victor, I've dedicated most of my adult life to understanding views different from my own. I've read and studied Judaism, Islam, Hinduism ... I've looked at each on its own merits. This statement is a great way to completely dodge asking the question. I guess the discussion is over, since you've got no interest in explaining.
Ironically, I started off by agreeing with you -- the Nationals are a private organization, and are allowed to hire and fire whoever they want for whatever reason they want. I'd never want that to change.
Also ironically, I've never said what the chaplain did was correct. I've only said that it is consistant with the orthodox teachings of Christianity since the first century AD (CE, if you prefer).
5D -- I'll grow up as soon as you do. You are a walking billboard for intolerance, and aren't a lot different from those who you disagree with.
22 - The Fifth Dentist
Warren: First of all, don't you find it a tad hypocritical to demand tolerance for virulently intolerant religious beliefs? Secondly, it really doesn't matter to me what has been taught since the first century AD. Each individual has to decide for him or herself what to believe. Even if dangerous hate-filled arrogant bullshit has been taught since the beginning of time one still retains the ability to reject it. And if you start espousing something which says that my parents, grandparents and children will all rot in hell for eternity, I reserve the right to ridicule you. Is that intolerance? Well yes I guess in a sense it is. But it's the good kind of intolerance. It's intolerance for the kind of stupidity that will ultimately destroy us all. The difference between me and those on the other side is that I don't claim to speak on behalf of god. All I'm asking is that you and those fucks you defend will stop claiming that ability.
23 - MT
We are all Jews. If you believe in Christ you are a Jew because he was a Jew.
24 - Pete Blackwell
Yeah, if he got suspended for his remarks in the Post, then fine. No one expects the chaplain to have religiously pc thoughts, but he doesn't have to broadcast his hate to the whole country. Yes, religious orthodoxy breeds hate. Surprise!
What the hell do the Nationals have a chaplain for, anyway? They're a freaking baseball team. Geesh.
25 - Warren
FD -- I simply find it ironic that people who advocate tolerance are often the most intolerant people around when it comes to beliefs tha they hold dear. They are no better than anyone else. I am told regularly that I'm intolerant -- I'm just waiting for someone to lead by example. But I won't hold my breath -- human beings are by very nature intolerant of the ideas of others.
I really don't care what you think of Christianity. If you examine history, you'll find out that Christianity's overall influence on society has been positive -- even after you take into consideration the idiots who claim the name but not the beliefs. My only point was that the chaplain was acting in a way that is consistant with his faith, and that if the Nationals don't want someone to do that they need to hire accordingly.